If you're a white person and you're reading this just entertain my thinking for a second
If a black guy gave a speech about social equality and he was passionate, he could be offhand dismissed as an angry black man. If a lesbian gave a speech about sexual equality, she could be called butch or whatever.
If a white guy does it, he can't really be labeled as part of a group. He is judged by his own merits. So it makes sense that only white people can be racist (white men specifically) because we're the ones who dish out the labels.
That doesn't mean other groups can't be hateful or spiteful because of race...I guess it comes down to definitions. When I think other groups can be racist towards me they have the ability to dislike me because of race (which I think is racism) but its really called something else.
And as for those black girls in your english class, you make it sound like they jumped on you. They probably did, but then that white guy probably pissed them off and he (+ you too) couldn't realize why. It's really, really hard to actually understand what its like to be a minority if you're white in America. It's even harder to explain it eloquently and clearly.
And the hardest thing of all, especially for white american males, is humility. I've been blessed with a multicultural perspective my entire life so I know what I say is generally true in our society. Next time in english class, don't be petty. Be polite and patient, and try not to offend. Make it clear to them that you realize theres a divide but that its hard for you to understand, but you're willing to listen and to try to learn. But really, whatever those black girls are saying, listen closely and just try to grasp at it. Don't just dismiss it if it makes you angry at first.
On October 29 2009 00:02 KurtistheTurtle wrote: If you're a white person and you're reading this just entertain my thinking for a second
If a black guy gave a speech about social equality and he was passionate, he could be offhand dismissed as an angry black man. If a lesbian gave a speech about sexual equality, she could be called butch or whatever.
If a white guy does it, he can't really be labeled as part of a group. He is judged by his own merits. So it makes sense that only white people can be racist (white men specifically) because we're the ones who dish out the labels.
That doesn't mean other groups can't be hateful or spiteful because of race...I guess it comes down to definitions. When I think other groups can be racist towards me they have the ability to dislike me because of race (which I think is racism) but its really called something else.
And as for those black girls in your english class, you make it sound like they jumped on you. They probably did, but then that white guy probably pissed them off and he (+ you too) couldn't realize why. It's really, really hard to actually understand what its like to be a minority if you're white in America. It's even harder to explain it eloquently and clearly.
And the hardest thing of all, especially for white american males, is humility. I've been blessed with a multicultural perspective my entire life so I know what I say is generally true in our society. Next time in english class, don't be petty. Be polite and patient, and try not to offend. Make it clear to them that you realize theres a divide but that its hard for you to understand, but you're willing to listen and to try to learn. But really, whatever those black girls are saying, listen closely and just try to grasp at it. Don't just dismiss it if it makes you angry at first.
I agree with pretty much everything but your third graph
rac·ism
NOUN:
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
There's nothing in the definition of racism that says it's white male only or that it's only racism if the hatred based on race allows for one to be disadvantaged in some fashion. Yeah, whites are generally the ones capable of having racism do more than just hurting feelings, but contorting the accepted definition of racism to fit that doesn't make it correct, even if some ultra-liberal professors are pushing it down the throats of students.
On October 28 2009 09:41 koreasilver wrote: ... schools are more segregated than 30 years ago, with more than 80% of African-American schools facing concentrated levels of poverty. When understanding the US system of school funding depending on the economic prosperity of the district, it is sufficient to say that African-American schools are not only segregated but continue to be highly unequal. It is therefore not surprising that with limited resources and poor quality teaching, the students are performing in general below standards. However, lower educational quality and achievement will directly and indirectly again keep African-Americans in place, as those being able to only achieve lesser levels of education and find less prestigious jobs will, as a consequence, perpetuate for whites and unfortunately some African-Americans the biases and negative images surrounding African-American people. Furthermore, the draw back of affirmative action and the allowance of segregated and therefore unequal schools for African-Americans are clear indicators of the deteriorating situation for the African-American underclass and an increasingly difficult situation for middle class African-Americans, as society and its sociological structures seems in direct and indirect terms to further and further limit their opportunities and upward mobility.
