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I havent confronted her or my family yet, and I'm kind of caught on what I should do.
I'm 18, she's 16, we're both pretty close, and it's illegal for her to be smoking (tobacco) here in the states.
I have no idea what would make her think that its ok, I mean, our father has been killing himself with cigarettes since he was 13 years old. Everyone in the family, including her, expresses their disgust with his habit. Which just makes me even more confused.
I basically found out she was smoking because a few weeks ago she asked me if i could buy a lighter for her, since she's underage, which i told her no. Over the next few days my mom kept finding cigarette butts in the sink, but our father was out on business, so it couldnt be him. Then earlier today I was in the mudroom and found a pack of cigarettes inside her jacket pocket when I was looking for some gum.
So like, as you can tell, im really confused atm. Should I do anything to intervene? Should I tell my parents, should I talk to her about it, or should I just ignore the whole thing altogether?
I know all the risks and I know she knows all the risks which is why I think i should do something before it becomes a habit.
Any suggestions TL?
EDIT: for clarification
I know it probably sounds like I'm overreacting... but if you think about it this way you might undestand my concern.
Our father is a pack a day + smoker for most of his life. He cant excercise, he wakes up to caughing fits and has trouble breathing. Doctors say even if he quit smoking tomorrow the damage he's done is enough to reduce his life expectancy by years. Because of his smoking, me and my brother both developed severe asthma and have to take inhalers etc. every day.
I just cant help but be concerned when I see her starting to pick up smoking because I know what it leads to and how it affects the people around you by first hand experience.
 
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Don't tell your parents. If my sister did that to me, I would be so angry with her, and I honestly wouldn't talk to her for so long.
If you value your relationship with her, talk to her about it. Ask her why, and if she gives you a reason, just let it be. You can't make choices for her, and you can't force her to stop. It's her health and her body, so let her figure it out.
And don't rag on her to stop, either. It's only going to irritate her and make her dislike you. ;o
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On March 28 2011 07:29 Raeleigh wrote:
Don't tell your parents. If my sister did that to me, I would be so angry with her, and I honestly wouldn't talk to her for so long.
If you value your relationship with her, talk to her about it. Ask her why, and if she gives you a reason, just let it be. You can't make choices for her, and you can't force her to stop. It's her health and her body, so let her figure it out.
And don't rag on her to stop, either. It's only going to irritate her and make her dislike you. ;o
This.
I was literally going to say the same thing.
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May as well talk to her about it. Pretty sure its normal for most people to try smoking, underage or otherwise. I get the impression she's smoked more than 1 cigarette, but still.
In the end, she is harming nobody other than herself. Smoking underage isn't illegal enough to get thrown in jail or anything, especially when she's probably doing most of it (if not all) at home. If you're concerned, tell her, but some people have to make up their own mind on how to live life.
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Went pretty much the same way for me and my sister (ages ago, she stopped smoking when she graduated), though she's older than me and smoking is legal >16 here.
Her reason? I would suggest it's her circle of "friends". By the way, knowing the risks is going to do fuck all. What does help - and pretty much the only thing I know of that helps (short of intrinsic motivation on your sister's part) - is higher tobacco prices.
All you can do is tell her you're concerned, honestly concerned about her. She will probably tell you to leave her alone and that it's her life, her decision, whatever (if smoking is one of the few things she can do to escape others' control then this might become quite a persistent habit), but yea. You can't force her to do anything, just show some love.
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Talk to her about it. Try to convince her to stop. If that doesn't work, talk about it with your mom and try to get her to act against your sisters bad habit. When your sister is 40 years old and has lung cancer, she will honestly wish you had intervened.
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On March 28 2011 07:33 etheovermind wrote:
Talk to her about it. Try to convince her to stop. If that doesn't work, talk about it with your mom and try to get her to act against your sisters bad habit. When your sister is 40 years old and has lung cancer, she will honestly wish you had intervened.
This.
First personally, then parents. This is a thing that concerns the whole family.
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United States24690 Posts
Going right to mom/dad is probably not the best idea. If she insists on continuing doing it even if you discuss it with her then I think doing nothing is the wrong thing as well... until she's 18 at least. In the long term you shouldn't let her keep it a secret from your parents... but give her a chance first.
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Since you two are close I would suggest to only talk to her about it. Ask hey why and how she got in to it. If she says "I don't know" it's probably peer preasure and/or she's trying to be "cool" in which case you should tell your parents imo. She is under age after all 
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On March 28 2011 07:29 Raeleigh wrote:
And don't rag on her to stop, either. It's only going to irritate her and make her dislike you. ;o
Well her smoking is obviously irritating the OP, what gives her the right to do that?
Don't just convince yourself that you're okay with it. If you feel so strongly about it, convince her to stop or let her know that your (and your mother's?) relationship with her will suffer from her continuing to smoke.
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i would smack her upside the head
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If you do decide to tell your parents, I would suggest you tell her that you're going to tell them, and tell her why. Otherwise it might come off as if you were just doing it to show her that she isn't in control of things. Which would probably lead to her becoming more secretive about it. And quite frankly, if she learns to be really secretive about things, the next drug she uses might not be found in her pocket.
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If you value your relationship with your siblings, I see no reason to tell your parents. At all.
Me and my sister are super close, and I tell her a LOT of things I wouldn't tell my family, or my best friends. Because she accepts me still, and doesn't bring it up.
My sister is 7 years younger than me. If I found out that she had started smoking, or drinking underage, I would be absolutely devastated, but I would not force her to stop, or tell my parents, unless it was getting out of hand. I would make sure she was okay at the very least, and suggest other things for her to do instead of smoking, or drinking.
Convince her to stop, ask her to stop, tell her you're doing it because you care, but don't buy her the smokes, and don't tell your parents. Shes' not going to trust you if you do. She may thank you in the long run if this does become a bad habit, but trust will still be broken.
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1) She's an adult she has to make this decision for herself ultimately.
2) It's legal in the UK and in most of Europe to smoke at 16. It's just that the U.S. happens to be a bit more conservative. It's not like shes on drugs or doing something actually wrong.
3) Don't tell your parent's.
If you want to try and intervene speak to her but treat her as an adult, don't try and force your opinion down her throat. Ultimately no matter how stupid it is to smoke she needs to make the autonomous decision by herself and she's going to anyway whether you like it or not.
