EPTBW Magic-- It's not in the game. - Page 13
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Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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Gak2
Canada418 Posts
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
On November 01 2011 10:02 Klogon wrote: Basically, it doesn't matter what anybody says in reply to HP because his post simply looks like it has more authority than anything else you can argue with. This is where bw elitists come in and say only a bw elitist could make a post like that. | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
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nekoconeco
Australia359 Posts
On November 01 2011 10:32 iNfeRnaL wrote: hpig comes in and its basically /thread Missed the point though. From my understanding the overall point from the OP is that devoid of it's community and history BW has no "magic". Or to state it another way by itself BW is just a great really well made game but the "magic" is in the community. If Starcraft or BW were never released and you came across it in a dustbin installed it and played it you would likely enjoy it but it would just be an interesting well made game nothing more. The OP isn't saying that BW has no magic but that the magic comes from the community and competition. Anyway that was what I understood the OP to be saying. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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Spazer
Canada8036 Posts
On November 01 2011 11:48 nekoconeco wrote: Missed the point though. From my understanding the overall point from the OP is that devoid of it's community and history BW has no "magic". Or to state it another way by itself BW is just a great really well made game but the "magic" is in the community. If Starcraft or BW were never released and you came across it in a dustbin installed it and played it you would likely enjoy it but it would just be an interesting well made game nothing more. The OP isn't saying that BW has no magic but that the magic comes from the community and competition. Anyway that was what I understood the OP to be saying. Except you can literally say that about every game or sport in existence. What on earth is the definition of "magic" in this blog, anyways? | ||
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
On November 01 2011 11:48 nekoconeco wrote: Missed the point though. From my understanding the overall point from the OP is that devoid of it's community and history BW has no "magic". Or to state it another way by itself BW is just a great really well made game but the "magic" is in the community. If Starcraft or BW were never released and you came across it in a dustbin installed it and played it you would likely enjoy it but it would just be an interesting well made game nothing more. The OP isn't saying that BW has no magic but that the magic comes from the community and competition. Anyway that was what I understood the OP to be saying. one of the good things about bw when it was a smaller community was that pretty much everyone who watched it had played it on some competitive level and knew what made it great. so when they watch progaming matches it made them that much better than for the average viewer. at one point there was a small fledgling community of casters who watched a lot of bw but had little to no experience the game and started youtube casting. if you played bw you could tell immediately that they had no idea what they were talking about and most of the casters received an enormous amount of backlash. this is kind of what's happening now. the idea that you can just watch bw and "get" will not suffice. when a game is as delicate and intricate as bw you either need to experience it or be told through tremendously good casting in order to gauge the magnitude of certain actions. the "magic" that is interpreted to be community generated should really be seen as a separate entity from the "magic" that made bw a great game. especially when you consider at one point the TL community consisted of 2 or 3 dozen regular posters. here is a good example of a well commentated game for those who have never played before: | ||
HawaiianPig
Canada5155 Posts
On November 01 2011 11:34 Nemesis wrote: Wow Hawaiian Pig is a boss! Especially for putting that much effort for one person, or maybe he just has too much free time. Trust me, I don't have the free time. </lawstudent> On November 01 2011 11:48 nekoconeco wrote: Missed the point though. From my understanding the overall point from the OP is that devoid of it's community and history BW has no "magic". Or to state it another way by itself BW is just a great really well made game but the "magic" is in the community. If Starcraft or BW were never released and you came across it in a dustbin installed it and played it you would likely enjoy it but it would just be an interesting well made game nothing more. The OP isn't saying that BW has no magic but that the magic comes from the community and competition. Anyway that was what I understood the OP to be saying. I addressed this elsewhere: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=281060¤tpage=5#88 On October 31 2011 17:49 HawaiianPig wrote: The more I learned to play the game competitively the more I realized it was something special. As I learned more, I became more and more aware of how much I didn't know. As someone with a competitive FPS background I was quickly able to appreciate this. I soon realized that what set apart a D player to a D+ player to a C player on ICCUP was a staggering amount of perspective with respect to how the game worked. I realized that the game has incredible and unrivaled depth. And therein lies your magic. | ||
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Zariel
Australia1312 Posts
1) Marketing - The major underlining success factor of any product is how it's marketed, if you have companies putting in big money into something, it will get popular no-matter how crap the product is. 2) Commentators - These guys keep people entertained before, during and after the game. From what I see, a commentator needs to be smart at the game too (to decipher strategies players use), create tension, excitement and keep the audience focus. 3) BW's Mechanics - This is a very broad area, but in a nutshell, 2 main things: Units and Difficulty. Units being vultures(mines)/reavers/storms/lurkers combined with the difficulty to reach 'mastery' level of the game (this is just a sample, I could go on forever). The audience will give awesome respect to players who can perform these feats. 4) Fans/Teams/Players - Flash v JD, nuff said. Having talented players showing themselves and putting it their best is what we want to see. Hype, rivalries, and the fanbase all fall into this category which 'self promote' the game. So to answer the question of 'magic in BW'. The only magic I see is how the fuck did a game developer come to a conclusion of having spider mines and reavers and which god created JD and Flash. | ||
