EPT
but im afraid i don't play enough 1-2 hours a day, and somedays not at all.Bronze to Master! in my dreams? - Page 6
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Dezire
Netherlands640 Posts
but im afraid i don't play enough 1-2 hours a day, and somedays not at all. | ||
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
On July 19 2011 22:36 Durp wrote: EDIT: You should always try to avoid blaming your race for everything. As a zerg turned protoss since beta, I don't argue at all the zerg is the most mechanically demanding race to play at the highest level, or necessarily that there isn't a flimsy nature to the zerg early game. That being said, some of the best players in the world play zerg. It isn't unfixable. As you said, you aren't in masters for a reason. I think it would be more prudent to address the problems you have stopping you from reaching that level, rather than to compare yourself to your friends. And to use the same advice I gave the OP- practice games! + Show Spoiler + for example, if you have a hard time with the high pressure "coinflip" (using quotes because it's not my opinion) nature of early game Zerg- i'll guess it's ZvT- then get a practice partner and grind out 20 straight 2rax bunker rushers until you figure it out. This DOES help. Hey thanks for the nice reply. In all honesty my post went a bit off topic merely through my frustration. I already knew I was setting myself up for a war, but my frustration got the better of me. At least I have the saving grace of knowing that people who didn't take my post too well haven't read in to it properly. But your advice actually further supports my opinion that Zerg isn't the easiest choice to have as your main race. You're going to have to lose many many times to silly things and figure out the most arbitrary timings for droning and tech just to not die. I'm saying that you will have to do this more often because of the volatile nature of the Zerg race. I'm quite sure that if we had STATISTICS that you all love, Zerg would most likely be the race that is most harrassed, all-in'd, and timing attacked in which you will obviously die if you don't react in an overwhelmingly one-sided fashion. As a result you may not have as much fun playing Zerg than you would as a Protoss 4gating in the bronze league (any league for that matter). There is one thing I would like to take out of that post, and that is what I said about just not choosing Zerg as your main race. It's just as possible to reach Masters from bronze as any other race, its just that my views on how difficult it is and how mentally taxing it is to get there is different from others. I really don't want to derail this thread with "skill cap" discussions. I don't think I have mentioned anything about mechanics so please don't bring them up KeksX. It's more like the relationship of each race to each other. If every race could deploy similar tactics and strategy with the same efficiency of other races this game would be quite boring wouldn't it? Some races have stronger early game openers that are possibly game-ending than other races. Because of that it will be more difficult to learn from the bottom up with one race, than it is with another. But let's not forget that the main reason for what race you pick is the one you will have the most fun with. Because although I get so flustered on the ladder playing Zerg, I am having more fun winning as Zerg than I would have playing Protoss. That is what is most important. | ||
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Charger
United States2405 Posts
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thepeonwhocould
Australia334 Posts
But this mass gaming also needs to be in a style where you are playing to get better. There is a difference between "playing" and "playing to improve". Examples of playing to improve... -Watching your replays, analysing why you lost -Practicing 1 safe, macro build per matchup for 95% of your games. It should be fully planned out up to 4+ bases at which point your natural starcraft instincs will have to take over (freeballing). -Visiting strategy forums -Watching (some key important) day 9 dailies and 12 weeks with the pro's -Watching replays of the best players in the world and copying them -Regularly practicing against players who are better than you It's definately possible, but you will need to dedicate enough time to put in those 700 or so games, theres no way of avoiding that in my oppinion. | ||
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cheeseheadlogic
United States322 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:03 thepeonwhocould wrote: I would say it will take about 700 games minimum for a complete noob to go from Bronze to Masters. But this mass gaming also needs to be in a style where you are playing to get better. There is a difference between playing to get better and just hitting play game over and over. No, takes about ~150-200 if you have a solid game plan coming into season reset, perfect time to jump ladders. I was a big 4v4 player in season 1 and was very disinterested in 1s because I didn't spend time watching and practicing and understanding builds(aka I was Bronze). I prepped before season 2 for a couple weeks. Came in strong into season 2 and went to masters in 2 weeks of solid play. To the person that started this thread, it is an achievable dream and has been done. If you need any tips or help let me know. | ||
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ScrubbleS
United States74 Posts
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Eufouria
United Kingdom4425 Posts
