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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On June 16 2011 22:49 iGrok wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 22:10 Kurumi wrote:On June 16 2011 22:05 Munk-E wrote:
I feel bad for xkcd. He did that epicly long post and then still got lynched. He actually defended himself and still got lynched,while iGrok just fled. Read the QT. If we'd had an accurate vote count, I would've come back with a claim, causing chaos and a ton of shit. There were contigencies for whether or not that saved me for a day (I knew I would be dead by day 3, though there were even contingencies for if I lived past that. Me leaving the thread for an extended period accomplished its goal of letting other people talk, bring up other targets, and almost succeeded in getting xkcd lynched instead of me. Mafia had really good planning, a completely disorganized town, and all of that was ruined by the xkcd/me fiasco and modkills.
lol, glad i screwed up ur evilmaster plan.
It was a good game all, though the modkills were sad 
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I skimmed through this game, a few things.
Why are some of you such dicks? :O It's just a game no need to be all douchey.
Kurumi I dunno wtf you were doing, I honestly thought you were village idiot or something.
Modkills suck, all in all I think scum played a decent game and reading your quicktopic has only made me feel more for your plight.
GJ hosting MZ, the votecount thing sucks but it happens to the best of us, otherwise everything was very well done. ^.^
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On June 16 2011 21:44 Barundar wrote:
I haven't read the game, but Kurumi is by far the most chaotic player I have played with. It's not all bad though, sometimes throwing stones around provides results. What did he do that was so terrible?
On June 16 2011 21:10 supersoft wrote:
I don't know where all the hate for Kurumi comes from. Everyone has his own playstyle. I like Kurumis style. He is unpredictable and that's not a bad thing in mafia.
Playing with kurumi is like playing one of those obnoxious terrans who SCV rushes you and flies their CC into a corner of the map and then BMs you while you waste 10-15 minutes realizing exactly what he did then tech up to void ray/corruptor/viking to go deal with him. Sure it's technically a way to play but it isn't good play, it isn't a winning strategy and it is really annoying to just about everyone else. His actions don't help town, as they're a huge distraction which can lead town to waste a vote on him or some random townie. His actions don't help the mafia as they are far too disorganized and devoid of strategy. He's basically just the village idiot who you have to learn to ignore.
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My thoughts in red.
On June 16 2011 16:22 Pyo wrote:EDIT: spilered the quotes since the post was really long and the game is over. Some thoughts on the thoughts: + Show Spoiler +On June 16 2011 13:13 GGQ wrote:
-so Day 2, happily things started out pretty much as I would have tried to make them go if I was still alive. iGrok is being pressured hard (cheers for those who took up the torch!), forcing a two-person vote that was tight from the very start of the day. This should force mafia out, first to try to divert votes, then to try to defend iGrok to keep him alive.
At first I got on iGrok's trail because he was being a jerk. It wasn't until the first night after reading your post that it really occurred to me, he wasn't being an arrogant douche per se, he was just trying to sheep people. At this point I was absolutely sure he was mafia, but wasn't sure exactly how to proceed given that I was a little worried about coming off too obviously town and didn't want to get night hit. IMO, you should never be afraid of getting night hit as a green. If you get night hit, then you are doing it right.+ Show Spoiler +
-for those who arent convinced iGrok is scum, here’s a thought process that you should have in a situation like this. The votes are close. Very close, and they have been all day. There’s been no serious attempt to split votes and distract the town. That means mafia aren’t fucking around. One of the two players, iGrok or amazingxkcd, is scum and the mafia are trying to save him. A surprising number of people are actually considering that both of them are scum. What? Really? How does that make sense? What’s the mafia’s plan then? IF they were both scum, you can bet that the thread and the voting list would look MUCH different. There would be accusations flying in every direction creating WIFOM if one of them actually got lynched. Plus they would definitely be bussing each other to make the other look better when lynched. Instead we have xkcd defending iGrok and iGrok pretty much ignoring xkcd. No, only one is scum. You need to look at who is getting sketchier people defending him. In this vote, the sketchier people are defending iGrok and voting for amazingxkcd. Thus we lynch iGrok.
