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Sc2 has already been played for more than a year you know.
ANd yeah, we're all hoping HotS will be great, but we don't believe in what blizzard has done so far.
Well personally i have no problems with how blizzard is going about this. It seems most people expect blizzard to release new balance patches on a weekly basis. Its not a fast process, it must be tested, and they cant make too many changes at once. Also, as a player, i would be annoyed if every few weeks there was a new balance change and had to learn what all changes and whatnot and how strategies changed. HoTS beta should not be too far away, and i would expect lots of different ideas and testing to go through that. Anyways im rambling off topic now.
Anyways SC2 had some crazy things in it a year ago, it is quite different now.. In the end i just wish people could play the game, watch how it will evolve, and be patient for the changes to arrive, rather than bash blizzard and the game now, as i guarantee they will be great and for the best.
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Calgary25954 Posts
On March 10 2011 02:41 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 02:33 Chill wrote:On March 10 2011 02:32 Sm3agol wrote:On March 09 2011 09:11 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 09 2011 09:07 Pandain wrote:
Very good read. However I disagree(and think some things are misunderstood) with your post. For example, I feel like there are sufficient examples of micro which you outlined which exist in Broodwar. Take the "shuttle juke." To me that doesn't even look that hard. Just click, move, bring corsairs. Sure its cool, but that happens all the time with starcraft, with marines running back to their tank line in order to kill those banelings. No. It's not easy. With scourges chasing from behind, you can only turn at a certain angle to avoid the scourges hitting the shuttle from the back. Though most players don't have to do this, Kal had to avoid the scourges coming in from the right top. Now, if this was the middle of the map, Kal can run away right bottom and keep his shuttle safe. However, there was no chance for Kal to do this as they were on the bottom of the map. One wrong click in that video and the shuttle have exploded. Kal found the perfect angle to escape those scourges. And that's exactly why Brood War is dead as far as further growth is concerned. Noone knows any of that unless you have physically played the game, and to a modern gamer that is used to how modern game mechanics work......that doesn't even look remotely difficult. Hence, me watching that same action which might give you chills.....gives me a giant meh. It means nothing to me. Watching someone do a perfect zergling/baneling surround and dropping all the marines with banelings while avoiding marauders is much more exciting and intense to me, because that's the game i understand. It's presumed that would be the job of commentator to explain it to you. But I have had it explained. Then I rewatched it. Still means nothing to me because I haven't played the game.
I haven't driven a racing car but I can still feel something is difficult by the commentator's excitement and his explanation.
I'm talking about an English commentator during the time of the move, not reading text and then going back to rewatch it. Of course that wouldn't have the same feeling.
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On March 10 2011 02:44 TheAura wrote:Show nested quote +Sc2 has already been played for more than a year you know.
ANd yeah, we're all hoping HotS will be great, but we don't believe in what blizzard has done so far.
Well personally i have no problems with how blizzard is going about this. It seems most people expect blizzard to release new balance patches on a weekly basis. Its not a fast process, it must be tested, and they cant make too many changes at once. Also, as a player, i would be annoyed if every few weeks there was a new balance change and had to learn what all changes and whatnot and how strategies changed. HoTS beta should not be too far away, and i would expect lots of different ideas and testing to go through that. Anyways im rambling off topic now. Anyways SC2 had some crazy things in it a year ago, it is quite different now.. In the end i just wish people could play the game, watch how it will evolve, and be patient for the changes to arrive, rather than bash blizzard and the game now, as i guarantee they will be great and for the best.
Why should I play and watch a game for what it might become, when I have one that I enjoy much more at the moment ?
Chill, if you cast TSL3, I might even tune it to watch it^^
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Why should I play and watch a game for what it might become, when I have one that I enjoy much more at the moment ?
I dont care what you watch or play, my point is for people to stop complaining about the micro in SC2 at such an early stage, and to just enjoy the game and be patient for changes if you don't like it so far.
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On March 10 2011 02:41 eviltomahawk wrote:
SC2/BW fans can try their hardest to convince BW/SC2 fans why their game is better, but these arguments are all in vain until the fans actually try the games out for themselves and judge them from their own experiences.
This is my biggest problem with people on both sides. Most of the flamers haven't actually played the other game so they have no idea what they're talking about. This is also why I keep playing/watching both games despite enjoying BW more. I want to be able to make informed arguments.
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On March 10 2011 02:47 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 02:44 TheAura wrote:Sc2 has already been played for more than a year you know.
