Hey guys, I've seen a lot of imporvement! I've made a blog about my progress, Click here for the blog!
I'll be posting at least once a week. I would love some feedback on my ideas, my methods anything really
Take care everyone and THANK YOU SO MUCH! All the feed back has been AMAZING! I know I'll see improvement!
GL HF GG!
-nnn
I'm kinda worried about making this post as TL seems very hardcore about irrelevant post and banning people...
Let me start with saying that I am a Noob. I Suck at SC2 and I suck at video games in general.
There is just something about SC2 that makes me want to improve. I want to be able to predict what my opponent is doing. The rush of holding off a 6 pool and walking in with colossus is amazing!
I want to get into the Masters league. That is my goal. I want my mechanics and macro so perfect that I never get supply blocked or miss a warp in.
I've read a lot of post and talked to a lot of people about my skill level and my abilities.
I want your input. I really want this to be a community experiment. Is it possible for a bronze leguer to get to Masters?
I'm not looking for a miracle. I know it won't happen overnight. But with your help it can happen efficiently.
Yes I have read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208343 and numerous other posts on TL and B.Net, and I am willing to do whatever it takes to get me to masters. I don't want to cheese my way there. I genuinely want to change the way I think, play and act in SC2.
Dedication is what you need NomNomNom. (I assume that's your real name because it's there in the end) If you say you general suck, even more dedication is needed. Or maybe a lot of practice?
And write a blog on your progress to keep yourself motivated.
I just met a guy a few days ago that was only high diamond. He asked me to play and I was surprised how well he played. I would say he plays at a mid masters level at least. We talked after playing a few games and we eventually got to our experience in the beta where he told me he started off as a copper player. I was extremely impressed.
So, yes, I believe it is possible for a bronze player to become a masters player if he really wants it. Just lots of focus and having fun with the game can really improve your play so much.
I'm ~1500 masters just for reference. Get a positive attitude and keep it, don't let losses effect you too much, and don't be afraid to take advice. And always GL HF . Good luck!
Hey, of course it is possible but it will take you a lot of time and practice to get into masters league. I would suggest you to browse liquidpedia for strategys and watch every educational VOD you can find (e.g. Day9 dailys).Also look at every replay you lost to try to find your leaks!
If you want someone to look at your replays and look for improvment PM me and i may can help you out!
I went from bronze to high diamond, while having to do a masters degree, playing on a friend's laptop and spending less than 4 hours of SC2 a week. I took me 3 months. I am now having a bit more free time and I am trying to reach Masters. I am being matched against masters dudes, so I think that I need a bit more practice and I'll be able to make it in there. What that means for you is that it's possible to even get to Grandmasters. GLHF
EDIT; Actually it was around 5 months, now that I think about it ;D.
Its do-able . I was Bronze at release and no RTS experience whatsoever. I've worked my way into Diamond and I think I can get to Masters next season. Just keep watching streams/ tournaments. Not only are they fun, but try to look at how the pros play and try to use them in your own play. Also Day9 was a big part of my improvement ! :D
Yes. I've been through bronze to masters. Took me a while but it was super fun, frustrating process. The process of improvement is so amazing ! Like you have no clue how to hold something off, then two days later of improving then you find it easy to improve. It is SUPER fun. The most frustrating part is when people give you information that is deemed false and you don't know what to do other than rage. If you have rage problems then control that then the process is hard but really worth it. Good Luck, Have fun, GG,
I've literally never played PC games, I only ever had a PSx and all I played as Metal Gear Solid.
I was in bronze since Mid Season 1, I played Zerg and went 7 roach till I got to Gold. At Gold I started losing consistently to Platinum players. I switched to protoss, as I was told it would be easier to learn a macro style of play with Toss.
I was placed back into Bronze by the end of season 1. Started season 2 in Bronze, I actually wasn't able to play as my laptop go stolen at school. I only started play a few weeks before the league lock.
Recently I've been playing many high Bronze/sliver players.
Is there anything I need to include?
I use Grid keys for hotkeys. I can't think of anything else I should include.
I'm looking for practice ideas, realistic goals and general ideas of improving play.
I started in bronze in december, and I was masters 2 weeks after the patch that created the master league, no prior RTS experience, I just played the game 12-16 hours a day for 2 months, I never watched streams seriously or looked up builds, just watched my replays to see what I should have done differently, went from knowing nothing about the game and having 10 apm bronze zerg to high master with 300 apm... just play the game and you'll get there
I've been supply blocked for over 4 minutes within the first 10 minutes of the game. Shit happens^. You prob overestimate the skill of masters, it's definitely feasible.
i went from bronze to diamond(before i took a couple month break). And minigun(gm prot) started in bronze since this was his first rts...so its not impossible
Even though you must master all the aspects of the game, you can still see rapid development in your mechanics by focusing your training on them. I would recommend that you first become a master in very basic things and leave the strategical grand schemes for later. Don't try to master everything at once. You can climb up to platinum/diamond by simply never being supply blocked and always producing units. Having way more units than your opponent counters most tactics/openings/builds.
Just focus your eyes on the upper-right corner most of the time and you'll be fine. Minerals, gas and supply count are the most important things in the whole game. You don't need to stare a battle for 20 seconds. Looking at the minimap is also more important than gazing at all the battles.
To all the Bronze to Master players, Was there ever that " OH man! thats what I'm missing" moment? When did you start noticing major changes in your play? What did you start doing really different?
Very possible. Just play a lot, and make sure you're learning as you play rather than just going through the motions. Use the resources available to you on TL and elsewhere, watch highlevel games/vods/replays, check out Liquipedia, etc. I was placed in Copper (lol) in beta and hit Diamond by release (which was the highest at the time). It might make it feel a little more possible for you if I point out that NA is probably the easiest of the three major ladders, and that Masters is the top 2.8% of the ladder (about 12,000 people), so you don't need to be too incredible to get where you want to be.
Yeah as some one who is half way through that process (I started off in bronze and am now top gold and winning games off top plats) it's possible, least so far.
The best advice I can give is to ladder 1v1 like mad and have friends ladder with you on skype VoIP, it's far more relaxed espeically on the ladder lol. Also day9 helped alot!
I remember losing queens to hightemplar feedbacks, after that I never had a queen over 50 energy...losing to 2rax 30 games in a row and figuring out how to defend it, its just a trial and error game, you can research all you want and watch as many streams as you want, but if you don't lose to that 2rax 10 games in a row to find out how to control your units to beat it, you never will. Just play.
This was my first rts, started bronze now im masters. BEST THING TO NOTE! Y.A.B.O.T IS YOUR FRIEND. Being able to -r to restart from scratch every time you make a mistake is the fastest way to hammer macro down.
tbh..i think you just need to learn 4gates and you can to atleast diamond, and even master once you understand a few more builds. But this is no fun. just try to learn some build orders from Pro..and practice hard to execute the BO like them.
I started in the beta as a forever copper player. I am currently rank 7 diamond and hope to hit masters soon.
It is certainly possible.
a few tips:
Learn to 4 gate. Alot of people will tell you to focus on macro build and expanding often. the problem with this is that to hold a 1 Gate FE or a 2 Gate FE vs terran you need good micro vs certain builds. You also need to know when it is safe to 1 gate FE or if you will die. If you 4 gate well you can get at least platnuim. It will teach you basic unit control and basic macro. Once this stops working and you think you have a good handle of builds then you can start going for more risky builds.
Focus on macro over micro. In the end you win by having more stuff. If you have choice between watching a battle and warping in units warp in the units. You don't have the micro to know what to do in battle and most time you will just sit there watching.
Don't try to get cute. Don't do huK style probe harass and find yuo haven't dropped your cyber core and are sitting on 300 minerals.
final note: Play a lot and you will improve. It might be slow. it took me about 6 months to get diamond and about 6 more before i thought i had a decent shot at masters. just keep at it and dont get discouraged.
On July 19 2011 17:05 Amalaxi wrote: I started in bronze in december, and I was masters 2 weeks after the patch that created the master league, no prior RTS experience, I just played the game 12-16 hours a day for 2 months, I never watched streams seriously or looked up builds, just watched my replays to see what I should have done differently, went from knowing nothing about the game and having 10 apm bronze zerg to high master with 300 apm... just play the game and you'll get there
12-16 hours per day? For 2 months? That's a little extreme. O-o And 300 apm, lol. I don't believe you. Even speedfreak ViBE is lower than that. This is the most extreme post of the entire thread.
Instead of thinking about masters, I'd set small reasonable, weekly goals. As many have said, it comes down to playing, studying, analyzing, and thinking critically. You can do it,
There are lots of nice people out there who are offering free coaching. I suggest you take up on that as you can learn many quick tips and things you just never knew about the game.
I would suggest shooting for Platinum or Diamond for the time being. It's important to have ambitious goals, but shooting too high too early can be bad for your morale and your chances of success.
It is very possible, I started out as copper at the end of beta and was in diamond at release. It really helps if you can find a friend who is at or above your level of play who can sort of help show you the ropes of the game. Just try and get better slowly at all assets of the game, play faster, don't get supply blocked, pay attention to your army, and soon enough you'll find yourself miles beyond where you were earlier. To be honest, masters only appears to be good to those not in masters, I am in masters and I think I am terrible at the game.
You just gotta keep playing, I got from bronze to diamond so far, it just takes a lot of play and a lot of trying to just improve. Of course it's possible.
In order to get from Bronze to Masters you need to understand how this game works. You need to understand that there are a few key things regarding timings and mechanics. I started off in Bronze too, but it didn't take me very long to get to Diamond (there was no masters back then) simply because I understood how this game was meant to work. I think that derives from the 50 bw games I've plaxed and the like3 or 4 VODs I've watched.
I think one of the most important things is that you need to be a perfectionist. If you don't care that you got more than 0 left after you did a speedling expand build, or if you sent your drone out to build a hatchery 50 minerals too early you just won't get far.
You also have to accept the fact that a huge part of improvement is researching. You have to read a ton of sc2 related stuff, you have to watch a ton of sc2 related stuff and you have to listen to a lot of sc2 related stuff. You might think that consumes a lot of time, but in fact it saves an incredible amount. When you watch a video you don't do it for fun. You do it for improvement, you look for the tiny things that differ from your play. When you read a strategy guide you want to go online and try it as long as you get it down perfectly.
You need to find practice partners to play all the matchups to get a feeling for the timings. I figured a lot of the ZvP timings out myself and now this MU is on GM level. If you want to do it you have to acknowledge that it is no fun being competitive unless you find it fun being competitive.
On July 19 2011 17:24 seefernando wrote: So I just got a PM that I should post replays and comment on them and how I felt about them myself.
Is that something I should do? I just feel like I'm gonna make more Fodder for the forums.
Honestly though I feel that may SC2 related forums are not as Newbie friendly. Anyone else feel that?
I want to improve and document it so that others can do the same as well.
i think the forums are quite newbi friendly, its just that people ask soo many questions which have already been answered a 1000 times (excellerating) Honestly there is so much helpful content out there that anybody could get diamond atleast.
As ive written before, watch alot, play alot and look for your wholes, progress will come slowly but it will happen.
Find a few mentors or people to assist you to grow as a player, then just play. Don't worry about your league just worry about getting better and working to grow as a player. I have helped numerous people grow in sc2 and there are many who will help you as well. I believe there was a adopt a noobie program somewhere helping players such as yourself find higher rated players to coach you. One of the first things you must learn is that if you lose that it is your fault don't blame the game or your opponent blame yourself. Learn from your mistakes and and grow as a player. Pm a few people in your own thread and ask them for help. Some people will flame you probably and some people might help you just gotta put yourself out there and be on with it.
Definitely possible. I was bronze about 5 months ago and now I'm master. I only play once or twice a week so if i played a bit more i could have possible gotten here sooner.
The trick is to not be creative and barely think about strategy. Just work on your mechanics. Watch replays to see where your mechanics start to fall. Your APM will naturally rise so it's important to be efficient with your APM rather than just try to play fast. I use to play with like 20, now i play with about 120, which is not super fast but atm, i can macro decently with it.
Try to get some really refined builds tht are solid and safe. Most of these u will want to copy from a pro, as ur not at the level to make ur own builds. Good game sense comes from just massing games, something i still need to do more off, and it's also the best way to improve ur mechanics. Always scout and after a while, u'll know wat ur scouting for and how to respond to it.
Just have really small goals tht u want to achieve and ur game will start to really improve. I found getting out of bronze to gold the hardest bit, once u start to get a grasp of the game, it becomes much easier to analyse ur game and know where to improve.
Bronze to master is possible for sure, it just takes effort and willingness to improve. Cheesing can probably get u to masters but tht's not a smart way to do it. Just play solid and safe. It may take a while but it'll be worth it in the long run.
Definitely possible. I used to play wc3 before sc2 came out, and I was in bronze whilst learning all the tech trees and etc. After I learnt to hold off cheeses, got into platinum, eventually diamond. Hit top of diamond early in season 2. I guess I'm almost there, in only one season of play too. Don't give up, keep trying, learning about things you're having trouble with, and dealing with them accordingly.
On July 19 2011 17:09 seefernando wrote: To all the Bronze to Master players, Was there ever that " OH man! thats what I'm missing" moment? When did you start noticing major changes in your play? What did you start doing really different?
Technically, I'm a silver-to-diamond player, not a bronze-to-master player. I had a couple years of WC3 experience keeping me from the low end, and my offspring and job keep me from the high end.
I have these moments constantly, and each one has been accompanied by an improvement in my game, followed by a plateau in which I'm consolidating everything I've learned.
The first big one was Day[9]'s "build pylons, build probes." That literally got me from silver to platinum. The next one was also Day[9]'s fault, when I started actually practicing build orders to get my timings crisp, and analyzing the differences between my replays and those of pros doing similar builds.
Most recently I realized that I was getting supply blocked much more often than I was aware (two supply blocks == losing one battle), so I'm back to "build pylons, build probes." And my pace was simply too slow - I was taking my third and teching several minutes slower than I could have.
I think these realizations are part of the development of players at every level (at least, players who are improving). The further you get, the more refined they become. Bronze players are moving up when they realize they can attack-move, and the top pros are realizing that they can do this before that and end up with the 8 gas they need to get the upgrade their timing is built around 5 seconds faster.
It is very possible, but here, have some guidelines:
1. play 2-10 games per day, the point is that you should play every day, and you should play about as much every day, if you feel you won't have time for 10 games per day, then don't and play 5 instead, if you don't have time for that, play 2, you understand what I mean. whatever you do, don't think "Ill just play 30 games in the weekend and nothing during weekdays", you will learn more from playing 10 games over a week than 50 in a day.
2. mechanics > everything else. this cannot be emphathized enough, there is absolutely no point in trying to do fancy stuff if you just don't have the multitasking to do it.
3. avoid cheesing. cheesing helps you very little, holding of a cheese helps you a lot more.
4. have 1 build/gameplan per matchup and concentrate on nailing those, this will automaticly force you to improve your mechanics, thus strengthening other builds you attempt later.
5. keep healthy. this is very very important, a brain in a malnourished/insomniactic body have a much harder time learning than one in a healthy body. next time you feel you are hungry but just wan't to play "one more game" just stop playing for the day and go eat your fill. minimum of 6-7 hours of sleep every day. turning the biological clock does not help you at all in the long run so avoid staying up late enough that it can be called early.
6. have a well-rounded diet. this is closely connected to #5
Yes, it is definitely possible. But then again, not everyone can make it. You just got to work decently hard for it. Just get a few builds down, and repeat it over and over. I mean, it might sound cheesy, but just do 100 games straight of pure 4gate. Eventually, you'll learn which units are good against your opponent's army. When you lose games, watch the replay and see where you can improve. Try to spend all your money, and not get supply-blocked.
4gate should easily get you into platinum and maybe even diamond. At this point, you may start seeing your win percentages drop due to getting match with better players. From there, you can experiment with other builds.. maybe dts, maybe blink stalkers, maybe some form of FE. Keep repeating your builds over and over till you "master" it. Once you're in diamond league, zone in on the problems you are having most with- can you keep your money below 500?, can you use force fields effectively? can you micro well in general? Whatever troubles you have, practice those. Go into the game thinking, "Ok, this game I want to focus on keeping my minerals below 500." In your mind, keep repeating "below 500 minerals, below 500 minerals" and really make it a goal to keep it under 500. Keep on doing little things like these, and before you know it.. you have a bunch of nice tools in your toolbox.
