|
"In our black studies class we are learning that the only race that can be racist is white people, because they have the most power (she's referring to the U.S.) -- so while a minority can be prejudice towards white people, they can never actually be racist since they can't put whites on a lower power level. Do you agree with this?"
I'm thinking this is her misinterpreting what her black studies teacher said.
The white race as a whole are by and large dominating and controlling US economy and politics far more than any of the minorities, and as thus sit with the potential to use their dominant power for racial abuse. Since the minorities have no such power, they can not use the institution to the advantage of their own, and to the disadvantage of others. In effect, the white race sits with the power to be racist in their policies against the minorities.
Her intepretation, that whitey is keepin the man down yo, is a common mistake someone can make if they, deliberately or due to ignorance, mix institutional racism and person-to-person racism. The potential abuse of the power of leaders to affect the daily life =! everyday racism between random people.
Of course, the teacher could also be a bastard who feels whitey is keepin the man down yo. What do I know.
|
On October 28 2009 06:19 Freyr wrote:
To the OP -
Yeah the girl's statement was idiotic, but don't assume that is specifically what is being taught in her black studies class. It's just as likely that she didn't understand what her professor was saying (as others have pointed out, they could have been using a specific definition that is different from the 'normal' one).
There's also a lot of motivation to present yourself as significantly more oppressed than you actually are, which could explain the significance of the class divide.
Yeah I could see her misunderstanding her professor, but I sure am curious now.
It's just really annoying hearing the, "whites don't know what it's like" attitude.
Our teacher asked if any of the blacks in the class could give an example of prejudice they experience in their lives. of course, you'd hear the typical case of, "this job interviewer was racist because I didn't get hired for being black when he though I was white on the phone..." etc...
Oh my you poor thing, like everyone, no matter what race doesn't get some prejudice every day? Being a woman? Being short? Having certain hair length? The way your dress? The way you talk? Having certain hobbies?
No, it's only skin color that makes it tough. Forget the fact that you get bombarded with amazing opportunities everyday just because of your skin color -- opportunities that a white person can be very jealous of.
|
i dont even understand why racism is a bad thing
people are racist against everybody, even subconsciously.
we gotta just accept that people are racist
just like we accept that people are different
we don't have to support racism, but saying that a specific group of people is racist is in itself racist. For instance, one could argue that blacks in the LA riots were racist against the Koreans, because they had a power advantage over them and targeted them. This is the type of stupid, circular argument that is purely used to shut down freedom of speech.
|
|
|
I blame the parents and their parents for force feeding their kids all the bullshit about how evil the white man is, and how much he owes black people for something his ancestors did over 100 years ago or whenever the fuck this happened.
Its a bit different in countries like norway though..a black friend of mine is the biggest racist I've ever met, he hates his "own" people couse they act like retards.
|
Actually I would argue that as a whole whites on average have more opportunities than blacks, at least in the United States. Programs such as affirmative action try to alleviate that and are criticized perhaps largely because they are so visible rather than historically institutionalized, but to pretend that American history has not given most whites an advantage over other minorities is rather short-sighted.
But yeah, back on the topic: I think the whole issue here really is the definition of racism. I feel that the definition she's using (regardless of what dictionary you wish to pull up right now) is that racism is prejudice+power, and if that is the case, then I think she is correct. If not, then just sadly ignorant.
I'm more sympathetic to the definition she's using because as noted before, why make a distinction between racism and prejudice in the first place if they're going to be considered the same thing.
|
On October 28 2009 06:30 Caller wrote:
i dont even understand why racism is a bad thing
people are racist against everybody, even subconsciously.
we gotta just accept that people are racist
just like we accept that people are different
we don't have to support racism, but saying that a specific group of people is racist is in itself racist. For instance, one could argue that blacks in the LA riots were racist against the Koreans, because they had a power advantage over them and targeted them. This is the type of stupid, circular argument that is purely used to shut down freedom of speech.
I don't know that racism is so universal. Once again it comes down to definitions - yeah everyone is going to have different reactions to people who look different, especially if they aren't desensitized (growing up in an all-white town etc), but in my opinion that is not racism. Racism is when you welcome that reaction and act as if it's justified and acceptable (assuming the reaction is already negative). People who may have that, but do their best to mitigate it are not racist (once again, in my opinion).
I agree though, that identifying racism with groups only perpetuates the problem. In fact it's usually not ideal to specifically call out individuals as being racist (that can create the same situation) even if they are.
|
On October 28 2009 06:31 koreasilver wrote:
Meh.
