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I feel that Blizzard created a frustrating game and this is my review of the game and the problems associated with it.
First off, let me say that there is a big distinction between the two words Fun and Frustrating. To get a better understanding of where I am coming from then ask yourself these questions. Do you get angry when you lose? Have you ever cursed when losing a game? Have you ever raged quit? Do you fear playing ladder because it might screw up your record? If yes to anyone of these, then ask yourself one more question. Did SC1 ever make you feel this way?
I for one will say I have answered yes to more then one of the questions posted above. SC1 is a fun game, but SC2 leaves a bad aftertaste in your mouth that wreaks of frustration. The reason behind this frustrating feeling is not due to the game. SC2, the game itself, is fun. However, it is the design and structure of battle.net that is creating the frustration. All players, which includes the casual and competitive player, is forced to play the game as if their life depended on it because everyone is dumped into ladder matches with a requirement to win in order to achieve decals and portraits. Blizzard has essentially created a 24/7 tournament by dumping everyone into a ladder system. This level of competitive play leaves a frustrating feeling to the player when they leave the game and the potential backlash will be players never returning to the game at a future date. It happened with WC3 and it will happen again with SC2.
My solution to this is simply to reward the player for playing the game. Both wins and losses should be counted toward rewards, along with custom games.
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Let me just say this, it's actually rewarding to win a Sc2 game or be good at it.
And I think you're wrong. Reward player for winning and losing? Yeah... damn a reward for a loss really feels good x.x
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you can play custom games if you want to?
I don't understand really
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If you play a game competitively you will often be frustrated after a lose, no matter what game you play, so sc2 is no exception here.
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i want smurfs back...kinda agree on ur points but actually it just stupid to care about ladder and stuff
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Basically, you want something for nothing. Do you really think that your game experience will change simply because they give you free decals and portraits? They are fun EXTRAS, and are there for you to have something to do on the side - not to be the main focus. If you don't like the game for the game, go play something else.
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Do you also hate playing FPS that show your deaths?
Cause from the looks of it you just hate losing.
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i don't think it's fun to grind anything for decals and portraits. they should just be given by default imo
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On October 05 2010 19:40 SuperBigFoot wrote: It happened with WC3 and it will happen again with SC2.
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It happened with War3 and war3 became the most popular internet cafe game in South east asia in the form of DOTA.. You can go play custom games, you just have that kind of personality.
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Matchmaking system is not being seen for what it is, it is suppose to make the game more FUN for you. IdrA or TLO playing against some guy who bought SC2 last night dosent make anyone have fun, the pros waste their time and the newbie gets frustrated that he lost so easily.
The problem is that the community takes ladder, rank and points way too seriously, suddenly you have a official ladder of who is "good" and who isent.
People who spend hours upon hours of playing any game will rage alot more than some casual who bought SC2 becuase he saw a commercial on TV. That is why you get such heated debates on TL here, people are really passionate about the game, sometimes to unhealthy levels.
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Yeah, I admit, it can be frustrating to lose. But it's not the game itself, it's you.
I admit also, that being a silver/gold player, I'm playing more single player/challenges/custom maps/tower defences stuff than the 1v1 itself. I'm just that easily frustrating person. I accept it. I like winning, but I tought myself to deal with losing, too. I just don't play against people for the rest of the day That doesn't mean I don't play starcraft more, I just switch to another kind of fun with it
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On October 05 2010 19:40 SuperBigFoot wrote:
My solution to this is simply to reward the player for playing the game. Both wins and losses should be counted toward rewards, along with custom games.
You can´t make this available for customs or everyone would have it in one day because of abuse? Also you can´t make it it available for losses because of the same thing.
Just see them as a gift you get for your normal play. Noone is a better player or watever with an avatar and the decals aren´t even seen most of the time.
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I don't totally follow this, I enjoy the process of garnering success at the game.
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On October 05 2010 19:40 SuperBigFoot wrote:
Do you get angry when you lose? Have you ever cursed when losing a game? Have you ever raged quit? Do you fear playing ladder because it might screw up your record? If yes to anyone of these, then ask yourself one more question. Did SC1 ever make you feel this way?
Not really, yes, no, a little, no (because I played mainly custom games). How you take a loss is heavily dependent on your own attitude to the game. You aren't supposed to win every single game on the ladder. I'm only worried because every loss will slow down promotion up the ladder, but I trust the matchmaker to place me against appropriate opponents. In fact, I'd rather be facing tougher opponents, even if it means getting curbstomped - you simply learn and grow faster playing people better than you than people at the same level or lower.
All players, which includes the casual and competitive player, is forced to play the game as if their life depended on it because everyone is dumped into ladder matches with a requirement to win in order to achieve decals and portraits. Blizzard has essentially created a 24/7 tournament by dumping everyone into a ladder system.
What other ways would you suggest decals and achievements be unlocked? And these rewards aren't obtained by being good at the game - they are attained by playing a lot. You could be in Bronze league but still have a 500 win icon, and with relative ease because the matchmaker aims to give you a 50% win:loss ratio. You can simply choose to forgo the achievements and decals and play custom games only. A reward should only come after a trial - and if one chooses to go for the reward, he should step up to the challenge.
My solution to this is simply to reward the player for playing the game. Both wins and losses should be counted toward rewards, along with custom games.
I get long-term rewards every win and loss - deeper knowledge of potential strategies I will face or I can use, the refinement of my game and improvement of my skill, if only just a little bit. How are you going to reward a loss? If the matchmaker works as intended, a "1000 games played" icon would simply be the "500 games won" icon.
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How was BW any different? It still had a ladder. And personally, grinding for anything isn't fun. That's what makes WoW the piece of shit that it is. As mahnini says, portraits should be available anyway - the random reasons you get them make me respect people with them less, not more.
I find BW way more frustrating. It's harder, it requires way more apm to play effectively and it's a lot more competitive at all levels. Sc2 is very relaxing in comparision.
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Any game that is competitive by nature will be at least somewhat frustrating when you lose. I don't know about custom games being counted towards rewards but maybe there could be some type of reward for number of ladder games played. This way, even if you lose, you're still making some kind of progress I guess.
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On October 05 2010 19:40 SuperBigFoot wrote:
My solution to this is simply to reward the player for playing the game. Both wins and losses should be counted toward rewards, along with custom games.
What "rewards" are you talking about? This isent WoW, which butchered their own Arena becuase they only allowed the top 10% of the player base to get the best weapons and gear, this made the "noobs" leave and stop playing and the pyramid crumbled upon itself.
The only thing you can get are pointless little avatar pictures, and even Bronze players can get these as long as they win X amount of games.
If "Ladder" was perhaps named as "Practice Season" people might take it less seriously but it heavily doubt that
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I agree with only one thing in the OP: the ladder should be optional. People who don't want to compete, shouldn't be forced to. Yes, I know "you can just ignore your ranking", but I don't think the game should force you to ignore parts of it, for you to have a good time (speaking of players who don't want the added element of competition).
