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On February 08 2010 00:14 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2010 00:03 ErOs_HalO wrote:
Bad parenting I suppose, when I was very very very young I remember having the opportunity to shoot an animal with a BB Gun.. and I thought to myself.. Gosh only a sick son of a bitch would do something like that...
It must be the parenting!
I don't get how young kids hurt animals.. a lot of children do. I once saw a boy, he was maybe 12/13 throwing stones at a cygnet. I went to him and punched im in his fucking face. I throw a stone at him after and asked if he liked that. I'd fucking kill someone who kill a cat with an air rifle.
Though hurting animals is wrong what you did is even worse then what he did. You punched a 12 year old in the face and threw a stone at him. And you're talking about it as if you're proud of what you did.
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On February 09 2010 07:09 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2010 07:00 StorkHwaiting wrote:On February 09 2010 06:57 Boblion wrote:On February 09 2010 06:50 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I don't understand how the OP who is a vet can say that letting a cat run wild outdoors is an okay thing to do. ??? Eh i always let my cats go outdoors... i don't understand what is your problem man. It is not like if it was a tiger or a lion lol. Go look up the impact of cats on local wildlife. Cats kill things for fun. And they're very good at killing. Stop letting your cats go outdoors. It's a fked up thing to do. People are on here cheering the guy who threw a rock at a kid for bothering a cygnet. Well, a housecat will do a lot worse than bother a cygnet. It'll snap its neck in half and claw it to shreds. A cat would be destroyed by a cygnet you have no idea lol. The only kind of cats that would kill a cygnet are large hungry male feral cats and i'm not even sure they could take down an adult cygnet. Most of home cats are scared by Common Magpie you know... a cygnet is like 5x larger. Mine have only killed lizards and sometimes an Harvest Mouse or a Sparrow ( like if i care anyway :D )
They must grow them different in Andorra then lol. I don't know what to tell you man. I've seen cats in FL maul some serious things. Who knows though. We got a lot of hicks out here. Maybe some of them crossed their house cats with bobcats or something and made crazy beast hybrids. All I know is down here in dirty cats are vicious.
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On February 09 2010 07:00 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2010 06:57 Boblion wrote:On February 09 2010 06:50 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I don't understand how the OP who is a vet can say that letting a cat run wild outdoors is an okay thing to do. ??? Eh i always let my cats go outdoors... i don't understand what is your problem man. It is not like if it was a tiger or a lion lol. Go look up the impact of cats on local wildlife. Cats kill things for fun. And they're very good at killing. Stop letting your cats go outdoors. It's a fked up thing to do. People are on here cheering the guy who threw a rock at a kid for bothering a cygnet. Well, a housecat will do a lot worse than bother a cygnet. It'll snap its neck in half and claw it to shreds. Feral Cat Colonies in FloridaGrowing Feral Cat ProblemThe Great Australian Cat DilemmaThese three links are some of the first things that come up on Google. It's ridiculously easy to find information on this issue, probably because it is a major issue. Stop letting your cats outside unattended.
Your links are cool but we are not talking about feral cats man.
I let my cat go out and kill little stuff if he wants exercice but he often spend his whole day with and i always pay attention to feed him.
edit: yea we are probably not talking about the same things 
In Europe feral cats are quite rare and real wildcats ( Felis silvestris ) are almost inexistent except in forests / mountains. Anyway they are smaller than your bobcats.
Most of the cats you will see outside are your normal home cat and they are all fed so they aren't real danger for anything larger than a mouse ( or others male cats if they aren't spayed :p )
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On February 09 2010 07:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2010 03:27 StorkHwaiting wrote:
It would be ridiculously hypocritical to try to punish people for animal cruelty and then give subsidies to the agricultural industry. In my opinion, if they try to push this animal cruelty thing any further, the law would be an absolute sham. The farmer who slaughters livestock does it to feed hundreds of people. The kid who shoots a cat does it for the fuck of it. Please tell me you can see the difference. Show nested quote +On February 08 2010 03:27 StorkHwaiting wrote:
While animal cruelty is morally repugnant, it is even more repugnant to say that it is okay to abuse animals in the context of profiteering but illegal in the context of pleasure. It doesn't work. I don't see how social utility arguments are repugnant in this context. You'll have to explain that to me.
He doesn't do it to feed anyone but his own family. Feeding hundreds is just a side-effect. And your argument doesn't make sense to me considering raising livestock is one of the most inefficient forms of agriculture known to man.
