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So, I drove about 6 hours and went with a bunch of friends to watch and here are some things I took away from the event.
1. There are an insane # of people watching starcraft. I tried to estimate the # of people. There were exactly 800 chairs for the center stage and around 150 for each of the sides and that still wasn't enough. I think there were at least another 400 standing up so around a total of 1500 (max) probably closer to 1200.
2. Fans were SUPER disappointed when the foreigners got knocked out. It felt like a lot of the cheers were forced. When Boxer lost, a lot of people around me left and got pissed. When Huk got knocked out the crowd was super silent and barely cheered for ganzi. Same when idra lost to naniwa. Watching tvt on a stream might be fine, but it is seriously the most boring matchup (IMO) to watch live. ZvT is definitely the most fun to watch live with PvZ being a close second. PvT's this weekend were awful. Almost all of the PvT's i watched were 1 or 2 base allin timing attacks.
3. Not enough to do besides watch. Seriously, if they bring 2000 people to come watch, they need to provide a lot more activities. Maybe a Pro Corner were you can learn something from the pros or a replay booth or something.
4. Show more foreigners. Why didn't they show the huk vs haypro match? or the idra vs naniwa on the mainstage. I don't understand. Most of the fans were there for their players.
5. Did I mention that there weren't enough chairs? Seriously. I will never go to another mlg event unless they have more chairs.
6. Starcraft really needs 2 stages. 1 is definitely not enough. I would love to be able to choose between 2 matches to watch.
7. Why is COD an mlg game? I can see halo being popular but there were seriously like 20 people watching COD at any given time and most of them were either parents or other players. Also the sound was so loud it would make it hard to hear the starcraft game if you weren't sitting down in the area.
8. The atmosphere was awesome. Every was enjoying d1 and d2. I think the loudest cheers were for white-ra. For those complaining about the cheers not being super loud, the ceilings at the convention center are SUPER high and there is a huge area behind so there was nothing for the sound to bounce off of.
9. Most people know very little about sc2 at all and barely keep up with the scene, but they still watch it. The majority of people here on tl know who mvp is, etc, but the majority there don't. If it's truly going to go mainstream, this needs to change.
Which brings me to my last and most controversial point
10. Limit the # of koreans in pool play to 4. I would almost say no koreans but people were cheering hard for boxer and donraegu, but almost no one was cheering for MVP. Yes, you might want to see the BEST players in the world, but as fans, I want to see the best players I know that can create a storyline. Imagine if the finals were idra vs boxer or huk vs naniwa or white-ra vs anyone. It would have been a much better atmosphere. A lot of people left when the foreginers all got knocked out too and the players seemed hopeless when playing them. A starcraft 2 tournament should be stressful yes, but it got to the point where it didn't look like the foreigners were enjoying the koreans winning everything. Maybe at columbus, when introducing koreans for the first time, it was enjoyable, but when korean take top 6, it's totally different.
Although the blog is mostly about criticisms, I must say I enjoyed it and would go again if they had more chairs.
Huk sporting his jacket that he stole from ogsjookto
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bCGlp.jpg)
  
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I love how since BW days, Koreans are given this mystique and then there's some underlying pseudo-racism going on about them and how they shouldn't be involved. All because they put out results...
If you want the world to get in on esports, they get to play.
If you want a fair and competitive game, they get to play.
It's not wrong of them to win and just because you don't care to learn their culture or their language, doesn't make them unable to tell a "story." What you seem to want is wrestling. English only at that.
Seriously, I've seen it since I've been here. It's so damn funny to see.
Just because ol' whitey can't hack it doesn't mean they should get burnt.
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On August 02 2011 06:42 TheGlassface wrote:
I love how since BW days, Koreans are given this mystique and then there's some underlying pseudo-racism going on about them and how they shouldn't be involved. All because they put out results...
If you want the world to get in on esports, they get to play.
If you want a fair and competitive game, they get to play.
It's not wrong of them to win and just because you don't care to learn their culture or their language, doesn't make them unable to tell a "story." What you seem to want is wrestling. English only at that.
Seriously, I've seen it since I've been here. It's so damn funny to see.