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Ideas
United States8182 Posts
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SoFool
Malaysia96 Posts
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Eluadyl
Turkey364 Posts
Believe me, thank god for cold fusion  | ||
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FractalsOnFire
Australia1756 Posts
Game, Set and Match | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
I don't like these discussions on incredibly arbitrary, subjective qualities like magic, simply because the standard isn't set in stone. From a certain point of view, you can make an argument that BW is just a game (removing the context is so easy - if BW was the only RTS game in the world, I don't think we would have sufficient data to compare, for example). You're taking the game in itself, isolating it from factors that definitely affected it (high level play, the discovery of its complexity, etc), and judging it from a perspective BUILT on the factors you removed (especially with the egregious use of analogy). I think that's unfair, and if you wanted a good discussion you could have made a less declarative statement (BW Magic - It's not in the game). Here's my take on it. The so-called "magic" in a game is something a person cannot experience in isolation from high-level play and analysis and a certain level of excitement while playing and watching it. If both those aspects exist, then you'll be able to honestly judge for yourself if the game possesses that indefinable characteristic. BW, when consumed in such an environment, has resulted and continues to result in drawing fans - many of whom haven't even played the game - to itself and its professional scene. These fans have come to accept what you have not. I think this is a manifestation of this "magic", and is conclusive evidence that BW was, and is, more than just a game. | ||
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HighTemper
Canada3867 Posts
On November 01 2011 09:02 Kibibit wrote: I think it leads into one of the bigger problems with explaining the love for the game,in that pre SC2, we were never really pushed to find what it truly was we loved about the game, nor were we pushed to find ways to put that love into words. Up until then, "It's an easy to watch, well balanced FPS" kinda sufficed. Nothing before was similar enough to make us really have to elaborate too hard. Me Ghost. Shoot, cloak, and shit yo. But I agree with you, everybody tends to start appreciating something when one's about to lose it. On November 01 2011 17:41 SoFool wrote: Ok...fair enough, you have your own opinion. You're right in a way that bw have no magic, because in fact it's the legendary players like boxer who casted his magic in it, oov carried it, nada nurtured it and finally flash mastered it. That's why it's so magical to me, peace ;3 Your magic is full of Terran. No, it is not in the race. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:23 JIJIyO wrote: Idra and Artosis come to mind. Idra just seemed Idra about it and said he prefers sc2. Artosis on the other hand always felt like he was forcing sc2 over SC, but again that's just how I felt on his actions. Haha that's an understatement... Artosis is one of the worst examples, but the casters really do exaggerate like hell. And he has a decent level of playing BW so when i'm hearing him say something is amazing that very blatantly is not it's just sad. Tons of the casting is so forced. And willing to constantly reference supply counts that are easily availabe but not actually state the obvious from them preferring to keep up the illusion the game is still competitive. Him and Tasteless sucked if i remember in the TSL2 anyway, i'm happy with Sayle as the commentator because that kind of understated casual casting just suits Starcraft perfectly unless it's some huge finals or something in need of a bit extra. It's a strategy game after all but that's kind of put to the background once someone casts some AMAZING FORCEFIELDS!! I think SC2 could have been out in any state honestly, no matter the quality of the game.. and a lot of the same people would have still done the same. So many people had a vested interest before the game even launched. Can't be objective if you stand to pretty obviously be involved in it as a career. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
However, my brother tuned me into GomTv Classic and even though I sucked balls, only played zerg and didn't know anything about the korean scene (players or teams) I was hyped as fuck watching that entire tournament. After I had a bit (ie minimal) understanding of the game I began digging through youtube and some casting sites for decent english commentary. It was lacking so I watched normal videos with korean commentary; still hyped as fuck. Obviously like in any game there are stomps or boring drawn out games, but if you find two players/teams that are evenly matched it's very entertaining. On par with hockey entertaining imo The reason for this in my mind is the game is always close to balanced and if it's not the mapmakers force equality as best they can. This makes two evenly skilled players fight to the death, grappling for every advantage and never giving space if they don't have to I LOVE THAT. SC2 is prettier, there are more explosions, and things die everywhere super fast. However I barely play it and barely watch it because I don't usually get excited watching a game. When I do get pumped it's because of a player or team playing, because of a personal investment not because I can sit down watch any two high level players play and get hyped because it's going to be tense. If SC2 had a slower pace (units wise) and allowed more of the player to shine through maybe i'd watch it more, but as it stands right now I can honestly say I'd rather watch two B or higher players duke it out on Iccup than watch 90% of SC2 games. | ||
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