EPTIncidently, that's also why I don't think the youtube video had much merit in it. There's way too many factors to cover in a thirty minute time period (At least, when it comes to discussing a particular unit.) Artosis and Idra could narrow the scope down, by perhaps discussing a particular unit/strat on a particular type of map - that alone would be enough to fill 30 minutes.
IMBALANCED! - Introduction - Page 19
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If you have criticism, you need to address the content, not the hosts. Idra and Artosis are 2 (1.5) Zerg players, but you can't point that out and then blanket them as biased. Respond to the content. You can't tell them to "get 2 Terran and Protoss players". That's fucking obtuse advice. "Yo just get 4 more high level players to record with you." Yes, I think everyone sees the value in getting it, but it's not practical. Respond to the content and use evidence / logic to back up your claims. | ||
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Nightfall.589
Canada766 Posts
Incidently, that's also why I don't think the youtube video had much merit in it. There's way too many factors to cover in a thirty minute time period (At least, when it comes to discussing a particular unit.) Artosis and Idra could narrow the scope down, by perhaps discussing a particular unit/strat on a particular type of map - that alone would be enough to fill 30 minutes. | ||
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DarthMuppet
United States19 Posts
-ed: I also very much liked them discussing how imba or percieved imba effects the lower leagues like myself. example; marauders seem imba but there are things in my own game that I can improve to overcome. that was my issue, i'm not pro but nerfs still effect me. | ||
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Mafs
Canada458 Posts
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Foey
1 Post
On February 03 2011 09:45 kodas wrote: A zerg/protoss and a zerg talking about balance...I can see where this is going agree'd but thats like me discuss the matter cuz i play protoss, its never ending ending. i do agree i thought this was going to be a bit of a QQ show | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
I'll be watching for more. | ||
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ReDeSCh
United States37 Posts
although they're zerg players, they talk about what is hard to deal with. they havent yet said that its 'impossible' to deal with, just said its hard on the map pool. and that there could be problems for other match ups if the maps were more open and such. they haven't really qqed. although i think its pretty funny it was idra talking about imbalance, i think they do bring up good points. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
I will note, however, that in discussing the PvT colossus balance, it was explained: + Show Spoiler + Bio > Gateway Tech Colossus > Bio Vikings > Colossus Gateway Tech > Vikings Essentially, the natural circle of units-to-effective counters is what allowed for a feeling of balance. The colossus, in terms of PvT, was determined to be fairly balanced as it was viably counterable. But then, in ZvP, it was believed the Colossus may in fact not be balanced. However: + Show Spoiler + Hydralisk > Gateway Units (HT excluded) Hydra/Roach > Gateway Tech Colossus > Hydra/Roach Corruptor > Colossus Gateway Units > Corruptor Don't those two seem freakishly similar? Yup, because on large maps where you can re-max your army, this strategy is viable in ZvP. It would seem to me, that every balance discussion, no matter how well intended, the skill level of those analyzing, or the topic at hand- boils down to a discussion of the maps. As a community, I believe correcting the issues with the map pool needs to be our top priority. EDIT; Can't wait to hear discussion on the marauder. | ||
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dartoo
India2889 Posts
Maybe you could get a third member as a guest like in the sotg? and seeing as how you are in korea, maybe you could get a few koreans to join in, there must be some koreans who are decent and speak english, to a certain degree? It will be quite interesting to get their prespective on things. Edit:Actually, how about Jinro for a terran perspective? | ||
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Hollis
United States505 Posts
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Hokay
United States738 Posts
I look forward to the marauder and banelings! | ||
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gimpy
United States72 Posts
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DarthMuppet
United States19 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43492 Posts
On February 03 2011 13:39 Ansigcheo wrote: Was thinking the EXACT same thing, haha! As was I. I'm definitely going to enjoy watching the show though. I just hope it's not going to be a thinly-veiled "XvZ match-up has an overpowered unit" show. I do like the fact that they'll be taking suggestions from their fans!  | ||
