|
So, I drove about 6 hours and went with a bunch of friends to watch and here are some things I took away from the event.
1. There are an insane # of people watching starcraft. I tried to estimate the # of people. There were exactly 800 chairs for the center stage and around 150 for each of the sides and that still wasn't enough. I think there were at least another 400 standing up so around a total of 1500 (max) probably closer to 1200.
2. Fans were SUPER disappointed when the foreigners got knocked out. It felt like a lot of the cheers were forced. When Boxer lost, a lot of people around me left and got pissed. When Huk got knocked out the crowd was super silent and barely cheered for ganzi. Same when idra lost to naniwa. Watching tvt on a stream might be fine, but it is seriously the most boring matchup (IMO) to watch live. ZvT is definitely the most fun to watch live with PvZ being a close second. PvT's this weekend were awful. Almost all of the PvT's i watched were 1 or 2 base allin timing attacks.
3. Not enough to do besides watch. Seriously, if they bring 2000 people to come watch, they need to provide a lot more activities. Maybe a Pro Corner were you can learn something from the pros or a replay booth or something.
4. Show more foreigners. Why didn't they show the huk vs haypro match? or the idra vs naniwa on the mainstage. I don't understand. Most of the fans were there for their players.
5. Did I mention that there weren't enough chairs? Seriously. I will never go to another mlg event unless they have more chairs.
6. Starcraft really needs 2 stages. 1 is definitely not enough. I would love to be able to choose between 2 matches to watch.
7. Why is COD an mlg game? I can see halo being popular but there were seriously like 20 people watching COD at any given time and most of them were either parents or other players. Also the sound was so loud it would make it hard to hear the starcraft game if you weren't sitting down in the area.
8. The atmosphere was awesome. Every was enjoying d1 and d2. I think the loudest cheers were for white-ra. For those complaining about the cheers not being super loud, the ceilings at the convention center are SUPER high and there is a huge area behind so there was nothing for the sound to bounce off of.
9. Most people know very little about sc2 at all and barely keep up with the scene, but they still watch it. The majority of people here on tl know who mvp is, etc, but the majority there don't. If it's truly going to go mainstream, this needs to change.
Which brings me to my last and most controversial point
10. Limit the # of koreans in pool play to 4. I would almost say no koreans but people were cheering hard for boxer and donraegu, but almost no one was cheering for MVP. Yes, you might want to see the BEST players in the world, but as fans, I want to see the best players I know that can create a storyline. Imagine if the finals were idra vs boxer or huk vs naniwa or white-ra vs anyone. It would have been a much better atmosphere. A lot of people left when the foreginers all got knocked out too and the players seemed hopeless when playing them. A starcraft 2 tournament should be stressful yes, but it got to the point where it didn't look like the foreigners were enjoying the koreans winning everything. Maybe at columbus, when introducing koreans for the first time, it was enjoyable, but when korean take top 6, it's totally different.
Although the blog is mostly about criticisms, I must say I enjoyed it and would go again if they had more chairs.
Huk sporting his jacket that he stole from ogsjookto
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bCGlp.jpg)
  
|
I love how since BW days, Koreans are given this mystique and then there's some underlying pseudo-racism going on about them and how they shouldn't be involved. All because they put out results...
If you want the world to get in on esports, they get to play.
If you want a fair and competitive game, they get to play.
It's not wrong of them to win and just because you don't care to learn their culture or their language, doesn't make them unable to tell a "story." What you seem to want is wrestling. English only at that.
Seriously, I've seen it since I've been here. It's so damn funny to see.
Just because ol' whitey can't hack it doesn't mean they should get burnt.
|
On August 02 2011 06:42 TheGlassface wrote:
I love how since BW days, Koreans are given this mystique and then there's some underlying pseudo-racism going on about them and how they shouldn't be involved. All because they put out results...
If you want the world to get in on esports, they get to play.
If you want a fair and competitive game, they get to play.
It's not wrong of them to win and just because you don't care to learn their culture or their language, doesn't make them unable to tell a "story." What you seem to want is wrestling. English only at that.
Seriously, I've seen it since I've been here. It's so damn funny to see.
Just because ol' whitey can't hack it doesn't mean they should get burnt.
Actually I thought the exact same way you did until this weekend. Personally I love watching the koreans, but the majority of other fans didn't. I don't think removing koreans is the right idea, but giving them a headstart in pool play definitely isn't the right solution.
|
5/5 !
I liked it. I didn't go but everything you said makes sense. I definitly wasn't happy about a Korean top 6 - skilled or not. Storylines are huge in this game, watching your favorite players etc. I think the reason Columbus was so popular was because of MC, he's a very likable guy, who we've seen win big and lose big. People are divided on him, but love him all the same, making his games fun to watch.
Whereas someone like MVP just dominates everything and people are like, "cool. i guess he's good at TvT and beating foreigners."
|
Lol @ putting a limit on koreans that can make it into group play. Maybe we should put a handicap like playing blindfolded or 1 game down?
I personally would not have come to MLG if there weren't any korean invites or if they were B team koreans just so foreigners could beat them. Koreans aren't hurting anything. Look at all the MLGs before this one and see just how many people showed up compared to it. The live crowd and the people watching were 20x bigger, and no, it wasn't because MLG stepped up their production.
|
How bout instead of excluding Koreans. Foreigners get better and actually start practicing so we can see some high level "white vs Korean" games. That would make it a lot better than dumming down the competition imo
|
I don't think it has anything to do with racism or cultural intolerance, however easy it may be to make that argument.
I think it completely has to do with how we know the foreign players a lot better based on the simple fact that the NA and EU tournaments are a lot more accessible to watch than GSL. That big, awesome, best-SC2-you-will-ever-see tournament is only on at ridiculous hours for Americans, and the VODs are not free. We don't like to pay for our e-sports viewing after paying 60 bucks for a game. The tournaments we watch are the European IEMs, DreamHacks, HSCs, etc. and of course our own MLG, NASL, and lots of Husky/HD/MrBitter/Day9 casts, who show a lot more foreign games than Korean.
While the Koreans may be owning the foreigners, we like the players that have a cool story or appeal to something, not just the best. And above all we like the players that we know. Personal anecdote on that line: I think IdrA's really bitchy and annoying with his BM and such, but I will always cheer for him over a Korean by virtue of the fact that I know his story and his personality.
|
Lol instead of limiting koreans why not have player history during breaks and instead of limiting koreans, beating them? Honestly what type of gamer is one who is happy keeping out the best only to have comfortable wins. Making sc2 better means bringing together, not taking apart.
|
How is #2 a criticism that they can fix?
The Korean thing is your own opinion. I'd rather watch the best players duke it out. Besides what's the point of bringing Koreans over if you're not going to put them up on the stage. You can go to any other US events and see foreigners. When are you going to travel to Korea to meet the Korean progamers?