I was definitely one of those guilty of thinking that they were both mafia. Mostly this was because I was lazy and didn't really think it through, but part of it was me being confused by xkcd's excessively long analysis post filled with bad analysis. I remembered iGrok doing something like it on day 1, so I wasn't really sure what to think about him. I've tried to stress that it's much less about WHAT people do than about HOW and WHY they do them.+ Show Spoiler +
-for those who already believe iGrok is scum, this close lynch should only confirm that for you. Mafia are scrambling to win this lynch. That means you need to look carefully at who is defending him or just avoiding analyzing him. Naturally, some townies will be defending him, but these will generally at least explain their thoughts and reasoning in a believable manner (though it can be hard to identify that in a game full of new players...). As it turns out, almost the entire mafia team has already identified themselves in this way (munk-e hasn’t posted on day 2 yet as of the time of this writing...) Read on to see how.
while it turned out that the entire mafia team did vote xkcd to try to save iGrok, I had become very suspect of the mafia and whether they were actually playing optimally or even in their best interest. After all, why would they double hit you (GGQ) on day 1. That just makes no sense at all. Did they really think your analysis was that dangerous that they had to remove you? Given how correct you were, maybe that was something that iGrok et. al. were cognizant of, but it just didn't make much sense. Given this sub-optimal play, all the mafia having voted for xkcd wasn't such a sure thing to me. I kind of would like to know what a more experienced observer/participant thinks about this. Using two hits to double tap a strong town player on night one is pretty common and definitely a valid strategy. It was very possible that Meapak would have made me a veteran so I could stay alive longer to keep helping and teaching the new players. Plus there was still a third medic alive who could have protected me. It's safest to use two hits to eliminate a player that you view as the most dangerous because if he survives the single hit, then he's practically a confirmed townie which just makes him even more dangerous. I actually posted my analysis of iGrok AFTER the hits were sent in btw, he just double-shot me on principle. It turned out that it wasn't necessary this game, but I wouldnt say it was a bad decision.+ Show Spoiler +
-aprudds: probably the hardest one to catch, but the first that should have raised suspicions. While town talk is about iGrok’s suspiciousness and whether to lynch him, aprudds says only that my case on him was good with no further explanation or follow through, then proceeds to throw accusations around on drazerk and xkcd and jackal, trying to find another target. Avoids actually discussing iGrok or the arguments against him. Remember that he defended lafali on day 1 as well
To be honest, he was the first one I was actually suspicious of in the game because of his day 1 accusation of freeloader. In fact I actually voted for him at first. However, iGrok acted more suspicious and given aprudds limited participation, I figured if he is mafia, then at least he's not trying to mislead or confuse town, so he'd be a lower priority lynch. After the day 2 voting fiasco and all the modkills, he kind of just drifted out of my consideration. Fortunately he reappeared on the defend lafali/vote for xkcd list. + Show Spoiler +
-grush, spike, and amazingall: all three bandwagon on xkcd while bringing nothing new against either iGrok or xkcd. Another theme for all three players is that they say something like ‘the case against iGrok is good’ or ‘GGQ’s analysis of iGrok can’t be ignored’ or some shit like that to make it seem like they are at least considering iGrok as a suspect, while in reality they all just vote immediately for xkcd and defended iGrok afterwards. This should ring major alarm bells. They’ve decided before the fact that they are going to defend iGrok and vote xkcd but they don’t want it to look that way
I realized this too, but I really didn't put 2 and 2 together to realize what this meant. The nagging issue of I'm not experienced, so I don't really know how people would normally act/are expected to act really got me here. Fortunately, we got lucky in that they either modkilled themselves or drew enough suspicion from others. + Show Spoiler +
-now, I’m not saying you should have picked these guy out as the scum right away, I doubt I would have gotten all of them either. There were several other people who seemed like they would have been suspicious to me if I didn’t already know the role list. These include impervious who ignored the events of the night and the iGrok issue and instead tried to get everyone to post their experience (“Contributing without contributing”), heist who had his vote on someone irrelevant, and perhaps cherubael for voting xkcd without explanation. Some people suspected Treadmill for constantly defending iGrok, but even though he was wrong about pretty much everything on day 2, the tone and motivation of his posts were clearly townie. But the way that most of the mafia players are making posts trying to make it look like they are doing something that they actually arent should be the red light telling you to lynch them.