Just because ol' whitey can't hack it doesn't mean they should get burnt.
Actually I thought the exact same way you did until this weekend. Personally I love watching the koreans, but the majority of other fans didn't. I don't think removing koreans is the right idea, but giving them a headstart in pool play definitely isn't the right solution.
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5/5 !
I liked it. I didn't go but everything you said makes sense. I definitly wasn't happy about a Korean top 6 - skilled or not. Storylines are huge in this game, watching your favorite players etc. I think the reason Columbus was so popular was because of MC, he's a very likable guy, who we've seen win big and lose big. People are divided on him, but love him all the same, making his games fun to watch.
Whereas someone like MVP just dominates everything and people are like, "cool. i guess he's good at TvT and beating foreigners."
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Lol @ putting a limit on koreans that can make it into group play. Maybe we should put a handicap like playing blindfolded or 1 game down?
I personally would not have come to MLG if there weren't any korean invites or if they were B team koreans just so foreigners could beat them. Koreans aren't hurting anything. Look at all the MLGs before this one and see just how many people showed up compared to it. The live crowd and the people watching were 20x bigger, and no, it wasn't because MLG stepped up their production.
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How bout instead of excluding Koreans. Foreigners get better and actually start practicing so we can see some high level "white vs Korean" games. That would make it a lot better than dumming down the competition imo
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I don't think it has anything to do with racism or cultural intolerance, however easy it may be to make that argument.
I think it completely has to do with how we know the foreign players a lot better based on the simple fact that the NA and EU tournaments are a lot more accessible to watch than GSL. That big, awesome, best-SC2-you-will-ever-see tournament is only on at ridiculous hours for Americans, and the VODs are not free. We don't like to pay for our e-sports viewing after paying 60 bucks for a game. The tournaments we watch are the European IEMs, DreamHacks, HSCs, etc. and of course our own MLG, NASL, and lots of Husky/HD/MrBitter/Day9 casts, who show a lot more foreign games than Korean.
While the Koreans may be owning the foreigners, we like the players that have a cool story or appeal to something, not just the best. And above all we like the players that we know. Personal anecdote on that line: I think IdrA's really bitchy and annoying with his BM and such, but I will always cheer for him over a Korean by virtue of the fact that I know his story and his personality.
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Lol instead of limiting koreans why not have player history during breaks and instead of limiting koreans, beating them? Honestly what type of gamer is one who is happy keeping out the best only to have comfortable wins. Making sc2 better means bringing together, not taking apart.
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How is #2 a criticism that they can fix?
The Korean thing is your own opinion. I'd rather watch the best players duke it out. Besides what's the point of bringing Koreans over if you're not going to put them up on the stage. You can go to any other US events and see foreigners. When are you going to travel to Korea to meet the Korean progamers?
#3: It's a spectator pass, you go there to watch. I don't think anyone has any other expectations besides watching games and catch a glimpse of their favorite players
And there have been a lot of posts about fire hazards, which is why the # of chairs aren't increased
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instead of limiting koreans why not have player history during breaks and instead of limiting koreans, beating them? Honestly what type of gamer is one who is happy keeping out the best only to have comfortable wins. Making sc2 better means bringing together, not taking apart.
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instead of limiting koreans why not have player history during breaks and instead of limiting koreans, beating them? Honestly what type of gamer is one who is happy keeping out the best only to have comfortable wins. Making sc2 better means bringing together, not taking apart.
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On August 02 2011 06:49 awu25 wrote:
How is #2 a criticism that they can fix?
The Korean thing is your own opinion. I'd rather watch the best players duke it out. Besides what's the point of bringing Koreans over if you're not going to put them up on the stage. You can go to any other US events and see foreigners. When are you going to travel to Korea to meet the Korean progamers?
#3: It's a spectator pass, you go there to watch. I don't think anyone has any other expectations besides watching games and catch a glimpse of their favorite players
And there have been a lot of posts about fire hazards, which is why the # of chairs aren't increased
There was a ton to do for fps gamers. There was a FFA tournament, there were setups for testing equipment, trying new games, etc. There was 1 starcraft computer open to people and you had to bring your own mouse and keyboard to play it.