Focusing on improving is a much better way to progress, because its a lot less frustrating. If you focus on your league you'll probably end up like almost everyone else who focuses on their league does and think things like "I've been playing gold players and winning against them, but I am still in silver!" and that's an unproductive mindset. Then eventually you end up cheesing every game, but you're still not much better than you were when you were in lower leagues. If you focus on improving you get the same satisfaction as you do from getting promoted, but it happens more regularly. For example I used to be really bad with banshees, so I opened banshees every TvT I played, and then after I while I started thinking "Wow my opponents are really bad at defending banshee harassment," but what had actually happened was I'd just got better. Then eventually you play better people who are better at countering what you do, but you improve again so you can beat them. I've got a feeling everything I've said is parroting a newbie Tuesday from a few months ago, so maybe you can find that and watch it, and it'll probably tell you a lot more than I can. Also just enjoy Starcraft. Watch streams or matches and if you see a build copy it, if you have fun playing the game you will want to play more, so you will improve faster. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On July 19 2011 23:54 Snuggles wrote: Hey thanks for the nice reply. In all honesty my post went a bit off topic merely through my frustration. I already knew I was setting myself up for a war, but my frustration got the better of me. At least I have the saving grace of knowing that people who didn't take my post too well haven't read in to it properly. But your advice actually further supports my opinion that Zerg isn't the easiest choice to have as your main race. You're going to have to lose many many times to silly things and figure out the most arbitrary timings for droning and tech just to not die. I'm saying that you will have to do this more often because of the volatile nature of the Zerg race. I'm quite sure that if we had STATISTICS that you all love, Zerg would most likely be the race that is most harrassed, all-in'd, and timing attacked in which you will obviously die if you don't react in an overwhelmingly one-sided fashion. As a result you may not have as much fun playing Zerg than you would as a Protoss 4gating in the bronze league (any league for that matter). There is one thing I would like to take out of that post, and that is what I said about just not choosing Zerg as your main race. It's just as possible to reach Masters from bronze as any other race, its just that my views on how difficult it is and how mentally taxing it is to get there is different from others. I really don't want to derail this thread with "skill cap" discussions. I don't think I have mentioned anything about mechanics so please don't bring them up KeksX. It's more like the relationship of each race to each other. If every race could deploy similar tactics and strategy with the same efficiency of other races this game would be quite boring wouldn't it? Some races have stronger early game openers that are possibly game-ending than other races. Because of that it will be more difficult to learn from the bottom up with one race, than it is with another. But let's not forget that the main reason for what race you pick is the one you will have the most fun with. Because although I get so flustered on the ladder playing Zerg, I am having more fun winning as Zerg than I would have playing Protoss. That is what is most important. That may be true, and I wouldn't dare engage in arguing about that haha, but I would caution you to think like that without doing some more thinking relative to the 3 races. Every race is pressured, in almost every game. Regardless of race, not pressuring an opponent of equal skill to you will lose you the game most often. The difference, and your complaint, is that the timings vs zerg are earlier in the game. This is true, however, when the midgame rolls around, there is a span of time where an unharassed zerg player can easily jump 20-30 workers ahead of you, and just pour on the aggression while expanding until you crumble from that pressure. You'll rarely ever see that in high level games, mind you, and that is because most players will not let zergs get to that point. I won't argue that the trends in anti-zerg aggression are to do it in the early game, but again, that can be due (not solely, but in part) to the fact that the zerg larvae inject is so powerful. A new player may not enjoy dealing with these <5 minute harass timings, or conversely, may enjoy the fact that they have a great opportunity for either a. intense micro early on or b. dominating macro later on. Several of my W3 friends took up zerg for that reason (they like to be always microing units). TLDR; Zerg needs to be pressured or they win the game with superior economic mechanics (ie larvae). Zerg is a defensive race, with the least beefy fighting units, and is the only race that can't realistically play behind a full wall. This alone should make it obvious that zerg is at least slightly more difficult to start off with from a completely blank slate. | ||
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Kaitokid
Germany1327 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:08 IINcheezhead wrote: No, takes about ~150-200 if you have a solid game plan coming into season reset, perfect time to jump ladders. I was a big 4v4 player in season 1 and was very disinterested in 1s because I didn't spend time watching and practicing and understanding builds(aka I was Bronze). I prepped before season 2 for a couple weeks. Came in strong into season 2 and went to masters in 2 weeks of solid play. To the person that started this thread, it is an achievable dream and has been done. If you need any tips or help let me know. No, you can't become a master level player in just 150-200 games. Thats 75-100 wins on ladder, basically nothing. You need 150 games just to get out of bronze and get into masters when you ARE ALREADY on masters level. | ||
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Earll
Norway847 Posts