#3: It's a spectator pass, you go there to watch. I don't think anyone has any other expectations besides watching games and catch a glimpse of their favorite players
And there have been a lot of posts about fire hazards, which is why the # of chairs aren't increased
|
instead of limiting koreans why not have player history during breaks and instead of limiting koreans, beating them? Honestly what type of gamer is one who is happy keeping out the best only to have comfortable wins. Making sc2 better means bringing together, not taking apart.
|
instead of limiting koreans why not have player history during breaks and instead of limiting koreans, beating them? Honestly what type of gamer is one who is happy keeping out the best only to have comfortable wins. Making sc2 better means bringing together, not taking apart.
|
On August 02 2011 06:49 awu25 wrote:
How is #2 a criticism that they can fix?
The Korean thing is your own opinion. I'd rather watch the best players duke it out. Besides what's the point of bringing Koreans over if you're not going to put them up on the stage. You can go to any other US events and see foreigners. When are you going to travel to Korea to meet the Korean progamers?
#3: It's a spectator pass, you go there to watch. I don't think anyone has any other expectations besides watching games and catch a glimpse of their favorite players
And there have been a lot of posts about fire hazards, which is why the # of chairs aren't increased
There was a ton to do for fps gamers. There was a FFA tournament, there were setups for testing equipment, trying new games, etc. There was 1 starcraft computer open to people and you had to bring your own mouse and keyboard to play it.
|
Also, I agree with the chairs still even though I don't agree with you on the koreans part. I don't care if it's a fire hazard, things NEED to be changed so that people aren't forced to stand for 10 hours 3 days straight. The idea of reserving a seat when there's that many people is just stupid and it would be better for EVERYONE if you weren't allowed to do that. Then at least the people with seats aren't forced to camp it all day long and can move around, and people who have been standing can get a shot at sitting. Sharing isn't so bad is it?
Also, if they can't even support that, limit the amount of spectators getting into the event then or make some sort of pass that gives you better seating. I'd pay for it.
|
DEY TOOK AR JOBS , I think it is awesome Koreans are coming to the land of opportunity to steal some prize money. After all we have members that go to gsl. DEY TOOK ARR JOBS!
|
On August 02 2011 06:42 TheGlassface wrote:
If you want the world to get in on esports, they get to play.
If you want a fair and competitive game, they get to play.
It's not wrong of them to win and just because you don't care to learn their culture or their language, doesn't make them unable to tell a "story." What you seem to want is wrestling. English only at that.
He was talking more about entertainment value than fairness. And it's true, watching 6 koreans battle it out for first in southern california is not as fun as watching say, Huk vs IdrA battle it out for first. Remember how big the TSL3 was?
And when you say "you don't care to learn their culture," who exactly do you think you are? Are you a korean culture expert or something? Or maybe you just think that because you watch the GSL at 2am that you're a cool kid? The OP is completely right, we foreigners (even GSL watchers) don't know a ton of stories and thus it's less interesting to watch.
It's not a "koreans are OP" issue, it's just how much vested interest the audience has. If you like football but don't specifically follow the rams or the raiders, then you don't want to watch St. Louis play the Panthers, they would rather watch their favorite team play their rival (think Dallas vs New York or Green Bay vs Minnesota).
|
I was also at the event.
1. God yes. More chairs please.
2. Well, I was super happy. This is a competition, not an exhibition. Personally I loved watching MVP play his genial terran style, especially when I got to watch him from 10 feet away in first person at stages 1 and 2. If fans can't appreciate stellar play, then they shouldn't be fans of the sport in the first place. Deal with it.
3. Yes... more computers to allow fans to play matches against each other would also be good. However, in my opinion, they could just expand the first person viewer areas of stages 1 and 2. Appreciating the insane mechanics and game sense of Korean first person play was the best part of the event for me.
4. Honestly I preferred to watch my favorite players play on stages 1 and 2, not the main stage. Sure the main stage might be more "hype," but stages 1 and 2 were the real meat of the event. I'm glad that they limited terrible foreigner matches shown for hype like Idra vs Cruncher to a minimum.
5. Yes yes yes.
6. There's stages 1 and 2, but they need to be much bigger.
7. God yes.
8. Fans were good, but very fickle. The fact that DRG and MMA had more cheers than MVP, who is a much better player, kind of made me disappointed in the SC2 foreigner community.
9. People will learn more about the awesomeness of MVP and his ilk when they are exposed to them, like they were at MLG. If they decide they don't like it, then I don't want them to be fans of the sport in the first place.
10. Impossible. With the integration of Korean and foreigner teams like FXO-fOu, this is never going to happen. I'm glad that people like you aren't in charge of these events if you believe that. There might be the vocal minority of fans (especially the loud "bros" at the event who only cheer for foreigners) who don't appreciate the best play, but many more do.
|
On August 02 2011 06:47 Moonling wrote:
How bout instead of excluding Koreans. Foreigners get better and actually start practicing so we can see some high level "white vs Korean" games. That would make it a lot better than dumming down the competition imo
The problem isn't that they are korean, it's that the progaming environment and culture is huge in korea so it fosters a high number of high level players who are constantly pushing each other to improve. The huk vs sjow match is an example. It was a joke. Huk completely dominated sjow without even trying. He even made a TL out of pylons in the middle of the match it was such a joke. The level of difference between korean training and non-korean training is stupid.
Previously I would say "Foreigners need to practice more", but the problem is that you can only get as good as the players you are playing against. To really improve you need to be playing against a large number of players who are at the same skill if not higher than you. When naniwa gets full korean training I fully expect him to become more of a beast than he already is.
Unless sc2 gets more popular with the younger generation, then foreign sc2 will always remain lackluster in comparison, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy it. Many countries in the world have their own football league and they root hard for their teams. Imagine if the MLS did an exchange program with Premier League. The best MLS team will compete in next years premier league while a random, possibly terrible premier team gets to compete in MLS. Guess who would win?
That's just how it is and it will only grow worse over time.
|
On August 02 2011 07:00 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:47 Moonling wrote:
How bout instead of excluding Koreans. Foreigners get better and actually start practicing so we can see some high level "white vs Korean" games. That would make it a lot better than dumming down the competition imo The problem isn't that they are korean, it's that the progaming environment and culture is huge in korea so it fosters a high number of high level players who are constantly pushing each other to improve. The huk vs sjow match is an example. It was a joke. Huk completely dominated sjow without even trying. He even made a TL out of pylons in the middle of the match it was such a joke. The level of difference between korean training and non-korean training is stupid. Previously I would say "Foreigners need to practice more", but the problem is that you can only get as good as the players you are playing against. To really improve you need to be playing against a large number of players who are at the same skill if not higher than you. When naniwa gets full korean training I fully expect him to become more of a beast than he already is. Unless sc2 gets more popular with the younger generation, then foreign sc2 will always remain lackluster in comparison, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy it. Many countries in the world have their own football league and they root hard for their teams. Imagine if the MLS did an exchange program with Premier League. The best MLS team will compete in next years premier league while a random, possibly terrible premier team gets to compete in MLS. Guess who would win? That's just how it is and it will only grow worse over time.