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Nothing more fun than losing a game, figuring out what you did wrong, and winning because you fixed it. The matchmaking system is great because every game is challenging, rather than just stomping newbs. The growth rate of my skill is much higher in SC2 than it was in BW because of that.
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For me SC BW was much more frustrating, i would rage so hard when i would lose a game that i thought i had won (especially on ic-cup), bw was not a game that would forgive mistakes and it was very intense, Sc2 is a very fun game to play and the course of the game is pretty obvious so you don't get surprised by you opponents move, its only frustrating when you get cheesed,,,
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No offence, but in my opinion you sound like:
1) a bad loser
2) you are thinking like a casual gamer
3) a socialist
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I think the matchmaking system being so good also contributes. You get to play more close games which could've gone either way, making it much more frustrating when you lose because you think you should have won it.
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Thats more of an attitude you have as a player rather than a "frustrating design" from Blizzard's side.
I think you might wanna try to change mentality instead (I am not bashing here). There was a great read here on TL something along the lines of "how to have more fun/rage less playing SC2" which had some good "mental checklist" tips.
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im a bit confused on this. the OP doesnt really seem to have substance it just seems you are whining about not getting decals or portraits. these things mean absolutely nothing anyways except u get to look at it if u want to. if you really want ur icon that bad get a cut out of it and tape it onto ur screen when in the bnet menu lol but seriously come on man you just gotta let things go and just enjoy the game for what it is, the game is only frustrating to u because u r making it frustrating. just have fun do whacky stuff in games and have fun
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On October 05 2010 19:40 SuperBigFoot wrote:
My solution to this is simply to reward the player for playing the game. Both wins and losses should be counted toward rewards, along with custom games.
So you are the reason behind achievements! 
"Oh look mom, I got an achievement for loosing 5 games in a row - I ROCK!"
No If you loose, you need to step up your game, it shouldn't be fun to loose. Imo!
On October 05 2010 20:17 limonovich wrote:
No offence, but in my opinion you sound like:
1) a bad loser
2) you are thinking like a casual gamer
3) a socialist
I laughed hard at point 3..
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Man, not trying to offend you, but i think the game youre looking for is called world of warcraft.
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If you don't lose at all, you don't learn. If you don't win at all, you don't learn. You need both. The new ladder system gives you both in equal shares, which is great for your learning.
If you start losing a lot, it will gradually match you with weaker players, so that you can again start improving. There's no shame in moving down the rankings, it's all good for you. If you can't keep up with your current rankings, it will be worse for your learning to stay there. That's similar to bank management in poker. You gotta be disciplined and move down the stakes when you lose too much at your current level. And that's fine. It's not final or anything.
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If losing a game is not disappointing, then winning the game is not rewarding.
No matter how "un-frustrating" Blizzard could ever make the game, nobody is going to click "Find Match" thinking "I sure hope I lose." That's not to say you can't enjoy a loss (it's always good to find ways to improve), but no one specifically sets out with losing as their goal. You want to win; it's just human nature. Losing is failing to achieve that goal, and the human mind naturally responds negatively to failure. We're wired to enjoy success and be disappointed -- and frustrated -- by failure.
I call into question the validity of the claim that losing a game of BW was not frustrating. Granted, there is the matter of degree, but I can certainly remember several very very frustrating losses in my Brood War days.
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I guess the problem for most players that have issues with ladder frustration/rage etc. is that they think they are better than others but because of some random (in their oppinion) unfair fact they lose.
You need to be humble to enjoy starcraft!
Look hat players like jaedong or flash They don't say things like: "hey i'm flash, it was totally clear i won tournament X because i have imba gosu skills"... they almost ever act surprisingly humble.
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SC1 was different? Hell man it was way more frustrating lol.
Iccup was hell for a new player.
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just play custom games or don't play online at all.
You can't handle a simple game than stop playing it.
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Call of duty is more frustrating imo so many knifers etc but u always get happy when you win...
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If just playing is rewarded why bother winning anyway? Ofcourse winning should be rewarded... feels good.
ps. Just finish this game and you'll never rage at another game again
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On October 05 2010 20:34 debeuker wrote:If just playing is rewarded why bother winning anyway? Ofcourse winning should be rewarded... feels good. ps. Just finish this game and you'll never rage at another game again
I couldent even get past the second panel T.T
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I like sc2 much better. When you are noob you don't play pros like you did on Iccup because they all started at D level. Macro is much less frustrating and doesnt required me to be quick with keyboard which I am not and hate improving at. Games are more strategical and decision making is has more value than before. Ladder ends up with you being on 50-50 ratio unless:
1) you are very good and have more that 50%
2) you play some silly all-in all the time and when it stops working and you decide to switch you hit a losing streak.
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I actually think his point is valid, but maybe a bit badly worded. Teamliquid is filled with competitive players so I don't think anyone is bothered by the problems that he is describing, including me. However, I can imagine that for people that are a bit more casual being forced to compete is not always a good thing.
His idea to get rewards like decals and avatars even when you lose the game is actually a pretty good one. Non-casual players like most of us here don't care about these rewards anyway. Of course there'd need to be some sort of check so people don't just start a game and quit, but I'd say it's doable.
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i am frustrated but bottum line is that i am always frustrated when it came to brood war and sc 2 but deep down i love the games and i think and hope that sc 2 is only going to get better with more attention being drawn to it and when an expansion comes out things will hopefully get even better!
The thing that really ruffles my feathers though is this whole sc2 ladder system and battle net 2.0 and no lan support for tourneys, that is the stuff that really gets my panties in a bunch!
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I haven't played SC1 so I can't tell if it's been the same there, but what completely frustrates me is the effectiveness of cheese, especially when you're Zerg (like me) and play against Terran or Protoss. Literally every second or at least third game you play against an opponent who does his personal little random cheese and you have no or close to no possibilities to scout or predict it.
I was a WC3 player and something like that basically wasn't possible there if you scouted anything at all. When your opponent was T2 and didn't have any T2 buildings around his base or something a-typical, you could basically expect a certain range of strats and prepare to counter it. In SC2, especially with Terran, a certain set of buildings can mean a ton of different strats, each one of them having only one or two very specific counters to it which don't overlap. For example: you scout a barracks with nothing, a factory with techlab and an airport that's building (let's just say your Terran opponent has been more than lazy about preventing your overlord to get into his base). This can mean: Fast cloak banshees, Thordrop, or Helliondrop. It can even mean that your opponent simply made a mistake and is doing something else entirely, like... 2 more rax in the back and he's doing m&m&m.
And all of those strats have different counters to them, basically making your decisionmaking a giant gamble.
That is incredibly frustrating to me, because I have no margin where I can improve. I watch the replay and I'm like: erm ok wtf could I have done different with the information available? Pretty much nothing.
Against toss it's not that bad, but they can hide buildings all over the map, plus it's not that expensive for them to fake strats too (double robo fake @ idra vs losira for example), since when they fake some ground army composition and in fact go fast void rays or fast DTs or whatever, their units will still arrive in a timing window when we don't really have anything to defend it - or when we're barely able to defend it and lose the game a few minues after that because of the losses endured.