ANd yeah, we're all hoping HotS will be great, but we don't believe in what blizzard has done so far.
Well personally i have no problems with how blizzard is going about this. It seems most people expect blizzard to release new balance patches on a weekly basis. Its not a fast process, it must be tested, and they cant make too many changes at once. Also, as a player, i would be annoyed if every few weeks there was a new balance change and had to learn what all changes and whatnot and how strategies changed. HoTS beta should not be too far away, and i would expect lots of different ideas and testing to go through that. Anyways im rambling off topic now. Anyways SC2 had some crazy things in it a year ago, it is quite different now.. In the end i just wish people could play the game, watch how it will evolve, and be patient for the changes to arrive, rather than bash blizzard and the game now, as i guarantee they will be great and for the best. Why should I play and watch a game for what it might become, when I have one that I enjoy much more at the moment ? Chill, if you cast TSL3, I might even tune it to watch it^^
No one is forcing you to watch SC2. It's perfectly fine and respectable for you to play and follow BW nowadays. You are completely entitled to ignoring the SC2 scene entirely and following the BW exclusively. If Blizzard fails SC2, you wouldn't notice a thing, and the status quo would be maintained.
Nevertheless, SC2 does produce some nice matches that are worth checking out from time to time out of curiosity.
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On March 10 2011 02:56 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 02:47 corumjhaelen wrote:On March 10 2011 02:44 TheAura wrote:Sc2 has already been played for more than a year you know.
ANd yeah, we're all hoping HotS will be great, but we don't believe in what blizzard has done so far.
Well personally i have no problems with how blizzard is going about this. It seems most people expect blizzard to release new balance patches on a weekly basis. Its not a fast process, it must be tested, and they cant make too many changes at once. Also, as a player, i would be annoyed if every few weeks there was a new balance change and had to learn what all changes and whatnot and how strategies changed. HoTS beta should not be too far away, and i would expect lots of different ideas and testing to go through that. Anyways im rambling off topic now. Anyways SC2 had some crazy things in it a year ago, it is quite different now.. In the end i just wish people could play the game, watch how it will evolve, and be patient for the changes to arrive, rather than bash blizzard and the game now, as i guarantee they will be great and for the best. Why should I play and watch a game for what it might become, when I have one that I enjoy much more at the moment ? Chill, if you cast TSL3, I might even tune it to watch it^^ No one is forcing you to watch SC2. It's perfectly fine and respectable for you to play and follow BW nowadays. You are completely entitled to ignoring the SC2 scene entirely and following the BW exclusively. If Blizzard fails SC2, you wouldn't notice a thing, and the status quo would be maintained. Nevertheless, SC2 does produce some nice matches that are worth checking out from time to time out of curiosity.
Oh I do.
What I criticize is is the idea "I watch the game because one day the micro will (might) be good", I find that... especially has there are good arguments saying it probably won't change. But as I said, I'll watch what comes out of the expansions.
On the other hand, there have been pretty good reasons given in this thread (in the first few posts following Hot Bid's for instance).
I'd like to see those good and entertaining game of sc2,because honestly, trying to download VODs of highly rated games on internet has cost me more annoyance than reward so far :/ But I keep checking...
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One barrier of entry here is, of course, that the best SC2 matches cost money. If you have a spare $5, buy the season pass for GSL Team League and check out the finals between Startale and IM. Mainly set 6.
I'm gonna requote my post from earlier in the thread because, not to toot my own horn or anything, but I think I did a pretty good job of suggesting what motivates a really devoted SC2 fan. I don't personally feel anything more needs to be said, at least for my part.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 09 2011 17:34 Turgid wrote:
I like BW, but I got into SC2 first. I know how nailbiting those shuttle juke moments are. I know how much of a struggle it is to macro near-perfectly off 5 bases and still do sick swarms and position lurkers perfectly and get surrounds with zerglings and having played bw how much of a struggle it is TO JSUT MOVE YOUR SHIT ACROSS AN OPEN FIELD but even sitting there and actively thinking "Wow, that was pretty hard to do!" doesn't make it any more exciting to me. Not even every Brood War fan likes Flash despite the fact that he's probably the most skilled player. That says something to me about the role the skill of the people you're observing plays in how much you like watching it. Yeah, it's fun to watch people do something difficult very well, but it doesn't have primacy when I'm watching something for entertainment.
