IMBALANCED! - Introduction - Page 18
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If you have criticism, you need to address the content, not the hosts. Idra and Artosis are 2 (1.5) Zerg players, but you can't point that out and then blanket them as biased. Respond to the content. You can't tell them to "get 2 Terran and Protoss players". That's fucking obtuse advice. "Yo just get 4 more high level players to record with you." Yes, I think everyone sees the value in getting it, but it's not practical. Respond to the content and use evidence / logic to back up your claims. | ||
darklordjac
Canada2231 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On February 03 2011 13:11 Ratel wrote: Nerfing the collosus would only cause more imbalance, for the reason that a toss. SIMPLY. cannot survive in most games without collosus support, gateway units are so weak for their cost compared to the cheap roaches and hydras that collosus is the only thing that holds the protoss army together without getting slaughtered. the only thing that is imbalanced are the maps, .. and terran.. Thats what they said was toss needs a way to not HAVE to go colossi every game just to win. | ||
Mindflow
Korea (South)320 Posts
Have you guys not noticed how many terrans there are in the entire GSL community rather then the other races? Have you not noticed? Pretty sure theres more terrans in Korea then zerg and protoss combined. | ||
Fenrisulf
United States325 Posts
John said it best "you're just a traitor" I mean, from every balance comment that Artosis has ever made about ZvP during his GSL casts it seems that he just uses "I play P AND Z so i'm in a good position to comment about balance" to be able to QQ about zerg with some semblance of fairness. So many times I have seen him comment "this kinda rush/play is super hard for Z to defend...I know from experience" and then watch as the Zerg easily defends and moves on to crush the attacking protoss. I agree that Collosus is sort of broken (not OP but broken) it is relied on very heavily in every matchup. However, there is a reason for that. Outside of a very early rushes, gateway armies are just too weak. Zergs complain that the "protoss deathball" is too hard to stop. But for the Protoss player the question isn't "how to stop zerg deathball" it's "how do I survive until I get there", Nerf collosus? sure, go for it, but you better be buffing up something else, cuz without collosus there is a gaping hole in the protoss army. Otherwise we wont see a protoss out of Ro16 in the upcoming GSLs unless he 4 gates every game. | ||
Ratel
Canada184 Posts
On February 03 2011 13:15 Fenrisulf wrote: Every time Artosis says "as a player who plays both races" I cringe. John said it best "you're just a traitor" I mean, from every balance comment that Artosis has ever made about ZvP during his GSL casts it seems that he just uses "I play P AND Z so i'm in a good position to comment about balance" to be able to QQ about zerg with some semblance of fairness. So many times I have seen him comment "this kinda rush/play is super hard for Z to defend...I know from experience" and then watch as the Zerg easily defends and moves on to crush the attacking protoss. I agree that Collosus is sort of broken (not OP but broken) it is relied on very heavily in every matchup. However, there is a reason for that. Outside of a very early rushes, gateway armies are just too weak. Zergs complain that the "protoss deathball" is too hard to stop. But for the Protoss player the question isn't "how to stop zerg deathball" it's "how do I survive until I get there", Nerf collosus? sure, go for it, but you better be buffing up something else, cuz without collosus there is a gaping hole in the protoss army. Otherwise we wont see a protoss out of Ro16 in the upcoming GSLs unless he 4 gates every game. this sir has worded it perfectly. It's hard to take Artosis and Idra seriously, because for fact: they are biast nerf the collosus and toss will be up, also i like how Idra says "you shouldnt be focused on one single unit" the toss CANNOT RELY ON ONE SINGLE UNIT. from the early stages to the late game there must be a perfect unit combination in the toss army. on the other hand the zerg can do perfectly fine by massing roaches or mutalisks.. User was warned for this post | ||
Cheeznuklz
60 Posts
You could tell us about Ret's results of his experiments with Infestors in PvZ, Ret's ideas and theory about how Infestors should be used Is there any way you could link me to something regarding this? I'm genuinely interested. | ||
skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
On February 03 2011 13:12 beetlelisk wrote: Instead you gave a green light to every single retarded faggot who wants to derail this thread, you directly caused the moderation to have unnecessary work to do here - and SC2 forums aren't the prime example of users following the rules to say at least. You are promoting the way of posting that is against the rules of the site you own and you are putting down people who want to contribute for free. After showing how you handle the LR threads and not only them, you did this? I am extremely dissapointed in you as an admin. You should be ashamed of yourself Nazgul. so you screaming around. blame other people and than you say your dissapointed in the admins? for what? that your account isnt banned yet? in one point i must agree with you the "SC2 forums aren't the prime example of users following the rules" ^^ | ||
MostDifferent
Norway124 Posts
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Tadzio
3340 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
P.S: For those taking the show beyond seriousness. If you treat their opinions like God's word and then continue to presume the consequential inevitable of people citing them when they're trying to make an argument about balance, then that's what's going to happen. Take it with a grain of salt and for those who do reference this show during arguments, just invalidate them by saying that that is one opinion I don't think imbalance topics or shows with opinions, as valid as they may or may not be, should be tabooed purely because of the misinterpretation, misuse or misquoting of it. We don't do things because of the repercussions, we do these sort of shows to enhance the conversation to a degree that everyone can comprehend and enjoy. Just enjoy the show and tackle their arguments, not the people. Galileo would be ashamed of all of you. | ||
SC2Phoenix
Canada2814 Posts
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Beedon
United States12 Posts
TBH tho it was pretty impressed. They kept it reasonable and I really appreciated the credit they gave to the idea of "some things seem imba but work themselves out." I was pleasantly surprised | ||
DeckOneBell
United States526 Posts
On February 03 2011 13:12 beetlelisk wrote: There is a huge difference between telling someone why is he wrong and basically telling someone it's hard not ridicule him because of bias and I don't mean their bias, I mean your views about them. You completely disregarded their points, you completely disregarded the work that was put into this video.
