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On March 09 2011 02:00 Noocta wrote: I wish they were faster, even with less dps. Zerg need to be fast, slow high dps unit don't fit well into the playstyle. They are a protoss unit in a zerg army.
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On March 09 2011 02:10 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 02:00 Noocta wrote: I wish they were faster, even with less dps. Zerg need to be fast, slow high dps unit don't fit well into the playstyle. They are a protoss unit in a zerg army. Well said.
The hydra needs some serious twinking or it's going to become another reaper.
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I've been trying to use more hydras in my play and I just finished a game where I droped my hydras onto the opponent and crushed him it can be viable but it really needs a speed boost and or a armor buff
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people forget that hydras affect the meta game of PvZ even if you dont use them, because the fact that zerg CAN get hydras forces the protoss to tech for AoE.
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Patch 1.3 is going to make hydras a very common ZvZ unit. Fungal shuts down mutas so hard right now that there's no need for GtA units beyond queens and infestors. Once mutas can dodge fungals, you'll start to see a lot more mutas, and roach players will have to respond with hydras.
FWIW, hydras also fill a critical ZvP role forcing colossi. (Believe it or not, if it weren't for hydras, we Protoss players would be happy to take a comfortable third behind an immortal push and then go immortal stormer for the win.) There are also very powerful hydra attack timings before colossus range that are particularly effective with OL speed for creep spread. With drops, you can also ninja the hydras up cliffs to deal with colossus positioning. It's very deadly.
In ZvT, hydras are AWESOME against bio. If T goes FE into bio, you can make some hydras and a couple infestors and be invincible to mass expand until tanks.
So I think you'll see more hydras soon in ZvZ, and in the other MU's, even if you don't see hydras used a lot, they're still performing critical roles in the metagame.
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On March 09 2011 02:21 kcdc wrote:
FWIW, hydras also fill a critical ZvP role forcing colossi. (Believe it or not, if it weren't for hydras, we Protoss players would be happy to take a comfortable third behind an immortal push and then go immortal stormer for the win.) There are also very powerful hydra attack timings before colossus range that are particularly effective with OL speed for creep spread. With drops, you can also ninja the hydras up cliffs to deal with colossus positioning. It's very deadly.
This. /Thread
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On March 09 2011 02:16 dark fury wrote: people forget that hydras affect the meta game of PvZ even if you dont use them, because the fact that zerg CAN get hydras forces the protoss to tech for AoE. Did you even think about what you just said before you hit post, you make it sound like colossi and high templar are units that protoss only gets because of hydralisks. When is the last time you saw a solid hydra push, now how often do you see solid 6 gate pushes for wins? Hydras are used because theirs literally nothing else to use, exempting pure roach/corrupter, which only implies that roaches are better then hydras in the first place.
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do you think that the reaper is a dyeing unit?
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On March 09 2011 01:51 MarKeD wrote: Hydras rape the core 3 gateway units, every stargate unit and 3/4 robotics facility units (sure war prisms and observers arent attacking units, but access to hydras allows you to shutdown both drops and obs scouting). Colossus and High Templar are cost effective against hydras, both of which have a massive gas cost associated with them. So buffing hydras is the obvious solution right?
You note that Obs and Warp Prisms aren't attacking units, yet you include them your argument anyways. I could replace Hydras with Marines in your argument and no one would notice the difference. Just because one unit is great in one matchup, doesn't mean it isn't weak.
You're completely ignoring the unit as a whole and blinded by how effective it is in your matchup. It's a useless unit in ZvT, soon to be phased out in ZvZ and goes from great to near useless in ZvP. Zerg has a small selection of units to pick from so to even have one that is situation specific is detrimental.
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buff hydra, nerf roach a little
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i think its unintentionally gimmicky. its amazing vs gateway units, immortals but completely terrible vs colossus, storm, terran. i think blizzard should definitely tweak it somehow. havin units taht are better against some units than others is fine, but it should be within reason.