This is another bright example of what the black chick in OP was stating. Article ignores so many things its ridiculous. A lot of black people live in poor districts thus going to schools with bad funding. Again, many people that attend there are so ignorant and careless for education none of those schools can be successfully renovated and well maintained. Obviously with that level of education you cannot get a decent job and its true for anyone; if anything an employer expects less from a black to begin with thus lowering the hiring standard( call it racism but fuck, 90% of them wouldnt get a competitive job otherwise)
edit: biochemist stated a lot of this above me
Lets just completely ignore the history of why a lot of black people live in poor districts, and the fact that the federal government doesn't give these black areas proper funding at all while these middle-upper class white areas get much better everything. This is kinda like how Canada wasn't doing shit for many First Nation communities and these people were suffering from completely disgusting deterioration of public facilities. A lot of Aboriginals still live in poverty in Canada because of the discrimination they receive, and yet so many people sling insults at them because of how they are exempt from taxes and some other benefits, yet they completely ignore that they continue to be extremely marginalized.
Do you really think that these people are completely responsible for their living conditions? The fact that you portray these minorities that live in poverty in such a low manner baffles me. You're talking as if these people are a completely lesser breed when the reason as to why they live and continue to live in these "degenerate" ways is due to the nature of the environment that they have been left in with little to no way of getting out properly. The exact same thing happens with any kind of people that are tossed to the bottom and stepped on by any society be they black, white, whatever. If you can't understand this then you're simply nothing but a fool.
On October 28 2009 10:13 eMbrace wrote: Ok well for this particular case you would be better off saying, "most white people" don't understand this type of situation, as there are indeed poor white people who grow up in identical situations and go to the schools like the one the article mentions.
if you are born into a community like that, no matter what race you are -- you are in for a tough childhood.
is it really a grand conspiracy by powerful white people who all want to keep the black man down in poverty so they can't become educated?
perhaps, or is it just our government's failure to fix a not so easy situation that many modern countries face as well? what if the government fixed up a school real nice (like it was for white kids, right?), would this change the environment it's placed in? i don't feel that it would. I don't feel that kids would suddenly treat school differently-- not even suburban white kids feel their education is important until their parents get on their ass in highschool.
blacks and hispanics continue to show the worst testing results in quality public schools as well -- while asians and indians show higher results than the white population (this is where the stereotypes come from).
which is why a well-educated black or latino has a world of opportunity made for them.
i'm not saying it is their skin color that's holding them back, otherwise I'd be a racist 0_o -- but there is a history behind the culture of many black people that has led to these problems, and while a big one is the discrimination felt in the past -- it is not the ultimate excuse for not being successful.
the problem is the poor community, where everyone (many of your own race) is indirectly dragging you down.
basically, if I was going to be born into a shit neighborhood -- I'd rather be a minority than a majority.
I'm glad you are being thoughtful in your discussion, I had to read your post a few times to not be offended and try to really understand what you were saying. I don't think there is a government conspiracy to keep minorities down, but there are past government and social occurrences that still have a major effect today on minorities. here is an example in this video from pbs.
There are other instances like this, such as white flight beginning in the 1950's which had a dramatic impact on inner cities that you find today.
I would agree that a well educated black or hispanic kid has the world of opportunity but so does a white kid of course, it's just that getting to that point is slightly more difficult for minorities in inner city schools, and of course for those white kids living there as well.
Furthermore, in terms of education, I do not think it is so much kids not caring about education, especially in inner cities. It is the environment in which these kids live in, single parent households, shitty neighborhoods, having to pass by drug dealers every time you go to the store to get some milk or whatever else, and not to mention gangs, these kids get caught in a cycle that is very hard to break and I don't think that should be understated because it is very hard to relate to when you have not experienced it yourself. They have lots of stress to deal with and that isn't the greatest learning environment, or they are trying to learn in a setting where being smart is looked down upon by the other kids.
I also think it's more institutionalized racism than individual racism these days, and I think that's obvious
U.S. Incarceration rates of black males per 100k population in 2005 were 5.5 times higher than in South Africa during Apartheid. 4682 u.s. 2005/851 S.A. 1993 = 5.502 Lifetime risks of current incarceration in 2003 were 32.3% for black males and 5.9% for white males, hispanics were at 17.2% (Bonczar, BJS, 2003)
I do think that these days though we have more of a problem with class issues rather than racial, but the impacts of the past are still with us, it hasn't been that long since 1964. Anyway I kind of rambled on but that's my 2 cents.
One recommendation, I think you should go speak with that professor to get a better understanding of what he exactly meant to clear up confusion, messages often get muddled by those listening.