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On October 05 2010 20:46 Glacius0 wrote:
I actually think his point is valid, but maybe a bit badly worded. Teamliquid is filled with competitive players so I don't think anyone is bothered by the problems that he is describing, including me. However, I can imagine that for people that are a bit more casual being forced to compete is not always a good thing.
His idea to get rewards like decals and avatars even when you lose the game is actually a pretty good one. Non-casual players like most of us here don't care about these rewards anyway. Of course there'd need to be some sort of check so people don't just start a game and quit, but I'd say it's doable.
But it shouldn't matter since the matchmaking system will give you more or less 50% win, effectively you'd just halve the requirements.
On October 05 2010 20:36 Tabbris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 20:34 debeuker wrote:If just playing is rewarded why bother winning anyway? Ofcourse winning should be rewarded... feels good. ps. Just finish this game and you'll never rage at another game again I couldent even get past the second panel T.T
I finished it with 2k deaths or something, totally zen now
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You are suppose to lose roughly 50% of the games you play, if you do, then MM is working like a charm
If you want a game where you win constantly and always get rewarded then its time to sub back to WoW, which in PvE constantly rewards people whom many are pretty lousy players and still have trouble moving out of fires and poisons and other hazards.
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Once you realise that the ladder and everything else doesnt actually matter jack shit towards anything then you will be able to enjoy the game, not get pissed that you lost yet again and is so much further away from that shiny portrait/#1 spot in you group(or weekly 200 ranking) that you oh so much want. In other words some perspective should do wonders. Otherwise if you're really that into sc2 then you basically just gotta deal with it, sc2 isnt unique in this way. It's simply life.
In other words, your bnet epeen doesnt reflect your actual life.
I can agree somewhat on how decals and portraits should be available from the beginning, then again if they were you would simply be left with pure achievements(the ones that you get for winning five games in a row, destroying X amount of stuff in a game/period of time etc) and the ladder would be left with nothing else but a purely competitive aspect and it wouldnt get better for people in the same situation as op.
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Yeah I don't like losing and yes I get frustrated when losing but I try and learn from that loss and then when I win a good game, no game beats that feeling.
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Ehhh what? Just don't try that hard in the laddergames. It's your fault if you take it so seriously.
I don't understand the purpose of this thread.
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The answer is:
stop being such a pussy and just try your best. Who cares if you lose.
and really, who cares if you win (except for yourself). Just enjoy it for what it is and have fun winning or losing.
Everyone loses. I don't see anyone in the top 200 with a perfect record.
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i dont get why this should be different with bw. i like playing sc2 for the reason i get angry, happy, pumped up and stuff like this.
nothing worse than playing an mmo where you are a fucking hero 100% of the time and get rewarded for doing retarded shit for no reason.
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Well thats another thread, where the OP makes a statement and trys to make it look like everyone must be the same opinion. Those things make YOU feel frustrated.
Well I generally agree with one thing. To force someone in this ladder system might be not the best idea for casual players.
There is one suggestion I'd like to see implemented and that is 1on1 testmatch quick search. Bnet2.0 will give u an opponent equal to your ladderranking, but there wont be any points in the end for either one. I'd really love to see that
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Rewards for losing? Jesus Christ. Mr. Rogers fucked up an entire generation.
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If people could make their rank private I think everyone would be happier. You could leave it open if you didn't care, or close if off if having the pressure of a public rank wrecks havoc with your inner desire to always win. Having the system there but not visible would also allow matchmaking to still work, and would allow you to see a sense of progression over time, but without the impending feeling of slipping.
Perhaps you could even make the stats invisible to yourself to people who don't like the pressure of falling out of Diamond because they want to try another race. It's irrational and stupid to feel pressure over such an arbitrary ranking, but people put effort in and don't like seeing these things destroyed, it's much easier just not to have it visible in the first place.
Personally I haven't played on the ladder in a while because when I get home from work I don't feel like stressing out over a video game, and find that constantly having a rank hanging over my head just makes things stressful. I can't explain why, I know it's stupid, I have no problem with losing, I have a problem with seeing that stupid losses number keep going up, just let me lose and move on, I don't need this record blaring in my face 
I can empathize with both sides, and as such I'd say make it possible for players to choose, give them the choice to play either way makes them happier.
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hm i don't fully agree with you, i rage quit and curse a lot in bw to , but the bnet system is indeed impersonel and crapy in comparison with iccup bw system, witch is a lot more fun imo
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Get drunk before playing.
Last time i had terrible fun with going all 6 Pools, Blingbusts, 5 RR against everything and anything... Then get really drunk and just switch to a race you never actually played and go for all these ¦°¦@§§ things like fast voidrays, cloaked banshee's, reapers...
And i didn't even do that bad :p.... And next day someone told me we played about 10 custom games against each other and i remembered about 2 of them...
Seriously, just play for fun, if the ladder does not allow you that for some reason, find some friends and play customs...
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So when is OP going back to CoD MW2 and Halo.
SC2 is fun mate, I honestly think you are here just to stir up some trouble.
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If you're a Bronze player, you'll play in Bronze league against other Bronze players. You win % should be the same as a pro-gamer.
What's wrong?
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tbh i mostly get upset and cursing on my self with " Idiot you really should have seen that one comming"
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SC1 made me feel worse when I lost.
I enjoy playing SC2 more than the original.
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i've never been so frustrated with a game as I have been with SC2. Each loss feels undeserving and each win seems like it takes too much effort (vs z/t). Whenever I get too upset though I tend to go play a custom game or watch a stream or sign off.
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this is true because its less a game and more a sport
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Who cares about online rewards? The most rewarding thing about SC2 is win itself, and progression.
Thing about fun. I think 1v1 is about temptation and challenge. You can't see any fun there because you focus on gameply entirely, and can't see some funny animations etc. 3v3 and 4v4 is pure fun because it's weird and gimmicky.
I only feel anger and frustration when I loose because of stupid mistakes I make. The thing about most people is that they blame only imbalance, not themselves. So yeah, I wanted to rage quit when another bbust raped me in zvz on BS but I typed "gg" because, as day9 said (and his mother ;D), those are only chemicals, just wait for them to stop controlling you
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I'm not going to read the OP because he's suggesting that SC2 isn't fun. I completely disagree.
I find SC2 to be hilariously fun, sometimes I bust out laughing when I play people, it's a great game.
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On October 05 2010 19:40 SuperBigFoot wrote:Do you get angry when you lose? Have you ever cursed when losing a game? Have you ever raged quit? Do you fear playing ladder because it might screw up your record? If yes to anyone of these, then ask yourself one more question. Did SC1 ever make you feel this way?
Feel angry about losing? Of course.
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On October 05 2010 19:57 Raevin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 19:40 SuperBigFoot wrote:
My solution to this is simply to reward the player for playing the game. Both wins and losses should be counted toward rewards, along with custom games. What "rewards" are you talking about? This isent WoW, which butchered their own Arena becuase they only allowed the top 10% of the player base to get the best weapons and gear, this made the "noobs" leave and stop playing and the pyramid crumbled upon itself.
