I was going to post this in general, but I honestly felt someone would just lock it for whatever reason -- being how common (and annoying) this subject is.
But I wanted to discuss a certain issue that came up in my Engl 104 class as we were discussing the OJ Simpson case.
A black girl brought up the question to the professor, "In our black studies class we are learning that the only race that can be racist is white people, because they have the most power (she's referring to the U.S.) -- so while a minority can be prejudice towards white people, they can never actually be racist since they can't put whites on a lower power level. Do you agree with this?"
My professor(white) put it bluntly, "No, that's bullshit -- now what class is teaching you this.?"
And so the discussion went on and ended when a white guy in our class also disagreeing with the girl's view, and proceeded to get screamed and bitched at by the girl as most of the other black students chimed in agreement with her.
I was going to speak my opinion, but I didn't feel like getting screamed at as well 0_o.
Basically, the argument created a very uncomfortable divide in the class between the whites and blacks. White people in the class thought the viewpoint was nuts, and the black people said they don't know what they are talking about because they haven't taken the class.
-----------------------------------------------
So that's really the topic I want to get opinions on, and it's valid because it is being taught to minority students by professors here at my university, and possibly elsewhere -- that only whites can be racist.
We also touched on how blacks go through daily prejudices that whites can never understand -- and it just seemed like the subject just drew us farther apart.
Feel free to share your views. Remember the girl is saying those who have the most power, not population majority, are the only ones who can be racist.
Well the problem is that she admits minorities can have prejudice against other races, but they can't be racist -- because in her class they define racism as putting others at a lower power level.
I've typed up 100 things... Erased them all. I don't know what to say. It makes me angry and I keep erasing... Curious to see what other people have to say.
Its true that whites are basically the only group in a position to use racism to the determent of other races, however every person on this earth no matter who you are is capable of racism. Whites just have the ability to use it for more negative ends.
It's dependent on what you define to be racism and what you consider racist. The perspective of racism that she got from her professor is likely vastly different than the one of your English professor and probably most of the people in your class that aren't taking the same black studies class as well.
Any sane person knows that the girl's premise was retarded. We don't need to debate that. What I want to know is why your university is teaching that view to its students.
Don't Koreans and Japanese hate eachother generally? They both come from ranging socioeconomic statuses, I don't really know much about it, but I feel like rascism, in it's most basic form can be perpetrated by anyone... I think they are talking about something other than rascism, or rather, a combination of rascism and other factors. They are talking about the situation of the world's predominantly non-white poor, and in that context, what they are saying makes sense.
On October 28 2009 05:32 eMbrace wrote: Well the problem is that she admits minorities can have prejudice against other races, but they can't be racist -- because in her class they define racism as putting others at a lower power level.
Then tell her she's an idiot and can't expect the rest of the world to use her fucked up definition of the word racism?
Main Entry: rac·ism Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\ Function: noun Date: 1933
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
Is she just ignoring the fact that there are several parts of the world where there are almost no white people? (hello, asia says hi)
Blablabal we can't understand blablabla, pointless drivel - it's completely irrelevant to the point at hand; can non-whites be racist? YES.
No, that black girl is wrong in terms of the white population being the only racists. That's like saying that no blacks, yellows, browns can be racists.
The sad thing about all of this is that for some reason, black people are so racists and ignorant of Asian people. I used to get alot of jokes and racists remarks from black people in middle school and sometimes in high school; I wish I had the guts to tell them about their long history and longing for civil rights and ask them that I want the same as their people did.
On October 28 2009 05:34 AiurZ wrote: It's dependent on what you define to be racism and what you consider racist. The perspective of racism that she got from her professor is likely vastly different than the one of your English professor and probably most of the people in your class that aren't taking the same black studies class as well.
If people have wildly different definitions of racism then that's a huge problem isn't it? I was always taught that racism is believing one race is superior to another, and discriminating against a particular race because of this is a product of racism.
And since the label of "racist" is so largely negative, the rule that only white people are the true racists is extremely, dare I say -- offensive.
On October 28 2009 05:37 il0seonpurpose wrote: No, that black girl is wrong in terms of the white population being the only racists. That's like saying that no blacks, yellows, browns can be racists.
The sad thing about all of this is that for some reason, black people are so racists and ignorant of Asian people. I used to get alot of jokes and racists remarks from black people in middle school and sometimes in high school; I wish I had the guts to tell them about their long history and longing for civil rights and ask them that I want the same as their people did.
Are we talking racism here or just ridicule via rehashed stereotypes?
Because, for example, saying that "haha all asians study all day" isn't exactly putting yourself above asians.
It's either:
A.) A generalized perception based on someone's life experience (i,e, "most black people love rap music.")
or
B.) An extremely ignorant belief held by a retard.
FrozenArbiter: The OP mentions that the girl is referring to the U.S.
I think in a black studies class that it would be necessary to define racism and the definition of racism that she presented makes sense to me to have in that class because there are so many different levels of racial prejudice that can occur, and in order to navigate through history and literature you'll probably need to have much more precise words than simply a blanket of "racism" falling over everything.
Obviously there is going to be a divide between the academic use of word in her black studies class and a practical use for the non-intellectual world, but there is a valid point in making that sort of distinction about racism, especially in the sort of class that she got it from. Bringing it into an English 104 class, however, is completely stupid.
The thing is the definition that I hear outside of casual settings for racism is basically "prejudice plus power", and that's the one I go with, since otherwise it's basically indistinguishable from prejudice which is then pointless. In the United States, historically minorities have not had the power to back up whatever prejudices they may have and thus it's not racism. I am not a fan of the statement "only whites can be racist" primarily because if you go to other countries where white people have not historically dominated politically, then this is not necessarily the case.
But I would agree that in the contemporary United States, only whites can be racist, though anyone can be prejudiced.
Has a black person ever made you feel bad through prejudice? I can't really think of any derogatory stereotypes that can be attributed to me via my race. Obviously anyone can be a racist, but i feel like white people are the only people that can be accused of being racist because we're becoming so politically correct that if you call a black person racist, you're being racist.
It's true. I thought it was pretty much a commonly accepted nuance that only middle class white people can be made fun of these days, Athiests and Christians only of course.
- 'Black studies' is not deemed racist apparently to white peoples, but many would agree 'white studies' would offend black people. That's fucking retarded.
- Saying only whites can be racist is just fucking bullshit. Period.
- I know chances are this thread will lead to lots of flaming and shit, but in all seriousness, the black girl was most definitely out of line. Whether the positions/races were reversed or not doesn't change the fact that the girls statement and what is being taught is quite offensive, regardless of status or class or whatever.
On October 28 2009 05:29 LordWeird wrote: Yes it's true. Only whites can hate and discriminate against another race.
Your racist comments amuse me.
But jokes aside:
Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
Do you see anything about power here? Or anything like that? The truth is, you can be racist despite being a member of a minority. As long as black thinks his race is superior to white, he will be racist. It's the same for everyone.
Now, if we're talking about racial discrimination...
the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
Again, no mention of power etc. Everyone can be racist.
On October 28 2009 05:24 eMbrace wrote: A black girl brought up the question to the professor, "In our black studies class we are learning that the only race that can be racist is white people, because they have the most power (she's referring to the U.S.) -- so while a minority can be prejudice towards white people, they can never actually be racist since they can't put whites on a lower power level. Do you agree with this?"
Her professor's view is crazy. As many people have pointed out, anyone can be racist.
Perhaps, however, she misstated his point. Defining "prejudice" as "a belief about a group" and "discrimination" as "an action taken because of prejudice", I would definitely agree with the following:
"A group in power can more easily discriminate against a group not in power"
Note that this has nothing to do with being "racist" or not; it is possible for any member of any group can be racist.
Umm, so what happens in the case of black people in power? Eg. if my boss is black, can he be racist now? Can Obama be racist....clearly a white person is running the country lol.
On October 28 2009 06:15 akevin wrote: Umm, so what happens in the case of black people in power? Eg. if my boss is black, can he be racist now? Can Obama be racist....clearly a white person is running the country lol.
Someone actually brought up the point that a half-black man was currently the "most powerful man in the world." -- and she simply responded that it doesn't matter because most positions of power in the U.S. are still run by whites.
Yeah the girl's statement was idiotic, but don't assume that is specifically what is being taught in her black studies class. It's just as likely that she didn't understand what her professor was saying (as others have pointed out, they could have been using a specific definition that is different from the 'normal' one).
There's also a lot of motivation to present yourself as significantly more oppressed than you actually are, which could explain the significance of the class divide.
On October 28 2009 05:38 TheAntZ wrote: White people hardly are racist anymore, black people are the most racist people in the world now.
Where i live in sweden theres alot of immigrants(not black people tho) and alot of them are racist and randomly assaults/cusses white people for no reason - completely unprovoked.
Anyone who thinks just white people are racist is a fucking ignorant fool and most likely not white themselves(no racist, lol). Those who say white people are the only ones being racist are infact the ones being racist cause they are accusing another race.
Also, your school is really stupid. They have black people studies classes where they teach black people that only whites are racist. Now thats racial discrimination, they should fire that teacher asap.
obama is an exceptional case and individuals like him don't say much about the racism issue. i think the entire argument comes down to the fundamental definition of "racism."
"In our black studies class we are learning that the only race that can be racist is white people, because they have the most power (she's referring to the U.S.) -- so while a minority can be prejudice towards white people, they can never actually be racist since they can't put whites on a lower power level. Do you agree with this?"
I'm thinking this is her misinterpreting what her black studies teacher said.
The white race as a whole are by and large dominating and controlling US economy and politics far more than any of the minorities, and as thus sit with the potential to use their dominant power for racial abuse. Since the minorities have no such power, they can not use the institution to the advantage of their own, and to the disadvantage of others. In effect, the white race sits with the power to be racist in their policies against the minorities.
Her intepretation, that whitey is keepin the man down yo, is a common mistake someone can make if they, deliberately or due to ignorance, mix institutional racism and person-to-person racism. The potential abuse of the power of leaders to affect the daily life =! everyday racism between random people.
Of course, the teacher could also be a bastard who feels whitey is keepin the man down yo. What do I know.
Yeah the girl's statement was idiotic, but don't assume that is specifically what is being taught in her black studies class. It's just as likely that she didn't understand what her professor was saying (as others have pointed out, they could have been using a specific definition that is different from the 'normal' one).
There's also a lot of motivation to present yourself as significantly more oppressed than you actually are, which could explain the significance of the class divide.
Yeah I could see her misunderstanding her professor, but I sure am curious now.
It's just really annoying hearing the, "whites don't know what it's like" attitude.
Our teacher asked if any of the blacks in the class could give an example of prejudice they experience in their lives. of course, you'd hear the typical case of, "this job interviewer was racist because I didn't get hired for being black when he though I was white on the phone..." etc...
Oh my you poor thing, like everyone, no matter what race doesn't get some prejudice every day? Being a woman? Being short? Having certain hair length? The way your dress? The way you talk? Having certain hobbies?
No, it's only skin color that makes it tough. Forget the fact that you get bombarded with amazing opportunities everyday just because of your skin color -- opportunities that a white person can be very jealous of.
people are racist against everybody, even subconsciously.
we gotta just accept that people are racist just like we accept that people are different
we don't have to support racism, but saying that a specific group of people is racist is in itself racist. For instance, one could argue that blacks in the LA riots were racist against the Koreans, because they had a power advantage over them and targeted them. This is the type of stupid, circular argument that is purely used to shut down freedom of speech.
I blame the parents and their parents for force feeding their kids all the bullshit about how evil the white man is, and how much he owes black people for something his ancestors did over 100 years ago or whenever the fuck this happened.
Its a bit different in countries like norway though..a black friend of mine is the biggest racist I've ever met, he hates his "own" people couse they act like retards.
Actually I would argue that as a whole whites on average have more opportunities than blacks, at least in the United States. Programs such as affirmative action try to alleviate that and are criticized perhaps largely because they are so visible rather than historically institutionalized, but to pretend that American history has not given most whites an advantage over other minorities is rather short-sighted.
But yeah, back on the topic: I think the whole issue here really is the definition of racism. I feel that the definition she's using (regardless of what dictionary you wish to pull up right now) is that racism is prejudice+power, and if that is the case, then I think she is correct. If not, then just sadly ignorant.
I'm more sympathetic to the definition she's using because as noted before, why make a distinction between racism and prejudice in the first place if they're going to be considered the same thing.
On October 28 2009 06:30 Caller wrote: i dont even understand why racism is a bad thing
people are racist against everybody, even subconsciously.
we gotta just accept that people are racist just like we accept that people are different
we don't have to support racism, but saying that a specific group of people is racist is in itself racist. For instance, one could argue that blacks in the LA riots were racist against the Koreans, because they had a power advantage over them and targeted them. This is the type of stupid, circular argument that is purely used to shut down freedom of speech.
I don't know that racism is so universal. Once again it comes down to definitions - yeah everyone is going to have different reactions to people who look different, especially if they aren't desensitized (growing up in an all-white town etc), but in my opinion that is not racism. Racism is when you welcome that reaction and act as if it's justified and acceptable (assuming the reaction is already negative). People who may have that, but do their best to mitigate it are not racist (once again, in my opinion).
I agree though, that identifying racism with groups only perpetuates the problem. In fact it's usually not ideal to specifically call out individuals as being racist (that can create the same situation) even if they are.
This is a phenomenon not only known to the U.S. In Germany we have an ongoing debate for about 8yrs now whether it would be discriminating/racist to name the nationality or even ethnic background of crime committers in newspapers. Or publishing crime rate reports with regard of nationality/ethnicity. I would say the (big) newspapers are split even when it comes to whether naming it or not. And so is the debate as one side accuses the other of either heating up racism towards immigrants or neglecting higher crime rates produced by those. Most foreign people I know are laughing over this, because this really is a German thing. Since Hitler is gone a big part of Germans (mostly the generation in the 50s-70s) are in great fear of racism coming up again and shit like that. (I dont like Marx that much but that guy also had his bright moments: Hegel remarks somewhere that history tends to repeat itself. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.)
On October 28 2009 06:37 [DUF]MethodMan wrote: This is a phenomenon not only known to the U.S. In Germany we have an ongoing debate for about 8yrs now whether it would be discriminating/racist to name the nationality or even ethnic background of crime committers in newspapers. Or publishing crime rate reports with regard of nationality/ethnicity. I would say the (big) newspapers are split even when it comes to whether naming it or not. And so is the debate as one side accuses the other of either heating up racism towards immigrants or neglecting higher crime rates produced by those. Most foreign people I know are laughing over this, because this really is a German thing. Since Hitler is gone a big part of Germans (mostly the generation in the 50s-70s) are in great fear of racism coming up again and shit like that. (I dont like Marx that much but that guy also had his bright moments: Hegel remarks somewhere that history tends to repeat itself. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.)
I think it's very a very worthwhile dicussion. Newspapers may either omit or include the nationality depending on whether they want to put one ethnicity in a certain light. While I don't think there should be any law about it, I believe it is very important to be aware of the problems that this question brings up.
When it comes to America I can understand the general frustration that many blacks may have because even now blacks are very marginalized by the system. Many whites may believe that minorities have it better than them because of some slight benefits that minorities may have, but that's just utterly retarded because many whites obviously don't realize how bad the prejudices against minorities are even to this day (most significantly, blacks). When I look into the history and society of America, whites seriously are to be blamed for the living standards of blacks, and the subsequent degenerative life that some blacks may be pushed into living. Obviously most people don't really look into it and give it a damn and find it easier to just simply blame the low level minorities of sucking the government of tax money, causing crime, and not working hard enough to become productive citizens. I'm not closely connected to any black communities so I don't really have an intimate idea of how some blacks may think of society and their position in it or how much beliefs may differ amongst themselves, but I can easily see how many, many blacks must be absolutely frustrated and angered at whites.
With all sincerity, most whites simply do not understand minorities. It might be annoying when people say that, but it's true. Whites really don't get it. So many whites think they solved their societal problems when it comes to race but they don't realize that under the surface shit is still really bad. If you really, really think minorities have it better than whites or even have it on par, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
edit: This doesn't really have to do with the racism discussion of this thread but the things some people have said in this thread just really annoyed me.
My Asian American studies has said the same thing actually.
This is what I have in my current notes for the class "- Racism o In order to be racist, you have to have power. If you can’t implement a power, you can’t discriminate. Concerning institutional racism. o Racial prejudice is irrelevant if a person can’t convert that prejudice into action. Racism requires influences legislation or some enforced policy. Then only called racist (as the professor refers to it)."
