EPTBronze to Master! in my dreams? - Page 7
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
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djdoodoo
United Kingdom192 Posts
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Rykros
483 Posts
you can do it ... remember it will not be easy and sometimes u dont even want to play anymore but never give up and keep doing lots of practice ..... it might take alot of time even too like maybe more than 2 months or so but depends on u | ||
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Tsuki.eu
Portugal1049 Posts
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kcbgoku
Poland156 Posts
I didn't read all posts so I don't know if you or any1 else has mentioned that, but - good hotkeys organisation is very important. At least 3 keys for army is ok. To get to diamond, forget about BOs, 2 port banshee or other pointless builds won't teach you how to play or understand a game. All you need to know is when to create first pylon/supply/ovie so you won't stop worker production and when to create first rax/gw/sp. Below diamond (maybe even higher) all you need are good mechanics. Ofc remember about some basics, eg: you don't go marauders against muta right?. Avoid all-ins in your play, 7RR/4G is great in bronze but you acomplish nothing by doing them - no learning, no understanding, just pointless win. Let's assume you've learned a "pro elo" BO, you tried it and it worked, you won, WOW congratz. OK, great but do you know why did you win, or why did you build sth at this exact time? What happens if someone will counter your build? You won't have any idea what to do next because you don't understand the game. First thing I think you have to do - create triggers for yourself (according to day9), so you'll be able to remember about everything - looking at minimap, food, resources etc. However don't craeate all at once, because you won't remember all of them. If you're too slow but you remember about things you need to do, just play and play and play more - you'll eventually gain speed for doing them all (as long as you'll keep doing them). If you are fast but can't remember about stuff - make a trigger. For example: you forget to inject larva - start tapping hotkey with your queen, so you'll see how much energy she has all the time. Mouse precision is pretty important - easy exercise: at the beginning of the game most players make huge boxes... instead of that bullshit - click on minerals, when you'll be able to click decently fast on them one by one, start clicking on drones. Also you can play some custom, put speedlings on patrol and try to click on them. You'll see progress pretty fast. Maybe that's obvious, maybe not, but remember to FOCUS on playing, focus realy hard! Don't think about school, work, party, or other shit when you're playing. Turn off skype, change status to busy, you don't want to get interrupted. Make as few decisions as you can while playing. In terms of how will you play. Multitasking = speed and awareness of what is happening on map, so you'll be able to perform it well after getting to decent speed, looking at minimap and focus. Map vision is VERY important, fight for xel'naga towers, send scout. WATCH your replays. Right after playing game is good. Watch it once or twice, catch the biggest mistakes and try to avoid them in the next game. Don't get angry after you lose, don't rage if you lose to cheese, just calmly watch your replay and see what went wrong, think what will you do next time this happens. At some point (diamond/masters - I don't know exactly cuz I'm not there yet, but not earlier for sure!) you'll notice you won't be able to outproduce your opponent, or you'll die to some refined timings. In my opinion this is the moment you need to start worring about BO's, timings, good micro, good positioning and more advanced things. Before that just play, practice with someone, watch streams/tournaments - these are things that will help you understand what, when and why. | ||
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Dragom
194 Posts
On July 19 2011 16:55 zeehar wrote: of course it's possible, with a lot of hard work and a ton of time spent playing, watching, reading and analysing. i'm curious as to how long it'll take. maybe two seasons (as long as you're inherently bad at sc2)? lol that depends on how good ur computer is. it would be sad to lag right during a battle | ||
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titan55
United States227 Posts
Being in masters league since day 1.. It's seriously NOT THAT HARD to get in and people in it are NOT THAT GOOD. I have a feeling, everyone in it are mostly just casual gamers who just understand RTS a little bit more. Given that you're willing to read, learn, practice, and UNDERSTAND RTS and how to play. you will be in masters with little to no trouble at all | ||
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riff
United States113 Posts
Oh and watching Day9 now and again can be helpful, particularly when you're just starting out. But don't waste too much time watching streams and reading forums. If you truly want to get better, you must put in the time playing. | ||
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genius_man16
United States749 Posts
On July 19 2011 16:53 seefernando wrote:I want your input. I really want this to be a community experiment. Is it possible for a bronze leguer to get to Masters? Absolutely!  I myself was originally bronze league and now I'm playing Master League opponents and just waiting for a promotion.My advice would be watch lots of Day[9] Newbie Tuesdays and understand the basics of what you need to improve on. He says all the time that the best way to improve is to focus on one thing at a time until you can do it well and then move on to something else. Then once you get to Diamond league you can focus on build orders and things like that. An example would be (especially at your level) to constantly make workers. Too be honest, that in itself should get you to at least silver league, maybe gold. Then focus on always producing out of your production facilities, and then focus on expanding earlier, etc. this way you will always be improving something important, but you won't be overwhelmed with 20 things you need to work on and be frustrated/give up. Edit: On July 20 2011 02:04 titan55 wrote: Everyone in this world (and i seriously mean EVERYONE) should be able to achieve masters