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She wants attention.. why else would she ask you to buy her a lighter when she could probably get it from a friend without revealing her new habit? You make it sound like shes relatively careless about hiding smoking.... when my bro did it for a while he took insane measures to make it unknown.
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On March 28 2011 07:35 SkytoM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 07:33 etheovermind wrote:
Talk to her about it. Try to convince her to stop. If that doesn't work, talk about it with your mom and try to get her to act against your sisters bad habit. When your sister is 40 years old and has lung cancer, she will honestly wish you had intervened. This. First personally, then parents. This is a thing that concerns the whole family.
If OP tells his parents, that would make him a snitch. Would suck to have a sibling as a snitch
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Definitely ask her why she started if she thinks its disgusting. If your mom is finding cigarettes and knows it isn't your dad then she probably already knows about it especially with the smell that comes with it.
On a side note I just learned what a mudroom is lol.
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United States24690 Posts
On March 28 2011 07:40 Raeleigh wrote:
If you value your relationship with your siblings, I see no reason to tell your parents. At all.
Me and my sister are super close, and I tell her a LOT of things I wouldn't tell my family, or my best friends. Because she accepts me still, and doesn't bring it up.
My sister is 7 years younger than me. If I found out that she had started smoking, or drinking underage, I would be absolutely devastated, but I would not force her to stop, or tell my parents, unless it was getting out of hand. I would make sure she was okay at the very least, and suggest other things for her to do instead of smoking, or drinking.
Convince her to stop, ask her to stop, tell her you're doing it because you care, but don't buy her the smokes, and don't tell your parents. Shes' not going to trust you if you do. She may thank you in the long run if this does become a bad habit, but trust will still be broken.
Keep in mind his sister didn't confide in him. It would be different if she told him. He discovered it (not that she seems to be trying that hard to hide it) himself.
Also he could 'accidentally' make sure his mom found out :p
On March 28 2011 07:45 apm66 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 07:35 SkytoM wrote:On March 28 2011 07:33 etheovermind wrote:
Talk to her about it. Try to convince her to stop. If that doesn't work, talk about it with your mom and try to get her to act against your sisters bad habit. When your sister is 40 years old and has lung cancer, she will honestly wish you had intervened. This. First personally, then parents. This is a thing that concerns the whole family. If OP tells his parents, that would make him a snitch. Would suck to have a sibling as a snitch
Refusing to 'snitch' has lead to many tragic deaths and chronic illnesses in the US in the past. Snitching isn't something to be taken lightly but isn't something that should be off the table in matters of health and well-being either.
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Don't tell your parents, seriously. You would ruin your seemingly very good relationship forever. She's old enough to make her own decisions, I assume she knows smoking isn't too healthy.
There has to be one thing or two that you yourself wouldn't want to be told to your parents, imagine your sis would tell them
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On March 28 2011 07:46 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 07:40 Raeleigh wrote:
If you value your relationship with your siblings, I see no reason to tell your parents. At all.
Me and my sister are super close, and I tell her a LOT of things I wouldn't tell my family, or my best friends. Because she accepts me still, and doesn't bring it up.
My sister is 7 years younger than me. If I found out that she had started smoking, or drinking underage, I would be absolutely devastated, but I would not force her to stop, or tell my parents, unless it was getting out of hand. I would make sure she was okay at the very least, and suggest other things for her to do instead of smoking, or drinking.
Convince her to stop, ask her to stop, tell her you're doing it because you care, but don't buy her the smokes, and don't tell your parents. Shes' not going to trust you if you do. She may thank you in the long run if this does become a bad habit, but trust will still be broken. Keep in mind his sister didn't confide in him. It would be different if she told him. He discovered it (not that she seems to be trying that hard to hide it) himself. Also he could 'accidentally' make sure his mom found out :p
Haha, this is true. I'd still feel guilty if my mom 'accidentally' found out if my sister was doing something. :p
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On March 28 2011 07:45 apm66 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 07:35 SkytoM wrote:On March 28 2011 07:33 etheovermind wrote:
Talk to her about it. Try to convince her to stop. If that doesn't work, talk about it with your mom and try to get her to act against your sisters bad habit. When your sister is 40 years old and has lung cancer, she will honestly wish you had intervened. This. First personally, then parents. This is a thing that concerns the whole family. If OP tells his parents, that would make him a snitch. Would suck to have a sibling as a snitch
Personally I would rather be a snitch than a bad brother. If I started smoking and nobody stopped me because they didn't want to be a snitch, I would be pretty disappointed in them.
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Do not pass up this amazing opportunity at blackmail. You now have a personal slave.
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Your way overeacting, talk to her say that ur concerned but other than that if she wants to continue their is nothing u can do or ur parents for the matter.
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Her parents will probably be able to tell sooner or later.
As a moral and caring brother, you should tell your parents but ask them if they can pretend like they smelled it.
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In almost all of Europe the smoking age is 16, and often not enforced, and a lot of young people smoke for a little while. I guess it's not as popular in the US or whatever, but it's really not a big deal imo for a 16 year old girl to experiment for a few weeks. I guess you could talk to her and make sure she knows the risks and shit, but I think you're overreacting a little bit.
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Make her feel extremely guilty by informing her that at a very young age you became terrified that you would die from second hand smoke at the hands of your father and now that she has started you have began to go into a deep depression for fear that those nearest to you will lead to your demise.
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Next time you find her cigarettes, stick each one up your butt and put it back. The cigarette butt will taste like shit, and the smoke itself will smell like ass
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I wouldn't be surprised if your mom knows already, if she told you she's been finding cigarette butts in the sink at which time you probably told her it wasn't you and your dad is away, she can probably put two and two together. Try to understand the reason why she is smoking - at her age it's likely due to her friends smoking or the fact that women tend to use it as a lazy way to lose weight (appetite suppressant).
She could be just experimenting, which is a pretty natural thing so I wouldn't make a big deal out of it unless you suspect that she is smoking regularly. The last thing a teenager likes to be told is that they straight up shouldn't do something, so if you want her to quit I would just subtly hint to her that many guys are put off by girls that smoke.
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On March 28 2011 07:42 TechniQ.UK wrote:
1) She's an adult she has to make this decision for herself ultimately.
2) It's legal in the UK and in most of Europe to smoke at 16. It's just that the U.S. happens to be a bit more conservative. It's not like shes on drugs or doing something actually wrong.
3) Don't tell your parent's.