Basically the definition of racist is different in the context he is using, aka institutional racism. If your'e going on the definition from dictionary.com, my professor is just... wrong.
On October 28 2009 05:24 eMbrace wrote: I was going to speak my opinion, but I didn't feel like getting screamed at as well 0_o.
Coward
Learn to stand up for yourself anywhere anytime. Specially when a guy that thinks like you has the balls to say his opinion and is being talked down at.
Your classmate's arguments are stupid, I can't believe she actually thinks this is true. Also, why the fuck would she bring the issue into debate if she KNOWS her version is true. "Teach em white kids" eh... WTF
On October 28 2009 06:46 koreasilver wrote: When it comes to America I can understand the general frustration that many blacks may have because even now blacks are very marginalized by the system. Many whites may believe that minorities have it better than them because of some slight benefits that minorities may have, but that's just utterly retarded because many whites obviously don't realize how bad the prejudices against minorities are even to this day (most significantly, blacks). When I look into the history and society of America, whites seriously are to be blamed for the living standards of blacks, and the subsequent degenerative life that some blacks may be pushed into living. Obviously most people don't really look into it and give it a damn and find it easier to just simply blame the low level minorities of sucking the government of tax money, causing crime, and not working hard enough to become productive citizens. I'm not closely connected to any black communities so I don't really have an intimate idea of how some blacks may think of society and their position in it or how much beliefs may differ amongst themselves, but I can easily see how many, many blacks must be absolutely frustrated and angered at whites.
With all sincerity, most whites simply do not understand minorities. It might be annoying when people say that, but it's true. Whites really don't get it. So many whites think they solved their societal problems when it comes to race but they don't realize that under the surface shit is still really bad. If you really, really think minorities have it better than whites or even have it on par, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
edit: This doesn't really have to do with the racism discussion of this thread but the things some people have said in this thread just really annoyed me.
Sorry korea Im calling you on this.
Blacks are not marginalized by the system. Take my college experience- I had black friends who were accepted to a college when my other white friends who had higher GPA and SAT scores were denied. I know this as fact, because my black friend thought that it was rather funny and shared his scores with me. Affirmative action is a bitch, and frankly if you are a black person and can get out of college with a useful degree finding a job is not a problem.
Whites are not to be blamed for the living standards of blacks. The only thing that white people did many many years ago was red lining. However this is a thing of the past, and is certainly not carried on today. If you want to point the finger as to why many black people live in delapidated housing and in poor community's, the answer lies within the Kennedy and Clinton administration, along with the actions of the community members themselves.
Black people are never forced into that condition- it is simply a lack of education, and the lack of a strong family values. The black culture in America perpetuates the idea that the only way to succeed is to become a rapper, or a basket ball player. Education is never an option and being smart is not cool. The lack of appropriate values and the lack of parental teaching or proper morals is not in the typical black family. This is because of parents having children out of wedlock, incarcerated, dead, or having to work 2+ dead end jobs to try and make ends meet. It's no wonder why their kids end up on the street- perpetuating the cycle again and again. Black culture is simply a product of the environment that black kids were brought up in.
The only reason a black person would ever be frustrated with a white person is if the black person came from a terrible community, and or had no form of education. I can guarantee you that any middle class or upper class black person has no problem with the white neighbors. It is always the lower class fools.
as for whites not understanding blacks, i couldn't agree with you more. However enough is enough. it is common knowledge that this country was built on the backs of black people, and that slavery and the treatment of black people in the south a crime against humanity. the only problem with black people still carrying that baggage is that- i had nothing to do with it, my parents had nothing to do with it, and my kids most certainly will not have anything to do with it. The past should stay in the past, and frankly it's a huge copout when a black person pulls the slavery card. Because i can guarantee you that slavery has nothing to do with the modern day black persons plight.
Do minorities have it better than whites? Yes and no. It really depends on the minority that you ask. My friend from middle school is on a full ride to UW Madison- because her last name is Rameirez. Funny thing is, she is not hispanic. At the same time- If I a Midwestern white person would go to apply for a job on the coast- i can guarantee you that i would get the job over any white/black/pink/purple person.
Korea you live in Canada, have you ever been to Chicago? Milwaukee? Detroit? I go to school in Milwaukee the murder capitol of the Midwest (yes it has a higher murder rate than Chicago) and i can tell you from experience, that the biggest obstacle black people face- are themselves.
Well it certainly seems that white people are the only people who get in shit for being racist. At least you know you see all these comedians who use racist jokes and they're all not white, because if a white guy tries to pull stuff like that it just doesn't go over well.
obama is an exceptional case and individuals like him don't say much about the racism issue. i think the entire argument comes down to the fundamental definition of "racism."
Her racism = prejudice + power -> socioeconomic oppression disregards the fact that, afaik, there's no white policy-making institution actively trying to disadvantage any other race. Plus, society has developed to the point that such institutions would quickly be shot down by the media + public. I'm not denying the fact that there possibly exist pro-white-anti-black policies, but until she gives us some examples, I don't think she's allowed to spout off some theoretically sound bullshit her professor fed her. And, I'm anticipating all "anti-black" policies nowadays are actually more like "anti-poor-people" policies that aren't designed to target any specific race - in which case, it's not being racist, which was the point of her whole argument.
So sure, plenty of white people are in power. And white people can abuse their power to their benefit. But they aren't actively trying to discriminate against any race when doing so.
On October 28 2009 06:46 koreasilver wrote: When it comes to America I can understand the general frustration that many blacks may have because even now blacks are very marginalized by the system. Many whites may believe that minorities have it better than them because of some slight benefits that minorities may have, but that's just utterly retarded because many whites obviously don't realize how bad the prejudices against minorities are even to this day (most significantly, blacks). When I look into the history and society of America, whites seriously are to be blamed for the living standards of blacks, and the subsequent degenerative life that some blacks may be pushed into living. Obviously most people don't really look into it and give it a damn and find it easier to just simply blame the low level minorities of sucking the government of tax money, causing crime, and not working hard enough to become productive citizens. I'm not closely connected to any black communities so I don't really have an intimate idea of how some blacks may think of society and their position in it or how much beliefs may differ amongst themselves, but I can easily see how many, many blacks must be absolutely frustrated and angered at whites.
With all sincerity, most whites simply do not understand minorities. It might be annoying when people say that, but it's true. Whites really don't get it. So many whites think they solved their societal problems when it comes to race but they don't realize that under the surface shit is still really bad. If you really, really think minorities have it better than whites or even have it on par, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
edit: This doesn't really have to do with the racism discussion of this thread but the things some people have said in this thread just really annoyed me.
Sorry korea Im calling you on this.
Blacks are not marginalized by the system. Take my college experience- I had black friends who were accepted to a college when my other white friends who had higher GPA and SAT scores were denied. I know this as fact, because my black friend thought that it was rather funny and shared his scores with me. Affirmative action is a bitch, and frankly if you are a black person and can get out of college with a useful degree finding a job is not a problem.
Whites are not to be blamed for the living standards of blacks. The only thing that white people did many many years ago was red lining. However this is a thing of the past, and is certainly not carried on today. If you want to point the finger as to why many black people live in delapidated housing and in poor community's, the answer lies within the Kennedy and Clinton administration, along with the actions of the community members themselves.
Black people are never forced into that condition- it is simply a lack of education, and the lack of a strong family values. The black culture in America perpetuates the idea that the only way to succeed is to become a rapper, or a basket ball player. Education is never an option and being smart is not cool. The lack of appropriate values and the lack of parental teaching or proper morals is not in the typical black family. This is because of parents having children out of wedlock, incarcerated, dead, or having to work 2+ dead end jobs to try and make ends meet. It's no wonder why their kids end up on the street- perpetuating the cycle again and again. Black culture is simply a product of the environment that black kids were brought up in.
The only reason a black person would ever be frustrated with a white person is if the black person came from a terrible community, and or had no form of education. I can guarantee you that any middle class or upper class black person has no problem with the white neighbors. It is always the lower class fools.
as for whites not understanding blacks, i couldn't agree with you more. However enough is enough. it is common knowledge that this country was built on the backs of black people, and that slavery and the treatment of black people in the south a crime against humanity. the only problem with black people still carrying that baggage is that- i had nothing to do with it, my parents had nothing to do with it, and my kids most certainly will not have anything to do with it. The past should stay in the past, and frankly it's a huge copout when a black person pulls the slavery card. Because i can guarantee you that slavery has nothing to do with the modern day black persons plight.
Do minorities have it better than whites? Yes and no. It really depends on the minority that you ask. My friend from middle school is on a full ride to UW Madison- because her last name is Rameirez. Funny thing is, she is not hispanic. At the same time- If I a Midwestern white person would go to apply for a job on the coast- i can guarantee you that i would get the job over any white/black/pink/purple person.
Korea you live in Canada, have you ever been to Chicago? Milwaukee? Detroit? I go to school in Milwaukee the murder capitol of the Midwest (yes it has a higher murder rate than Chicago) and i can tell you from experience, that the biggest obstacle black people face- are themselves.
see i'd like to say this kind of stuff in class but I'd probably look like a huuuggee racist.
On October 28 2009 07:04 FabledIntegral wrote: My Asian American studies has said the same thing actually.
This is what I have in my current notes for the class "- Racism o In order to be racist, you have to have power. If you can’t implement a power, you can’t discriminate. Concerning institutional racism. o Racial prejudice is irrelevant if a person can’t convert that prejudice into action. Racism requires influences legislation or some enforced policy. Then only called racist (as the professor refers to it)."
Basically the definition of racist is different in the context he is using, aka institutional racism. If your'e going on the definition from dictionary.com, my professor is just... wrong.
Im not racist. I don't hold any ill will to black people, i am merely pointing out the problem. Notice how i didn't use any condescending language, and simply showed the points? If any one were to take that comment as racist- i would probably lol in their face. I work as a lifeguard in an inner city pool, and work with 100% minorities all summer. I get called racist for doing anything- when in reality it's the farthest thing from the truth. from my experience I have had minorities call me a racists as soon as i had to remind them of the rules, or enforce some of the pool rules. So really i think that most minorities have a convoluted sense of what it means to be racist. Your black girl in class especially.
On October 28 2009 06:46 koreasilver wrote: When it comes to America I can understand the general frustration that many blacks may have because even now blacks are very marginalized by the system. Many whites may believe that minorities have it better than them because of some slight benefits that minorities may have, but that's just utterly retarded because many whites obviously don't realize how bad the prejudices against minorities are even to this day (most significantly, blacks). When I look into the history and society of America, whites seriously are to be blamed for the living standards of blacks, and the subsequent degenerative life that some blacks may be pushed into living. Obviously most people don't really look into it and give it a damn and find it easier to just simply blame the low level minorities of sucking the government of tax money, causing crime, and not working hard enough to become productive citizens. I'm not closely connected to any black communities so I don't really have an intimate idea of how some blacks may think of society and their position in it or how much beliefs may differ amongst themselves, but I can easily see how many, many blacks must be absolutely frustrated and angered at whites.
With all sincerity, most whites simply do not understand minorities. It might be annoying when people say that, but it's true. Whites really don't get it. So many whites think they solved their societal problems when it comes to race but they don't realize that under the surface shit is still really bad. If you really, really think minorities have it better than whites or even have it on par, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
edit: This doesn't really have to do with the racism discussion of this thread but the things some people have said in this thread just really annoyed me.
lots of stuff
I'll reply to you sometime else. I have read a lot of scholarly articles that I will use as my credible sources for my arguments. I didn't want to say anything because I seriously did not want to be bothered to find all these articles again in my university library just to argue with a bunch of people on a starcraft forum. IDK. I seriously won't have time to write everything I want to until like December, and honestly, I find little to no reason to spend so much time to write something on a forum to people that I really don't care about all that much. Maybe I'll bump the thread after exams or something.
On October 28 2009 07:32 Misrah wrote: Im not racist. I don't hold any ill will to black people, i am merely pointing out the problem. Notice how i didn't use any condescending language, and simply showed the points? If any one were to take that comment as racist- i would probably lol in their face. I work as a lifeguard in an inner city pool, and work with 100% minorities all summer. I get called racist for doing anything- when in reality it's the farthest thing from the truth. from my experience I have had minorities call me a racists as soon as i had to remind them of the rules, or enforce some of the pool rules. So really i think that most minorities have a convoluted sense of what it means to be racist. Your black girl in class especially.
Yeah I'm not accusing you, I'm just saying that many people would call you racist if they heard you say these things.
Like you can't defend against these people without being condemned yourself.
On October 28 2009 07:04 FabledIntegral wrote: My Asian American studies has said the same thing actually.
This is what I have in my current notes for the class "- Racism o In order to be racist, you have to have power. If you can’t implement a power, you can’t discriminate. Concerning institutional racism. o Racial prejudice is irrelevant if a person can’t convert that prejudice into action. Racism requires influences legislation or some enforced policy. Then only called racist (as the professor refers to it)."
Basically the definition of racist is different in the context he is using, aka institutional racism. If your'e going on the definition from dictionary.com, my professor is just... wrong.
You just can't alter the common definition of racism and teach it to students and then send them back into the real world...
i don't see why people without power can't hold prejudices or discriminatory views. seeing as that's more or less all racism is, all people minorities or not can be racist.
to say that only white people can be institutionally racist gives minorities a "get out of jail free" card. any historically disenfranchised ethnicity can then claim that they're not being racist when they espouse prejudiced views. that seems rather ridiculous to me.
racism cannot be pinned onto a group of people. racism isn't inherent in a national, cultural, or ethnic identity. racism is a problem that rests within individual people, not with a group of people.
On October 28 2009 06:46 koreasilver wrote: When it comes to America I can understand the general frustration that many blacks may have because even now blacks are very marginalized by the system. Many whites may believe that minorities have it better than them because of some slight benefits that minorities may have, but that's just utterly retarded because many whites obviously don't realize how bad the prejudices against minorities are even to this day (most significantly, blacks). When I look into the history and society of America, whites seriously are to be blamed for the living standards of blacks, and the subsequent degenerative life that some blacks may be pushed into living. Obviously most people don't really look into it and give it a damn and find it easier to just simply blame the low level minorities of sucking the government of tax money, causing crime, and not working hard enough to become productive citizens. I'm not closely connected to any black communities so I don't really have an intimate idea of how some blacks may think of society and their position in it or how much beliefs may differ amongst themselves, but I can easily see how many, many blacks must be absolutely frustrated and angered at whites.
With all sincerity, most whites simply do not understand minorities. It might be annoying when people say that, but it's true. Whites really don't get it. So many whites think they solved their societal problems when it comes to race but they don't realize that under the surface shit is still really bad. If you really, really think minorities have it better than whites or even have it on par, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
edit: This doesn't really have to do with the racism discussion of this thread but the things some people have said in this thread just really annoyed me.
Sorry korea Im calling you on this.
Blacks are not marginalized by the system. Take my college experience- I had black friends who were accepted to a college when my other white friends who had higher GPA and SAT scores were denied. I know this as fact, because my black friend thought that it was rather funny and shared his scores with me. Affirmative action is a bitch, and frankly if you are a black person and can get out of college with a useful degree finding a job is not a problem.
Whites are not to be blamed for the living standards of blacks. The only thing that white people did many many years ago was red lining. However this is a thing of the past, and is certainly not carried on today. If you want to point the finger as to why many black people live in delapidated housing and in poor community's, the answer lies within the Kennedy and Clinton administration, along with the actions of the community members themselves.
Black people are never forced into that condition- it is simply a lack of education, and the lack of a strong family values. The black culture in America perpetuates the idea that the only way to succeed is to become a rapper, or a basket ball player. Education is never an option and being smart is not cool. The lack of appropriate values and the lack of parental teaching or proper morals is not in the typical black family. This is because of parents having children out of wedlock, incarcerated, dead, or having to work 2+ dead end jobs to try and make ends meet. It's no wonder why their kids end up on the street- perpetuating the cycle again and again. Black culture is simply a product of the environment that black kids were brought up in.
The only reason a black person would ever be frustrated with a white person is if the black person came from a terrible community, and or had no form of education. I can guarantee you that any middle class or upper class black person has no problem with the white neighbors. It is always the lower class fools.
as for whites not understanding blacks, i couldn't agree with you more. However enough is enough. it is common knowledge that this country was built on the backs of black people, and that slavery and the treatment of black people in the south a crime against humanity. the only problem with black people still carrying that baggage is that- i had nothing to do with it, my parents had nothing to do with it, and my kids most certainly will not have anything to do with it. The past should stay in the past, and frankly it's a huge copout when a black person pulls the slavery card. Because i can guarantee you that slavery has nothing to do with the modern day black persons plight.
