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Maybe this is just my ignorance about how business / marketing works in Korea, but maybe there is a reason Korean teams oftentimes struggle to find money and sponsorship. Forgive me if I'm totally off, maybe someone more knowledgeable can post some insight?
What are ways to quantify your team's exposure / reach / etc? There are several metrics that pretty easily come to mind:
- twitter...
- facebook
- website traffic
- stream statistics
If I'm a sponsor, these are numbers that I can see and gauge how much exposure I can get, and accordingly, how much money in sponsorship I should give. There are obviously other variables involved; I.E. how good of a sales pitch you offer (I.E. why teams like EG (who have a dedicated and REALLY good sales guy, Scoots) are much more successful at getting new sponsors and bigger deals than other comparable teams like Fnatic, Mouz, Dignitas, etc), personal connections, and some other factors, such as having a player who won a world championship... but the above metrics are the most objective and easily quantifiable. Sponsors care about that, if I'm not mistaken.
So where am I going with this?
Outside of Prime (seems to be a quite popular online store) and oGs... almost all of the Korean teams don't seem to have popular or regularly updated websites, and little social media presence. Do companies in Korea not care about these things? Could this not explain why Korean teams find it hard to find consistent sponsorship?
Take Startale for example (http://startale.co.kr/). Their last news post was in February? Their facebook has ~550 fans, with only sporadic updates (Player X is streaming!).
Consider a foreign team... Quantic: over 5,000 twitter followers, ~2,500 facebook fans, and a much better looking website that actually makes it seem like they do things.
If I'm a company, who would I rather sponsor? Companies don't really know or care that Startale has Bomber, July, Squirtle, and Ace (random 4 players), who are much better and more acclaimed than Naniwa, SaSe, Flo, and iNkA (random 4 players from quantic). The players play in the same tournaments, too. If I'm writing a sponsor proposal, I would be writing, "my team played in X event that had XXX,XXX,XXX stream views over the weekend... check out that awesome exposure." Throw in a few pictures of your player on the main stage... and for most purposes, it's the same thing whether you got 20th place or 2nd.
The only way a sponsor would be able to tell that Startale's players are better is if the team had a dedicated sales guy whose sole job was to convince sponsors of just that. But really, it comes down to metrics -- Startale (again.. I"m just using them as an example) doesn't have the numbers to put in a proposal that can really turn some heads.
With the prevalence of streaming, this IS admittedly getting a bit better for them, they can compile a list of their players' streams, who all have pretty good numbers. That helps, but is it enough?
If this is the case, then why is it that Korean teams seem to have such a lackluster web and social media presence? Do Korean companies not follow the same methods as non-Korean companies?Are there other factors a Korean company looks at that I'm totally ignoring?
I'm envisioning a Korean team who: a) has a really well-designed website, with community engaging features: maybe they post unique footage of their team house (note how all the team house coverage is NOT done by the actual teams themselves, but from foreigners who go there... aka, those guys are the ones who are actually benefiting from the views and exposure), let fans get to know their players, etc. b) a team who has a very active and engaging social media presence. If a Korean team had 50,000 facebook fans, pulled in a few million viewers per month to its site (which is totally possible if they produce unique content, which is totally possible because of the team houses), and had a nice facebook/twitter, AND their players are winning major events: why would they not be able to grab sponsors? Am I missing something?
There has to be reasons why Korean teams don't seem to be making more efforts in these departments. Is it because running the houses costs so much and takes so much manpower that they don't have time or money to have good websites, writing staff, and a social media presence? I guess that argument makes sense. The next thing I wonder then, is if these Korean teams constantly gripe about not having money, and make desperation partnerships with foreign teams just for the ability to send their players to some events... why don't they focus more on the things that can help them to make money?
These are just my random thoughts... FXOBoss, or someone who knows more about this... please enlighten! I'm sure Scoots / Alex Garfield would probably have some answers too. I'm actually really curious about this.
  
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Oh, I forgot to add: this really applies to NEW sponsors. I think this will become less of an issue as sponsors get more immersed into the game. For example... if a sponsor DID follow tournaments, and clearly recognized that value of Bomber, July, etc... over some dudes from a foreign team, he might be more inclined to push his company's marketing budget to that Korean team.
However, it seems like a lot of sponsors (outside of the typical gaming peripheral companies who seem to be very well immersed into the community) are relatively new / ignorant about the actual scene (I don't mean ignorant in a bad way.. but more like, naive?)
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First reason I can think of is the popularity of Brood War over SC2 in term of attracting sponsors.
