EPTBronze to Master! in my dreams? - Page 5
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PD
Norway66 Posts
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
I have a friend who plays Terran, he started out as a bronze league player and he is now Masters. Like with many other people I just don't understand how he was able to make it and stay in Masters while there are so many other competent Terrans who are forever doomed to stay in Diamond until they can consistently stay on a winning streak against Mid Master players. I'm really happy for him for getting into Masters, really impressed as well since he started out as bronze. But looking at his mechanics and some holes in his play seriously frustrates me to no end when I'm stuck in Diamond, unable to play more than 2-3 hours each day. I don't want to blame it on my race, I believe that 90% of the reason why I can't get into Masters is due my incompetence, 9% due to bad luck, then maybe JUST MAYBE 1% is because my race has so many loose ends that I must adapt to in order to succeed. I actually want to be proven wrong btw... it is much much less frustrating when you understand why exactly you are failing. | ||
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Tedde93
Sweden169 Posts
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JouriCarver
United Kingdom59 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On July 19 2011 22:08 Snuggles wrote: It's possible as long as you don't play Zerg. I'm serious, please argue against me as to why Zerg wouldn't be a bad choice for a bronze league player who wants to become Masters in a relatively short amount of time (within a year?). Protoss and Terran are just so much more straight forward and mechanically less demanding than Zerg. Not to mention the fact that you won't have to deal with losing to oddball all-in attacks, strange timing rushes every other game that you would have playing Zerg. I have a friend who plays Terran, he started out as a bronze league player and he is now Masters. Like with many other people I just don't understand how he was able to make it and stay in Masters while there are so many other competent Terrans who are forever doomed to stay in Diamond until they can consistently stay on a winning streak against Mid Master players. I'm really happy for him for getting into Masters, really impressed as well since he started out as bronze. But looking at his mechanics and some holes in his play seriously frustrates me to no end when I'm stuck in Diamond, unable to play more than 2-3 hours each day. I don't want to blame it on my race, I believe that 90% of the reason why I can't get into Masters is due my incompetence, 9% due to bad luck, then maybe JUST MAYBE 1% is because my race has so many loose ends that I must adapt to in order to succeed. I actually want to be proven wrong btw... it is much much less frustrating when you understand why exactly you are failing. Okay quick overview just for you: Important things to look at as zerg: Larvae, Queens Energy, evo chambers, lair/hive, creep spread, overlord pos, standards(supply etc), amount of workers / bases ... Important things to look at as terran: barracks + tech lab, factory + tech lab, star port + tech lab, energy on CCs, workers/CCs, scanning/muling, amount of prod. all facilities, standards ... Important things to look at as protoss: nexus energy, nexus/CC, gateways/warpins, robo, stargate, forge, core, amount of prod. all facilities, templar archive, robobay ... Micro methods for zerg: muta, infestor, army spread, banelings, queens, surrounding, burrowed stuff... micro methods for terran: marine spread, dropping, tankspread / stutter step, EMPs, micro methods for protoss: forcefields, army positioning/fight positioning, storms, feedbacks, blink,... Scouting applies for all 3 races. etc. So...why again is zerg so much harder to play? You want us to prove that you are wrong. How about YOU prove that you are right? Because right now i just see "anecdotal evidence". Please, back your statements up. Or, if you don't have anything to back it up, just leave this topic out of here. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Also expect to lose more than 50% of your starting out, and plan to lose hundreds more likely thousands before you ever get to the masters league. But getting frustrated over these losses will just cause you to lose your motivation, you must realize that these losses are your biggest tool to getting better. Learning from your mistakes to never make the same error again will reduce many errors. Additionally, a lot of learning must come outside the game. You will need to start watching a lot of Day[9] to start and a lot of GSL and GSTL to try to gain an understanding of the game and why pros are doing what there doing and how they make these decisions. GL HF in your journey it will probably be a long one! Keep us posted. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
I basically jumped from Bronze-Gold when I watched Day9 talk about probes and pylons. Then I jumped from Gold-Diamond when I realised my macro was still god awful. Diamond - Masters was just... playing, trying to identify my weakest points. Overall I have really low APM, my multi-tasking sucks, my army control is *terrible*, and I still get supply blocked and forget probes. But if you can identify why you keep losing, you can work on it. I belong to a clan where I regularly get to see lower-league players play. Especially watching gold-low diamond players, I notice that sometimes their macro is better than mine, they do multi-pronged attacks like I cannot, and especially they control their army better than I do. But typically there are one or two particularly glaring weaknesses in their play that I've managed to iron out in mine, and I think that's the difference between them and me. | ||
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IIIOmegaIII
Sweden319 Posts
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Badfatpanda
United States9719 Posts