So more foreigners need to prove they're serious about their careers and go to Korea to train. It's a joke that the EG players get the salary they do and are this pathetic.
|
On August 02 2011 06:42 TheGlassface wrote:
I love how since BW days, Koreans are given this mystique and then there's some underlying pseudo-racism going on about them and how they shouldn't be involved. All because they put out results...
If you want the world to get in on esports, they get to play.
If you want a fair and competitive game, they get to play.
It's not wrong of them to win and just because you don't care to learn their culture or their language, doesn't make them unable to tell a "story." What you seem to want is wrestling. English only at that.
Seriously, I've seen it since I've been here. It's so damn funny to see.
Just because ol' whitey can't hack it doesn't mean they should get burnt.
Going so strong until you had to throw in the racial slur. Even if you are white, cut it out.
|
On August 02 2011 06:58 Kraznaya wrote:
I was also at the event.
1. God yes. More chairs please.
2. Well, I was super happy. This is a competition, not an exhibition. Personally I loved watching MVP play his genial terran style, especially when I got to watch him from 10 feet away in first person at stages 1 and 2. If fans can't appreciate stellar play, then they shouldn't be fans of the sport in the first place. Deal with it.
3. Yes... more computers to allow fans to play matches against each other would also be good. However, in my opinion, they could just expand the first person viewer areas of stages 1 and 2. Appreciating the insane mechanics and game sense of Korean first person play was the best part of the event for me.
4. Honestly I preferred to watch my favorite players play on stages 1 and 2, not the main stage. Sure the main stage might be more "hype," but stages 1 and 2 were the real meat of the event. I'm glad that they limited terrible foreigner matches shown for hype like Idra vs Cruncher to a minimum.
5. Yes yes yes.
6. There's stages 1 and 2, but they need to be much bigger.
7. God yes.
8. Fans were good, but very fickle. The fact that DRG and MMA had more cheers than MVP, who is a much better player, kind of made me disappointed in the SC2 foreigner community.
9. People will learn more about the awesomeness of MVP and his ilk when they are exposed to them, like they were at MLG. If they decide they don't like it, then I don't want them to be fans of the sport in the first place.
10. Impossible. With the integration of Korean and foreigner teams like FXO-fOu, this is never going to happen. I'm glad that people like you aren't in charge of these events if you believe that. There might be the vocal minority of fans (especially the loud "bros" at the event who only cheer for foreigners) who don't appreciate the best play, but many more do.
Hmm you make an interesting point there. Now I have to think more. That's the best response so far. I totally forgot about the team integration.
|
If I want to see a non-Korean tournament, I go and watch Go4Sc2, Zotac, Gigabyte Cup & the likes of it. I would not watch MLG if there would be no Koreans and I guess a lot of other fans and players wouldn't as well.
The most interesting thing by FAR is how the foreigners will fare against the Korean players.
|
10. Limit the # of koreans in pool play to 4. I would almost say no koreans but people were cheering hard for boxer and donraegu, but almost no one was cheering for MVP. Yes, you might want to see the BEST players in the world, but as fans, I want to see the best players I know that can create a storyline. Imagine if the finals were idra vs boxer or huk vs naniwa or white-ra vs anyone. It would have been a much better atmosphere. A lot of people left when the foreginers all got knocked out too and the players seemed hopeless when playing them. A starcraft 2 tournament should be stressful yes, but it got to the point where it didn't look like the foreigners were enjoying the koreans winning everything. Maybe at columbus, when introducing koreans for the first time, it was enjoyable, but when korean take top 6, it's totally different.
there were 4 koreans in pool play. 2 just came from open bracket. Are you really gonna stop koreans from going to MLG through open bracket? I mean, they're just same as the local players, in terms of having to play millions of games.
|
On August 02 2011 07:03 mTw|NarutO wrote:
If I want to see a non-Korean tournament, I go and watch Go4Sc2, Zotac, Gigabyte Cup & the likes of it. I would not watch MLG if there would be no Koreans and I guess a lot of other fans and players wouldn't as well.
The most interesting thing by FAR is how the foreigners will fare against the Korean players.
No I didn't say "no koreans" I said "less koreans". I think choosing koreans based on their popularity would be better than choosing them based on their skill. MVP completely decimated TvT and it was boring to watch. Remember this is a fan's perspective. If I was a competitor I would probably think otherwise.
|
On August 02 2011 07:02 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:42 TheGlassface wrote:
I love how since BW days, Koreans are given this mystique and then there's some underlying pseudo-racism going on about them and how they shouldn't be involved. All because they put out results...
If you want the world to get in on esports, they get to play.
If you want a fair and competitive game, they get to play.
It's not wrong of them to win and just because you don't care to learn their culture or their language, doesn't make them unable to tell a "story." What you seem to want is wrestling. English only at that.
Seriously, I've seen it since I've been here. It's so damn funny to see.
Just because ol' whitey can't hack it doesn't mean they should get burnt.
Going so strong until you had to throw in the racial slur. Even if you are white, cut it out.
Relax there Kangaroo Jack.
|
I agree 100% about showing the foreigners games... I was really excited to get to watch huk play again, and I ended up only seeing 2 series.
|
On August 02 2011 07:09 Yamulo wrote:
I agree 100% about showing the foreigners games... I was really excited to get to watch huk play again, and I ended up only seeing 2 series.
Definitely. The loudest cheers were by far for idra vs boxer, huk vs donrague, and white-ra vs drewbie.
|
here are the reasons why MVP got less cheers than MMA and DRG
MVP hasn't won anything since 4/9/2011 when he won the GSL World Championship and he hasn't had a deep run in a GSL since then, so that is almost a 4 month period of not producing any good results.
MMA won the last MLG and placed second in the GSL Super Tournament which occurred 6/8/2011. so he's obviously going to get more hype due to producing more recent results.
DRG has been coming through for his team as the ace player in GSTL. he won LG Cinema 3D tournament on 6/18/2011. he's been hyped as won of the best Zergs in Korea despite his Code B status.
basically the hype around MVP has had 4 months to simmer down while the hype around DRG & MMA is more of a boil.
|
On August 02 2011 07:19 udgnim wrote:
here are the reasons why MVP got less cheers than MMA and DRG
MVP hasn't won anything since 4/9/2011 when he won the GSL World Championship and he hasn't had a deep run in a GSL since then, so that is almost a 4 month period of not producing any good results.
MMA won the last MLG and placed second in the GSL Super Tournament which occurred 6/8/2011. so he's obviously going to get more hype due to producing more recent results.
DRG has been coming through for his team as the ace player in GSTL. he won LG Cinema 3D tournament on 6/18/2011. he's been hyped as won of the best Zergs in Korea despite his Code B status.
basically the hype around MVP has had 4 months to simmer down while the hype around DRG & MMA is more of a boil.