If you want to try and intervene speak to her but treat her as an adult, don't try and force your opinion down her throat. Ultimately no matter how stupid it is to smoke she needs to make the autonomous decision by herself and she's going to anyway whether you like it or not.
1) 16 is far from being an adult
2) Just because it might be legal somewhere for her age doesn't mean it's not a big deal.
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I know it probably sounds like I'm overreacting... but if you think about it this way you might undestand my concern.
Our father is a pack a day + smoker for most of his life. He cant excercise, he wakes up to caughing fits and has trouble breathing. Doctors say even if he quit smoking tomorrow the damage he's done is enough to reduce his life expectancy by years. Because of his smoking, me and my brother both developed severe asthma and have to take inhalers etc. every day.
I just cant help but be concerned when I see her starting to pick up smoking because I know what it leads to and how it affects the people around you by first hand experience.
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On March 28 2011 07:26 Hakker wrote:
I basically found out she was smoking because a few weeks ago she asked me if i could buy a lighter for her, since she's underage, which i told her no. Over the next few days my mom kept finding cigarette butts in the sink, but our father was out on business, so it couldnt be him. Then earlier today I was in the mudroom and found a pack of cigarettes inside her jacket pocket when I was looking for some gum.
Your sister isn't trying to hide her habit at all. Unless your parents are totally oblivious, I think they'll figure this one out in their own time.
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I suggest just mentioning it and asking if she wants to talk about it. Otherwise drop it unless it becomes out of hand and a serious risk to her health. I believe there's still time for her to make the decision to stop before it becomes an addiction.
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she is just experimenting. don't worry about it. everyone including you will have a drinking phase when they turn 21 and they don't become alcoholics.
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umm I thought it was perfectly legal for underage people to smoke in the USA. Just illegal to buy? Was I wrong my whole life?
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If you value your relationship with her, talk to her about it. Ask her why, and if she gives you a reason, just let it be. You can't make choices for her, and you can't force her to stop. It's her health and her body, so let her figure it out.
You're an idiot. If she gives you a reason, help her deal with that situation. Just to let her kill herself with smoking is going to bust not only your relationship with your sister but the entire family. You cannot let her do this to her body. You know that it's wrong, unhealthy and stupid; you can't just sit idly by while she slowly deteriorates herself.
You don't force her to do anything, but you must make any and all efforts to convince her to stop smoking and relieve any stresses that may be causing this.
I'm sorry but all this talk about not doing anything is just retarded. Forget the short-term "shock factor" and think about the long-term! What if your sister becomes a chronic smoker and falls into the same condition as your father?
User was warned for this post
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On March 28 2011 08:16 Terranist wrote:
she is just experimenting. don't worry about it. everyone including you will have a drinking phase when they turn 21 and they don't become alcoholics.
Not quite true. I'm nearly 22 and have never drank more than a sip of wine once. I think beer smells fucking terrible and the wine I tried I thought tasted like tar water.
Also for those that are saying it's her decision alone need to realize that its also a health concern for anybody she constantly smokes around. I can tell you from personal experience that if you have a family member that smokes inside the house it has a high chance of leading to breathing problems and in rare cases even worse. Not to mention the terrible smell your house has along with a 10 ft radius around it. I honestly can't understand how smoking is legal while other drugs with much lesser effects are not.
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On March 28 2011 08:33 ragingfungus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 08:16 Terranist wrote:
she is just experimenting. don't worry about it. everyone including you will have a drinking phase when they turn 21 and they don't become alcoholics. Not quite true. I'm nearly 22 and have never drank more than a sip of wine once. I think beer smells fucking terrible and the wine I tried I thought tasted like tar water. Also for those that are saying it's her decision alone need to realize that its also a health concern for anybody she constantly smokes around. I can tell you from personal experience that if you have a family member that smokes inside the house it has a high chance of leading to breathing problems and in rare cases even worse. Not to mention the terrible smell your house has along with a 10 ft radius around it. I honestly can't understand how smoking is legal while other drugs with much lesser effects are not.
you need to keep drinking it till you like it 
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On March 28 2011 07:47 Leviance wrote:
Don't tell your parents, seriously. You would ruin your seemingly very good relationship forever. She's old enough to make her own decisions, I assume she knows smoking isn't too healthy.
There has to be one thing or two that you yourself wouldn't want to be told to your parents, imagine your sis would tell them
Wow talk about an exaggeration. Yeah she will probably be pissed for some time but I'm sure she will forget about it. They are siblings after all and I'm sure she doesn't want her brother to smoke even though she is doing it right now.
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All you can do is tell her how big of a mistake she's making. She's going to ignore you, because that's what stupid kids, and more importantly addicted smokers, do best. Your family will never be rid of cigarettes. Control your family's future by making sure that your children avoid the cigarette using members of your family. Do not let them be impressed upon whatsoever if you want them to be healthy. Even with all of this, it's very likely even your children will smoke, because your children are going to be born so biologically willing to accept nicotine.
Fuck cigarettes.
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On March 28 2011 07:37 mahnini wrote:
i would smack her upside the head This is the answer, everyone needs a good smacking once in a while.
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On March 28 2011 08:08 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 07:26 Hakker wrote:
I basically found out she was smoking because a few weeks ago she asked me if i could buy a lighter for her, since she's underage, which i told her no. Over the next few days my mom kept finding cigarette butts in the sink, but our father was out on business, so it couldnt be him. Then earlier today I was in the mudroom and found a pack of cigarettes inside her jacket pocket when I was looking for some gum.
Your sister isn't trying to hide her habit at all. Unless your parents are totally oblivious, I think they'll figure this one out in their own time.
Yeah sounds like she wants to be found out. My little sister did this exact same thing when she was a teenager to force a confrontation with our father.
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Hyrule19059 Posts
Smack her. A lot.
If someone had beaten the shit out of me when I started and told me not to start, I wouldn't have. It really sucks to be a smoker :<
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I wouldn't do anything about it. It's her choice, whether your dad is a heavy smoker or not. Just because she's smoking now doesn't mean she won't ever come to the realization that she might end up like her dad. That and you will put a pretty hard dent in your relationship with your sister as well. Even if your mom doesn't tell her you told her, I'm sure she's smart enough to figure things out. If it was hard drugs or something then I'd be a little worried.