You can explain yourself if you'd like, it could be eye opening for people on here including myself.
|
This is a phenomenon not only known to the U.S.
In Germany we have an ongoing debate for about 8yrs now whether it would be discriminating/racist to name the nationality or even ethnic background of crime committers in newspapers. Or publishing crime rate reports with regard of nationality/ethnicity. I would say the (big) newspapers are split even when it comes to whether naming it or not. And so is the debate as one side accuses the other of either heating up racism towards immigrants or neglecting higher crime rates produced by those.
Most foreign people I know are laughing over this, because this really is a German thing. Since Hitler is gone a big part of Germans (mostly the generation in the 50s-70s) are in great fear of racism coming up again and shit like that.
(I dont like Marx that much but that guy also had his bright moments:
Hegel remarks somewhere that history tends to repeat itself. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.)
|
Its not real racism if its not discriminating against jews
|
On October 28 2009 06:37 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:
This is a phenomenon not only known to the U.S.
In Germany we have an ongoing debate for about 8yrs now whether it would be discriminating/racist to name the nationality or even ethnic background of crime committers in newspapers. Or publishing crime rate reports with regard of nationality/ethnicity. I would say the (big) newspapers are split even when it comes to whether naming it or not. And so is the debate as one side accuses the other of either heating up racism towards immigrants or neglecting higher crime rates produced by those.
Most foreign people I know are laughing over this, because this really is a German thing. Since Hitler is gone a big part of Germans (mostly the generation in the 50s-70s) are in great fear of racism coming up again and shit like that.
(I dont like Marx that much but that guy also had his bright moments:
Hegel remarks somewhere that history tends to repeat itself. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.)
I think it's very a very worthwhile dicussion. Newspapers may either omit or include the nationality depending on whether they want to put one ethnicity in a certain light. While I don't think there should be any law about it, I believe it is very important to be aware of the problems that this question brings up.
Edited a word choice.
|
When it comes to America I can understand the general frustration that many blacks may have because even now blacks are very marginalized by the system. Many whites may believe that minorities have it better than them because of some slight benefits that minorities may have, but that's just utterly retarded because many whites obviously don't realize how bad the prejudices against minorities are even to this day (most significantly, blacks). When I look into the history and society of America, whites seriously are to be blamed for the living standards of blacks, and the subsequent degenerative life that some blacks may be pushed into living. Obviously most people don't really look into it and give it a damn and find it easier to just simply blame the low level minorities of sucking the government of tax money, causing crime, and not working hard enough to become productive citizens. I'm not closely connected to any black communities so I don't really have an intimate idea of how some blacks may think of society and their position in it or how much beliefs may differ amongst themselves, but I can easily see how many, many blacks must be absolutely frustrated and angered at whites.
With all sincerity, most whites simply do not understand minorities. It might be annoying when people say that, but it's true. Whites really don't get it. So many whites think they solved their societal problems when it comes to race but they don't realize that under the surface shit is still really bad. If you really, really think minorities have it better than whites or even have it on par, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
edit: This doesn't really have to do with the racism discussion of this thread but the things some people have said in this thread just really annoyed me.
|
This black girl is stupid.
|
the girl and the class sound like a complete joke
|
i sure 'm racist, i hate them protoss
|
My Asian American studies has said the same thing actually.
This is what I have in my current notes for the class
"- Racism
o In order to be racist, you have to have power. If you can’t implement a power, you can’t discriminate. Concerning institutional racism.
o Racial prejudice is irrelevant if a person can’t convert that prejudice into action. Racism requires influences legislation or some enforced policy. Then only called racist (as the professor refers to it)."
Basically the definition of racist is different in the context he is using, aka institutional racism. If your'e going on the definition from dictionary.com, my professor is just... wrong.
|
On October 28 2009 05:24 eMbrace wrote:
I was going to speak my opinion, but I didn't feel like getting screamed at as well 0_o.
Coward
Learn to stand up for yourself anywhere anytime. Specially when a guy that thinks like you has the balls to say his opinion and is being talked down at.