I don't know what it is about SC2. I like BW, I really do. Bisu vs Jaedong not too long ago was amazing. I watched Flash vs Effort and that was totally sick. I'm a Stork fan and tune into most of his games, and I love it practically every time. I was on the edge of my seat watching OSL finals VODs. But there's just something about a Clide vs Ace, a Clide vs Leenock, a Squirtle vs MVP that's just magic to me. Nothing tops it.
I think I have something in common with people who have been watching BW for a long time and are really passionate about it. Sometimes you're just watching a match, you're on the edge of your seat, eyes wide, watching every move, and you get that feeling in your stomach that something really incredible is happening. You lean forward, and you don't notice but your front teeth are sinking into your index finger. It's just... I dunno. I imagine I'm not the only one who feels that way sometimes. BW is great to watch but it doesn't do that for me. SC2 does.
Some people watch the NFL. Some people watch the NBA. Some people watch Premiere League. Some people watch college, some people watch pro. Don't hate.
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On March 10 2011 03:03 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 02:56 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 10 2011 02:47 corumjhaelen wrote:On March 10 2011 02:44 TheAura wrote:Sc2 has already been played for more than a year you know.
ANd yeah, we're all hoping HotS will be great, but we don't believe in what blizzard has done so far.
Well personally i have no problems with how blizzard is going about this. It seems most people expect blizzard to release new balance patches on a weekly basis. Its not a fast process, it must be tested, and they cant make too many changes at once. Also, as a player, i would be annoyed if every few weeks there was a new balance change and had to learn what all changes and whatnot and how strategies changed. HoTS beta should not be too far away, and i would expect lots of different ideas and testing to go through that. Anyways im rambling off topic now. Anyways SC2 had some crazy things in it a year ago, it is quite different now.. In the end i just wish people could play the game, watch how it will evolve, and be patient for the changes to arrive, rather than bash blizzard and the game now, as i guarantee they will be great and for the best. Why should I play and watch a game for what it might become, when I have one that I enjoy much more at the moment ? Chill, if you cast TSL3, I might even tune it to watch it^^ No one is forcing you to watch SC2. It's perfectly fine and respectable for you to play and follow BW nowadays. You are completely entitled to ignoring the SC2 scene entirely and following the BW exclusively. If Blizzard fails SC2, you wouldn't notice a thing, and the status quo would be maintained. Nevertheless, SC2 does produce some nice matches that are worth checking out from time to time out of curiosity. Oh I do. What I criticize is is the idea "I watch the game because one day the micro will (might) be good", I find that... especially has there are good arguments saying it probably won't change. But as I said, I'll watch what comes out of the expansions. On the other hand, there have been pretty good reasons given in this thread (in the first few posts following Hot Bid's for instance). I'd like to see those good and entertaining game of sc2,because honestly, trying to download VODs of highly rated games on internet has cost me more annoyance than reward so far :/ But I keep checking...
I do agree that the idea of watching the game based on its potential is a weak argument. However, it's still good to watch matches where that micro potential is reached, like in Foxer vs Kyrix. At this point, cherry picking the best SC2 matches is going to be the best way of enjoying the scene, even though finding VODs is incredibly inconvenient, especially with GOM's strict copyright policy. However, it's those top-rated, entertaining games of SC2, not the average games, that show that there is still a long ways to go before "optimal play" is reached in SC2.
It's a much better idea to watch games that already have good micro rather than trying to watch games hoping to see good micro. As I said before, the best SC2 matches, not the average ones, are the ones which truly show the potential in the game.
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On March 10 2011 03:11 Turgid wrote:
One barrier of entry here is, of course, that the best SC2 matches cost money. If you have a spare $5, buy the season pass for GSL Team League and check out the finals between Startale and IM. Mainly set 6.
I won't, for other reasons, but I saw that particular match (Squirtle vs MVP isn't it). I guess it's exciting if you watch a lot of sc2 and don't often see macro games on huge map, and for the upset reason, but honestly, I did not think much of that game. I could expand on that if you wan't, but I think the thread is derailed enough already (pm if you want). It was about what was good in sc2, not about negativity... And I already brought enough.
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Micro is fun but I find that finger speed is much less impressive than intelligence and knowledge.
In the end, BW favours players with high APM and that's not the most interesting thing to watch in my opinion.
Now what I ask from SC2 is to be more complex...
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Not sure if my opinion is unique, but I'm kind of on the line of I prefer to watch and play sc2, but I do believe bw is currently still superior.
