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BW Magic-- It's not in the game. - Page 11
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BroodWarHD
136 Posts
Stay a while, and listen to our tales of greatness and glory. We will make it worth your while. | ||
Corinthos
Canada1842 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:56 7mk wrote: god, people could you stop with the sexism and your fucking stupid use of the word "troll" @OP your point in your last post seems to be "if its such a great game, why isnt it more popular" Since when does being good mean accessible? what does popularity say about how good it is? How many kids would rather listen to Lady Gaga than to Led Zeppelin. Watching a few BW games and playing some doesnt mean youre gonna fall in love. BW isnt for everyone, that says nothing about its quality as a game, and also playing a few games doesnt mean you understand anything about the game. Have you played iccup? whats your rank? if its below d+ than you obviously dont know the slightest bit about the game. (and then theres c-,c,c+,b-,b,b+,a-,a - all these ranks have a very significant difference in how good these people are at the game, whereas for example in SC2 you could just stuff all these people into the "masters" category) I dont understand whats great about Picassos paintings... that doesnt mean that people who do love his work only do so because of their personal experience and because of their subjective biased perspective... its just that these people know more about art, and they know what is so brilliant about it, I don't. Just cause Ive looked at some paintings of his and dont feel the "magic" doesnt mean it isn't there. I actually agree with a good amount of your original post... i mean the whole experience thing of course adds a LOT to your love of the game, but it isnt the original cause for all of it. well that statement just supports what the OP is saying :D I should of expanded on it, but I think I made it out wrong as well. What I meant is there is magic in the game and that attract's us to it. It's something special and when you meet other's who share this it reinforces it. => It's because of the game, and we are drawn to it first. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:28 BroodWarHD wrote: BW isnt designed for the masses of casual gamers, its too hard compared to cod, lol, sc2. In a sense, the very essence of BW defines its elitist fan base, so it is little surprise we behave as we do. And yeah, thats why its struggling. SC2, while being marginally more casual-friendly than BW, is remarkably unfriendly to casual players, for many of the same reasons as BW. The vast majority of people I know personally who own the game have stopped playing because they realized the learning curve was too steep for them and they didn't like being shown how poor they were at the game. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:07 Lysenko wrote: Oh, please. It's perfectly valid for someone to feel, for whatever reason, that BW isn't much fun, or that they don't want to get far enough into it to see its strong points. As for "greatest game ever made," BW isn't even in the running. Try something like chess or go, both of which have been played in pretty much their current state for centuries. Even if you limit that to computer games, where it is certainly in the running, you're going to have to go up against Pac-Man, Quake, Tetris, and Super Mario Brothers. Edit: I don't say this to say bad things about BW as a game, just to point out that painting people who aren't engaged by it as idiots isn't a way to win anyone over. Of course, if you just want to call those people idiots, knock yourself out, I guess! Ummm I think you're wrong lol. It might not win the "best game ever" award, but it gets pretty freaking close. Ex: http://top100.ign.com/2005/001-010.html In 2005 IGN placed it at #7 of all time. Number fucking 7. Hands down SC is the best RTS ever created. There's no game that even comes remotely close. As a game outright it's pretty good too. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:16 wherebugsgo wrote: Ummm I think you're wrong lol. It might not win the "best game ever" award, but it gets pretty freaking close. Ex: http://top100.ign.com/2005/001-010.html In 2005 IGN placed it at #7 of all time. Number fucking 7 Hey, I was willing to put it in the top 5 with the other games I mentioned, so wouldn't you say I'm being as generous as IGN, if not more so? :D Edit: Interesting to see that the games I picked overlapped with IGN's. | ||
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SonuvBob
Aiur21549 Posts
On November 01 2011 01:56 RedJustice wrote: What I wonder in response-- legitimately, not disrespectfully-- is that if it has that inherent magic, why is it struggling? Why aren't thousands and thousands of new fans entering the scene? Why isn't the foreign fanbase of BW growing after it gets re-exposed to the world with the release of SC2? Because all the money's in SC2 (at least in the foreign scene), and BW is far less accessible to casual fans. With the game's release, the number of SC2 players dwarfed the BW player pool, and the new players naturally had more interest in the game they played than in its predecessor. Sponsors are already almost solely interested in spending money on new games (which can help them sell hardware), and Blizzard is now actively supporting competitive SC2, so that's where the money goes. And where the money goes, the players follow (ask any ex-BW player which game they'd prefer if money was no object). So the foreign competitive BW scene, which was pretty accessible to casual fans, nearly disappeared when SC2 tournaments started showing up. Not just the players, but the top casters also