lol impervious was on my list too. In any case that's some interesting advice that I'll keep in mind going forward. + Show Spoiler +
-also, jackal is not scummy in this game. Yeah he played quite poorly on day 2, doing more or less nothing. But his decision to lynch rookie on day 1, while it was a poor read, had no mafia motivation; there was no other lynch or valuable discussion going on that needed to be diverted. Votes were split etc etc
I was so sure that he town that it didn't even occur to me that a vigi would kill him. Given that the list of "experienced" mafia players outlined by iGrok, cross-referenced with looking back at old mafia games, it just didn't make sense for both him and iGrok to be mafia. And he was, I was almost sure that jackal would have been the godfather. + Show Spoiler +
-so munk-e ended up coming in at the last moment and finishing the lynch on xkcd instead of iGrok. When iGrok flips red, that’s suspicious enough, but the fact that both days he’s lurked until the very end, then come in with one post and a vote to avoid modkill should raise eyebrows.
I'm really proud of myself for having picked up on this!! seeing lafali modkill himself by voting late and then TheAwesomeALL stating in the ban list thread (I was just looking at his post history) that he had been trying to vote at the last minute but forgot really sealed the deal for me on Munk-E. Unfortunately, I got night killed after pointing this out. -night 2; it should be clear with xkcd flipping town that iGrok must be mafia. vigis should shoot immediately, and investigations should begin into the people who defended iGrok and voted for xkcd + Show Spoiler +
-ok so apparently iGrok is getting killed instead now. weird and wild. But with him flipping red, there is more than enough evidence out there for a skilled vigilante to shoot grush/spike/awesomeall tonight. munk-e would be a good dt check, and while aprudds has done a good job blending in with his posts, he now shows up on the lafali defense list, iGrok’s don’t lynch list, and the xkcd lynch list. That’s enough to call for a dt check too. Good luck.
-jackal is looking worse and worse as the game goes on. What’s up man? Not really interested in this game?
-jackal was shot, but everyone seems to be pretty much on the right track for now. I’ll probably stop writing this unless something unexpected happens.
After iGrok got lynched and 4 mafia got modkilled, it was basically GG and it seemed as though everyone lost interest in the game. Anyway, thanks for your notes GGQ, some really insightful stuff. I now know who's history to follow to learn how to play this game.
Thanks, but there are much better players than me to follow if you want to see how town is played well. I've developed a pretty good scumdar, but I still lack the ability to persuade people really well.
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On June 17 2011 01:11 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 21:44 Barundar wrote:
I haven't read the game, but Kurumi is by far the most chaotic player I have played with. It's not all bad though, sometimes throwing stones around provides results. What did he do that was so terrible? Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 21:10 supersoft wrote:
I don't know where all the hate for Kurumi comes from. Everyone has his own playstyle. I like Kurumis style. He is unpredictable and that's not a bad thing in mafia. Playing with kurumi is like playing one of those obnoxious terrans who SCV rushes you and flies their CC into a corner of the map and then BMs you while you waste 10-15 minutes realizing exactly what he did then tech up to void ray/corruptor/viking to go deal with him. Sure it's technically a way to play but it isn't good play, it isn't a winning strategy and it is really annoying to just about everyone else. His actions don't help town, as they're a huge distraction which can lead town to waste a vote on him or some random townie. His actions don't help the mafia as they are far too disorganized and devoid of strategy. He's basically just the village idiot who you have to learn to ignore.