Eating meat is a luxury. Done for pleasure. Throwing rocks at a cat is a luxury. Done for pleasure. Just like people who go out duckhunting are doing it for fun. It'd cost them a lot less in both time and money to go and buy a farm-raised duck at the store.
While I sympathize with the OP's feelings and I too would be extremely upset if my pet was shot by someone for fun, I don't understand where there is a moral outrage over this kind of thing or a legal punishment considering so many other facets of our society routinely engage in animal cruelty for the sake of pleasure without any hindrance at all.
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On February 09 2010 07:16 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Eating meat is a luxury.
Tell me you are trolling :o
On February 09 2010 07:16 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I don't understand where there is a moral outrage over this kind of thing or a legal punishment considering so many other facets of our society routinely engage in animal cruelty for the sake of pleasure without any hindrance at all.
Uh ?
Care to elaborate ?
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On February 09 2010 07:11 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2010 07:00 StorkHwaiting wrote:On February 09 2010 06:57 Boblion wrote:On February 09 2010 06:50 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I don't understand how the OP who is a vet can say that letting a cat run wild outdoors is an okay thing to do. ??? Eh i always let my cats go outdoors... i don't understand what is your problem man. It is not like if it was a tiger or a lion lol. Go look up the impact of cats on local wildlife. Cats kill things for fun. And they're very good at killing. Stop letting your cats go outdoors. It's a fked up thing to do. People are on here cheering the guy who threw a rock at a kid for bothering a cygnet. Well, a housecat will do a lot worse than bother a cygnet. It'll snap its neck in half and claw it to shreds. Feral Cat Colonies in FloridaGrowing Feral Cat ProblemThe Great Australian Cat DilemmaThese three links are some of the first things that come up on Google. It's ridiculously easy to find information on this issue, probably because it is a major issue. Stop letting your cats outside unattended. Your links are cool but we are not talking about feral cats man. I let my cat go out and kill little stuff if he wants exercice but he often spend his whole day with and i always pay attention to feed him.
When a cat goes outdoors, it is feral at that time for all intents and purposes. I can't speak for what you personally do for obvious reasons. Maybe what you do is harmless. But there are numerous numerous reasons for not letting cats out unsupervised. The spread of rabies and other parasites/diseases is a huge factor.
And in general, look at the logic. "I let my cat go out and kill little stuff if he wants exercise." That's not okay. That "little stuff" is part of the natural ecosystem. Your cat is not. It can get exercise a thousand other ways that don't involve killing. Just like people are here condemning this unknown person for getting a little air rifle practice on the OP's cat, letting your cat out to go kill things for exercise should be condemned.
But I'm not trying to call you out or anything. I'm just trying to let people know that letting cats out is damaging to the environment and has a lot of risks, both to the owner's cat, to other people's pets, and to the local wildlife. There is absolutely no reason for a domesticated cat to be let off the leash to run around outside. If the cat wants out, take him/her for a walk. This should be common sense. An animal should never be left unattended.
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On February 09 2010 07:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2010 07:11 Boblion wrote:On February 09 2010 07:00 StorkHwaiting wrote:On February 09 2010 06:57 Boblion wrote:On February 09 2010 06:50 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I don't understand how the OP who is a vet can say that letting a cat run wild outdoors is an okay thing to do. ??? Eh i always let my cats go outdoors... i don't understand what is your problem man. It is not like if it was a tiger or a lion lol. Go look up the impact of cats on local wildlife. Cats kill things for fun. And they're very good at killing. Stop letting your cats go outdoors. It's a fked up thing to do. People are on here cheering the guy who threw a rock at a kid for bothering a cygnet. Well, a housecat will do a lot worse than bother a cygnet. It'll snap its neck in half and claw it to shreds. Feral Cat Colonies in FloridaGrowing Feral Cat ProblemThe Great Australian Cat DilemmaThese three links are some of the first things that come up on Google. It's ridiculously easy to find information on this issue, probably because it is a major issue. Stop letting your cats outside unattended. Your links are cool but we are not talking about feral cats man. I let my cat go out and kill little stuff if he wants exercice but he often spend his whole day with and i always pay attention to feed him. When a cat goes outdoors, it is feral at that time for all intents and purposes. I can't speak for what you personally do for obvious reasons. Maybe what you do is harmless. But there are numerous numerous reasons for not letting cats out unsupervised. The spread of rabies and other parasites/diseases is a huge factor.