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Hollis
United States505 Posts
On February 03 2011 14:15 DarthMuppet wrote: The meta game is very underestimated as far as balance though, Terran have recieved a huge amount of nerfs since GSL 1 when Zerg won but still Terran is dominating tournaments. I don't think that's discussed enough. It's because none of the terran nerfs addressed any of terran's key (arguably too strong) strengths in any meaningful way. | ||
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Mallard
United States129 Posts
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doffe
Sweden636 Posts
Balance in the lower leagues do exist though, ofc it does. There are units far harder to deal with then to use such as tanks, DTs, Banelings vs marines. etc but as they said, theres so many other things to improve on to make this the mainfocus. And to all the people complaining about about it being 2 zergs whining. Artosis is playing protoss now so I do think these two are a great pair to discuss atleast ZvP. Sure, both have a tendency to be biased but with opposing races atm thats not really an issue and tbh, can anyone be 100% objective when playing a fixed race? I like that they clearly say what they believe to be true and let other people make of it what they will. The best would be to include Torch or Tasteless into the group aswell for a T representative. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On February 03 2011 13:12 beetlelisk wrote: There is a huge difference between telling someone why is he wrong and basically telling someone it's hard not ridicule him because of bias and I don't mean their bias, I mean your views about them. You completely disregarded their points, you completely disregarded the work that was put into this video.
You could tell us about Ret's results of his experiments with Infestors in PvZ, Ret's ideas and theory about how Infestors should be used AS YOU ARE HIS MANAGER AND YOU ARE THE NUMBER ONE PERSON RESPOSNIBLE FOR EXPOSING YOUR PLAYERS and your sponsor because of that to fans and community as a whole. Instead you gave a green light to every single retarded faggot who wants to derail this thread, you directly caused the moderation to have unnecessary work to do here - and SC2 forums aren't the prime example of users following the rules to say at least. You are promoting the way of posting that is against the rules of the site you own and you are putting down people who want to contribute for free. After showing how you handle the LR threads and not only them, you did this? I am extremely dissapointed in you as an admin. You should be ashamed of yourself Nazgul. You realize you're the iconic mindless Zerg follower that people are talking about right? Your post defending IdrA and Artosis is ironic in so many ways. 1. You're telling Nazgul; the founder of the team and the website you're currently surfing on that you're dissapointed in him and that he should be ashamed of himself? Not only does this insult break the same "rules of posting" which you're criticizing him for breaking. It also takes an enormous amount of blind IdrA worship to not even see the irony in accusing Nazgul of bad posting while IdrA himself is the most offensive poster to ever to have roamed TL, breaking a minimum of 1 rule for every post he makes. 2. It's funny that you put Artosis and IdrA on a high pedestal for creating content for "free" whilst kicking down Nazgul who founded TeamLiquid and has been upkeeping and expanding both the site and the team for free during the last decade. 3. Neither Nazgul, nor any other critical poster had anything negative to say about the effort or the production value of the show. Just the complaint that Artosis and IdrA, as known balance "whiners" since the early days of Starcraft, aren't exactly the most objective source for balance discussion. You, and some other whiners for that matter, have managed to totally fulfill the biggest fear that people had in regards to this show; namely an increase in irrational Zerg whine posts. In this case, totally taking posts out of context because you can't handle the critical tone and verbally assaulting the rational posters that are already so scarce on this website. Thanks for proving my point. | ||
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Kamais_Ookin
Canada4218 Posts
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RedMorning
Canada117 Posts
On February 03 2011 14:14 Hokay wrote: I enjoyed this and I am a protoss player ;D I look forward to the marauder and banelings! Im interesting in the blings too. 99% of the time I lose to Z, its because they 1a with blings. Not sure why people on a non-pro level call T OP in that matchup...clearly I'm missing something. | ||
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DarthMuppet
United States19 Posts
With Heart of the Swarm I would like to see more units and more diverse play, not a homogonization of races in favor of balance. To take it to an extreme "well there are only 3 units in the game, but they are perfectly balanced." | ||
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