Honestly, I made it into masters by watching the pros, and copying their builds. After that it's just a lot of practice. I think it's easy to make it to masters, but again, it is not for everyone. It's all about how much time and thought you put into the game.
Alright seefernando, I really reccomend starting to watch day9 if you haven't. The daily where he coaches djwheat is very good, along with #252 should really help you start off.
Second, I personally reccommend against GRID hotkeys and I think standard are much better as to remembering the buildings instead of the placement inside of the building box.
Third, Just practice really simple and specific things like play against the AI and practice just not getting supply blocked and making probes constantly all game.
Then learn some good builds by watching some replays ( sc2rep is a good site) like maybe one for each matchup since you're playing protoss and really practice those and get those down.
Another thing if you watch the day9 daily live, do not pay attention to the chat lol. Try to pay attention to the mechanical aspect of the game and just simple things like oh why did I lose, oh crap I didn't make probes for 10 minutes kind of thing. Do not just jump off into theory crafting and hopping into stradegy, I find that the biggest problem in players trying to get better at starcraft 2.
What another poster said was to stare at the top right, I really don't recommend that what you should be doing is just taking a glance at the top right checking your supply money/gas to see whether you need a pylon/supply depot or need to throw own a structure etc. then look at the main screen then just stare at the minimap while you macro take a glance at your supply and money then back to the minimap. At your level all you basicly need to do is 1 a your army to attack the enemy and stop paying attention and go back to macroing.
On July 19 2011 16:53 seefernando wrote: Hello everyone,
I'm kinda worried about making this post as TL seems very hardcore about irrelevant post and banning people...
Let me start with saying that I am a Noob. I Suck at SC2 and I suck at video games in general.
There is just something about SC2 that makes me want to improve. I want to be able to predict what my opponent is doing. The rush of holding off a 6 pool and walking in with colossus is amazing!
I want to get into the Masters league. That is my goal. I want my mechanics and macro so perfect that I never get supply blocked or miss a warp in.
I've read a lot of post and talked to a lot of people about my skill level and my abilities.
I want your input. I really want this to be a community experiment. Is it possible for a bronze leguer to get to Masters?
I'm not looking for a miracle. I know it won't happen overnight. But with your help it can happen efficiently.
Yes I have read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208343 and numerous other posts on TL and B.Net, and I am willing to do whatever it takes to get me to masters. I don't want to cheese my way there. I genuinely want to change the way I think, play and act in SC2.
So basically, HELP ME!!!
<3
Thanks
NomNomNom
This is certainly possible. I coached my little brother who had almost no prior RTS experience from silver to master on EU in two weeks. I think it's possible, esp when you play P which my brother also does.
Sure it is possible. If you take enough time that is fairly easy. I've no particular skill for video games, I'm rather pretty unskilled TT, I'm in master tho. Just because I played Wc3 for years, and laddered a lot in the season 1 of Sc2 (around 1000 solos in 6 months).
Let's be clear, if you're a normal guy who won't play 6 hours a day, you're not going to get into master next month, maybe not even next year. But if you still play, watch enough top players' games, you will sooner or later have the level to be in.
1st when you reach master league you will get supply blocked plenty of times i can assure you The mechanics of master players are nowhere near perfect most of them cheese their way anyway.. if you reach master you will get supply blocked a lot if you want to become good you have to learn how to play solid if you want just to reach master league just pick terran and cheese
I'm actually going to be PM'ing all of you asap for more details on what you've posted.
Here are some general Replies as I see them pop up a lot.
1) I do Watch Day[9], pretty regiliously actually
2) I do watch and read A LOT (but I have trouble retaining/extracting what I need at my level from those post and VODs)
3) I will NOT cheese my way to the top, as I found the 7 RR cheesy. Look what I got from 7RR to gold, nothing... I just caught so many players off guard. At the plat level they all seemed to know how to counter it.
4) I want to improve the way I think and play SC2. I want to change the FUNDAMENTALS.
5)This is not about one race being OP. I eventually want to play Random, so race is not the issue. my main issue is my mentality, drive and MECHANICS
Keep it coming!! I'm getting really motivated by all the testimonials! I'm honestly so happy that my goals are attainable with work!
When Season 1 started i was bronze, had no idea what i was doing. Before the end of season 1 i was diamond for 1v1, random 2s, random 3s, random 4s in both servers.
Now at the end of season 2 i am high diamond 1v1 and masters 2s, masters 3s and masters4.
i dont play a lot of ladder, i play more customs with friends, but i am very often beating masters and even a couple grandmasters in 1v1.
I aim to be a high masters 1v1 player through out season 3.
This is how i improved:
1) Watch casters - Day9 and Husky were great for me, casting pro games really helped me understand thigns better 2) read up on Teamliquid - strategies, build orders 3) Practice, practice, practice
On July 19 2011 16:53 seefernando wrote: Hello everyone,
I'm kinda worried about making this post as TL seems very hardcore about irrelevant post and banning people...
Let me start with saying that I am a Noob. I Suck at SC2 and I suck at video games in general.
There is just something about SC2 that makes me want to improve. I want to be able to predict what my opponent is doing. The rush of holding off a 6 pool and walking in with colossus is amazing!
I want to get into the Masters league. That is my goal. I want my mechanics and macro so perfect that I never get supply blocked or miss a warp in.
I've read a lot of post and talked to a lot of people about my skill level and my abilities.
I want your input. I really want this to be a community experiment. Is it possible for a bronze leguer to get to Masters?
I'm not looking for a miracle. I know it won't happen overnight. But with your help it can happen efficiently.
Yes I have read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208343 and numerous other posts on TL and B.Net, and I am willing to do whatever it takes to get me to masters. I don't want to cheese my way there. I genuinely want to change the way I think, play and act in SC2.
So basically, HELP ME!!!
<3
Thanks
NomNomNom
To answer your question, yes it is possible to achieve your dream of going from bronze to Masters. I know because, I did it myself. it was a very, very ,very ,very, very , very, very , very long journey. I can highlight to you my personal hardships along the way.
I started at rank 98 bronze. (I had played starcraft 1, but only on N64 and I thought I was pretty good.) From about bronze to Silver league rank 1, i literally massed void rays every game. At this point I hit a wall, and a friend of mine I know outside of SC2 showed me the 4 gate. He showed it to me and said do this every game. So I did, and actually went from silver to mid platinum. That is when I decided to actually learn the game. At this point I had to learn unit counters, different build orders, strengths of other races, and BASIC timings.
After a few months of just improving basic components of my play I advanced to Diamond league. I hit the wall in diamond league too many times to count. Diamond to Master is the most difficult jump to make. To truly make the jump from Diamond to Master you need to not only master your race, but master the other races. You need to read starcraft 2 strategy forum and sc2 general on this website religiously. I am talking multiple times a day. You must ladder, ladder, ladder, and try at all costs to not tilt. When you tilt you will lose to stupid things, you normally do not and it is not helpful for your development as a player. The last thing I can reccomend to you, is to find friends that are better than you. I got to masters by having supportive friends around me, who could help me and tell me when i was doing stupid things. You need these people to point out your flaws, so you can work on them and not be mad when they tell you. I wish you the best of luck, but it is possible and do not give up.
Just remember - Metora (Bronze league rank 98) - Metora (Master League)
I feel that the best way to get out of the low leagues is to learn the "all-in" builds of your race. If your Zerg (like I am), you learn to do the roach all in against every protoss and terran you see and do ling/baneling against other zergs. After you get to around gold league the builds should be engraved in your skull by then so you just execute without thinking and can focus on improving your micro with your attacking units. Around gold league the "all-in" builds will start being less effective so you will need to start to learn the general opening builds and try going into the midgame where you will end up going 2 base muta, 3 hatch hydra, ect. At first those builds will be hard to win with as you are used to fast all in games but with enough patience and practice it will pay off. This should take you to plat where from there you will start having to focus on mechanics like using larvae at the right times, controlling the queens and spreading creep. Your focus will be to get good at long macro games and then trying to get good at winning them. This should take you to master league as you know the allin builds and the macro builds. Now along the build order progression from bronze to masters you will have to improve your mechanics like using your queens energy efficiently, control your army while producing units. Things like that combined with mastery of a few core builds and a better sense of the game will help you gradually get to that master league level. Don't worry too much about artificially raising your apm (like selecting workers really fast, ect) because if you are doing everything well and no unit is idle or being useless your apm should be high enough anyways. As many other have said, generally looking at your replays and just playing allot will help you improve allot faster. Good luck! I'm currently trying to get back to masters after a hiatus which caused me to go on a massive losing streak to take me to plat.
Starcraft 2 was my first rts and I had to grind from bronze to diamond. The major things I found out that helped were
1. Watch streamed coaching sessions and take notes yourself
2. Watch Day [9] (by now this is a given since you said you watch is religiously)
3. Watch pro matches and study their builds not in a aspect of unit composition but by why they are doing that certain build because of map, opponent's race, and spawn positions
4. Play the game! (I used to watch streams like Sen and Idra out of enjoyment and I realized I watch more than i played.
5. Get good at "unit guessing" this is when you try to guess in the early, mid, and late game how much stuff your opponent has.
6. Play for a longer game and refine your mechanics.
I started in the beta playing terran, with no real multiplayer rts experience and was terrible at the game. I was VERY bronze. But I've worked in it over the last year and changed race. Now 1500 or so games later, im a mid masters player. So of course you can do it, it just takes a lot of work and research (watching replays and pro games).
I started in bronze and now am high diamond. Just practice and try not to make the same dumb decision more than once. Get good at analyzing replays and play lots. Your mechanics will improve with time.
Play a game vs the very easy ai until 10 minutes. Do this every week as to get a benchmark on how your macro is improving.
It's good that you're noob now. Learn to play with good habits. Make a hotkey set up that really lets you do everything you could dream of. I never use to think i'd play games where I'd want 2 control groups for drops and 3 for my army, but that's the way it is now, and it can be tough to get use to new set ups. Also make good habits of using camera hotkeys (ctrl f2 f3 etc). These mechanics are all bumps, and you'll want them to come in the early days, not later. Learning to use camera hotkeys and multiple control groups is still something i struggle with.
So its 5am here and I have work in 4 hours... F... M... L...
Anyways, I got on skype with a few people from this thread and we've come up with an idea.
So to re-cap, I suck... I don't want to be selfish and just improve myself. I want to improve in a way that will help the SC2 community.
Any ideas on how I can do this? I'm thinking making a blog and posting replays will work. This will be for my own personal review and to keep me accountable to myself. Although getting your feedback will be AMAZING!
I will do my best to document my journey so that others can make the same one.
Thank you so much for all the tips and ideas so far. I will be messaging you! So be warned! if you post in this thread you will be harassed by me wanting to pull every piece of SC2 knowledge out of you! *end stalker mode*
Goodnight/Goodevening/Goodmorning (where ever you are)
-NNN (B.Net ID is NomNomNom.280 haha for those that have asked :D)
best way to learn fast is to get coached or to ONLY watch vods of HIGH level analysis and learning What to do and When. Obviously, at bronze level the high level anaylsis won't apply to you, but it will get you thinking in a way that masters players think and if you can think like a masters player then you will certainly improve like one as long as you keep up the practice and play consistently.
I recommend watching people like Huk, Artosis, Tyler and any other top notch pro player who streams a lot. Streaming IMO, is the best way to learn because not only do you see what they do, but how they do it (how fast they are actually playing and what they are specifically clicking on)
It's definitely possible. All it takes is dedication.
I started playing SC2 in April this year (my first RTS), and I was placed into silver. My life has been engulfed by SC2 since, and not a day goes by without reading, watching or playing it. Currently I'm in Platinum, playing against quite a few diamonds.
Just remember there's so much information out there to learn from absolute beginner level, to advance levels. There's recommended threads from TL, Liquidpedia, Day9, Mr.Bitter (zerg), competitive replays, gsl to name a few.
I'll be honest it won't be a smooth ride, but it definitely can be fun and enjoyable. Good luck on the journey to Masters. See you there!
Edit: Feel free to pm me if you have any questions.
It's entirely possible. SCII was the first RTS game I've ever played. When I bought my account I lost (no jokes) my first 17 1v1's in a row. So yeh obviously I was stuck in Bronze for quite a while. Now I'm mid diamond and it actually went quite fast after I got promoted to silver. In my opinion just focus really hard on mechanics in the lower leagues since those will win you the game, buildorders aren't that important yet since ur opponents are most likely gonna do stupid shit with bad mechanics. So if you have better mechanics you should win most of ur games.
On July 19 2011 17:09 seefernando wrote: Is there any way people play?
To all the Bronze to Master players, Was there ever that " OH man! thats what I'm missing" moment? When did you start noticing major changes in your play? What did you start doing really different?
MUSIC i always, ALWAYS play better with music. it's all about preference really, some people play better with music, some better with maybe a friend next to them or even doing stretches before a game (i also do this one) it's your choise really
it's good that you have a good attitude towards your play, but really the only way to get better is to learn from your mistakes, so play a game. If you win watch the replay, see what you could've done better so maybe you would have 110% secured your win, if you loose do the same but look at what you did wrong and improve on that
I've seen people play in masters that play like shitty bronze noobs all the way.
Look at your replays and judge yourself or let friends judge your playstyle. The ladder ranking is only capable of judging how much you play, not if you actually play well. If you get shitty opponents and win all the time, you get to masters. If you have bad luck you stay in bronze. However, you can get into masters without even improving...
So yea, start to mass ladder and you'll eventually get to masters. How long it will take depends on how much luck you have.
But if you actually want to get better, I suggest to practice efficently. How this is done... you have to figure it out yourself.
It's a pretty good guide on how to improve and applying some of the methods has, for me anyways, made me much more confident in games if not improved my skill.
One of the things the guide says is to take a very standard opener + transition from a pro (ex 11/12 rax to blueflame in TvZ) and then just practice that against a computer and compare yourself to the pro you're imitating. Make sure you're always making workers and getting supply. Note the timings of your buildings compared to the pro and supply count etc etc.
There's a lot more in that guide so you should take some time to read it.
On July 19 2011 17:09 tuukster wrote: Anything is possible, if you just want it badly.
Even though you must master all the aspects of the game, you can still see rapid development in your mechanics by focusing your training on them. I would recommend that you first become a master in very basic things and leave the strategical grand schemes for later. Don't try to master everything at once. You can climb up to platinum/diamond by simply never being supply blocked and always producing units. Having way more units than your opponent counters most tactics/openings/builds.
Just focus your eyes on the upper-right corner most of the time and you'll be fine. Minerals, gas and supply count are the most important things in the whole game. You don't need to stare a battle for 20 seconds. Looking at the minimap is also more important than gazing at all the battles.
These are some really good tips.
Day9 is the best source for improoving if you listen good to what he says, he focuses a lot on training specific simple things. Like only focusing on not getting supply blocked for a week or two.
I did this and lost a ton of games during those two weeks, but after that i was supply blocked a lot less than before those two weeks and i felt more comfortable. The most important part of it was me being more aware of my supply afterwards. Before it i usually always kept two scv's building all the time and a third now and then, but being more aware of it, made me comfortable always rallying back to the mineral lines after building and i didn't keep making supply depots after big battles when i didn't need them and so on.
Focusing a lot on the small things will pay back greatly in the end.
Also focusing on economic openings and taking some risks is the point where i started rappidly improoving. I used to go for timings and all ins a lot early to great success, but it backfired when i started experimenting with other builds as i was too high ranked for my macro and mechanics at the time.
As a last note, don't be too worried about where you are on the ladder, i struggled and still struggle with this. If you want to improove on a new aspect of your play, it will be hard at first which means you will loose a lot of games before slowly climbing again.
As a note after the last note, i would reccomend to keep playing and don't get too distracted by streams and turnaments, i spend way too much time viewing gsl/nasl and streams to play enough myself. And when you play, focus on specific small parts of your play as mentioned, and don't just play to play.
Hope this helps and remember to enjoy the game! :-)
On July 19 2011 17:09 seefernando wrote: Is there any way people play?