Don't forget the fact that QXC beat him in GSTL. That kinda took away from the mystique that these players tend to hold.
|
Just because you don't know the players don't mean you should exclude them. I know who Boxer or MMA or MVP is. I feel bad for MVP because people wanted MMA or Boxer to win simply because it would make for a better storyline. The returning champion defends his title? AWESOME. The BW legend reclaims his throne? AWESOME. While those potential storylines are great, I was happy for MVP for claiming yet another title and destroying his competition. Now as expected, most people who don't know who these players are aren't dedicated enough to want to pay to see GSL. Then again I see plenty of Korean replays being commented on Youtube.
Yes, Huk is a favorite compared to Ganzi, but he won fair and square. Guess it can't be called a sport if you don't have fans that lose interest when their favorite teams are knocked out of the playoffs. I don't think you can do anything about that.
The whole fairness about inserting Koreans into pool play is a totally different discussion entirely. I won't touch that.
And I totally understand that not everyone will be 100% in tune with the hardcore community that knows all the players and tournaments.
COD... yeah, I feel bad for those players. I know what it's like to have a competitive community that's tiny compared to the player base. Even the play area was sparse.
And yes, MOAR CHAIRS PLZ. Holy shit, I only attended maybe half the event because I got fatigued and went somewhere else to chill. I don't care if all there is to do is watch. That's what I came for. But when the delays between matches are soooo long I would expect more to do too. Maybe free-play areas where you can play some SC2. My friend brought his PS3 controller to play some COD. There was 1 area at the Alienware hummer and 2 laptops at the Dr Pepper booth. They could add a small play area. I doubt this will happen though. I'd rather they minimize the downtime.
I need to stress MOAR CHAIRS and LESS DOWNTIME.
|
On August 02 2011 07:23 Dubzex wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 07:19 udgnim wrote:
here are the reasons why MVP got less cheers than MMA and DRG
MVP hasn't won anything since 4/9/2011 when he won the GSL World Championship and he hasn't had a deep run in a GSL since then, so that is almost a 4 month period of not producing any good results.
MMA won the last MLG and placed second in the GSL Super Tournament which occurred 6/8/2011. so he's obviously going to get more hype due to producing more recent results.
DRG has been coming through for his team as the ace player in GSTL. he won LG Cinema 3D tournament on 6/18/2011. he's been hyped as won of the best Zergs in Korea despite his Code B status.
basically the hype around MVP has had 4 months to simmer down while the hype around DRG & MMA is more of a boil. Don't forget the fact that QXC beat him in GSTL. That kinda took away from the mystique that these players tend to hold.
As per the OP, the problem is that people don't really know at all who MVP is. That he dropped a game to a foreigner should actually help him, not hurt him - at least he's a face and a name to the few people who follow the foreigner scene enough to know qxc but not MVP.
The "korean mystique" is the problem - they are just faceless strong players, without the language skills or reputation in the foreigner scene to create the drama that really gets people caring about everything.
|
On August 02 2011 07:09 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 07:03 mTw|NarutO wrote:
If I want to see a non-Korean tournament, I go and watch Go4Sc2, Zotac, Gigabyte Cup & the likes of it. I would not watch MLG if there would be no Koreans and I guess a lot of other fans and players wouldn't as well.
The most interesting thing by FAR is how the foreigners will fare against the Korean players. No I didn't say "no koreans" I said "less koreans". I think choosing koreans based on their popularity would be better than choosing them based on their skill. MVP completely decimated TvT and it was boring to watch. Remember this is a fan's perspective. If I was a competitor I would probably think otherwise.
I disagree. MVP didn't completely decimated TvT and was actually behind against BoxeR in game 1 but BoxeR made a mistake and gave the game away due to sloppyness and false decisions. I actually would prefer to have more Koreans just because most of the players (the top ones) want to compete with the best.
Do you think Huk or Naniwa would be satisfied with a win if they knew the competition wasn't really there? They WANT to beat those super strong players.... so, just no. If the Koreans are better, get more of them to the tourneys and make foreigners step up their game.
|
A lot of your criticism is really silly.
They couldn't bring more chairs in they reached the safety max.
If you go to a MLG event to watch Starcraft then you're probably going to watch Starcraft, should of brought your own entertainment outside of interacting with people.
If you're going to complain about foreigners losing then that's their fault what are MLG supposed to do?
"Well Mr Korean seeing as your so good we've decided that you should play 1-0 down"
There's some legitimate whine but a lot of pointless.
Also limit the Koreans allowed in pool play to 4? You want to PUNISH them for being BETTER than everyone else?
|
On August 02 2011 07:27 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 07:23 Dubzex wrote:On August 02 2011 07:19 udgnim wrote:
here are the reasons why MVP got less cheers than MMA and DRG
MVP hasn't won anything since 4/9/2011 when he won the GSL World Championship and he hasn't had a deep run in a GSL since then, so that is almost a 4 month period of not producing any good results.
MMA won the last MLG and placed second in the GSL Super Tournament which occurred 6/8/2011. so he's obviously going to get more hype due to producing more recent results.
DRG has been coming through for his team as the ace player in GSTL. he won LG Cinema 3D tournament on 6/18/2011. he's been hyped as won of the best Zergs in Korea despite his Code B status.
basically the hype around MVP has had 4 months to simmer down while the hype around DRG & MMA is more of a boil. Don't forget the fact that QXC beat him in GSTL. That kinda took away from the mystique that these players tend to hold. As per the OP, the problem is that people don't really know at all who MVP is. That he dropped a game to a foreigner should actually help him, not hurt him - at least he's a face and a name to the few people who follow the foreigner scene enough to know qxc but not MVP. The "korean mystique" is the problem - they are just faceless strong players, without the language skills or reputation in the foreigner scene to create the drama that really gets people caring about everything.
That's not true at all I think. How do people not know who a 2 time GSL winner is? I don't know why, but MVP has never gotten that much attention. Even at the GSL finals against MKP, MKP had many more fans even though MVP was by far the superior player in every aspect.
If I had to guess I think it would be because he lacks the charisma of MC, and he isn't sort of the "zerg hope" like nestea is since there are so many koreans. I don't really know why MMA got more fans, but it probably has to do with being the son of boxer.
|
In response to the idea of limiting the # of Koreans, 4 random thoughts:
1) Who would sponsor that?
Deviating in any way from "may the best gamer win" would be counter to the incentives companies have to sponsor such a tournament, and it would also... gah I'm going to say it: + Show Spoiler +. My impression is that sponsors are mostly investing in this as kind of a massive advertisement. It would be shortsighted and alienating to apply limits to some players and not to others, just because of what pleases the crowd that attends. Attendees are such a small part of the group they expect to reach by doing this, and they are bound to be largely locals, which makes their preferences an even less representative sample of what's "popular".
2) Who would cheer for that?
Why do you like seeing your favorite player win? I like seeing my favorite player win because it means they're the best, and I'm proud of them! If my favorite player won just because they weren't facing the best opponents, that would take most of the fun and pride out of it for me, as a fan. Maybe people weren't cheering for the Koreans as much, but that doesn't mean that they'd have cheered for seeing their favorite players get an unfair advantage. Sports fans can sometimes have a sense of sportsmanship also!