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On December 26 2011 15:58 baoluvboa wrote:
First reason I can think of is the popularity of Brood War over SC2 in term of attracting sponsors.
And BINGO was his name'o.
But when/if some of these BW teams start having BW & SC2 under one team name more money will probably come into the Korean SC2 teams. Though that may end up forcing some of the existing teams to consolidate or merge to continue their existence.
edit: I personally can't wait for a big name NA non tech sponsor to attach to an esports event or team. "Dicks Sporting Goods is proud to present <xyz tournament>" Can't wait to see the mechanical keyboards hanging like baseball gloves on a giant wall!
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It has little to do with marketing, and a lot to due with the fan base just not being interested in sc2. I don't get what's so hard to understand. BW is still very big, and SC2 side by side in every aspect is just not as interesting.
I don't mean to offend sc2, but it's like the XFL. Flashier, seemingly newer, but it's just a poorly redone hash with better graphics. It's made up of seemingly "failed" pro gamers, and the original game has all the money, players, and history to make it a much bigger and more attractive game.
If you're a sponsor for a big corporation in korea, WHY would you ever sponsor a SC2 team over a SC1 team that gets much, much more coverage? I think korea knows that the foreign scene has a majority of the fanbase right now, and that's why they're trying to reach out overseas to gain fans/sponsors/money.
PS: The teams DO do outreach stuff. Perhaps even more than foreign teams in some ways. You just haven't looked or heard of them because you don't live in korea.
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As any kpop follower would know, we tend to see alot of sponsors endorsing products through kpop idols. So i guess esports in korea is in competition with kpop (a much stronger industry than esports).
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I sometimes feel that the SC2 teams feel inadequate in comparison to the BW teams and thus "turtle," and sort of accept this little brother status that they have placed upon themselves. Now to be clear, BW teams are currently of much higher quality and value than SC2 teams. That said, everything you wrote is almost purely common sense/basic business thinking, things the managers of these teams MUST understand. Clearly, there is some kind of disconnect, either in yours and my understanding of how things work in Korea, or on the part of the teams in how they actually go about becoming "valuable" to sponsors. It's unfortunate that a team like ST with several amazing players (several in the top 20) can be so obscure.
Great post Xeris
Edit: To clarify, there ARE SC2 teams in Korea whom do very well for themselves, but there are teams with elite talent who do equally poorly in comparison to a SlayerS.
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Why does it have to be a Korean company, though... For example. Intel, MSI, Steelseries, etc. Is it not more valuable to them to sponsor a Korean team (the Koreans are going to every foreign event anyway). It's not just about Korea... its their lack of ability (seemingly) to get ANY kind of sponsor.
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On December 26 2011 15:52 Xeris wrote:
I'm envisioning a Korean team who: a) has a really well-designed website, with community engaging features: maybe they post unique footage of their team house (note how all the team house coverage is NOT done by the actual teams themselves, but from foreigners who go there... aka, those guys are the ones who are actually benefiting from the views and exposure), let fans get to know their players, etc. b) a team who has a very active and engaging social media presence. If a Korean team had 50,000 facebook fans, pulled in a few million viewers per month to its site (which is totally possible if they produce unique content, which is totally possible because of the team houses), and had a nice facebook/twitter, AND their players are winning major events: why would they not be able to grab sponsors? Am I missing something?
You're basically describing SlayerS. Jessica knows her stuff.
My current theory is that the current teams are ran by has-been BW coaches not used to doing these business/social media stuff.
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On December 26 2011 16:05 UndoneJin wrote:
I sometimes feel that the SC2 teams feel inadequate in comparison to the BW teams and thus "turtle," and sort of accept this little brother status that they have placed upon themselves. Now to be clear, BW teams are currently of much higher quality and value than SC2 teams. That said, everything you wrote is almost purely common sense/basic business thinking, things the managers of these teams MUST understand. Clearly, there is some kind of disconnect, either in yours and my understanding of how things work in Korea, or on the part of the teams in how they actually go about becoming "valuable" to sponsors. It's unfortunate that a team like ST with several amazing players (several in the top 20) can be so obscure.
Great post Xeris
Right, this is exactly my point. It seems like these things are very logical... but Korean teams still don't really seem to do them or market themselves in the way I think is standard. This makes me wonder: does business work differently in Korea? What other reason is there? I don't know the answer... hoping someone can help!