I think this has alot to do with the fact that I literally never knew anything about the bw pro-scene (just the fact that there was one, and it wasn't for an fps game  ) until I started following sc2 in the beta. I was getting bored of fps games, since I was about as good as you can get without going competitive and I didn't feel the time investment would be worth anything in the long run- then sc2 and the dailies caught my attention. Also, I would have bought sc2 just for nerdness' sake even without knowing of the competitive scene, which is kind of what lead me to teamliquid in the first place.
There is also the fact that I am now an sc2 player, but was never a bw player, unless you count silly ums games I don't know anything about bw strategy, so I would have to rely completely on commentators, and since I would really only want to watch the koreans (well... I don't think there's any other bw to watch left is there?) that makes it incredibly difficult to follow. I don't know what's standard, what's risky, what's turtling, when an expansion is early or late, any timings whatsoever, and lack of game knowledge means anything that's not expressly shown on the main screen is a complete mystery to me- and as such I don't like taking the time to watch bw games even though I do think they are better overall. Because of absolutely limited game knowledge, I have no "oh shit that was awesome!" moments outside of large battles where the crowd is screaming
There is also a matter of aesthetics, when you haven't been following a game all these years it's pretty difficult to just start watching something with such outdated graphics, compounded with the above issues :/
I do agree with all of the OP's points though. There is alot more impressive things going on in bw, and I still don't understand how to efficiently manage 5 bases and 10 control groups of armies and make it look just as fast as sc2. My hope is that sc2 will eventually look more complex than bw to a spectator because they have more apm to multitask attacks/drops without having to worry about hard macroing, individually producing out of 15 barracks and making sure you don't have 50 idle workers and such. Micro does seem very elementary at this point in the game as well, which I think has alot more to do with smarter ai and animations than just not being as good as bw players unfortunately.
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On March 10 2011 02:32 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 09:11 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 09 2011 09:07 Pandain wrote:
Very good read. However I disagree(and think some things are misunderstood) with your post. For example, I feel like there are sufficient examples of micro which you outlined which exist in Broodwar. Take the "shuttle juke." To me that doesn't even look that hard. Just click, move, bring corsairs. Sure its cool, but that happens all the time with starcraft, with marines running back to their tank line in order to kill those banelings. No. It's not easy. With scourges chasing from behind, you can only turn at a certain angle to avoid the scourges hitting the shuttle from the back. Though most players don't have to do this, Kal had to avoid the scourges coming in from the right top. Now, if this was the middle of the map, Kal can run away right bottom and keep his shuttle safe. However, there was no chance for Kal to do this as they were on the bottom of the map. One wrong click in that video and the shuttle have exploded. Kal found the perfect angle to escape those scourges. And that's exactly why Brood War is dead as far as further growth is concerned. Noone knows any of that unless you have physically played the game, and to a modern gamer that is used to how modern game mechanics work......that doesn't even look remotely difficult. Hence, me watching that same action which might give you chills.....gives me a giant meh. It means nothing to me. Watching someone do a perfect zergling/baneling surround and dropping all the marines with banelings while avoiding marauders is much more exciting and intense to me, because that's the game i understand. I got into SC/SC2 right when the SC2 first look videos came out, and I started watching a lot of BW matches right then. It was entertaining, and I liked it, but as soon as the SC2 beta came out and people started streaming, and tournaments started going, I immediately jumped to that as it was much clearer what was going on and people were coming up with something new and exciting every single week it seemed. I tried to go back to watching BW, but after watching just a little SC2, i could not go back. I'd never played either, so what you called amazing micro/macro was just "normal" to me. By the same token, what happened in SC2 was "normal" to me, but the level of play quickly started ramping up, and seeing games like Kiwi's amazing 5 blink stalkers vs an entire base game was just amazing and jaw-dropping to me, because noone had really done anything like that before. It all basically comes down too......what do you feel like following? I tried to get into BW after SC2, but it just didn't click to me. It's just meh. It looks like crap, and I've played too many RTS games to go back to a 1998 UI. SC2 has plenty of drama for me, as well as an untouchable skill ceiling. I'm also going to say that some of your pure nostalgiac bias shines brightly in this thread. Saying things like you prefer to know less as a spectator.........that knowing everything that is going on is bad. ROFL? Then just turn your video off and listen to the game based on sound. YOu'll hear that intense battle going on, storms going off, units dying, WHO IS GOING TO COME OUT AHEAD??!?!?!? BS. More information is more exciting. It lets you think on the same level as the player. Edit: also, I will fully agree that SC2 is being played at an extremely crappy level right now. Even watching the "best" the game has to offer, and even with all the advantages of a much better UI, and easier mechanics, they still make an epic ton of mistakes that even I as a casual observer can pick out. So give it more time before trashing it for not being exciting. P.S. Colossi MUST go.