Well he survived the whole game which i also didn't expect the first day. i thought some vigi was gonna shoot him for sure.
Am reading trough the mafia quicktopic now and i must say that is looks like it would have been really close if there weren't this much modkills
out of the scum thread:
Wait, kurumi isnt even in the scum.
lol
thats a pretty good idea. Wait until the last minute, then vote for lafali with at least 3 good reasons xD
It should be very satisfying to see plans come together:p
Omg, getting suspicion on me was the best thing ever. i was on every kill list at the start
Wait. you still wanted to vigi claim after the haikus?
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Hmm, I haven't finished going through the whole mafia QT thread, but there are some points here that I'm confused about.
On June 17 2011 00:39 iGrok wrote:
1) Day 1 we let play out as it is. Nothing is really being done. I'll analyze Kurumi as a Red - hopefully that will provoke him. Odd #s, agree with me, not too strongly though. #8 advocate a lynch of him, or a detective check if we lynch someone else. #2/4/6 disagree with me publicly.
wait, didn't you analyze Kurumi as town? That was way before the rookie thing even came up.
3) Our N1 targets will be GGQ, Jackal, and Vain. We should double-stack GGQ to be sure he dies (use two hits on him). He is by far the strongest mafia player here. I'll frame Kurumi and hope he gets checked xD
Ahh, I finally understand why you guys double hit GGQ, it allows one of the mafia to claim vet/medic. I had been wondering about this since day 2, since I really didn't buy that eliminating a strong player early on was a sufficiently good reason to eliminate someone (however, GGQ's response to this point in an earlier post suggests that it might actually be).
3) I have already crumbed that I am a vigilante - dw about where I will show you in time ^^. The point is that I can back up my claim. I will be calling for a DT Check on myself N1, since I can assign my role to return Vigi - hopefully this will also draw a DT into the open! I will claim at the start of D2, claiming a hit and that I was protected. I will then pull medic attention. My reasoning will be "Now town gets 2 lynches and a confirmed Blue". I'll play it semi-democratically as well - obviously I won't shoot you but I can't go against everyone if they unite (which they won't).
This also gives one of you reason to claim medic. DON'T claim it D2 or even D3 unless things really change. Clear it here first before claiming ANYTHING.
4) As a confirmed Vigi, I'll draw medic protects away from other targets who we'll be hitting. This way we won't have to worry about double-stacking after N1. I'll also have an even more powerful voice in the Town ^^.
I don't think anyone picked up on your crumbles. I don't really understand this. You were talking way too much and drawing way too much attention to be a blue in my mind.
I have a suspicion that gtrsrs is blue. Possibly vigilante. He would be a good RB target.
I really don't get this read. Especially considering this was a newbie mafia, there is no way gtrsrs was a blue and was drawing so much attention. I think both this point and the one above are misplays/misreads on your part in the sense that you expect/allow for blues to be more outspoken then I think it is reasonable.
I think Jackal is green.
We have 3 kp. We need to doublestack GGQ, both in case theres another medic and in case hes a Vigi. GGQ is a damn good town player, unlike Jackal whos a really good scum player :p. Doublestacking will also hide a KP, and let me claim that I was protected last night. This will be misinformation and will raise false hope for the town.
Vain will be a problem if he is a DT. Maybe RB him as well?
Other than that, idk... hitting treadmill seems obvious, but perhaps we should wait until N2 to do that.
So I guess as of the end of night 1 you had no idea how much trouble you were in/about to be in. GGQ's dying post really did you in.
I know how to save myself, and cause utter confusion in town.
IF I'M IN THE LEAD OR TIED AT 6 HOURS TO LYNCH, I'm going to claim vigilante. I will use my first-post crumb as evidence. I will say that I'm sure I'll be hit by mafia tonight anyways, so that why I don't mind stepping forward. I'll offer a popular-vote kill on whoever the town as a collective wants dead. Lets do the math on that.
Some iterations of my planning as the game progressed. The rookie bandwagon came around and messed up the first one, only to make things even better. Spoiler 3 should explain how the Votecount situation completely screwed us.
