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On March 26 2011 02:35 Bleak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2011 02:28 uSnAmplified wrote:On March 26 2011 02:06 Bleak wrote:
Since new fungal is so strong, what about going Mech? Mech has to weak of AA, a zerg can literally make nothing but mutas and magic box your entire army. Im personally haveing a lot of trouble getting marine/tank to work at all, every game the Z goes infestors my marines are wiped out and my tank line is overrun easily, once they have the gas to have mutas + a few infestors to take out the marines its over. By no means I have tested this, but what about getting like 4-5 thor/siege tank/blue helion with double armory upgrading all game? You can always build turrets as you push to protect the tanks, and since helions are so fast, you can keep poking around the expansions. Something like 4-5 thors, 10-14 siege tanks and good amount of helions should probably deal with anything in a straight up fight except broodlords or mass mass muta. The idea should be to prevent that muta count, but how? I think this is the crucial question. Perhaps with good harrassment or a good timing where your units can deal with anything, this could be possible? I would imagine you would need extremely good drop harassment to keep yourself in the game if you are going mech TvZ.
My main problem with mech is you cant just move you your army to poke the zerg like marine/tank, you are to slow and its far to easy to get muta backstabbed and forcing engagements to keep the muta count low gets harder. It eventually gets to the point where Z has to many mutas for thors to handle.
I can see a turret push being a possible solution with a lot of patience, but good creep spread prevents turrets obviously, so it will get to a point where you have to scan, kill tumors, wait for creep to dissipate and build turrets, move again etc.
I have not played mech versus new infestors, but if a Z is going that path is opens up a quicker path to broodlords which is a real pain in the ass for tank/thor obviously, and +damage to armor fungal and neural would likely be a nightmare. Comparing the new fungal to storm, the Z can just fungal the mech and chip away at it like P could prepatch, which is also another roadblock.
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Guess we'll be seeing more mech play in this matchup? Leapfrogging~?
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Its really hard dealing with infestors now.... even skipping mutas rushing into infestors work extremely well.... the new fungal seems to be a bit too much for T to handle....
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Theres not going to be a 1 all strategy that counters everything the zerg throws at you, you have to be flexible. If there was a one strategy that terran could employ vs zerg that pretty much steam rolls them every single time, then the match up would be broken.
Just saying because most people in this thread seem to be looking for that golden composition where they always win with...
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Tank/Marine/Medievac is still viable. However, if the Zerg is going heavy heavy lings I suggest bringing out some BF Hellions.
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On March 26 2011 04:01 Mylkal wrote:
Theres not going to be a 1 all strategy that counters everything the zerg throws at you, you have to be flexible. If there was a one strategy that terran could employ vs zerg that pretty much steam rolls them every single time, then the match up would be broken.
Just saying because most people in this thread seem to be looking for that golden composition where they always win with...
Actually Terran requires a versatile composition that can adapt to whatever a zerg thows at you, due to how your production is structured. Any large scale tech switch is unrealistic.
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On March 25 2011 22:03 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2011 21:29 Brocklyn wrote:On March 25 2011 19:25 Dalavita wrote:On March 23 2011 17:10 HitStarcraft wrote:
You do realize you're are *itching about how your teir one units are being killed by teir 1.5 and teir 2 units in your 1st two points. Its really sad. And You do know you have other units besides the marines and medivacs at your disposal.
User was warned for this post First of all, terran doesn't have any tiers. Second, they have been outteching zerg since forever in this matchup, so gtfo. LOL sry dude, but terran HAVE tiers! barracks = 1 Factory = 2 starport = 3 or how else you would describe the techtree for terran? Not tier-based is how I'd describe the tech tree for Terran, and Protoss. By your logic, a medivac is tier 3, the same as a raven and a battlecruiser, while a thor is t2. The only race that has tiers is zerg, going by way of Hatchery -> Lair -> Hive, being required to open up new units and upgrades but doing nothing by themselves, on top of their building requirements. The factory and starport are unit producing buildings and nothing else.
that's only if you don't have any common sense.
you need a factory to get armoury. so thor is tier 3 as you need 1 more 'costly' (150/100) building after the tier 2 factory.
ghost is tier 2 because you need ghost academy (150/50) which comes after tier 1 rax. etc. make sense?
zerg tier tree is simplified into lair/hive, but in terms of money spent to tech the tiers are about the same race to race. this is due to terran/protoss being forced to make multiple production buildings.
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Wouldn't it be funny if Terran skipped tanks, went for ghosts and mass nukes? That would amuse me greatly. I don't think anyone ever managed to get marine/medivac/ghost to the stage where nukes got thrown out but might be something to experiment with especially for monday. :p
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Repeat: there is no tier system in Starcraft 2...