You could tell us about Ret's results of his experiments with Infestors in PvZ, Ret's ideas and theory about how Infestors should be used AS YOU ARE HIS MANAGER AND YOU ARE THE NUMBER ONE PERSON RESPOSNIBLE FOR EXPOSING YOUR PLAYERS and your sponsor because of that to fans and community as a whole. Instead you gave a green light to every single retarded faggot who wants to derail this thread, you directly caused the moderation to have unnecessary work to do here - and SC2 forums aren't the prime example of users following the rules to say at least. You are promoting the way of posting that is against the rules of the site you own and you are putting down people who want to contribute for free. After showing how you handle the LR threads and not only them, you did this? I am extremely dissapointed in you as an admin. You should be ashamed of yourself Nazgul. Dig this: Not every contribution to the community is a contribution everyone wants. Big T is a very obvious example that comes to mind. I'm mostly not interested in the video because everything that has been said has kind of been said one way or another through various channels. "Imbalance" talk in GENERAL, makes me annoyed. The fact they titled their video Imbalanced, well, they probably expected the reaction. Artosis and Idra aren't dumb, as much as they are... many things. No matter how professional the video, the very subject matter itself is almost inflammatory, meaning I'm not a huge fan. Just like any, no matter how constructive, SC2 and BW comparisons usually end in tears. Idra and Artosis did seem to attempt to be more balanced (hah!) than usual, I'll admit. I dunno. Basically: Video isn't bad, but whatever. | ||
Ansigcheo
United States79 Posts
On February 03 2011 09:45 Klamity wrote: IdrA commenting on balance... oh boy. This should be the beginning of something awesome. Nerds will forever cite this video in their balance arguments. Was thinking the EXACT same thing, haha! | ||
A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
I really enjoyed the show though. | ||
Tatsuyasama
Japan50 Posts
never liked his biased commentary at gsl neither do i like his personality. if u never won a big tournament, you shouldnt bashing players at gsl and make fun of them, its very unprofessional and dont make a good impression to koreans. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
Silmakuoppaanikinko
799 Posts
On February 03 2011 10:28 Backpack wrote: I agree with IdrA's thoughts on how Colossus are too good and it is a crutch for P. All of our other choices are weaker because the colossus is so good. I think we(protoss) need more options than just 4gate or colossus every game. Maybe just slightly OT but: I am in love. No colossus at all, holds off several pushes with phoenices as the main ingredient and then storms for the win. Though, I would say that a fair point about the colossus is that it's a T3 unit which almost every protoss seems to want to get in late game. This is quite unusual, not all Terrans go to thors, not all Zergs have their minds set on going to ultralisk. But a lot of Protoss players basically just measure their game in how many colossi they can get. PvP at its core is still almost only measuring army strength by colossus count. I actually had a match lately where I got the support bay just to research observer speed. :') saw no use in that colossus as the guy already had a tonne of vikings going on. | ||
Ratel
Canada184 Posts
On February 03 2011 13:44 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote: Though, I would say that a fair point about the colossus is that it's a T3 unit which almost every protoss seems to want to get in late game. This is quite unusual, not all Terrans go to thors, not all Zergs have their minds set on going to ultralisk. But a lot of Protoss players basically just measure their game in how many colossi they can get. PvP at its core is still almost only measuring army strength by colossus count. let me tell you why my friend. its most likely for the reason that gateway units are terrible against both, tier 1 terran, and tier 1 zerg. here! you got it! | ||
SgtSater
United States59 Posts
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Smigi
United States328 Posts
On February 03 2011 12:58 Bleb wrote: I honestly think show like this is horrible idea 2 macro zergs (yeah artosis is zerg player) discussing about balance? sorry but you need more different insight on subjet to make discussion valid. discussing about unit that is so late in tech tree is really not valid if you don't explain the situation better. was it 1 base collos rush? was it 2 base? was it fe? was it 3 base? what did zerg do? I mean... show me build that you're having problems with. for instance reapers weren't imba on their own. 5 rax reapers with speed was imba. build was rather easy to learn and it gave you total game control for first 10-15 mins. that's why blizzard nerfed it. I personally don't think this kind of discussions can lead to anything. discussion about protoss unit without decent protoss player?! come on! Honestly Artosis just sank in my eyes once again : ( Artosis plays protoss now. As you heard in the episode and on GSL, hes said multiple times he plays protoss. | ||
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