To all the Bronze to Master players, Was there ever that " OH man! thats what I'm missing" moment? When did you start noticing major changes in your play? What did you start doing really different?
I started out in bronze in December, I'm high diamond now. To start off I was low bronze, no real rts experience. I watched trumps 2rax stim push and learned it by heart, this got me into plat eventually, to get from gold to plat I also began incorporating drops, which often times outright won the game. I'd say the biggest change I did on my play to get into diamond was a faster third, this was kinda new to me (just having a 3rd up around 12min under normal circumstances).
On July 19 2011 17:09 seefernando wrote: Is there any way people play?
To all the Bronze to Master players, Was there ever that " OH man! thats what I'm missing" moment? When did you start noticing major changes in your play? What did you start doing really different?
i've done the copper - masters run and i think the majour change for me happened in gold league where i set a goal for myself and picked one fairly universally viable opening.
i opened 14gas/14pool in every game and tried to have a third up by the 11 minute mark. lucky for me this was still early into release to muta/ling was still pretty viable vs p and z. despite all that, it is a curious fact that every single rank up i've ever had came after a baneling bust. >_>
i also started watching commentary and anlysis specific to my race as well as the usual day9 stuff. so i spent alot of time in psystarcrafts youtube channel and later on with mrbitters 12 weeks with the pros.
that said i still have alot to learn, i still dont even hotkey my units or queens. -.-
seefernando i played since beta i was actually cooper league when i was starting now im master league my advice is: play lot of games until you get like to gold or plat than watch day[9] dailies, streams and than start watching replays observe watch what you have done wrong, decision, build order etc. gl in improving
It's very possible to go from bronze to masters, I've personally done this. The main way to improve your play would be to get the basic idea from streams and people who know how to play. Personally I've gotten better by looking at people who stream, and then just note down (in my head mainly) the build orders and how they go.
You won't get the macro right away, that comes with practice, and really practice is what you need to really improve your macro, there isn't really any other way to do that. But the best advice I can give would be to watch a favorite streamer, (Generally someone that you wouldn't mind watching for a little while at a time, I would suggest a good entertaining streamer) and mentally note down timings, builds, and general strategies and try to eminate them.
When you get the mechanics and the basics down, it's best to try and develop yourself, and look at replays on what you would need to work on.
Don't worry, it's very possible, and generally if you play enough, you'll get there faster than you think.
On July 19 2011 17:09 seefernando wrote: Is there any way people play?
To all the Bronze to Master players, Was there ever that " OH man! thats what I'm missing" moment? When did you start noticing major changes in your play? What did you start doing really different?
MUSIC i always, ALWAYS play better with music. it's all about preference really, some people play better with music, some better with maybe a friend next to them or even doing stretches before a game (i also do this one) it's your choise really
it's good that you have a good attitude towards your play, but really the only way to get better is to learn from your mistakes, so play a game. If you win watch the replay, see what you could've done better so maybe you would have 110% secured your win, if you loose do the same but look at what you did wrong and improve on that
Thats scary advice; as music takes away from your concentration at times and can make you miss something important.
Sometimes (depending on the genre of music) I miss a dropship in the back of my base or hearing the "Probes under attack" warning from it.. so I chose only to play music on ladder; any tournaments I dont play music.
Im sure you can make it bro. Im currently silver and learning quickly. My MMR is gold - plat so soon ill be there. As pointed out in this topic alot: allins. I don't think there the way to go (Im a zerg player by heart tho, i love to macro it up) Just work on your macro, scouting and remember to expand and make plenty of probes when safe to. This will take you along way, ive beat diamond level friends even with my poor micro from just out macroing, scouting (Knowing whats heading my way) and countering effectively. Good luck mate.
I'm only high plat but I have a friend who is masters now who, in beta, was copper. It is definatly possible with ALOT of practice and the right attitude. Hell, even I started in bronze and I'm almost diamond.
On July 19 2011 16:53 seefernando wrote:this to be a community experiment. Is it possible for a bronze leguer to get to Masters?
I did it in about six to six and a half months as a zerg on SEA. Once I hit diamond on SEA, I also got diamond on NA. Yet again, when I got masters on SEA, I got masters on NA as well.
Its completely possible that you can get to masters faster, depending on how efficiently and consistently you practice, and also the amount of time you decide to commit. I got this far by playing pretty much daily, with about 4-5 ladder games minimum.
Basically, if I can do it, you should be able to as well.
It's possible as long as you don't play Zerg. I'm serious, please argue against me as to why Zerg wouldn't be a bad choice for a bronze league player who wants to become Masters in a relatively short amount of time (within a year?). Protoss and Terran are just so much more straight forward and mechanically less demanding than Zerg. Not to mention the fact that you won't have to deal with losing to oddball all-in attacks, strange timing rushes every other game that you would have playing Zerg.
I have a friend who plays Terran, he started out as a bronze league player and he is now Masters. Like with many other people I just don't understand how he was able to make it and stay in Masters while there are so many other competent Terrans who are forever doomed to stay in Diamond until they can consistently stay on a winning streak against Mid Master players. I'm really happy for him for getting into Masters, really impressed as well since he started out as bronze. But looking at his mechanics and some holes in his play seriously frustrates me to no end when I'm stuck in Diamond, unable to play more than 2-3 hours each day. I don't want to blame it on my race, I believe that 90% of the reason why I can't get into Masters is due my incompetence, 9% due to bad luck, then maybe JUST MAYBE 1% is because my race has so many loose ends that I must adapt to in order to succeed.
I actually want to be proven wrong btw... it is much much less frustrating when you understand why exactly you are failing.
On July 19 2011 22:08 Snuggles wrote: It's possible as long as you don't play Zerg. I'm serious, please argue against me as to why Zerg wouldn't be a bad choice for a bronze league player who wants to become Masters in a relatively short amount of time (within a year?). Protoss and Terran are just so much more straight forward and mechanically less demanding than Zerg. Not to mention the fact that you won't have to deal with losing to oddball all-in attacks, strange timing rushes every other game that you would have playing Zerg.
I have a friend who plays Terran, he started out as a bronze league player and he is now Masters. Like with many other people I just don't understand how he was able to make it and stay in Masters while there are so many other competent Terrans who are forever doomed to stay in Diamond until they can consistently stay on a winning streak against Mid Master players. I'm really happy for him for getting into Masters, really impressed as well since he started out as bronze. But looking at his mechanics and some holes in his play seriously frustrates me to no end when I'm stuck in Diamond, unable to play more than 2-3 hours each day. I don't want to blame it on my race, I believe that 90% of the reason why I can't get into Masters is due my incompetence, 9% due to bad luck, then maybe JUST MAYBE 1% is because my race has so many loose ends that I must adapt to in order to succeed.
I actually want to be proven wrong btw... it is much much less frustrating when you understand why exactly you are failing.
Okay quick overview just for you:
Important things to look at as zerg: Larvae, Queens Energy, evo chambers, lair/hive, creep spread, overlord pos, standards(supply etc), amount of workers / bases ... Important things to look at as terran: barracks + tech lab, factory + tech lab, star port + tech lab, energy on CCs, workers/CCs, scanning/muling, amount of prod. all facilities, standards ... Important things to look at as protoss: nexus energy, nexus/CC, gateways/warpins, robo, stargate, forge, core, amount of prod. all facilities, templar archive, robobay ...
Micro methods for zerg: muta, infestor, army spread, banelings, queens, surrounding, burrowed stuff... micro methods for terran: marine spread, dropping, tankspread / stutter step, EMPs, micro methods for protoss: forcefields, army positioning/fight positioning, storms, feedbacks, blink,...
Scouting applies for all 3 races. etc. So...why again is zerg so much harder to play? You want us to prove that you are wrong. How about YOU prove that you are right? Because right now i just see "anecdotal evidence".
Please, back your statements up. Or, if you don't have anything to back it up, just leave this topic out of here.
You will have to be very strong mentally to accomplish this. When your starting out in Bronze, everything you have to learn will seem very overwhelming so focus on a few key things rather than everything as a whole. For example, maybe start off with im going to learn all the hotkeys for every unit and upgrade and vow to never use my mouse or im going to keep constant worker production ( applies only to terran and toss) rather than trying to macro and micro perfectly right off the bat.
Also expect to lose more than 50% of your starting out, and plan to lose hundreds more likely thousands before you ever get to the masters league. But getting frustrated over these losses will just cause you to lose your motivation, you must realize that these losses are your biggest tool to getting better. Learning from your mistakes to never make the same error again will reduce many errors.
Additionally, a lot of learning must come outside the game. You will need to start watching a lot of Day[9] to start and a lot of GSL and GSTL to try to gain an understanding of the game and why pros are doing what there doing and how they make these decisions.
GL HF in your journey it will probably be a long one! Keep us posted.
I'm a kind of semi-active gamer who didn't play BW and went from Bronze - Masters. For me Diamond - Masters was by far the hardest jump: Bronze-Diamond took 3 months, then Diamond-Master another 5.
I basically jumped from Bronze-Gold when I watched Day9 talk about probes and pylons. Then I jumped from Gold-Diamond when I realised my macro was still god awful.
Diamond - Masters was just... playing, trying to identify my weakest points. Overall I have really low APM, my multi-tasking sucks, my army control is *terrible*, and I still get supply blocked and forget probes. But if you can identify why you keep losing, you can work on it.
I belong to a clan where I regularly get to see lower-league players play. Especially watching gold-low diamond players, I notice that sometimes their macro is better than mine, they do multi-pronged attacks like I cannot, and especially they control their army better than I do. But typically there are one or two particularly glaring weaknesses in their play that I've managed to iron out in mine, and I think that's the difference between them and me.
On July 19 2011 22:08 Snuggles wrote: It's possible as long as you don't play Zerg. I'm serious, please argue against me as to why Zerg wouldn't be a bad choice for a bronze league player who wants to become Masters in a relatively short amount of time (within a year?). Protoss and Terran are just so much more straight forward and mechanically less demanding than Zerg. Not to mention the fact that you won't have to deal with losing to oddball all-in attacks, strange timing rushes every other game that you would have playing Zerg.
I have a friend who plays Terran, he started out as a bronze league player and he is now Masters. Like with many other people I just don't understand how he was able to make it and stay in Masters while there are so many other competent Terrans who are forever doomed to stay in Diamond until they can consistently stay on a winning streak against Mid Master players. I'm really happy for him for getting into Masters, really impressed as well since he started out as bronze. But looking at his mechanics and some holes in his play seriously frustrates me to no end when I'm stuck in Diamond, unable to play more than 2-3 hours each day. I don't want to blame it on my race, I believe that 90% of the reason why I can't get into Masters is due my incompetence, 9% due to bad luck, then maybe JUST MAYBE 1% is because my race has so many loose ends that I must adapt to in order to succeed.
I actually want to be proven wrong btw... it is much much less frustrating when you understand why exactly you are failing.
lol, please don't jack the thread with skill cap discussions.
Yes, it's entirely possible, people come into this game with entirely different levels of play ranging from "wut's an RTS?" to "I played BW professionally". As long as you put the effort into improving and continue to work on improving the weaker aspects of your play, you can definitely get promoted to masters! You just need to put the practice in and you will improve, but the effort you put in is what determines whether you'll be the 2000 1v1's played bronze-leaguer or a masters with a couple hundred games played.
On July 19 2011 17:09 seefernando wrote: Is there any way people play?
To all the Bronze to Master players, Was there ever that " OH man! thats what I'm missing" moment? When did you start noticing major changes in your play? What did you start doing really different?
This occurred to me several times, and is actually something you'll see the more you improve. StarCraft 2 is a game of plateaus- as you reach a new one you'll notice an improvement in your play. You will stagnate at some point, and then you'll find a new thing you improve on which sends you back to a winning trend.
For me personally, Always making workers, Not getting supply blocked, decent unit control, checking the minimap frequently, appropriate production facilities. These were my first few goals I set to get better, and as I improved at each one, I noticed the same trend I explained above.
Practice partners is a great way to improve, as massing games really is the best way to do so (as long as you're working on your overall game as you do it).
On July 19 2011 17:24 seefernando wrote: So I just got a PM that I should post replays and comment on them and how I felt about them myself.
Is that something I should do? I just feel like I'm gonna make more Fodder for the forums.
Honestly though I feel that may SC2 related forums are not as Newbie friendly. Anyone else feel that?
I want to improve and document it so that others can do the same as well.
Yes. Posting replays here allows the rest of the community to help analyze your replays with you, and helps you get the most out of each replay. Also, the forums are surprisingly newb friendly, so long as you either a. post in the general b. have a well though out newb post in the strategy forum. It's only the bronze leaguer who posts in the strat forum "IM SO BAD HELP ME PLS X RACE IS TOO HARD" that gets flamed- and deservedly so.
On July 19 2011 22:08 Snuggles wrote: It's possible as long as you don't play Zerg. I'm serious, please argue against me as to why Zerg wouldn't be a bad choice for a bronze league player who wants to become Masters in a relatively short amount of time (within a year?). Protoss and Terran are just so much more straight forward and mechanically less demanding than Zerg. Not to mention the fact that you won't have to deal with losing to oddball all-in attacks, strange timing rushes every other game that you would have playing Zerg.
I have a friend who plays Terran, he started out as a bronze league player and he is now Masters. Like with many other people I just don't understand how he was able to make it and stay in Masters while there are so many other competent Terrans who are forever doomed to stay in Diamond until they can consistently stay on a winning streak against Mid Master players. I'm really happy for him for getting into Masters, really impressed as well since he started out as bronze. But looking at his mechanics and some holes in his play seriously frustrates me to no end when I'm stuck in Diamond, unable to play more than 2-3 hours each day. I don't want to blame it on my race, I believe that 90% of the reason why I can't get into Masters is due my incompetence, 9% due to bad luck, then maybe JUST MAYBE 1% is because my race has so many loose ends that I must adapt to in order to succeed.
I actually want to be proven wrong btw... it is much much less frustrating when you understand why exactly you are failing.
You should always try to avoid blaming your race for everything. As a zerg turned protoss since beta, I don't argue at all the zerg is the most mechanically demanding race to play at the highest level, or necessarily that there isn't a flimsy nature to the zerg early game. That being said, some of the best players in the world play zerg. It isn't unfixable. As you said, you aren't in masters for a reason. I think it would be more prudent to address the problems you have stopping you from reaching that level, rather than to compare yourself to your friends. And to use the same advice I gave the OP- practice games! + Show Spoiler +
for example, if you have a hard time with the high pressure "coinflip" (using quotes because it's not my opinion) nature of early game Zerg- i'll guess it's ZvT- then get a practice partner and grind out 20 straight 2rax bunker rushers until you figure it out. This DOES help.
You can easily get from bronze to master. I got from bronze to diamond in 1.5 month and from bronze to Master in 4 months. Two things you need to do: 1. Play and practise a lot! 2. Watch a lot of other people play, do this by watching commentaries, livestreams. Maybe try to join clan, there are a lot of low level clans, they can provide you a lot of practise partners and you can talk about tactics with them.
I Went from copper to masters (yes copper, back when that was below bronze). I stalled at diamond for a while and then raised my game through practice and reached masters.
If you keep practising and building on what you learn, you will go a long way. I think every player is capable of reaching atleast diamond, and most could reach masters. After that however there is a huge gulf between your average masters player like me, and the top top players and i think to get there would require some innate apptitude in addition to hard work.
On July 19 2011 18:48 KeksX wrote: I've seen people play in masters that play like shitty bronze noobs all the way.
Look at your replays and judge yourself or let friends judge your playstyle. The ladder ranking is only capable of judging how much you play, not if you actually play well. If you get shitty opponents and win all the time, you get to masters. If you have bad luck you stay in bronze. However, you can get into masters without even improving...
So yea, start to mass ladder and you'll eventually get to masters. How long it will take depends on how much luck you have.
But if you actually want to get better, I suggest to practice efficently. How this is done... you have to figure it out yourself.
This is complete rubbish, league is very representative of skill in broad terms. A masters player could pick up a bronze account and be back to masters inless than 50 games. A bronze player is in bronze because he/she cannot yet consistently beat people in higher leagues.
Ladder is only an unreliable messure of skill for top GM/pros.
