EPTNASL: Koreans? Top Koreans? - Page 15
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letsroll
23 Posts
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:46 Baffels wrote: I want good games. Period. Americans who can't make it in the NFL play in the CFL, Canadians who make it to the NFL don't play in the CFL. Seriously, c'mon man if your not going to invite these people why dont you just give yourself the prize money now?(EG) I feel like this point has been mentioned a lot, but I want to reiterate it. The goal is to avoid that. The way things are headed, the split will be almost inevitable. We have seen nothing so far to suggest than the foreigner scene can keep up with the Koreans if things continue on the path they're going. Granted, the sample sizes have been relatively limited, but they've all been pretty consistent. However, if you focus on perhaps shorter term separation in order to hopefully play catch up, then in the future they could compete on the same level. I don't think anybody should realistically want sc2 to turn into BW where there is literally not a single player in the world competing with the best. People who want to see the Koreans separated aren't doing so because of some malice against Koreans or because we always want to see Foreigners separated from Koreans. On the contrary I (and I imagine most of the people who are arguing for the separation) are hoping to bring the skill levels and community closer in the future by taking the action now. (note: obviously this is speculation on my part, as well as everybody's elses. Nobody yet knows what the NASl will look like, how sponsors will react, if there is the desire to put for the amount of effort needed outside of Korea, etc...) | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:44 Philip2110 wrote: having all the top koreans come and potentially stomp every foreigner wont help grow the foreign scene at all imo. Will be like sc1 I'm mainly watching Korean bw because it's where the highest level of play is. I think the highest level of play in sc2 is also to be found in Korea. If the two scenes became segregated I believe that would be worst for the foreign sc2 scene, since there is just no way we're gonna keep up with the Koreans on our own if they keep playing it. And if people want to watch the highest level players they would have to watch the Korean leagues. Edit: I don't actually mind that being the case, but if people really wonna take make SC anything out of Korea, leaving the Koreans out is not an option as I see it. | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:41 Enervate wrote: No offense, but English is pretty much an international language now. About your example, most Koreans now learn English in school while very few westerners learn Korean in school. I could easily survive in Korea without knowing Korean while a Korean would have a much harder time in the US if he didn't know English. You're kidding right? 20% of my customers don't speak English and they're surviving just fine. The NASL finals are going to be held in Los Angeles, and it just so happens the Koreatown in LA has the largest population of Koreans outside of Asia. | ||
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dmillz
Canada270 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:49 LegendaryZ wrote: It's not like being born in Korea somehow makes you a superior Starcraft player. If they are more skilled as a group, it's because they've worked hard, built a good system and earned it. If anything, putting them up against foreign competition should only encourage foreign players to work even harder, making their own scene stronger as a whole. Well said! Limiting the player pool only says "we can't compete" and will make the division between Korea and everyone else even larger. | ||
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LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
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PsYLaR
Canada49 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:52 dmillz wrote: Well said! Limiting the player pool only says "we can't compete" and will make the division between Korea and everyone else even larger. Exactly! Work like a korean and you will be at their level | ||
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absalom86
Iceland1770 Posts
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DiaBoLuS
Germany1638 Posts
"Going for pure skill and putting too many koreans in, you couldnt call the whole thing NASL anymore, while not inviting any Koreans makes the league meaningless" That's what i came up with:  Jinro, SjoW, BratOK, Demuslim, Kas, TLO, Strelok, Tarson, ClouD, GoOdy ||| Fenix, Loner ||| SeleCt, qxc, KawaiiRice, Drewbie ||| Mvp, MarineKing, BoxeR, NaDa  White-Ra, Naniwa, Socke, MaNa, HasuObs, Adelscott, Nightend ||| HuK, Tyler, Kiwikaki, Cruncher, Axlav ||| MC, Tester, Inca.  ret, MorroW, Dimaga, HayprO ||| mOOnGLaDe, Sen ||| IdrA, Slush, Sheth, Strifecro, Machine, CatZ ||| NesTea, JulyZerg, Fruitdealer. → 20 , 15 , 15 → 21 EU, 15 NA, 10 Kor [2 per group], 4 rest As much as i'd like to see Artosis, Incrontrol, Mondragon, Grubby and ToD in the NASL, i dont think they deserved it. If they have the skilllvl, they can qualify for the 2nd season just like all the other good players, from whatever country they might be. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:51 red4ce wrote: You're kidding right? 20% of my customers don't speak English and they're surviving just fine. The NASL finals are going to be held in Los Angeles, and it just so happens the Koreatown in LA has the largest population of Koreans outside of Asia. Yeah I was thinking the same thing. There are quite a few people who live in this country that don't speak English. At Penn State there was a large amount of students from Asia that spoke terrible English if they spoke it at all and they got by just fine. Now I'm in California and there are a ton of people who don't speak English and live perfectly good lives. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5676 Posts
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guluru