Do minorities have it better than whites? Yes and no. It really depends on the minority that you ask. My friend from middle school is on a full ride to UW Madison- because her last name is Rameirez. Funny thing is, she is not hispanic. At the same time- If I a Midwestern white person would go to apply for a job on the coast- i can guarantee you that i would get the job over any white/black/pink/purple person.
Korea you live in Canada, have you ever been to Chicago? Milwaukee? Detroit? I go to school in Milwaukee the murder capitol of the Midwest (yes it has a higher murder rate than Chicago) and i can tell you from experience, that the biggest obstacle black people face- are themselves.
see i'd like to say this kind of stuff in class but I'd probably look like a huuuggee racist.
Surprisingly I think some of what Misrah says is true, but it should be put in more appropriate context.
Given the fact that racism was embedded in laws (segregation and such) as recently as the 1960s (and many people probably remained significantly racist long after that) it is not surprising that African communities developed issues. Poor communities always have problems like we see with many african american communities today, and it is not suprising that many individuals struggle to escape the vicious circle Misrah mentions when we bear in mind how long they have been extant, and how much culture has developed around their existence.
But yeah I agree - the blaming of white oppression for current issues isn't going to help anyone and is mostly done by idiots. Yes, problems today arguably in large part the result of past oppression which was performed by caucasions, but as Misrah says those people are not alive today and current white americans have nothing to do with them.
As to eMbrace - given the established fact that the people in your class are (probably) idiots, you've done well keeping it to yourself :p , but if you put it in the appropriate context (community problems which became so bad as to become strongly self perpetuating, but originated as the result of unfortunate historical circumstances such as slavery) it shouldn't sound racist to reasonable (and not idiotic) listeners.
This is not to say I think blacks in america are no longer adversely affected by racism (how could I know? I haven't been everywhere and seen everything), but rather, I acknowledge there are other factors which keep poor communities poor.
On October 28 2009 06:46 koreasilver wrote: When it comes to America I can understand the general frustration that many blacks may have because even now blacks are very marginalized by the system. Many whites may believe that minorities have it better than them because of some slight benefits that minorities may have, but that's just utterly retarded because many whites obviously don't realize how bad the prejudices against minorities are even to this day (most significantly, blacks). When I look into the history and society of America, whites seriously are to be blamed for the living standards of blacks, and the subsequent degenerative life that some blacks may be pushed into living. Obviously most people don't really look into it and give it a damn and find it easier to just simply blame the low level minorities of sucking the government of tax money, causing crime, and not working hard enough to become productive citizens. I'm not closely connected to any black communities so I don't really have an intimate idea of how some blacks may think of society and their position in it or how much beliefs may differ amongst themselves, but I can easily see how many, many blacks must be absolutely frustrated and angered at whites.
With all sincerity, most whites simply do not understand minorities. It might be annoying when people say that, but it's true. Whites really don't get it. So many whites think they solved their societal problems when it comes to race but they don't realize that under the surface shit is still really bad. If you really, really think minorities have it better than whites or even have it on par, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
edit: This doesn't really have to do with the racism discussion of this thread but the things some people have said in this thread just really annoyed me.
Sorry korea Im calling you on this.
Blacks are not marginalized by the system. Take my college experience- I had black friends who were accepted to a college when my other white friends who had higher GPA and SAT scores were denied. I know this as fact, because my black friend thought that it was rather funny and shared his scores with me. Affirmative action is a bitch, and frankly if you are a black person and can get out of college with a useful degree finding a job is not a problem.
Whites are not to be blamed for the living standards of blacks. The only thing that white people did many many years ago was red lining. However this is a thing of the past, and is certainly not carried on today. If you want to point the finger as to why many black people live in delapidated housing and in poor community's, the answer lies within the Kennedy and Clinton administration, along with the actions of the community members themselves.
Black people are never forced into that condition- it is simply a lack of education, and the lack of a strong family values. The black culture in America perpetuates the idea that the only way to succeed is to become a rapper, or a basket ball player. Education is never an option and being smart is not cool. The lack of appropriate values and the lack of parental teaching or proper morals is not in the typical black family. This is because of parents having children out of wedlock, incarcerated, dead, or having to work 2+ dead end jobs to try and make ends meet. It's no wonder why their kids end up on the street- perpetuating the cycle again and again. Black culture is simply a product of the environment that black kids were brought up in.
The only reason a black person would ever be frustrated with a white person is if the black person came from a terrible community, and or had no form of education. I can guarantee you that any middle class or upper class black person has no problem with the white neighbors. It is always the lower class fools.
as for whites not understanding blacks, i couldn't agree with you more. However enough is enough. it is common knowledge that this country was built on the backs of black people, and that slavery and the treatment of black people in the south a crime against humanity. the only problem with black people still carrying that baggage is that- i had nothing to do with it, my parents had nothing to do with it, and my kids most certainly will not have anything to do with it. The past should stay in the past, and frankly it's a huge copout when a black person pulls the slavery card. Because i can guarantee you that slavery has nothing to do with the modern day black persons plight.
Do minorities have it better than whites? Yes and no. It really depends on the minority that you ask. My friend from middle school is on a full ride to UW Madison- because her last name is Rameirez. Funny thing is, she is not hispanic. At the same time- If I a Midwestern white person would go to apply for a job on the coast- i can guarantee you that i would get the job over any white/black/pink/purple person.
Korea you live in Canada, have you ever been to Chicago? Milwaukee? Detroit? I go to school in Milwaukee the murder capitol of the Midwest (yes it has a higher murder rate than Chicago) and i can tell you from experience, that the biggest obstacle black people face- are themselves.
As a white man living in a middle class city in NY that has a 50-50 split between white/black. I must say I always found it odd that black people I went to school with seem to be upset that they are not poorer. There really is something in the black community that makes a vast majority of them want to grow up to be a gangster. These are not uneducated kids or from broken homes mind you. These are middle class black children that seem to want to return too a life of hardship and violence for whatever reason. It really is rather fascinating when I think about.
Lol, that black studies teacher has a made up definition of racism.
Racism is discriminating against someone based on their race just like sexism is discrimination based on sex. And lol at him assuming only white people has power in today's society(since he says only white ppl are racist) as the United States just got a new president and considering how many big name Hollywood producers and actors are black(there's quite a few big name CEOs as well) and more than half of the hip-hop, and rap industry that are run by black people.
It just seems to me like he didn't get where he wanted to in life, and so he's using the colour of his skin as an excuse. Anyone can be racist and to teach his students that because they are black, they have an immunity from being a racist(irony), makes your prof. a racist douche.
BTW, when a group of minority people insinuate a white person is treating them unfairly based on colour, the white person's reputation will drop like a rock and people will isolate him(I think that's power).
On a semi-related note on discrimination, I hate it when "ganstas" and rappers hate on police officers because they go after them. If you are gonna dress like a gangster, when being a gangster is illegal, and when gangsters often play a hand in drugs, guns, and violence, I'd want the police on your ass as well. If you don't want to be discriminated by the police, the first step is to stop dressing like a fcking criminal. I know some police are just horrible, but police on black people discrimination will decrease a lot when some people stop dressing like they're about to sell some coke.
On October 28 2009 06:46 koreasilver wrote: When it comes to America I can understand the general frustration that many blacks may have because even now blacks are very marginalized by the system. Many whites may believe that minorities have it better than them because of some slight benefits that minorities may have, but that's just utterly retarded because many whites obviously don't realize how bad the prejudices against minorities are even to this day (most significantly, blacks). When I look into the history and society of America, whites seriously are to be blamed for the living standards of blacks, and the subsequent degenerative life that some blacks may be pushed into living. Obviously most people don't really look into it and give it a damn and find it easier to just simply blame the low level minorities of sucking the government of tax money, causing crime, and not working hard enough to become productive citizens. I'm not closely connected to any black communities so I don't really have an intimate idea of how some blacks may think of society and their position in it or how much beliefs may differ amongst themselves, but I can easily see how many, many blacks must be absolutely frustrated and angered at whites.
With all sincerity, most whites simply do not understand minorities. It might be annoying when people say that, but it's true. Whites really don't get it. So many whites think they solved their societal problems when it comes to race but they don't realize that under the surface shit is still really bad. If you really, really think minorities have it better than whites or even have it on par, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
edit: This doesn't really have to do with the racism discussion of this thread but the things some people have said in this thread just really annoyed me.
Sorry korea Im calling you on this.
Blacks are not marginalized by the system. Take my college experience- I had black friends who were accepted to a college when my other white friends who had higher GPA and SAT scores were denied. I know this as fact, because my black friend thought that it was rather funny and shared his scores with me. Affirmative action is a bitch, and frankly if you are a black person and can get out of college with a useful degree finding a job is not a problem.
Whites are not to be blamed for the living standards of blacks. The only thing that white people did many many years ago was red lining. However this is a thing of the past, and is certainly not carried on today. If you want to point the finger as to why many black people live in delapidated housing and in poor community's, the answer lies within the Kennedy and Clinton administration, along with the actions of the community members themselves.
Black people are never forced into that condition- it is simply a lack of education, and the lack of a strong family values. The black culture in America perpetuates the idea that the only way to succeed is to become a rapper, or a basket ball player. Education is never an option and being smart is not cool. The lack of appropriate values and the lack of parental teaching or proper morals is not in the typical black family. This is because of parents having children out of wedlock, incarcerated, dead, or having to work 2+ dead end jobs to try and make ends meet. It's no wonder why their kids end up on the street- perpetuating the cycle again and again. Black culture is simply a product of the environment that black kids were brought up in.
The only reason a black person would ever be frustrated with a white person is if the black person came from a terrible community, and or had no form of education. I can guarantee you that any middle class or upper class black person has no problem with the white neighbors. It is always the lower class fools.
as for whites not understanding blacks, i couldn't agree with you more. However enough is enough. it is common knowledge that this country was built on the backs of black people, and that slavery and the treatment of black people in the south a crime against humanity. the only problem with black people still carrying that baggage is that- i had nothing to do with it, my parents had nothing to do with it, and my kids most certainly will not have anything to do with it. The past should stay in the past, and frankly it's a huge copout when a black person pulls the slavery card. Because i can guarantee you that slavery has nothing to do with the modern day black persons plight.
Do minorities have it better than whites? Yes and no. It really depends on the minority that you ask. My friend from middle school is on a full ride to UW Madison- because her last name is Rameirez. Funny thing is, she is not hispanic. At the same time- If I a Midwestern white person would go to apply for a job on the coast- i can guarantee you that i would get the job over any white/black/pink/purple person.
Korea you live in Canada, have you ever been to Chicago? Milwaukee? Detroit? I go to school in Milwaukee the murder capitol of the Midwest (yes it has a higher murder rate than Chicago) and i can tell you from experience, that the biggest obstacle black people face- are themselves.
As a white man living in a middle class city in NY that has a 50-50 split between white/black. I must say I always found it odd that black people I went to school with seem to be upset that they are not poorer. There really is something in the black community that makes a vast majority of them want to grow up to be a gangster. These are not uneducated kids or from broken homes mind you. These are middle class black children that seem to want to return too a life of hardship and violence for whatever reason. It really is rather fascinating when I think about.
I don't think they'd feel that way if confronted with the genuine reality. I think it's just that the 'ideal' of the gangster/pimp has become embedded in much of black american culture. Possibly because these were the first kinds of people to exhibit (or rather, flaunt for all to see) money and power in poor communities where life was rough. Then it just exploded in a weird cultural phenomenon. Kind of like how poker caught on in the sc community! :p
On October 28 2009 06:46 koreasilver wrote: When it comes to America I can understand the general frustration that many blacks may have because even now blacks are very marginalized by the system. Many whites may believe that minorities have it better than them because of some slight benefits that minorities may have, but that's just utterly retarded because many whites obviously don't realize how bad the prejudices against minorities are even to this day (most significantly, blacks). When I look into the history and society of America, whites seriously are to be blamed for the living standards of blacks, and the subsequent degenerative life that some blacks may be pushed into living. Obviously most people don't really look into it and give it a damn and find it easier to just simply blame the low level minorities of sucking the government of tax money, causing crime, and not working hard enough to become productive citizens. I'm not closely connected to any black communities so I don't really have an intimate idea of how some blacks may think of society and their position in it or how much beliefs may differ amongst themselves, but I can easily see how many, many blacks must be absolutely frustrated and angered at whites.
With all sincerity, most whites simply do not understand minorities. It might be annoying when people say that, but it's true. Whites really don't get it. So many whites think they solved their societal problems when it comes to race but they don't realize that under the surface shit is still really bad. If you really, really think minorities have it better than whites or even have it on par, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
edit: This doesn't really have to do with the racism discussion of this thread but the things some people have said in this thread just really annoyed me.
Sorry korea Im calling you on this.
Blacks are not marginalized by the system. Take my college experience- I had black friends who were accepted to a college when my other white friends who had higher GPA and SAT scores were denied. I know this as fact, because my black friend thought that it was rather funny and shared his scores with me. Affirmative action is a bitch, and frankly if you are a black person and can get out of college with a useful degree finding a job is not a problem.
Whites are not to be blamed for the living standards of blacks. The only thing that white people did many many years ago was red lining. However this is a thing of the past, and is certainly not carried on today. If you want to point the finger as to why many black people live in delapidated housing and in poor community's, the answer lies within the Kennedy and Clinton administration, along with the actions of the community members themselves.
Black people are never forced into that condition- it is simply a lack of education, and the lack of a strong family values. The black culture in America perpetuates the idea that the only way to succeed is to become a rapper, or a basket ball player. Education is never an option and being smart is not cool. The lack of appropriate values and the lack of parental teaching or proper morals is not in the typical black family. This is because of parents having children out of wedlock, incarcerated, dead, or having to work 2+ dead end jobs to try and make ends meet. It's no wonder why their kids end up on the street- perpetuating the cycle again and again. Black culture is simply a product of the environment that black kids were brought up in.
The only reason a black person would ever be frustrated with a white person is if the black person came from a terrible community, and or had no form of education. I can guarantee you that any middle class or upper class black person has no problem with the white neighbors. It is always the lower class fools.
as for whites not understanding blacks, i couldn't agree with you more. However enough is enough. it is common knowledge that this country was built on the backs of black people, and that slavery and the treatment of black people in the south a crime against humanity. the only problem with black people still carrying that baggage is that- i had nothing to do with it, my parents had nothing to do with it, and my kids most certainly will not have anything to do with it. The past should stay in the past, and frankly it's a huge copout when a black person pulls the slavery card. Because i can guarantee you that slavery has nothing to do with the modern day black persons plight.
Do minorities have it better than whites? Yes and no. It really depends on the minority that you ask. My friend from middle school is on a full ride to UW Madison- because her last name is Rameirez. Funny thing is, she is not hispanic. At the same time- If I a Midwestern white person would go to apply for a job on the coast- i can guarantee you that i would get the job over any white/black/pink/purple person.
Korea you live in Canada, have you ever been to Chicago? Milwaukee? Detroit? I go to school in Milwaukee the murder capitol of the Midwest (yes it has a higher murder rate than Chicago) and i can tell you from experience, that the biggest obstacle black people face- are themselves.
As a white man living in a middle class city in NY that has a 50-50 split between white/black. I must say I always found it odd that black people I went to school with seem to be upset that they are not poorer. There really is something in the black community that makes a vast majority of them want to grow up to be a gangster. These are not uneducated kids or from broken homes mind you. These are middle class black children that seem to want to return too a life of hardship and violence for whatever reason. It really is rather fascinating when I think about.
I don't think they'd feel that way if confronted with the genuine reality. I think it's just that the 'ideal' of the gangster/pimp has become embedded in much of black american culture. Possibly because these were the first kinds of people to exhibit (or rather, flaunt for all to see) money and power in poor communities where life was rough. Then it just exploded in a weird cultural phenomenon. Kind of like how poker caught on in the sc community! :p
i tried to start a pokerstars account but they want a picture of driver's license
Main Entry: rac·ism Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\ Function: noun Date: 1933
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
— rac·ist \-sist also -shist\ noun or adjective
it doesn't matter if someone is a minority, there are no qualifications to being a racist other than being capable of thinking for one's self.