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On March 28 2011 08:27 oceanblack wrote:Show nested quote +If you value your relationship with her, talk to her about it. Ask her why, and if she gives you a reason, just let it be. You can't make choices for her, and you can't force her to stop. It's her health and her body, so let her figure it out. You're an idiot. If she gives you a reason, help her deal with that situation. Just to let her kill herself with smoking is going to bust not only your relationship with your sister but the entire family. You cannot let her do this to her body. You know that it's wrong, unhealthy and stupid; you can't just sit idly by while she slowly deteriorates herself. You don't force her to do anything, but you must make any and all efforts to convince her to stop smoking and relieve any stresses that may be causing this. I'm sorry but all this talk about not doing anything is just retarded. Forget the short-term "shock factor" and think about the long-term! What if your sister becomes a chronic smoker and falls into the same condition as your father?
I would appreciate it if you didn't call me an idiot for no reason. Besides, what you say is what you are.(^_~)
The biggest thing is she is 16. If you're a 16 year old girl(which you might be), you don't know what's happening, what's wrong, or what's going to happen any better than any other girl or guy at that age.
Obviously if she's taking it too far and smoking a pack a day, a pack in a week, you do something about it. But if she's just fucking around and "trying" things out, let it be. You don't fuck shit up because you're being an overreacting fool.
It's her life, let her live it, and let her make her own mistakes. I've made a million mistakes in my life, and I've only learned from them. I tried smoking, I did it for a while, I got over it. It wasn't worth it. In the end, she'll see that too. :/
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Find the name of the most popular dude in school and be like 'hey sister, do u think that so and so of the football team will make out w a gurl who tastes like smokey asshole, because I don't LOL!!!' and just continue to get worse with the insults until she stops
you could also start printing out a jpeg of the day for her of someone's tarred out lungs, or you could do the math for a pack a day for a whole year and just keep bringing that up. It will surely come out to the cost of a car
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United States24690 Posts
On March 28 2011 09:31 Hawk wrote:
you could also start printing out a jpeg of the day for her of someone's tarred out lungs, or you could do the math for a pack a day for a whole year and just keep bringing that up. It will surely come out to the cost of a car
If a pack is 10 dollars then a pack a day is $3652.50 a year.
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On March 28 2011 09:31 Hawk wrote:
Find the name of the most popular dude in school and be like 'hey sister, do u think that so and so of the football team will make out w a gurl who tastes like smokey asshole, because I don't LOL!!!' and just continue to get worse with the insults until she stops
you could also start printing out a jpeg of the day for her of someone's tarred out lungs, or you could do the math for a pack a day for a whole year and just keep bringing that up. It will surely come out to the cost of a car
I overly enjoy these ideas. LOL.
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Technically, it's not illegal. She can't purchase cigarettes, but it's legal for her to smoke them.
That said, I like Hawk's idea.
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On March 28 2011 09:34 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 09:31 Hawk wrote:
you could also start printing out a jpeg of the day for her of someone's tarred out lungs, or you could do the math for a pack a day for a whole year and just keep bringing that up. It will surely come out to the cost of a car If a pack is 10 dollars then a pack a day is $3652.50 a year.
yeah thats a good chunk of change for most of us here. that's a fucking fortune at 16.
shit man, i still want to punch myself in the dick every time i think of how much daily coffee at work costs me and that's a fraction of the cost. people think of things a little differently when there's a number there.
but yeah, knowing a lot of smokers and addicts of various other things, you wont influence the person by being passive. you have to be a huge dickhead (without going to the parents... i'd say that's last resort)
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It's a bit of a tough situation. I currently have a troublesome younger sister that has been caught smoking, stealing money, overdosing and other things. She's also quite a bit younger than your sister.
Could go on for a while about this situation but I don't want to hijack your blog.
My advice is to leave it alone, as in don't tell your parents. If you are really close to your sister, then eventually conversations with her will naturally end up on this topic. If you focus on stopping the smoking, she'll just learn to hide it. So the only way to help is to approach it carefully to find out why she's smoking and try help with that.
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What does why have to do with it? some people just like the physical act of smoking. others like the taste, and maybe some wanna be some kind of badass on the playground. The reason really doesnt matter; one's as dumb as the other
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On March 28 2011 07:29 Raeleigh wrote:
Don't tell your parents. If my sister did that to me, I would be so angry with her, and I honestly wouldn't talk to her for so long.
If you value your relationship with her, talk to her about it. Ask her why, and if she gives you a reason, just let it be. You can't make choices for her, and you can't force her to stop. It's her health and her body, so let her figure it out.
And don't rag on her to stop, either. It's only going to irritate her and make her dislike you. ;o
What a selfish way to look at life.
Let people abuse themselves ... disregard the consequences to themselves and the moral/psychological effect on those that love you ... so you won't be labelled a snitch? Are you really being serious?
Did you not read the part where OP expresses his already present disgust at the way his father is throwing away his life? And now he sees his sister going down the same path and you recommend he should just sit on his hands in solace, and despair. Even still, you assume she will surely learn on her own to stop ... how can you even say that not knowing anything about the girl, her family, her external influences.
If I would have to name only one thing that truly annoys me about smokers, it would definitely be their selfish hatred of others that try to get them to stop the habit. That your family and friends express true and honest concern about your health and well being ... to shrug that off because you are so addicted ... such weak individuals.
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On March 28 2011 09:57 Hawk wrote:
What does why have to do with it? some people just like the physical act of smoking. others like the taste, and maybe some wanna be some kind of badass on the playground. The reason really doesnt matter; one's as dumb as the other
Because if it's just a dumb young girl doing a dumb thing there's no need to turn it into something huge. And you can try to tell people doing bad things to stop doing bad things, but that doesn't often work for some reason.
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On March 28 2011 07:51 prOxi.swAMi wrote:
Do not pass up this amazing opportunity at blackmail. You now have a personal slave.
ahaha..
with so many different options, i dont think this is going to help you very much :l
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On March 28 2011 10:02 Nytefish wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 09:57 Hawk wrote:
What does why have to do with it? some people just like the physical act of smoking. others like the taste, and maybe some wanna be some kind of badass on the playground. The reason really doesnt matter; one's as dumb as the other Because if it's just a dumb young girl doing a dumb thing there's no need to turn it into something huge. And you can try to tell people doing bad things to stop doing bad things, but that doesn't often work for some reason.