On July 19 2011 17:09 tuukster wrote: I would recommend that you first become a master in very basic things and leave the strategical grand schemes for later. Don't try to master everything at once. You can climb up to platinum/diamond by simply never being supply blocked and always producing units. Having way more units than your opponent counters most tactics/openings/builds.
Pretty much what he said. Let me just add that a much faster way of pin-pointing those skills would be to go to create custom game, find "Multitasking Trainer", and do it 30-45 minutes a day, adjusting the difficulty accordingly.
Just by doing that, I improved from Bronze to Diamond in about 1½ week. It helps you since you are forced to learning to use hot keys and to sustain macro while performing other actions such as defending drops, or killing the enemies base. Highly recommend, would probably say it's the most efficient way of getting to Diamond, then you can start thinking strategy & builds.
On July 19 2011 22:08 Snuggles wrote: It's possible as long as you don't play Zerg. I'm serious, please argue against me as to why Zerg wouldn't be a bad choice for a bronze league player who wants to become Masters in a relatively short amount of time (within a year?). Protoss and Terran are just so much more straight forward and mechanically less demanding than Zerg. Not to mention the fact that you won't have to deal with losing to oddball all-in attacks, strange timing rushes every other game that you would have playing Zerg.
I have a friend who plays Terran, he started out as a bronze league player and he is now Masters. Like with many other people I just don't understand how he was able to make it and stay in Masters while there are so many other competent Terrans who are forever doomed to stay in Diamond until they can consistently stay on a winning streak against Mid Master players. I'm really happy for him for getting into Masters, really impressed as well since he started out as bronze. But looking at his mechanics and some holes in his play seriously frustrates me to no end when I'm stuck in Diamond, unable to play more than 2-3 hours each day. I don't want to blame it on my race, I believe that 90% of the reason why I can't get into Masters is due my incompetence, 9% due to bad luck, then maybe JUST MAYBE 1% is because my race has so many loose ends that I must adapt to in order to succeed.
I actually want to be proven wrong btw... it is much much less frustrating when you understand why exactly you are failing.
There are a lot of zerg players in masters, they are definately not underepresented, you just need to lift your game a little to make masters, it is often a long journey from diamond to masters, it was for me as toss.
I find that zerg players in particular almost always think they have outplayed me when they lose esp if they have more bases, i think this is just them not realising that the races are different and toss players have different objectives than a zerg. I lose plenty of games to other zerg players who truly outplay me, so i think there is a zerg imbalance perception which is not entirely in sync with reality.
Yeah it's possible, but it will take some time. I started as a bronze player at the late sc2 beta - 2 months ago I finally managed to reach the master league. You just have to play a lot (took my about 700 wins to reach master league) and watch some pro replays to prepare a build for every match up. IMO it's the best to stay with one race and one build(for every matchup).
So i play a LOT of games, but never competitively in any serious way. I played through the SC//BW/WC2/3 campaigns and played their custom games online, but never melee. Got placed into silver or gold in 1s after not playing any 1s in beta. I got into masters day 1 of season 2. Doable, but you have to find your strength and play to that. My mechanics are generally awful but once i found I was allowed to make more than 20 drones I went from gold to diamond fairly instantly. Now I win with macro and fairly horrible mechanics and awful micro. zerg ftw
Yea it's possible. I started out only playing team games It's best if you watch Day9 and have people coaching you, coupled by playing a lot. If you'd like any coaching or just advice hit me up either here or in-game :D Nemasyst 598
i went into diamond jsut before season 2 (started out in bronze without any rts experience) couldnt make the jump to masters tho unfortunately this season but im afraid i don't play enough 1-2 hours a day, and somedays not at all.
On July 19 2011 22:08 Snuggles wrote: It's possible as long as you don't play Zerg. I'm serious, please argue against me as to why Zerg wouldn't be a bad choice for a bronze league player who wants to become Masters in a relatively short amount of time (within a year?). Protoss and Terran are just so much more straight forward and mechanically less demanding than Zerg. Not to mention the fact that you won't have to deal with losing to oddball all-in attacks, strange timing rushes every other game that you would have playing Zerg.
I have a friend who plays Terran, he started out as a bronze league player and he is now Masters. Like with many other people I just don't understand how he was able to make it and stay in Masters while there are so many other competent Terrans who are forever doomed to stay in Diamond until they can consistently stay on a winning streak against Mid Master players. I'm really happy for him for getting into Masters, really impressed as well since he started out as bronze. But looking at his mechanics and some holes in his play seriously frustrates me to no end when I'm stuck in Diamond, unable to play more than 2-3 hours each day. I don't want to blame it on my race, I believe that 90% of the reason why I can't get into Masters is due my incompetence, 9% due to bad luck, then maybe JUST MAYBE 1% is because my race has so many loose ends that I must adapt to in order to succeed.
I actually want to be proven wrong btw... it is much much less frustrating when you understand why exactly you are failing.
You should always try to avoid blaming your race for everything. As a zerg turned protoss since beta, I don't argue at all the zerg is the most mechanically demanding race to play at the highest level, or necessarily that there isn't a flimsy nature to the zerg early game. That being said, some of the best players in the world play zerg. It isn't unfixable. As you said, you aren't in masters for a reason. I think it would be more prudent to address the problems you have stopping you from reaching that level, rather than to compare yourself to your friends. And to use the same advice I gave the OP- practice games! + Show Spoiler +
for example, if you have a hard time with the high pressure "coinflip" (using quotes because it's not my opinion) nature of early game Zerg- i'll guess it's ZvT- then get a practice partner and grind out 20 straight 2rax bunker rushers until you figure it out. This DOES help.
Hey thanks for the nice reply. In all honesty my post went a bit off topic merely through my frustration. I already knew I was setting myself up for a war, but my frustration got the better of me. At least I have the saving grace of knowing that people who didn't take my post too well haven't read in to it properly. But your advice actually further supports my opinion that Zerg isn't the easiest choice to have as your main race. You're going to have to lose many many times to silly things and figure out the most arbitrary timings for droning and tech just to not die. I'm saying that you will have to do this more often because of the volatile nature of the Zerg race. I'm quite sure that if we had STATISTICS that you all love, Zerg would most likely be the race that is most harrassed, all-in'd, and timing attacked in which you will obviously die if you don't react in an overwhelmingly one-sided fashion. As a result you may not have as much fun playing Zerg than you would as a Protoss 4gating in the bronze league (any league for that matter).
There is one thing I would like to take out of that post, and that is what I said about just not choosing Zerg as your main race. It's just as possible to reach Masters from bronze as any other race, its just that my views on how difficult it is and how mentally taxing it is to get there is different from others.
I really don't want to derail this thread with "skill cap" discussions. I don't think I have mentioned anything about mechanics so please don't bring them up KeksX. It's more like the relationship of each race to each other. If every race could deploy similar tactics and strategy with the same efficiency of other races this game would be quite boring wouldn't it? Some races have stronger early game openers that are possibly game-ending than other races. Because of that it will be more difficult to learn from the bottom up with one race, than it is with another. But let's not forget that the main reason for what race you pick is the one you will have the most fun with. Because although I get so flustered on the ladder playing Zerg, I am having more fun winning as Zerg than I would have playing Protoss. That is what is most important.
Best advice I can give is to get your mechanics up to par. As you work on builds and study things etc your knowledge of what you SHOULD be doing will be far higher than what you are actually able to do. I have probably played a couple hundred games vs. the very easy AI just working on timings, using my hotkeys, multitasking, etc. This was a great help for me and I really feel that you have to be solid mechanically before anything else. Even if you have the most genius build or strategy, it's no good without the execution (mechanics) to really make it work. Good luck!
I would say it will take about 700 games minimum for a complete noob to go from Bronze to Masters using a safe macro style with a single race.
But this mass gaming also needs to be in a style where you are playing to get better. There is a difference between "playing" and "playing to improve". Examples of playing to improve...
-Watching your replays, analysing why you lost -Practicing 1 safe, macro build per matchup for 95% of your games. It should be fully planned out up to 4+ bases at which point your natural starcraft instincs will have to take over (freeballing). -Visiting strategy forums -Watching (some key important) day 9 dailies and 12 weeks with the pro's -Watching replays of the best players in the world and copying them -Regularly practicing against players who are better than you
It's definately possible, but you will need to dedicate enough time to put in those 700 or so games, theres no way of avoiding that in my oppinion.
On July 20 2011 00:03 thepeonwhocould wrote: I would say it will take about 700 games minimum for a complete noob to go from Bronze to Masters.
But this mass gaming also needs to be in a style where you are playing to get better. There is a difference between playing to get better and just hitting play game over and over.
No, takes about ~150-200 if you have a solid game plan coming into season reset, perfect time to jump ladders.
I was a big 4v4 player in season 1 and was very disinterested in 1s because I didn't spend time watching and practicing and understanding builds(aka I was Bronze). I prepped before season 2 for a couple weeks. Came in strong into season 2 and went to masters in 2 weeks of solid play.
To the person that started this thread, it is an achievable dream and has been done. If you need any tips or help let me know.
I would focus on improving at the game instead of getting promoted. Think of being promoted as a sign that you are improving.
Focusing on improving is a much better way to progress, because its a lot less frustrating. If you focus on your league you'll probably end up like almost everyone else who focuses on their league does and think things like "I've been playing gold players and winning against them, but I am still in silver!" and that's an unproductive mindset. Then eventually you end up cheesing every game, but you're still not much better than you were when you were in lower leagues.
If you focus on improving you get the same satisfaction as you do from getting promoted, but it happens more regularly. For example I used to be really bad with banshees, so I opened banshees every TvT I played, and then after I while I started thinking "Wow my opponents are really bad at defending banshee harassment," but what had actually happened was I'd just got better. Then eventually you play better people who are better at countering what you do, but you improve again so you can beat them.
I've got a feeling everything I've said is parroting a newbie Tuesday from a few months ago, so maybe you can find that and watch it, and it'll probably tell you a lot more than I can.
Also just enjoy Starcraft. Watch streams or matches and if you see a build copy it, if you have fun playing the game you will want to play more, so you will improve faster.
On July 19 2011 22:08 Snuggles wrote: It's possible as long as you don't play Zerg. I'm serious, please argue against me as to why Zerg wouldn't be a bad choice for a bronze league player who wants to become Masters in a relatively short amount of time (within a year?). Protoss and Terran are just so much more straight forward and mechanically less demanding than Zerg. Not to mention the fact that you won't have to deal with losing to oddball all-in attacks, strange timing rushes every other game that you would have playing Zerg.
I have a friend who plays Terran, he started out as a bronze league player and he is now Masters. Like with many other people I just don't understand how he was able to make it and stay in Masters while there are so many other competent Terrans who are forever doomed to stay in Diamond until they can consistently stay on a winning streak against Mid Master players. I'm really happy for him for getting into Masters, really impressed as well since he started out as bronze. But looking at his mechanics and some holes in his play seriously frustrates me to no end when I'm stuck in Diamond, unable to play more than 2-3 hours each day. I don't want to blame it on my race, I believe that 90% of the reason why I can't get into Masters is due my incompetence, 9% due to bad luck, then maybe JUST MAYBE 1% is because my race has so many loose ends that I must adapt to in order to succeed.
I actually want to be proven wrong btw... it is much much less frustrating when you understand why exactly you are failing.
You should always try to avoid blaming your race for everything. As a zerg turned protoss since beta, I don't argue at all the zerg is the most mechanically demanding race to play at the highest level, or necessarily that there isn't a flimsy nature to the zerg early game. That being said, some of the best players in the world play zerg. It isn't unfixable. As you said, you aren't in masters for a reason. I think it would be more prudent to address the problems you have stopping you from reaching that level, rather than to compare yourself to your friends. And to use the same advice I gave the OP- practice games! + Show Spoiler +
for example, if you have a hard time with the high pressure "coinflip" (using quotes because it's not my opinion) nature of early game Zerg- i'll guess it's ZvT- then get a practice partner and grind out 20 straight 2rax bunker rushers until you figure it out. This DOES help.
Hey thanks for the nice reply. In all honesty my post went a bit off topic merely through my frustration. I already knew I was setting myself up for a war, but my frustration got the better of me. At least I have the saving grace of knowing that people who didn't take my post too well haven't read in to it properly. But your advice actually further supports my opinion that Zerg isn't the easiest choice to have as your main race. You're going to have to lose many many times to silly things and figure out the most arbitrary timings for droning and tech just to not die. I'm saying that you will have to do this more often because of the volatile nature of the Zerg race. I'm quite sure that if we had STATISTICS that you all love, Zerg would most likely be the race that is most harrassed, all-in'd, and timing attacked in which you will obviously die if you don't react in an overwhelmingly one-sided fashion. As a result you may not have as much fun playing Zerg than you would as a Protoss 4gating in the bronze league (any league for that matter).
There is one thing I would like to take out of that post, and that is what I said about just not choosing Zerg as your main race. It's just as possible to reach Masters from bronze as any other race, its just that my views on how difficult it is and how mentally taxing it is to get there is different from others.
I really don't want to derail this thread with "skill cap" discussions. I don't think I have mentioned anything about mechanics so please don't bring them up KeksX. It's more like the relationship of each race to each other. If every race could deploy similar tactics and strategy with the same efficiency of other races this game would be quite boring wouldn't it? Some races have stronger early game openers that are possibly game-ending than other races. Because of that it will be more difficult to learn from the bottom up with one race, than it is with another. But let's not forget that the main reason for what race you pick is the one you will have the most fun with. Because although I get so flustered on the ladder playing Zerg, I am having more fun winning as Zerg than I would have playing Protoss. That is what is most important.
That may be true, and I wouldn't dare engage in arguing about that haha, but I would caution you to think like that without doing some more thinking relative to the 3 races. Every race is pressured, in almost every game. Regardless of race, not pressuring an opponent of equal skill to you will lose you the game most often. The difference, and your complaint, is that the timings vs zerg are earlier in the game.
This is true, however, when the midgame rolls around, there is a span of time where an unharassed zerg player can easily jump 20-30 workers ahead of you, and just pour on the aggression while expanding until you crumble from that pressure. You'll rarely ever see that in high level games, mind you, and that is because most players will not let zergs get to that point. I won't argue that the trends in anti-zerg aggression are to do it in the early game, but again, that can be due (not solely, but in part) to the fact that the zerg larvae inject is so powerful.
A new player may not enjoy dealing with these <5 minute harass timings, or conversely, may enjoy the fact that they have a great opportunity for either a. intense micro early on or b. dominating macro later on. Several of my W3 friends took up zerg for that reason (they like to be always microing units).
TLDR; Zerg needs to be pressured or they win the game with superior economic mechanics (ie larvae). Zerg is a defensive race, with the least beefy fighting units, and is the only race that can't realistically play behind a full wall. This alone should make it obvious that zerg is at least slightly more difficult to start off with from a completely blank slate.
On July 20 2011 00:03 thepeonwhocould wrote: I would say it will take about 700 games minimum for a complete noob to go from Bronze to Masters.
But this mass gaming also needs to be in a style where you are playing to get better. There is a difference between playing to get better and just hitting play game over and over.
No, takes about ~150-200 if you have a solid game plan coming into season reset, perfect time to jump ladders.
I was a big 4v4 player in season 1 and was very disinterested in 1s because I didn't spend time watching and practicing and understanding builds(aka I was Bronze). I prepped before season 2 for a couple weeks. Came in strong into season 2 and went to masters in 2 weeks of solid play.
To the person that started this thread, it is an achievable dream and has been done. If you need any tips or help let me know.
No, you can't become a master level player in just 150-200 games. Thats 75-100 wins on ladder, basically nothing. You need 150 games just to get out of bronze and get into masters when you ARE ALREADY on masters level.
On July 20 2011 00:03 thepeonwhocould wrote: I would say it will take about 700 games minimum for a complete noob to go from Bronze to Masters.
But this mass gaming also needs to be in a style where you are playing to get better. There is a difference between playing to get better and just hitting play game over and over.
No, takes about ~150-200 if you have a solid game plan coming into season reset, perfect time to jump ladders.