Too much of the typical white response is ignorant in this thread I believe - maybe you have an advantage getting into college - that's about it.
I have a lot more to write on this, but most white people haven't been bitched out or had their shit kicked on the ground on the sole basis of race. In class now, but the white perspective on the matter is absolutely ... uninformed.
On October 28 2009 08:40 FabledIntegral wrote: Too much of the typical white response is ignorant in this thread I believe - maybe you have an advantage getting into college - that's about it.
I have a lot more to write on this, but most white people haven't been bitched out or had their shit kicked on the ground on the sole basis of race. In class now, but the white perspective on the matter is absolutely ... uninformed.
I don't think the average black guy is getting his ass kicked by neo nazis on a daily basis ...
On October 28 2009 06:30 Caller wrote: i dont even understand why racism is a bad thing
people are racist against everybody, even subconsciously.
we gotta just accept that people are racist just like we accept that people are different
we don't have to support racism, but saying that a specific group of people is racist is in itself racist. For instance, one could argue that blacks in the LA riots were racist against the Koreans, because they had a power advantage over them and targeted them. This is the type of stupid, circular argument that is purely used to shut down freedom of speech.
Wrong about the LA Riots.
On March 3, 1991, Rodney King and two passengers were driving west on the Foothill Freeway and were apprehended by four members of the Los Angeles Police Department after he led them in a high-speed pursuit of speeds exceeding 120 mph through freeways, then residential neighbordhoods. King was tackled, tasered, and heavily beaten with clubs by the officers. The incident was captured on camcorder by Argentine George Holliday from his apartment in the vicinity, although the first few minutes of the incident, during which police later claimed King was resisting arrest, were not filmed. (police were white)
On March 16 1991, Latasha Harlins was seen putting a bottle of orange juice in the tip of her backpack. Du observed this action by Harlins and thought she was attempting to steal but did not see the money in Latasha's hand. Du attempted to grab Harlins by the sweater and snatched her backpack. Harlins then struck Du three times, knocking Du to the ground. After Harlins backed away Du then threw a stool at her. Latasha then picked up the orange juice that dropped during the scuffle put it on the counter and turned to leave. Du reached under the counter to retrieve a handgun. Du then fired at Harlins from behind and shot her in the back of her head, then fainted. Du's husband, Billy Heung Ki Du, heard the shot and rushed into the store. After speaking to his wife, who falsely said she had been robbed, he dialed 9-1-1 to report the shooting. Paramedics soon arrived, but Harlins was dead, her two dollars still in her left hand. Du testified on her own behalf, stating that it was self-defense and that her life was in danger, but her words were contradicted by the statements of the two witnesses present at the time and the security camera footage, which showed her shooting Harlins in the back of the head as the 15 year-old girl was attempting to leave the store. Du was convicted of voluntary manslaughter and was subsequently sentenced to five years probation, four hundred hours of community service, and a $500.00 fine. The sentence was decided by Judge Joyce Karlin. The jury in Du's trial had recommended a 16-year prison sentence.
On October 28 2009 08:40 FabledIntegral wrote: Too much of the typical white response is ignorant in this thread I believe - maybe you have an advantage getting into college - that's about it.
I have a lot more to write on this, but most white people haven't been bitched out or had their shit kicked on the ground on the sole basis of race. In class now, but the white perspective on the matter is absolutely ... uninformed.
In a sociological context racism is defined differently than in everyday usage. Racism is 'the race with the most power being privileged over others', or 'taking advantage of a system advantageous to them'. So while minorities can discriminate against white people, only white discrimination can have a 'racist' label attached to it.
Anyway, that's what my friends tell me. Luckily I'm in science so I don't have to care LOL
On October 28 2009 09:14 DeathSpank wrote: so this thread has accomplished what exactly? I feel stupider with every post I read. It's like a troll orgy.
On October 28 2009 09:14 DeathSpank wrote: so this thread has accomplished what exactly? I feel stupider with every post I read. It's like a troll orgy.
Or you simply don't understand what is being said. Silly naive.
On October 28 2009 09:14 DeathSpank wrote: so this thread has accomplished what exactly? I feel stupider with every post I read. It's like a troll orgy.
It's accomplished discussion, which as the creator of this blog is all I wanted.
I thought there were quite a few intelligent posts made, but if they are making you stupider, then by all means keep away from this thread, you'll merely confuse us with your amazingly deep contribution.
On October 28 2009 09:28 lazz wrote: i dont mind that non-whites have obviously advantages due to affirmative action.
Being white is fucking baller
rofl, the "obvious" advantages of affirmative action are meaningless in the face of white supremacy prevalent in society as a whole.
korea, if you still have time to come back and say stuff like this, then you could at least put time aside to give at least one brief example of why you feel being a minority is a living hell that no white person can understand.
Here, I found one of the articles that I saved into my computer since I found it off my university's online data sources.
... schools are more segregated than 30 years ago, with more than 80% of African-American schools facing concentrated levels of poverty. When understanding the US system of school funding depending on the economic prosperity of the district, it is sufficient to say that African-American schools are not only segregated but continue to be highly unequal. It is therefore not surprising that with limited resources and poor quality teaching, the students are performing in general below standards. However, lower educational quality and achievement will directly and indirectly again keep African-Americans in place, as those being able to only achieve lesser levels of education and find less prestigious jobs will, as a consequence, perpetuate for whites and unfortunately some African-Americans the biases and negative images surrounding African-American people. Furthermore, the draw back of affirmative action and the allowance of segregated and therefore unequal schools for African-Americans are clear indicators of the deteriorating situation for the African-American underclass and an increasingly difficult situation for middle class African-Americans, as society and its sociological structures seems in direct and indirect terms to further and further limit their opportunities and upward mobility.
The question that girl posed in your class is so stupid that it doesn't even warrant discussion. Anyone can be racist. period. I think having these discussions and dwelling on race so much only perpetuates racism.
I think the best way to eliminate racism and discrimination would be if the government forced every citizen to chill with people of other races. They would learn that people of any race can be cool. I'm so exhausted talking about race...we don't need to talk about race...our society has advanced to the stage that a talented minority will almost never be stopped from succeeding. Let's just give this discussion a rest.
asians dominate my university, with im guessing between one third and one half of the people here being asian. it is incredibly fobby here. alot of brown ppl as well. you guys remember the how to dress like an asian guy thread? you should just come to my uni.. they dominated the highschool i went to as well, with probably well over half being asian. super fobby as well; seriously you heard more canto, mando and korean in the hallways than english. strange that there are no japanese people. but only like 10% of the city's population is asian it is imo actually more socially advantageous to be asian at my uni than to be white. i have no idea why there isn't a bubble tea cafe at my uni, everyone craves bubble tea why is there no bubble tea wtf
On October 28 2009 09:53 blue_arrow wrote: asians dominate my university, with im guessing between one third and one half of the people here being asian. it is incredibly fobby here. alot of brown ppl as well. you guys remember the how to dress like an asian guy thread? you should just come to my uni.. they dominated the highschool i went to as well, with probably well over half being asian. super fobby as well; seriously you heard more canto, mando and korean in the hallways than english. strange that there are no japanese people. but only like 10% of the city's population is asian it is imo actually more socially advantageous to be asian at my uni than to be white. i have no idea why there isn't a bubble tea cafe at my uni, everyone craves bubble tea why is there no bubble tea wtf
thats coz all the asians in your uni. got owned by "counter-affirmative action" for elite universities (top Ivies plus Stanford...not so much MIT and Caltech..what can they do without asians?). In my aforementioned so-called elite school, asians are indeed the glaring minority
Ok well for this particular case you would be better off saying, "most white people" don't understand this type of situation, as there are indeed poor white people who grow up in identical situations and go to the schools like the one the article mentions.
if you are born into a community like that, no matter what race you are -- you are in for a tough childhood.
is it really a grand conspiracy by powerful white people who all want to keep the black man down in poverty so they can't become educated?
perhaps, or is it just our government's failure to fix a not so easy situation that many modern countries face as well? what if the government fixed up a school real nice (like it was for white kids, right?), would this change the environment it's placed in? i don't feel that it would. I don't feel that kids would suddenly treat school differently-- not even suburban white kids feel their education is important until their parents get on their ass in highschool.
blacks and hispanics continue to show the worst testing results in quality public schools as well -- while asians and indians show higher results than the white population (this is where the stereotypes come from).
which is why a well-educated black or latino has a world of opportunity made for them.
i'm not saying it is their skin color that's holding them back, otherwise I'd be a racist 0_o -- but there is a history behind the culture of many black people that has led to these problems, and while a big one is the discrimination felt in the past -- it is not the ultimate excuse for not being successful.
the problem is the poor community, where everyone (many of your own race) is indirectly dragging you down.
basically, if I was going to be born into a shit neighborhood -- I'd rather be a minority than a majority.
On October 28 2009 10:13 eMbrace wrote: basically, if I was going to be born into a shit neighborhood -- I'd rather be a minority than a majority.
You can't just insert yourself into different roles and assume you would be the same person. If you were in a shit neighborhood maybe you would get into drugs younger or maybe nobody would ever hold you accountable. In a bad environment a person doesn't reach nearly their potential. All the potential in the world means absolutely dick if it is never realized.
Every Black man or woman in the US has blood relations to slavery. I do not call them African American because they are not African. They were forcefully extracted from Africa, and forced to work as slaves in the NEW WORLD. Now, they remain in the White Man's World on Red Man's Soil. Do they have less power than the rulers? Necessarily so.
Q:What do they call the despotism of warlords in Ethiopia? A: They don't.
Ironically, in the US blacks still call each other "nigger"- affectionately no less!
It would be fairly difficult for any group to build itself up after being enslaved for that long. We only learn cutesy anecdotes from the history of Blacks in America for the same reason we only learn cutesy anecdotes about Whites in Native America- it's a sad state of affairs and "the man" would prefer that you remain oblivious since it's a lot easier for him to control those who make victims of themselves and are full of hate.
On October 28 2009 09:53 blue_arrow wrote: asians dominate my university, with im guessing between one third and one half of the people here being asian. it is incredibly fobby here. alot of brown ppl as well. you guys remember the how to dress like an asian guy thread? you should just come to my uni.. they dominated the highschool i went to as well, with probably well over half being asian. super fobby as well; seriously you heard more canto, mando and korean in the hallways than english. strange that there are no japanese people. but only like 10% of the city's population is asian it is imo actually more socially advantageous to be asian at my uni than to be white. i have no idea why there isn't a bubble tea cafe at my uni, everyone craves bubble tea why is there no bubble tea wtf
Are you aware the UC system in California is heavily racist against Asians? They are constantly changing measures in order to get less Asians in the system and more whites. Most Asian minorities LITERALLY just work harder than whites on average in terms of educations.
Also (this part isn't fact but merely from what I recall), I believe affirmative action does not currently apply to Asians applying to university. Asians and whites are excluded from affirmative action, the rest are included. I remember reading it somewhere, as I'm Asian and I was looking into it when applying, although my memory could be wrong.
On October 28 2009 05:38 TheAntZ wrote: White people hardly are racist anymore, black people are the most racist people in the world now.
I wonder what happens if someone actually says that out loud in front of everyone.
I would personally laud him for his courage and honesty.
Absolutely. If this exact wording hit my head while discussing it in similar circumstances i couldve gotten carried away and said it, i love how strong this statement is.
On October 28 2009 07:16 Divinek wrote: Well it certainly seems that white people are the only people who get in shit for being racist. At least you know you see all these comedians who use racist jokes and they're all not white, because if a white guy tries to pull stuff like that it just doesn't go over well.
On October 28 2009 10:04 lazz wrote: you in australia blue arrow?
nope, it's a canadian uni (not in BC or Ontario either, and also not Waterloo, which kind of makes it weird. hmm, now that i think about it waterloo doesn't really have a lot of 'fobby' asians, just alot of 'nerdy' asians, you know, the types that are really quiet and do really good academically and are mostly in sciences or engineering or something. also, you'd be surprised at the range of academic abilities that can be found amogst the 'fobby' asians.)
On October 28 2009 10:05 phosphorylation wrote: + Show Spoiler +
On October 28 2009 09:53 blue_arrow wrote: asians dominate my university, with im guessing between one third and one half of the people here being asian. it is incredibly fobby here. alot of brown ppl as well. you guys remember the how to dress like an asian guy thread? you should just come to my uni.. they dominated the highschool i went to as well, with probably well over half being asian. super fobby as well; seriously you heard more canto, mando and korean in the hallways than english. strange that there are no japanese people. but only like 10% of the city's population is asian it is imo actually more socially advantageous to be asian at my uni than to be white. i have no idea why there isn't a bubble tea cafe at my uni, everyone craves bubble tea why is there no bubble tea wtf
thats coz all the asians in your uni. got owned by "counter-affirmative action" for elite universities (top Ivies plus Stanford...not so much MIT and Caltech..what can they do without asians?). In my aforementioned so-called elite school, asians are indeed the glaring minority
not to be racist or anything (LOL), but shouldnt counter-affirmative action make it so that there are alot of asians at 'elite universities'?? (from my personal experience, there is a definite correlation between being asian and doing well academically). Also, i don't know about the USA, but here in canada most of my highschool friends (~60%) left our hometown and home uni, and went off to top canadian universities to spread the asian domination. the asians that stayed here either A) didn't meet the academic requirements (that are equal for everyone; usually english courses are the problem rofl [again, not being racist, it's just the course that asians do statistically have the most trouble with (i wonder why, lol..)]), B) parents wanted them to stay to save money C) got ridiculous scholarship monies that were too good to reject (my school's asian valedictorian falls under this category).
On October 28 2009 09:53 blue_arrow wrote: asians dominate my university, with im guessing between one third and one half of the people here being asian. it is incredibly fobby here. alot of brown ppl as well. you guys remember the how to dress like an asian guy thread? you should just come to my uni.. they dominated the highschool i went to as well, with probably well over half being asian. super fobby as well; seriously you heard more canto, mando and korean in the hallways than english. strange that there are no japanese people. but only like 10% of the city's population is asian it is imo actually more socially advantageous to be asian at my uni than to be white. i have no idea why there isn't a bubble tea cafe at my uni, everyone craves bubble tea why is there no bubble tea wtf
Are you aware the UC system in California is heavily racist against Asians? They are constantly changing measures in order to get less Asians in the system and more whites. Most Asian minorities LITERALLY just work harder than whites on average in terms of educations.
Also (this part isn't fact but merely from what I recall), I believe affirmative action does not currently apply to Asians applying to university. Asians and whites are excluded from affirmative action, the rest are included. I remember reading it somewhere, as I'm Asian and I was looking into it when applying, although my memory could be wrong.
damn, that sucks for californian asians, you should come to canada or something. also from my experience in travelling to california, the asians there are a lot less fobby than their canadian counterparts. their inner fobs have been suppressed, immigrate to the fruitcake that is canada and free yourself from the American melting pot! become the fob that you were meant to be =o also i'm pretty sure that canadian universities don't take affirmative action either, otherwise waterloo and the University of a Billion Chinese wouldn't exist. (these two schools are pretty tops in canada btw, espeically waterloo)
EDIT: oh yeah, also racism here in canada isn't as intense as in the states i guess, cause people here seem to not really care as much/not fear the possible consequences as much/are just completely use to the diversity in ethnicity. i guess white people here do get more uncomfortable/act more awkwardly when topics about diversity are brought up though... (they get more uncomfortable than browns or blacks or asians is what i mean; maybe cause they themselves have accepted an idea of whites being the most racist, and thus fear being called racist in case they say something 'wrong' [hmm, i guess this is the reason why whites get so uncomfortable, because whites will probably be called racist for saying something that would've been considered un-racist when spoken by a minority. anyone remember that piece of news about a white teacher calling a black student 'nigga' because he say that that was what other blacks called each other?]) yeah, here in canada, we are realtively un-nationalistic when compared to other first world western nations, and people wonder if it is because of the distinct and untouched multiculturalism.
Well this certainly used to be "true" in the colonial ages.
And even if it's true nowadays, racism is only one kind of prejudice. Hating people because of their religion, or because of their nationality or their social status are bigger issues.
Pure idiocy, any one can be racist. I'm asian and if I start my own company and decide not to hire someone because of their race that sounds like racism to me.
I kind of see her point, but I think only white people can discriminate makes more sense than only white people can be racist.