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On March 09 2011 02:21 kcdc wrote: Patch 1.3 is going to make hydras a very common ZvZ unit. Fungal shuts down mutas so hard right now that there's no need for GtA units beyond queens and infestors. Once mutas can dodge fungals, you'll start to see a lot more mutas, and roach players will have to respond with hydras.
FWIW, hydras also fill a critical ZvP role forcing colossi. (Believe it or not, if it weren't for hydras, we Protoss players would be happy to take a comfortable third behind an immortal push and then go immortal stormer for the win.) There are also very powerful hydra attack timings before colossus range that are particularly effective with OL speed for creep spread. With drops, you can also ninja the hydras up cliffs to deal with colossus positioning. It's very deadly.
In ZvT, hydras are AWESOME against bio. If T goes FE into bio, you can make some hydras and a couple infestors and be invincible to mass expand until tanks.
So I think you'll see more hydras soon in ZvZ, and in the other MU's, even if you don't see hydras used a lot, they're still performing critical roles in the metagame.
You seem to be higher lvl player than me so maybe I don't know something, but hydras awesome vs. bio? Are you kidding me? Or you are talking about situation where you have hydras and infestors vs. pure marines? Then yeah, you may be right, but then no idea what terran has been doing. If he adds tanks you are dead I think, and tanks don't take forever to build afaik. Actually I watch good amount of pro games and in last 3 month I haven't seen anyone go hydra vs. terran.
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Useful in some cases like for drop all-INS but a terrible core unit. Only good versus heavy immortal play... They are just too slow and weak. I the fact that terran andto some extent Protoss can use all units for matchup provided they have the right upgrade but not Zerg...at all. Don't mean to QQ but I don't get to use my favorite units often like the ultra and hydra. With this in mind I think ZvP is a balanced matchups because all of boths races units are viable in some situations whereas it is never a good idea to use hydras in ZvT.
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I think with simple speed upgrade for 125/125 (+-25 minerals and gas) it will become much better and much more used in every match
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As long as it stays useful in ZvP, I'm happy. They're only useful in one matchup in StarCraft 1, you know.
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Hydras are amazing against protoss gateway units before they get colossus. I don't see what's wrong with it?
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On March 09 2011 02:39 SoulScream wrote: I think with simple speed upgrade for 125/125 (+-25 minerals and gas) it will become much better and much more used in every match
Their health would still be pathetic and they'd still instantly disappear at the start of every battle once the opponent has AoE.
If you build hydras you're under a timelimit to do something with them before AoE renders them completely worthless.
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On March 09 2011 02:16 dark fury wrote: people forget that hydras affect the meta game of PvZ even if you dont use them, because the fact that zerg CAN get hydras forces the protoss to tech for AoE. which happens to be what they would do anyways
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and on the other hand we have the arguments from people that want imbalanced units fighting imbalanced units. Guess no one will even be happy hehe.
PS: try chargelots against hydra only just like bw a good match those two (well roaches are good anti zealot tanks for hydras), especially if you manage to be on perfect range with your guardian shield to prevent sniping.
well it seems that zerg players don't like that they have to build more then 3 units in a matchup to win against the 14 units of the opponent, but at the same time they don't have enough units its so complicated to make them happy, that zerg hopefully stays the way it is, since i really like playing the race and especially love the hydra.
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On March 09 2011 00:38 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 00:16 Pepe- wrote: Hydra is fine, its the Roach rangebuff that made the Hydra less needed. Worst mis-information out there. Hydras are shitty cuz hydras are shitty, roaches have nothing to do with it. That's like trying to claim that Colossus make Stalkers pointless. There is no correlation between the units what-so ever. In fact, the roach buff should make hydras MORE viable as they share upgrades and roaches are actually decent now.
You can play mass Roaches till lategame zvp while Hydra/Roach should be the choice, not?
Roach should be the lowrange "tank" unit while Hydras should do the damage, now many Roaches do well dps per cost aswell. Range buff was imo the wrong kind of buff.
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