I was a big 4v4 player in season 1 and was very disinterested in 1s because I didn't spend time watching and practicing and understanding builds(aka I was Bronze). I prepped before season 2 for a couple weeks. Came in strong into season 2 and went to masters in 2 weeks of solid play.
To the person that started this thread, it is an achievable dream and has been done. If you need any tips or help let me know.
You need time watching and practicing and understanding builds to get out of bronze? I may be wrong here but I am under the impression that just having solid mechanics (e.g good macro, not getting supply blocked or floating minerals etc, and 'ok' unit control) takes you to mid-high diamond at least.
On July 20 2011 00:03 thepeonwhocould wrote: I would say it will take about 700 games minimum for a complete noob to go from Bronze to Masters.
But this mass gaming also needs to be in a style where you are playing to get better. There is a difference between playing to get better and just hitting play game over and over.
No, takes about ~150-200 if you have a solid game plan coming into season reset, perfect time to jump ladders.
I was a big 4v4 player in season 1 and was very disinterested in 1s because I didn't spend time watching and practicing and understanding builds(aka I was Bronze). I prepped before season 2 for a couple weeks. Came in strong into season 2 and went to masters in 2 weeks of solid play.
To the person that started this thread, it is an achievable dream and has been done. If you need any tips or help let me know.
You need time watching and practicing and understanding builds to get out of bronze? I may be wrong here but I am under the impression that just having solid mechanics (e.g good macro, not getting supply blocked or floating minerals etc, and 'ok' unit control) takes you to mid-high diamond at least.
Having a build and long term plan that you practice over and over again is actually one of the best ways to improve your macro and overall mechanics.
I'm with you friend! I know it seems like a daunting task but it will definitely come with practice, analysis, and persistence.
I hate to make a shamless plug here, but what I've done is start a blog (http://deucestarcraft.blogspot.com) where I analyze my own videos, and get advice from other, better players on how to improve. I thought this was a good idea because it allows you to see what you're doing wrong, encourages you to play, and gets you involved in the starcraft 2 community (who are, apparently, a great bunch of people. I've had some very very positive feedback.
I guess all I'm saying, is somehow keep track of how you're doing, and keep at it! Not everyone picks up the game and is immediately a ML player. Keep at it XD
Definitely possible. I started off in silver, and am now in masters. Did it int he span of 1 season too. As you improve, you'll get promoted. Don't sweat it, and don't let your league define who you are. Just play Starcraft, have fun, and improve! Improving your league will come naturally after that.
On July 19 2011 17:09 seefernando wrote: Is there any way people play?
To all the Bronze to Master players, Was there ever that " OH man! thats what I'm missing" moment? When did you start noticing major changes in your play? What did you start doing really different?
i'm a masters player and about every 3-4 games i still learn something new. the best advice i can give you right now is watch your own replays and keep an eye on your minerals, supply, production. are you spending all your minerals or do you always have 1k? you don't want to get supply blocked, but at the same time it is a waste to have 20/50 supply. you don't need that much that early. next watch your structures. are they constantly building something. worker production shouldn't stop til around 80. your structures should rarely be idle. at your level i wouldn't worry about which units to build just yet. make anything and learn what works for you. good luck
Hey, Here's some reassuring news. I was a 60's ranked bronze when I first started to play this game at the start of the year. I went to Europe for studies and came back and started playing with a better attitude this summer and I went from 60's bronze to Number 1 in my division. Then I moved to Silver and was ranked 38 and then I moved into the top 5 and then moved up to 20's gold. Now I'm ranked 10 in gold and if it wasn't for this lock I think would've moved up to plat. Just keep working hard at it. I don't really play too much but each game I look to improve my mechanics and overall attitude to losing and winning. Just be focused and you'll move up quickly.
On July 19 2011 16:55 zeehar wrote: of course it's possible, with a lot of hard work and a ton of time spent playing, watching, reading and analysing.
i'm curious as to how long it'll take. maybe two seasons (as long as you're inherently bad at sc2)?
Well, if it's any help, I was a piss poor gold league Zerg player when season 1 ended, I am now a top Master league Protoss player thanks to a lot of detication starting not too long after the beginning of season 2. Does anyone recall exactly when season 2 began?
Going from bronze to masters is possible. I had the same journey. It took me 1 full year of playing starcraft 2 to do so. However going from bronze to diamond might be easier than you may think.
Watch dailies like Day9s newbie tuesday where he sorta explains in more detail the lower level mechanics. practice your mechanics, get your internal timer going for energy regeneration. start getting build orders, practice them against players, optimize them in BO testers, play more, play more, play more, watch more strats, watch tournies, don't rely on already pro player or GM level play for one specific build, most top level players have tons of builds to execute.
Adapt, Play, Play, Play. The only way to calm your nerves is to expose yourself to them more, don't be afraid to ladder, you're gonna lose every other game, that's the way the system is designed, but learn from your losses, find out "oh.. this is when i should have cut probe production because I scouted and he didn't expand. Eventually it'll come natural and before you know it, you'll be at least platinum/diamond, poking your head into masters, then you refine it all, refine and play and boom...eventually
my story : I started silver due to being unaware of cheese in beta, quickly got into gold, worked, got into platinum at the end, started platinum on release, worked slowly, then hard at the end of S1, ended up placing into diamond immediately starting season 2, kind of slacked off due to RL/Work, but it's calming down now, so my goal is masters by the end of Season 3.
I did it. Just play games. Check your replays. Don't rage when you lose. It will be the end of you. Also set yourself smaller goals. Like get into silver first. Also one build for each race. So one build for t v t. One for t v p etc. Don't keep changing it. You'll progress quicker if you do it how i said.
It is possible ... i started with gold league and i am now in masters league ... my lil bro started with bronze league and he is even higher than me in masters league....
you can do it ... remember it will not be easy and sometimes u dont even want to play anymore but never give up and keep doing lots of practice ..... it might take alot of time even too like maybe more than 2 months or so but depends on u
On example of myself, bronze-platinum (now playing against diamond so probably promotion soon) during season 2. It took about 200 games for me to get promoted so not "that" much i think. What I did to improve was mostly watching dailies and tournaments to see how others play. I don't know a single build order for now, my avg. apm has raised from ~20 to ~70.
I didn't read all posts so I don't know if you or any1 else has mentioned that, but - good hotkeys organisation is very important. At least 3 keys for army is ok.
To get to diamond, forget about BOs, 2 port banshee or other pointless builds won't teach you how to play or understand a game. All you need to know is when to create first pylon/supply/ovie so you won't stop worker production and when to create first rax/gw/sp. Below diamond (maybe even higher) all you need are good mechanics. Ofc remember about some basics, eg: you don't go marauders against muta right?.
Avoid all-ins in your play, 7RR/4G is great in bronze but you acomplish nothing by doing them - no learning, no understanding, just pointless win.
Let's assume you've learned a "pro elo" BO, you tried it and it worked, you won, WOW congratz. OK, great but do you know why did you win, or why did you build sth at this exact time? What happens if someone will counter your build? You won't have any idea what to do next because you don't understand the game.
First thing I think you have to do - create triggers for yourself (according to day9), so you'll be able to remember about everything - looking at minimap, food, resources etc. However don't craeate all at once, because you won't remember all of them. If you're too slow but you remember about things you need to do, just play and play and play more - you'll eventually gain speed for doing them all (as long as you'll keep doing them). If you are fast but can't remember about stuff - make a trigger. For example: you forget to inject larva - start tapping hotkey with your queen, so you'll see how much energy she has all the time.
Mouse precision is pretty important - easy exercise: at the beginning of the game most players make huge boxes... instead of that bullshit - click on minerals, when you'll be able to click decently fast on them one by one, start clicking on drones. Also you can play some custom, put speedlings on patrol and try to click on them. You'll see progress pretty fast.
Maybe that's obvious, maybe not, but remember to FOCUS on playing, focus realy hard! Don't think about school, work, party, or other shit when you're playing. Turn off skype, change status to busy, you don't want to get interrupted.
Make as few decisions as you can while playing. In terms of how will you play.
Multitasking = speed and awareness of what is happening on map, so you'll be able to perform it well after getting to decent speed, looking at minimap and focus.
Map vision is VERY important, fight for xel'naga towers, send scout.
WATCH your replays. Right after playing game is good. Watch it once or twice, catch the biggest mistakes and try to avoid them in the next game.
Don't get angry after you lose, don't rage if you lose to cheese, just calmly watch your replay and see what went wrong, think what will you do next time this happens.
At some point (diamond/masters - I don't know exactly cuz I'm not there yet, but not earlier for sure!) you'll notice you won't be able to outproduce your opponent, or you'll die to some refined timings. In my opinion this is the moment you need to start worring about BO's, timings, good micro, good positioning and more advanced things. Before that just play, practice with someone, watch streams/tournaments - these are things that will help you understand what, when and why.
Everyone in this world (and i seriously mean EVERYONE) should be able to achieve masters league at the very minimum.
Being in masters league since day 1.. It's seriously NOT THAT HARD to get in and people in it are NOT THAT GOOD. I have a feeling, everyone in it are mostly just casual gamers who just understand RTS a little bit more.
Given that you're willing to read, learn, practice, and UNDERSTAND RTS and how to play. you will be in masters with little to no trouble at all
My advice is to (a) play alot and (b) come up with a game plan for reaching your goal and follow it. There are some excellent guides that can help you do this. I recommend CecilSunkure's How to Improve Efficiently at SC2 1v1.
Oh and watching Day9 now and again can be helpful, particularly when you're just starting out. But don't waste too much time watching streams and reading forums. If you truly want to get better, you must put in the time playing.
On July 19 2011 16:53 seefernando wrote:I want your input. I really want this to be a community experiment. Is it possible for a bronze leguer to get to Masters?
Absolutely! I myself was originally bronze league and now I'm playing Master League opponents and just waiting for a promotion.
My advice would be watch lots of Day[9] Newbie Tuesdays and understand the basics of what you need to improve on. He says all the time that the best way to improve is to focus on one thing at a time until you can do it well and then move on to something else. Then once you get to Diamond league you can focus on build orders and things like that.
An example would be (especially at your level) to constantly make workers. Too be honest, that in itself should get you to at least silver league, maybe gold.
Then focus on always producing out of your production facilities, and then focus on expanding earlier, etc. this way you will always be improving something important, but you won't be overwhelmed with 20 things you need to work on and be frustrated/give up.
Edit:
On July 20 2011 02:04 titan55 wrote: Everyone in this world (and i seriously mean EVERYONE) should be able to achieve masters league at the very minimum.
Being in masters league since day 1.. It's seriously NOT THAT HARD to get in and people in it are NOT THAT GOOD. I have a feeling, everyone in it are mostly just casual gamers who just understand RTS a little bit more.
Given that you're willing to read, learn, practice, and UNDERSTAND RTS and how to play. you will be in masters with little to no trouble at all
Posts like this piss me off. Just because you have the mechanics and understanding to play this game doesn't mean everyone else can. It's not /that/ easy to get into masters league. Yes there are some 'bad' players in there, but they got there by being able to execute build orders well enough to be there.
I know of a player in GrandMaster league even who does nothing but 4gate every game. Is he a 'bad' player? Yeah probably in terms of his overall gameplay, but it takes an incredible amount of skill and focus to be able to execute a 4gate at that high of a level consitently.
Maybe it's "easy" for you to get into master league, but most people don't find it that easy.
everyone will tell you that you just have to work hard at it and anyone can do it. I really don't agree with this. if you are a legitimate bronze leaguer meaning you have played a good number (50+) of games and are still in bronze league I would say you are hopeless. some people are just very slow with their hands and don't think the right way for playing RTS games.
that said master league is really pretty easy, most people overrate how good the master league players are. if you really never ever got supply blocked and always kept your macro up you would easily be in masters as this level of proficiency does not describe most masters players.
It's definitely possible. Anyone can get where they want in Starcraft 2 by practicing. I recommend watching live streams a lot of your race, subscribe to HuskyStarcraft and HDStarcraft on Youtube. Follow tournaments and read up on forums on TL everyday! Browse the Starcraft 2 general forums as well as the strategy section. Most importantly, after you realize how things work and have build orders down for several occasions, PLAY!! You can watch all you want but until you put the knowledge that you've gained from watching into action, you won't get too far. Just keep at it and you can be in masters in no time!! Good luck
I went from bronze - masters in 3 months with no rts experience, its not that hard just play alot of games. However low masters to high masters/gm is much much harder
A friend of mine started the game in march, having never played an rts before (he was pretty good at cs tho) and is now top diamond, will probably make masters before the end of the month. His secret? Play alot (he 1v1'd 3 to 4 hours, sometimes more, a day up to diamond) and regurlaly. (also maybe protoss :>) Pick a build and perfect it, that'll get you far in the ladder.
On July 20 2011 03:35 mewby wrote: I went from bronze - masters in 3 months with no rts experience, its not that hard just play alot of games. However low masters to high masters/gm is much much harder
This. I went from being placed in silver to masters in 1 season while playing only like ~400 games or so and getting over a 3.9 GPA my sophomore year in an engineering curriculum. You can do it, you just need to keep that mouse busy, use hotkeys, watch replays, etc.
It's important to keep in mind when you watch pro player's streams that It's not about how "fast" you are with the keyboard, it's about knowing what needs to be done and doing it in a fast and efficient manner. I have 80 APM and often out-multitask players with twice that.
You can do this. But the way to do it is not to start threads on team liquid asking if it is possible, it is to actually play the damn game
Best advice I can give you is that you learn more from loosing than you do from winning. If you win you get ladder points, if you loose you become better and end up winning more in the future. Play with that mindset and it doesnt matter if you win or loose.
On July 20 2011 03:27 yomi wrote: everyone will tell you that you just have to work hard at it and anyone can do it. I really don't agree with this. if you are a legitimate bronze leaguer meaning you have played a good number (50+) of games and are still in bronze league I would say you are hopeless. some people are just very slow with their hands and don't think the right way for playing RTS games.
that said master league is really pretty easy, most people overrate how good the master league players are. if you really never ever got supply blocked and always kept your macro up you would easily be in masters as this level of proficiency does not describe most masters players.
You can probably make it to at least Platinum just with 30 APM if you use your APM efficiently. I don't think anyone should have a mindset that it's impossible to improve.
Besides, I don't think anybody (edit: who is not actually physically disabled) is legitimately so impaired with their hand speed that they can't get to 60 APM with enough practice--and I've seen a few master's league players who play that slowly.
Bring up a clock and try typing your next post with one key press each second. See how long it takes you.
I share your goal of wanting to break in to Master league but haven't been playing much lately. You should probably spend most of your time playing and practicing things like macro, but do take a break for replays or research once in a while. Once you start noticing a trend in your losses, figure out what you can do better to avoid that in the future.
Not sure if you've seen this one, but day[9] daily #208 is great for learning how a good player should approach the game:
Personally I belive anyone can even become a starcraft 2 pro, but in some cases that may require extreme amounts of time and dedication and sacrifices most people are not willing to make.
If I may I would like to give a few tips along the road: -Make sure you have fun! Do what you think is fun stuff. Even if you belive it will make you lose. Eventually you will start winning too.
-Day9 is a character/muppet/person/legend you may already know, if not I would strongly suggest you watch episodes 257 and 252 (#257 , #252)
-Make a list of goals for yourself, for instance: "during the next week I will play one game where I never get supply blocked" and then you try to accomplish that during every game.
-Dont worry about apm, you will get faster over time as more tasks can be accomplished by muscle memory alone. Focus on doing things right rather than doing them fast.
-Lastly dont get too hang up on losses, the process of getting better sadly involves alot of losing.
VoD coaching by me if you or anyone is interested. + Show Spoiler +
I will analyse/coach as many games as possible. As my streaming schedule is irregular everything will be uploaded as VoDs on www.justin.tv/nairisc/videos
To submit you replay do the following: -Send it via email to nairistarcraft@gmail.com -Give a brief explanation of what you were going for, and why. Stream thread on teamliquid
You bet I will! With work and school it will be hard, and some of you have posted that your grades dropped... :o This should be expected... My goal is to ladder atleast once a day. Meaning At least one game a day. This is from Day[9] He talked about a routine, I think the reasoning behind this is to get the muscle memory for the hotkeys and the mental ability to multitask efficiently. Someone mentioned not to just do major laddering sessions on the weekends. This is just like School, Cramming doesn't always help, and Cramming definitely doesn't help you retain what you learned very long. I know this will be a long process :D I'm in no rush <3
I'm going to try, I think at this point Pro replays will help a bit more just to know when they pull probes to build things and find their probe counts and resource values. I think replays will help more, since I can slow things down and compare to what I'm doing at the same time. I do love me some GSL and NASL tho! "PUMA HWAITING!!!!"