3) Who would play in that?
Gamers are trying to build their careers and reputations by winning titles that mean something. As in, "I am the 6th best player in the world! These are my credentials." Once the tournament trophies don't really mean "best", they become less meaningful. The prize pool would need to get a LOT bigger in order for it to remain worthwhile for career-gamers to practice for and compete in such a tournament. Which gets us back to #1: Who would sponsor that?
4) Solution?
If fans want to see their favorite players play each other, maybe they could start a fundraiser to invest in that show match themselves. There could be a profit in that, but I suspect it would require a lot of initial $$$$$ to get the ball rolling. After all, the main attraction to players would be the money, and not prestige.
But still, in my opinion, creating a competition which is essentially a popularity contest does little (if anything) to foster, inspire, or promote talent. It may not be actively + Show Spoiler + but spending that money on a purely talent based competition would probably do more to help the cause. Or, as some might say, + Show Spoiler +. But who knows. I'm not a businessperson, myself.
|
On August 02 2011 07:47 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 07:27 cz wrote:On August 02 2011 07:23 Dubzex wrote:On August 02 2011 07:19 udgnim wrote:
here are the reasons why MVP got less cheers than MMA and DRG
MVP hasn't won anything since 4/9/2011 when he won the GSL World Championship and he hasn't had a deep run in a GSL since then, so that is almost a 4 month period of not producing any good results.
MMA won the last MLG and placed second in the GSL Super Tournament which occurred 6/8/2011. so he's obviously going to get more hype due to producing more recent results.
DRG has been coming through for his team as the ace player in GSTL. he won LG Cinema 3D tournament on 6/18/2011. he's been hyped as won of the best Zergs in Korea despite his Code B status.
basically the hype around MVP has had 4 months to simmer down while the hype around DRG & MMA is more of a boil. Don't forget the fact that QXC beat him in GSTL. That kinda took away from the mystique that these players tend to hold. As per the OP, the problem is that people don't really know at all who MVP is. That he dropped a game to a foreigner should actually help him, not hurt him - at least he's a face and a name to the few people who follow the foreigner scene enough to know qxc but not MVP. The "korean mystique" is the problem - they are just faceless strong players, without the language skills or reputation in the foreigner scene to create the drama that really gets people caring about everything. That's not true at all I think. How do people not know who a 2 time GSL winner is? I don't know why, but MVP has never gotten that much attention. Even at the GSL finals against MKP, MKP had many more fans even though MVP was by far the superior player in every aspect. If I had to guess I think it would be because he lacks the charisma of MC, and he isn't sort of the "zerg hope" like nestea is since there are so many koreans. I don't really know why MMA got more fans, but it probably has to do with being the son of boxer.
Read the OP from the guy who was there and talking to people around him in the stands - the people there are not big SC2 fans for the most part, they probably don't even know what the GSL is. There are hardcore teamliquid-type people out there, but they are the minority, not the majority. I wasn't there but I'm getting the feeling that the majority of fans don't know much at all - they probably came because they have a friend who wanted to go or something, and they know a bit about esports such as who boxer is and maybe who won the last MLG, but that seems to be about it.
From the OP
Most people know very little about sc2 at all and barely keep up with the scene, but they still watch it. The majority of people here on tl know who mvp is, etc, but the majority there don't. If it's truly going to go mainstream, this needs to change.
|
Isn't koreans in pool play already 4? The other ones come to mlg on their own you can't ban korean players from participating in open bracket if they bought the tickets that is just racist. As of now I'm not excited watching idra vs X . He lost a step in his skills after coming back to US. Look at his recent results he is just not losing to every korean players he faced but also losing to other top foreigners now.
|
illsick
United States1770 Posts
I like MVP but the crowd favorite had more to do with people wanting boxer and boxer's protege or even DRG a zerg that has been very hyped by preforming well in the GSTL to win. There was much more on the line for these 3 aswell, MVP already had a code-s spot. But I enjoyed MVP's consistent and high level play so I thought this MLG was pretty good.
I think the Korean invites are what boosted MLG's attendance and hype. The foreigners don't have a lot of chances to play with the Koreans so it's a great exchange program to see how they perform against each other; or I guess if Koreans can be beat. If HuK won with the Koreans present it would have been great but if HuK won without them then it wouldn't be as great.
|
On August 02 2011 08:01 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 07:47 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 02 2011 07:27 cz wrote:On August 02 2011 07:23 Dubzex wrote:On August 02 2011 07:19 udgnim wrote:
here are the reasons why MVP got less cheers than MMA and DRG
MVP hasn't won anything since 4/9/2011 when he won the GSL World Championship and he hasn't had a deep run in a GSL since then, so that is almost a 4 month period of not producing any good results.
MMA won the last MLG and placed second in the GSL Super Tournament which occurred 6/8/2011. so he's obviously going to get more hype due to producing more recent results.
DRG has been coming through for his team as the ace player in GSTL. he won LG Cinema 3D tournament on 6/18/2011. he's been hyped as won of the best Zergs in Korea despite his Code B status.
basically the hype around MVP has had 4 months to simmer down while the hype around DRG & MMA is more of a boil. Don't forget the fact that QXC beat him in GSTL. That kinda took away from the mystique that these players tend to hold. As per the OP, the problem is that people don't really know at all who MVP is. That he dropped a game to a foreigner should actually help him, not hurt him - at least he's a face and a name to the few people who follow the foreigner scene enough to know qxc but not MVP. The "korean mystique" is the problem - they are just faceless strong players, without the language skills or reputation in the foreigner scene to create the drama that really gets people caring about everything. That's not true at all I think. How do people not know who a 2 time GSL winner is? I don't know why, but MVP has never gotten that much attention. Even at the GSL finals against MKP, MKP had many more fans even though MVP was by far the superior player in every aspect. If I had to guess I think it would be because he lacks the charisma of MC, and he isn't sort of the "zerg hope" like nestea is since there are so many koreans. I don't really know why MMA got more fans, but it probably has to do with being the son of boxer. Read the OP from the guy who was there and talking to people around him in the stands - the people there are not big SC2 fans for the most part, they probably don't even know what the GSL is. There are hardcore teamliquid-type people out there, but they are the minority, not the majority. I wasn't there but I'm getting the feeling that the majority of fans don't know much at all - they probably came because they have a friend who wanted to go or something, and they know a bit about esports such as who boxer is and maybe who won the last MLG, but that seems to be about it. From the OP Show nested quote +Most people know very little about sc2 at all and barely keep up with the scene, but they still watch it. The majority of people here on tl know who mvp is, etc, but the majority there don't. If it's truly going to go mainstream, this needs to change.
I would say like 90% know who day9 is, 75% know husky, and maybe 20% knew who MVP was.
|
Did I mention that there weren't enough chairs? Seriously. I will never go to another mlg event unless they have more chairs.
