On October 28 2009 08:40 FabledIntegral wrote: Too much of the typical white response is ignorant in this thread I believe - maybe you have an advantage getting into college - that's about it.
I have a lot more to write on this, but most white people haven't been bitched out or had their shit kicked on the ground on the sole basis of race. In class now, but the white perspective on the matter is absolutely ... uninformed.
So you perfectly know how it is for a white guy to walk into a black store in a black part of town late at night? Shut your trap lol. You never experienced anything threatening besides your schoolmates clowning on your weak ass, dont make yourself a martyr. Nowadays you can easily get your ass whooped for being a "whiteboy". Who else is afraid to walk through a "wrong" part of town solely cuz of their skin color? Dont ever say that someone cant understand how you feel since hes white, this is whats really ignorant. Ive only been in this country for 5 years and ive seen every side of this already.
Fuck off asshole, don't even try to tell me what I've fucking experienced. I never tried to portray myself as a martyr, but thanks for making all these assumptions. Screw off.
The prevalence of discrimination against minorities significantly topples that of what is experienced against whites. What I said was most white people, not all. Most white people have the mindset that discrimination against minorities has disappeared in society in today's age - which is a load of bullshit. Sure white people can get discriminated against if you live in shitty areas or on a very off chance - but racism against minorities is everywhere, whether it's in the shitty areas or the wealthy areas. If you're in the "wrong" part of town you can get your ass kicked no matter what race you are. But even if you're in the "right" part racism still exists.
I never said white people weren't discriminated against - I was referring to the typical white response. Thanks for making your assumptions though, asshole.
On October 29 2009 02:42 XoXiDe wrote: I have to completely disagree with your bold statement that the only thing keeping minorities down is their lack of ambition, I think that is pretty ridiculous statement to make, way over simplified, it is dismissive and it does nothing to understand the problem. You can have all these great programs but that doesn't mean anything when they go home to a criminal/drug using culture, it is more than just lack of ambition working counter productively towards their future, these kinds of kids often live in two different worlds trying to walk the tight rope between the street and succeeding in school.
You are forgetting that this is the debate about white man being the only "real" racist hindering minorities on their way to success. No one says anything about how hard it is to live in a ghetto. Similar places exist all over the world and they dont even correlate with racial discrimination.
Right now I work in Brockton, MA. A lot of blacks around. Mostly decent houses. No visible poverty, no ghettos. Everyone is busy with their lives. Nice schools. Who do we blame here.
You are right I kind of got off track, and I definitely don't think the white man is out to keep minorities down, at least for the majority of the population these days but that doesn't discount historical underpinnings. I don't know what Brockton has to do with what I was discussing, it does seem to be an example of the growth of the black middle class. Here in San Antonio the east side of town used to be the segregated side for blacks, now it's generally a poorer area as it always was, and associated with high gang and criminal activity, same goes with downtown San Antonio right out of the business district are the poor areas, and the homeless, while the wealthy population (all races) has migrated to the suburbs, along with businesses and banks and San Antonio has grown fairly large with business and new construction mostly away from the city center.
My general point is that many of these social problems are a manifestation of past policies and prejudices, not through simple laziness and incompetence. I was also addressing the notion in different posts that this is what is holding black people down. Again, I don't think only whites can be racist, my uncle had a slight problem marrying my aunt because he was white and my grandpa was old school Mexican. I'll just have to agree to disagree with some sentiments in this thread and I won't post again about it.
Back to the girls main thought, or I assume a summation of what she said, of what racism is.
A black girl brought up the question to the professor, "In our black studies class we are learning that the only race that can be racist is white people, because they have the most power (she's referring to the U.S.) -- so while a minority can be prejudice towards white people, they can never actually be racist since they can't put whites on a lower power level. Do you agree with this?"
If her main point is that white people (who apparently have all the power), can only be racist, then I completely disagree with that. A definition I found on dictionary.com is that racism is "the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others." So it basically just boils down to her own definition being different then the general population. Then again, it is in a class for Black Studies where I assume the teacher is African American because the definition seems more of an opinion to me.