The miscounting didn't happen until the final tally, so I don't really buy that it caused the mafia to fail to save you iGrok. However, two of the mafia not voting period most certainly did screw you over as their votes could have swayed it in favor of xkcd, but at that point all of the mafia would have voted for xkcd and that would have been the end.
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On June 16 2011 19:37 iGrok wrote:
Originally, I wasn't going to include gtrsrs in this. I figured, maybe he picked up on something small and thats what his tunnel is about. However, after his personal attacks and general douche-baggery, gtrsrs is permanently banned from all my games as well
lmao
On June 11 2011 09:44 gtrsrs wrote:
how mad do you guys think iGrok is right now?
it's funny that you're so butthurt. i'm not a douchebag i just play an aggressive style and it provoked you into rage-quitting.
also reading through a couple of your QT posts you play godfather EXACTLY like i did my first time. it's funny all the parallels. you basically said "look newbs, i'm a better player than you so let me play for you." that's literally exactly what i did too, i hosted a google doc and charted out who was going to vote for who and every time someone made a mistake i reamed them for it and when i died my team just gave up because i didn't let them play
anyways gg try not to take a loss so hard bruh
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also i don't know why you DIDN'T claim vigilante in a close vote like that. i almost certainly would have changed my vote as long as you weren't counterclaimed. same thing to amazingxkcd. if people have ANY inkling that you're blue and you claim before being lynched, they will change their votes until they can be sure they're not lynching a blue
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On June 16 2011 08:33 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 08:25 Pyo wrote:
well, to be fair, you don't really have to be a dick about it. I mean good job being the first to pick up on iGrok, but rubbing it in like that is just as bad as iGrok being the pompous jack-ass that first tipped you off. nah there's a difference between trying to control the game and getting caught for it then rage-quitting, and being proud of essentially "winning" the game for your team. i deserve to brag a bit. so do you, you articulated what i was feeling about iGrok much better than i did. bigger than being right in this game is convincing other people that you're right, something i've never been super good at. so cheers
I think it's just this part that he's calling you a douchebag for. While you were right about iGrok, you didn't do a lot of convincing for the other townies. My advice to you would be to work on having a stronger thread presence.
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On June 17 2011 02:48 gtrsrs wrote:
also i don't know why you DIDN'T claim vigilante in a close vote like that. i almost certainly would have changed my vote as long as you weren't counterclaimed. same thing to amazingxkcd. if people have ANY inkling that you're blue and you claim before being lynched, they will change their votes until they can be sure they're not lynching a blue
Since we don't know how many of any blue roles there are, a counterclaim on vig would mean nothing at all. In fact there were three vigilantes in this game.
Also, with iGrok claiming vig, I certainly wouldnt have switched off of him. That's the easiest blue role for mafia to fake since mafia can shoot anyways. If he claimed detective or medic I would at least consider not voting for him, but it's hard to be sure what I would do in that situation.
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Ok, first off i want to apologize for my inactiveness. I've had rough working hours, and therefore have had little time to make my mind up about what's been happening in this thread, even less to actually post something of worth. And now when I finally have some free time, my connection starts fucking with me. I thought I was doomed, since I need to go to sleep in a couple of hours, but then i realized I'm the owner of a mobile interweb devise!
So, here's my post:
On ILJ: I think that he has been the scummiest person so far. First of he posted his, by now infamous, lurkerlist. I don't see a huge problem with this TBH. Sure, it was pretty obvious information, but still i think it deserves to be highlighted. What I do have a problem with was the way he handled the pressure. As Aidnai pointed out he said that he didn't have a plausible cause to suspect someone, and imedietly after votes for GGQ. Then ILJ changes his vote to Aidnai with the motivation that he thinks that Aidnai's post was "useless content". I really think it was not.