I think like almost every smoker ever started off as a dipshit kid either doing it to look cool or because a friend did it or a similarly dumb reason. And it always begins with bumming stoges, then getting a pack that you milk for a week, then that turns into a few days, then a few packs a week...
I'm 25 now and I know a whole shitload of smokers, most of whom i've known prior to them picking up the habit. I can think of exactly one person off the top of my head that started as a social/drunk smoker and stayed that way. Literally every other single one picked up the habit on a large scale at some point. Anecdotal evidence and all that shit, but it's backed up by plenty of others
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Well, I can tell you that even though it wasn't cigarettes, I was able to talk my sister out of several bad boyfriends, which I consider to be quite the achievement. Usually didn't take more than "Sis,... I know you can do better than this." Just the right mix of passive aggression, genuine concern and that brief moment of brotherly affection.
On March 28 2011 08:27 oceanblack wrote:
If she gives you a reason, help her deal with that situation.
I second that.
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On March 28 2011 10:14 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 10:02 Nytefish wrote:On March 28 2011 09:57 Hawk wrote:
What does why have to do with it? some people just like the physical act of smoking. others like the taste, and maybe some wanna be some kind of badass on the playground. The reason really doesnt matter; one's as dumb as the other Because if it's just a dumb young girl doing a dumb thing there's no need to turn it into something huge. And you can try to tell people doing bad things to stop doing bad things, but that doesn't often work for some reason. I think like almost every smoker ever started off as a dipshit kid either doing it to look cool or because a friend did it or a similarly dumb reason. And it always begins with bumming stoges, then getting a pack that you milk for a week, then that turns into a few days, then a few packs a week... I'm 25 now and I know a whole shitload of smokers, most of whom i've known prior to them picking up the habit. I can think of exactly one person off the top of my head that started as a social/drunk smoker and stayed that way. Literally every other single one picked up the habit on a large scale at some point. Anecdotal evidence and all that shit, but it's backed up by plenty of others
Well I didn't literally mean "find out the exact reason why she smokes". What I mean is to make a judegement whether it's one of those "rebellious phase" things that will wash over or something more serious.
In my experience, hassling a smoker isn't effective at all, even if they are a close friend/family.
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She's not going to stop unless you employ violence. Terror is the great motivator, I always say. Unleash hell my friend, unleash hell.
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Get your parents in on it and have an intervention. Sit her down in a room with both your parents and then get her to smoke 2 cartons of cigarrettes in front of both of you. Then get your dad to tell her thats what he feels like everyday. If she still want to smoke after that then thats her life and her choice. Most likely that experience will be so bad for her that her throat and chest will burn for days and she will realise what 200 cigarrettes will do to you. If it doesnt even bother her then its too late for her and you can thank that medicare will look after her when you cannot.
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Yeah, I'd be concerned for her health.
Do what you can for her to quit the habit, before it becomes a full blown habit. Wouldn't involve the parents initially, though I wouldn't rule it out. She is a kid after all.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
show her you and your brothers inhaler and how it was caused by smoking D:
well the other advice in this thread is good already
good luck
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"I'm disappointed in you." Makes you feel so guilty when a family member say those 4 words to you. Sit down and talk to her, tell her how you feel about it.
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On March 28 2011 07:37 mahnini wrote:
i would smack her upside the head
Pretty much this.
A couple years back I caught my (then 14 year old) sister smoking in the back yard. I quite literally smacked the cigarette out of her mouth and asked her if she was + Show Spoiler + stupid or something, then reminded her of her grandfather's voice box and lung cancer...
But thats me and I am a jerk.
The correct responce would probably be just to talk to her about it. See why, provide your opinion and possible solutions (such as if she is smoking for attention, give her better ideas) and just generally be there. Everyone has the right to choose, adn you cannot change that. Trying to influence the choice now, that is what family is for.
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It really depends on the relationship you have with your sister.
Ultimately, at the end of the day (or 2 years or whenever it is that she supports herself financially) she can do whatever she wants with her body. What you have an actual impact on and say in is your relationship with her.
Personally, I don't keep friends around (or family) who betray my trust, life is just too short. Telling her you are concerned is one thing, going and getting your parents involved endangers her relationship with them, and certainly your relationship with her. Does that matter? You need to decide. If you try everything you can (including hurting those relationships) and she still decides to smoke, what's been gained?
This comes from a lot of personal experience. Cancer runs rampant in my family, and my mom is a heavy smoker who is probably doomed to the same fate. Alcoholism and its repercussions runs rampant in my family, and my dad is an alcoholic with heart problems. My sister is a cocaine addict, who has fallen to such lows as living on the street and lying/cheating /stealing for money.
I've tried numerous different ways of trying to encourage (sometimes even force) good behaviour, but the truth is there is nothing I can do. At that point I need to consider two things: a) how much their relationship matters to me and what actions I can do to make sure that that relationship stays healthy and positive b) how much their bad decisions negative effect my well being (regarding worry, sadness, etc.)
People are going to make bad decisions, many of them long term. Does that make them worth writing off? Some people in my life, my unfortunate answer has been yes; other's have easily been a no.
Not trying to trivialize your situation, but your 16 year old sister smoking a few cigarettes (probably because it's the 'cool thing to do') is pretty light in the big scope of things. Life may hold much more difficult scenarios ahead, so use this as a learning experience in determining what matters to you: is your relationships with other human beings, or your policing of their lives, more important to you?
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What i did when i caught my sister with ciggs (she was 16 or 17 i was like 13) i grabbed some Styrofoam that was on the ground, it was a big block of it for a package, and hit her in the head repeatedly until she promised to stop.
She still smokes but quite for awhile lol. Basically, its a life choice, explain you think its dumb and if she still wishes to do it, that's her "problem" as her smoking doesn't really affect anyone but herself assuming she is polite and doesn't smoke around people who dont want her to. When my parents found out they were furious, still dont like her smoking but got over it fast on account she never smelt or was seen smoking around the house n such.
It being illegal isnt really a big deal imo, most people start those habbits young. Almost all my friends did. And again she might just be in a phase, she could very well just grow out of it. Just talk to her about it, and let her make a choice. A choice about her, dont get all omg you smoke i hate you, because thats just silly.
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Have a little discussion to see if you can get her to stop. If not, tell your parents. They have a greater right to know about this than you. Would you want to know your 16-year old kid was smoking? Also , arguments about "choice" doesn't work when you've got a 16-year old kid who is more concerned about self-image than self-preservation in her mind.