On October 29 2009 00:02 KurtistheTurtle wrote: If you're a white person and you're reading this just entertain my thinking for a second
If a black guy gave a speech about social equality and he was passionate, he could be offhand dismissed as an angry black man. If a lesbian gave a speech about sexual equality, she could be called butch or whatever.
If a white guy does it, he can't really be labeled as part of a group. He is judged by his own merits. So it makes sense that only white people can be racist (white men specifically) because we're the ones who dish out the labels.
That doesn't mean other groups can't be hateful or spiteful because of race...I guess it comes down to definitions. When I think other groups can be racist towards me they have the ability to dislike me because of race (which I think is racism) but its really called something else.
And as for those black girls in your english class, you make it sound like they jumped on you. They probably did, but then that white guy probably pissed them off and he (+ you too) couldn't realize why. It's really, really hard to actually understand what its like to be a minority if you're white in America. It's even harder to explain it eloquently and clearly.
And the hardest thing of all, especially for white american males, is humility. I've been blessed with a multicultural perspective my entire life so I know what I say is generally true in our society. Next time in english class, don't be petty. Be polite and patient, and try not to offend. Make it clear to them that you realize theres a divide but that its hard for you to understand, but you're willing to listen and to try to learn. But really, whatever those black girls are saying, listen closely and just try to grasp at it. Don't just dismiss it if it makes you angry at first.
Bullshit. White people are labeled as part of a group all the time. I have heard and referred to white people as "guilou" "gaijin" "crackers" "WASPs" "whiteys" "wiggas" and "razy irriterate americans." You can't honestly be saying that heterosexual straight white men are not categorized in groups-I just did it right there.
Here's the thing: the very idea that they say that only white people can be racist, further perpetuates that stupid, stupid white guilt that plagues America. White guilt has caused so much stupid shit to happen, and it's very annoying when dumb Americans pretend that they are "not racist" and try to justify it by overcompensating for it. You yourself accuse people of being too assuming and unable to comprehend-hence the divide, but at the same time you seem to fail to recognize that it's not just the white kids who are at fault here. The black girls are just as much responsible as the white kids are for the misconceptions and misunderstandings, and blaming it solely on the white people isn't going to make things right.
Let's take a look at slavery. Slavery was seen by the white people as being a boon to black people, not as a way to torture them. For white people, the idea was that they weren't exploiting people, but that they were helping to culture and incorporate black people into civilization, and that it was a good thing. This is, of course, a huge fucking misconception. But at the same time, black people did not really demonstrate that they were better off than they were under slavery-rather than accuse it of being bad for black people and humanity in general,they criticized it as being "amoral," an attack that doesn't work too well when white man's burden was the phlilosophy de jour.
The South Park Episode on "N*ggers," for instance, sums it up quite well. First of all, when people refer to people as being racist, they don't actually appreciate what's going on, as seen by how the black characters tend to be completely silent and looking angry the entire time. Likewise, the fact that we denigrate people as being racist as much as we imagine racists treat people is just as bad. Until we can stop being hypocrites on discrimination overall, we can't make generalizations about any types of discrimination.
On October 28 2009 10:13 eMbrace wrote: Ok well for this particular case you would be better off saying, "most white people" don't understand this type of situation, as there are indeed poor white people who grow up in identical situations and go to the schools like the one the article mentions.
if you are born into a community like that, no matter what race you are -- you are in for a tough childhood.
is it really a grand conspiracy by powerful white people who all want to keep the black man down in poverty so they can't become educated?
perhaps, or is it just our government's failure to fix a not so easy situation that many modern countries face as well? what if the government fixed up a school real nice (like it was for white kids, right?), would this change the environment it's placed in? i don't feel that it would. I don't feel that kids would suddenly treat school differently-- not even suburban white kids feel their education is important until their parents get on their ass in highschool.
blacks and hispanics continue to show the worst testing results in quality public schools as well -- while asians and indians show higher results than the white population (this is where the stereotypes come from).
which is why a well-educated black or latino has a world of opportunity made for them.
i'm not saying it is their skin color that's holding them back, otherwise I'd be a racist 0_o -- but there is a history behind the culture of many black people that has led to these problems, and while a big one is the discrimination felt in the past -- it is not the ultimate excuse for not being successful.
the problem is the poor community, where everyone (many of your own race) is indirectly dragging you down.
basically, if I was going to be born into a shit neighborhood -- I'd rather be a minority than a majority.