As in, a few years ago, a guy sued a bar holding a lady's night free drinks night for sexual discrimination, only guy shouldn't be able to sue for discrimination.
On October 28 2009 11:41 igotmyown wrote: I kind of see her point, but I think only white people can discriminate makes more sense than only white people can be racist.
No that makes less sense because "discriminating" is much broader than "being racist".
On October 28 2009 08:40 FabledIntegral wrote: Too much of the typical white response is ignorant in this thread I believe - maybe you have an advantage getting into college - that's about it.
I have a lot more to write on this, but most white people haven't been bitched out or had their shit kicked on the ground on the sole basis of race. In class now, but the white perspective on the matter is absolutely ... uninformed.
So you perfectly know how it is for a white guy to walk into a black store in a black part of town late at night? Shut your trap lol. You never experienced anything threatening besides your schoolmates clowning on your weak ass, dont make yourself a martyr. Nowadays you can easily get your ass whooped for being a "whiteboy". Who else is afraid to walk through a "wrong" part of town solely cuz of their skin color? Dont ever say that someone cant understand how you feel since hes white, this is whats really ignorant. Ive only been in this country for 5 years and ive seen every side of this already.
On October 28 2009 09:41 koreasilver wrote: Here, I found one of the articles that I saved into my computer since I found it off my university's online data sources.
... schools are more segregated than 30 years ago, with more than 80% of African-American schools facing concentrated levels of poverty. When understanding the US system of school funding depending on the economic prosperity of the district, it is sufficient to say that African-American schools are not only segregated but continue to be highly unequal. It is therefore not surprising that with limited resources and poor quality teaching, the students are performing in general below standards. However, lower educational quality and achievement will directly and indirectly again keep African-Americans in place, as those being able to only achieve lesser levels of education and find less prestigious jobs will, as a consequence, perpetuate for whites and unfortunately some African-Americans the biases and negative images surrounding African-American people. Furthermore, the draw back of affirmative action and the allowance of segregated and therefore unequal schools for African-Americans are clear indicators of the deteriorating situation for the African-American underclass and an increasingly difficult situation for middle class African-Americans, as society and its sociological structures seems in direct and indirect terms to further and further limit their opportunities and upward mobility.
Spending more money on a school generally has almost nothing to do with the average scores that the school cranks out, and it's ridiculous that people insist on always making these comparisons. The district of columbia spends more money per student than any other school district in the country and still produces some of the most abysmal results.
Have you ever even been to a minority dominated school? The money isn't the problem, it's the culture that the students come from. It's been said before. Low class cultures simply don't value education, regardless of race. I know several people who have been teaching in the San Bernardino school system for years, and every single one of them has been totally burned out. They pour their hearts into trying to educate these kids year after year after year, and a significant portion of them still can't even read by the time they're teenagers. Are you saying that because their budget is a certain percentage below the budget of the neighboring (white) school districts that they lack the funds necessary to teach the students how to read?
All the money in the world can only lead the horse to water...
there are different kinds of racism systematic racism can only be done by the race with most power, which happens to be whites in all western countries
on an individual level, anyone can be racist
the word racism can mean both the discrimination of people based on ethnicity and prejudice held against people based on ethnicity and the belief that one ethnicity is superior or inferior to other ethnicities. the latter two can occur in any place, but blacks are not in the same position as whites when it comes to discriminating against the other.
On October 28 2009 09:41 koreasilver wrote: ... schools are more segregated than 30 years ago, with more than 80% of African-American schools facing concentrated levels of poverty. When understanding the US system of school funding depending on the economic prosperity of the district, it is sufficient to say that African-American schools are not only segregated but continue to be highly unequal. It is therefore not surprising that with limited resources and poor quality teaching, the students are performing in general below standards. However, lower educational quality and achievement will directly and indirectly again keep African-Americans in place, as those being able to only achieve lesser levels of education and find less prestigious jobs will, as a consequence, perpetuate for whites and unfortunately some African-Americans the biases and negative images surrounding African-American people. Furthermore, the draw back of affirmative action and the allowance of segregated and therefore unequal schools for African-Americans are clear indicators of the deteriorating situation for the African-American underclass and an increasingly difficult situation for middle class African-Americans, as society and its sociological structures seems in direct and indirect terms to further and further limit their opportunities and upward mobility.
This is another bright example of what the black chick in OP was stating. Article ignores so many things its ridiculous. A lot of black people live in poor districts thus going to schools with bad funding. Again, many people that attend there are so ignorant and careless for education none of those schools can be successfully renovated and well maintained. Obviously with that level of education you cannot get a decent job and its true for anyone; if anything an employer expects less from a black to begin with thus lowering the hiring standard( call it racism but fuck, 90% of them wouldnt get a competitive job otherwise)
On October 28 2009 11:56 Liquid`Drone wrote: there are different kinds of racism systematic racism can only be done by the race with most power, which happens to be whites in all western countries
on an individual level, anyone can be racist
the word racism can mean both the discrimination of people based on ethnicity and prejudice held against people based on ethnicity and the belief that one ethnicity is superior or inferior to other ethnicities. the latter two can occur in any place, but blacks are not in the same position as whites when it comes to discriminating against the other.
I agree, you said it more precisely than I could. Discrimination is not strictly broader, as a slave with no power would not have the power to discriminate. But they can certainly hate their white masters. If some americans really really hate french people, they still may not be able to discriminate against them.
On October 28 2009 08:40 FabledIntegral wrote: Too much of the typical white response is ignorant in this thread I believe - maybe you have an advantage getting into college - that's about it.
I have a lot more to write on this, but most white people haven't been bitched out or had their shit kicked on the ground on the sole basis of race. In class now, but the white perspective on the matter is absolutely ... uninformed.
Hi. Thought I'd chime in with some Penn and Teller videos. I'm white so people will ignore me if I talk about how racist American colleges are. But listen to the words of the black guy in this video.
On October 28 2009 08:40 FabledIntegral wrote: Too much of the typical white response is ignorant in this thread I believe - maybe you have an advantage getting into college - that's about it.
I have a lot more to write on this, but most white people haven't been bitched out or had their shit kicked on the ground on the sole basis of race. In class now, but the white perspective on the matter is absolutely ... uninformed.
I almost missed this gem.
I missed it too. Thanks for quoting it.
And we don't even really have an advantage in getting into college. A black person who works hard in high school to get good grades (at least a 3.5 out of 4.0 average) and does even moderately well on the SAT (1300 out of 1600 -- what's that equivalent to these days? Maybe 1950 out of 2400?) can basically pick and choose what school he wants.
There was a big stink about a decade ago because a white person lied on their application and said they were black and got into a school above his level (based on GPA/SAT). When the school administration found out, he was summarily expelled.
I'm not going to lie and say black people have everything easy. There are parts of this country where black people receive a great deal of animosity and inner cities are known for their terrible management. But those parts of the country that are racist against blacks are not places you will ever have to go unless you want to and those same inner cities that are poorly run with high crime rates and bad schools very often have a black mayor.
I think everyone is racist until they realize that belonging to a "race" (i don´t think this term is correct when applied to humans, biologically speaking) doesn´t have anything to do with your capacities, aptitudes, social behavior, beliefs, etc. I can´t think of any reason that can logically lead you to dislike or hate a "race" in general. The word Hate as a feeling is something subjective and i don´t think it means the same thing for everyone, it´s like the reaction you have in front of something you really dislike or disagree with, but don´t make things more complicated. Back on topic, i find Culture to be something different. You can like or dislike a culture and agree or disagree with one or all of their attitudes, beliefs, etc. A few centuries ago, in most of the european cultures, african black people wasn´t considered to be humans and they were treated as animals and property; in this case african people had legitimate reasons to dislike europeans, and i think that in this case hate can be justified. But now, if u think about this last sentence the term -europeans- is a generalization (there probably were europeans that considered black people to be equals), and hating every single european in that case is not justified. It is always easier to make generalizations, but it is impossible to accurately judge people without actually knowing them. You need to know someone before you say something about them, because you need information to extract conclusions from. First impressions usually lead us to wrong guesses, i think we all have experienced that. That´s why i find racism, ethnicism, classism, etc. to be wrong, illogical and unpractical.
I wish i could express myself better, but english is not my first lenguage and i´m a little bit tired now...
Just from my point of view of being an asian in America, I have observed that black people are more racist than white people (based on the people I have encountered).
A lot of the disagreements here stem from a slightly deceptive issue of semantics. I think there is a lot of truth to the sentiment that only those in power can commit racism, and it should be considered a bit more deeply than some people in this tread seem to be mistakenly doing. I think it's important to define what racism really is. For instance, does the word describe the simple act of discriminating against someone based on their ethnicity, if so, then it's clear that anyone can be racist. A group of black Americans can be said to be committing racism by discriminating against a white guy for being white. I think this is the definition of racism that at least some of the people arguing against the girl have been using, but I don't think this is the definition of racism that she, or her instructor, had intended to use. Indeed, I don't think fully accounts for what the word has come to mean. In our culture, a black person discriminating against a white person for his race, is different than a white person doing the same to him--even if, for instance, he doesn't hire him because he's white. A black person's racial discrimination simply doesn't carry the same weight. It goes deeper than just one person's overt display of racial discrimination, and I hope we can all agree on that--if not, you need to think about this more. It's not simply a word that plainly deals with racial discrimination from one person to the next, but it's a word that describes a very distinct experience that deals with society at large. While your professor was right in one sense, that anyone can commit racism to another person, he largely missed the point of what being racist really means in this culture. His was a case of a man pointing out the obvious, and failing to exercise some sensitivity to an issue that is still very real.
On October 28 2009 07:16 Divinek wrote: Well it certainly seems that white people are the only people who get in shit for being racist. At least you know you see all these comedians who use racist jokes and they're all not white, because if a white guy tries to pull stuff like that it just doesn't go over well.
Actually, I think there is one thing you can call a white male to "hurt his feelings" - racist (or maybe sexist, I dunno, probably not so much tho).
Anyway, I've seen that vid before and it's good For my future childrens sake tho, I hope we'll be a more enlightened bunch as a race (human race, thank you) by the time the "white man falls from grace".
FrozenArbiter: The OP mentions that the girl is referring to the U.S.
I generally avoid arguing race now, because very few people can do it in respectful and open-minded way, often taking things to heart which just turns in to a pathetic insult contest.
I'm starting to hope that in about 100 years when peoples races are so mixed, even more so than now; that racism won't exsist anymore, because a 100% pure race and national person won't exist anymore. Meh, I can dream can't I?
It's a stupid thing that's being perpetuated by a lot of professors in minority studies. My teacher (who was generally pretty intelligent besides stupid shit like that) said the same thing and I challenged her every step of the way. People supporting it can say it all they want, but the bottom line is that it doesn't match up with the accepted definition of racism.
I mean, as a rule of thumb, whites will often be the ones in position to put minorities on a lower power level (but if you use your head, there's obvious ways this can be broken, but it's more like exceptions to the rule). It's really an issue of semantics.
If you're a white person and you're reading this just entertain my thinking for a second
If a black guy gave a speech about social equality and he was passionate, he could be offhand dismissed as an angry black man. If a lesbian gave a speech about sexual equality, she could be called butch or whatever.
If a white guy does it, he can't really be labeled as part of a group. He is judged by his own merits. So it makes sense that only white people can be racist (white men specifically) because we're the ones who dish out the labels.
That doesn't mean other groups can't be hateful or spiteful because of race...I guess it comes down to definitions. When I think other groups can be racist towards me they have the ability to dislike me because of race (which I think is racism) but its really called something else.
And as for those black girls in your english class, you make it sound like they jumped on you. They probably did, but then that white guy probably pissed them off and he (+ you too) couldn't realize why. It's really, really hard to actually understand what its like to be a minority if you're white in America. It's even harder to explain it eloquently and clearly.
And the hardest thing of all, especially for white american males, is humility. I've been blessed with a multicultural perspective my entire life so I know what I say is generally true in our society. Next time in english class, don't be petty. Be polite and patient, and try not to offend. Make it clear to them that you realize theres a divide but that its hard for you to understand, but you're willing to listen and to try to learn. But really, whatever those black girls are saying, listen closely and just try to grasp at it. Don't just dismiss it if it makes you angry at first.
On October 29 2009 00:02 KurtistheTurtle wrote: If you're a white person and you're reading this just entertain my thinking for a second
If a black guy gave a speech about social equality and he was passionate, he could be offhand dismissed as an angry black man. If a lesbian gave a speech about sexual equality, she could be called butch or whatever.
If a white guy does it, he can't really be labeled as part of a group. He is judged by his own merits. So it makes sense that only white people can be racist (white men specifically) because we're the ones who dish out the labels.
That doesn't mean other groups can't be hateful or spiteful because of race...I guess it comes down to definitions. When I think other groups can be racist towards me they have the ability to dislike me because of race (which I think is racism) but its really called something else.
And as for those black girls in your english class, you make it sound like they jumped on you. They probably did, but then that white guy probably pissed them off and he (+ you too) couldn't realize why. It's really, really hard to actually understand what its like to be a minority if you're white in America. It's even harder to explain it eloquently and clearly.
And the hardest thing of all, especially for white american males, is humility. I've been blessed with a multicultural perspective my entire life so I know what I say is generally true in our society. Next time in english class, don't be petty. Be polite and patient, and try not to offend. Make it clear to them that you realize theres a divide but that its hard for you to understand, but you're willing to listen and to try to learn. But really, whatever those black girls are saying, listen closely and just try to grasp at it. Don't just dismiss it if it makes you angry at first.
I agree with pretty much everything but your third graph
rac·ism
NOUN:
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
There's nothing in the definition of racism that says it's white male only or that it's only racism if the hatred based on race allows for one to be disadvantaged in some fashion. Yeah, whites are generally the ones capable of having racism do more than just hurting feelings, but contorting the accepted definition of racism to fit that doesn't make it correct, even if some ultra-liberal professors are pushing it down the throats of students.
On October 28 2009 09:41 koreasilver wrote: ... schools are more segregated than 30 years ago, with more than 80% of African-American schools facing concentrated levels of poverty. When understanding the US system of school funding depending on the economic prosperity of the district, it is sufficient to say that African-American schools are not only segregated but continue to be highly unequal. It is therefore not surprising that with limited resources and poor quality teaching, the students are performing in general below standards. However, lower educational quality and achievement will directly and indirectly again keep African-Americans in place, as those being able to only achieve lesser levels of education and find less prestigious jobs will, as a consequence, perpetuate for whites and unfortunately some African-Americans the biases and negative images surrounding African-American people. Furthermore, the draw back of affirmative action and the allowance of segregated and therefore unequal schools for African-Americans are clear indicators of the deteriorating situation for the African-American underclass and an increasingly difficult situation for middle class African-Americans, as society and its sociological structures seems in direct and indirect terms to further and further limit their opportunities and upward mobility.
This is another bright example of what the black chick in OP was stating. Article ignores so many things its ridiculous. A lot of black people live in poor districts thus going to schools with bad funding. Again, many people that attend there are so ignorant and careless for education none of those schools can be successfully renovated and well maintained. Obviously with that level of education you cannot get a decent job and its true for anyone; if anything an employer expects less from a black to begin with thus lowering the hiring standard( call it racism but fuck, 90% of them wouldnt get a competitive job otherwise)
edit: biochemist stated a lot of this above me
Lets just completely ignore the history of why a lot of black people live in poor districts, and the fact that the federal government doesn't give these black areas proper funding at all while these middle-upper class white areas get much better everything. This is kinda like how Canada wasn't doing shit for many First Nation communities and these people were suffering from completely disgusting deterioration of public facilities. A lot of Aboriginals still live in poverty in Canada because of the discrimination they receive, and yet so many people sling insults at them because of how they are exempt from taxes and some other benefits, yet they completely ignore that they continue to be extremely marginalized.
Do you really think that these people are completely responsible for their living conditions? The fact that you portray these minorities that live in poverty in such a low manner baffles me. You're talking as if these people are a completely lesser breed when the reason as to why they live and continue to live in these "degenerate" ways is due to the nature of the environment that they have been left in with little to no way of getting out properly. The exact same thing happens with any kind of people that are tossed to the bottom and stepped on by any society be they black, white, whatever. If you can't understand this then you're simply nothing but a fool.