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Also, I agree with the chairs still even though I don't agree with you on the koreans part. I don't care if it's a fire hazard, things NEED to be changed so that people aren't forced to stand for 10 hours 3 days straight. The idea of reserving a seat when there's that many people is just stupid and it would be better for EVERYONE if you weren't allowed to do that. Then at least the people with seats aren't forced to camp it all day long and can move around, and people who have been standing can get a shot at sitting. Sharing isn't so bad is it?
Also, if they can't even support that, limit the amount of spectators getting into the event then or make some sort of pass that gives you better seating. I'd pay for it.
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DEY TOOK AR JOBS , I think it is awesome Koreans are coming to the land of opportunity to steal some prize money. After all we have members that go to gsl. DEY TOOK ARR JOBS!
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On August 02 2011 06:42 TheGlassface wrote:
If you want the world to get in on esports, they get to play.
If you want a fair and competitive game, they get to play.
It's not wrong of them to win and just because you don't care to learn their culture or their language, doesn't make them unable to tell a "story." What you seem to want is wrestling. English only at that.
He was talking more about entertainment value than fairness. And it's true, watching 6 koreans battle it out for first in southern california is not as fun as watching say, Huk vs IdrA battle it out for first. Remember how big the TSL3 was?
And when you say "you don't care to learn their culture," who exactly do you think you are? Are you a korean culture expert or something? Or maybe you just think that because you watch the GSL at 2am that you're a cool kid? The OP is completely right, we foreigners (even GSL watchers) don't know a ton of stories and thus it's less interesting to watch.
It's not a "koreans are OP" issue, it's just how much vested interest the audience has. If you like football but don't specifically follow the rams or the raiders, then you don't want to watch St. Louis play the Panthers, they would rather watch their favorite team play their rival (think Dallas vs New York or Green Bay vs Minnesota).
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I was also at the event.
1. God yes. More chairs please.
2. Well, I was super happy. This is a competition, not an exhibition. Personally I loved watching MVP play his genial terran style, especially when I got to watch him from 10 feet away in first person at stages 1 and 2. If fans can't appreciate stellar play, then they shouldn't be fans of the sport in the first place. Deal with it.
3. Yes... more computers to allow fans to play matches against each other would also be good. However, in my opinion, they could just expand the first person viewer areas of stages 1 and 2. Appreciating the insane mechanics and game sense of Korean first person play was the best part of the event for me.
4. Honestly I preferred to watch my favorite players play on stages 1 and 2, not the main stage. Sure the main stage might be more "hype," but stages 1 and 2 were the real meat of the event. I'm glad that they limited terrible foreigner matches shown for hype like Idra vs Cruncher to a minimum.
5. Yes yes yes.
6. There's stages 1 and 2, but they need to be much bigger.
7. God yes.
8. Fans were good, but very fickle. The fact that DRG and MMA had more cheers than MVP, who is a much better player, kind of made me disappointed in the SC2 foreigner community.
9. People will learn more about the awesomeness of MVP and his ilk when they are exposed to them, like they were at MLG. If they decide they don't like it, then I don't want them to be fans of the sport in the first place.
10. Impossible. With the integration of Korean and foreigner teams like FXO-fOu, this is never going to happen. I'm glad that people like you aren't in charge of these events if you believe that. There might be the vocal minority of fans (especially the loud "bros" at the event who only cheer for foreigners) who don't appreciate the best play, but many more do.
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On August 02 2011 06:47 Moonling wrote:
How bout instead of excluding Koreans. Foreigners get better and actually start practicing so we can see some high level "white vs Korean" games. That would make it a lot better than dumming down the competition imo
The problem isn't that they are korean, it's that the progaming environment and culture is huge in korea so it fosters a high number of high level players who are constantly pushing each other to improve. The huk vs sjow match is an example. It was a joke. Huk completely dominated sjow without even trying. He even made a TL out of pylons in the middle of the match it was such a joke. The level of difference between korean training and non-korean training is stupid.
Previously I would say "Foreigners need to practice more", but the problem is that you can only get as good as the players you are playing against. To really improve you need to be playing against a large number of players who are at the same skill if not higher than you. When naniwa gets full korean training I fully expect him to become more of a beast than he already is.