United States83 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:43 0neder wrote: Growing e-sports in the West doesn't mean you need mostly Western players from the get-go - it means you grow the fan-base by showing the best players, and eventually it will hopefully be more balanced between player regions. Also, giving Koreans free reign exposes more fans to the Korean scene, BW, etc, which can only be a good thing. Which will get NA a bigger player base eventually, etc. If they are trying to grow the fan-base, it would come from people who don't already watch a lot of starcraft and will most likely be in NA/EU. Most people would like to relate to their favorite player or have the chance to cheer for someone who is representing them and their country. I root for the US during the world cup even when I know for a fact they aren't anywhere near the best. I root for them because they are representing me and I had a lot of fun watching and cheering for them. If I stepped into this scene brand new and only saw Koreans, I wouldn't be motivated at all to play/watch. People did connect to BW through Korea and that's where many of you are coming from. But to grow western eSports, that just doesn't seem like a very good option. The players will still be GOOD. Just because they aren't from Korea or aren't the "best" does not mean they aren't good and will not provide entertaining games. They stated they want Koreans, and they most likely will. But we do not need the whole league to only be Koreans to appeal to the western Community. | ||
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stratman
Canada110 Posts
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Klamity
United States994 Posts
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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Kazang
578 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:38 infinity2k9 wrote: Your analogy is terrible though. The premiership has mostly foreign players in, and it's the biggest league in the world because of it. The NASL should not prioritize a load of unworthy NA players to get in just because they are known. It undermines the competition. No my analogy is fine. UK Premiership attracts foreign players, they come and play IN the UK. What country they were born in doesn't matter at all, it is where they are that matters. It's the biggest league in the world because it has the most money and attracts the best players. See the point? If a player wants to play in the UK Premiership and and earn their millions they have to come live on a grubby little island and play there. Likewise if players want to compete in the North American star league they should be in NA, not in Korea, or anywhere else. I said in post it should apply to players resident in NA, not "a load of unworthy NA players to get in just because they are known". If IM want to move to NA to compete in NASL just like Liquid had to to compete in GSL then more power to them. I hope they do, but I really don't want to have them playing from across the pacific on a shitty connection, having it online at all is bad enough without taking it to playing across different continents. I think it's a joke to ignore the physical boundaries of the world and say it's ok to play in a NA league from another continent. | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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gosuMalicE
Canada676 Posts
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N3rV[Green]
United States1935 Posts
I am just very very confused as to where all this heated debate of KR vs the world came from....From the beginning, the NASL has said that they want to bring the best players from ALL OVER THE WORLD to compete in a North American BASED league. To me, that's a pretty clear statement that no region will be favored, and the "NA" from "NASL" comes more from the home base location of the organization than anything else. I'm all for Koreans playing in the league, but just saying without much in the way of proof that only players that play in the GSL are the top players in the world is just stupid. Tyler just took out Jinro at PAX 3-1, he's never gonna touch the GSL. Is Tyler not a "top player"? BitByBitPrime was in the GSL, he even won games. Is he a "top player"? Seriously people that call this place home, stop for a second, and really think about wtf it is you're arguing about. Honestly it's all pretty silly. I want good players from all over the fucking place, smashing eachother over the head in the virtual arena known as starcraft 2. I want all nationalities, battling it out, seeing who really is on top. 45 Koreans and "huk idra jinro ect" is called the GSL. We already have that tournament. NASL is a different tournament. | ||
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Chicane
United States7875 Posts
In the other thread which originated this one... some people were saying that rivalries and things like that can't happen... and I completely disagree. Some players (to name one... Axslav) already feel that their rivals are the best Korean players so they can definitely be formed, and furthermore I feel that having people cheering for NA/EU over Koreans (obviously not everyone would, but for the people against the Koreans being in the league) this will also be great for them. I personally enjoy watching NA/EU players more than Koreans because the player's personalities are important to me as a spectator, but I feel that adding maybe 10 Koreans would be great for the tournament and Esports in general. One last thing, it seems that a lot of people feel threatened because the language barrier and things along those lines seem to come up far too often, but at the same time there are so many players currently who have language barriers from other countries, or simply aren't social whatsoever... yet they aren't criticized at all. I won't name names for who you never see in the spotlight or who you see talking... but if the problem really is that there won't be rivalries and communication... then why not also throw in all the people who aren't vocal as well? Well the answer is simply because it seems a bit ridiculous to not allow a NA player to play if he is the best but not social... on the other hand if it is a Korean it is much easier to argue because of the language barrier and their different culture. | ||
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