What. The. FUCK?
Even without the explanation of the AI, its fairly obvious to many people that the trick was hard to do. We're throwing in extra spices in TL because it should be easy for people to understand here.
And why do you think commentators explain stuff during stream?
Want my 100% honest biased opinion?
Spectating in SC2 sucks ass. I watch a match, and then I see that one player is far out ahead in both food and resource count. And then I realize that the user with more minerals and food has shitload of army coming out. I know the other player is going to lose. And then I fall a sleep because watching DB fight is boring as hell since it doesn't involve too much micro to actually battle at 'current' top level.
Compare that to BW: I almost fell over my fucking chair. Three times. All while watching free vs hiya.
Besides, when game is actually played in SC2, you only need to micro the units very well in beginning of the game, or in few matchups such as PvP. My hands are cold as hell when I play about 10~20 matches of SC2. My hands start to sweat when I play one single game of BW.
You wanted a biased opinion? You got one.
Actually, you know what would be fun? Recreate the same move using BW mechanics. See how easy it is. And no, you may not try 234290348239 times and just post: I did it.
EDIT: Your argument can be used in any game. 'I haven't played SC2 so that blink stalker looks normal to me. The SC2 scene is going to die now'
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I do agree that the idea of watching the game based on its potential is a weak argument.
You must have gotten that from my post somehow, but i have no idea how as I did not that say that at all. sigh
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On March 09 2011 08:19 Kipsate wrote:
How many times have you heard it?
Balls make SC2 unfun to watch etc.
However to understand why you need to understand how the ball actually does this rather then be screamed at by BW fan people.
Simply put, balls mean clumping, clumping means reduced surface area. This affects melee units especially, zerglings have hard time engaging even a ball of stalkers in a good amount. Even if you surround say 12 stalkers with 50 zerglings, not all 50 zerglings can even attack, most of them will run around like idiots tryinig to find a hole to fit in to attack. Sure the zerglings will come out on top, however as you see melee units are much weaker in that aspect compared to Brood War. Because there was no clumping there(save from air clumping like muta's sairs etc) this made zerglings effective and neglected the massive advantage that range gain over melee partially.
Not only Zerglings suffer from this, ranged units actually do too. Units with superior range, such as the Collosus have a easy time shooting with their 9 range from the safety of their ball. However units such as the hydralisks or the roach can hardly reach the collosi, why?Because it is in a ball and is effectivly BLOCKED by stalkers, forcefields(more on this later) and units due to clumping.
This point is flawed, the range advantage is smaller with better pathing since the biggest difference is how easy the melee units have to get to the ranged units. The clumping favors the melee units since you effectively have more space so all bottlenecks are relatively larger.
Why are melee units not used as much? Mostly because zerglings were heavily nerfed, they attack ~80% faster in sc1. Also because the maps are much tighter so even though the clumping alleviates much of the bottlenecking we now have much more bottlenecks favoring ranged units. Lastly air has gotten more dangerous making ranged units more important than before.
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On March 10 2011 04:41 TheAura wrote:Show nested quote +I do agree that the idea of watching the game based on its potential is a weak argument. You must have gotten that from my post somehow, but i have no idea how as I did not that say that at all. sigh
I actually got that from another post that was part of a thread of posts originating from your post (whatever that means lol). I guess the meaning got muddled in there somehow after several iterations of opinions.
But more seriously, for the people who are short on time and patience, watching SC2 hoping to see excellent micro/macro may not be the best way for them to enjoy the game. The game is gravitating towards higher quality matches, but the average match quality isn't up to the standards that the BW enthusiasts are looking for. Why make them watch a live match of MKP hoping for a sight of his marine micro when there is a VOD of MKP vs Kyrix available?
I guess what I'm trying to say, in vain, is that when trying to please SC2 doubters, it's best to show them the best VODs of matches instead of making them watch live matches and risk exposing them to less entertaining games in the hopes that one of the matches has the potential of becoming epic.