Who cares if she'll get a bit pissed at you. I "tell" on my younger brother all the time when I can't reason him to not do some of his stupid plans. I don't have the authority like my parents to shield him from endangering himself. Plus, it's not like she came to you in confidence or anything (seeing as OP had to infer the habit via circumstantial evidence). Also smoking is a pretty taxing habit (on health and funds), it's better to nip it in the bud at an early age and hope she'll be more sensible in the future when the "choice" is hers. As for the point about her doing it anyway despite home repercussions, it really doesn't matter that she could just do it anyway. That's not a compelling justification for inaction on your part.
Well that's what I'd basically do.
Edit: But then again, most of my discussions with my brother generally tend to work. I've never really had to deal with a younger sibling who disregards all forms of reason and concern of his/her older brother. Then again, all sibling relationships are different so you've got to probably figure this one out depending on the circumstances of your particular relationship with your sister. So take my advice with a grain of salt really from a guy whose an older brother in a different family environment.
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Tip: You might find 'Nonviolent Communication' by Marshall Rosenberg to be helpful in approaching similar situations like this one (or anything that involves human interaction, really).
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definitely dont tell your parents about it. she is probably very aware of the risks that come with smoking, and you "informing" her about that is just gonna make you look like a smartass and will not make her want to quit. I think you should accept the fact that your sister smokes, because there is no way for you to stop her from smoking if she really wants to keep doing it unless you have 24/7 surveillance on her or something crazy like that.... she will probably just have smokes whenever you aren't around or something and start hiding the fact that she smokes from you like she would hide the fact from parents. Honestly, I think your sister isn't going to quit until she really wants to quit herself, and bitching at her/tattling on her about it isn't going to help her at all. Instead, you should be open and accepting about it, telling her that it's her choice and that you personally can't do anything about it, but you will always be there to support her if she makes the decision to quit.
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On March 28 2011 13:03 lvatural wrote:
Have a little discussion to see if you can get her to stop. If not, tell your parents. They have a greater right to know about this than you. Would you want to know your 16-year old kid was smoking? Also , arguments about "choice" doesn't work when you've got a 16-year old kid who is more concerned about self-image than self-preservation in her mind. And can you imagine if the parents go as far as searching her and her room constantly? that could ruin a family if the kid flips out about it.
Who cares if she'll get a bit pissed at you. I "tell" on my younger brother all the time when I can't reason him to not do some of his stupid plans. I don't have the authority like my parents to shield him from endangering himself. Plus, it's not like she came to you in confidence or anything (seeing as OP had to infer the habit via circumstantial evidence). Also smoking is a pretty taxing habit (on health and funds), it's better to nip it in the bud at an early age and hope she'll be more sensible in the future when the "choice" is hers. As for the point about her doing it anyway despite home repercussions, it really doesn't matter that she could just do it anyway. That's not a compelling justification for inaction on your part.
Well that's what I'd basically do.
Edit: But then again, most of my discussions with my brother generally tend to work. I've never really had to deal with a younger sibling who disregards all forms of reason and concern of his/her older brother. Then again, all sibling relationships are different so you've got to probably figure this one out depending on the circumstances of your particular relationship with your sister. So take my advice with a grain of salt really from a guy whose an older brother in a different family environment.
Do you really think she will stop because her parents ground her or punish her or do some other thing parents do that never work? If she wants to smoke, the parents knowing, and TRYING to stop her isnt going to do anything but cause drama. Its silly to think the parents can stop it.
When in your childhood did your parents catch you doing something that you want to do often, and actually have it stop you long term? Hell when i was young i would get grounded from video games for w/e reason. Grades, sneaking out (and then i just would sneak out anyway... cuz i got caught like once every 50 times.). Usually banned from my computer. Guess what? when they weren't home, or asleep i would just pull out another power cord, cuz they are all the same and plug the bad boy in.
Parents arent what will make a 16year old stop smoking, but he, being the older brother is probably the best bet. If that doesn't work with a good talking then she will smoke. Life goes on, just a little shorter.
And who is to say she is doing it for self-image? i hated in school they made you practice how to say no to drugs and that its "not cool". Telling me i will be pressured in all hell to be a cool kid and do drugs/ciggs or no one will like me, then practice how to say no and still be a friend. It was stupid because when reality came and i got offered drugs, saying no ended with, ok thats cool. Moving on.
i just think telling parents is unnecessary drama. If they catch on and ask go ahead and tell them, if not let her be her, and talk to her about how its a bad move, give her a educated choice. Its not like non-smoking propaganda isnt shoved down their throats in school. Most people under 18 know the risks, seen the photos and still do it. If that's their choice more power to them.
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You should tell her to just wait a few years until she's at least 18 or whatever (so it's legal). Or even later than that. Drugs and alcohol have worse effects on developing brains.
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On March 28 2011 07:33 etheovermind wrote:
Talk to her about it. Try to convince her to stop. If that doesn't work, talk about it with your mom and try to get her to act against your sisters bad habit. When your sister is 40 years old and has lung cancer, she will honestly wish you had intervened.
when you are 16 you are too stupid to think beyond next week.
One day she will thank you.
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I think it'd be best to beat your sister up, lock her up in a room with no cigarettes for about three weeks, and just bring her food and water until the addiction leaches out of her system. Nicotine is not a choice for some people. It's an addiction. This isn't about making choices. She probably tried it once or twice on a whim, then couldn't stop herself, and is now a smoking monster fiend. She needs an intervention from her loving brother and family, not respect, privacy, friendship etc. Respect and a close brotherly bond sure don't mean much when you're on your deathbed with a cancerous tumor eating away at your throat!!
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It won't work to make her quit because she has to find her own motivation.
When my parents found out I smoked, I "quit" for a week b/c I was scared to get caught, then just got much better at hiding it and kept at it. (I quit eventually b/c I found my own *intrinsic* motivation to do so)
Usually once she gets a health scare or if she finds it's socially unattractive then she'll stop. Smoking for a few years isn't THAT bad, it can cause minor health complications (and if she's VERY unlucky, lung cancer).
I suggest approaching her, and tell her you'd like her to stop, but don't try to convince her because it won't work because she'll only stop once the problem goes away (99% of the time someone will start smoking not b/c it's cool but b/c there's a problem in their life that's causing them stress/etc.)