Going off the definition that I have quoted, and using the civil rights movement, the civil rights act of 1964,the voting rights act of 1965, as well as educational breakthroughs as a reference. When you take all that into account and look at the current day, I would have to say that there is definitely more equality between whites/blacks.
I've read a bit of some of the posts on the thread, even one poster who said that he was speechless and couldn't think of anything to say, and another saying that people are even racist amongst their own race (I completely agree I constantly see black people using N***A this and my N****A that, which seems so asinine to me because it was so degrading to older black generations in general, and currently it's apparently the coolest thing still). I also noticed that people even got off track talking about equal opportunities (I believe), and how it's still unfair or still racist. I'd like to point out one post that was pretty damn racist in my opinion by FabledIntegral "Too much of the typical white response is ignorant in this thread I believe - maybe you have an advantage getting into college - that's about it."
I believe that he's referring to white people getting into college. Is that so? Black people have a disadvantage in getting into college because of racism? You're also telling me that white people are ignorant of some black peoples' positions/classes/whether they're poor/whether they're rich; it seems like your opinion is that there are no white people who are poor or who don't live in bad homes with bad parents or are around drugs. There also community colleges that offer remedial classes and a chance to get the high school diploma (I believe), financial aid, grants, and loans to help if the problem is financial.
I've spoken about a little that was on my mind. take it for what's worth....if you can.
Wow, people on TL are horribly racist. I would comment but it would be pointless in such a hostile environment.
Did someone on the last page seriously say that black people should be glad they got enslaved because they now live in a better social system? Uh...
Edit : Also, stop quoting the dictionary. It's not a reliable source for definitions of words. No, really. It's fallacious to use the dictionary's definition of a word as a basis for an argument. If you want the definition of a specific word you need to find a philosophical treatise on it, like Foucault does for some words, or find an article that does a fairly in depth look at the origin of it.
On October 29 2009 09:31 Nevuk wrote: Wow, people on TL are horribly racist. I would comment but it would be pointless in such a hostile environment.
Did someone on the last page seriously say that black people should be glad they got enslaved because they now live in a better social system? Uh...
Edit : Also, stop quoting the dictionary. It's not a reliable source for definitions of words. No, really. It's fallacious to use the dictionary's definition of a word as a basis for an argument. If you want the definition of a specific word you need to find a philosophical treatise on it, like Foucault does for some words, or find an article that does a fairly in depth look at the origin of it.
and you guys were like no were accomplishing something here! This is intelligent discussion! ...lol
On October 28 2009 06:46 koreasilver wrote: When it comes to America I can understand the general frustration that many blacks may have because even now blacks are very marginalized by the system. Many whites may believe that minorities have it better than them because of some slight benefits that minorities may have, but that's just utterly retarded because many whites obviously don't realize how bad the prejudices against minorities are even to this day (most significantly, blacks). When I look into the history and society of America, whites seriously are to be blamed for the living standards of blacks, and the subsequent degenerative life that some blacks may be pushed into living. Obviously most people don't really look into it and give it a damn and find it easier to just simply blame the low level minorities of sucking the government of tax money, causing crime, and not working hard enough to become productive citizens. I'm not closely connected to any black communities so I don't really have an intimate idea of how some blacks may think of society and their position in it or how much beliefs may differ amongst themselves, but I can easily see how many, many blacks must be absolutely frustrated and angered at whites.
With all sincerity, most whites simply do not understand minorities. It might be annoying when people say that, but it's true. Whites really don't get it. So many whites think they solved their societal problems when it comes to race but they don't realize that under the surface shit is still really bad. If you really, really think minorities have it better than whites or even have it on par, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
edit: This doesn't really have to do with the racism discussion of this thread but the things some people have said in this thread just really annoyed me.
Sorry korea Im calling you on this.