I'm glad you are being thoughtful in your discussion, I had to read your post a few times to not be offended and try to really understand what you were saying. I don't think there is a government conspiracy to keep minorities down, but there are past government and social occurrences that still have a major effect today on minorities. here is an example in this video from pbs.
There are other instances like this, such as white flight beginning in the 1950's which had a dramatic impact on inner cities that you find today.
I would agree that a well educated black or hispanic kid has the world of opportunity but so does a white kid of course, it's just that getting to that point is slightly more difficult for minorities in inner city schools, and of course for those white kids living there as well.
Furthermore, in terms of education, I do not think it is so much kids not caring about education, especially in inner cities. It is the environment in which these kids live in, single parent households, shitty neighborhoods, having to pass by drug dealers every time you go to the store to get some milk or whatever else, and not to mention gangs, these kids get caught in a cycle that is very hard to break and I don't think that should be understated because it is very hard to relate to when you have not experienced it yourself. They have lots of stress to deal with and that isn't the greatest learning environment, or they are trying to learn in a setting where being smart is looked down upon by the other kids. I also think it's more institutionalized racism than individual racism these days, and I think that's obvious
U.S. Incarceration rates of black males per 100k population in 2005 were 5.5 times higher than in South Africa during Apartheid. 4682 u.s. 2005/851 S.A. 1993 = 5.502 Lifetime risks of current incarceration in 2003 were 32.3% for black males and 5.9% for white males, hispanics were at 17.2% (Bonczar, BJS, 2003)
I do think that these days though we have more of a problem with class issues rather than racial, but the impacts of the past are still with us, it hasn't been that long since 1964. Anyway I kind of rambled on but that's my 2 cents.
One recommendation, I think you should go speak with that professor to get a better understanding of what he exactly meant to clear up confusion, messages often get muddled by those listening.
On October 28 2009 09:41 koreasilver wrote: ... schools are more segregated than 30 years ago, with more than 80% of African-American schools facing concentrated levels of poverty. When understanding the US system of school funding depending on the economic prosperity of the district, it is sufficient to say that African-American schools are not only segregated but continue to be highly unequal. It is therefore not surprising that with limited resources and poor quality teaching, the students are performing in general below standards. However, lower educational quality and achievement will directly and indirectly again keep African-Americans in place, as those being able to only achieve lesser levels of education and find less prestigious jobs will, as a consequence, perpetuate for whites and unfortunately some African-Americans the biases and negative images surrounding African-American people. Furthermore, the draw back of affirmative action and the allowance of segregated and therefore unequal schools for African-Americans are clear indicators of the deteriorating situation for the African-American underclass and an increasingly difficult situation for middle class African-Americans, as society and its sociological structures seems in direct and indirect terms to further and further limit their opportunities and upward mobility.
This is another bright example of what the black chick in OP was stating. Article ignores so many things its ridiculous. A lot of black people live in poor districts thus going to schools with bad funding. Again, many people that attend there are so ignorant and careless for education none of those schools can be successfully renovated and well maintained. Obviously with that level of education you cannot get a decent job and its true for anyone; if anything an employer expects less from a black to begin with thus lowering the hiring standard( call it racism but fuck, 90% of them wouldnt get a competitive job otherwise)
edit: biochemist stated a lot of this above me
Lets just completely ignore the history of why a lot of black people live in poor districts, and the fact that the federal government doesn't give these black areas proper funding at all while these middle-upper class white areas get much better everything.
That's total bull, at least in NJ.
Passaic (cess pool of a city) got $184 million on top of their normal budget, which is made up of local property taxes. Paterson, an even bigger hole, got $389 million. Funding comes from state and fed, I think. Either way, it's not the local tax payers.
Granted, there's way more factors at play than just educational monies (you are a product of your environment, which in this case is the ghetto), but you couldn't be farther from the truth to say that hoods lack proper funding.
On October 29 2009 00:15 Hawk wrote: I agree with pretty much everything but your third graph
rac·ism
NOUN:
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
There's nothing in the definition of racism that says it's white male only or that it's only racism if the hatred based on race allows for one to be disadvantaged in some fashion. Yeah, whites are generally the ones capable of having racism do more than just hurting feelings, but contorting the accepted definition of racism to fit that doesn't make it correct, even if some ultra-liberal professors are pushing it down the throats of students.