On October 28 2009 10:13 eMbrace wrote: Ok well for this particular case you would be better off saying, "most white people" don't understand this type of situation, as there are indeed poor white people who grow up in identical situations and go to the schools like the one the article mentions.
if you are born into a community like that, no matter what race you are -- you are in for a tough childhood.
is it really a grand conspiracy by powerful white people who all want to keep the black man down in poverty so they can't become educated?
perhaps, or is it just our government's failure to fix a not so easy situation that many modern countries face as well? what if the government fixed up a school real nice (like it was for white kids, right?), would this change the environment it's placed in? i don't feel that it would. I don't feel that kids would suddenly treat school differently-- not even suburban white kids feel their education is important until their parents get on their ass in highschool.
blacks and hispanics continue to show the worst testing results in quality public schools as well -- while asians and indians show higher results than the white population (this is where the stereotypes come from).
which is why a well-educated black or latino has a world of opportunity made for them.
i'm not saying it is their skin color that's holding them back, otherwise I'd be a racist 0_o -- but there is a history behind the culture of many black people that has led to these problems, and while a big one is the discrimination felt in the past -- it is not the ultimate excuse for not being successful.
the problem is the poor community, where everyone (many of your own race) is indirectly dragging you down.
basically, if I was going to be born into a shit neighborhood -- I'd rather be a minority than a majority.
I'm glad you are being thoughtful in your discussion, I had to read your post a few times to not be offended and try to really understand what you were saying. I don't think there is a government conspiracy to keep minorities down, but there are past government and social occurrences that still have a major effect today on minorities. here is an example in this video from pbs.
There are other instances like this, such as white flight beginning in the 1950's which had a dramatic impact on inner cities that you find today.
I would agree that a well educated black or hispanic kid has the world of opportunity but so does a white kid of course, it's just that getting to that point is slightly more difficult for minorities in inner city schools, and of course for those white kids living there as well.
Furthermore, in terms of education, I do not think it is so much kids not caring about education, especially in inner cities. It is the environment in which these kids live in, single parent households, shitty neighborhoods, having to pass by drug dealers every time you go to the store to get some milk or whatever else, and not to mention gangs, these kids get caught in a cycle that is very hard to break and I don't think that should be understated because it is very hard to relate to when you have not experienced it yourself. They have lots of stress to deal with and that isn't the greatest learning environment, or they are trying to learn in a setting where being smart is looked down upon by the other kids.
I also think it's more institutionalized racism than individual racism these days, and I think that's obvious
U.S. Incarceration rates of black males per 100k population in 2005 were 5.5 times higher than in South Africa during Apartheid. 4682 u.s. 2005/851 S.A. 1993 = 5.502 Lifetime risks of current incarceration in 2003 were 32.3% for black males and 5.9% for white males, hispanics were at 17.2% (Bonczar, BJS, 2003)
I do think that these days though we have more of a problem with class issues rather than racial, but the impacts of the past are still with us, it hasn't been that long since 1964. Anyway I kind of rambled on but that's my 2 cents.
One recommendation, I think you should go speak with that professor to get a better understanding of what he exactly meant to clear up confusion, messages often get muddled by those listening.
On October 29 2009 00:02 KurtistheTurtle wrote: If you're a white person and you're reading this just entertain my thinking for a second
If a black guy gave a speech about social equality and he was passionate, he could be offhand dismissed as an angry black man. If a lesbian gave a speech about sexual equality, she could be called butch or whatever.
If a white guy does it, he can't really be labeled as part of a group. He is judged by his own merits. So it makes sense that only white people can be racist (white men specifically) because we're the ones who dish out the labels.
That doesn't mean other groups can't be hateful or spiteful because of race...I guess it comes down to definitions. When I think other groups can be racist towards me they have the ability to dislike me because of race (which I think is racism) but its really called something else.
And as for those black girls in your english class, you make it sound like they jumped on you. They probably did, but then that white guy probably pissed them off and he (+ you too) couldn't realize why. It's really, really hard to actually understand what its like to be a minority if you're white in America. It's even harder to explain it eloquently and clearly.
And the hardest thing of all, especially for white american males, is humility. I've been blessed with a multicultural perspective my entire life so I know what I say is generally true in our society. Next time in english class, don't be petty. Be polite and patient, and try not to offend. Make it clear to them that you realize theres a divide but that its hard for you to understand, but you're willing to listen and to try to learn. But really, whatever those black girls are saying, listen closely and just try to grasp at it. Don't just dismiss it if it makes you angry at first.
Bullshit. White people are labeled as part of a group all the time. I have heard and referred to white people as "guilou" "gaijin" "crackers" "WASPs" "whiteys" "wiggas" and "razy irriterate americans." You can't honestly be saying that heterosexual straight white men are not categorized in groups-I just did it right there.
Here's the thing: the very idea that they say that only white people can be racist, further perpetuates that stupid, stupid white guilt that plagues America. White guilt has caused so much stupid shit to happen, and it's very annoying when dumb Americans pretend that they are "not racist" and try to justify it by overcompensating for it. You yourself accuse people of being too assuming and unable to comprehend-hence the divide, but at the same time you seem to fail to recognize that it's not just the white kids who are at fault here. The black girls are just as much responsible as the white kids are for the misconceptions and misunderstandings, and blaming it solely on the white people isn't going to make things right.
Let's take a look at slavery. Slavery was seen by the white people as being a boon to black people, not as a way to torture them. For white people, the idea was that they weren't exploiting people, but that they were helping to culture and incorporate black people into civilization, and that it was a good thing. This is, of course, a huge fucking misconception. But at the same time, black people did not really demonstrate that they were better off than they were under slavery-rather than accuse it of being bad for black people and humanity in general,they criticized it as being "amoral," an attack that doesn't work too well when white man's burden was the phlilosophy de jour.
The South Park Episode on "N*ggers," for instance, sums it up quite well. First of all, when people refer to people as being racist, they don't actually appreciate what's going on, as seen by how the black characters tend to be completely silent and looking angry the entire time. Likewise, the fact that we denigrate people as being racist as much as we imagine racists treat people is just as bad. Until we can stop being hypocrites on discrimination overall, we can't make generalizations about any types of discrimination.
On October 28 2009 10:13 eMbrace wrote: Ok well for this particular case you would be better off saying, "most white people" don't understand this type of situation, as there are indeed poor white people who grow up in identical situations and go to the schools like the one the article mentions.
if you are born into a community like that, no matter what race you are -- you are in for a tough childhood.
is it really a grand conspiracy by powerful white people who all want to keep the black man down in poverty so they can't become educated?
perhaps, or is it just our government's failure to fix a not so easy situation that many modern countries face as well? what if the government fixed up a school real nice (like it was for white kids, right?), would this change the environment it's placed in? i don't feel that it would. I don't feel that kids would suddenly treat school differently-- not even suburban white kids feel their education is important until their parents get on their ass in highschool.
blacks and hispanics continue to show the worst testing results in quality public schools as well -- while asians and indians show higher results than the white population (this is where the stereotypes come from).
which is why a well-educated black or latino has a world of opportunity made for them.
i'm not saying it is their skin color that's holding them back, otherwise I'd be a racist 0_o -- but there is a history behind the culture of many black people that has led to these problems, and while a big one is the discrimination felt in the past -- it is not the ultimate excuse for not being successful.
the problem is the poor community, where everyone (many of your own race) is indirectly dragging you down.
basically, if I was going to be born into a shit neighborhood -- I'd rather be a minority than a majority.
I'm glad you are being thoughtful in your discussion, I had to read your post a few times to not be offended and try to really understand what you were saying. I don't think there is a government conspiracy to keep minorities down, but there are past government and social occurrences that still have a major effect today on minorities. here is an example in this video from pbs.
There are other instances like this, such as white flight beginning in the 1950's which had a dramatic impact on inner cities that you find today.
I would agree that a well educated black or hispanic kid has the world of opportunity but so does a white kid of course, it's just that getting to that point is slightly more difficult for minorities in inner city schools, and of course for those white kids living there as well.
Furthermore, in terms of education, I do not think it is so much kids not caring about education, especially in inner cities. It is the environment in which these kids live in, single parent households, shitty neighborhoods, having to pass by drug dealers every time you go to the store to get some milk or whatever else, and not to mention gangs, these kids get caught in a cycle that is very hard to break and I don't think that should be understated because it is very hard to relate to when you have not experienced it yourself. They have lots of stress to deal with and that isn't the greatest learning environment, or they are trying to learn in a setting where being smart is looked down upon by the other kids. I also think it's more institutionalized racism than individual racism these days, and I think that's obvious
U.S. Incarceration rates of black males per 100k population in 2005 were 5.5 times higher than in South Africa during Apartheid. 4682 u.s. 2005/851 S.A. 1993 = 5.502 Lifetime risks of current incarceration in 2003 were 32.3% for black males and 5.9% for white males, hispanics were at 17.2% (Bonczar, BJS, 2003)
I do think that these days though we have more of a problem with class issues rather than racial, but the impacts of the past are still with us, it hasn't been that long since 1964. Anyway I kind of rambled on but that's my 2 cents.
One recommendation, I think you should go speak with that professor to get a better understanding of what he exactly meant to clear up confusion, messages often get muddled by those listening.
On October 28 2009 09:41 koreasilver wrote: ... schools are more segregated than 30 years ago, with more than 80% of African-American schools facing concentrated levels of poverty. When understanding the US system of school funding depending on the economic prosperity of the district, it is sufficient to say that African-American schools are not only segregated but continue to be highly unequal. It is therefore not surprising that with limited resources and poor quality teaching, the students are performing in general below standards. However, lower educational quality and achievement will directly and indirectly again keep African-Americans in place, as those being able to only achieve lesser levels of education and find less prestigious jobs will, as a consequence, perpetuate for whites and unfortunately some African-Americans the biases and negative images surrounding African-American people. Furthermore, the draw back of affirmative action and the allowance of segregated and therefore unequal schools for African-Americans are clear indicators of the deteriorating situation for the African-American underclass and an increasingly difficult situation for middle class African-Americans, as society and its sociological structures seems in direct and indirect terms to further and further limit their opportunities and upward mobility.
This is another bright example of what the black chick in OP was stating. Article ignores so many things its ridiculous. A lot of black people live in poor districts thus going to schools with bad funding. Again, many people that attend there are so ignorant and careless for education none of those schools can be successfully renovated and well maintained. Obviously with that level of education you cannot get a decent job and its true for anyone; if anything an employer expects less from a black to begin with thus lowering the hiring standard( call it racism but fuck, 90% of them wouldnt get a competitive job otherwise)
edit: biochemist stated a lot of this above me
Lets just completely ignore the history of why a lot of black people live in poor districts, and the fact that the federal government doesn't give these black areas proper funding at all while these middle-upper class white areas get much better everything.
That's total bull, at least in NJ.
Passaic (cess pool of a city) got $184 million on top of their normal budget, which is made up of local property taxes. Paterson, an even bigger hole, got $389 million. Funding comes from state and fed, I think. Either way, it's not the local tax payers.
Granted, there's way more factors at play than just educational monies (you are a product of your environment, which in this case is the ghetto), but you couldn't be farther from the truth to say that hoods lack proper funding.
On October 29 2009 00:15 Hawk wrote: I agree with pretty much everything but your third graph
rac·ism
NOUN:
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
There's nothing in the definition of racism that says it's white male only or that it's only racism if the hatred based on race allows for one to be disadvantaged in some fashion. Yeah, whites are generally the ones capable of having racism do more than just hurting feelings, but contorting the accepted definition of racism to fit that doesn't make it correct, even if some ultra-liberal professors are pushing it down the throats of students.
I've thought a lot about gender equality, but not that much about race. I'm still grappling with the idea, and the more I think about the dominant/majority race as the only one who can be racist the more it doesn't make sense. And this makes more sense.
On October 29 2009 00:39 Caller wrote: Bullshit. White people are labeled as part of a group all the time. I have heard and referred to white people as "guilou" "gaijin" "crackers" "WASPs" "whiteys" "wiggas" and "razy irriterate americans." You can't honestly be saying that heterosexual straight white men are not categorized in groups-I just did it right there.
Here's the thing: the very idea that they say that only white people can be racist, further perpetuates that stupid, stupid white guilt that plagues America. White guilt has caused so much stupid shit to happen, and it's very annoying when dumb Americans pretend that they are "not racist" and try to justify it by overcompensating for it. You yourself accuse people of being too assuming and unable to comprehend-hence the divide, but at the same time you seem to fail to recognize that it's not just the white kids who are at fault here. The black girls are just as much responsible as the white kids are for the misconceptions and misunderstandings, and blaming it solely on the white people isn't going to make things right.
So what you're saying is that I'm being a wuss and overcompensating because I feel guilty. And that its not all my fault. And then you reference south park lmao
Maybe. I'm gonna take a nap and think about this later.
There's nothing wrong in being racist as long as you have been taught good manners. Even tho I think that on an average scale black people are way stupider than white people and I also think asians are more intelligent than whites it doesn't change the fact that every human being has the same rights and obligations as me. The term itself though doesn't have much to do with power, it just means discrimination by race. So yes, the black guys in op's class who started arguing and screaming fall into the category of stupid people who mix reason with emotions, and can't even grasp a concept so easy such as racism, thinking at its long term consequences instead. Same goes for whoever taught them that bullshit. You should feel sorry for them.
There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, Native Americans, ect. and then there are just Americans.
You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me "Whiteboy," "Cracker," "Honkey," "Whitey," Caveman" and that's OK. But when I call you, Nigger, Kike, Towelhead, Sand-nigger, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink you call me a racist.
You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you, so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?
You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day. You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day. You have Yom Hashoah You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi You have the NAACP. You have BET.
If we had WET(White Entertainment Television) we'd be racists.
If we had a White Pride Day you would call us racists. If we had White History Month, we'd be racists. If we had any organization for only whites to "advance" our lives, we'd be racists.
We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. Wonder who pays for that?
If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships, you know we'd be racists. There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US, yet if there were "White colleges" that would be a racist college.
In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.
You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.
You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.
On October 28 2009 09:41 koreasilver wrote: ... schools are more segregated than 30 years ago, with more than 80% of African-American schools facing concentrated levels of poverty. When understanding the US system of school funding depending on the economic prosperity of the district, it is sufficient to say that African-American schools are not only segregated but continue to be highly unequal. It is therefore not surprising that with limited resources and poor quality teaching, the students are performing in general below standards. However, lower educational quality and achievement will directly and indirectly again keep African-Americans in place, as those being able to only achieve lesser levels of education and find less prestigious jobs will, as a consequence, perpetuate for whites and unfortunately some African-Americans the biases and negative images surrounding African-American people. Furthermore, the draw back of affirmative action and the allowance of segregated and therefore unequal schools for African-Americans are clear indicators of the deteriorating situation for the African-American underclass and an increasingly difficult situation for middle class African-Americans, as society and its sociological structures seems in direct and indirect terms to further and further limit their opportunities and upward mobility.
This is another bright example of what the black chick in OP was stating. Article ignores so many things its ridiculous. A lot of black people live in poor districts thus going to schools with bad funding. Again, many people that attend there are so ignorant and careless for education none of those schools can be successfully renovated and well maintained. Obviously with that level of education you cannot get a decent job and its true for anyone; if anything an employer expects less from a black to begin with thus lowering the hiring standard( call it racism but fuck, 90% of them wouldnt get a competitive job otherwise)
edit: biochemist stated a lot of this above me
Lets just completely ignore the history of why a lot of black people live in poor districts, and the fact that the federal government doesn't give these black areas proper funding at all while these middle-upper class white areas get much better everything. This is kinda like how Canada wasn't doing shit for many First Nation communities and these people were suffering from completely disgusting deterioration of public facilities. A lot of Aboriginals still live in poverty in Canada because of the discrimination they receive, and yet so many people sling insults at them because of how they are exempt from taxes and some other benefits, yet they completely ignore that they continue to be extremely marginalized.
Do you really think that these people are completely responsible for their living conditions? The fact that you portray these minorities that live in poverty in such a low manner baffles me. You're talking as if these people are a completely lesser breed when the reason as to why they live and continue to live in these "degenerate" ways is due to the nature of the environment that they have been left in with little to no way of getting out properly. The exact same thing happens with any kind of people that are tossed to the bottom and stepped on by any society be they black, white, whatever. If you can't understand this then you're simply nothing but a fool.