Unless sc2 gets more popular with the younger generation, then foreign sc2 will always remain lackluster in comparison, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy it. Many countries in the world have their own football league and they root hard for their teams. Imagine if the MLS did an exchange program with Premier League. The best MLS team will compete in next years premier league while a random, possibly terrible premier team gets to compete in MLS. Guess who would win?
That's just how it is and it will only grow worse over time.
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On August 02 2011 07:00 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:47 Moonling wrote:
How bout instead of excluding Koreans. Foreigners get better and actually start practicing so we can see some high level "white vs Korean" games. That would make it a lot better than dumming down the competition imo The problem isn't that they are korean, it's that the progaming environment and culture is huge in korea so it fosters a high number of high level players who are constantly pushing each other to improve. The huk vs sjow match is an example. It was a joke. Huk completely dominated sjow without even trying. He even made a TL out of pylons in the middle of the match it was such a joke. The level of difference between korean training and non-korean training is stupid. Previously I would say "Foreigners need to practice more", but the problem is that you can only get as good as the players you are playing against. To really improve you need to be playing against a large number of players who are at the same skill if not higher than you. When naniwa gets full korean training I fully expect him to become more of a beast than he already is. Unless sc2 gets more popular with the younger generation, then foreign sc2 will always remain lackluster in comparison, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy it. Many countries in the world have their own football league and they root hard for their teams. Imagine if the MLS did an exchange program with Premier League. The best MLS team will compete in next years premier league while a random, possibly terrible premier team gets to compete in MLS. Guess who would win? That's just how it is and it will only grow worse over time.
So more foreigners need to prove they're serious about their careers and go to Korea to train. It's a joke that the EG players get the salary they do and are this pathetic.
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On August 02 2011 06:42 TheGlassface wrote:
I love how since BW days, Koreans are given this mystique and then there's some underlying pseudo-racism going on about them and how they shouldn't be involved. All because they put out results...
If you want the world to get in on esports, they get to play.
If you want a fair and competitive game, they get to play.
It's not wrong of them to win and just because you don't care to learn their culture or their language, doesn't make them unable to tell a "story." What you seem to want is wrestling. English only at that.
Seriously, I've seen it since I've been here. It's so damn funny to see.
Just because ol' whitey can't hack it doesn't mean they should get burnt.
Going so strong until you had to throw in the racial slur. Even if you are white, cut it out.
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On August 02 2011 06:58 Kraznaya wrote:
I was also at the event.
1. God yes. More chairs please.
2. Well, I was super happy. This is a competition, not an exhibition. Personally I loved watching MVP play his genial terran style, especially when I got to watch him from 10 feet away in first person at stages 1 and 2. If fans can't appreciate stellar play, then they shouldn't be fans of the sport in the first place. Deal with it.
3. Yes... more computers to allow fans to play matches against each other would also be good. However, in my opinion, they could just expand the first person viewer areas of stages 1 and 2. Appreciating the insane mechanics and game sense of Korean first person play was the best part of the event for me.
4. Honestly I preferred to watch my favorite players play on stages 1 and 2, not the main stage. Sure the main stage might be more "hype," but stages 1 and 2 were the real meat of the event. I'm glad that they limited terrible foreigner matches shown for hype like Idra vs Cruncher to a minimum.
5. Yes yes yes.
6. There's stages 1 and 2, but they need to be much bigger.
7. God yes.
8. Fans were good, but very fickle. The fact that DRG and MMA had more cheers than MVP, who is a much better player, kind of made me disappointed in the SC2 foreigner community.
9. People will learn more about the awesomeness of MVP and his ilk when they are exposed to them, like they were at MLG. If they decide they don't like it, then I don't want them to be fans of the sport in the first place.
10. Impossible. With the integration of Korean and foreigner teams like FXO-fOu, this is never going to happen. I'm glad that people like you aren't in charge of these events if you believe that. There might be the vocal minority of fans (especially the loud "bros" at the event who only cheer for foreigners) who don't appreciate the best play, but many more do.
Hmm you make an interesting point there. Now I have to think more. That's the best response so far. I totally forgot about the team integration.
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EPT