I totally agree with this! When I started getting serious about doing better, I was told to 4 gate my way up. My buddy stated "It'll get you out of bronze and into Diamond!" But I don't care about what league I'm in... Contray to the Thread title I know... I want to have MASTER Level Skills! I want to act, play and think like a high level master player. If that makes any sense. So no aimless worker selections for me I'll try to make my meager APM as affective as possible
For sure!! I do think I read/watch a lot. Even today, when I first sat down I decided I'd rewatch Day[J]'s mechanics daily. Then I realized my time might be better spend trying to play as mechanically perfect as I can. That way I can setup a baseline for how much I suck!
Agreed! I am broke though... I've looked into many AWESOME people that offer free lessons, I've been to the Myco coaching channel and gotten pointers and tips. I think the fastest way to learn is from the mistakes of others. People that have been there, done that. Of course I will have to apply what they say! They won't be playing for me, I'm gonna have to do the learning and translate what they say into something useful for me.
I'm going to be setting up Small Weekly goals Things like have 100 supply by 10 mins or constantly scout for expos. My goal for this week will be to not get supply blocked in the first 10 mins. Is that a reasonable goal? Should I say not get supply blocked for the whole game? I think I'm going to need help with setting these baby-step goals
This is something I don't do enough... Even today... I only watched 3 of my replays... I have read the article about how to analyze replays. Also I'm going to be only concentrating on the early game. I pretty much just A-move my army around late game anyway! I need to make progress in the early game.
This is not a huge issue for me :D I'm a pretty easy going guy, I tend to only rage when I get cannon rushed... But that would only be my fault for not scouting!
I could not agree more! Honestly this was my 3rd post? I had also never made a thread. I understand now why the rules are so strict about what you post and where. So is where this is posted now ok?
Should I keep making updates here? Is there a better place for this to go?
Also in terms of this forum, what do the [Q][H][L] tags mean before some threads? In the warning thread in strategy it states that all post must have tags? What are the tags and what purpose do they serve? This is so I know what i'm looking at while browsing the forums
Phew! That was a lot of typing! Again <3<3<3 to all those that have posted and offered help! If you'd like to coach me you can hit me up on the NA server. That is, if I'm allowed to post a request like that here (NomNomNom.280)
Had great day of laddering today! By great I mean I lost every one! YAY!... I did my best not to rage as I got rolled by a 6 pool, an early stim push and my favourite, losing my death ball to infestors...
I played a solid 8 games today. But I only reviewed 3 of the replays... That is something I have to change.
So the game I've posted on SC2Replayed doesn't seem to be recognized by their system because of the patch, but here is the link anyways. NomNomNom PvZ SC2Replayed
Here is my analysis of the first few mins, please let me know if there is anything I missed.
-My #10 probe was delayed because I was distracted in typing to the guy...
-I didn't cue up my #12 probe
-I got my forge before my 12th probe
-I put down my 16 pylon too early, should have put down the cannon.
-My 9 pylon was placed poorly, I like to have my cannons behind buildings. The pylon was not positioned to allow this.
-My first cannon was really delayed
-Way too many pylons early
-My chono built up after I put the expo down, I usually don't chrono probes till the nexus is down, or else I'll end up cutting probes in order to get the money for the nexus
-I placed a pylon at 22/36 to stop ling run bys, this should have been a cannon I think.
-There were many times where I wasn't making probes, or tapping my nexus to check.
-Don't talk to the guy, GL HF is enough... -Follow the build exactly, don't be creative -Don't cut probes, ( I usually chant, "Probes, supply, minimap, money" I didn't do this because my gf was in the room. -MUST CHANT and actually tap the corresponding building hotkeys and actually compute what I see in the supply count and minimap. (22/24 =need pylon, Nexus has chono = use on probes or upgrades?)
Man... that was only the first 6 mins... I will do a more diligent analysis of tomorrow's game[s] . I don't want you guys to do the work for me!
I'll be posting a few more replays in the replay thread as well as sending them to Nairi!
Thanks again guys! Also please let me know if I should move this thread somewhere else, or change the formatting, I'm really new to the spoiler tags. I just figured people can read what they want to and it'll reduce the actual post size :D
On July 19 2011 17:02 seefernando wrote: Ok, So my stats.
I started playing RTS games mid Season 1.
I've literally never played PC games, I only ever had a PSx and all I played as Metal Gear Solid.
I was in bronze since Mid Season 1, I played Zerg and went 7 roach till I got to Gold. At Gold I started losing consistently to Platinum players. I switched to protoss, as I was told it would be easier to learn a macro style of play with Toss.
I was placed back into Bronze by the end of season 1. Started season 2 in Bronze, I actually wasn't able to play as my laptop go stolen at school. I only started play a few weeks before the league lock.
Recently I've been playing many high Bronze/sliver players.
Is there anything I need to include?
I use Grid keys for hotkeys. I can't think of anything else I should include.
I'm looking for practice ideas, realistic goals and general ideas of improving play.
Thanks!
<3
I don't know how much time you have but you can do something like this:
Watch a few replays from day before and pinpoint one weak area to improve. Play 10 games working solely on that weak area you picked out.
Repeat the next day.
If you continuously make all your weaknesses into your greatest strengths then it won't take you long to get into masters. Everyone learns at different rates though so I can't say you'll get there in one week or even a month, but with hard work and dedication I don't see it as unrealistic for it to only take a couple weeks.
i was put into bronze a month and a half ago... now im a high gold and am going to at least get to diamond with the next season hopefully. Most importantly have fun while still learning and getting better. glhf!!! xploit.347
definitely possible to get to masters with some good training, but grand masters is a dream for most. Some people just need natural talent to be top 200 of their region.
I'm going to be honest. Imo to be master u need to be at least above average in videogames in general. I do not know any master player that suck in the average videogame. Sc2 is in the deep/complex game "genre", so is going to be even harder to be a master. However, if u focus and work hard theory wise, you can improve A LOT!! Your goal should be "to improve", not reach certain far point. GL!
On July 19 2011 17:09 seefernando wrote: Is there any way people play?
To all the Bronze to Master players, Was there ever that " OH man! thats what I'm missing" moment? When did you start noticing major changes in your play? What did you start doing really different?
I played SC 3-4 months before SC2 beta was released, then I played all of the beta (was top 150 for pretty much entire beta) then when the game was released I was diamond and then master when masters league was released. So I guess I was never really bronze, but I was the bronze equivalent of SCBW. So yes, its possible for someone with hardly any RTS experience to get to masters level. It just takes some practice, a calm mind & some direction.
The moment for me was when Kwark (a member here on TL who I met on ICCup gave me a quick lesson on ZvP. It was the first time I really got some insight into the way I should be thinking about my strategy & the information I see.
I would recommend creating a plan for yourself with general goals and milestones focusing on one thing at a time. I would recommend something like the following:
1) Determine a hotkey setup that is both comfortable and functional. (Using ring, middle & index fingers of your keyboard hand for the proper keys, deciding what control groups you will put your macro structures on, which will be for units, abilities etc. This will change over time as I'm sure you will want to change stuff as you get better, but you can save yourself alot of hassle by learning things properly the first time. DO NOT CLICK. EVER. ONLY USE HOTKEYS. Don't worry about losing. Once you are starting to feel comfortable with the hotkeys, move on to step 2. Day9daily on this topic: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-252-secrets-of-hotkeys-apm-and-mouse-movement-4730506
2) Work on your basic mechanics. Watch this day9 daily: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-132-back-to-the-basics-the-mental-checklist-3751430 Day 9's mental checklist outlines the very basic things you need to be doing to manage an economy in SC2. Focus on only the basics. Your mechanics are the fundamental starting point for the rest of your play. Don't even worry about what sort of units you are making or what your strategy is. Don't worry if you win or lose, just focus on crisp, clean macro. Once you feel like macro is becoming 2nd nature you will start to notice that you just have so much more stuff than your bronze opponents that it becomes easier and easier to 1a and win. If you feel like you need to memorize a build order to help go for it. Just don't be afraid to wing it, it will challenge your mechanics.
I would probably work solely on step 2 for at least a couple weeks if not more before even worrying about strategy. Just go into a game and decide, I'm going to build X & Y and attack at Z time and focus on executing that cleanly so that you have the largest possible force when Z arrives.
3) Familiarize yourself with every unit/structure/tech path in the game. Get to know the hp, damage, firing rates, movement speeds, food costs, build times etc. of everything in the game. You want to have the knowledge that will allow you to truly understand the strengths and weaknesses of each unit & tech path. Its useful to know that A counters B, but significantly more useful to understand exactly why that is the case. Liquipedia is quite useful for this.
4) Learning from your losses. Once you are comfortable with basic hotkeys & macro you can start thinking about the actual strategy&tactics part of the game. There is another good (though outdated) day9 daily but I would still recommend watching it as it talks about important concepts when analyzing a loss: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-116-learning-from-a-loss-3653313 There is also another one (#110 about dealing with losing). Always be sure of several things you could have done better during the game, and look for trends, take note of them, and think of them moving into the next game. Create a cycle of practice > analysis > improvement & repeat it indefinitely. Use the plethora of resources on TL.net in your analysis. That being said, I would focus on day9 dailies/podcasts. You can likely learn more from him than any other single resource. Watch pro-replays/GSL/MLG/etc., but remember that you need to understand why they do what they do, replicating their play-styles is a useful exercise but will only take you so far.
5) Try to win convincingly. Avoid doing all-in builds where if your attack fails to kill your opponent you can no longer win the game. There is something to be said about refining a build, but you will learn more from dieing to various 1 base all-ins than you will from executing them. As tasteless and Artosis would say: when you are ahead, get more ahead. This podcast is related: http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/zatic/Day90004HOP1WinWithAdvantage.mp3 (The rest of Day9's podcasts can be found here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Day(9)_Podcasts, but you may just want to stick to the dailies, as they are more relevant to SC2.)
One last note. Remember to stay calm. As soon as you lose your focus, or do not feel calm & positive, you will not only play worse, but likely enter an even worse emotional state. Over time you will find it much easier to manage the anger of losing, but also the jittery adrenaline during heated matches. Don't be afraid to take a break and watch a day9 daily or read Sun Tzu art of war (some call it overrated, but its pure gold when applied to someone learning the basics of starcraft, here's a link: http://www.artofwarsuntzu.com/Art of War PDF.pdf).
It will likely take you roughly a thousand games to make it to masters if you are really understanding the theory as well as constantly improving mechanics. That works out to about 4 months if you are practicing a 2 hours a day. If you are someone who has a knack for strategic games & thinking, I'm sure you can do it in less. It took me roughly ~300 games to make it to C at SCBW, (C would likely line up with diamond league in SC2). I honestly have found that aside from working on mechanics and execution, the majority of improvement comes from learning outside of the game. Hence why I advise you to pound out games and focus on mechanics first before worrying too much about winning. You can only put the knowledge to use if you have good execution.
Yes, you can get really good at practicing some kind of all-in build and replicating it repeatedly to get to masters, but you will be a much better player if you take a path which gives you true understanding of the game.
This is good advice:
On July 20 2011 14:50 Slims20 wrote: One word: Day[9].
Begin at episode 100, and never look back. Good luck.
The way i got from bronze to master was just massing games, no day9, no reading tl no nothing, i just played 2000fucking games, most of them i did all ins tbh and they hardly extended over the 12min mark, i never watched the reps and i never tried to refine my bos. In all honesty its the best way for someone w/o any kind of talent like myself to get to master since it just give you a "felling" of whats going on ( i.e i never need to tap i just know when to build probes and i know when my wg cd is almost ready since i played so much )
I know the overall theme of improving is: macro build, watch rep, don't miss the daily, read tl but that just seems way harder then what i did and im not even sure if its better or not :p
Also up until plat you should just focus on building workers and building units constantly, you dont even need a "game plan" or "strategy" up until mid diamond as far as i see ( smurfing with zerg up to master :> )
I bought SC2 on release purely for the single player and never looked at the multi player until 2 months ago when I went over to a friends house and saw him watching GSL.
I'm now platinum since that fateful day in late May, including a race switch from Protoss to now Terran, as well as a server switch from SEA to NA.
As someone who has gone from silver to diamond from the beta untill now, it's gonna take some time, and more than just grinding out games (watching vods, reading the forums, ect.) but with time you will get better Good luck!!
I was placed in bronze during beta phase 2 and placed in gold during release and I'm now Masters so it is indeed possible! ^_^ While you will learn about macro and micro it is always important to remember yourself and what you need to improve on. When you play and practice remember that while playing a lot is helpful, how you learn is just as, if not even more important. While quantity of games can help in the beginning stages of improvement, quality is what you are looking for when it comes to improvement. There are so many good Day[9] dailies out there that work with players like yourself which contain excellent tools to help you understand exactly why you are at the level you are at, what you need to improve on and most importantly how to improve on those things.
Finally, remember that you need patients and that you may at time want to quit or feel like you are not improving but just remember that if you put in the honest effort to improve then you will improve. Best of luck to you friend! ^_^
1) Ladder 7 times a day. 2) Watch at least all the games you lost (the more the better though) 3) Profit
If Bronze to Master was really impossible, then no one could be in Masters who has no experience of RTS, but I doubt 90%+ of Master league has played BW (or even other RTS games).
what?! help you? stop wasting ur time on hte forums and talking 2 ppl and start actually playing games. u wont learn from watching streams and writing threads, but by actually playing and putting in your time into exp.
I would suggest finding a streamer that is Master/GM that is playing your race and likes to explain his play. Watch him as education and not as entertainment. Copy him and learn why he does what he does. This will boost you easily to diamond just by spamming games afterwards. When you play always play with a plan and a goal. Repeat said goal many times until you are confident in executing it.
Then practice another goal. Be sure to practice macro always, even when it is not needed (like when your opponent is clearly beaten). Remember, win or lose you are playing to learn and become better, not just to win or have fun.
When I first bought the game I started in bronze league with no previous experience of RTS games, but now I've managed to make it to masters. I'd definitely say it is possible for anyone if you're willing to put in the work to learn the game. Best of luck to you.
I had very little RTS experience, as in I played WC2 & WC3 campaign and customs against computer, and BW campaign, and NO previous competitive RTS experience. So started from bronze and at the end of season 1, even before masters was introduced, i was at top of diamond, as in, 2600 points, top 10 etc. this was about 500 games played, and approx 250-300 wins. After this point, due to RL issues, i stopped laddering and practicing as much as i really should have so am yet to make the push to masters, but i feel if i kept my momentum, i would have been able to make masters. So yes i feel it is very possible as long as you have the commitment. By commitment i do not mean just mass gaming, i mean watching streams, watching Day[9], watching tourneys, watching replays, CONSTANTLY lurking TL, reading, learning, adapting. Best of luck to you friend!
First of i want to say that you are allready on a good mindset and that is trully half the work. I want to advise you to watch Allot and when i say allot i mean allot of day[9] he explains everything so well. secondly, if you have any friends that are "better" than you in this game try playing allot of costumes with them and then rewatch the replays with them. they might give you a second oppinion on whats wrong with your game.
A quick way from going towards gold is simply learning actuall build orders. you can find these on liquidpedia. just having a actuall build order with good timings vs a build order that some one made up on the spot will allready be a huge advantage.
furthermore, make sure your macro is always good. aka don't miss any warpins/injects. make sure all your buildings are producing make sure you always make probe's etc.
Do not spend to much time on micro for now. it will come as you go. also dont worry about apm. this will also come as you go. if you know you need to do allot of stuff you will do it and that will automaticly increase the apm.'
