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On March 20 2011 09:21 XsebT wrote:
This case will outlast sc2. ^^
Trolling aside, I do have one question. How is what OGN/MBC/KeSPA doing (financially) different from what incontrol (and many others) does with making money off coaching and commercials on his broadcast channel using a blizzard product?
I'm not fishing for a specific response - I just don't know how it's different by law and/or EULA.
Thanks a lot for the update, milkis!
Stream are provided for free. Kespa is asking for a bunch of money.
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How about the fact that Blizzard was quiet (read: quietly gaining profit) for the past 11 years when they didn't argue about IP rights and now, because they have a new game going, they suddenly bring the topic up? Seriously, just let the 2 games continue along their normal courses. SC2 is already going big in the West, and for fuck's sakes, SCBW is already a cultural thing in South Korea.
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Weird fight, but Blizzard cant deny that those broadcast made the industry bigger. Also, 100%?? wow!
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On March 22 2011 02:02 hmsrenown wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 09:21 XsebT wrote:
This case will outlast sc2. ^^
Trolling aside, I do have one question. How is what OGN/MBC/KeSPA doing (financially) different from what incontrol (and many others) does with making money off coaching and commercials on his broadcast channel using a blizzard product?
I'm not fishing for a specific response - I just don't know how it's different by law and/or EULA.
Thanks a lot for the update, milkis! Stream are provided for free. Kespa is asking for a bunch of money.
KeSPA isn't asking for any money. Please check your facts before you say anything like that. All Brood War events are absolutely free. They are broadcast on TV for free to the viewers as well as online and there is no entrance fee to watch any event, whether it is PL, OSL, or MSL. KeSPA does request a broadcasting fee from the stations (MBC and OGN), but as they are a NPO, they reinvest all those funds back into the BW scene. They don't make any direct profit themselves.
To answer XsebT, what OGN and MBC are doing is fundamentally no different, but it is on a much larger scale. It's a matter of economics for Blizzard. They don't have the resources to chase down every small fish that is profiting off their product, but OGN and MBC are a large, easy target. It's the same tactic the MPAA/RIAA use in America when they sue a random person who pirates some music or movie for some ridiculous amount, hoping to scare off all the other people who have done the same thing.
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You think people would call Blizzard crazy for chasing this. What do they have to gain from all of this? They already saw the effects of all of this, WCG's main sponsor Samsung won't promote any Blizzard games, which are the biggest on stage, (aside from Counter Strike  ).
It's more of a big loss then any real gain in the end of it. I just don't see the reason behind all of this honestly. Blizzard attacking 2 big Korean TV stations along with Team Sponsors, whom are also very big in Korea is... complete insanity.
Blizzard can say all they want regards to the "real" reason for it but they keep doing this they will continue to label themselves as the bad people. While Kespa is no saint either, at least there trying to keep BW alive, not crap like this. Don't know if I will ever look at Blizzard in the same way as I have in the past.
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thanks milkis.
how much longer this gonna go on? sc2 be an old game by the time they finally agree on something, and i don't even know who's side i'm on anymore... seems like two small children arguing over a toy.
what ever happened to compromise? lol
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Hopefully a compromise can be reached through the mediators, possibly stating that though neither side is entirely right, neither side is entirely wrong either.
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Keep in mind this is Blizzard Activision, not the good-old-Blizzard.
The Blizzard that made Starcraft: Broodwar was a very different company, and while I can't speak on their behalf, I would venture to say that they would have been content with their game being a top-seller for a decade. I highly doubt the developers would object if they were to learn that TV broadcasting matches of teams with separate sponsors lead droves of young korean boys to snatch up copies of their game for 10 years. "Blizzard" is on the boot-up screen every single time.
Dig around for all that Activision has done in their acquisitions..