I understand exactly what you're saying and you're wrong. I don't care how poor their school districts are, the only thing keeping minorities in poverty is their own lack of ambition. lots of money is being spent on all kinds of programs designed to motivate them. I know a cardiologist who has spent several million dollars (much of it his own) on a program that has professionals get inner city kids excited about where education can take them. There are more scholarships for minorities, and the standards for acceptance into college are easier. The officer corps of all of the military branches even spend more time actively recruting minorities. The incentives and programs are out there, and they're accessible to anyone. Unfortunately when a kid only wants to grow up to be a gang banger and his parents support this, there's nothing you can do. It's a self-perpetuating culture.
You think that throwing more money at minority school districts is suddenly going to solve the problem and within a generation we'll have a happy, balanced, homogenous society? I can't believe you can take that stance and then call other people fools.
No, money on its own doesn't do anything. I have never once claimed I know what needs to be done. I only believe that I know some areas that are wrong.
On October 29 2009 02:10 koreasilver wrote: No, money on its own doesn't do anything. I have never once claimed I know what needs to be done. I only believe that I know some areas that are wrong.
Ah, well it seemed from your posts that you were blaming the problem on the fiscal difference. If it were that easy, we probably would have solved this problem a LONG time ago.
On October 28 2009 09:41 koreasilver wrote: ... schools are more segregated than 30 years ago, with more than 80% of African-American schools facing concentrated levels of poverty. When understanding the US system of school funding depending on the economic prosperity of the district, it is sufficient to say that African-American schools are not only segregated but continue to be highly unequal. It is therefore not surprising that with limited resources and poor quality teaching, the students are performing in general below standards. However, lower educational quality and achievement will directly and indirectly again keep African-Americans in place, as those being able to only achieve lesser levels of education and find less prestigious jobs will, as a consequence, perpetuate for whites and unfortunately some African-Americans the biases and negative images surrounding African-American people. Furthermore, the draw back of affirmative action and the allowance of segregated and therefore unequal schools for African-Americans are clear indicators of the deteriorating situation for the African-American underclass and an increasingly difficult situation for middle class African-Americans, as society and its sociological structures seems in direct and indirect terms to further and further limit their opportunities and upward mobility.
This is another bright example of what the black chick in OP was stating. Article ignores so many things its ridiculous. A lot of black people live in poor districts thus going to schools with bad funding. Again, many people that attend there are so ignorant and careless for education none of those schools can be successfully renovated and well maintained. Obviously with that level of education you cannot get a decent job and its true for anyone; if anything an employer expects less from a black to begin with thus lowering the hiring standard( call it racism but fuck, 90% of them wouldnt get a competitive job otherwise)
edit: biochemist stated a lot of this above me
Lets just completely ignore the history of why a lot of black people live in poor districts, and the fact that the federal government doesn't give these black areas proper funding at all while these middle-upper class white areas get much better everything. This is kinda like how Canada wasn't doing shit for many First Nation communities and these people were suffering from completely disgusting deterioration of public facilities. A lot of Aboriginals still live in poverty in Canada because of the discrimination they receive, and yet so many people sling insults at them because of how they are exempt from taxes and some other benefits, yet they completely ignore that they continue to be extremely marginalized.
Do you really think that these people are completely responsible for their living conditions? The fact that you portray these minorities that live in poverty in such a low manner baffles me. You're talking as if these people are a completely lesser breed when the reason as to why they live and continue to live in these "degenerate" ways is due to the nature of the environment that they have been left in with little to no way of getting out properly. The exact same thing happens with any kind of people that are tossed to the bottom and stepped on by any society be they black, white, whatever. If you can't understand this then you're simply nothing but a fool.
I understand exactly what you're saying and you're wrong. I don't care how poor their school districts are, the only thing keeping minorities in poverty is their own lack of ambition. lots of money is being spent on all kinds of programs designed to motivate them. I know a cardiologist who has spent several million dollars (much of it his own) on a program that has professionals get inner city kids excited about where education can take them. There are more scholarships for minorities, and the standards for acceptance into college are easier. The officer corps of all of the military branches even spend more time actively recruting minorities. The incentives and programs are out there, and they're accessible to anyone. Unfortunately when a kid only wants to grow up to be a gang banger and his parents support this, there's nothing you can do. It's a self-perpetuating culture.
I have to completely disagree with your bold statement that the only thing keeping minorities down is their lack of ambition, I think that is pretty ridiculous statement to make, way over simplified, it is dismissive and it does nothing to understand the problem. You can have all these great programs but that doesn't mean anything when they go home to a criminal/drug using culture, it is more than just lack of ambition working counter productively towards their future, these kinds of kids often live in two different worlds trying to walk the tight rope between the street and succeeding in school.
On October 29 2009 00:31 koreasilver wrote: Lets just completely ignore the history of why a lot of black people live in poor districts, and the fact that the federal government doesn't give these black areas proper funding at all while these middle-upper class white areas get much better everything. This is kinda like how Canada wasn't doing shit for many First Nation communities and these people were suffering from completely disgusting deterioration of public facilities. A lot of Aboriginals still live in poverty in Canada because of the discrimination they receive, and yet so many people sling insults at them because of how they are exempt from taxes and some other benefits, yet they completely ignore that they continue to be extremely marginalized.
History should be the last thing for you to cling to. If anything, history improved the living conditions of blacks from tribal slavery to being a part of a democratic society where they get a fair opportunity along with everyone else. If you want to argue that they were better off staying in Africa without intruders ruining their happy existence then why do you bring up Aboriginals in Canada not being able to blend in? Let them be the way they are? Because when they become degenerates from drinking vodka and smoking crack you are going to blame the white world again. People like you need a reason to explain their own inability to achieve anything.
Do you really think that these people are completely responsible for their living conditions? The fact that you portray these minorities that live in poverty in such a low manner baffles me. You're talking as if these people are a completely lesser breed when the reason as to why they live and continue to live in these "degenerate" ways is due to the nature of the environment that they have been left in with little to no way of getting out properly. The exact same thing happens with any kind of people that are tossed to the bottom and stepped on by any society be they black, white, whatever. If you can't understand this then you're simply nothing but a fool.
I dont think they are completely responsible for their living conditions, I do think they have every instrument to change that. Huge part of the white population in the US are second or third generation immigrants, they never had a slave and worked their asses off to rise from the gutter. You cant generalize all the whites, by supporting the claim that white society is racist you are proving your own ignorance and ignorance of those blacks who "gave up" because they are not white. Slavery existed everywhere else but no groups besides african-americans claim to want reparations for having to work "for free". The many cases of genocide and atrocities towards specific ethnicities are rarely brought up as a reasoning nowadays and left behind not to obstruct overall development. History doesnt give you any right to blame anyone for where the american blacks are. In fact none of them would want to return to where they originated from even if you place them in better conditions with infinitely higher social status compared to where their ancestors left off.
On October 29 2009 02:42 XoXiDe wrote: I have to completely disagree with your bold statement that the only thing keeping minorities down is their lack of ambition, I think that is pretty ridiculous statement to make, way over simplified, it is dismissive and it does nothing to understand the problem. You can have all these great programs but that doesn't mean anything when they go home to a criminal/drug using culture, it is more than just lack of ambition working counter productively towards their future, these kinds of kids often live in two different worlds trying to walk the tight rope between the street and succeeding in school.
You are forgetting that this is the debate about white man being the only "real" racist hindering minorities on their way to success. No one says anything about how hard it is to live in a ghetto. Similar places exist all over the world and they dont even correlate with racial discrimination.
Right now I work in Brockton, MA. A lot of blacks around. Mostly decent houses. No visible poverty, no ghettos. Everyone is busy with their lives. Nice schools. Who do we blame here.
So many of you have lived sheltered lives. Otherwise you wouldn't so brainwashed and so stupid as to believe in this white-guilt notion that this thinking of "only whites are racist" is in the least bit justifiable.
On October 28 2009 08:40 FabledIntegral wrote: Too much of the typical white response is ignorant in this thread I believe - maybe you have an advantage getting into college - that's about it.
I have a lot more to write on this, but most white people haven't been bitched out or had their shit kicked on the ground on the sole basis of race. In class now, but the white perspective on the matter is absolutely ... uninformed.
So you perfectly know how it is for a white guy to walk into a black store in a black part of town late at night? Shut your trap lol. You never experienced anything threatening besides your schoolmates clowning on your weak ass, dont make yourself a martyr. Nowadays you can easily get your ass whooped for being a "whiteboy". Who else is afraid to walk through a "wrong" part of town solely cuz of their skin color? Dont ever say that someone cant understand how you feel since hes white, this is whats really ignorant. Ive only been in this country for 5 years and ive seen every side of this already.
Fuck off asshole, don't even try to tell me what I've fucking experienced. I never tried to portray myself as a martyr, but thanks for making all these assumptions. Screw off.
The prevalence of discrimination against minorities significantly topples that of what is experienced against whites. What I said was most white people, not all. Most white people have the mindset that discrimination against minorities has disappeared in society in today's age - which is a load of bullshit. Sure white people can get discriminated against if you live in shitty areas or on a very off chance - but racism against minorities is everywhere, whether it's in the shitty areas or the wealthy areas. If you're in the "wrong" part of town you can get your ass kicked no matter what race you are. But even if you're in the "right" part racism still exists.
I never said white people weren't discriminated against - I was referring to the typical white response. Thanks for making your assumptions though, asshole.
On October 29 2009 02:42 XoXiDe wrote: I have to completely disagree with your bold statement that the only thing keeping minorities down is their lack of ambition, I think that is pretty ridiculous statement to make, way over simplified, it is dismissive and it does nothing to understand the problem. You can have all these great programs but that doesn't mean anything when they go home to a criminal/drug using culture, it is more than just lack of ambition working counter productively towards their future, these kinds of kids often live in two different worlds trying to walk the tight rope between the street and succeeding in school.
You are forgetting that this is the debate about white man being the only "real" racist hindering minorities on their way to success. No one says anything about how hard it is to live in a ghetto. Similar places exist all over the world and they dont even correlate with racial discrimination.
Right now I work in Brockton, MA. A lot of blacks around. Mostly decent houses. No visible poverty, no ghettos. Everyone is busy with their lives. Nice schools. Who do we blame here.
You are right I kind of got off track, and I definitely don't think the white man is out to keep minorities down, at least for the majority of the population these days but that doesn't discount historical underpinnings. I don't know what Brockton has to do with what I was discussing, it does seem to be an example of the growth of the black middle class. Here in San Antonio the east side of town used to be the segregated side for blacks, now it's generally a poorer area as it always was, and associated with high gang and criminal activity, same goes with downtown San Antonio right out of the business district are the poor areas, and the homeless, while the wealthy population (all races) has migrated to the suburbs, along with businesses and banks and San Antonio has grown fairly large with business and new construction mostly away from the city center.
My general point is that many of these social problems are a manifestation of past policies and prejudices, not through simple laziness and incompetence. I was also addressing the notion in different posts that this is what is holding black people down. Again, I don't think only whites can be racist, my uncle had a slight problem marrying my aunt because he was white and my grandpa was old school Mexican. I'll just have to agree to disagree with some sentiments in this thread and I won't post again about it.
Back to the girls main thought, or I assume a summation of what she said, of what racism is.
A black girl brought up the question to the professor, "In our black studies class we are learning that the only race that can be racist is white people, because they have the most power (she's referring to the U.S.) -- so while a minority can be prejudice towards white people, they can never actually be racist since they can't put whites on a lower power level. Do you agree with this?"
If her main point is that white people (who apparently have all the power), can only be racist, then I completely disagree with that. A definition I found on dictionary.com is that racism is "the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others." So it basically just boils down to her own definition being different then the general population. Then again, it is in a class for Black Studies where I assume the teacher is African American because the definition seems more of an opinion to me.
Going off the definition that I have quoted, and using the civil rights movement, the civil rights act of 1964,the voting rights act of 1965, as well as educational breakthroughs as a reference. When you take all that into account and look at the current day, I would have to say that there is definitely more equality between whites/blacks.
I've read a bit of some of the posts on the thread, even one poster who said that he was speechless and couldn't think of anything to say, and another saying that people are even racist amongst their own race (I completely agree I constantly see black people using N***A this and my N****A that, which seems so asinine to me because it was so degrading to older black generations in general, and currently it's apparently the coolest thing still). I also noticed that people even got off track talking about equal opportunities (I believe), and how it's still unfair or still racist. I'd like to point out one post that was pretty damn racist in my opinion by FabledIntegral "Too much of the typical white response is ignorant in this thread I believe - maybe you have an advantage getting into college - that's about it."
I believe that he's referring to white people getting into college. Is that so? Black people have a disadvantage in getting into college because of racism? You're also telling me that white people are ignorant of some black peoples' positions/classes/whether they're poor/whether they're rich; it seems like your opinion is that there are no white people who are poor or who don't live in bad homes with bad parents or are around drugs. There also community colleges that offer remedial classes and a chance to get the high school diploma (I believe), financial aid, grants, and loans to help if the problem is financial.
I've spoken about a little that was on my mind. take it for what's worth....if you can.
Wow, people on TL are horribly racist. I would comment but it would be pointless in such a hostile environment.
Did someone on the last page seriously say that black people should be glad they got enslaved because they now live in a better social system? Uh...
Edit : Also, stop quoting the dictionary. It's not a reliable source for definitions of words. No, really. It's fallacious to use the dictionary's definition of a word as a basis for an argument. If you want the definition of a specific word you need to find a philosophical treatise on it, like Foucault does for some words, or find an article that does a fairly in depth look at the origin of it.
On October 29 2009 09:31 Nevuk wrote: Wow, people on TL are horribly racist. I would comment but it would be pointless in such a hostile environment.
Did someone on the last page seriously say that black people should be glad they got enslaved because they now live in a better social system? Uh...
Edit : Also, stop quoting the dictionary. It's not a reliable source for definitions of words. No, really. It's fallacious to use the dictionary's definition of a word as a basis for an argument. If you want the definition of a specific word you need to find a philosophical treatise on it, like Foucault does for some words, or find an article that does a fairly in depth look at the origin of it.
and you guys were like no were accomplishing something here! This is intelligent discussion! ...lol
On October 28 2009 06:46 koreasilver wrote: When it comes to America I can understand the general frustration that many blacks may have because even now blacks are very marginalized by the system. Many whites may believe that minorities have it better than them because of some slight benefits that minorities may have, but that's just utterly retarded because many whites obviously don't realize how bad the prejudices against minorities are even to this day (most significantly, blacks). When I look into the history and society of America, whites seriously are to be blamed for the living standards of blacks, and the subsequent degenerative life that some blacks may be pushed into living. Obviously most people don't really look into it and give it a damn and find it easier to just simply blame the low level minorities of sucking the government of tax money, causing crime, and not working hard enough to become productive citizens. I'm not closely connected to any black communities so I don't really have an intimate idea of how some blacks may think of society and their position in it or how much beliefs may differ amongst themselves, but I can easily see how many, many blacks must be absolutely frustrated and angered at whites.
With all sincerity, most whites simply do not understand minorities. It might be annoying when people say that, but it's true. Whites really don't get it. So many whites think they solved their societal problems when it comes to race but they don't realize that under the surface shit is still really bad. If you really, really think minorities have it better than whites or even have it on par, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
edit: This doesn't really have to do with the racism discussion of this thread but the things some people have said in this thread just really annoyed me.
Sorry korea Im calling you on this.
Blacks are not marginalized by the system. Take my college experience- I had black friends who were accepted to a college when my other white friends who had higher GPA and SAT scores were denied. I know this as fact, because my black friend thought that it was rather funny and shared his scores with me. Affirmative action is a bitch, and frankly if you are a black person and can get out of college with a useful degree finding a job is not a problem.
Whites are not to be blamed for the living standards of blacks. The only thing that white people did many many years ago was red lining. However this is a thing of the past, and is certainly not carried on today. If you want to point the finger as to why many black people live in delapidated housing and in poor community's, the answer lies within the Kennedy and Clinton administration, along with the actions of the community members themselves.
Black people are never forced into that condition- it is simply a lack of education, and the lack of a strong family values. The black culture in America perpetuates the idea that the only way to succeed is to become a rapper, or a basket ball player. Education is never an option and being smart is not cool. The lack of appropriate values and the lack of parental teaching or proper morals is not in the typical black family. This is because of parents having children out of wedlock, incarcerated, dead, or having to work 2+ dead end jobs to try and make ends meet. It's no wonder why their kids end up on the street- perpetuating the cycle again and again. Black culture is simply a product of the environment that black kids were brought up in.