On Sinani: I don't really understand why people are suspicious of him. I can see there is some hypocracy in telling people to do something, and then don't do it yourself, but isn't it possible that Sinani just haven't got any scums in the crosshair, so to speak? Now that I think about it it doesn't really make sense to have nothing to say and post as much as he does, but again, if you post to little people are gonna be annoyed with you anyways. I'm note sure about this one. For now he is second on my scumlist.
On Aidnai: As i have understood it, people don't like that he spammed some in the beginning? Maybe I just don't properly understand what's happening, but i think that Aidnai's contributing have weighd up his spamming, by far. For example someone said he was bragging about sniping a blue. I don't think that was the case. I think his intentions was just what he said it was; to help newer players to not make noob misstakes.
For other new-er blues in this game, i'm gonna bring this up since Chaos13 is dead already anyway: look at chaos13's posts. There's like 4-5 of them from N0, and all but maybe one are giving blues advice, asking for blue advice, or otherwise discussing blue roles. IMO, he was a pretty obvious snipe. Moral of the story: don't spend a lot of time talking about blues and nothing else. We can talk about this more post-game.
Also i think his criticism of other players have been pretty sharp. I don't understand why people would vote for him, even if he was spammy earlier and even if he would only have posted useless information. In my opinion both Sinani and ILJ seem more scummy. Especially ILJ.
And to clearify. I know I haven't contributed with any new facts, this is just my thoughts at the facts at hand.
My vote goes to ILJ.
##Vote ilovejonn
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@Pyo:
The miscounting happened in the first official count - thats what fucked us over, and thats why it took so long to resolve.
@gtrsrs,
1) you don't "play an aggressive style". I'll give you credit that maybe you read something off of my spat with kurumi. Maybe. The "lol umad?" shit is completely unacceptable here... this isn't a shithole like epicmafia. Learn to be more civil, and eventually, maybe, you'll be unbanned.
2) I didn't ragequit, I stopped posting to let things cool off and get other people posting, to lose some of the focus from me.
3) The reason I "didn't claim anyways" was because I thought I was clear. Claiming vigi would have been EXTREMELY risky, especially since I returned Veteran to DT checks.
4) Scum team would have been fine, but several of our members fucked up the vote deadline and got modkilled the day after I was lynched.
5) GGQ is right about why I'm calling you a d-bag. Its cause you are, not cause I lost.
And for emphasis;
epicmafia : TL Mafia :: BNet Forums : TL Forums
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On June 17 2011 02:47 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 19:37 iGrok wrote:
Originally, I wasn't going to include gtrsrs in this. I figured, maybe he picked up on something small and thats what his tunnel is about. However, after his personal attacks and general douche-baggery, gtrsrs is permanently banned from all my games as well lmao Show nested quote +On June 11 2011 09:44 gtrsrs wrote:
how mad do you guys think iGrok is right now? it's funny that you're so butthurt. i'm not a douchebag i just play an aggressive style and it provoked you into rage-quitting. also reading through a couple of your QT posts you play godfather EXACTLY like i did my first time. it's funny all the parallels. you basically said "look newbs, i'm a better player than you so let me play for you." that's literally exactly what i did too, i hosted a google doc and charted out who was going to vote for who and every time someone made a mistake i reamed them for it and when i died my team just gave up because i didn't let them play anyways gg try not to take a loss so hard bruh
...wow
Manner up lol
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iGrok by the way,I'd like to thank You. Instead of trying to help me,give tips You labeled me as the worst mafia player ever. I know that I am not good. I know that I could use coaching. I am still new to Mafia,but I love it. I try to play in my own way,it might look bad,chaotic and straightforward,but that's because I am like that as a person. Yes,I am a bad person. Well I hope You'll change Your opinion one day. 
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At the very least, you stir shit up Kurumi, which is what's needed to get things started and get people's real thoughts in the thread. You might not be very accurate in whom you attack, but you'll get better at that over time. I'd advise you to keep up the pressuring, and work on identifying scummy posts. Read as many of Ver's game analysis posts as you can to get a feel of how scum posts. Also, work on staying calm and making your posts clear and logical.