The pyramid didn't crumble. The majority of WoW players are simply too horrible at PvP to actually PvP. The casuals went back to battlegrounds where their lack of skill can get lost in a crowd. You can literally run around in circles for 10 minutes in an AV and get the same exact reward as the people actually working for a win. The people who cared about competitive PvP went to Arenas. The people who kinda suck at mechanics but aren't completely clueless complained until Blizz promised rated BGs.
Anyway, the OP is ridiculous. If you don't like laddering for portraits, don't ladder for portraits? How does simply having knowledge of a cosmetic reward for playing a shitton of games make the game frustrating for you?
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im not frustrated by losing, but sc2 certainyl frustrates me. You know, when you need a minute and the @sshole unpauses after 5 seconds, or playing those jerks who allin every game. + balance issues, no shared reps etc etc good old jazz
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If you would have played Broodwar recently, you would have to be pretty good to not get stomped each game. In sc2, you can just be bad and join all the other bronze players. That is a luxury not present in broodwar. So I totally don't get where you're coming from.
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Oh everyone thinking sc2 is frustrating is a spoiled brad. I'm a bw player for live, I probably will never switch. But the only thing apealing to sc2 is everything around the game: Auto match making with similar ranked oponents, even if you are really bad. Not having to search and click and be banned for minutes in a row before you can start another game.
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Having additional portraits or rewards for nonladder things would be nice IMO. While there are some, there aren't any for combat, cooperative, or custom achievements. How does Yamato Blaster not have the pirate battlecruiser guy portrait, for instance.
And a warp prism portrait!! That thing looks awesome. Where's the portrait for it? I'm a zerg player, but why aren't more protoss players complaining about this clear injustice!?
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In all honesty, the game and ladder system becomes what You make of it. The ladder is ONLY numbers, and if you only play for fun, and not in any way competitive, then those numbers should mean nothing to you.
Fine, being thrown right in to a pseudocompetitive environmnet might be frightening. But - only if you let it be. If you claim yourself being a player who is solely oriented in playing the game for fun, yet becomes agitated when you lose, you might just be more competitive than you originally though. Basically what you are doing is to put the blame of Your mistakes or your opponent's higher skill level on a system designed to keep track of your progress and results. A system that is also completely ignorable.
Well then, what to make of this? Either you're right, and the ladder system is something that doesn't fit you or the problem lies with yourself and your fears of other people possibly finding your profile and nerdloling to your losses.
Anyways, I somewhat get your frustration and can cope with what you are feeling, I too have felt reluctant to ladder. Not from the fear of losing though, but from the honesty a ladder match provides, the seriousness. But guess what? There is a costume game function in the game, which gives me a one warmup match before going for the more serious business.
Ok, so this got a bit long - but my point is, I find your post contradicting when you say that you play for fun, but yet you work against yourself, worrying about petty statistics.
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I find SC way more frustrating than SC2. I was T in SC and Z in SC2 so yeah, I should know what frustration is! I didn't even mind DT rushes as T, can't imagine how frustrated Artosis was with that game. The reason for the frustration was that I took SC seriously and SC2 is just some for fun game where I do random shit every game and have no idea why I won/lost every game.
The game's only as frustrating as you want it to be. I think you're in the minority, being frustrated at the existence of portraits and decals
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Oh I think I get it. The complaining people don't see the ladder as a tool of the auto match making. And they want to win more than they loose. That is not gonna happen folks. If everybody wins, you end up with WoW. For every winner there has to be a looser.
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There's plenty of portraits from campaign, as well as the guide achievements and the versus AI things.
But yeah, the more portraits the merrier.
[Antimonarchist]
Win 100 games as Zerg without making queens
Portrait Reward:
+ Show Spoiler +
[For Great Justice]
Win 100 games as Protoss starting a carrier before your first expansion
Portrait Reward:
+ Show Spoiler +
[Bring a Geiger Counter]
Win 100 games as Terran without making any marines, marauders, or tanks
Portrait Reward:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On October 05 2010 22:25 Navane wrote:
Oh I think I get it. The complaining people don't see the ladder as a tool of the auto match making. And they want to win more than they loose. That is not gonna happen folks. If everybody wins, you end up with WoW. For every winner there has to be a looser.
WoW isn't a comparable game.
It's like you're saying for every person who climbs Mount Everest, someone has to fall off it.
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I have had so many losses where i get frustrated and spout stuff to my to my opponent that i really shouldn't. But winning a 20 + minute macro game just feels so dam good. Game is great even if it really gets me angry at times.
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Great post kojinshugi.
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<i>WoW isn't a comparable game.</i>
Its not a comparable game, but it is the exact same system being used in Arenas as in SC2.
Which is why nobody almost plays arena anymore, the reward ratio is not there, so they go play PvE
The point is that SC2 does not have "rewards", fancy Avatars can be gotten even if you are stuck in Bronze league and win 1000 games.
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On October 05 2010 22:32 Raevin wrote:
<i>WoW isn't a comparable game.</i>
Its not a comparable game, but it is the exact same system being used in Arenas as in SC2.
Which is why nobody almost plays arena anymore, the reward ratio is not there, so they go play PvE
The point is that SC2 does not have "rewards", fancy Avatars can be gotten even if you are stuck in Bronze league and win 1000 games.
I figured you were talking about PvE.
Since when is Arena an "everyone wins" game? It's a far less casual-friendly game than SC2.
It seems like you're just randomly venting your frustration against WoW for some reason. It's pretty incoherent, anyway.
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If SC2 is frustrating than Brood War is nerve wracking. Pretty much all real time strategy games are difficult and can be scary to play, but that's what makes it the ultimate genre. Get good and I don't think anyone would deny your bragging rights. Are you man enough to handle it?
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I was refereing to WoW PvE indeed. That game is build upon an not frustrating, ever rewarding experience, so people will play it as long and much as possible. In games where each match has a winner and a looser, that just doesn't apply. So Blizzard came up with these portraits and other shitty rewards, so people will focus on that, instead of ranking, or win/loss ratio.
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i rage even at silly phone games so that part probably isn't fair to use.
but i'm not getting frustrated at all, I'm not playing because of decals and achievements and crap, only tards who does not appreciate a good competitive game does.
instead i see them more as treats, if i've had great success with my new build i'll get a treat in form of say a new avatar (like the hydra i got lately from winning 6x 4 gates with the speedling exand into fast double evo upgrades)
solution to your problem? stop seeing the rewards as a requirement to win. the ranking system is there to give you good and fair matches, they're not there to tell you how bad you are when you lose points. rewards are there to gift you when you play good and when you're bad you've got your replays right there to watch and learn from your mistakes.
also BW is far more frustrating than SC2 :s where one simple miss click can lose you a whole control group of hydras
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BW was a really frustrating game (really not fun)
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From what i understand OP just want to be rewarded for being incompetent in SC2. You must be 12 to not understand this will never work...
And about the questions OP asks. Yes it happens to rage quit or to be frustrated after game but this is not connected to SC2 it's because you are competitive and want to win.
As I see it AMM for SC2 is far better than AMM for WC3 was and i get matched really rare with someone that is too strong or too weak for me so in that regard you just can't complain.