The only reason a black person would ever be frustrated with a white person is if the black person came from a terrible community, and or had no form of education. I can guarantee you that any middle class or upper class black person has no problem with the white neighbors. It is always the lower class fools.
as for whites not understanding blacks, i couldn't agree with you more. However enough is enough. it is common knowledge that this country was built on the backs of black people, and that slavery and the treatment of black people in the south a crime against humanity. the only problem with black people still carrying that baggage is that- i had nothing to do with it, my parents had nothing to do with it, and my kids most certainly will not have anything to do with it. The past should stay in the past, and frankly it's a huge copout when a black person pulls the slavery card. Because i can guarantee you that slavery has nothing to do with the modern day black persons plight.
Do minorities have it better than whites? Yes and no. It really depends on the minority that you ask. My friend from middle school is on a full ride to UW Madison- because her last name is Rameirez. Funny thing is, she is not hispanic. At the same time- If I a Midwestern white person would go to apply for a job on the coast- i can guarantee you that i would get the job over any white/black/pink/purple person.
Korea you live in Canada, have you ever been to Chicago? Milwaukee? Detroit? I go to school in Milwaukee the murder capitol of the Midwest (yes it has a higher murder rate than Chicago) and i can tell you from experience, that the biggest obstacle black people face- are themselves.
Very true. People come to America from other countries with nothing or and have nothing but their own hard work and determination. There are tons of success stories out there, people shouldn't be languishing in ghettos. I think that it's about a lack of motivation and a set of bad values.
On October 28 2009 08:16 Rice wrote: in my limited experience Ive found black people to be much less accepting of other races than white people.
This is very true in my experience too. Black people in general seem to be more racist and unpleasant than any other people, although I have black friends who are just as nice as anyone else.
On October 28 2009 05:38 TheAntZ wrote: White people hardly are racist anymore, black people are the most racist people in the world now.
A truer statement couldn't have been made. How many times do you see white people pulling the race card out? Some people need to get out of the the 1800's and realize that this is 2009.
On October 29 2009 02:57 food wrote: Right now I work in Brockton, MA. A lot of blacks around. Mostly decent houses. No visible poverty, no ghettos. Everyone is busy with their lives. Nice schools. Who do we blame here.
I work in Brockton as well and I think the city is worse than you are making it out to be. Hard drug use is prevalent as well as visible signs of poverty due to the unemployment office. I've seen people get the shit kicked out of them and left bloody on the side walk...I really don't know what part of Brockton you are talking about with all these "decent houses" and "no visible poverty".
On October 29 2009 02:57 food wrote: Right now I work in Brockton, MA. A lot of blacks around. Mostly decent houses. No visible poverty, no ghettos. Everyone is busy with their lives. Nice schools. Who do we blame here.
I work in Brockton as well and I think the city is worse than you are making it out to be. Hard drug use is prevalent as well as visible signs of poverty due to the unemployment office. I've seen people get the shit kicked out of them and left bloody on the side walk...I really don't know what part of Brockton you are talking about with all these "decent houses" and "no visible poverty".
My only question is when you've seen these people get the shit kicked out of them...and left bloody on the sidewalk...you did nothing? good samaritan.... *sarcasm*
On October 29 2009 02:57 food wrote: Right now I work in Brockton, MA. A lot of blacks around. Mostly decent houses. No visible poverty, no ghettos. Everyone is busy with their lives. Nice schools. Who do we blame here.
I work in Brockton as well and I think the city is worse than you are making it out to be. Hard drug use is prevalent as well as visible signs of poverty due to the unemployment office. I've seen people get the shit kicked out of them and left bloody on the side walk...I really don't know what part of Brockton you are talking about with all these "decent houses" and "no visible poverty".
Ive been there for a week and i didnt see any of that. Point is - there are nice neighborhoods too where blacks are making it and those are prevalent. Are you saying brockton is a ghetto where you have no future since you growing up among killers and drug dealers? Please, its MA. I gave this example since Ive noticed how many blacks live there but you can take any town around that area.
On October 29 2009 11:37 ElectroEnd wrote: My only question is when you've seen these people get the shit kicked out of them...and left bloody on the sidewalk...you did nothing? good samaritan.... *sarcasm*
Im sure hes bullshitting, the town isnt anywhere as bad as he makes it out to be and theres no ghetto or anything like that. Even if its true, crime exists in every town, that wasnt the point at all.
On October 28 2009 08:40 FabledIntegral wrote: Too much of the typical white response is ignorant in this thread I believe - maybe you have an advantage getting into college - that's about it.
I have a lot more to write on this, but most white people haven't been bitched out or had their shit kicked on the ground on the sole basis of race. In class now, but the white perspective on the matter is absolutely ... uninformed.
So you perfectly know how it is for a white guy to walk into a black store in a black part of town late at night? Shut your trap lol. You never experienced anything threatening besides your schoolmates clowning on your weak ass, dont make yourself a martyr. Nowadays you can easily get your ass whooped for being a "whiteboy". Who else is afraid to walk through a "wrong" part of town solely cuz of their skin color? Dont ever say that someone cant understand how you feel since hes white, this is whats really ignorant. Ive only been in this country for 5 years and ive seen every side of this already.
Fuck off asshole, don't even try to tell me what I've fucking experienced. I never tried to portray myself as a martyr, but thanks for making all these assumptions. Screw off.
The prevalence of discrimination against minorities significantly topples that of what is experienced against whites. What I said was most white people, not all. Most white people have the mindset that discrimination against minorities has disappeared in society in today's age - which is a load of bullshit. Sure white people can get discriminated against if you live in shitty areas or on a very off chance - but racism against minorities is everywhere, whether it's in the shitty areas or the wealthy areas. If you're in the "wrong" part of town you can get your ass kicked no matter what race you are. But even if you're in the "right" part racism still exists.
I never said white people weren't discriminated against - I was referring to the typical white response. Thanks for making your assumptions though, asshole.
You speak about minorities as if they were treated all the same. What about when minorities are racist against each other, both on an institutional and personal level? Many do not have the luxury of belonging to the favored groups.
everyone should watch "color of fear"--a documentary on the issues that are being debated in this thread. the documentary is set up in the format of a discussion circle with two members of african americans, asians, caucasians, and latinos present. a highly thought provoking documentary with some very, very passionate discussions, it's a doc i highly recommend it to everyone.
On October 29 2009 09:31 Nevuk wrote: Did someone on the last page seriously say that black people should be glad they got enslaved because they now live in a better social system? Uh...
But isn't that a legit opinion? If Africans were never touched by europeans and brought to America by then-Americans, the whole Africa would be in a very hard situation right, with no clean water, healthy food, modern clothes, remedies. Did you see all the starvation and brutal poverty pictures from Africa? Modern African-Americans are in very good conditions now, compared to what would be if they just stayed in Africa. Is this not true?
People starving to death in the streets in Tanzania
Benin is actually the word for "cesspit of eternal torment" in the local language
Dude, but this is the whole point of my post, wasn't this all financed and built by europeans with their technology? I didn't learn african history and only have a rough idea of what was going on there, it's not my business, but there are footage and photos of such hardcore brutality that's going on right now, diseases and starvation, i'm even afraid to post it here.
On October 29 2009 08:31 ElectroEnd wrote: FabledIntegral "Too much of the typical white response is ignorant in this thread I believe - maybe you have an advantage getting into college - that's about it."
I believe that he's referring to white people getting into college. Is that so? Black people have a disadvantage in getting into college because of racism? You're also telling me that white people are ignorant of some black peoples' positions/classes/whether they're poor/whether they're rich; it seems like your opinion is that there are no white people who are poor or who don't live in bad homes with bad parents or are around drugs. There also community colleges that offer remedial classes and a chance to get the high school diploma (I believe), financial aid, grants, and loans to help if the problem is financial.
I've spoken about a little that was on my mind. take it for what's worth....if you can.
Maybe phrased poorly, I meant to refer to the opposite, aka affirmative action, with the "you" being minorities, aka "if you're a minority, you get." I didn't say anything else concerning what you're talking about.
On October 29 2009 02:57 food wrote: Right now I work in Brockton, MA. A lot of blacks around. Mostly decent houses. No visible poverty, no ghettos. Everyone is busy with their lives. Nice schools. Who do we blame here.
I work in Brockton as well and I think the city is worse than you are making it out to be. Hard drug use is prevalent as well as visible signs of poverty due to the unemployment office. I've seen people get the shit kicked out of them and left bloody on the side walk...I really don't know what part of Brockton you are talking about with all these "decent houses" and "no visible poverty".
Ive been there for a week and i didnt see any of that.
On October 29 2009 11:37 ElectroEnd wrote: My only question is when you've seen these people get the shit kicked out of them...and left bloody on the sidewalk...you did nothing? good samaritan.... *sarcasm*
Im sure hes bullshitting, the town isnt anywhere as bad as he makes it out to be and theres no ghetto or anything like that. Even if its true, crime exists in every town, that wasnt the point at all.
I've lived here for 15 years and you have been here a week. You know nothing about the city of Brockton. It used to be all white...but then the unemployment office moved to white avenue and then the number of minorities started to increase. People get shot in parts of Brockton and I'm not going to risk my life to save someone I don't know...and don't act all high and mighty as if you would do something else in the same situation....oh and I didn't see him being left...I saw him being attacked...I was told that he was just left...obviously If I saw a guy by himself I would do something. This happened right on main street near st. edith stein church...I can't believe you think you know a place from only being here a WEEK, wtf.
On October 29 2009 02:57 food wrote: Right now I work in Brockton, MA. A lot of blacks around. Mostly decent houses. No visible poverty, no ghettos. Everyone is busy with their lives. Nice schools. Who do we blame here.
I work in Brockton as well and I think the city is worse than you are making it out to be. Hard drug use is prevalent as well as visible signs of poverty due to the unemployment office. I've seen people get the shit kicked out of them and left bloody on the side walk...I really don't know what part of Brockton you are talking about with all these "decent houses" and "no visible poverty".
Ive been there for a week and i didnt see any of that.
On October 29 2009 11:37 ElectroEnd wrote: My only question is when you've seen these people get the shit kicked out of them...and left bloody on the sidewalk...you did nothing? good samaritan.... *sarcasm*
Im sure hes bullshitting, the town isnt anywhere as bad as he makes it out to be and theres no ghetto or anything like that. Even if its true, crime exists in every town, that wasnt the point at all.
I've lived here for 15 years and you have been here a week. You know nothing about the city of Brockton. It used to be all white...but then the unemployment office moved to white avenue and then the number of minorities started to increase. People get shot in parts of Brockton and I'm not going to risk my life to save someone I don't know...and don't act all high and mighty as if you would do something else in the same situation....oh and I didn't see him being left...I saw him being attacked...I was told that he was just left...obviously If I saw a guy by himself I would do something. This happened right on main street near st. edith stein church...I can't believe you think you know a place from only being here a WEEK, wtf.
You said nothing about people getting shot, only that you've seen a person get the shit kicked out of them and left there (basically you walked away and heard they were left there? even worse). I'm not trying to act all high and mighty, and I've actually been in a position where someone got jumped by three people and I stepped in. If you've seen someone get shot you're in the wrong part of town, and that's pretty damn retarded if you tried to jump in on a gun fight, so I understand no involvement in that. I'm glad you'd do something if you had seen a guy by himself and apparently all messed up.
Back to my quote, what you said previously just made you seem like a pussy imo. That's just based on what you wrote though.
On October 29 2009 02:57 food wrote: Right now I work in Brockton, MA. A lot of blacks around. Mostly decent houses. No visible poverty, no ghettos. Everyone is busy with their lives. Nice schools. Who do we blame here.
I work in Brockton as well and I think the city is worse than you are making it out to be. Hard drug use is prevalent as well as visible signs of poverty due to the unemployment office. I've seen people get the shit kicked out of them and left bloody on the side walk...I really don't know what part of Brockton you are talking about with all these "decent houses" and "no visible poverty".
Ive been there for a week and i didnt see any of that.
On October 29 2009 11:37 ElectroEnd wrote: My only question is when you've seen these people get the shit kicked out of them...and left bloody on the sidewalk...you did nothing? good samaritan.... *sarcasm*
Im sure hes bullshitting, the town isnt anywhere as bad as he makes it out to be and theres no ghetto or anything like that. Even if its true, crime exists in every town, that wasnt the point at all.
I've lived here for 15 years and you have been here a week. You know nothing about the city of Brockton. It used to be all white...but then the unemployment office moved to white avenue and then the number of minorities started to increase. People get shot in parts of Brockton and I'm not going to risk my life to save someone I don't know...and don't act all high and mighty as if you would do something else in the same situation....oh and I didn't see him being left...I saw him being attacked...I was told that he was just left...obviously If I saw a guy by himself I would do something. This happened right on main street near st. edith stein church...I can't believe you think you know a place from only being here a WEEK, wtf.
You said nothing about people getting shot, only that you've seen a person get the shit kicked out of them and left there (basically you walked away and heard they were left there? even worse). I'm not trying to act all high and mighty, and I've actually been in a position where someone got jumped by three people and I stepped in. If you've seen someone get shot you're in the wrong part of town, and that's pretty damn retarded if you tried to jump in on a gun fight, so I understand no involvement in that. I'm glad you'd do something if you had seen a guy by himself and apparently all messed up.
Back to my quote, what you said previously just made you seem like a pussy imo. That's just based on what you wrote though.
And based on what you wrote, you seem like a guy that has trouble with reading comprehension. I was saying that because people get shot in parts of Brockton I am not going to take the risk of getting shot by interfering. I never said that I saw anyone get shot, but I read the newspaper and have lived in the area long enough to know that it happens.
I have trouble with reading comprehension or understanding what you said? really? This is your original post that I responded to
"I work in Brockton as well and I think the city is worse than you are making it out to be. Hard drug use is prevalent as well as visible signs of poverty due to the unemployment office. I've seen people get the shit kicked out of them and left bloody on the side walk...I really don't know what part of Brockton you are talking about with all these "decent houses" and "no visible poverty".
I responded to this, and you had a completely new response about people getting shot. That is below:
"I've lived here for 15 years and you have been here a week. You know nothing about the city of Brockton. It used to be all white...but then the unemployment office moved to white avenue and then the number of minorities started to increase. People get shot in parts of Brockton and I'm not going to risk my life to save someone I don't know...and don't act all high and mighty as if you would do something else in the same situation....oh and I didn't see him being left...I saw him being attacked...I was told that he was just left...obviously If I saw a guy by himself I would do something. This happened right on main street near st. edith stein church...I can't believe you think you know a place from only being here a WEEK, wtf."
Out of this response of yours copy and pasted above with no changes, I take it your reply to my post was this:
"People get shot in parts of Brockton and I'm not going to risk my life to save someone I don't know...and don't act all high and mighty as if you would do something else in the same situation....oh and I didn't see him being left...I saw him being attacked...I was told that he was just left...obviously If I saw a guy by himself I would do something."
You went from people getting their ass kicked and left in the street to > people getting shot in parts of where you live, and from seeing people getting attacked, afterward you walk away. Then instead of seeing someone left there you leave and get informed by another party that the guy was left there.
I'm not sure I have the problem. You just wrote shitty, and seem to come up with new information to fill your holes every time you reply again. *shakes head*
Brockton is a breeze. 3 people just got shot in Hyannis, 1 minute away from my house, i can link news report. Does this mean Cape Cod goes hard? ROFL. Id give you a candy so please stop stressing out. Also i can link you statistics since you had me dig it up, brockton is around nationwide level on everything with "aggravated assault" being at 0%. Who cares? We are discussing opportunity in this particular case and blacks in your quiet town( ok its wild) have it all along.
LOL whenever someone starts the sentence with "people get shot.." it makes me laugh. It is humourous considering people get shot EVERYWHERE besides Alaska( and only because you cant shoot anyone in the dark)
Black people can be racist lol, never been called a cracker before? Pretty sure that in some way shape or form is racism right? It's not super bad or anything, but is based on race?
ive actually heard this thrown around quite a bit on a hip hop forum for years. The people who say it though are all on some back to africa egyptian shit. Also thats talking strictly in american terms. So asians cant be racist in the US but they can be immediately if they set foot in asia etc.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5228/smugface.gif)
For my future childrens sake tho, I hope we'll be a more enlightened bunch as a race (human race, thank you) by the time the "white man falls from grace".
![[image loading]](http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/TAF2632.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.amani-tours.com/images/stone_town1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.ecaboverde.com/data/media/27/Porto_Novo_Santo_Antao_028.jpg)
