EPT*DreamHack Spoilers* I am so mad - Page 9
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Trolle
Sweden227 Posts
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
On April 13 2011 21:34 WhiteDog wrote: Epicness comes in off the chart situation that goes with tension and stress, everybody agrees with that. MC's cheese is not off chart, he is a cheesy player, he is basically using timing attack and cheese 90% of the time, and the 10% rest is when his opponents force him to go for a third and more or kill him. I don't understand all the whine about the whine, it feels like all the MC's fan just cannot accept we critisize this kind of play. It is our right as viewers to think what we want about this type of play, even if MC is the uncontested best protoss at the moment. It is our right to think that SC2 should be deeper than just a bunch of quick 5 to 15 min games with one expand at best and low tier tech units. I will just say one thing, the most epic game on SC1 in my opinion, and one of the most reviewed game, was the 1v1 between BoXer and Iloveoov for i don't remember what purpose where, at some point, BoXer locked down a fleet of battle cruiser with a bunch of ghost. Those games were like 1 hour long. It's Roland Gaross and it was, at the time, saw as one of the most disrespectful move made by a young player (Chang) against an old legend (Lendl). Not to mention, that's THE ONLY EXEMPLE YOU CAN GIVE US. There are no other exemple of famous point with that kind of serve. Act become epic because we are not seeing them every damn day. Doing this was more risky: that kind of serve is weaker than normal serve in term of speed. MC is all about cheese, stop calling epic something that is not. I hate people making the comparaison between Michael Chang and MC the cheeser, have some respect ? First of all, calling MC a cheesy player is pretty hilarious. Name another game where he proxy gated. Just one other game. Yeah thought so. Second, your dribble did not address the points of the person you quoted. In fact, you basically proved him right that epic-ness should come naturally. Third, why does whiner use the term 'whine about the whine,' as if somehow the fault has been reversed now? We're pointing out holes in the reason you whine. You can't refute them, so no we are not gonna stand by idly while you bad mouth players while clearly not having an idea of anything you are talking about. If you can't understand what's wrong with what you're doing, let's just paint it in reverse: If someone talked shit about White Ra and called him names like faggot and that he must suck because he didn't scout his base, you think it's okay to let that go? Lastly, you say SC2 should be more than 5-10 minute games, well that's not how the game currently is. Get over it. Forcing some arbitrary 'samurai code' rules onto players as spectators will not make the game better. If the game should evolve into a more macro-based game, it will either be the players discovering new strategies that change the strategy component of the game, or changes from Blizzard. It should NOT come from whiny spectators. That is all. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
On April 13 2011 23:25 Ocedic wrote: First of all, calling MC a cheesy player is pretty hilarious. Name another game where he proxy gated. Just one other game. Yeah thought so. Second, your dribble did not address the points of the person you quoted. In fact, you basically proved him right that epic-ness should come naturally. Third, why does whiner use the term 'whine about the whine,' as if somehow the fault has been reversed now? We're pointing out holes in the reason you whine. You can't refute them, so no we are not gonna stand by idly while you bad mouth players while clearly not having an idea of anything you are talking about. If you can't understand what's wrong with what you're doing, let's just paint it in reverse: If someone talked shit about White Ra and called him names like faggot and that he must suck because he didn't scout his base, you think it's okay to let that go? Lastly, you say SC2 should be more than 5-10 minute games, well that's not how the game currently is. Get over it. Forcing some arbitrary 'samurai code' rules onto players as spectators will not make the game better. If the game should evolve into a more macro-based game, it will either be the players discovering new strategies that change the strategy component of the game, or changes from Blizzard. It should NOT come from whiny spectators. That is all. Well said, though the first part about MC's proxy gates is a bit inaccurate. MC also famously proxy-gated in game 3 of the GSL3 finals against TSL_Rain on Steppes of War. Granted, it was good old Steppes, so I didn't expect anything other than cheese. | ||
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CokaOath
Hong Kong75 Posts
"July got a four-kill in the WC Showmatch, NaDa is a two in a row Ro8'er, 3 Ro8's overall, and is the tornado terran, feared for his BW macro, which has carried over at least some. Watch his games vs. ZeNexByun, Ro16 GSL March, a player known for his strong defensive macro. Rain won in solid macro games vs. a Ro4 and consistent ro8'er HongUn He rolled them. In macro games. They stood no chance. Jinro has told us that MC's strength is not timing attacks, just noone is good enough to get past that stage." Com'on. you really need to watch more MC's game before judging. MC rolls everyone in macro game. | ||
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trancey
United States430 Posts
SC2 Fans need to understand this, | ||
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shaman6ix
Greece212 Posts