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On June 17 2011 03:00 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 08:33 gtrsrs wrote:On June 16 2011 08:25 Pyo wrote:
well, to be fair, you don't really have to be a dick about it. I mean good job being the first to pick up on iGrok, but rubbing it in like that is just as bad as iGrok being the pompous jack-ass that first tipped you off. nah there's a difference between trying to control the game and getting caught for it then rage-quitting, and being proud of essentially "winning" the game for your team. i deserve to brag a bit. so do you, you articulated what i was feeling about iGrok much better than i did. bigger than being right in this game is convincing other people that you're right, something i've never been super good at. so cheers I think it's just this part that he's calling you a douchebag for. While you were right about iGrok, you didn't do a lot of convincing for the other townies. My advice to you would be to work on having a stronger thread presence.
"Thread presence" is an interesting concept that hasn't really been thoroughly analyzed in any of the guides as far as I've seen. The cool thing about it is that it isn't really correlated with how much or even what you say. It is also interesting how one can gain thread presence or lose it simply by what others say. I mean let's consider this past game and some of the players that had (and didn't have) thread presence for different reasons:
Kurumi
Kurumi is a case where having a lot to say and engaging with a number of people doesn't necessarily give you thread presence. He started right off the bat making a number of accusations and drawing a lot of attention. But as soon as people picked up on this and as soon as it was pointed out that he has a history of nonsense posting. He was immediately relegated to the village idiot, and no accusation he made carried any weight anymore. This is important because in order for you to be able to apply pressure on mafia, your accusation has to mean something.
GGQ
GGQ is sort of a counter point to Kurumi. He really didn't post a whole lot, but all of them carried a lot meaning. Quite frankly, one of his posts basically set in motion the events that ultimately won town the game. If anyone "single-handedly" won us the game, it was him. So how was he able to do it? Well first off, he had to make good posts that carried good analysis. But I don't really think this was the key point (see jackal bellow). The key moment in establishing himself was actually iGrok gifting him thread presence by stating that he was an experienced player who knew what he was doing, and no one challenged this (see vain bellow).
jackal
In this game, jackal really didn't do much, yet was able cause a day 1 lynch with one post. His analysis wasn't anything spectacular and he didn't really do much to establish himself as having thread presence, so why did everyone bandwagon with him? Well because iGrok said he was a good player and no one challenged this. This is a clear example of how one can give someone else cred. jackal is also a clear example of why one must be cognizant of their thread presence. One post by him was able to set of a bandwagon, and the mafia didn't even have to do anything.
vain
Vain is sort of the counter example to one gets thread presence simply by having someone else give it to them. iGrok included vain in his list of experienced players, but it really didn't feel like he had any thread presence at all throughout the game. While some of this could be attributed to GGQ drawing suspicion on him, that doesn't really explain day 1. After the role list came out, it became clear what was going on. Vain was a medic. Basically, he didn't want/need thread presence so he didn't really do or say much. Ultimately, I think he played his role perfectly (except for protecting kurumi). He allowed just enough suspicion to be placed on him that mafia wouldn't kill him, but not enough that town would lynch him.
iGrok
iGrok is an interesting case because he was actively seeking thread presence and in a way he got it, however it quickly backfired. He began by distinguishing himself with haikus. This immediately made him stand out, which was his goal I guess. At this point he sort of claimed experience and with his thread presence basically established several other players as being experienced as well. Then he pushed it too far. His long analysis of kurumi (who had nothing said nothing worthy of being analyzed), asking for others' opinions of his analysis, asking for an analysis of himself - all of these things really felt like he was just trying to lead discussion without actually doing anything. And ultimately, none of his accusations or efforts to draw negative attention on anyone were really all that successful. Newbie that I am read it as him being a self-important douche, but GGQ read it correctly as him being the GF.
So what have I learned from this game?