league at the very minimum. Being in masters league since day 1.. It's seriously NOT THAT HARD to get in and people in it are NOT THAT GOOD. I have a feeling, everyone in it are mostly just casual gamers who just understand RTS a little bit more. Given that you're willing to read, learn, practice, and UNDERSTAND RTS and how to play. you will be in masters with little to no trouble at all Posts like this piss me off. Just because you have the mechanics and understanding to play this game doesn't mean everyone else can. It's not /that/ easy to get into masters league. Yes there are some 'bad' players in there, but they got there by being able to execute build orders well enough to be there. I know of a player in GrandMaster league even who does nothing but 4gate every game. Is he a 'bad' player? Yeah probably in terms of his overall gameplay, but it takes an incredible amount of skill and focus to be able to execute a 4gate at that high of a level consitently. Maybe it's "easy" for you to get into master league, but most people don't find it that easy. | ||
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yomi
United States773 Posts
that said master league is really pretty easy, most people overrate how good the master league players are. if you really never ever got supply blocked and always kept your macro up you would easily be in masters as this level of proficiency does not describe most masters players. | ||
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lubu42
United States314 Posts
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mewbert
United States291 Posts
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Alexl
288 Posts
His secret? Play alot (he 1v1'd 3 to 4 hours, sometimes more, a day up to diamond) and regurlaly. (also maybe protoss :>) Pick a build and perfect it, that'll get you far in the ladder. | ||
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Jonas :)
United States511 Posts
On July 20 2011 03:35 mewby wrote: I went from bronze - masters in 3 months with no rts experience, its not that hard just play alot of games. However low masters to high masters/gm is much much harder This. I went from being placed in silver to masters in 1 season while playing only like ~400 games or so and getting over a 3.9 GPA my sophomore year in an engineering curriculum. You can do it, you just need to keep that mouse busy, use hotkeys, watch replays, etc. It's important to keep in mind when you watch pro player's streams that It's not about how "fast" you are with the keyboard, it's about knowing what needs to be done and doing it in a fast and efficient manner. I have 80 APM and often out-multitask players with twice that. You can do this. But the way to do it is not to start threads on team liquid asking if it is possible, it is to actually play the damn game | ||
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bunnymuncher
Canada112 Posts
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Polymath
United States18 Posts
On July 20 2011 03:27 yomi wrote: everyone will tell you that you just have to work hard at it and anyone can do it. I really don't agree with this. if you are a legitimate bronze leaguer meaning you have played a good number (50+) of games and are still in bronze league I would say you are hopeless. some people are just very slow with their hands and don't think the right way for playing RTS games. that said master league is really pretty easy, most people overrate how good the master league players are. if you really never ever got supply blocked and always kept your macro up you would easily be in masters as this level of proficiency does not describe most masters players. You can probably make it to at least Platinum just with 30 APM if you use your APM efficiently. I don't think anyone should have a mindset that it's impossible to improve. Besides, I don't think anybody (edit: who is not actually physically disabled) is legitimately so impaired with their hand speed that they can't get to 60 APM with enough practice--and I've seen a few master's league players who play that slowly. Bring up a clock and try typing your next post with one key press each second. See how long it takes you. | ||
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CharlieBrownsc
Canada598 Posts
It takes dedicated PRACTICE laddering for 9hours and raging when you lose is not practice, make sure the time you spend is effective towards your improvment | ||
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nanoscorp
United States1237 Posts
Not sure if you've seen this one, but day[9] daily #208 is great for learning how a good player should approach the game: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-208-live-coaching-with-djwheat-4340212 GL HF! | ||
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Nairi
Finland75 Posts
Personally I belive anyone can even become a starcraft 2 pro, but in some cases that may require extreme amounts of time and dedication and sacrifices most people are not willing to make. If I may I would like to give a few tips along the road: -Make sure you have fun! Do what you think is fun stuff. Even if you belive it will make you lose. Eventually you will start winning too. -Day9 is a character/muppet/person/legend you may already know, if not I would strongly suggest you watch episodes 257 and 252 (#257 , #252) -Make a list of goals for yourself, for instance: "during the next week I will play one game where I never get supply blocked" and then you try to accomplish that during every game. -Dont worry about apm, you will get faster over time as more tasks can be accomplished by muscle memory alone. Focus on doing things right rather than doing them fast. -Lastly dont get too hang up on losses, the process of getting better sadly involves alot of losing. VoD coaching by me if you or anyone is interested. + Show Spoiler + I will analyse/coach as many games as possible. As my streaming schedule is irregular everything will be uploaded as VoDs on www.justin.tv/nairisc/videos To submit you replay do the following: -Send it via email to nairistarcraft@gmail.com -Give a brief explanation of what you were going for, and why. Stream thread on teamliquid | ||
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seefernando
Canada17 Posts