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On March 26 2011 05:34 abominable wrote:
that's only if you don't have any common sense.
People who have common sense don't pull the tier argument to begin with.
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On March 26 2011 06:47 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2011 05:34 abominable wrote:
that's only if you don't have any common sense.
Peopl whoe have common sense don't pull the tier argument to begin with.
^ This right here.
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at the current state of the infestor, why even bother making banelings, just double cast and kill huge bioballs in seconds. I believe this will bring out better play from Terrans who are used to 3 rax all ins 3 rax/expo into more rax, into expo into more rax. Against infestors that method will be hugely cost ineffective. Terran will need to start incoporating all its units, including ghosts and BCs.
Happy hunting 1.3!
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The gas required to support Marine,Tank,Medvac,Ghost is ridiculous. I have been using mech since infestors still dont affect it much.
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If you wanna go bio then get Ghosts.
Or just spread your bio into groups of 7-8 units at most.
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On March 26 2011 06:55 Ponyo wrote:
at the current state of the infestor, why even bother making banelings, just double cast and kill huge bioballs in seconds. I believe this will bring out better play from Terrans who are used to 3 rax all ins 3 rax/expo into more rax, into expo into more rax. Against infestors that method will be hugely cost ineffective. Terran will need to start incoporating all its units, including ghosts and BCs.
Happy hunting 1.3!
Cause nothing is more demoralizing than seeing 70 banes run through your entire bioball + tanks + into your base?
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Netherlands19125 Posts
I strongly suggest most, if not all participants in this thread reread the Starcraft 2 Strategy Forum Posting Guidelines at the top of the forum. Any further violations of said thread here and by these users elsewhere will result in moderation.
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I was used to main Zerg a couple months ago, recently I have been playing terran and today I just switched back 
I have to say a ling/infestor combo is really, really effective, all the gas going to all those fungals is extremely potent. I think the best combo for Terran is the regular marine/tank/medivac but with a few ghosts, maybe even think about getting the +25 energy upgrade for them so that you can EMP a couple times from each ghost (considering travel time, you might get about 125 energy which is close to a 2nd EMP). Leap frogging siege tanks are really important, send a stimmed marine a head of the pack to locate the zerg army or scan and siege your tanks appropriately.
Another unit comp I've been thinking of is BF hellions, marauders, siege tanks and thors, basically a mech build but utilizes marauders to deal with roaches however the gas requirements for that are pretty high, you'd have to somehow take a lot of bases which isn't easy. The whole premise of an infestor build is that you are relying on zerglings, so a BF hellion opening could be pretty potent and just transition normally into the marine/tank/medivac with ghosts once you know they are getting infestors.
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On March 28 2011 18:11 emc wrote:Another unit comp I've been thinking of is BF hellions, marauders, siege tanks and thors, basically a mech build but utilizes marauders to deal with roaches however the gas requirements for that are pretty high, you'd have to somehow take a lot of bases which isn't easy. The whole premise of an infestor build is that you are relying on zerglings, so a BF hellion opening could be pretty potent and just transition normally into the marine/tank/medivac with ghosts once you know they are getting infestors.
I usually get a lot of BF hellions against zerg and i can tell you that they are not the answer to ling/infestor. The nature of hellions makes them require hit and run micro to be really effective. Once surrounded, they die quite easily to lings. One good fungal on your hellion pack is all it takes for the lings to charge in and get a surround.
I will still build them as there is not really an alternative, but i just wanted to point out that they are not as deadly to ling/infestor as one might think. They still need marine/tank support to be really effective.
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that's only if you don't have any common sense.
you need a factory to get armoury. so thor is tier 3 as you need 1 more 'costly' (150/100) building after the tier 2 factory.
ghost is tier 2 because you need ghost academy (150/50) which comes after tier 1 rax. etc. make sense?
zerg tier tree is simplified into lair/hive, but in terms of money spent to tech the tiers are about the same race to race. this is due to terran/protoss being forced to make multiple production buildings.[/QUOTE]
I would put it at
marine- Tier 1
Maurader- tier 1.25
reaper- tier 1.25
Ghost- tier 1.5
Hellion- tier 2
tank- tier 2
thor- 2.5
medivac-2
viking-2
banshee-2.25
battlecruiser-3
the reason why I would put air at tier 2 is because of it's timing and tech path. You get air reliably at mid game, you get thors a little later but you need the armory for upgrades anyways so it is relatively easy tech. Battlecruiser is really the only unit that T has to go out of their way for and it is almost strictly a late game tech.
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Why don't you go and make a "Tiers - a useful description for sc2 units ?" thread and keep the discussion out of here ? It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
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EPT