I've thought a lot about gender equality, but not that much about race. I'm still grappling with the idea, and the more I think about the dominant/majority race as the only one who can be racist the more it doesn't make sense. And this makes more sense.
On October 29 2009 00:39 Caller wrote: Bullshit. White people are labeled as part of a group all the time. I have heard and referred to white people as "guilou" "gaijin" "crackers" "WASPs" "whiteys" "wiggas" and "razy irriterate americans." You can't honestly be saying that heterosexual straight white men are not categorized in groups-I just did it right there.
Here's the thing: the very idea that they say that only white people can be racist, further perpetuates that stupid, stupid white guilt that plagues America. White guilt has caused so much stupid shit to happen, and it's very annoying when dumb Americans pretend that they are "not racist" and try to justify it by overcompensating for it. You yourself accuse people of being too assuming and unable to comprehend-hence the divide, but at the same time you seem to fail to recognize that it's not just the white kids who are at fault here. The black girls are just as much responsible as the white kids are for the misconceptions and misunderstandings, and blaming it solely on the white people isn't going to make things right.
So what you're saying is that I'm being a wuss and overcompensating because I feel guilty. And that its not all my fault. And then you reference south park lmao
Maybe. I'm gonna take a nap and think about this later.
There's nothing wrong in being racist as long as you have been taught good manners. Even tho I think that on an average scale black people are way stupider than white people and I also think asians are more intelligent than whites it doesn't change the fact that every human being has the same rights and obligations as me. The term itself though doesn't have much to do with power, it just means discrimination by race. So yes, the black guys in op's class who started arguing and screaming fall into the category of stupid people who mix reason with emotions, and can't even grasp a concept so easy such as racism, thinking at its long term consequences instead. Same goes for whoever taught them that bullshit. You should feel sorry for them.
There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, Native Americans, ect. and then there are just Americans.
You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me "Whiteboy," "Cracker," "Honkey," "Whitey," Caveman" and that's OK. But when I call you, Nigger, Kike, Towelhead, Sand-nigger, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink you call me a racist.
You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you, so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?
You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day. You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day. You have Yom Hashoah You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi You have the NAACP. You have BET.
If we had WET(White Entertainment Television) we'd be racists.
If we had a White Pride Day you would call us racists. If we had White History Month, we'd be racists. If we had any organization for only whites to "advance" our lives, we'd be racists.
We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. Wonder who pays for that?
If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships, you know we'd be racists. There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US, yet if there were "White colleges" that would be a racist college.
In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.
You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.
You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.
On October 28 2009 09:41 koreasilver wrote: ... schools are more segregated than 30 years ago, with more than 80% of African-American schools facing concentrated levels of poverty. When understanding the US system of school funding depending on the economic prosperity of the district, it is sufficient to say that African-American schools are not only segregated but continue to be highly unequal. It is therefore not surprising that with limited resources and poor quality teaching, the students are performing in general below standards. However, lower educational quality and achievement will directly and indirectly again keep African-Americans in place, as those being able to only achieve lesser levels of education and find less prestigious jobs will, as a consequence, perpetuate for whites and unfortunately some African-Americans the biases and negative images surrounding African-American people. Furthermore, the draw back of affirmative action and the allowance of segregated and therefore unequal schools for African-Americans are clear indicators of the deteriorating situation for the African-American underclass and an increasingly difficult situation for middle class African-Americans, as society and its sociological structures seems in direct and indirect terms to further and further limit their opportunities and upward mobility.
This is another bright example of what the black chick in OP was stating. Article ignores so many things its ridiculous. A lot of black people live in poor districts thus going to schools with bad funding. Again, many people that attend there are so ignorant and careless for education none of those schools can be successfully renovated and well maintained. Obviously with that level of education you cannot get a decent job and its true for anyone; if anything an employer expects less from a black to begin with thus lowering the hiring standard( call it racism but fuck, 90% of them wouldnt get a competitive job otherwise)
edit: biochemist stated a lot of this above me
Lets just completely ignore the history of why a lot of black people live in poor districts, and the fact that the federal government doesn't give these black areas proper funding at all while these middle-upper class white areas get much better everything. This is kinda like how Canada wasn't doing shit for many First Nation communities and these people were suffering from completely disgusting deterioration of public facilities. A lot of Aboriginals still live in poverty in Canada because of the discrimination they receive, and yet so many people sling insults at them because of how they are exempt from taxes and some other benefits, yet they completely ignore that they continue to be extremely marginalized.