Desisionmaking comes for me mostly from watching my replays. if you can often see in the replay that you could have countered one of his bases because he was out of positions. but you never did because you were to scared to leave. also if you have a 7 units vs 7 units and you lose the fight without either side microing you should realise that you were in a bad position.
last try reading up on TL as much as you can. there is also a thread here called 1000 tips. it is very usefull especially for new players.
goodluck with your qeust for greatness. and if you need help never fear to ask
EDIT: the most important thing btw is to play as much as you possibly can. nothing beats experiance.
From my point of view it is hard, but possible to accomplish. If you are a "total noob", as you have phrased it, you will first need to work on the basic mechanics first, boxing of units, hold position, build structures + shift/rightclicking on your minerals etc..
Now these kind of things are all mentioned in this this great TL thread.
However theres another aspect to this:
This is a war game. You will simply win in most cases by massing units. If you can mass more than your oponent, then in most cases you will win (most cases since aoe spells, positioning, flanking, etc. can still win you the game even if you have less units). But in order to accomplish that, to build a huge army and continuously building units, u will have to have a great economy.
Focus on economy, army and the game mechanics and you will get better.
In order to reach Master level (2% of all players) you will have to work hard on yourself. Not impossible but also not that easy as everyone tells you! Good luck!
It's definitely not impossible at all. I was Rank 1 bronze and now I'm Rank 1 Platinum with TvP capable of holding mid masters Protoss players with relative ease. You just need to play a lot, I certainly think it's going to take effort however. I have 1500 wins or so as only Platinum working up from Bronze. There's a player named Raptor on the Korean servers who worked from KR bronze to KR GM and is Rank 17 last I checked. Just work hard!
Yo we all gotta start somewhere. I started playing brood war in 2008, so most of my sc2 mechanics were carried over from bw. Don't be discouraged if you don't see results right away, you need to believe in yourself and remember that all of us--the community--are behind you!
I improved my gameplay by playing a ton of games and watched streams all the time. LET yourself be engulfed by the starcraft universe. If you want to improve rapidly, stop thinking it as a game and start treating it as a lifestyle.
now i'm ~1500p master. and i've only played about 1000 1v1 games since the game was released.
basically; eat, sleep, starcraft. :D
- watch day9 newbie tuesday vods then move on to his other dailies - watch gsl, nasl, ipl and user streams on TL with commentary - read EVERYTHING in the strategy guide on liquipedia
when you ladder play the same opening/build all the way to high diamond/master. then focus on 2-3 openings for each matchup until you can master them. your mechanics is more important than anything. you'll learn how to handle your opponent's build and how to change your own builds/unit compositions/timings by experience.
I recommend watching from pro games and get a general feel of the game. Once you have a general sense of whats going on at various stages of the game, you will be able to easily climb your way up.
As for "mechanics" and "build order", simply ladder more! Practice makes perfect.
Of course, being in bronze, alot of the players will do stuff that makes no senses whats so ever. If you are extremely frustrated by losing to non-nonsensical stuff, feel free to 4gate your way up to gold or something.
Going back to my comment on page 6, I realized i didn't elaborate at all when saying I went from Bronze to Masters at the season 2 reset within 2 weeks.
*Took me around 200 games
Before season 2, I prepped for a couple weeks coming into that reset.
Part of that prep included 1. Learning build order 2. Watch replays(look at your mechanics, build order, control groups, unit composition(are you building scvs at proper times? are you building proper units), use of money(not letting it stack up). 3. Importance of control groups 4. Map awareness 5.Ignoring personal rank 6.Ignoring apm(if you work on mechanics your apm will go up anyways) 7. Watch the pros(you might not be able to follow everything, but you can at least see some of the fundamentals. 8. and as Zala said above me, practice! Go into starcraft, don't be shy to ladder or lose rank, if you're that worried, find practice partners.
From bronze-maybe low masters, I tihnk the most important thing you need is good mechanics. I worked on mine from bronze-platinum by picking 1 build, mine was 3gate expo into whatever i need to counter my opponent's army. I was bronze facing Diamond players and I skipped silver and got promoted to Gold. Now, my mechanics are solid enough for ladder play up at masters league
Getting a gaming mouse is essential to improving your game if you ask me. The keyboard not so much, but upgrading your mouse will make world of difference. steelseries xai and razer death adder are what I can personally vouch for.
Practice. Just play the damn game, there is no super top secret way to get better. Practice till playing Starcraft is like breathing. When you cant move your fingers watch vods, training videos, Day9 dailys etc.
Whether a Bronze Player can get into masters? Of course, nothing easier to achieve than that! Get somebody really good, get him a new account, let him lose placement matches and play serious after being placed in Bronze. Whether a Bronze Player, who is in Bronze because of his skill, can get into masters? Possibly, but that's a hard road to take. You need to practise very hard, and in case you need motivation, you can listen to Tempo's Grandmaster song.
So much useless advice here. What seperates every single tier of starcraft is mechanics. If you want to become better, focus on making your mechanics sharper. Only when you are competing on a majour scale will strategy truly matter, before then you should be mechanically sound enough to beat all other tiers of starcrafters.
So much advice about "watch vods, training videos, day9" like the guy above me, are just a way for you to stagnant your play, all the strategy in the world wont stop JulyZerg from outplaying you 10/10 games, so just get mechanically sound enough to reach masters, and the strategy will be applied accordingly.
On July 21 2011 05:45 Holcan wrote: So much useless advice here. What seperates every single tier of starcraft is mechanics. If you want to become better, focus on making your mechanics sharper. Only when you are competing on a majour scale will strategy truly matter, before then you should be mechanically sound enough to beat all other tiers of starcrafters.
So much advice about "watch vods, training videos, day9" like the guy above me, are just a way for you to stagnant your play, all the strategy in the world wont stop JulyZerg from outplaying you 10/10 games, so just get mechanically sound enough to reach masters, and the strategy will be applied accordingly.
You need both.
I'm a high masters player who recently did a few games as Zerg for fun. The mechanics come easy to me; I play Zerg with over 200 APM and keep my minerals and such very low. It doesn't really matter though - I can lose to platinum Z and T players just because I have bad builds and senseless timings. I don't know any timings at all due to lack of experience so I just lose
At the same time, I play ZvP at a mid masters level simply because I know the builds and timings from playing so much PvZ. If I learned the timings for the other match ups, it would make a 2 league difference.
I think it's a bit pointless to say you need one or the other of either mechanics or builds. You won't get better by cutting out important parts of the game (ie builds) out of your practice regime.
On July 21 2011 05:45 Holcan wrote: So much useless advice here. What seperates every single tier of starcraft is mechanics. If you want to become better, focus on making your mechanics sharper. Only when you are competing on a majour scale will strategy truly matter, before then you should be mechanically sound enough to beat all other tiers of starcrafters.
So much advice about "watch vods, training videos, day9" like the guy above me, are just a way for you to stagnant your play, all the strategy in the world wont stop JulyZerg from outplaying you 10/10 games, so just get mechanically sound enough to reach masters, and the strategy will be applied accordingly.
You need both.
I'm a high masters player who recently did a few games as Zerg for fun. The mechanics come easy to me; I play Zerg with over 200 APM and keep my minerals and such very low. It doesn't really matter though - I can lose to platinum Z and T players just because I have bad builds and senseless timings. I don't know any timings at all due to lack of experience so I just lose
At the same time, I play ZvP at a mid masters level simply because I know the builds and timings from playing so much PvZ. If I learned the timings for the other match ups, it would make a 2 league difference.
I think it's a bit pointless to say you need one or the other of either mechanics or builds. You won't get better by cutting out important parts of the game (ie builds) out of your practice regime.
This is true. I was high diamond playing a mix of diamond and masters players. I then switched to random and can keep my money low and make a bunch of units etc.. but without refined builds and timings it's so much harder to win games.
I would suggest though, that you get a better "dream." Maybe a more social one, just have this one on the back burner. It is possible, like I said, i've done it, but it just takes a lot of games and realising how bad you are.
I got the game at release I was in bronze because I had never played any RTS before.
I am now high masters and looking to get to grand masters. If you want to put the time in and play you can be good. SC2 is the same as anything in life, if you really want it and you work hard at it, you can have it.
On July 21 2011 05:45 Holcan wrote: So much useless advice here. What seperates every single tier of starcraft is mechanics. If you want to become better, focus on making your mechanics sharper. Only when you are competing on a majour scale will strategy truly matter, before then you should be mechanically sound enough to beat all other tiers of starcrafters.
So much advice about "watch vods, training videos, day9" like the guy above me, are just a way for you to stagnant your play, all the strategy in the world wont stop JulyZerg from outplaying you 10/10 games, so just get mechanically sound enough to reach masters, and the strategy will be applied accordingly.
Holcomb you're an idiot, I'm guessing you out beat Julyzerg 10/10 because you just focus on mechanics. Players watch to learn builds, play styles, other players mechanics, you can't go in blindly and hope that you've got the right set of hotkeys, right amount of apm, and units just for say.
On July 21 2011 05:45 Holcan wrote: So much useless advice here. What seperates every single tier of starcraft is mechanics. If you want to become better, focus on making your mechanics sharper. Only when you are competing on a majour scale will strategy truly matter, before then you should be mechanically sound enough to beat all other tiers of starcrafters.
So much advice about "watch vods, training videos, day9" like the guy above me, are just a way for you to stagnant your play, all the strategy in the world wont stop JulyZerg from outplaying you 10/10 games, so just get mechanically sound enough to reach masters, and the strategy will be applied accordingly.
my mechanics are still terrible. i think i prove you wrong.
On July 19 2011 16:55 zeehar wrote: of course it's possible, with a lot of hard work and a ton of time spent playing, watching, reading and analysing.
i'm curious as to how long it'll take. maybe two seasons (as long as you're inherently bad at sc2)?
I would have to respond by saying: lol.
If all the inherently bad players could get to masters in two seasons...
I don't even know how to end that sentence, because your logic is boggling my mind.
i started off with no RTS experience besides playing some red alert with friends for fun on weekends. was at 3 wins and 13 losses in bronze. by the end of sesaon 1 i was Diamond. now i am Masters. yes. its absolutely possible
From my personal experience it just needs a lot of watching, but also a lot of playing, I watch more than I play and am trying to reverse that I started as bronze and have played about 4-500 ladder games and am now top gold, hoping for plat when next season starts.
My faults mostly come from mechanics, wasting time thinking about what to do now, and what to do next, its MUCH better now that it used to be but I want to get to the point that building pylons, buildings, workers, etc is all muscle memory and I can devote more brain power to decision making, micro, etc.
You can get there if you try, just keep playing, and watching/reading what those that are good at this game tell you!
Went from Bronze to Diamond in about 4 months, august - november and 300-400 games.
Then raceswitched to zerg. Still stuck in high diamond
And yes, focusing on macro and mechanics almost exclusively will get you to diamond. Oh, and learning to beat the most basic cheezes will also give you quite a few games.
I started with zero RTS experience besides playing WC3 and SC:BW with all the cheats on and cannoning up through singleplayer. When I first started Toss I could only beat the computer by hoping they didn't scout my proxy pylon and I attacked when they were moving out. I was bad.
Fast forward a couple months, a couple breaks, two seasons, I'm Mid Masters. From Bronze to Diamond Rank 1 was a pretty steady climb, then after that I experienced a lot of frustration and attempted to cheese my way up, only 4-gated, etc. I took a couple weeks off and played mostly customs, came back won a couple and now I'm Masters.
I don't consider myself that great, my APM is usually just under 100 and I often lose games based around heavy harassment and tricky army engagements. However, I consider my macro pretty spot on. So long as you focus on improving certain areas, analyze replays, and watch the professionals play and adopt their play styles, yo can definitely make it to Masters, just don't expect it overnight.
I started off in the beta with 0 rts experience, except wc3 single player. At the time, copper was the lowest league and so I was there untill that was removed, and bronze was the lowest... I think I got to silver in the last beta phase. A week after release I was diamond, and masters a week after the release of master league. All it takes is playing a lot and being engaged, f ex through watching a lot of tournaments etc...
I still suck btw. I just suck with a bit better mechanics and game sense.
I was in copper at the start of the Beta. Now I can beat high masters players. What you have to do is commit a little more to SC2.
I started analyzing replays. Looking for builds to master, trying to multitask better; I dropped one medivac at first while macroing, later I started to do dual drops while macroing and now I do triple drops while moving out with my army if possible.
But the main thing was analyzing replays Day[9]-style. ANALYZE PRO REPLAYS AND SEE WHAT THEY ARE DOING. Try to mimick them and play as a pro. It will naturally make you better after a few hundred games. LOL
Just do some analyzing, train multitasking and go mass ladder.
If i had to give you a tip, it would be the following:
IGNORE Day9, IGNORE vod's, IGNORE replays! You need to play. You don't learn swimming from a book and you don't learn playing from watching day9 talk. As a bronze player, you have huge, obvious flaws in your play. As soon as your macro becomes better, you should at least get up to platinum, regardless of you build order or micro.
I personally don't think its worth to agonize yourself into masters. You will have to play and train a lot and for what? Being a 'master' at a computer game? LOL
Since I realized sc2 is just another game it pretty much decreased my play time by 80% and I love it. Way more time to do other (useful) stuff. So yes, anyone can reach master league, but ask yourself if its really that important to you. Getting to master league does not give you any status in RL and if you want to impress people posting here its futile anyway.
On July 24 2011 22:52 Hetz wrote: I personally don't think its worth to agonize yourself into masters. You will have to play and train a lot and for what? Being a 'master' at a computer game? LOL
Since I realized sc2 is just another game it pretty much decreased my play time by 80% and I love it. Way more time to do other (useful) stuff. So yes, anyone can reach master league, but ask yourself if its really that important to you. Getting to master league does not give you any status in RL and if you want to impress people posting here its futile anyway.
That's true for any hobby. You can be ambitious without aiming for money and fame.
i started in silver and im diamond level and imo masters in my tvp and i have a friend who went from bronze last july to diamond/master now in about 400 ladder games
On July 24 2011 22:52 Hetz wrote: I personally don't think its worth to agonize yourself into masters. You will have to play and train a lot and for what? Being a 'master' at a computer game? LOL
Since I realized sc2 is just another game it pretty much decreased my play time by 80% and I love it. Way more time to do other (useful) stuff. So yes, anyone can reach master league, but ask yourself if its really that important to you. Getting to master league does not give you any status in RL and if you want to impress people posting here its futile anyway.
lol, how pathetic. Its a good thing kasparov and the like didnt take their advice from people like you.
On July 19 2011 16:53 seefernando wrote: I want to get into the Masters league. That is my goal. I want my mechanics and macro so perfect that I never get supply blocked or miss a warp in.
...
I want your input. I really want this to be a community experiment. Is it possible for a bronze leguer to get to Masters?
...
I don't want to cheese my way there.
It is entirely possible for a bronze league player to get into Masters. I started off as a bronze league player with only some DotA experience (ie, no real RTS experience) to back me up. 220 1v1s (about 140 wins) later and I am in Masters.
To be quite honest, you don't need anywhere close to perfect mechanics or macro to get into Master League. To go up in Master league is a different story, but to simply get in is a joke on the NA servers.
I agree with you: DO NOT CHEESE YOUR WAY THERE. I chose to 4 gate every game in order to get into Master League, which made everything much more difficult for me. Destroying Master players in a macro game is infinitely easier than 4 gating them (Yes, I did PvP 4 gates in PvZ -.-). While I did learn how to execute 4 gate pushes very well, it simply was not efficient.
After hitting Master League, it only took me 50 games to bring my macro up to par with other low-mid Master players. In other words, if I chose to play macro game from the start, it probably would have taken only 100 or so games to go from Bronze to Masters.
In 1 year, with no more than 100 matches in BW, no RTS experience (but 10 years PC gaming), and a 6 months pause, i got Diamond, starting from Gold placement > Silver > Bronze > Silver > Gold > Plat > Diamond.
High Diamond people demoted me. At this time i'm like #30 Platinum, mainly playing for lulz. I think i hit a skillcap around Top 25 Diamond on EU Server. But with more work and games, yes it is definitely possible i think.
As a player who started in Bronze, and now finds himself on the verge of Masters, I can certainly vouch for it being possible.
It's taken nearly a year of learning and practice since release, and roughly 1000 1v1's, but so long as you remain dedicated I don't doubt that one day in the near future we'll be addressing you as Master NomNomNom.