found they could actually make a living with SC2. The main source of an ESPORT's viewership is the game's players, and BW is not exactly a newb-friendly game. And without English commentary, Korean BW is very difficult to get into (the lack of foreign players to follow doesn't help either). It's possible for SC2 fans to get into BW, but it takes some  EffOrt. Threads like this will go a long way towards bringing in new blood, as would more high-quality English commentary (afaik it's mostly just Sayle, but I don't know if he does Korean pro games). If Day[9] started doing BW dailies for a few weeks, there would be a huge boom.Overall I think the BW fanbase will grow steadily until the Korean scene dies. If it does die, I have no idea what will happen, but I'm not optimistic. There's simply too little money in the foreign BW scene to sustain it, when players could be making so much more with SC2. =/ | ||
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:19 SonuvBob wrote: Because all the money's in SC2 (at least in the foreign scene), and BW is far less accessible to casual fans. With the game's release, the number of SC2 players dwarfed the BW player pool, and the new players naturally had more interest in the game they played than in its predecessor. Sponsors are already almost solely interested in spending money on new games (which can help them sell hardware), and Blizzard is now actively supporting competitive SC2, so that's where the money goes. And where the money goes, the players follow (ask any ex-BW player which game they'd prefer if money was no object). So the foreign competitive BW scene, which was pretty accessible to casual fans, nearly disappeared when SC2 tournaments started showing up. Not just the players, but the top casters also found they could actually make a living with SC2. The main source of an ESPORT's viewership is the game's players, and BW is not exactly a newb-friendly game. And without English commentary, Korean BW is very difficult to get into (the lack of foreign players to follow doesn't help either). It's possible for SC2 fans to get into BW, but it takes some EffOrt. Threads like this will go a long way towards bringing in new blood, as would more high-quality English commentary (afaik it's mostly just Sayle, but I don't know if he does Korean pro games). If Day[9] started doing BW dailies for a few weeks, there would be a huge boom.Overall I think the BW fanbase will grow steadily until the Korean scene dies. If it does die, I have no idea what will happen, but I'm not optimistic. There's simply too little money in the foreign BW scene to sustain it, when players could be making so much more with SC2. =/ Idra and Artosis come to mind. Idra just seemed Idra about it and said he prefers sc2. Artosis on the other hand always felt like he was forcing sc2 over SC, but again that's just how I felt on his actions. | ||
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JSH
United States4109 Posts
or multiple specials~ | ||
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.gypsy
Canada689 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:07 Lysenko wrote: Oh, please. It's perfectly valid for someone to feel, for whatever reason, that BW isn't much fun, or that they don't want to get far enough into it to see its strong points. As for "greatest game ever made," BW isn't even in the running. Try something like chess or go, both of which have been played in pretty much their current state for centuries. Even if you limit that to computer games, where it is certainly in the running, you're going to have to go up against Pac-Man, Quake, Tetris, and Super Mario Brothers. Edit: I don't say this to say bad things about BW as a game, just to point out that painting people who aren't engaged by it as idiots isn't a way to win anyone over. Of course, if you just want to call those people idiots, knock yourself out, I guess! ignorant =/= idiot. I specified that I'm talking about RTS games. I also specified that what makes a good game (criteria), would be what makes BW the best game. Though this seems rather vague, I'm too lazy to define something much more concrete. This is to avoid pointless subjective discussion where someone argues "best" to be defined by something else (e.g. A "good" game must be hard v.s. a "good" game must be easy). Whatever, irrelevant discussion. | ||
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Neverhood
United States5388 Posts
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:13 Corinthos wrote: :D I should of expanded on it, but I think I made it out wrong as well. What I meant is there is magic in the game and that attract's us to it. It's something special and when you meet other's who share this it reinforces it. => It's because of the game, and we are drawn to it first. i see =) oh yeah sonuvbobs post reminds me that theres one thing i forgot I wanted to say, which is that foreign brood war is dead (for the reasons sonuvbob mentioend)... of course if you look at a game and its scene is dead that makes it less attractive. I got into brood war in 2008, this was a much better time to get into it compared to now, Tasteless was the sickest caster in the world back then and there was a good amount of GOM videos available in english and also a good amount of lesser but still entertaining casters from sc2gg. Day9 started happening, TSL happened twice.. this made it all much easier to get into, rather than immediately starting by watching korean casts, now it's all switched to sc2, the players, the tournaments, the youtube casters (nukethestars being a rare exception). Now all thats left is korean BW with korean casters, and even that is dying. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