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I didn't tell my family that my brother was smoking for years, he nearly ruined his life because of it. Not sure what I'd do if I was in those shoes again but I would say that telling your parents is not as bad an idea as you think or some posters might be letting on.
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I can always tell if someone smokes just by approaching them. The smell really gets into their clothing. It's so discusting. After a night out your clothes always smell like they've been hanging above a fire. Although in this case I guesse your house already smells that way since your father is a chain smoker.
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First you should confront her alone. Then if you fail at convincing her to quit, you should talk to your parents. She will feel betrayed, but she might as well thank you for saving a few years of her life in the future. And even if she doesn't, you know you did the right thing. Even if she doesn't speak to you for the rest of her life (highly unlikely), you can rejoyce at the fact that you did all you could to save someone you love. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes if you should watch her die with a lung cancer in the future just because you were too "good" of a brother to let her do whatever she likes.
Personally, I've made a few stupid decisions in the past and my brother was there for me to convince me to do otherwise. If back then he would tell my parents I'd hate him for a month or two, but in the long run I'd be thankful just as I am now, thanks to where it got me.
That's what older brothers are there for. You are one, so act like one and be there for her, even if it means doing something she wouldn't agree with. That's just my opinion obviously.
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On March 29 2011 05:26 Stratoss wrote:
First you should confront her alone. Then if you fail at convincing her to quit, you should talk to your parents. She will feel betrayed, but she might as well thank you for saving a few years of her life in the future. And even if she doesn't, you know you did the right thing. Even if she doesn't speak to you for the rest of her life (highly unlikely), you can rejoyce at the fact that you did all you could to save someone you love. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes if you should watch her die with a lung cancer in the future just because you were too "good" of a brother to let her do whatever she likes.
Personally, I've made a few stupid decisions in the past and my brother was there for me to convince me to do otherwise. If back then he would tell my parents I'd hate him for a month or two, but in the long run I'd be thankful just as I am now, thanks to where it got me.
That's what older brothers are there for. You are one, so act like one and be there for her, even if it means doing something she wouldn't agree with. That's just my opinion obviously.
You have a very good opinion and I completely agree. I hope the OP posts what he ultimately decided to do.
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She's 16 years old. I can't say the same for her, but I know for myself, I definitely wasn't an adult at that age.
Anyway, do try to intervene in some way. Bringing it up with your parents...depends on how your parents would react. If they would yell and scream at her instead of genuinely trying to help, then doing so will likely make things worse. If they'd be willing to be mature about it, then definitely talk to them, but let your sister know that you're going to.
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I think there's probably enough good advice here for you to know what to do, I just wanna know what a mudroom is, I have not ever heard of that before.
Edit: Nevermind, google is my friend.
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You could always bring up the fact that you and your brother do have asthma. Surprised she smokes considering what second-hand did to you and your brother. Nothing like seeing someone you love being hurt by it to convince you not to do it. I don't smoke. Why? My dad did, and, well, he's not around anymore to tell me how much he regretted it. Don't let her hurt herself.
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Definitely don't tell your parents that would be a huge dick move. If you're really concerned about it talk to her. Although remember just because your dad has had horrible problems with smoking doesn't necessarily mean she will, there is a big difference between being a pack a day smoker for your whole life and doing it in moderation/once in a while. It would be a good idea to find out how much your sister smokes maybe?
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Is your sister hot? It might explain why she's smoking.
Okay, I had to get that out of my system.
In any case, it depends on how well you can manage drama as a family unit. On one hand, smoking is a money-sink-vice that may kill you and appears to have a growing stigma following it. Beyond the health effects, non-smokers will likely deem her lacking character trait that may cost a job or maybe a friend. A friend told me that he quit smoking because all his food tasted like crap after a while. Overall, smoking has its couple upsides, but the long term really tends to be both expensive and frustrating.
On the other, it is a choice, regardless of how much you are told that smoking is the product of big corporate brain-washing. Smoking, in a weird way, functions like a lesser form of self-immolation, which may be perceived as noble by certain circles. The act itself is an active step towards removing oneself from one category of people and into another one that your sister may simply want to step towards. I say this because even if you throw the book of facts at her, it will likely not sway her opinion because smoking represents that very personal departure.
I believe that the greatest show of loyalty to a family unit is to see past what is immediately uncomfortable and try to change things for the better. It's one of those things that seems like a good idea at first, but ends up sucking after quality of life becomes the primary focus. I'd do what I can to stop her from smoking, but don't over-extend. I'd have a talk or two, but I suspect that smoking will become self-evident to your parents from the smell or finding a pack somewhere. I don't know how 'dire' it is to notify given those properties.
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If she already understands all the risks then all you can do is kindly say what you think and then leave it. Like Sinborn says above, smoking may be being used as a step from one group to another, or as a representation of some personal belief.
It's also important not to assume the worst of what she is doing. Not everyone gets addicted and not everyone smokes a pack a week or more (I have smoked for over a year now but am not addicted, I regularly take weeks off with no cravings or withdrawal symptoms). Telling her smoking will kill her etc when she is smoking a cigarette a week will only make her angry and less likely to listen.
To summarise, be as understanding as humanly possible while letting her know what you think. No good can come from lecturing her on the facts or telling her it's a disgusting habit. Avoid inadvertent guilt trips too.
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On March 29 2011 07:00 funnybananaman wrote:
Definitely don't tell your parents that would be a huge dick move.
Yeah it would be such a dick move to try to intervene before she develops a dangerous, life threatening habit. Why don't you just think about whats best for her? Thats really what this is about right?
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On March 29 2011 11:02 etheovermind wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 07:00 funnybananaman wrote:
Definitely don't tell your parents that would be a huge dick move. Yeah it would be such a dick move to try to intervene before she develops a dangerous, life threatening habit. Why don't you just think about whats best for her? Thats really what this is about right?
It's only what's best for her if she shares your values. Surviving for as long as possible isn't on the top of everyone's list. Thinking like that is exactly what you shouldn't do if you want her to listen.
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Just don't buy her any lighter or packs if she asks which I don't think you will. Confront her and just tell her if she's going to smoke underage she should do a much better job of hiding it if she doesn't want your parents finding out. There is nothing else you can do besides that. Telling her not to smoke isn't gonna do much good. Telling your parents is just gonna make her hate you.
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Every time she grabs a smoke, throw a banana at her. Keep doing this for a few weeks, and eventually, she will not smoke for the fear of being hit by a banana.