Do you really think that these people are completely responsible for their living conditions? The fact that you portray these minorities that live in poverty in such a low manner baffles me. You're talking as if these people are a completely lesser breed when the reason as to why they live and continue to live in these "degenerate" ways is due to the nature of the environment that they have been left in with little to no way of getting out properly. The exact same thing happens with any kind of people that are tossed to the bottom and stepped on by any society be they black, white, whatever. If you can't understand this then you're simply nothing but a fool.
I understand exactly what you're saying and you're wrong. I don't care how poor their school districts are, the only thing keeping minorities in poverty is their own lack of ambition. lots of money is being spent on all kinds of programs designed to motivate them. I know a cardiologist who has spent several million dollars (much of it his own) on a program that has professionals get inner city kids excited about where education can take them. There are more scholarships for minorities, and the standards for acceptance into college are easier. The officer corps of all of the military branches even spend more time actively recruting minorities. The incentives and programs are out there, and they're accessible to anyone. Unfortunately when a kid only wants to grow up to be a gang banger and his parents support this, there's nothing you can do. It's a self-perpetuating culture.
You think that throwing more money at minority school districts is suddenly going to solve the problem and within a generation we'll have a happy, balanced, homogenous society? I can't believe you can take that stance and then call other people fools.
No, money on its own doesn't do anything. I have never once claimed I know what needs to be done. I only believe that I know some areas that are wrong.
On October 29 2009 02:10 koreasilver wrote: No, money on its own doesn't do anything. I have never once claimed I know what needs to be done. I only believe that I know some areas that are wrong.
Ah, well it seemed from your posts that you were blaming the problem on the fiscal difference. If it were that easy, we probably would have solved this problem a LONG time ago.
On October 28 2009 09:41 koreasilver wrote: ... schools are more segregated than 30 years ago, with more than 80% of African-American schools facing concentrated levels of poverty. When understanding the US system of school funding depending on the economic prosperity of the district, it is sufficient to say that African-American schools are not only segregated but continue to be highly unequal. It is therefore not surprising that with limited resources and poor quality teaching, the students are performing in general below standards. However, lower educational quality and achievement will directly and indirectly again keep African-Americans in place, as those being able to only achieve lesser levels of education and find less prestigious jobs will, as a consequence, perpetuate for whites and unfortunately some African-Americans the biases and negative images surrounding African-American people. Furthermore, the draw back of affirmative action and the allowance of segregated and therefore unequal schools for African-Americans are clear indicators of the deteriorating situation for the African-American underclass and an increasingly difficult situation for middle class African-Americans, as society and its sociological structures seems in direct and indirect terms to further and further limit their opportunities and upward mobility.
This is another bright example of what the black chick in OP was stating. Article ignores so many things its ridiculous. A lot of black people live in poor districts thus going to schools with bad funding. Again, many people that attend there are so ignorant and careless for education none of those schools can be successfully renovated and well maintained. Obviously with that level of education you cannot get a decent job and its true for anyone; if anything an employer expects less from a black to begin with thus lowering the hiring standard( call it racism but fuck, 90% of them wouldnt get a competitive job otherwise)
edit: biochemist stated a lot of this above me
Lets just completely ignore the history of why a lot of black people live in poor districts, and the fact that the federal government doesn't give these black areas proper funding at all while these middle-upper class white areas get much better everything. This is kinda like how Canada wasn't doing shit for many First Nation communities and these people were suffering from completely disgusting deterioration of public facilities. A lot of Aboriginals still live in poverty in Canada because of the discrimination they receive, and yet so many people sling insults at them because of how they are exempt from taxes and some other benefits, yet they completely ignore that they continue to be extremely marginalized.
Do you really think that these people are completely responsible for their living conditions? The fact that you portray these minorities that live in poverty in such a low manner baffles me. You're talking as if these people are a completely lesser breed when the reason as to why they live and continue to live in these "degenerate" ways is due to the nature of the environment that they have been left in with little to no way of getting out properly. The exact same thing happens with any kind of people that are tossed to the bottom and stepped on by any society be they black, white, whatever. If you can't understand this then you're simply nothing but a fool.