On July 19 2011 22:08 Snuggles wrote: It's possible as long as you don't play Zerg. I'm serious, please argue against me as to why Zerg wouldn't be a bad choice for a bronze league player who wants to become Masters in a relatively short amount of time (within a year?). Protoss and Terran are just so much more straight forward and mechanically less demanding than Zerg. Not to mention the fact that you won't have to deal with losing to oddball all-in attacks, strange timing rushes every other game that you would have playing Zerg. I have a friend who plays Terran, he started out as a bronze league player and he is now Masters. Like with many other people I just don't understand how he was able to make it and stay in Masters while there are so many other competent Terrans who are forever doomed to stay in Diamond until they can consistently stay on a winning streak against Mid Master players. I'm really happy for him for getting into Masters, really impressed as well since he started out as bronze. But looking at his mechanics and some holes in his play seriously frustrates me to no end when I'm stuck in Diamond, unable to play more than 2-3 hours each day. I don't want to blame it on my race, I believe that 90% of the reason why I can't get into Masters is due my incompetence, 9% due to bad luck, then maybe JUST MAYBE 1% is because my race has so many loose ends that I must adapt to in order to succeed. I actually want to be proven wrong btw... it is much much less frustrating when you understand why exactly you are failing. lol, please don't jack the thread with skill cap discussions. Yes, it's entirely possible, people come into this game with entirely different levels of play ranging from "wut's an RTS?" to "I played BW professionally". As long as you put the effort into improving and continue to work on improving the weaker aspects of your play, you can definitely get promoted to masters! You just need to put the practice in and you will improve, but the effort you put in is what determines whether you'll be the 2000 1v1's played bronze-leaguer or a masters with a couple hundred games played. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On July 19 2011 17:09 seefernando wrote: Is there any way people play? To all the Bronze to Master players, Was there ever that " OH man! thats what I'm missing" moment? When did you start noticing major changes in your play? What did you start doing really different? This occurred to me several times, and is actually something you'll see the more you improve. StarCraft 2 is a game of plateaus- as you reach a new one you'll notice an improvement in your play. You will stagnate at some point, and then you'll find a new thing you improve on which sends you back to a winning trend. For me personally, Always making workers, Not getting supply blocked, decent unit control, checking the minimap frequently, appropriate production facilities. These were my first few goals I set to get better, and as I improved at each one, I noticed the same trend I explained above. Practice partners is a great way to improve, as massing games really is the best way to do so (as long as you're working on your overall game as you do it). On July 19 2011 17:24 seefernando wrote: So I just got a PM that I should post replays and comment on them and how I felt about them myself. Is that something I should do? I just feel like I'm gonna make more Fodder for the forums. Honestly though I feel that may SC2 related forums are not as Newbie friendly. Anyone else feel that? I want to improve and document it so that others can do the same as well. Yes. Posting replays here allows the rest of the community to help analyze your replays with you, and helps you get the most out of each replay. Also, the forums are surprisingly newb friendly, so long as you either a. post in the general b. have a well though out newb post in the strategy forum. It's only the bronze leaguer who posts in the strat forum "IM SO BAD HELP ME PLS X RACE IS TOO HARD" that gets flamed- and deservedly so. EDIT: + Show Spoiler + On July 19 2011 22:08 Snuggles wrote: It's possible as long as you don't play Zerg. I'm serious, please argue against me as to why Zerg wouldn't be a bad choice for a bronze league player who wants to become Masters in a relatively short amount of time (within a year?). Protoss and Terran are just so much more straight forward and mechanically less demanding than Zerg. Not to mention the fact that you won't have to deal with losing to oddball all-in attacks, strange timing rushes every other game that you would have playing Zerg. I have a friend who plays Terran, he started out as a bronze league player and he is now Masters. Like with many other people I just don't understand how he was able to make it and stay in Masters while there are so many other competent Terrans who are forever doomed to stay in Diamond until they can consistently stay on a winning streak against Mid Master players. I'm really happy for him for getting into Masters, really impressed as well since he started out as bronze. But looking at his mechanics and some holes in his play seriously frustrates me to no end when I'm stuck in Diamond, unable to play more than 2-3 hours each day. I don't want to blame it on my race, I believe that 90% of the reason why I can't get into Masters is due my incompetence, 9% due to bad luck, then maybe JUST MAYBE 1% is because my race has so many loose ends that I must adapt to in order to succeed. I actually want to be proven wrong btw... it is much much less frustrating when you understand why exactly you are failing. You should always try to avoid blaming your race for everything. As a zerg turned protoss since beta, I don't argue at all the zerg is the most mechanically demanding race to play at the highest level, or necessarily that there isn't a flimsy nature to the zerg early game. That being said, some of the best players in the world play zerg. It isn't unfixable. As you said, you aren't in masters for a reason. I think it would be more prudent to address the problems you have stopping you from reaching that level, rather than to compare yourself to your friends. And to use the same advice I gave the OP- practice games! + Show Spoiler + for example, if you have a hard time with the high pressure "coinflip" (using quotes because it's not my opinion) nature of early game Zerg- i'll guess it's ZvT- then get a practice partner and grind out 20 straight 2rax bunker rushers until you figure it out. This DOES help. | ||
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Melle
Netherlands26 Posts