Smurfing is one thing i can't stand because it's just a way for 14 year olds to brag at school how great are they and how they crush "n00bs".
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I will agree that laddering can be very frustrating, and the design attributes to that, but a lot of it is how you feel about it. If you ladder for the sole purpose of achievements and icons then you are most likely in copper league just having a good time. You will slowly move up leagues as you see yourself winning more (losing is a slow way to get achievments [except in 3v3 / 4v4]) and you will actually be getting better.
THAT is satisfying. The unsatisfying thing is when you start out pretty good at the game, get into a diamond league, and then try to get achievements. It's a pain to say the least. Every game I have to try to win, and when I do win it's either because I did something he wasn't expecting, or he was just a bad player. Only on a few occasions have I had a decent macro game that I have won. Before the patch I either got tanks/marine rushed or zealot rushed, both of which I had problems holding off (even when I knew it was coming from the get go). Yes I was angry, yes I blame balance, however, I am a god at holding off early terran/protoss rushes now since the patch. I am very proud of that fact, more proud then a shiny icon (unless that shiny icon was Infested Kerrigan...)
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On October 05 2010 19:40 SuperBigFoot wrote:
It happened with WC3 and it will happen again with SC2.
In WC3 you could make a new account in less than a minute so losing wasn't tied to you permanently.
I agree, there is more pressure to be successful in SC2 which makes it more stressful for most people. However, you can overcome this by adopting a different attitude. Take MorroW for example, he obviously doesn't mind losing a bunch if it means he can try out Zerg. I think the problem is that Blizzard wants the ladder to be a serious competitive arena with meaning and that means everyone in it is under pressure. In WC3 the pros didn't take the ladder seriously at all. I think the solution is to try and have a lighthearted attitude to the ladder and not take it too seriously. You are there to practice/get better not prove your worth as though it were a tournament.
Blizzard should make an "unranked match" system where people who shy away from the competition can play. The problem with this is how do you get matched with people of similar skill if your rating is not taken into account?
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I just get extremely frustrated when getting cheesed. Don't like that aspect of starcraft at all.
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SC:BW was way more frustrating. The first times on ICCUP, you join games like "D- python Noob" only to get smurfed and steamrolled by some c+ guy. The skill difference was so huge compared to SC2 and when you just started playing and it was quite impossible to find someone on your level.
This got better in SC2 with the matchmaking system taking care of it although losing can still be very frustrating.
One thing that helps is playing at casual hours. Seriously the amount of games I win is like 4 times bigger when playing sunday afternoon compared to Tuesday 2:30 am.
The other thing helping me is cheesing. It can be very rewarding being an asshole when you succeed.
If this fails, I usually come to TL to bitch about balance and this fu***** stupid game. I am always feeling better after this.
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On October 05 2010 20:09 arterian wrote:
Nothing more fun than losing a game, figuring out what you did wrong, and winning because you fixed it. The matchmaking system is great because every game is challenging, rather than just stomping newbs. The growth rate of my skill is much higher in SC2 than it was in BW because of that.
^^ Exactly
Sc1 made me even more nervous to play, with SC2 I never get nervous about laddering even if I loose. Granted, I do get pretty pissed off if I get beat by a far lesser player, but beyond that, loosing isn't a big deal. I think the stigma now is because the "pro" scene involves a lot more foreigners now and instead of thinking it's mostly Koreans people realize that a lot of people can be good at this new game. Maybe thats why people take it too seriously? I'll never be pro nor do I want to because I want a stable life so who cares if I loose, just keep telling your self its a GAME and they are made for fun, the competitive part is just a bonus for most people.
Also, I am guessing that a lot of people are scared of laddering because they care waaaay too much about a rank and you can't just make a new account if you'r record sucks. Just remember rank doesn't always show skill and who cares anyway. If you'r Bronze you're Bronze and if your record sucks it doesn't mean that Tiffany wont wanna go out with you... Everyone needs to stop thinking of ranks in SC2 as an e-pine.
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But doesn't being in the top 100 of your division make you feel good!??
Maybe Blizzard should reduce division size to 10. Everybody's top ten! =)
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buddy its the other way around sc1 was way more fustrating then sc2. mechanics were 10 times more harder so understanding stategy wasnt something noobs could do since they sucked in mechanics. Mechanics being fixed helps people like me who cant do 200 apm to beat people with beter mechanics through better stats. in terms of matchmaking ur making too much of a big dead outta something that has no impact in your life or it shouldnt. its just a game, and that win lose ratio is just a number on a computer screen. unless ur playing for money, how well u do in this game will never matter. just click the play button and forget about your record and how well ur gonna do. just try ur best and forget the rest.
too many people take video games too seriously, i think life is too short to worry about video games.
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oh my god, let's not talk about this because everytime i lose i say somethng offensive to the other player and then leave the game and if my opponent whispers me i just explode or sometimes i just mute him.. but anyways this feeling makes me play starcraft 2 less but anyyways i still love the game but cant play it for long hours due to anger lol......... oh my god u just made me remember my last loss
*takes mouse and throws it at this brother * (i end up getting my kicked o.o)
now u owe me a new keyboard and mouse.......
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Don't worry so much about decals and whatnot. You'll get them eventually.
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On October 05 2010 23:21 Perkins1752 wrote:
One thing that helps is playing at casual hours. Seriously the amount of games I win is like 4 times bigger when playing sunday afternoon compared to Tuesday 2:30 am.
hehe your right, i play slightly worse with a hangover.
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On October 05 2010 19:40 SuperBigFoot wrote:
I feel that Blizzard created a frustrating game and this is my review of the game and the problems associated with it.
First off, let me say that there is a big distinction between the two words Fun and Frustrating. To get a better understanding of where I am coming from then ask yourself these questions. Do you get angry when you lose? Have you ever cursed when losing a game? Have you ever raged quit? Do you fear playing ladder because it might screw up your record? If yes to anyone of these, then ask yourself one more question. Did SC1 ever make you feel this way?
I for one will say I have answered yes to more then one of the questions posted above. SC1 is a fun game, but SC2 leaves a bad aftertaste in your mouth that wreaks of frustration. The reason behind this frustrating feeling is not due to the game. SC2, the game itself, is fun. However, it is the design and structure of battle.net that is creating the frustration. All players, which includes the casual and competitive player, is forced to play the game as if their life depended on it because everyone is dumped into ladder matches with a requirement to win in order to achieve decals and portraits. Blizzard has essentially created a 24/7 tournament by dumping everyone into a ladder system. This level of competitive play leaves a frustrating feeling to the player when they leave the game and the potential backlash will be players never returning to the game at a future date. It happened with WC3 and it will happen again with SC2.
My solution to this is simply to reward the player for playing the game. Both wins and losses should be counted toward rewards, along with custom games.
Well, I don't care whatsoever about decals or portraits. And I think that if you want to earn something, losses shouldn't count towards them. You shouldn't get a badass portrait after you went 750-2250 or something.
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On October 05 2010 19:43 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:
Let me just say this, it's actually rewarding to win a Sc2 game or be good at it.