Lol still? I guess MLG's mostly talk and not a lot of action. They've been saying they'll bring more chairs every MLG. (granted, the fact that they've been saying it every MLG probably should've clued me in)
|
On August 02 2011 06:35 darmousseh wrote:
9. The majority of people here on tl know who mvp is, etc, but the majority there don't. If it's truly going to go mainstream, this needs to change.
10. Limit the # of koreans in pool play to 4. I would almost say no koreans but people were cheering hard for boxer and donraegu, but almost no one was cheering for MVP. Yes, you might want to see the BEST players in the world, but as fans, I want to see the best players I know that can create a storyline.
Seems like you should take your own advice about learning more about the players. Personally, I want to see the best of the best compete. Foreigners should step their game up. I don't want to watch sub-optimal play just because there is some rivalry/drama. Also, by having Koreans in the tournament, it makes it more epic when a foreigner does well. If a foreigner wins a tournament but doesn't have to beat any Koreans, it just doesn't feel like a real win to me. That's what made HuKs wins at DH and HSC so amazing. He had to take down top Koreans to win it all.
|
10. Limit the # of koreans in pool play to 4.
Uhh... MLG only invites 4 Koreans from GSL through the LXP event each time. Ganzi and Rain both earned their way in pool play through the open bracket. Moonan and SelecT have been to several MLGs before and earned their place in pool play from their rank points.
|
On August 02 2011 08:14 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 08:01 cz wrote:On August 02 2011 07:47 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 02 2011 07:27 cz wrote:On August 02 2011 07:23 Dubzex wrote:On August 02 2011 07:19 udgnim wrote:
here are the reasons why MVP got less cheers than MMA and DRG
MVP hasn't won anything since 4/9/2011 when he won the GSL World Championship and he hasn't had a deep run in a GSL since then, so that is almost a 4 month period of not producing any good results.
MMA won the last MLG and placed second in the GSL Super Tournament which occurred 6/8/2011. so he's obviously going to get more hype due to producing more recent results.
DRG has been coming through for his team as the ace player in GSTL. he won LG Cinema 3D tournament on 6/18/2011. he's been hyped as won of the best Zergs in Korea despite his Code B status.
basically the hype around MVP has had 4 months to simmer down while the hype around DRG & MMA is more of a boil. Don't forget the fact that QXC beat him in GSTL. That kinda took away from the mystique that these players tend to hold. As per the OP, the problem is that people don't really know at all who MVP is. That he dropped a game to a foreigner should actually help him, not hurt him - at least he's a face and a name to the few people who follow the foreigner scene enough to know qxc but not MVP. The "korean mystique" is the problem - they are just faceless strong players, without the language skills or reputation in the foreigner scene to create the drama that really gets people caring about everything. That's not true at all I think. How do people not know who a 2 time GSL winner is? I don't know why, but MVP has never gotten that much attention. Even at the GSL finals against MKP, MKP had many more fans even though MVP was by far the superior player in every aspect. If I had to guess I think it would be because he lacks the charisma of MC, and he isn't sort of the "zerg hope" like nestea is since there are so many koreans. I don't really know why MMA got more fans, but it probably has to do with being the son of boxer. Read the OP from the guy who was there and talking to people around him in the stands - the people there are not big SC2 fans for the most part, they probably don't even know what the GSL is. There are hardcore teamliquid-type people out there, but they are the minority, not the majority. I wasn't there but I'm getting the feeling that the majority of fans don't know much at all - they probably came because they have a friend who wanted to go or something, and they know a bit about esports such as who boxer is and maybe who won the last MLG, but that seems to be about it. From the OP Most people know very little about sc2 at all and barely keep up with the scene, but they still watch it. The majority of people here on tl know who mvp is, etc, but the majority there don't. If it's truly going to go mainstream, this needs to change. I would say like 90% know who day9 is, 75% know husky, and maybe 20% knew who MVP was.
Now, 90% know who MVP is.
It'll probably be the same when Bomber goes to Raleigh and stomps everyone (except MVP) - no one knows who he is, but they'll know when it's over. Honestly, this isn't an issue. It probably has more to do with them being Terrans than anything else.
|
This tournament needs someone with personality like MC who knows how to get the audience going. He was responsible for like 1/2 of the drama/excitement in last MLG. I hope they invite him to the next MLG.
The thing is people want koreans there because they want to see foreigners win against koreans. However it always ends up with the koreans crushing face and then the foreign fans get disappointed. Regrettably I saw basically no improvement in the quality of play from foreigners this mlg. The Koreans are pulling so far ahead in terms of skill making the games appear so one-sided. The only person not of non-korean decent that stood a chance was Huk and to a much lesser extent, Naniwa.
|
I agree will all of the opinions in this thread, even on varying sides! You guys all have a point 
There needs to be more dang chairs, and I definitely think having two stages would be even more amazing: win-win for the spectators and the organizers :D
|
This OP just solidifies my stereotypical view of American sc2 fans tbh. Pretty shameful stuff, no idea why you'd want to air those kinds of opinions on a public forum.
|
On August 02 2011 08:14 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 08:01 cz wrote:On August 02 2011 07:47 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 02 2011 07:27 cz wrote:On August 02 2011 07:23 Dubzex wrote:On August 02 2011 07:19 udgnim wrote:
here are the reasons why MVP got less cheers than MMA and DRG
MVP hasn't won anything since 4/9/2011 when he won the GSL World Championship and he hasn't had a deep run in a GSL since then, so that is almost a 4 month period of not producing any good results.
MMA won the last MLG and placed second in the GSL Super Tournament which occurred 6/8/2011. so he's obviously going to get more hype due to producing more recent results.
DRG has been coming through for his team as the ace player in GSTL. he won LG Cinema 3D tournament on 6/18/2011. he's been hyped as won of the best Zergs in Korea despite his Code B status.
basically the hype around MVP has had 4 months to simmer down while the hype around DRG & MMA is more of a boil. Don't forget the fact that QXC beat him in GSTL. That kinda took away from the mystique that these players tend to hold. As per the OP, the problem is that people don't really know at all who MVP is. That he dropped a game to a foreigner should actually help him, not hurt him - at least he's a face and a name to the few people who follow the foreigner scene enough to know qxc but not MVP. The "korean mystique" is the problem - they are just faceless strong players, without the language skills or reputation in the foreigner scene to create the drama that really gets people caring about everything. That's not true at all I think. How do people not know who a 2 time GSL winner is? I don't know why, but MVP has never gotten that much attention. Even at the GSL finals against MKP, MKP had many more fans even though MVP was by far the superior player in every aspect. If I had to guess I think it would be because he lacks the charisma of MC, and he isn't sort of the "zerg hope" like nestea is since there are so many koreans. I don't really know why MMA got more fans, but it probably has to do with being the son of boxer. Read the OP from the guy who was there and talking to people around him in the stands - the people there are not big SC2 fans for the most part, they probably don't even know what the GSL is. There are hardcore teamliquid-type people out there, but they are the minority, not the majority. I wasn't there but I'm getting the feeling that the majority of fans don't know much at all - they probably came because they have a friend who wanted to go or something, and they know a bit about esports such as who boxer is and maybe who won the last MLG, but that seems to be about it. From the OP Most people know very little about sc2 at all and barely keep up with the scene, but they still watch it. The majority of people here on tl know who mvp is, etc, but the majority there don't. If it's truly going to go mainstream, this needs to change. I would say like 90% know who day9 is, 75% know husky, and maybe 20% knew who MVP was.