Blacks are not marginalized by the system. Take my college experience- I had black friends who were accepted to a college when my other white friends who had higher GPA and SAT scores were denied. I know this as fact, because my black friend thought that it was rather funny and shared his scores with me. Affirmative action is a bitch, and frankly if you are a black person and can get out of college with a useful degree finding a job is not a problem.
Whites are not to be blamed for the living standards of blacks. The only thing that white people did many many years ago was red lining. However this is a thing of the past, and is certainly not carried on today. If you want to point the finger as to why many black people live in delapidated housing and in poor community's, the answer lies within the Kennedy and Clinton administration, along with the actions of the community members themselves.
Black people are never forced into that condition- it is simply a lack of education, and the lack of a strong family values. The black culture in America perpetuates the idea that the only way to succeed is to become a rapper, or a basket ball player. Education is never an option and being smart is not cool. The lack of appropriate values and the lack of parental teaching or proper morals is not in the typical black family. This is because of parents having children out of wedlock, incarcerated, dead, or having to work 2+ dead end jobs to try and make ends meet. It's no wonder why their kids end up on the street- perpetuating the cycle again and again. Black culture is simply a product of the environment that black kids were brought up in.
The only reason a black person would ever be frustrated with a white person is if the black person came from a terrible community, and or had no form of education. I can guarantee you that any middle class or upper class black person has no problem with the white neighbors. It is always the lower class fools.
as for whites not understanding blacks, i couldn't agree with you more. However enough is enough. it is common knowledge that this country was built on the backs of black people, and that slavery and the treatment of black people in the south a crime against humanity. the only problem with black people still carrying that baggage is that- i had nothing to do with it, my parents had nothing to do with it, and my kids most certainly will not have anything to do with it. The past should stay in the past, and frankly it's a huge copout when a black person pulls the slavery card. Because i can guarantee you that slavery has nothing to do with the modern day black persons plight.
Do minorities have it better than whites? Yes and no. It really depends on the minority that you ask. My friend from middle school is on a full ride to UW Madison- because her last name is Rameirez. Funny thing is, she is not hispanic. At the same time- If I a Midwestern white person would go to apply for a job on the coast- i can guarantee you that i would get the job over any white/black/pink/purple person.
Korea you live in Canada, have you ever been to Chicago? Milwaukee? Detroit? I go to school in Milwaukee the murder capitol of the Midwest (yes it has a higher murder rate than Chicago) and i can tell you from experience, that the biggest obstacle black people face- are themselves.
Very true. People come to America from other countries with nothing or and have nothing but their own hard work and determination. There are tons of success stories out there, people shouldn't be languishing in ghettos. I think that it's about a lack of motivation and a set of bad values.
On October 28 2009 08:16 Rice wrote: in my limited experience Ive found black people to be much less accepting of other races than white people.
This is very true in my experience too. Black people in general seem to be more racist and unpleasant than any other people, although I have black friends who are just as nice as anyone else.
On October 28 2009 05:38 TheAntZ wrote: White people hardly are racist anymore, black people are the most racist people in the world now.
A truer statement couldn't have been made. How many times do you see white people pulling the race card out? Some people need to get out of the the 1800's and realize that this is 2009.
On October 29 2009 02:57 food wrote: Right now I work in Brockton, MA. A lot of blacks around. Mostly decent houses. No visible poverty, no ghettos. Everyone is busy with their lives. Nice schools. Who do we blame here.
I work in Brockton as well and I think the city is worse than you are making it out to be. Hard drug use is prevalent as well as visible signs of poverty due to the unemployment office. I've seen people get the shit kicked out of them and left bloody on the side walk...I really don't know what part of Brockton you are talking about with all these "decent houses" and "no visible poverty".
On October 29 2009 02:57 food wrote: Right now I work in Brockton, MA. A lot of blacks around. Mostly decent houses. No visible poverty, no ghettos. Everyone is busy with their lives. Nice schools. Who do we blame here.
I work in Brockton as well and I think the city is worse than you are making it out to be. Hard drug use is prevalent as well as visible signs of poverty due to the unemployment office. I've seen people get the shit kicked out of them and left bloody on the side walk...I really don't know what part of Brockton you are talking about with all these "decent houses" and "no visible poverty".