And I think you're wrong. Reward player for winning and losing? Yeah... damn a reward for a loss really feels good x.x
there might be some rewarding feeling, but it pales in comparison of coming from behind on iccup on bw against a korean.
sc2, you win, you are like yay, i get a couple of points.
in bw, you win and you stand up and do a fist pump while screaming SUCK ON THAT BITCH! lol
but yeah
bnet 0.2 sucks ass
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If you don't find it fun, quit playing it, it is really that simple.
Alot of us enjoy the game in it's current state, just don't take losses so seriously. Don't think your skill is how high W/L ratio you have, but if you get any better.
If you lose to a cheese, take note of what you did wrong and play accordingly, you get better. If you lose you aren't good enough and should appreciate the loss because that way you can get better.
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On October 05 2010 19:40 SuperBigFoot wrote:
Have you ever cursed when losing a game? Have you ever raged quit? Do you fear playing ladder because it might screw up your record? If yes to anyone of these, then ask yourself one more question. Did SC1 ever make you feel this way?
Um... yes? BW is infinitely more frustrating to play than SC2. That's one of the reasons I find SC2 so fun when I'm feeling lazy. It's just relaxing to play compared to BW.
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People are too obsessed with ladder rank/points. THEY DON'T MEAN SHIT, the only thing that means anything is if you get better!
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i can understand the frustration of WOW players because a lot of the excuses(like gear, luck, class, matchup, teammates) that make you feel better in WOW dont fit in SC2.
but because everybody knows that the rank in SC2 is almost completely irrelevant the frustration compared to other rts-games should be lower.
i myself coming from WOW enjoy the fact that almost every loss can be traced back directly to my actions(which i can later adjust acordingly).
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I suggest you let go of your desire for a cool portrait and stop playing ladder games. Just play custom games with your friends. It will be even more enjoyable when chat channels come out.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
cheese is the only thing that gets me riled up playing SC2. if i lose to a better player, fair enough he deserves it. however if people start 6pooling, cannon rushing ..etc i'll just start fuming.
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On October 05 2010 23:52 Garbels wrote:
i can understand the frustration of WOW players because a lot of the excuses(like gear, luck, class, matchup, teammates) that make you feel better in WOW dont fit in SC2.
but because everybody knows that the rank in SC2 is almost completely irrelevant the frustration compared to other rts-games should be lower.
i myself coming from WOW enjoy the fact that almost every loss can be traced back directly to my actions(which i can later adjust acordingly).
Lol, this made me laugh. I have never played WoW but in Diablo I had those kind of excuses when I was younger. I think thats why the IMBA posts are flooding these forums so much, so many new players from games like WoW or whatever don't yet realize that when they loose it is always something they did that brought the result upon themselves. Of course I am not saying SC2 is balanced yet but it's no where near as bad as some people make it seem.
As the game gets older, a lot of these types of players will vanish plus the game itself will be very balanced leading to a happier community.
On October 05 2010 23:44 Cofo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 19:40 SuperBigFoot wrote:
Have you ever cursed when losing a game? Have you ever raged quit? Do you fear playing ladder because it might screw up your record? If yes to anyone of these, then ask yourself one more question. Did SC1 ever make you feel this way?
Um... yes? BW is infinitely more frustrating to play than SC2. That's one of the reasons I find SC2 so fun when I'm feeling lazy. It's just relaxing to play compared to BW.
Exactly... Has anyone ever played on the iCCup server?  so damn frustrating! Every game felt like a tournament, not to mention there would be games with peiople claiming to be a certain rank when really they were B- with a new account or what ever. Thats why I like the fact that you can't have multiple accounts because that would ruin the ladder as everyone would be in places they didn't belong.
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When I was grinding away at BW last year I thought the game was a lot less frustrating than SC2. I would play against some smurf account and lose like 3 workers to their probe harass, have my expo pylon blocked and then just get rolled by corsair/reaver or something, but I wouldn't feel frustrated because I knew I had been beaten legitimately.
In SC2 though I get frustrated because the game is so new that I'll lose games to people with worse mechanics because I'm ignorant about a game mechanic or don't know how to handle a weird composition. Eventually I'll stop making really dumb mistakes but until then I'm going to rage every time I lose.
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It's the most popular game which confronts yourself to your own true skill.
You cannot hide your mediocrity in a mass of team mates.
You can't even hide from other players (with the unique account).
Your ranking is what you are.
It's unbearable pressure to some people.
As said before, most TL players know that the most important isn't the ranking, but self-improvement.
And more globally most people know that portraits and decals doesn't mean anything -_- apart from number of games played. (i dont even understand why this should be rewarded :/ )
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Hmm, I don't really like losing, like most people, and sometimes yes I curse (not the opponent, but in front of my computer in my room), especially against T comp marines + tanks, and sometimes the ZvZ MU, or even void rays :D. And yes, I ragequit a lot, actually I rage quit more often than say gg, it's part of the pleasure to rage quit when you're losing badly I find.
BUT no, I don't fear playing on the ladder, well, to be honest when I'm tired I don't play on the ladder to avoid fucking my rank, I would do a few more games if there was not the rating, but not a lot more. And no, I didn't play SC1, but I played HoN, and this symptom was there a lot too, so really, nothing new. Actually it's a lot worse in HoN since it is a team game, in sc2 1v1 you are the only responsible for your defeat (and many players don't accept this btw).
The remedy is simple : don't care about your stats. They are not that relevant to your level anyway, it just evaluates roughly your skill. Play to have fun.
And honestly, who cares about decals and portraits ? Eventually all the regular players will have them, and the ladder is built so your win/lose ratio is 50%, so really these rewards are not relevant for your frustration. Plan double the number of games and that's it. And the more games you do the more wins you get, so really, no reason to fear playing.
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Netherlands4514 Posts
can be very frustating indeed but then again, anything that has a winner and a loser at the end of it, can be frustating :D
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On October 05 2010 23:43 Snowfield wrote:
If you don't find it fun, quit playing it, it is really that simple.
Alot of us enjoy the game in it's current state, just don't take losses so seriously. Don't think your skill is how high W/L ratio you have, but if you get any better.
If you lose to a cheese, take note of what you did wrong and play accordingly, you get better. If you lose you aren't good enough and should appreciate the loss because that way you can get better.
I disagree.
You gain very little from losing to some all-in, because there are so many different ways to do so and in some match ups you cannot scout that well until it is too late. The maps allow even strategies like 18probes+4warpgate to work exceedingly well (Blistering Sands...) and you do not learn a thing from that. It is the same with a Terran bunkering up with his main+nat for 30min. You cannot kill him, you know you have won 20 minutes ago and the next game you are probably going to get 6pooled on Steppes of War.
Even if you defend all those all-ins, you know that time was not spent on improving your play.
I think better maps would improve everyone's ladder experience a lot, since straight-up strategies would actually become just as viable as every all-in you could think of, which, currently, is absolutely not the case.