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On March 19 2011 05:07 Chairman Ray wrote:
I really hate how they're using juvenile arguments like comparing esports to the movie/music industry. Esports is not an equivalent in any way. Broadcasting sc games is not like broadcasting movies and music without permission. If anything, letting people watch movies or listen to music without permission would be equivalent to letting people fully play sc for free. Letting people watch sc matches is like letting people look at other people listening to music, which is kinda dumb. Esports cannot be equated to conventional sports either because no conventional sport is copyrighted.
I'm fairly certain Blizzard is going to come out ahead in this. You can't broadcast copyrighted material without permisssion, even if it's just logos or trailers. For example, if I make a product and then that product shows up in a Justin Bieber music video, I am able to sue him, even if it's just product placement and not giving away the product. As the legal owner of the product, I have control over how the product is advertised or displayed in the media. Blizzard has full control over how their product is advertised and displayed on the media, regardless if they are profiting or not. I really think Blizzard should just let OGN/MBC do their thing since they're not getting harmed by it, but if they wish to sue, they are able to do it.
It's an interesting point you bring up. Do you actually have control over your product's display? It would be interesting for someone familiar with South Korean law to say so. In USA, you don't have that right, just look at all the car insurance and car commercials (even cleaning product commercials do this) doing comparisons. With this point, you are saying that the broadcasts/games are derivative works and are thus subject to original work's author's ownership and copyrights.
I very much agree with you on the first point. No type of sport ever in history of humanity had any kind of ownership to it. Basketball is the closest sport that has a real author behind it. The question is: Can you copyright/patent/protect a sport, whether it is a mind sport (similar to poker and chess) or an athletic sport (similar to basketball and football). There is something that is similar to the current video game competitions though. Magic The Gathering is similar to Starcraft2 in that there is one entity which profits from selling the equipment. Wizards of the Coast, however, have their own tournaments as well.
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Blizzard is being way too greedy here. According to them, every movie, drama, concert and broadcasted sports were illegal because they contain products manufactured by other companies without paying said companies. Film makers don't have to manufacture their own props just to make films legally so what right does Blizzard have to charge OGN and MBC? The broadcasting companies already paid them by buying their games.
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Sc would just have been an RTS like any other RTS with out OGN/MBC blizzard didn't care until they came around to harvest what OGN/MBC had kept alive since they first planted the starcraft seed. It's ridiculous really. Blizzard do own it so that makes them the owner of everything made with their product in my eyes. But then again it's such a dick move of them. It's simply appalling what they're doing. Ah well hope that they can come to an agreement. Because getting rid of BW from Korean TV isn't going to make SC2 that attractive in the eyes of the koreans or at least so I think.
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Canada11202 Posts
On March 22 2011 17:26 bias- wrote:
Keep in mind this is Blizzard Activision, not the good-old-Blizzard.
The Blizzard that made Starcraft: Broodwar was a very different company, and while I can't speak on their behalf, I would venture to say that they would have been content with their game being a top-seller for a decade. I highly doubt the developers would object if they were to learn that TV broadcasting matches of teams with separate sponsors lead droves of young korean boys to snatch up copies of their game for 10 years. "Blizzard" is on the boot-up screen every single time.
Dig around for all that Activision has done in their acquisitions..
I would venture to say that you haven't looked into who is the Blizzard that made SC2 and who made SCBW. They're essentially the same team, there's just a heck a lot more of them this time. They lost a couple a long the way like Bill Roper. But by and large it's the same gaming geeks that they accumulated over 20 years.
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/b20/videos.html#blizzard-retrospective
Compare the credits on your respective boxes and you'll note the continuity of names (plus a lot more).
It seems a few people have been misunderstanding Blizzard's 3rd argument which seems a little vague. I would read it that violating ip rights has nothing to do with promoting the industry. Rather than broadcasting itself does not promote the industry- which is nonsensical. Essentially, Blizzard pursuing ip rights doesn't hurt the industry because they'd still be able to broadcast so long as the ip issue is addressed. (IP has no bearing on whether the broadcast will fail or not- just on whether it is legal or not.)
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EPT