Your classmate's arguments are stupid, I can't believe she actually thinks this is true. Also, why the fuck would she bring the issue into debate if she KNOWS her version is true. "Teach em white kids" eh... WTF
|
On October 28 2009 06:46 koreasilver wrote:
When it comes to America I can understand the general frustration that many blacks may have because even now blacks are very marginalized by the system. Many whites may believe that minorities have it better than them because of some slight benefits that minorities may have, but that's just utterly retarded because many whites obviously don't realize how bad the prejudices against minorities are even to this day (most significantly, blacks). When I look into the history and society of America, whites seriously are to be blamed for the living standards of blacks, and the subsequent degenerative life that some blacks may be pushed into living. Obviously most people don't really look into it and give it a damn and find it easier to just simply blame the low level minorities of sucking the government of tax money, causing crime, and not working hard enough to become productive citizens. I'm not closely connected to any black communities so I don't really have an intimate idea of how some blacks may think of society and their position in it or how much beliefs may differ amongst themselves, but I can easily see how many, many blacks must be absolutely frustrated and angered at whites.
With all sincerity, most whites simply do not understand minorities. It might be annoying when people say that, but it's true. Whites really don't get it. So many whites think they solved their societal problems when it comes to race but they don't realize that under the surface shit is still really bad. If you really, really think minorities have it better than whites or even have it on par, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
edit: This doesn't really have to do with the racism discussion of this thread but the things some people have said in this thread just really annoyed me.
Sorry korea Im calling you on this.
Blacks are not marginalized by the system. Take my college experience- I had black friends who were accepted to a college when my other white friends who had higher GPA and SAT scores were denied. I know this as fact, because my black friend thought that it was rather funny and shared his scores with me. Affirmative action is a bitch, and frankly if you are a black person and can get out of college with a useful degree finding a job is not a problem.
Whites are not to be blamed for the living standards of blacks. The only thing that white people did many many years ago was red lining. However this is a thing of the past, and is certainly not carried on today. If you want to point the finger as to why many black people live in delapidated housing and in poor community's, the answer lies within the Kennedy and Clinton administration, along with the actions of the community members themselves.
Black people are never forced into that condition- it is simply a lack of education, and the lack of a strong family values. The black culture in America perpetuates the idea that the only way to succeed is to become a rapper, or a basket ball player. Education is never an option and being smart is not cool. The lack of appropriate values and the lack of parental teaching or proper morals is not in the typical black family. This is because of parents having children out of wedlock, incarcerated, dead, or having to work 2+ dead end jobs to try and make ends meet. It's no wonder why their kids end up on the street- perpetuating the cycle again and again. Black culture is simply a product of the environment that black kids were brought up in.
The only reason a black person would ever be frustrated with a white person is if the black person came from a terrible community, and or had no form of education. I can guarantee you that any middle class or upper class black person has no problem with the white neighbors. It is always the lower class fools.
as for whites not understanding blacks, i couldn't agree with you more. However enough is enough. it is common knowledge that this country was built on the backs of black people, and that slavery and the treatment of black people in the south a crime against humanity. the only problem with black people still carrying that baggage is that- i had nothing to do with it, my parents had nothing to do with it, and my kids most certainly will not have anything to do with it. The past should stay in the past, and frankly it's a huge copout when a black person pulls the slavery card. Because i can guarantee you that slavery has nothing to do with the modern day black persons plight.
Do minorities have it better than whites? Yes and no. It really depends on the minority that you ask. My friend from middle school is on a full ride to UW Madison- because her last name is Rameirez. Funny thing is, she is not hispanic. At the same time- If I a Midwestern white person would go to apply for a job on the coast- i can guarantee you that i would get the job over any white/black/pink/purple person.
Korea you live in Canada, have you ever been to Chicago? Milwaukee? Detroit? I go to school in Milwaukee the murder capitol of the Midwest (yes it has a higher murder rate than Chicago) and i can tell you from experience, that the biggest obstacle black people face- are themselves.
|
Well it certainly seems that white people are the only people who get in shit for being racist. At least you know you see all these comedians who use racist jokes and they're all not white, because if a white guy tries to pull stuff like that it just doesn't go over well.
|
On October 28 2009 06:23 OneOther wrote:obama is an exceptional case and individuals like him don't say much about the racism issue. i think the entire argument comes down to the fundamental definition of "racism."
Her racism = prejudice + power -> socioeconomic oppression disregards the fact that, afaik, there's no white policy-making institution actively trying to disadvantage any other race. Plus, society has developed to the point that such institutions would quickly be shot down by the media + public.
I'm not denying the fact that there possibly exist pro-white-anti-black policies, but until she gives us some examples, I don't think she's allowed to spout off some theoretically sound bullshit her professor fed her. And, I'm anticipating all "anti-black" policies nowadays are actually more like "anti-poor-people" policies that aren't designed to target any specific race - in which case, it's not being racist, which was the point of her whole argument.
So sure, plenty of white people are in power. And white people can abuse their power to their benefit. But they aren't actively trying to discriminate against any race when doing so.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