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I don't play 1v1 anymore,it was frustrating to learn hard way that Your unit does not counter Y anymore...(also playing ZvT,4gate allins and Bling Tennis with Zerg) I do play team games though. When I loose I always get messages like "LOL LRN2PLAY LOLOLO YOU WERE OOM" then I with my team are like "damnit,some wow guys beat us" and we feel terribly bad (I feel actually the worst because I can't plain say they suck if they have only 5 units on 15 min mark and never left base,they're my friends after all)
Loosing in LoL is a lot better,You'll probably get owned because of skill of enemy team(although teams like Mordekaiser,Tryndamere,Ryze,Malzahar and Garen are pretty much noskill) in SC2 it's like... You lost because You couldn't anything. Something went totally wrong and there's no coming back.
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First off, let me say that there is a big distinction between the two words Fun and Frustrating. Oh really. To get a better understanding of where I am coming from then ask yourself these questions. Do you get angry when you lose? Yeah. Have you ever cursed when losing a game? From time to time. Have you ever raged quit? Now that you mention it... Do you fear playing ladder because it might screw up your record? Hey, yeah! If yes to anyone of these, then ask yourself one more question. Did SC1 ever make you feel this way? Why, yes it did! By George, I think this man is into something!
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What he is talking about is, that you can't play SC2 without any Pressure inside yourself. Of course Custom Games. But laddering wihtout Pressure is not Possible (in his definition).
He is right on some Points, worried playing Ladder at all, because of the fear to lose and maybe get downranked into lower Leagues? Or fuck up WinStats etc. That is all because everyone has just ONE Account. It is good, so you don't have to mess with smurf Accounts that much. But TBH... it would be much better to allow multiple "accounts" on one BattleNet account for SC2, just bind them to your highest hidden Rating in the System, so you play always vs. same Level of Skill. But poeple have the Option to begin a new Account if they want it. Pressure would become less actually just for having this Option!
Also 3v3 and 4v4 random is not playable anymore... every Game 1-3 People leave instant... and they do so for every TeamGame, just to get Achievements faster (Portraits etc.) that is stupid, and make some also fear to start TeamGames.
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I actually agree with some of those points. I dislike ladder because I am pitted against someone equal my skill so that I would only have a 50-50 win rate. I personally not so interest in climbing the ladder and play much more custom game.
I classify myself as a fairly casual player. I do enjoy making builds and perfecting my play, but only to a certain degree. I am a med student and don't have time to practice, and I know I will never have the mechanic of flash and Jaedong, Why should I keep laddering when I keep running into tougher and tougher opponents? As a result I stopped laddering at around 1100 pts and I still have a 60% win rate at that level.
Ladder system make it discourging for a vast majority of people because we will have 50-50 win rate, or we will lose 50% of our games. Only 1% of the players at best will win more than 50% on the ladder or win tournments.
Compare this with first person shooters (which I hail from), where everyone have their favoriate server and even those who are not as hard core can dominate a server
I do wish wins in custom game would count toward achievements and icon.
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I'm very frustrated after losing 200 ladder points in the last few days. All of a sudden i just suck. Almost went below 50% win rate. I lose, play more, and lose more. Frustrating that my rank falls below players i know are not active. They have a zillion bonus points, come back and 6 pool victory and keep climbing playing nearly 1/3 of the games i put in.
I know the ladder points and ranking really don't mean anything, but it's the only measure of skill since most of us can't ever play in a tournament. Also, i think losing when you are "slightly favored" loses you way too many points. When i've looked up my opponent afterward, they often have a better win percentage than me. i don't get it.
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Sadly this is the direction that gamers are taking these days, it's the WotLK curse all over again. People demanding to be rewarded for failing. How on earth they plan on enforcing that in a RTS is beyond me and I really hoped I wouldn't have to deal with them in SC2 (Never saw one in BW)
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My take on all this is that I, as a person, have changed more than the games have. I was a lot younger when I played BW and at that time in my life I was purely playing for fun and losing didn't bother me. I wasn't worried at all about being good. The enjoyment I got was from playing the game itself and not the end result of a match.
Today, now that I'm an "adult" and under immense pressure in my society to be "successful" I find that this feeling leaks into my gaming as well. I had a hard time initially laddering because of this ridiculous need to feel like I was being successful at playing SC2. For me to start enjoying the game like I used to I had to think back to why I enjoyed Warcraft II, Command and Conquer: Red Alert, and BW. Now I can ladder and just enjoy making building and moving units. I still work hard to improve my game (I watch Day9, study replays, practice builds against friends and AIs and do some casting), but my purpose in improving is to gain the ability to do more cool stuff during games rather than win.
So the bottom line is this. Ask yourself why you like playing RTS'. You should like it because it's fun to build your econ and move armies. Don't focus on winning. Focus on playing the game! It's much more fun.
(cheese can still be annoying from time to time though. heh)
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On October 06 2010 00:08 Liquid`Ret wrote:can be very frustating indeed but then again, anything that has a winner and a loser at the end of it, can be frustating :D
/thread
plus OP. It's easy to get stuck on how many points you have. That can get frustrating. If you focus on improving little areas, and noticing improvements little by litte. That has more value.
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So this boils down to is that you want pretty decals and other worthless achievements easier to obtain...???
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I pretty much disagree 100%. BW was frustrating because I came to the scene late and random custum maps always ended in me getting my butt handed to me ir feeking bad because I was the weak link in team games. SC2 ladder on the other hand is far more rewarding for a weaker palyer. I started as silver and slowly moved up to platinum. That was fun and rewarding.
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The OP only sounds like someone trying to get portrait (as if they are of any use at all) but can't or some reasons.
Stop trying to play for rewards or wins only, that's just no how SC2 should be played. You just have to keep in mind that you play this to improve yourself, and improvement is where the real fun is.
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Dude games are by definition competitive. What game isnt? Tag is about who is the fastest and most agile; hide and seek is about who is best at hiding and moving back to base with stealth or speed. I could go on but I think my point is made. Why the hell would you get mad about a game that makes you compete and rewards winning.
I think what you are looking for is a simulation, may i suggest Farmville. It's easy, has lots of rewards for doing nothing, no one gets hurt, no one "cheeses", no rage quits or bm. Its a big happy community that celebrates green growing goodness.
SC2 is probably not for you my friendly fellow.
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OP plays too much Call of Duty.
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I think those protraits need to have a much easier unlock requirement so people can express themselves and arm themselves with their favoriate units.
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France2061 Posts
On October 06 2010 00:18 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
I actually agree with some of those points. I dislike ladder because I am pitted against someone equal my skill so that I would only have a 50-50 win rate. I personally not so interest in climbing the ladder and play much more custom game.
I classify myself as a fairly casual player. I do enjoy making builds and perfecting my play, but only to a certain degree. I am a med student and don't have time to practice, and I know I will never have the mechanic of flash and Jaedong, Why should I keep laddering when I keep running into tougher and tougher opponents? As a result I stopped laddering at around 1100 pts and I still have a 60% win rate at that level.
Ladder system make it discourging for a vast majority of people because we will have 50-50 win rate, or we will lose 50% of our games. Only 1% of the players at best will win more than 50% on the ladder or win tournments.