My cat is vaccined vs pretty much everything including rabbies. The worst thing they can get is a flea.
On February 09 2010 07:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:
And in general, look at the logic. "I let my cat go out and kill little stuff if he wants exercise." That's not okay. That "little stuff" is part of the natural ecosystem.
Afaik natural ecosystem in suburbs isn't really natural anymore.
Furthermore sparrows, wall lizards ( lol they are everywhere ) and mouses aren't endangered species. Actually in suburbs except for cats they have no predators ( dogs can't really go outside, buzzards and foxes usually don't come too near of houses ).
On February 09 2010 07:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Your cat is not. It can get exercise a thousand other ways that don't involve killing. Just like people are here condemning this unknown person for getting a little air rifle practice on the OP's cat, letting your cat out to go kill things for exercise should be condemned.
To be fair i value (semi) large mammals like a cat more than mouses or lizards. Also i don't understand how a cat killing a lizard has something to do with a person killing an animal for fun. You know what hunting is legal here but you can't shot randomly everything. I have no problem with people hunting wild animals to eat. But shooting cats / dogs / horses / etc for fun ... is retarded, cruel and illegal.
On February 09 2010 07:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But I'm not trying to call you out or anything. I'm just trying to let people know that letting cats out is damaging to the environment and has a lot of risks, both to the owner's cat, to other people's pets, and to the local wildlife. There is absolutely no reason for a domesticated cat to be let off the leash to run around outside. If the cat wants out, take him/her for a walk. This should be common sense. An animal should never be left unattended.
Situation and habits are completly different in Europe i guess. Also i think you completly miss the fact that cats are really independant. I would agree with you to never let a dog alone but cats are really different ( and way smaller so they aren't a threat even for kids ).
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You also need to understand that the ecosystem in Europe is completly different than in the United States.
House cats are doing the job of small predators who are nowadays really rare ( Stoats, weasels, wild cats, martens, genets etc ... )
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Everyone is born bad... but I bet with enough practice anyone can get A-.
I remember when I was a lot younger I use to stamp on bees during break times, I've never been stung but it was a dumb thing to do anyway.
I also playfully threw rocks at a horse once, although I'm not regretful for that; horses are ugly, smelly, stupid and like to leave their huge dumps on the pavement.
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On February 09 2010 06:50 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2010 04:13 Squallcloud wrote:
It's only a cat. If it's a nuisance you shoo it away! At worse you take a broom. Taking out your gun is pushing it a bit far i think... I can shoo a cat away but tell the bird or marsupial or frog or any other animal a cat preys on to "shoo" it away. They don't have that option. They just get murdered by the cat. So, I really don't feel any pity when a cat dies. It's a predator. Live by the sword, die by the sword. To all the people who think cats are defenseless little cuddlies. They are not! They are ferocious killers that should be put down if they get outside the house. It's the pet owner's responsibility to keep their pet indoors or on a leash. Stray cats are a serious scourge to the natural wildlife in many parts of the world. They are an invasive species! I don't understand how the OP who is a vet can say that letting a cat run wild outdoors is an okay thing to do.
first of all, no life on this planet can be a scourge to any environment. if it dominates what has been there before its arrival its called being better adapted to it, this is how natural selection and evolution works and it also means that the species that get in trouble because of it are simply not suited to be there. you should understand that especially after saying "live by the sword, die by the sword" (which makes a surprising amount of sense tbh, i think the cat really couldnt complain even if it were able to communicate).
second thing: you lost a pet (i think it was you who wrote that). GET OVER IT. just because you didnt pay attention to your own pet and it fell victim to one of those "ferocious killers" doesnt mean all cats are evil, deserve to be shot at, suffer and die.
the reason for this is point 3: humans can feel empathy, are more aware than any other species on this planet and can think. so we dont have an excuse for murdering or hurting others, because we actually have a choice.
On February 09 2010 07:00 StorkHwaiting wrote:
People are on here cheering the guy who threw a rock at a kid for bothering a cygnet. Well, a housecat will do a lot worse than bother a cygnet. It'll snap its neck in half and claw it to shreds.
update:
On February 09 2010 07:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:
And in general, look at the logic. "I let my cat go out and kill little stuff if he wants exercise." That's not okay. That "little stuff" is part of the natural ecosystem. Your cat is not. [...]