I got from bronze to diamond in 1.5 month and from bronze to Master in 4 months. Two things you need to do: 1. Play and practise a lot! 2. Watch a lot of other people play, do this by watching commentaries, livestreams. Maybe try to join clan, there are a lot of low level clans, they can provide you a lot of practise partners and you can talk about tactics with them. Good luck! | ||
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Rarak
Australia631 Posts
If you keep practising and building on what you learn, you will go a long way. I think every player is capable of reaching atleast diamond, and most could reach masters. After that however there is a huge gulf between your average masters player like me, and the top top players and i think to get there would require some innate apptitude in addition to hard work. | ||
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Rarak
Australia631 Posts
On July 19 2011 18:48 KeksX wrote: I've seen people play in masters that play like shitty bronze noobs all the way. Look at your replays and judge yourself or let friends judge your playstyle. The ladder ranking is only capable of judging how much you play, not if you actually play well. If you get shitty opponents and win all the time, you get to masters. If you have bad luck you stay in bronze. However, you can get into masters without even improving... So yea, start to mass ladder and you'll eventually get to masters. How long it will take depends on how much luck you have. But if you actually want to get better, I suggest to practice efficently. How this is done... you have to figure it out yourself. This is complete rubbish, league is very representative of skill in broad terms. A masters player could pick up a bronze account and be back to masters inless than 50 games. A bronze player is in bronze because he/she cannot yet consistently beat people in higher leagues. Ladder is only an unreliable messure of skill for top GM/pros. | ||
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Wordpad
Denmark154 Posts
On July 19 2011 17:09 tuukster wrote: I would recommend that you first become a master in very basic things and leave the strategical grand schemes for later. Don't try to master everything at once. You can climb up to platinum/diamond by simply never being supply blocked and always producing units. Having way more units than your opponent counters most tactics/openings/builds. Pretty much what he said. Let me just add that a much faster way of pin-pointing those skills would be to go to create custom game, find "Multitasking Trainer", and do it 30-45 minutes a day, adjusting the difficulty accordingly. Just by doing that, I improved from Bronze to Diamond in about 1½ week. It helps you since you are forced to learning to use hot keys and to sustain macro while performing other actions such as defending drops, or killing the enemies base. Highly recommend, would probably say it's the most efficient way of getting to Diamond, then you can start thinking strategy & builds. | ||
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Rarak
Australia631 Posts
On July 19 2011 22:08 Snuggles wrote: It's possible as long as you don't play Zerg. I'm serious, please argue against me as to why Zerg wouldn't be a bad choice for a bronze league player who wants to become Masters in a relatively short amount of time (within a year?). Protoss and Terran are just so much more straight forward and mechanically less demanding than Zerg. Not to mention the fact that you won't have to deal with losing to oddball all-in attacks, strange timing rushes every other game that you would have playing Zerg. I have a friend who plays Terran, he started out as a bronze league player and he is now Masters. Like with many other people I just don't understand how he was able to make it and stay in Masters while there are so many other competent Terrans who are forever doomed to stay in Diamond until they can consistently stay on a winning streak against Mid Master players. I'm really happy for him for getting into Masters, really impressed as well since he started out as bronze. But looking at his mechanics and some holes in his play seriously frustrates me to no end when I'm stuck in Diamond, unable to play more than 2-3 hours each day. I don't want to blame it on my race, I believe that 90% of the reason why I can't get into Masters is due my incompetence, 9% due to bad luck, then maybe JUST MAYBE 1% is because my race has so many loose ends that I must adapt to in order to succeed. I actually want to be proven wrong btw... it is much much less frustrating when you understand why exactly you are failing. There are a lot of zerg players in masters, they are definately not underepresented, you just need to lift your game a little to make masters, it is often a long journey from diamond to masters, it was for me as toss. I find that zerg players in particular almost always think they have outplayed me when they lose esp if they have more bases, i think this is just them not realising that the races are different and toss players have different objectives than a zerg. I lose plenty of games to other zerg players who truly outplay me, so i think there is a zerg imbalance perception which is not entirely in sync with reality. | ||
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ttQQtt
Germany50 Posts
You just have to play a lot (took my about 700 wins to reach master league) and watch some pro replays to prepare a build for every match up. IMO it's the best to stay with one race and one build(for every matchup). | ||
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UnitedKronos
139 Posts
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jackalope1234
122 Posts
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neo_sporin
United States516 Posts
My mechanics are generally awful but once i found I was allowed to make more than 20 drones I went from gold to diamond fairly instantly. Now I win with macro and fairly horrible mechanics and awful micro. zerg ftw | ||
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Nemasyst.598
United States285 Posts
I started out only playing team games  It's best if you watch Day9 and have people coaching you, coupled by playing a lot. If you'd like any coaching or just advice hit me up either here or in-game :D Nemasyst 598 | ||
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