1. There are a couple ways to gain immediate presence:
- spam/active posting
- do something cutesy or unique
- be given it by someone else
2. Each of these can backfire or cause you to lost thread presence if pushed too hard:
- spam too much and you'll be lynched or ignored
- act overly cutesy and you'll draw the wrong kind of attention
- lying low can shed yourself of attention/presence
3. I feel like this can be applied to scum strategy, particular in cases where not everyone knows each other. If iGrok really wanted to gain town cred/thread presence, he probably should have had one of the other mafia be the one that established him as an experienced player (sort of the Julius Caesar approach). If you look at the impact to post count ratio of GGQ and jackal and compare it to iGrok, it's really astounding. I mean even after GGQ was dead, his post was being quoted and his points restated well into the third day.
Well anyway, I think I've just about milked this game of everything I can from the town's perspective.
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On June 17 2011 03:21 iGrok wrote:
1) you don't "play an aggressive style". I'll give you credit that maybe you read something off of my spat with kurumi. Maybe. The "lol umad?" shit is completely unacceptable here... this isn't a shithole like epicmafia. Learn to be more civil, and eventually, maybe, you'll be unbanned.
2) I didn't ragequit, I stopped posting to let things cool off and get other people posting, to lose some of the focus from me.
3) The reason I "didn't claim anyways" was because I thought I was clear. Claiming vigi would have been EXTREMELY risky, especially since I returned Veteran to DT checks.
4) Scum team would have been fine, but several of our members fucked up the vote deadline and got modkilled the day after I was lynched.
5) GGQ is right about why I'm calling you a d-bag. Its cause you are, not cause I lost.
And for emphasis;
epicmafia : TL Mafia :: BNet Forums : TL Forums
you're so condescending it's disgusting
you act like i would make any effort at all to get unbanned from your personal games lmao
epicmafia has just as much strategy as forum mafia, albeit a different kind. it's nice because you don't have to read 6 essays of fluff every day, you can just hunt the scum and be done with it.
and why do you think the scum team fucked up the voting deadline? because as soon as your stranglehold on their play was released, they weren't sure how to play on their own. maybe if you hadn't tried to control the entire game from your ivory tower your team would have had a chance
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Wow the mafia QT was really insightful.
Pruds 06-08-2011 03:22 AM ET (US)
Pyo is either veteran or completely retarded. He's practically asking for a shot and that means he either wants to take it or die. Look at his posts.
I knew I was in danger. I realized I was coming off as too obviously town, but given that i was green townie, it might have been a good thing anyway.
Pruds 06-08-2011 12:50 PM ET (US)
Kurumi is retarded lol. His posts make no sense.
There are so many of these posts, I can't help but laugh.
Pruds 06-08-2011 04:21 PM ET (US)
LOL I even got Pyo derailed off igrok
lol, this was masterfully done. Now I know what to look out for. The sudden surge in activity should have been really telling.
iGrok 06-09-2011 11:20 PM ET (US)
he's doing it right now -_-
I can count too, and I counted 12-11 xkcd
lol, fail.
Pruds 06-09-2011 11:28 PM ET (US)
if xkcd was any smart, he would unvote jackal and vote you grok
QFT
Grush57 06-10-2011 12:02 PM ET (US)
nvm found it. ill rb pyo just cuz.
lol
Looking back, TheAwesomeAll and 35spike had some really obvious tells that no one really picked up on. Some of Munk-E's posting was a little bizarre too. By the end, I was sure he was scum, but some of his posts were so pro-town to the point that they kind of screwed over the mafia a little.
All in all, I'd say mafia MVP goes to appruds. Definitely the brains of their outfit (sorry iGrok  ).
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This was definitely a fun game for the majority of days 1 and 2 and a little bit of 3, but I modkills definitely made the game much less rewarding. If some of the mafia members had not died in that way, they might have survived towards the later stages or at least caused more confusion.
As for me, the results show how I constantly picked the wrong guy - my only right pick was on iGrok. Given that I thought that Jimbooo, xkcd, and Vain (sorry haha) were strongly mafia at different points of the game and totally missed out on other players, I feel like I'll need to play few more games haha.
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EPT