Thanks again for all the support, advice and testimonials! Here are some of my responses. There was so much input, I'm just going to condense what I'm read :D You'll have to Play ALOT of games!! + Show Spoiler + You bet I will! With work and school it will be hard, and some of you have posted that your grades dropped... :o This should be expected... My goal is to ladder atleast once a day. Meaning At least one game a day. This is from Day[9] He talked about a routine, I think the reasoning behind this is to get the muscle memory for the hotkeys and the mental ability to multitask efficiently. Someone mentioned not to just do major laddering sessions on the weekends. This is just like School, Cramming doesn't always help, and Cramming definitely doesn't help you retain what you learned very long. I know this will be a long process :D I'm in no rush <3 Watch a lot of streams and VODs + Show Spoiler + I'm going to try, I think at this point Pro replays will help a bit more just to know when they pull probes to build things and find their probe counts and resource values. I think replays will help more, since I can slow things down and compare to what I'm doing at the same time. I do love me some GSL and NASL tho! "PUMA HWAITING!!!!" Don't worry about APM, Win/Loss or Leagues! + Show Spoiler + I totally agree with this! When I started getting serious about doing better, I was told to 4 gate my way up. My buddy stated "It'll get you out of bronze and into Diamond!" But I don't care about what league I'm in... Contray to the Thread title I know... I want to have MASTER Level Skills! I want to act, play and think like a high level master player. If that makes any sense. So no aimless worker selections for me I'll try to make my meager APM as affective as possibleLess READING and more LADDERING... + Show Spoiler + For sure!! I do think I read/watch a lot. Even today, when I first sat down I decided I'd rewatch Day[J]'s mechanics daily. Then I realized my time might be better spend trying to play as mechanically perfect as I can. That way I can setup a baseline for how much I suck!  Coaching is the fastest way! + Show Spoiler + Agreed! I am broke though...  I've looked into many AWESOME people that offer free lessons, I've been to the Myco coaching channel and gotten pointers and tips. I think the fastest way to learn is from the mistakes of others. People that have been there, done that. Of course I will have to apply what they say! They won't be playing for me, I'm gonna have to do the learning and translate what they say into something useful for me.Focus on one thing at a time! + Show Spoiler + I'm going to be setting up Small Weekly goals Things like have 100 supply by 10 mins or constantly scout for expos. My goal for this week will be to not get supply blocked in the first 10 mins. Is that a reasonable goal? Should I say not get supply blocked for the whole game? I think I'm going to need help with setting these baby-step goals Rewatch every replay! + Show Spoiler + This is something I don't do enough... Even today... I only watched 3 of my replays... I have read the article about how to analyze replays. Also I'm going to be only concentrating on the early game. I pretty much just A-move my army around late game anyway! I need to make progress in the early game. Have FUN! Don't rage! + Show Spoiler + This is not a huge issue for me :D I'm a pretty easy going guy, I tend to only rage when I get cannon rushed... But that would only be my fault for not scouting! The forums ARE newbie friendly + Show Spoiler + I could not agree more! Honestly this was my 3rd post? I had also never made a thread. I understand now why the rules are so strict about what you post and where. So is where this is posted now ok? Should I keep making updates here? Is there a better place for this to go? Also in terms of this forum, what do the [Q][H][L] tags mean before some threads? In the warning thread in strategy it states that all post must have tags? What are the tags and what purpose do they serve? This is so I know what i'm looking at while browsing the forums Phew! That was a lot of typing! Again <3<3<3 to all those that have posted and offered help! If you'd like to coach me you can hit me up on the NA server. That is, if I'm allowed to post a request like that here (NomNomNom.280) Had great day of laddering today! By great I mean I lost every one! YAY!... I did my best not to rage as I got rolled by a 6 pool, an early stim push and my favourite, losing my death ball to infestors... I played a solid 8 games today. But I only reviewed 3 of the replays... That is something I have to change. So the game I've posted on SC2Replayed doesn't seem to be recognized by their system because of the patch, but here is the link anyways. NomNomNom PvZ SC2Replayed Here is my analysis of the first few mins, please let me know if there is anything I missed. + Show Spoiler + -My #10 probe was delayed because I was distracted in typing to the guy... -I didn't cue up my #12 probe -I got my forge before my 12th probe -I put down my 16 pylon too early, should have put down the cannon. -My 9 pylon was placed poorly, I like to have my cannons behind buildings. The pylon was not positioned to allow this. -My first cannon was really delayed -Way too many pylons early -My chono built up after I put the expo down, I usually don't chrono probes till the nexus is down, or else I'll end up cutting probes in order to get the money for the nexus -I placed a pylon at 22/36 to stop ling run bys, this should have been a cannon I think. -There were many times where I wasn't making probes, or tapping my nexus to check. Here is my take aways: + Show Spoiler + -Don't talk to the guy, GL HF is enough... -Follow the build exactly, don't be creative -Don't cut probes, ( I usually chant, "Probes, supply, minimap, money" I didn't do this because my gf was in the room. -MUST CHANT and actually tap the corresponding building hotkeys and actually compute what I see in the supply count and minimap. (22/24 =need pylon, Nexus has chono = use on probes or upgrades?) Man... that was only the first 6 mins... I will do a more diligent analysis of tomorrow's game[s] . I don't want you guys to do the work for me!  I'll be posting a few more replays in the replay thread as well as sending them to Nairi! Thanks again guys! Also please let me know if I should move this thread somewhere else, or change the formatting, I'm really new to the spoiler tags. I just figured people can read what they want to and it'll reduce the actual post size :D Take care guys! -NNN | ||
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