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On March 10 2011 04:57 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 04:41 TheAura wrote:I do agree that the idea of watching the game based on its potential is a weak argument. You must have gotten that from my post somehow, but i have no idea how as I did not that say that at all. sigh I actually got that from another post that was part of a thread of posts originating from your post (whatever that means lol). I guess the meaning got muddled in there somehow after several iterations of opinions. But more seriously, for the people who are short on time and patience, watching SC2 hoping to see excellent micro/macro may not be the best way for them to enjoy the game. The game is gravitating towards higher quality matches, but the average match quality isn't up to the standards that the BW enthusiasts are looking for. Why make them watch a live match of MKP hoping for a sight of his marine micro when there is a VOD of MKP vs Kyrix available? I guess what I'm trying to say, in vain, is that when trying to please SC2 doubters, it's best to show them the best VODs of matches instead of making them watch live matches and risk exposing them to less entertaining games in the hopes that one of the matches has the potential of becoming epic.
Finally someone with a good quality post.
Many people just want to see what the game's capable of, and they always go for the matches. For example (from what I've been hearing), GSTL finals and Flash vs Bisu on HBR during WCG.
TBH, I never expect an exciting match when I watch the streams live for BW, even for a matchup like Flash vs Jaedong. I never did. I just predict who's going to win and see how it turns out.
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I don't watch much SC2, but after reading this thread, I tried giving it another go. I went up to the top-righthand side of the page and watched whatever featured SC2 user streams that I could find.
I noticed nothing but One Control Group Syndrome. Some guy was playing a PvT, had expanded, and was defending his expansion with a sentry, three zealots, and two stalkers. He kept all of them selected at once, and the entirety of his micro consisted of right clicking that group to places and casting force fields.
I can't help but think of that one moment of Bisu vs some Terran on Python, where he spawns at 3. The T is trying to scout with an scv, and he repels it outside his natural with a single zealot. Fucking amazing micro. Small battle micro is a good opportunity to let each player's mechanics really shine, and as far as I've seen, no one takes that opportunity in SC2. They always just 1a over everything. The thing is, "1a2a3a4a gg no re" in Brood War was kind of a joke. Protoss actually did quite a bit of micro for things such as push breaking, Sair/Reaver, and such. In SC2, "1a" is not a joke. It's what people actually do.
Also, force fields is the stupidest spell ever. There's absolutely no opportunity for counterplay. The Protoss just casts it without hesitation, and it doesn't matter what the opponent does.
Anyways, yeah, I fell asleep watching SC2. 
EDIT: I agree with the post a couple above this one. I am legitimately interested in getting into SC2. It's just that from what I see in these streams, nothing interesting happens. Could someone post a VOD of what they think is the most exciting SC2 game ever?
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agree with OP, not going to read many posts since im not going to argue anything out
i dont play either game but the sc2 ball isnt attractive to look at for sure and just makes most battles look boring, but sc2 players probably dont care/are used to it. it does make the unit control much more fluid though, and apparently a lot of sc2 players put value in the fact that sc1 units arent fluid like this(cmon they arent even playing)
i dont really care about how hard it is to do except i want to see stuff die and sc1 fills the screen with blue goo!
also with strategy, they are basically similar, i'm hoping sc2 will become more complex such that i want to watch these games but im tired of watching cheesy games and the game hasnt evolved to that point yet.
seriously, i still havent seen stuff pulled off like some other night a few weeks ago, flash vs mind where at a horribly losing disadvantage, flash takes half his army does a drop and snipes minds BC tech thus setting mind back at a position where flash can catch up in BC count and beat him in upgrades where he was losing before and fight back to a win. has something like that ever happened in SC2? i mean its theoretically possible but i just havent seen it.
lastly, tasteless was better during gom intel and i think he knew sc1 better than sc2. i'm kind of saddened that he toned down, became more "professional" (panda bear guy will always be in our memories), and too many cigs
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On March 10 2011 04:23 Kukaracha wrote:
Micro is fun but I find that finger speed is much less impressive than intelligence and knowledge.
In the end, BW favours players with high APM and that's not the most interesting thing to watch in my opinion.
Now what I ask from SC2 is to be more complex...
Most of the best player in BW have not been high APM monsters, but extremely intelligent players. OOV and savior both had low APM, but were so dominant because of their amazing strategies and game knowledge. The current best player, flash, isn't nearly the most technical player, but has shown incredible game-changing strategies, gamesense, and amazing metagames and mindgames.
People always have this misconception that BW favors high APM over gamesense and knowledge, it doesn't. Just like in sports, where a certain level of athleticism is a requirement, a certain level of mechanics is required to compete. After that, it's all about strategy. No one complains about needing good cardio and strength to compete in sports, why does anyone complain about requiring mechanics and APM in an ESPORT?
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EPT