It's important to note that getting to Diamond is not the difficult part - it only took me about 3 months to reach Diamond, if that, maybe 300 games. That's because the road to Diamond is paved with Macro, and nothing but. If you have decent fundamentals, you should find yourself there in no time. It's getting to Masters that is the god-awfully difficult part, because it requires a much deeper understanding of the game to achieve.
Step 1: Bind your hatchery and drone and spam them until 500 APM so you look pro
Step 2: Build a pool at 6
Step 3: Attack and place in masters
Jokes aside, i started of with zerg and then switched terran and now playing toss, this was my first RTS game ever and i went from bronze to diamond in season 2 with ~450 games played and aiming for masters in season 3. Just play alot and try out new builds, watch tournaments and streams of your race (i really think that watching streams and tournaments of my race made me improve ALOT) to get good build orders and so. Rather learn different builds for each race instead of like 4 gating your way up against eveything, cause you will get to a point where "cheese" doesent work anymore and then you'll probly get stuck.
I had no RTS experience at all, started in bronze and got to diamond by the end of season 1, now i'm pretty sure i can get to master in this upcoming season.
On July 25 2011 02:40 aeN wrote: I had no RTS experience at all, started in bronze and got to diamond by the end of season 1, now i'm pretty sure i can get to master in this upcoming season.
So it's definitely possible ^^
I have played a lot of computer games in my life, but I have never played any rts outside of the singleplayer. Sc2 was my first in that regard. I still hit diamond in early beta, and have held myself at the top ever since, trying to get myself into GM atm. How? Day9 daily of course! :D Hand on heart I'd still be bronze without it!
With hard work and dedication you can get into Masters. I started out 6 months ago never playing an RTS against another person before in my life. I was bad. Now I am rank 16 in my Diamond division and I hope to reach Masters in Season 3.
You need the drive to want to play. I'm not talking 5 hours a day. I play probably 2-4 hours a day of 1v1 Ladder but as long as you learn from your mistakes and you want to get better, you can get better quite easily.
On July 25 2011 02:45 envisioN . wrote: but as long as you learn from your mistakes and you want to get better, you can get better quite easily.
This, and a hundred times this. You don't need to waste 8 hours a day to hit masters. But if you find mistakes in your own builds, and actively try to fix them, you'll get better a lot quicker. Never, ever, think "I did this perfectly, and still lost" when you're below GM.
Hi! I went from Bronze to masters!! It is very possible! I started in August around when release started, with little RTS experience. I played SC1 but only the custom games. I placed in bronze, and went through to platinum pretty easily. I just played a bunch of games, watched youtube videos (Go Husky and HD!) and watched my replays. Husky and HD helped me get more into the game. Of course as I progressed, I realize their commentary isn't the greatest analysis but they have tons of energy.
When I took the leap from platinum to diamond, I think thats when I started watching Day9. Soon I was watching streams and tournaments and I made it into masters. At the end of season 1 I was diamond. A few weeks after season 2 began, I was masters. When the placement screen popped up I was so happy. I learned from Bronze to masters all by myself, and with the help of some awesome internet starcraft 2 lovers.
It is very possible, but the game should not be about rank. I had tons of fun playing the game and getting promoted from all the leagues is just a bonus. I'm now aiming at GM league, and I know I'm not too far away from that. Just take your time, learn from others, and enjoy the game. Yes you do have to spend some time analyzing your play, but it can be worth it in the end. Its possible but not that easy! Good luck!
I can't confirm this 100% but I heard (from Destiny?) that coL.Minigun was in bronze league when he started and SC2 is his first rts. Now he's playing for Complexity and in Grandmaster's. Maybe that's some inspiration for you.
On the other side though, I think video game skill is partially something you are born with. Like with sports, it's 90% genetics, 10% training. I never played any games seriously before sc2 and I went straight into the top league at all times because I am a natural gamer and it just comes easy for me.
So it's hard to say, if not impossible to predict what your potential is. I know if you practice hard and get the right help, you will improve.
I've literally never played PC games, I only ever had a PSx and all I played as Metal Gear Solid.
I was in bronze since Mid Season 1, I played Zerg and went 7 roach till I got to Gold. At Gold I started losing consistently to Platinum players. I switched to protoss, as I was told it would be easier to learn a macro style of play with Toss.
I was placed back into Bronze by the end of season 1. Started season 2 in Bronze, I actually wasn't able to play as my laptop go stolen at school. I only started play a few weeks before the league lock.
Recently I've been playing many high Bronze/sliver players.
Is there anything I need to include?
I use Grid keys for hotkeys. I can't think of anything else I should include.
I'm looking for practice ideas, realistic goals and general ideas of improving play.
Thanks!
<3
That sounds kind of like me in a way, except you explained my improvement in the beta. I was in silver and gold during the beta (which is basically what low bronze and high bronze is today).
Once the game officially came out I was placed in silver, but barely laddered and finally switched to playing a custom map on WC3 which improved my APM and macro capabilities 1000x. When I went back to playing SC2 I got into gold quickly and then after a while of improving by experimenting with different strategies, I got placed into plat. I'm still experimenting with different strategies atm.
Imo bronze league is a league of denying cheese and starting to learning to macro well. You can get out of bronze league with cheese, but most cheesers don't make it higher than silver or gold. Silver is basically the same deal as bronze, except you see better cheesers. Gold is when macro starts to show up more. Most players in that league can hold of the average cheese.
PS: I spoilered your post because it made my post way too big D:
Yes, it is very possible. When SC2 beta first came out (and I mean like day 1-2 of the beta), I went 0-10 in my placement matches (it was 10 placement matches in beta) and was placed into the now-removed copper league.
After learning about the Day 9 dailies, I had gradually improved during the beta to reach the highest available league at each patch (platinum, then diamond, then masters. Not GM though =D). Just play a good amount of games, learn 1-2 builds per matchup from either Day9 Dailies or watching pro games and then fine tune it to your own style.
I found my biggest turning point that improved my game the most was when watching one of the Day9 dailies (don't remember which one), Day9 said to just focus on your macro. aka always remembering to build scvs/supply depots, and keep churning out units and not focus too much on micro. It doesn't matter in the end if your units act like idiots, if you just have a ton of shit, your opponent won't be able to do much to kill it.
It was mainly because of that daily, that I was able to get into masters league day 1 it came out. Now I'm in masters, but ofc, not the best player or anything (in fact I've been slumping recently) but it is possible if you just want it to say master's league next to your 1v1 ladder.
I didn't even play that many games, most I've ever played on 1 day was about 30 games (custom and ladder) but that only happened once actually. Generally I play about 4-5 ladder games, 10-12 on good days.
TL:DR Yes it's possible, but it won't happen over night. Edit: My previous RTS experience was about 1 year on and off of WC3 and 0 BW.
On July 25 2011 02:54 Krayze wrote: I can't confirm this 100% but I heard (from Destiny?) that coL.Minigun was in bronze league when he started and SC2 is his first rts. Now he's playing for Complexity and in Grandmaster's. Maybe that's some inspiration for you.
On the other side though, I think video game skill is partially something you are born with. Like with sports, it's 90% genetics, 10% training. I never played any games seriously before sc2 and I went straight into the top league at all times because I am a natural gamer and it just comes easy for me.
So it's hard to say, if not impossible to predict what your potential is. I know if you practice hard and get the right help, you will improve.
I disagree. If someone is just terrible at SC2 to begin with ("ooh look at all the pretty toss buildings") then it's obviously 100% training to get better.
If someone starts out in a high league, that usually means they've had experience with another RTS game, keeping it to near 100% training.
The only time genetics intervenes with the ratio is if you learn faster than others.
As everyone has said PRACTICE! Its the best way to become the best you can be! You need to find a good solid play you can work towards everytime you play and refine refine refine until you are confident with your play to try many different builds can adapt. Adapting to a situation is something you need to work around also. Its no good having the most perfect macro build for MMM or a great roach hydra build then know they are moving to you with some many banelings or colosi and just rolf stomps you. Work around situations well is something many people cant do. I know I cant Most of all practice! Everytime you practice, evaluate where you went wrong to help you
I was at the same situation as you a bit less than a year ago. I didn't expect to get masters, but if you keep enjoying the game and learning new things, anything is possible ^^
And whoever said gaming skill is 90% genetics is completely wrong. I think it is more like 1%, and the affecting 1% are disabilities that make your gaming harder.
Its deffinately possible, i started out bronze in beta, and began to watch tons of SCBW and SC2 (mainly Day9 Daily) and by the time the game came out i was diamond, followed by masters when the patch for it came out. To this day i have played less than 500 games, and i truely feel a large portion of it is mine set and knowledge that you can pick up without even playing the game.
I started off silver in beta now I am and it didnt take much effort, I get supply blocked and miss warp ins all the time and my apm is around 60 70. I play toss though so your mileage may wary. I suggest doing 4 gate vs all races until you get to at least plat or diamond, by then you have your confidence up and know how to micro and macro from one base then you can start learning real build orders.
if you practice efficiently, you can easily get from bronze to masters, i was a bronze in phase 2 beta (was plat in phase 1.. idk what happened), and now im masters, all abt knowing how to improve rather than just spamming games
I've been winning games!! YEAAAAH!... But I've been losing quite a few too...
But todays entire session was about losing to Cheese... Usually I'm so lactose intolerant, and I can fight it off and continue with my plan and win... But today..... FML...
I just feel really off my game today. All my macro seemed to slip away and I just could not hold it together. I kept deviating from my plan. Trying to change things on the fly to counter what I saw. But I don't think I can do that just yet. It leads to me forgetting to make probes, becoming supply blocked, dropping another gateway instead of a cyber, putting 5 probes in gas, rallying my nexus to his base my accident, losing my entire army while trying to warp in units, the list continues....
What should I do, when things just don't seem to go my way?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH... I'm so pissed... so much cheese.... I can't macro with that shit.....
I"m gonna go for a run now... I just can't play SC right now... I can't focus...
I probally shouldn't post while in this state...
I keep wanting to scream "STIM IS SO IMBA!!!!"
But I won't because I know the reason I lost is not making enough stuff plus not having my zealots in front. That combined with just moving my units and not a-moving, led to my rage quit...
Go for it! Sc2 was my first rts, and when i started i first had a impressive ratio of 0-32. Now I'm high masters pushing for grandmasters within 4 months. Good Luck! Ps. I did play WoW to Gladiator if that's relevent (i had previous exp in video games)
Hi yeah of course its doable!! Most important thing: watch and learn from ur own replays!! Especially if u lose!! And a bit of advice: keep making probes and spending ur money = plat league in no time! Glhfgg
On July 25 2011 02:45 Garth wrote: masters players aren't that good.
Little bit off topic..but how can the top 2% ranked in the region not be considered "good"?
Well, I'm masters and I think I'm really bad. It takes very little effort to get there.
Define "really bad", compared to top GM you prolly are really bad but compared to bronze, silver, gold you are really good.
You aren't directing this statement at me, but I am going to respond to it anyways.
Master players can not be considered "good" because one is allowed to play like this: http://drop.sc/20765 ...and be in Master League. Don't try to tell me that either players in this game are even close to "good". Personally, I hadn't played in 2 months, so I was bound to make atrocious mistakes in executing my build, in addition to mechanical slip ups. But, when I saw this guy, I thought "Wow, is there a hidden MMR decay in effect or something? How did I get matched against a gold player?"... Then I found out he was "mid" Masters.
Playing the game will automatically lead to you getting better and better and therefore climbing up the ladder up to masters. It's not like the masterleague is filled with progamers, so as long as you try to improve and play the game, you'll eventually get there and if not, then you're not trying enough.
On July 25 2011 02:45 Garth wrote: masters players aren't that good.
Little bit off topic..but how can the top 2% ranked in the region not be considered "good"?
Well, I'm masters and I think I'm really bad. It takes very little effort to get there.
Define "really bad", compared to top GM you prolly are really bad but compared to bronze, silver, gold you are really good.
You aren't directing this statement at me, but I am going to respond to it anyways.
Master players can not be considered "good" because one is allowed to play like this: http://drop.sc/20765 ...and be in Master League. Don't try to tell me that either players in this game are even close to "good". Personally, I hadn't played in 2 months, so I was bound to make atrocious mistakes in executing my build, in addition to mechanical slip ups. But, when I saw this guy, I thought "Wow, is there a hidden MMR decay in effect or something? How did I get matched against a gold player?"... Then I found out he was "mid" Masters.
I haven't watch the replay but i guess its way worse then average master player, but if you compare them to bronze/silver/gold players they would still be counted as "good".
Humm i can tell you to play team games with your friend just for improve your mechanics try some rush that requiere micro and a very little macro management like fast helion zergling who are extremely effective in case you didn't lose them just by try to doing this better and better your hand will be faster and your mechanics better (thats work for me :O)
Remember to utilise Hotkey, keep your money low, and make pylon and probes mothafucka !
Peace
PS : And ladder for see if you improve yourself at starcraft after doing this !!!
I don't think there's anything I can say that hasn't already been said in the last 12 pages, except that I'm very interested in hearing updates on your progress if you can figure out a good way to share that with all of us. I'm happy to see everyone here being so encouraging and helpful.
There are a lot of us here rooting for ya, so do your best and keep this resolve even after all the losing streaks and frustrating moments sure to be in the future.
Copper(beta) -> diamond on the verge of masters here. It's definitely possible. Nom nom nom your way to Masters! :D
This should be filmed a la Nal_Ra's Old Boy. SeeFernando's New Boy!
hey tyhere! of course it is possible mate! CoL.Minigun acknowledged that he started as a silver league player, look where he is now! he even takes games from EGIdra, who practices 10 hours a day for last 5 years
Also i started as a silver league but in 3-4 months even i became a masters player!
Just use your time wisely, take one player as an example, choose 1 or 2 builds for each match up and use them without modifying them for 50-60 games each. (morrow tactic in sc1)
On July 19 2011 16:53 seefernando wrote: Hello everyone,
I'm kinda worried about making this post as TL seems very hardcore about irrelevant post and banning people...
Let me start with saying that I am a Noob. I Suck at SC2 and I suck at video games in general.
There is just something about SC2 that makes me want to improve. I want to be able to predict what my opponent is doing. The rush of holding off a 6 pool and walking in with colossus is amazing!
I want to get into the Masters league. That is my goal. I want my mechanics and macro so perfect that I never get supply blocked or miss a warp in.
I've read a lot of post and talked to a lot of people about my skill level and my abilities.
I want your input. I really want this to be a community experiment. Is it possible for a bronze leguer to get to Masters?
I'm not looking for a miracle. I know it won't happen overnight. But with your help it can happen efficiently.
Yes I have read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208343 and numerous other posts on TL and B.Net, and I am willing to do whatever it takes to get me to masters. I don't want to cheese my way there. I genuinely want to change the way I think, play and act in SC2.
On July 25 2011 02:45 Garth wrote: masters players aren't that good.
Little bit off topic..but how can the top 2% ranked in the region not be considered "good"?
your normal master player makes too many mistakes to be considered good, when they macro they inevitably use BO poker aka they macro too greedily and won't be able to defend even badly executed 1-2 base timing attacks ( I can probably kill 90% of terrans that dont use a 2 rax reactor first with my 4 gate in high masters), most master players suckkkkk at micro because a lot of them have been taught that macro macro macro is the key to being good, but at masters you really need to start focusing on micro too.
I feel in masters that when I get all-inned a lot of the time is isn't rehearsed and I defend it easier than I should have because they don't know how to micro their pushes and don't know how to time them.
There are a lot of reasons why a lot of master players are bad.
Started playing May 2011 with NFI what I was doing, started in Bronze. A LOT of Day9, The Next 12 Weeks TvX episodes with Mr Bitter, and a bit of practice (played total about 80 games during season 2).
Sorry to bring this backup but I wanted to give you a bit of hope: Bought this game at release and didn't ladder 1v1 much till 2011. At which point I started working at it. I have climbed up every league one by one since then, today reaching masters:
So go for it, if you work hard and play hard you'll get in to masters before you know it.
EPT
. Good luck!![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/C2XUT.png)
but im afraid i don't play enough 1-2 hours a day, and somedays not at all.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JNeLa.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii268/RwFury/MastersLeague070811.png)