I didn't believe it was possible to disagree with a post this much, but then I read your blog. I am a huge football fan myself but your blog honestly feels like someone who has never watched the game saying the exact same thing about the NFL, it's close minded and irresponsible. | ||
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Mothra
United States1448 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:19 SonuvBob wrote: Because all the money's in SC2 (at least in the foreign scene), and BW is far less accessible to casual fans. With the game's release, the number of SC2 players dwarfed the BW player pool, and the new players naturally had more interest in the game they played than in its predecessor. Sponsors are already almost solely interested in spending money on new games (which can help them sell hardware), and Blizzard is now actively supporting competitive SC2, so that's where the money goes. And where the money goes, the players follow (ask any ex-BW player which game they'd prefer if money was no object). So the foreign competitive BW scene, which was pretty accessible to casual fans, nearly disappeared when SC2 tournaments started showing up. Not just the players, but the top casters also found they could actually make a living with SC2. The main source of an ESPORT's viewership is the game's players, and BW is not exactly a newb-friendly game. And without English commentary, Korean BW is very difficult to get into (the lack of foreign players to follow doesn't help either). It's possible for SC2 fans to get into BW, but it takes some EffOrt. Threads like this will go a long way towards bringing in new blood, as would more high-quality English commentary (afaik it's mostly just Sayle, but I don't know if he does Korean pro games). If Day[9] started doing BW dailies for a few weeks, there would be a huge boom.Overall I think the BW fanbase will grow steadily until the Korean scene dies. If it does die, I have no idea what will happen, but I'm not optimistic. There's simply too little money in the foreign BW scene to sustain it, when players could be making so much more with SC2. =/ You have a point, the main reason why bw is so innacessible is that its scene is in korea, with korean commentators and players, at korean time. Nevertheless, I would like to point out (I'm thinking about blogging something about it) that the foreign bw scene is not as dead as a lot of people make it sound, and it's in fact having a kind of revival, in my eyes at least. And to answer Sayle has said he'll probably commentate PL this year at night CET, I'm hopeful it can create interest, as Sayle has managed to attract pretty big numbers before (he even got 1800 people max for a fun tourney while there wasn't big sc2 around, so there is definitely potential). And yeah ideally Day9 would do one or two bw daylies, but I've more or less given up a long time ago. | ||
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GreenManalishi
Canada834 Posts
BW is a game that the more you watch it, the better it becomes. For me, that is where the magic is. If I can still fall out of my chair because I am so tense due to some crazy tech switch, bait, or mind fuck, after watching BW for 7 years, there is definitely something magical. I honestly can't think of anything that rewards experience and knowledge to the level BW does. Yes I enjoy watching hockey more since I know the players, their stats, and most of the plays that they are making, but BW is on a whole other level. Without knowing the timings, counters, and builds, a lot of the strategic depth and skill is completely lost. The mechanical demands of BW are also much greater then SC2, and just watching Best macro can be chill inducing. | ||
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RedJustice
United States1004 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:58 Hot_Bid wrote: The emotion and connection the fans have with BW is precisely what makes the "magic" and makes it special. It's a lot like college athletics in that way, the players aren't paid much and a lot of what they do is because of passion, it's a lot of "care" for not a lot of return. I didn't believe it was possible to disagree with a post this much, but then I read your blog. I am a huge football fan myself but your blog honestly feels like someone who has never watched the game saying the exact same thing about the NFL, it's close minded and irresponsible. The last sentence is unclear to me. Watched which game wut? | ||
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Bayyne
United States1967 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:58 Hot_Bid wrote: The emotion and connection the fans have with BW is precisely what makes the "magic" and makes it special. It's a lot like college athletics in that way, the players aren't paid much and a lot of what they do is because of passion, it's a lot of "care" for not a lot of return. I didn't believe it was possible to disagree with a post this much, but then I read your blog. I am a huge football fan myself but your blog honestly feels like someone who has never watched the game saying the exact same thing about the NFL, it's close minded and irresponsible. Miami football players might disagree! =P | ||
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RedJustice
United States1004 Posts
I loled pretty hard. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
If your answer is just simply that they haven't really gotten exposed to BW or understand it It's pretty much this. If you actually understand BW, take the time to read those 'SC2 v BW' threads, you quickly come to the realization that many 'sc2 players' have no fucking clue when they comment about BW. | ||
HawaiianPig
Canada5155 Posts
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