EPT+ Show Spoiler +
Ok, I have now read through all of these comments and thought on them.
First thing-- my sex should be completely irrelevant to any discussion not involving female biology or possibly relationship blogs. Thanks.
Second thing-- I'm really not trolling, this is my opinion, and I'm trying to have a discussion about it because I want to hear what other people have to say.
Third thing (most important)--
I think on further reflection, much of my thoughts on this are based in part on how BW gets represented many times when there is talk about it to someone who does not know the game. The overwhelming impression I have received is that watching a few games of BW, or trying to play it yourself will completely change the way you think about BW-- make you love it, make you think it's the best, make you want to learn everything you can about it and be part of that community (regardless of whether or not you drop other particular games all together in favor of it). The tone I feel like I have heard is that there is no way you can not love BW once you have been exposed to it, try watching X game and you will change your mind.
I played a small amount myself-- enough to experience the difference in the amount of multitasking and unit control it requires. I am pretty bad, but I can still appreciate this challenge.
I watched the OSL finals because it seemed that it would represent some of the best play I could see that is happening now. It was exciting, and crazy, and fun to watch.
I watched VODs on my own to find out a bit more about what was going on in the game, and see some of the amazing plays like reaver drops that everyone loves (they are pretty awesome).
I appreciated it-- I think it is a good game, and better than what is out there now. I did not have this epiphany of recognizing how much I wanted to learn more about BW and play it and celebrate it.
One of the prevailing arguments has been that if BW didn't have this inherent bit of "magic" that makes people love it, how would there be such a strong scene, and so much more success for the game than any other?
What I wonder in response-- legitimately, not disrespectfully-- is that if it has that inherent magic, why is it struggling? Why aren't thousands and thousands of new fans entering the scene? Why isn't the foreign fanbase of BW growing after it gets re-exposed to the world with the release of SC2?
If your answer is just simply that they haven't really gotten exposed to BW or understand it, go be a Jehova's Witness. You can't just say that the only reason people don't believe like you do is because they don't understand it. You have to go evangelize.
I have also seen a lot of angry or hurt-- well you just don't understand, you're wrong.
Maybe I am wrong, and so are a lot of other people, but we would be stupid to believe you because you said so. I didn't spend a long time with the game, it is true. I spent long enough to say-- well I wasn't immediately blown away by it so don't think that feeling comes from the game then.
I have seen many good posts on BW, trying to convince others to really look at it and enjoy it. There are posts like that in this thread. These are positive, but mostly still have this assumption that doing x, y, and z suggestions will convert someone to feeling a certain way. I don't think it's enough, and the insistence that it is probably hurts the cause. If you care about it that much, try something new! Find a different way to help people see what you see in the game.
The discussions in various sc2 vs bw threads have pretty much done nothing. Not a lot of people are wandering over and exploring of their own free will. Most of what you get exposed to of the BW community outside of the BW forum is all the negative stuff going on.
Show people it's good-- why aren't all of the passionate BW people on TL organizing BW events and streams, and interactive things specifically designed to involve new people in learning about BW?
This has now drifted away from my original post to an extent-- but I would like to offer something more constructive than just my opinion, and also more insight into how my opinion was formed.
First thing-- my sex should be completely irrelevant to any discussion not involving female biology or possibly relationship blogs. Thanks.
Second thing-- I'm really not trolling, this is my opinion, and I'm trying to have a discussion about it because I want to hear what other people have to say.
Third thing (most important)--
I think on further reflection, much of my thoughts on this are based in part on how BW gets represented many times when there is talk about it to someone who does not know the game. The overwhelming impression I have received is that watching a few games of BW, or trying to play it yourself will completely change the way you think about BW-- make you love it, make you think it's the best, make you want to learn everything you can about it and be part of that community (regardless of whether or not you drop other particular games all together in favor of it). The tone I feel like I have heard is that there is no way you can not love BW once you have been exposed to it, try watching X game and you will change your mind.
I played a small amount myself-- enough to experience the difference in the amount of multitasking and unit control it requires. I am pretty bad, but I can still appreciate this challenge.
I watched the OSL finals because it seemed that it would represent some of the best play I could see that is happening now. It was exciting, and crazy, and fun to watch.
I watched VODs on my own to find out a bit more about what was going on in the game, and see some of the amazing plays like reaver drops that everyone loves (they are pretty awesome).
I appreciated it-- I think it is a good game, and better than what is out there now. I did not have this epiphany of recognizing how much I wanted to learn more about BW and play it and celebrate it.
One of the prevailing arguments has been that if BW didn't have this inherent bit of "magic" that makes people love it, how would there be such a strong scene, and so much more success for the game than any other?
What I wonder in response-- legitimately, not disrespectfully-- is that if it has that inherent magic, why is it struggling? Why aren't thousands and thousands of new fans entering the scene? Why isn't the foreign fanbase of BW growing after it gets re-exposed to the world with the release of SC2?
If your answer is just simply that they haven't really gotten exposed to BW or understand it, go be a Jehova's Witness. You can't just say that the only reason people don't believe like you do is because they don't understand it. You have to go evangelize.
I have also seen a lot of angry or hurt-- well you just don't understand, you're wrong.
Maybe I am wrong, and so are a lot of other people, but we would be stupid to believe you because you said so. I didn't spend a long time with the game, it is true. I spent long enough to say-- well I wasn't immediately blown away by it so don't think that feeling comes from the game then.