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On December 26 2011 16:06 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2011 15:52 Xeris wrote:
I'm envisioning a Korean team who: a) has a really well-designed website, with community engaging features: maybe they post unique footage of their team house (note how all the team house coverage is NOT done by the actual teams themselves, but from foreigners who go there... aka, those guys are the ones who are actually benefiting from the views and exposure), let fans get to know their players, etc. b) a team who has a very active and engaging social media presence. If a Korean team had 50,000 facebook fans, pulled in a few million viewers per month to its site (which is totally possible if they produce unique content, which is totally possible because of the team houses), and had a nice facebook/twitter, AND their players are winning major events: why would they not be able to grab sponsors? Am I missing something?
You're basically describing SlayerS. Jessica knows her stuff. My current theory is that the current teams are ran by has-been BW coaches not used to doing these business/social media stuff.
You're right.. I totally forgot SlayerS... they seem to be doing quite well for themselves OO! Jessica is really awesome, especially after meeting her a few times at MLGs and NASL!
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Again, I could just be totally ignorant about how these things work T_T
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The answer is most Korean team managers are TOP NOTCH managers and not so much great at business. It's the reason Jessica is looked at as a bit demanding from a lot of Koreans, she is pretty much the only manager that knows how to run a business.
Imagine is Boxer was the one doing all the coaching and the marketing and PR and etc..... SlayerS would still be well off (because of Boxer) but I seriously doubt they would be doing as well as they have without her.
Aside for SlayerS and FXO I can't think one Korean team that has a proper person handling that stuff. They are really stubborn too, I contacted all the teams months ago about a way to get a lot of their gear to NA at a great profit to them and they all just made up unrealistic numbers that "someone else offered". I had one tell me they had an offer for $30k a month and they were starting in a week. That team STILL has no offer, no major sponsors, and their gear is STILL not available (or has no apparent plans).
You have a bunch of player managers handling marketing and shit and refuse any help from the outside. Also an inflated sense of value from the coL/MvP (and oGs/SK) thing is pretty strong in Korea atm, and everyone thinks they are worth a bazillion dollars for being Korean.
That's my 2 cents.
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On December 26 2011 16:03 Itsmedudeman wrote:
It has little to do with marketing, and a lot to due with the fan base just not being interested in sc2. I don't get what's so hard to understand. BW is still very big, and SC2 side by side in every aspect is just not as interesting.
I don't mean to offend sc2, but it's like the XFL. Flashier, seemingly newer, but it's just a poorly redone hash with better graphics. It's made up of seemingly "failed" pro gamers, and the original game has all the money, players, and history to make it a much bigger and more attractive game.
If you're a sponsor for a big corporation in korea, WHY would you ever sponsor a SC2 team over a SC1 team that gets much, much more coverage? I think korea knows that the foreign scene has a majority of the fanbase right now, and that's why they're trying to reach out overseas to gain fans/sponsors/money.
PS: The teams DO do outreach stuff. Perhaps even more than foreign teams in some ways. You just haven't looked or heard of them because you don't live in korea.
This is not a BW vs SC2 issue. This is about why SC2 Korean teams fair poorly business-wise than SC2 Foreigner teams. It got to the point where half the korean teams are now financially dependent on Foreigner teams. The one that is most financially sound (and performed substantially better on field) is the one sold off to a foreign held company (FXO).
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On December 26 2011 16:06 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2011 15:52 Xeris wrote:
I'm envisioning a Korean team who: a) has a really well-designed website, with community engaging features: maybe they post unique footage of their team house (note how all the team house coverage is NOT done by the actual teams themselves, but from foreigners who go there... aka, those guys are the ones who are actually benefiting from the views and exposure), let fans get to know their players, etc. b) a team who has a very active and engaging social media presence. If a Korean team had 50,000 facebook fans, pulled in a few million viewers per month to its site (which is totally possible if they produce unique content, which is totally possible because of the team houses), and had a nice facebook/twitter, AND their players are winning major events: why would they not be able to grab sponsors? Am I missing something?
You're basically describing SlayerS. Jessica knows her stuff. My current theory is that the current teams are ran by has-been BW coaches not used to doing these business/social media stuff.
You don't think that perhaps maybe SlayerS success in the marketing area has a lot to do with you know.. Boxer? The greatest esports figure in history by quite a margin?
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On December 26 2011 16:06 Xeris wrote:
Why does it have to be a Korean company, though... For example. Intel, MSI, Steelseries, etc. Is it not more valuable to them to sponsor a Korean team (the Koreans are going to every foreign event anyway). It's not just about Korea... its their lack of ability (seemingly) to get ANY kind of sponsor.
Intel has snsd. Apart from the big companies, marketing strategies are hardly used beyond simple advertising of their product, so they dont feel that a sponsor will help their business much, rather it will be a waste of time and money.