I'm just trying to let people know that letting cats out is damaging to the environment and has a lot of risks, both to the owner's cat, to other people's pets, and to the local wildlife. There is absolutely no reason for a domesticated cat to be let off the leash to run around outside. If the cat wants out, take him/her for a walk. This should be common sense. An animal should never be left unattended.
i dont understand how you can make so intelligent and good points at times, but such awfully thought through ones at the other.
how can a cat not be part of the ecosystem? cats are animals, any living being is part of nature. and ecosystems evolve, just as species do. this can seem drastic at times, when some ecosystems have been protected from competition because of isolation and then suddenly have to face it again, much like the american car industry which doesnt live up to the standards elsewhere. but in the end they will have to adapt, or go under.
as such no living thing can ever damage the environment, only the local wildlife. but that is a totally natural thing to happen. that some species were domesticated and introduced to ecosystems that were isolated from them before doesnt change that at all. it is still natures work. sooner or later some form of competition would have arisen anyways. no species lives forever without changing itself to better work with the changing environments it finds itself in.
and also, since you are arguing with the unnecessary suffering we inflict on cattle, dont you also think we should let ALL cats run free instead of putting a leash on them?
those things are common sense, too, btw. but as we all know unfortunately common sense really isnt that common. so i can only show you things you left out of your equasion and the inconsistencies that are in it.
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On February 09 2010 07:10 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2010 00:14 G.s)NarutO wrote:On February 08 2010 00:03 ErOs_HalO wrote:
Bad parenting I suppose, when I was very very very young I remember having the opportunity to shoot an animal with a BB Gun.. and I thought to myself.. Gosh only a sick son of a bitch would do something like that...
It must be the parenting!
I don't get how young kids hurt animals.. a lot of children do. I once saw a boy, he was maybe 12/13 throwing stones at a cygnet. I went to him and punched im in his fucking face. I throw a stone at him after and asked if he liked that. I'd fucking kill someone who kill a cat with an air rifle. Though hurting animals is wrong what you did is even worse then what he did. You punched a 12 year old in the face and threw a stone at him. And you're talking about it as if you're proud of what you did.
the cygnet is an animal and as such innocent, even more so since it is not a predator in the way a cat is. the boy on the other hand is fully responsible for the actions he chose to commit. so i would say that without a doubt what that kid did is in fact worse than what naruto did to the boy.
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On February 09 2010 07:21 Boblion wrote:Tell me you are trolling :o no, why? what he said is absolutely right. raising cattle for food provides less supply than using the feelds used to provide for the cattle to provide food for humans.
i think the factor was something like 7-13, dont remember it exactly.
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My two cents:
On cats being killers: Yeah they tend to kill for fun. But you can't keep a cat responsible for killing a mouse the same way that you keep a person responsible for shooting a cat? Why not? Because when a man gets his rifle and decides to shoot a cat he realizes what he is doing. I am watching the two cats at home when they find a bug they freak out and try to kill it and eventually eat it but this is how they react. It's not like cats have the train of thought: I am bored. I see a cat. Where is my rifle? There it is! Why not shoot that cat? Yeah, why the fuck not? Here, let me aim! BANG! Hell that was so fun! That damn cat didn't see what hit it! HAHAHAHA! Have to find me another cat/dog/bird to kill it's so damn fun!
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On February 09 2010 12:10 enzym wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2010 07:21 Boblion wrote:On February 09 2010 07:16 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Eating meat is a luxury.
Tell me you are trolling :o no, why? what he said is absolutely right. raising cattle for food provides less supply than using the feelds used to provide for the cattle to provide food for humans. i think the factor was something like 7-13, dont remember it exactly.
yea and cattle and stuff release so much methane and stuff right : (
should all be vegetarians~
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On February 09 2010 12:10 enzym wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2010 07:21 Boblion wrote:On February 09 2010 07:16 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Eating meat is a luxury.
Tell me you are trolling :o no, why? what he said is absolutely right. raising cattle for food provides less supply than using the feelds used to provide for the cattle to provide food for humans. i think the factor was something like 7-13, dont remember it exactly.
Except that humans being were hunters first before being breeders. Eating meat isn't a luxury, it is evolution.
Also good luck having a decent shape with 0 proteines. I don't want to be skinny and weak.
Your definition of "luxury" is so vague and twisted that it can include pretty much everything.
Eating rice is a luxury because grass is less expensive !
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EPT