Compare this with first person shooters (which I hail from), where everyone have their favoriate server and even those who are not as hard core can dominate a server
I do wish wins in custom game would count toward achievements and icon.
Wait, so your complaint is that you're playing people of equal skill rather than noobs who you could easily stomp on? If this was iccup and you were losing 90% of your games I could understand the frustration, but being unhappy about opponents suited for your level is weird.
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On October 06 2010 00:05 Dental Floss wrote:
When I was grinding away at BW last year I thought the game was a lot less frustrating than SC2. I would play against some smurf account and lose like 3 workers to their probe harass, have my expo pylon blocked and then just get rolled by corsair/reaver or something, but I wouldn't feel frustrated because I knew I had been beaten legitimately.
This is so true! In BW you play some smurf which practically kills you when you don't even have anything but workers, and then you have to play some sort of midgame altough you know you're so behind against a better player. But it's the only midgame you can reach untill you are solid D.
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SC1 made me rage much harder than SC2 does. I don't get mad when I get cheesed or outplayed, I get mad when I lose because I clearly screwed up, and it's way easier to screw up in SC1.
Sure there are more silly losses in SC2 like when I don't scout and deservedly get 5 void rays in my face, but I no longer accidentally cast 10 psi storms in one spot or yamato a single unit so many times I cry a little. No more frustrating goliaths dancing around on a ramp instead of moving up it. No forgetting to tell SCVs to start mining after they're made.
SC2 makes it so much easier to get the basics down with smart cast, auto-mining and lots of auto-cast abilities that it's harder to lose with a single misclick.
I can survive in platinum with like 50 APM, subpar scouting and poor micro. If I went back to SC1 I'd lose like 90% of my games and spend days raging. SC2 is happyfuntimes.
If I get cheesed in SC2 I just shrug, quit, and start again. Losing to cheese isn't frustrating at all. Neither is losing to someone who is a way better player than you. Losing when you realize you could have won, but screwed up... that's frustrating.
If you can't take the pressure, go play a tower defense. If you just wanna win 90% of your games, play against the computer.
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Do you get angry when you lose?
yes, if it's against cheese.
Have you ever cursed when losing a game?
i sigh, or go "awwww" and sad face.
Have you ever raged quit?
no, i gg even losing to cheese.
Do you fear playing ladder because it might screw up your record?
i fear it, but not cause of my record.
If yes to anyone of these, then ask yourself one more question.
Did SC1 ever make you feel this way?
yes. exact same answers to all questions (replace sc2 ladder with SC1 iccup).
i pretty much have the exact same mentality and feeling from sc2 compared to sc1 (except that i win alot more in sc2 ladder than on sc1 iccup).
and no, i don't feel like i "have" to win for portraits... o_o
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On October 05 2010 19:40 SuperBigFoot wrote:
My solution to this is simply to reward the player for playing the game. Both wins and losses should be counted toward rewards, along with custom games.
The first picture that popped into my mind was that of a mouse running around in a lab and getting cheese (oooh) for succeeding at performing the stupidest tasks.
Rewards? Are you serious? Would that lower your frustration? Is your mind that twisted when it comes to entertainment? I think people still misunderstand the game they are playing. Especially 1vs1. Yes Blizzard tried their best to pull as many curtains in front of your eyes to deceive you into believing you are a good player, but the opposite is usually the case.
If you people are here for the quick fix like Call Of Duty or Battlefield offer you where there is essentially only very little learning required (if you can operate a keyboard and mouse to aim and shoot you mastered 99% of the game), then well yes the Starcraft 2 1vs1 department will be difficult. I don't even wan't to talk about Brood War. Talking about frustration there hahaha! :'((
Look at me, i'm very close to 1400 now with nothing but my BW mechanics and some very low level logic. I freestyle most of my games, but now has come the time where i cant come up with stuff on the fly and hope i'm oh so smarter.
The same truth applies to SC2 as it did to BW. Take a match up, take a build order and learn it. Learn every possible variation, every timing, every counter-push. Step by step. Don't care about wining, care about improving. And once you started doing that i guarantee you that winning because of your "superior" knowledge will feel very rewarding.
For me that's the beauty of it. It is hard, it takes time. It's about me.
Others just don't want that in a game.
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I'm sure it's been stated before, but you could just ignore the portraits and achievements. Who cares? It's just a picture anyway. Or achievements, it's just a number of points. Not a big deal. Play when you want to and don't worry about winning or ladder rank, or whatever.
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Just screw around on ladder, try some crazy builds. You don't need to go all out to win every game. You'll eventually get the portraits just by having fun and taking the wins as they come.
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I agree with OP. I often have feelings of frustration as well regarding this game. Currently, I find it amusing that I am avoiding playing ladder 1v1 because I haven't played 1v1 in almost 2 months now... I feel as though I will be horrible at 1v1 and ruin my diamond rating. Kinda sad I know... But what do you do? What's worse is that as time goes on I become even more hesitant to play 1v1 because I know I'm getting worse and worse! I know I'm rusty and will lose a bunch of games and don't want to so I just play team games. But I even get frustrated if I don't win enough of those. It's funny because I'm playing less and less because of these facts. Right now, I've just been getting all of the single player achievements =/ sad eh?
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actually SC:BW made me feel this way more and it was harder to fix
you just sound like you're bad and have no drive to get better, which is more of a personal problem than Blizzard's fault.
Your complaining makes no sense. even if they made more achievements (for winning AND losing???) then there'd still be the one's there are now for winning.
if you don't wanna ladder then don't ladder. the reward is in the competition.
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If it's frustrating to play, no one is forcing you to play (or I would hope not anyways).
In the grand scheme of things, it's a game, there are many others like it, you can pick one that doesn't piss you off to no end. Would that necessarily give you satisfaction? No, but you need to balancing what you want out of the game, fun or satisfaction. If you can't get either, what's the point in playing, other than to piss yourself off any more than you already are?
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Yeah man, sometimes this game is no fun at all. During 2 of my placement matches my connection dropped unexpectedly and i was put in bronze. This is the worst sc2 thing that has ever happened to me. Everyone in bronze either does MMM (making the most boring game ever), or they do cheese of some sort. It is very fun when i play 2v2's and 1v1's with my friends, but ladder is the stupidest thing ever. There are a lot of trolls in sc2 as well and that pisses me off
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I would practice NOT looking at your points and ladder record. Just go with the flow.
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If you're that worried about all that shit then play custom.
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I don't really mind the quickmatch thing in itself. It makes finding games really quick and easy. But I still do really miss chatrooms and it's mpossible to just play casual games that aren't custom now which kinda sucks.
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On October 05 2010 19:40 SuperBigFoot wrote:
First off, let me say that there is a big distinction between the two words Fun and Frustrating.
holy SHIT really?
Play to get better O_o not for portraits.
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From what I gather...you have discovered competitive starcraft and now dislike the fact that you are losing and want to win without having to practice a lot (understandable).
Perhaps maybe you can just play vs computers or friends?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i53.tinypic.com/23igwpc.gif)