I have seen many good posts on BW, trying to convince others to really look at it and enjoy it. There are posts like that in this thread. These are positive, but mostly still have this assumption that doing x, y, and z suggestions will convert someone to feeling a certain way. I don't think it's enough, and the insistence that it is probably hurts the cause. If you care about it that much, try something new! Find a different way to help people see what you see in the game.
The discussions in various sc2 vs bw threads have pretty much done nothing. Not a lot of people are wandering over and exploring of their own free will. Most of what you get exposed to of the BW community outside of the BW forum is all the negative stuff going on.
Show people it's good-- why aren't all of the passionate BW people on TL organizing BW events and streams, and interactive things specifically designed to involve new people in learning about BW?
This has now drifted away from my original post to an extent-- but I would like to offer something more constructive than just my opinion, and also more insight into how my opinion was formed.
I hear a lot about BW, and how much better it is than SC2. Many of the people I talk to on TL love BW. Lots of the guys I know irl who are Starcraft fans love BW. These people are so passionate and excited about their game, and angry when people dismiss it without watching it or playing it themselves. Anyone who gives it a real chance-- who watches some games, sits down and tries to play a bit, who learns about the skill involved, and the community--will realize just how special BW is.
Fair enough.
I started watching some BW vods on Youtube. I watched the OSL live with some friends a few weeks back. I got myself a copy of BW, and played parts of the campaign, and even a few games over LAN with friends.
My conclusion is this:
BW doesn't have that magic-- that special something that makes it more wonderful than any other game, or any other RTS, or w/e. It doesn't have that sparkle. On it's own, it is just an incredibly well-made RTS that got lucky in some ways, and stuck around long enough to develop beyond what we have seen in other games. It's challenging, it's fun, it's exciting to watch and play (and frustrating).
The magic of BW (or any game for that matter) is in the experience of growing with a game for so long. The game means so much to people because of the time and emotion they have invested in it-- as spectators, players, or both. The first time you see it, it's exciting, and overwhelming. There is so much going on, and so many things to learn. You watch or play more. You start to understand the basics. Then you discover just how bad you are in comparison to other people. It's discouraging, but it pushes you to try harder and appreciate the skill of others more. You develop favorite players, favorite teams. You see the game change over time, you see the community change over time. You form friendship with other people who share you love of the game. You have wonderful memories of the nights you stayed up late to watch the finals, even though you had work or school the next morning. You have anger and disappointment for the cheating scandal, and sadness for seeing your favorite player struggling to overcome injuries. After years of something being this part of your life-- how could it not have a certain magic to it that no other game gives you?
I don't put any stock in the idea that BW is more special because of it's audience and popularity. To me it seems like the Super Bowl. Millions of people watch it who don't tune in to the regular season games, who don't know the names of the players, or how they have been improving or falling behind the past few seasons. It's fun to watch and everyone throws a nice party, but it doesn't mean that football has something magic about it that so many people who don't play would tune in to watch these games.
These people don't understand the agony of seeing your team make it to the playoffs year and after year, and knowing they have the potential to reach the Super Bowl, and seeing them lose over and over. They don't have that joy every time they see the young quarterback they have been rooting for to prove himself make another perfect pass. They don't scream until they lose their voice when their team finally makes. They don't cry from being so damn happy, when that Super Bowl they have been hoping for their whole lives is finally won. (Fuck yeah I love Green Bay that much. <3)
When I was a little girl, we would drive to other people's houses to watch the game, because we didn't have a TV. My dad would read every bit of news about them, and repeat it at supper time. We would drive up to Green Bay when we visited my grandparents every summer, and pass the stadium. We would make our own signs, and wave them wildly from our living room couch, knowing if we cheered hard enough our team would win. We would take pride knowing that Green Bay is a people's team, and our team. When we moved to Dallas, we wore our Green Bay shirts loud and proud. The magic comes from how my team has been part of my life.
It's not something inherent about the game. The game may be amazingly well designed, and revolutionize an entire industry. It may be fun to watch, even if you don't play it. It may take incredible feats of skill and dedication to master. It's just a (great) game. The magic happens in how players and spectators choose to make it part of their lives and become emotionally involved with it.
Is it fair to ask someone to be respectful of a game that has been ground breaking, and not to pass it off without giving it a try? Of course.
Is it fair to ask other people to love your game or see what's so wonderful about it? Not really. Without the experience, it's just not the same. Some people will love it. Many people will think-- that's nice. The history of it is awesome. It's not so special as you say. I still like my own games best.
Remember just how meaningful a game can become to someone who invests part of their life in it. If the BW scene dies, that's the same as family member dying for many people. They are losing something that been part of their life for so long, that they care about so much. You can't replace it with anything.
But it's also important to remember you can't expect anyone else to feel exactly the way you feel. Again, it's just like losing a family member-- no matter how amazing they were, and how much you show a stranger of their wonderful life, that stranger can't have the same love and loss that you do, because they didn't have the experience.
TL;DR: Respect each other, and I found BW fun to watch, but not particularly special.
EDIT: Since people seem to not be picking up on this... my point is that whatever makes a game more wonderful to you that every other game in the world is never inherent in the game. A game can be admirable for what it does well on paper, but "the magic" is the emotional connection people develop to a game when it becomes part of their lives over time. Any game can have "the magic", it just depends on an individual's experiences with it.