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Well, ever since my older sister came home from college, all she's ever done was smoke in my room a few nights per week. And it's getting kinda annoying to hear her lighter click and her blow on her bong while I'm trying to sleep.
However, she's 19 and I'm 17. I know that she's an adult and she can do whatever the fuck she wants, but seriously. I've contemplated on telling my parents about the situation but I couldn't stand to see how pissed off they would be at her for not telling them and at me for waiting to tell them about it.
Trust me, my mom smokes cigarettes and I've tried all that I ever could do to get her to quit, but now that my sister's into vaping and getting high on weed, it's gotten a little bothersome to even see this when I'm supposed to be asleep.
Any ideas?
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Hey jayna,
If you click My Blog in the upper left corner of the page, you will see a prominent 'new blog' link where you can write about this. It's a little confusing to bump this thread, even though the topic is related.
If you want to discourage her from doing that, all you can do is think about what motivates her and manipulate things that way If you likes you, you can be cold and unfriendly to her and tell her that's why. If there's no particularly close relationship, you can just tell her its gross and stinks, and then give up because probably she's smoking to relieve stress / fit in with her peers, and that's a pretty big motivation to be up against.
If the only problem is she does it in your room, just kick her out. Also it's unlikely your parents don't have any idea, unless they have lost their sense of smell.
I think people get into long drawn out grievances when they have a problem with other people's behaviour, and sometimes the healthiest thing to do is let it go until you can move yourself out of a bad situation. You sometimes have to accept your opinion doesn't always motivate another person.
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Hi, don't mind me, here's my quick fix:
Just simply tell her the truth:
human beings develop through 16 to 26 + .. so if she smokes during then .. she might be deformed ("compared" to a healthier version of herself).
Now I do realize that seems harsh.. but go look it up (make HER look it up with you).. it is not in the slightest.
She could have hips differ to "her genetic perfection", leg width/lengh disproportionate to torso etc etc than it would be without nicotine consumption during those years. Of course her s xual apparatus can also be deteriorated by this .. but thats not as poignant for her as her looks should be (at that age).
(ps  then again it is like the russian roulette, if she was going to be "deformed" (as in not the perfect she wants!) maybe smocking would change her and make her look sexy and hip .. point is nobody knows).
(also totally unrelated, sorry to mention, but i hate your id choice, dear op.. hax bad juju)
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For those who can't tell, this thread was made in March 2011.
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On December 26 2015 17:43 jayna_kuklin wrote:
Well, ever since my older sister came home from college, all she's ever done was smoke in my room a few nights per week. And it's getting kinda annoying to hear her lighter click and her blow on her bong while I'm trying to sleep.
However, she's 19 and I'm 17. I know that she's an adult and she can do whatever the fuck she wants, but seriously. I've contemplated on telling my parents about the situation but I couldn't stand to see how pissed off they would be at her for not telling them and at me for waiting to tell them about it.
Trust me, my mom smokes cigarettes and I've tried all that I ever could do to get her to quit, but now that my sister's into vaping and getting high on weed, it's gotten a little bothersome to even see this when I'm supposed to be asleep.
Any ideas?
i would like to see a discussion in a seperate blog too. i think many user on teamliquid would love to share their thoughts
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On December 27 2015 06:50 Djzapz wrote:
For those who can't tell, this thread was made in March 2011.
Funny how you seem to disavow any further use of this thread, sort of negating the very purpose of threads.
:/
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On December 27 2015 10:10 fluidrone wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2015 06:50 Djzapz wrote:
For those who can't tell, this thread was made in March 2011. Funny how you seem to disavow any further use of this thread, sort of negating the very purpose of threads. :/
That's absurd and you know it, and you're being disingenuous. This is a thread that was made for a very specific purpose, this guy and his sister, over 4 years ago. A discussion took place, no doubt some of it was tangential which is fine, then it died and it was brought back largely by mistake by someone who stumbled on TL on google and made an account for something.
A thread with no posts for 4 years is no longer relevant, and if you want to discuss the same topic you're fully in your right to make a new thread without dredging up a story from half a decade ago, which undoubtedly people will click, not notice the date it was posted on and answer OP.
So no, "disavowing" the use of necroed threads does not negate the "very purpose of threads" (what the hell). Threads aren't necessarily timeless. They hold a specific conversation, then they die. In some cases they can be brought back. In others, like this one, they're better left to the archives IMO. But none of this has nothing to do with threads. Threads can be short lived. They can have 0 posts on them. They can last a few weeks, or years.
A good way to know if a thread can be reused should be to look at its title. If it's general, then fine. If it's specific to a situation involving real people, you should make your own. It's basic forum etiquette. Very basic forum etiquette. The bump was very obviously an honest mistake though which is why Chef tried to helped explain how the forum works. I think if anyone is interested in discussing this topic or a specific situation which is similar, they should make a new thread instead of building on an old story.
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Much wow.. grazed a nerve did I?
"That's absurd and you know it, and you're being disingenuous. "
Much wow again.. in need of a hug?
Threads are bottled messages sent across an ocean of disbelief and cold shoulders.
The necroing does not apply at all if the poster is unaware of the fact that this thread has not been posted in for "x" time, no?
Necroing means you did it with purpose knowingly, no?
My postting? Well.. I thought about the original post (and its subsequent adendum) and I felt kinship with the issue.. evidently not with the poster.
My!!!!!
My!!!!! Should I buy a vowel?
Am I so much out of tune with what a forum is that I am useless?
To answer that .. read my post.. .. its content is not reflected anywhere in the thread (not to mention that this is a grave issue (kids growing up smoking)) .. its content is potent and timeless.
So.. "absurd".. that would be your opinion. I feel that smokers have it hard and I wish to help.. do you not think this avenue (someone "necroing" (your word, not mine) this thread) is a bad one?
Nevermind, you are right.. there was no point, no aim, no goal from my part. I was just wasting our time.
"A thread with no posts for 4 years is no longer relevant".. enough said  lets agree to disagree and have a happy new year <3
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hey jayna
the gestapo also wanted you to rat our your neighbors. i bet they'd also encourage you to bump five year old threads if they could.
George Washington wouldn't pull any of that bullshit.
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I guess cigarettes must be cheaper where you live because sure as hell can't sustain smoking as a teenage here in NYC.
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EPT