If this was true, it's sad.
I wouldn't call those people sc2 fans who are knowledgable in pro sc2.
That's like saying, "hey guys, I love basketball and I'm a huge basketball fan. I came to watch some basketball. ummm Lebron who? who is this Kobe Bryant guy?"
|
You can't just take out the Korean pro gamers just because there is a skill difference.. I mean look at game 2 between MMA and MVP. Holy shit. I was thinking when the hell NA TvT will be insane, back and forth like that?
Foreigners just need to play, practice more and harder. If you ever follow ST_Rainbow, who was runner up 1st GSL but hasn't produced any results, the guy literally plays 24/7. So obviously Koreans's practice regime is entirely different. They actually view it as their professions, how they make money and they're serious.
|
some of those korean like ganzi and rain came from open brackets. so we should block koreans that comes from open bracket now??
|
i think you got a valid point when our players go to Korea they get put in Code A NOT Code S yet here we are just putting them directly into our equilavent in MLG to Code S!!!!!
I also stopped watching or playing attention when Nani and HuK got knocked out, it kinda got boring to me!!!
|
On August 02 2011 17:38 Tommylew wrote:
i think you got a valid point when our players go to Korea they get put in Code A NOT Code S yet here we are just putting them directly into our equilavent in MLG to Code S!!!!!
I also stopped watching or playing attention when Nani and HuK got knocked out, it kinda got boring to me!!!
This is because GSL is a much higher caliber tournament than MLG. Getting seeded into code S just wouldn't be fair. If you compare the open bracket and the code A preliminaries they aren't even close in terms of difficulty. If you get placed into code S you automatically get 1.5k, and you're competing for around 50k, while in pool play you're not guaranteed anything. Getting a code A spot when you placed like 15th in MLG is pretty generous.
|
On August 02 2011 06:56 galtdunn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:42 TheGlassface wrote:
If you want the world to get in on esports, they get to play.
If you want a fair and competitive game, they get to play.
It's not wrong of them to win and just because you don't care to learn their culture or their language, doesn't make them unable to tell a "story." What you seem to want is wrestling. English only at that.
He was talking more about entertainment value than fairness. And it's true, watching 6 koreans battle it out for first in southern california is not as fun as watching say, Huk vs IdrA battle it out for first. Remember how big the TSL3 was? And when you say "you don't care to learn their culture," who exactly do you think you are? Are you a korean culture expert or something? Or maybe you just think that because you watch the GSL at 2am that you're a cool kid? The OP is completely right, we foreigners (even GSL watchers) don't know a ton of stories and thus it's less interesting to watch. It's not a "koreans are OP" issue, it's just how much vested interest the audience has. If you like football but don't specifically follow the rams or the raiders, then you don't want to watch St. Louis play the Panthers, they would rather watch their favorite team play their rival (think Dallas vs New York or Green Bay vs Minnesota).
lmao. I don't even watch SCII.
I just think it's ridiculous to exclude an entire group of people. Especialy because of something arbitrary like "story."
You just don't know the people because you don't speak the language and then because it's hard to understand, shove them under a bus and say "stop beating us, it's for the good of entertainment!" Which is asinine since it's all opinionated at that point anyway. What I say is more entertaining is not what you say is not what he says...etc....etc...
I like how you decide to try and stereotype me though, that was nice and it showed some good restraint. Well played. Next time you reply, don't put words in my mouth, thanks.
Actually, in sports, I like to watch the best of the best play. My sport is BW, my team is SKT but even then I usually just look for games with my key players regardless of if it's OZ or Khan or what have you. I like these players based off their SKILL.I haven't followed anything closely ever otherwise. I watch hockey and rugby and sometimes soccer. I watch them for the game. I don't care who is playing, as I am not vested there.
So, now we get to the meat of the issue. Is the audience there for a player and "story" or are they there to see a true test of skill and game?
|
I didn't attend MLG personally, but I can see from the OP and the replies that the event could be improved in many ways.
While I agree with increasing # of seats (this is kind of basic), I don't agree with excluding Koreans just because they're crushing their non-Korean opponents. It'll be a test of time and willpower for "foreigners" to catch up - for now, the best way seems to be for those foreigners to join Korean teams and practice alongside others. I also read that EG started up their own practice house, so the initiatives are there and steps are being taken.
One thing I'd like the SC2 part for MLG to add are event-based games. Perhaps there was too much focus on just straight-up tournament and not enough "casual fun" for less hardcore fans? If the venue is to entertain and advertise the game as a whole, I believe some NON-MELEE show-matches between the "popular" players (which could be fan-voted, for example) could add variety and excitement (micro-based UMS tournaments, for example).
|
I have to agree with your point, that english speaking players create more of a story, that again makes a lot of fans. Also the peronality of a player is what they make unique.
The most koreans need someone who translate and that is where a lot of the personality and uniqueness (hope this is the right word) goes away. Also that they always say the same: Thanks to all who cheering for me i will give my best blablabla.
its like I AM A [overline]K O R E A N[/overline] R O B O T
Boxer was the only one at last MLG I would cheer, cause he shows emotions, cause his interview was interessting.
|
Good ideas. Let's hope someone from MLG reads this.
|
5003 Posts
They literally could not have more seats at the event. They were at the maximum number of chairs they were allowed for that venue.
Although be sure, i'm sure MLG will think of something.
|
On August 03 2011 02:47 Milkis wrote:
They literally could not have more seats at the event. They were at the maximum number of chairs they were allowed for that venue.
Although be sure, i'm sure MLG will think of something.
Can benches be used to cheat the system? Ie: claim each bench sits 4 ppl but in reality it sits 6...
|
5003 Posts
On August 03 2011 03:23 Hikari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 02:47 Milkis wrote:
They literally could not have more seats at the event. They were at the maximum number of chairs they were allowed for that venue.
Although be sure, i'm sure MLG will think of something. Can benches be used to cheat the system? Ie: claim each bench sits 4 ppl but in reality it sits 6...
No idea, but I'm sure MLG is working on it.
|
8748 Posts
imo budget more floor space for events. put most of the tournament area in a different hall. have the main hall be main stages + a few featured stations + sponsor booths etc. then give players a way to walk from the regular tournament area (in the other hall) to the featured stations and main stage without having to go through fans. this gives more chairs and floor space to seat spectators rather than competitors and it gives competitors space and comfort to compete. two huge pluses for the fans, except for the small minority of fans that would rather get autographs from players than see them play well
|
On August 03 2011 02:47 Milkis wrote:
They literally could not have more seats at the event. They were at the maximum number of chairs they were allowed for that venue.