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I think we are also forgetting the language barrier. The good things about the urrent foreign sponsors of sc2 teams (being Zowie (ST) intel and Razer (SlayerS) Is that they are esports focused and also the teams had/have people who speak english and are able to communicate to sponsors.
The only other sc2 team with major sponsors is TSL which all their sponsors have Korean divisions. TSL also has a reliable name, Coach Lee is a known figure in bw so he is a easy and safe choice for sponsors.
I just woke up and am extremely tired. So sorry if this seems vague. just wanted to make the point though that maybe the reason Korean teams don't get foreign sponsors is simply because they lack the avenue of communication.
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i'm thinking that they're sponsored by korean-only companies and trying to advertise outside of korea is just a waste of time/money
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On December 26 2011 16:12 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2011 16:03 Itsmedudeman wrote:
It has little to do with marketing, and a lot to due with the fan base just not being interested in sc2. I don't get what's so hard to understand. BW is still very big, and SC2 side by side in every aspect is just not as interesting.
I don't mean to offend sc2, but it's like the XFL. Flashier, seemingly newer, but it's just a poorly redone hash with better graphics. It's made up of seemingly "failed" pro gamers, and the original game has all the money, players, and history to make it a much bigger and more attractive game.
If you're a sponsor for a big corporation in korea, WHY would you ever sponsor a SC2 team over a SC1 team that gets much, much more coverage? I think korea knows that the foreign scene has a majority of the fanbase right now, and that's why they're trying to reach out overseas to gain fans/sponsors/money.
PS: The teams DO do outreach stuff. Perhaps even more than foreign teams in some ways. You just haven't looked or heard of them because you don't live in korea. This is not a BW vs SC2 issue. This is about why SC2 Korean teams fair poorly business-wise than SC2 Foreigner teams. It got to the point where half the korean teams are now financially dependent on Foreigner teams. The one that is most financially sound (and performed substantially better on field) is the one sold off to a foreign held company (FXO).
To me, this doesn't make any sense. First of all, can we both agree that the target market is the foreign scene? The korean scene is just too small to gain good sponsors from. So of course since the foreign scene has most of the audience/market, which teams are going to fare better? The korean ones or the foreign ones? Let's face it, the reason certain foreign players are more popular isn't because of marketing, it's because they're foreign, and can speak english, plain and simple.
Also, I think the korean teams are just realizing this, that the fanbase is much larger outside korea, and that's why they're reaching out more and more often. They mention foreign fans in interviews, try to attend outside tournaments as much as possible, and now even stream on TL daily. I think this began to happen gradually after MLG Columbus, and then a lot more after Blizzcon.
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On December 26 2011 16:18 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2011 16:12 Primadog wrote:On December 26 2011 16:03 Itsmedudeman wrote:
It has little to do with marketing, and a lot to due with the fan base just not being interested in sc2. I don't get what's so hard to understand. BW is still very big, and SC2 side by side in every aspect is just not as interesting.
I don't mean to offend sc2, but it's like the XFL. Flashier, seemingly newer, but it's just a poorly redone hash with better graphics. It's made up of seemingly "failed" pro gamers, and the original game has all the money, players, and history to make it a much bigger and more attractive game.
If you're a sponsor for a big corporation in korea, WHY would you ever sponsor a SC2 team over a SC1 team that gets much, much more coverage? I think korea knows that the foreign scene has a majority of the fanbase right now, and that's why they're trying to reach out overseas to gain fans/sponsors/money.
PS: The teams DO do outreach stuff. Perhaps even more than foreign teams in some ways. You just haven't looked or heard of them because you don't live in korea. This is not a BW vs SC2 issue. This is about why SC2 Korean teams fair poorly business-wise than SC2 Foreigner teams. It got to the point where half the korean teams are now financially dependent on Foreigner teams. The one that is most financially sound (and performed substantially better on field) is the one sold off to a foreign held company (FXO). To me, this doesn't make any sense. First of all, can we both agree that the target market is the foreign scene? The korean scene is just too small to gain good sponsors from. So of course since the foreign scene has most of the audience/market, which teams are going to fare better? The korean ones or the foreign ones? Let's face it, the reason certain foreign players are more popular isn't because of marketing, it's because they're foreign, and can speak english, plain and simple.
I don't necessarily agree with you because in order for "Korean" SC2 teams to stay viable, they have to have impact IN Korea. It's up to them to attract viewers and fans, you are sort of pushing the same idea that some of these teams themselves have, essentially "We can't compete so don't even try."
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EPT