I understand exactly what you're saying and you're wrong. I don't care how poor their school districts are, the only thing keeping minorities in poverty is their own lack of ambition. lots of money is being spent on all kinds of programs designed to motivate them. I know a cardiologist who has spent several million dollars (much of it his own) on a program that has professionals get inner city kids excited about where education can take them. There are more scholarships for minorities, and the standards for acceptance into college are easier. The officer corps of all of the military branches even spend more time actively recruting minorities. The incentives and programs are out there, and they're accessible to anyone. Unfortunately when a kid only wants to grow up to be a gang banger and his parents support this, there's nothing you can do. It's a self-perpetuating culture.
I have to completely disagree with your bold statement that the only thing keeping minorities down is their lack of ambition, I think that is pretty ridiculous statement to make, way over simplified, it is dismissive and it does nothing to understand the problem. You can have all these great programs but that doesn't mean anything when they go home to a criminal/drug using culture, it is more than just lack of ambition working counter productively towards their future, these kinds of kids often live in two different worlds trying to walk the tight rope between the street and succeeding in school.
On October 29 2009 00:31 koreasilver wrote: Lets just completely ignore the history of why a lot of black people live in poor districts, and the fact that the federal government doesn't give these black areas proper funding at all while these middle-upper class white areas get much better everything. This is kinda like how Canada wasn't doing shit for many First Nation communities and these people were suffering from completely disgusting deterioration of public facilities. A lot of Aboriginals still live in poverty in Canada because of the discrimination they receive, and yet so many people sling insults at them because of how they are exempt from taxes and some other benefits, yet they completely ignore that they continue to be extremely marginalized.
History should be the last thing for you to cling to. If anything, history improved the living conditions of blacks from tribal slavery to being a part of a democratic society where they get a fair opportunity along with everyone else. If you want to argue that they were better off staying in Africa without intruders ruining their happy existence then why do you bring up Aboriginals in Canada not being able to blend in? Let them be the way they are? Because when they become degenerates from drinking vodka and smoking crack you are going to blame the white world again. People like you need a reason to explain their own inability to achieve anything.
Do you really think that these people are completely responsible for their living conditions? The fact that you portray these minorities that live in poverty in such a low manner baffles me. You're talking as if these people are a completely lesser breed when the reason as to why they live and continue to live in these "degenerate" ways is due to the nature of the environment that they have been left in with little to no way of getting out properly. The exact same thing happens with any kind of people that are tossed to the bottom and stepped on by any society be they black, white, whatever. If you can't understand this then you're simply nothing but a fool.
I dont think they are completely responsible for their living conditions, I do think they have every instrument to change that. Huge part of the white population in the US are second or third generation immigrants, they never had a slave and worked their asses off to rise from the gutter. You cant generalize all the whites, by supporting the claim that white society is racist you are proving your own ignorance and ignorance of those blacks who "gave up" because they are not white. Slavery existed everywhere else but no groups besides african-americans claim to want reparations for having to work "for free". The many cases of genocide and atrocities towards specific ethnicities are rarely brought up as a reasoning nowadays and left behind not to obstruct overall development. History doesnt give you any right to blame anyone for where the american blacks are. In fact none of them would want to return to where they originated from even if you place them in better conditions with infinitely higher social status compared to where their ancestors left off.
On October 29 2009 02:42 XoXiDe wrote: I have to completely disagree with your bold statement that the only thing keeping minorities down is their lack of ambition, I think that is pretty ridiculous statement to make, way over simplified, it is dismissive and it does nothing to understand the problem. You can have all these great programs but that doesn't mean anything when they go home to a criminal/drug using culture, it is more than just lack of ambition working counter productively towards their future, these kinds of kids often live in two different worlds trying to walk the tight rope between the street and succeeding in school.
You are forgetting that this is the debate about white man being the only "real" racist hindering minorities on their way to success. No one says anything about how hard it is to live in a ghetto. Similar places exist all over the world and they dont even correlate with racial discrimination.
Right now I work in Brockton, MA. A lot of blacks around. Mostly decent houses. No visible poverty, no ghettos. Everyone is busy with their lives. Nice schools. Who do we blame here.
So many of you have lived sheltered lives. Otherwise you wouldn't so brainwashed and so stupid as to believe in this white-guilt notion that this thinking of "only whites are racist" is in the least bit justifiable.
EPT