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Earll
Norway847 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:08 IINcheezhead wrote: No, takes about ~150-200 if you have a solid game plan coming into season reset, perfect time to jump ladders. I was a big 4v4 player in season 1 and was very disinterested in 1s because I didn't spend time watching and practicing and understanding builds(aka I was Bronze). I prepped before season 2 for a couple weeks. Came in strong into season 2 and went to masters in 2 weeks of solid play. To the person that started this thread, it is an achievable dream and has been done. If you need any tips or help let me know. You need time watching and practicing and understanding builds to get out of bronze? I may be wrong here but I am under the impression that just having solid mechanics (e.g good macro, not getting supply blocked or floating minerals etc, and 'ok' unit control) takes you to mid-high diamond at least. | ||
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thepeonwhocould
Australia334 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:30 Earll wrote: You need time watching and practicing and understanding builds to get out of bronze? I may be wrong here but I am under the impression that just having solid mechanics (e.g good macro, not getting supply blocked or floating minerals etc, and 'ok' unit control) takes you to mid-high diamond at least. Having a build and long term plan that you practice over and over again is actually one of the best ways to improve your macro and overall mechanics. | ||
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DeuceStarcraft
Canada60 Posts
I hate to make a shamless plug here, but what I've done is start a blog (http://deucestarcraft.blogspot.com) where I analyze my own videos, and get advice from other, better players on how to improve. I thought this was a good idea because it allows you to see what you're doing wrong, encourages you to play, and gets you involved in the starcraft 2 community (who are, apparently, a great bunch of people. I've had some very very positive feedback. I guess all I'm saying, is somehow keep track of how you're doing, and keep at it! Not everyone picks up the game and is immediately a ML player. Keep at it XD | ||
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ensign_lee
United States1178 Posts
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KillerPlague
United States1386 Posts
On July 19 2011 17:09 seefernando wrote: Is there any way people play? To all the Bronze to Master players, Was there ever that " OH man! thats what I'm missing" moment? When did you start noticing major changes in your play? What did you start doing really different? i'm a masters player and about every 3-4 games i still learn something new. the best advice i can give you right now is watch your own replays and keep an eye on your minerals, supply, production. are you spending all your minerals or do you always have 1k? you don't want to get supply blocked, but at the same time it is a waste to have 20/50 supply. you don't need that much that early. next watch your structures. are they constantly building something. worker production shouldn't stop til around 80. your structures should rarely be idle. at your level i wouldn't worry about which units to build just yet. make anything and learn what works for you. good luck | ||
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seoul_kiM
United States545 Posts
Here's some reassuring news. I was a 60's ranked bronze when I first started to play this game at the start of the year. I went to Europe for studies and came back and started playing with a better attitude this summer and I went from 60's bronze to Number 1 in my division. Then I moved to Silver and was ranked 38 and then I moved into the top 5 and then moved up to 20's gold. Now I'm ranked 10 in gold and if it wasn't for this lock I think would've moved up to plat. Just keep working hard at it. I don't really play too much but each game I look to improve my mechanics and overall attitude to losing and winning. Just be focused and you'll move up quickly. | ||
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Zeppelin535
Canada262 Posts
On July 19 2011 16:55 zeehar wrote: of course it's possible, with a lot of hard work and a ton of time spent playing, watching, reading and analysing. i'm curious as to how long it'll take. maybe two seasons (as long as you're inherently bad at sc2)? Well, if it's any help, I was a piss poor gold league Zerg player when season 1 ended, I am now a top Master league Protoss player thanks to a lot of detication starting not too long after the beginning of season 2. Does anyone recall exactly when season 2 began? | ||
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
just like improving at any other skill really...takes TIME | ||
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Radament
United States46 Posts
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CidO
United States695 Posts
Adapt, Play, Play, Play. The only way to calm your nerves is to expose yourself to them more, don't be afraid to ladder, you're gonna lose every other game, that's the way the system is designed, but learn from your losses, find out "oh.. this is when i should have cut probe production because I scouted and he didn't expand. Eventually it'll come natural and before you know it, you'll be at least platinum/diamond, poking your head into masters, then you refine it all, refine and play and boom...eventually my story : I started silver due to being unaware of cheese in beta, quickly got into gold, worked, got into platinum at the end, started platinum on release, worked slowly, then hard at the end of S1, ended up placing into diamond immediately starting season 2, kind of slacked off due to RL/Work, but it's calming down now, so my goal is masters by the end of Season 3. | ||
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