My only question is when you've seen these people get the shit kicked out of them...and left bloody on the sidewalk...you did nothing? good samaritan.... *sarcasm*
On October 29 2009 02:57 food wrote: Right now I work in Brockton, MA. A lot of blacks around. Mostly decent houses. No visible poverty, no ghettos. Everyone is busy with their lives. Nice schools. Who do we blame here.
I work in Brockton as well and I think the city is worse than you are making it out to be. Hard drug use is prevalent as well as visible signs of poverty due to the unemployment office. I've seen people get the shit kicked out of them and left bloody on the side walk...I really don't know what part of Brockton you are talking about with all these "decent houses" and "no visible poverty".
Ive been there for a week and i didnt see any of that. Point is - there are nice neighborhoods too where blacks are making it and those are prevalent. Are you saying brockton is a ghetto where you have no future since you growing up among killers and drug dealers? Please, its MA. I gave this example since Ive noticed how many blacks live there but you can take any town around that area.
On October 29 2009 11:37 ElectroEnd wrote: My only question is when you've seen these people get the shit kicked out of them...and left bloody on the sidewalk...you did nothing? good samaritan.... *sarcasm*
Im sure hes bullshitting, the town isnt anywhere as bad as he makes it out to be and theres no ghetto or anything like that. Even if its true, crime exists in every town, that wasnt the point at all.
On October 28 2009 08:40 FabledIntegral wrote: Too much of the typical white response is ignorant in this thread I believe - maybe you have an advantage getting into college - that's about it.
I have a lot more to write on this, but most white people haven't been bitched out or had their shit kicked on the ground on the sole basis of race. In class now, but the white perspective on the matter is absolutely ... uninformed.
So you perfectly know how it is for a white guy to walk into a black store in a black part of town late at night? Shut your trap lol. You never experienced anything threatening besides your schoolmates clowning on your weak ass, dont make yourself a martyr. Nowadays you can easily get your ass whooped for being a "whiteboy". Who else is afraid to walk through a "wrong" part of town solely cuz of their skin color? Dont ever say that someone cant understand how you feel since hes white, this is whats really ignorant. Ive only been in this country for 5 years and ive seen every side of this already.
Fuck off asshole, don't even try to tell me what I've fucking experienced. I never tried to portray myself as a martyr, but thanks for making all these assumptions. Screw off.
The prevalence of discrimination against minorities significantly topples that of what is experienced against whites. What I said was most white people, not all. Most white people have the mindset that discrimination against minorities has disappeared in society in today's age - which is a load of bullshit. Sure white people can get discriminated against if you live in shitty areas or on a very off chance - but racism against minorities is everywhere, whether it's in the shitty areas or the wealthy areas. If you're in the "wrong" part of town you can get your ass kicked no matter what race you are. But even if you're in the "right" part racism still exists.
I never said white people weren't discriminated against - I was referring to the typical white response. Thanks for making your assumptions though, asshole.
You speak about minorities as if they were treated all the same. What about when minorities are racist against each other, both on an institutional and personal level? Many do not have the luxury of belonging to the favored groups.
everyone should watch "color of fear"--a documentary on the issues that are being debated in this thread. the documentary is set up in the format of a discussion circle with two members of african americans, asians, caucasians, and latinos present. a highly thought provoking documentary with some very, very passionate discussions, it's a doc i highly recommend it to everyone.
On October 29 2009 09:31 Nevuk wrote: Did someone on the last page seriously say that black people should be glad they got enslaved because they now live in a better social system? Uh...
But isn't that a legit opinion? If Africans were never touched by europeans and brought to America by then-Americans, the whole Africa would be in a very hard situation right, with no clean water, healthy food, modern clothes, remedies. Did you see all the starvation and brutal poverty pictures from Africa? Modern African-Americans are in very good conditions now, compared to what would be if they just stayed in Africa. Is this not true?
EPT
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