Although be sure, i'm sure MLG will think of something.
Yep. I heard some official talking to a distraught guy who was having to stand, and they said it had to do with the max amount of chairs allowed by the fire people.
|
On August 02 2011 13:39 JiSu wrote:
You can't just take out the Korean pro gamers just because there is a skill difference.. I mean look at game 2 between MMA and MVP. Holy shit. I was thinking when the hell NA TvT will be insane, back and forth like that?
Foreigners just need to play, practice more and harder. If you ever follow ST_Rainbow, who was runner up 1st GSL but hasn't produced any results, the guy literally plays 24/7. So obviously Koreans's practice regime is entirely different. They actually view it as their professions, how they make money and they're serious.
Exactly. If you want to put a limit on Koreans coming to compete you better make the entire MLG only available to American players. Forget Europe, South America, and Australia. I think the bigger problem is that they were almost all Terran =p
|
Stopping koreans from playing just because the majority of casual SC2 fans don't know them is silly. The more koreans come out to foreign events the more people that will know them. Who's to say koreans have no story to them? Master vs.Apprentice? Apprentice vs. Final Boss? How are those match-ups less exciting than Huk vs. Idra? And in terms of storyline vs watching exciting games? I'd rather marvel at near-perfect solid play than two newbies with egos and grudges.
|
I think most of these problems will get sorted out automatically over time. Personally, I believe that some of the foreigners will improve and give the Koreans some serious competition (naniwa, huk, thorzain,etc) and the MLG point system will eventually flush out the weaker players from the pool spots.
I would even argue that the system still favors NA pros. The Koreans that keep returning to the open brackets are investing a lot of travel time/money to build up MLG points for pretty low prize pools, so only the most dedicated of them will get a top seed. On the other hand, NA players don't have to invest as much to compete so it's much easier for the top NA players to collect points by placing in the top 20-30 at EVERY event and retaining a decent seed. It seems like MLG tries to mix up the 4 KR invites, so while these players are at a big advantage coming into the tournament, they are still going to have to invest in any return trips (unless they win the event). In the long run, this system acquaints the casual foreign fans to the Korean pros and globalizes the community. I don't think the criticism has to do with people being racist or hating Korean play, it's just a weird transitional period where Koreans are adapting to the international environment and are still a bit shy (and maybe a bit too Terran). Players like MC and Boxer are obviously quite popular with the MLG audiences because they have charismatic and individual personalities, which are traits that the casual fans (people who can't easily distinguish pro play from average play) tend to relate with.
|
MLG has no reason to localize their tournaments unless they want to. They've already talked about being a global company by hosting tournaments around the world. I think they focus on having the strongest players in the world at their events, which is fine. You could compare it to the olympics of gaming.
The problem people have is that it doesn't make sense to just have an olympics. There has to be a place where people compete locally. Imagine playing little league baseball and the first game you play is in a tournament that the entire world participates in and it's bo1 with a losers bracket. That just doesn't make sense. You need to have local leagues that foster community, 'create stories', etc. This local starcraft scene doesn't exist I don't think. Maybe it does somewhere though, I'm pretty ignorant about a lot of the small tournaments.
Lastly I'll just say again that MLG doesn't care about small communities of starcraft players. MLG is the olympics. NASL on the other hand could be more restrictive: it is in their name...
|
It saddens me that MVP wasn't given any cheers. It's probably because he doesn't speak english + he's not as iconic as Boxer/MMA. Also, was it true that people were booing Cruncher? That's seriously pathetic.
|
Also what tarnished the experience was probably the multitude of TvT and then top 4 all-terran. You can only watch so much of any mirror matchup.
I went to Columbus and the final matches were amazing. Losira vs MC and then MMA vs Losira. They were truly some epic games that can't be captured in a mirror match. The epic games make the event, not story lines or who plays them (ala NASL finals).
I think this is a big reason why the enthusiasm was a little lower.
|
This korean hate needs to stop. Why the hell does it matter what nationality players are to enjoy a good competitive game? These players are not representing you, they don't care about you. They are winning for themselves. Even the commentators tend to raise the voices whenever someone who is not korean performed a spectacular feat despite ultimately losing the game. If MLG or any foreign events put a limit to Koreans then I would just not watch it altogether, not because the players are foreigners but because the level of play wouldn't be the highest it can be.
|
On August 02 2011 06:45 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:42 TheGlassface wrote:
I love how since BW days, Koreans are given this mystique and then there's some underlying pseudo-racism going on about them and how they shouldn't be involved. All because they put out results...
If you want the world to get in on esports, they get to play.
If you want a fair and competitive game, they get to play.
It's not wrong of them to win and just because you don't care to learn their culture or their language, doesn't make them unable to tell a "story." What you seem to want is wrestling. English only at that.
Seriously, I've seen it since I've been here. It's so damn funny to see.
Just because ol' whitey can't hack it doesn't mean they should get burnt.
Actually I thought the exact same way you did until this weekend. Personally I love watching the koreans, but the majority of other fans didn't. I don't think removing koreans is the right idea, but giving them a headstart in pool play definitely isn't the right solution.
You know, the MLG staff might see this if you put it in their official feedback thread on these very forums?
Cue Justin Timberlake's Cry me a river.
The only ones the foreigner's have to blame is themselves.
It's amazing how times have changed. Speak for yourself then and not for the rest. You want it to grow, it has to grow naturally. You said lots of people had no idea who MVP was until today. Well, now they know.
If the Koreans decide to come back and they have enough points to make it to the group stages then they earned their spots just like the rest. MMA wasn't even going to return for Anaheim until they decided to give him one of the invites from the exchange program. Look at what happened to Alicia. He got eliminated very early and he wasn't in the groups. -_-
I want to see the best players regardless of who I'm rooting for.
|
I'm sure MLG are working on the seating problem.
As for the whole Korean thing, I'm sure mirrors had a lot to do with it.....but it kinda makes me worried that once again, Starcraft in the west isn't meant to be. Korean are going to get quite far ahead from the majority of foreigners. I can see a lot of people just not bothering with Starcraft 2 competitive scene if it approaches anything like BW esque domination by Koreans. I will stick around for sure, but people don't always want to see the very best games...they want to see players they can relate to.
It depresses me.
|
MURICA15980 Posts
So I heard FIFA is talking about banning Brazilians from future World Cups. Nobody wants to watch Brazilians. Let's get some England vs Germany instead. After all, nobody knows the mysterious Brazilians. Oh wait, actually we do. Why? Because we've learned to appreciate them. And now we get to watch and appreciate the best of the best. The same will happen with the top level Koreans.
The reality is that no matter who makes the finals, there will be a a segment of fans that are no longer interested. If DRG, MMA, and Boxer all fighting desperately for a Code-S spot was not a good enough story for you guys, I'm not sure what you really want.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