getting in the top is not nearly as difficult as STAYING there and being consistent with continuous results (just watch all the other gsl winners, especially MVP). On top of that he has developed for himself that baller attitude which makes it even harder to be consisted and always motivated because it adds so much pressure on you - if and when you lose EVERYONE will be standing in the corner waiting to badmouth you unlike other more likeable personalities like Boxer or TLO (while TLO cheeses all the time in the past few tournaments no one has anything bad to say because he's the ''fan favorite''). YET, he manages to stay focused, highly motivated, go through all that and continue to dominate almost everything he participates in. That, my friends, takes B A L L S. BALLS OF STEEL. Haters gonna hate. | ||
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cocoa_sg
Singapore296 Posts
It is sad, but naturally, the "foreigner never cheeses" mentality is still here in TL at times. TLO gets glorified for his 5-rax rush, while OGS_MC, having 'cheesed' only TWICE in the entire Dreamhack tournament, gets bashed left and right. I want both foreigners and Koreans to be able to do their best in tournaments, and to play to WIN, regardless of the spectator value. That being said, Idra's BM second game against MC was very martyring. Why give up so easily by 6-pooling out of rage? Did you hope that by sacrificing yourself (and further disappointing your sponsors in the meantime), you would get the Zerg race buffed and the Protoss race nerfed? Why not learn from JulyZerg? He is a zerg himself, yet he never complains much and just all-kills his opponents (i.e. in the GSL World Championships). Learn from him please, or switch races. =3 | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
I watch boxing over MMA for the fact that two guys rolling around on the ground grappling each other instead of throwing punches standing up doesn't entertain me, but I don't fault MMA fighters for doing what will give them victory. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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Sethronu
United Kingdom450 Posts
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Bippzy
United States1466 Posts
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TheloniousMonk
Australia41 Posts
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
On April 14 2011 06:05 Bippzy wrote: Everyone must now proxy 2 gate in PvP to honor god toss and to piss everyone off! You will honestly win most of your PvPs like this in my experience on ladder. I'm not a good player at all so I don't know if I can say this for sure but I actually think it's less map dependent than cannon rushing. I also find it a lot more fun than 4gating. Proxy 2gate is actually kind of a blast haha | ||
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PlaGuE_R
France1151 Posts
hell, i got banned for defending MC not long ago lol, although it was wrong to derail the thread, it aggravates me that there are so many of these idiots around :[ | ||
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Strike_
Netherlands704 Posts
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mprs
Canada2933 Posts
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sleigh bells
United States358 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:49 hugman wrote: So I said this like twice already, but I think the tennis analogy of using an underhand serve on a match point is the perfect example. Is that respected in tennis? No. MC can win like that but I'm not going to respect him for showing such a boring deciding game. chang v. edberg french open widely considered one of the ballsiest performances of all time. bad analogy anyway (as chill said). don't talk random shit about sports you actually don't even follow. also, arthur ashe v. jimmy connors where ashe hit everything soft and low bc connors actually couldn't handle that. considered one of the most brilliant matches of all time. if you have actually played tennis, you're obviously one of the guys who just tapped everything back to you and couldn't beat them and then raged about how you were "better." | ||
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Enki
United States2548 Posts
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tehplank
977 Posts
On April 14 2011 08:50 Enki wrote: Well, it was a disappointing ending to an amazing tournament, that was my mine gripe. People need to put themselves in MC's shoes though, he had an idea of how White-Ra was building, he used a build made to exploit that. 15k was on the line guys, 15 thosand dollars. Can you honestly say you wouldn't have done the same in his position if you were almost guaranteed a win? I agree. People need to put themselves in MC's shoes. There's 15 grand on the line. If there's a build that has the best chance of me securing that cash, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'm a big White-Ra fan but what MC did was understandable considering that he spends all his time refining his play in order to win tournaments. They play to win cash, guys. They are not there to play 4-base 200/200 games every game just to cater to the viewers. If you want to see those long-ass macro games, then stop typing rants in TL, start up SC2 and get better. Once you do that, go sign up for tournaments and voila. You can play all the macro games that you want in tournaments. Until you can do that, I suggest that you step aside, shut the hell up, and let these progamers do their jobs. | ||
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deerpark87
760 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/gpkoz/ogsmc_responds_to_criticism/ From oGsMC's twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/oGsMC 누가 영어로 해석해서 나를 욕하는 외국인에게 보여줬으면 좋겠다 화이트라는 5판연속같은빌드를 했고 난 그 빌드의 카운터빌드를 했을뿐인데 그걸 가지고 치즈라니 질럿 안뽑고 시작하니까 전진게이트를 하지... 천칠백만원짜리 게임인데 확신이있으니깐 한거고 "I hope this is translated and shown to foreigners who are criticizing me. White-ra did the same build 5 times in a row, and I merely did the counter-build. How can people say that is cheese? Since he doesn't start by producing a zealot, I proxy gate... It was a 17 million won game, I did it because I was certain I would win." | ||
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