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OP edit: lot's of good CONSTRUCTIVE feedback being posted in this thread, but also some singularly defensive or overly negative posts that may have missed the intent, so to clarify I do think they are the best casting duo we have in the SC2 scene, but nobody who's at the top of their field stays there without adapting, and Tastosis have shown over the last few GSL seasons that they are determined to adapt  I'm not saying my criticisms are necessarily valid but it would be incorrect to say that I want them to be anybody but themselves, the goal is to refine the formula that makes them so good!
So I'm probably not the only one but the main reason I pay for the GSL premium service is the Tastosis commentary, they make a very entertaining casting archon. But they are not without flaws that deserve critique because I'm selfish and want them to be even BETTER. So here's a brief list of things I think Artosis and Tasteless could work on, and I'm writing it now because season 3 will be our last for a while so it seems relevant to discuss...btw none of these criticisms are dealbreakers (obviously, <3 Tastosis), just honest feedback on aspects I think they could improve upon.
Tasteless:
- Panics/flusters when the flow of the cast is interrupted, whether it's a technical issue or the feed cutting away to the game screen, he tends to start acting awkwardly...this is one area where I think he could take some cues from Jason Lee or DJWheat, guys who seem adept at taking every lull or pause as an opportunity to generate new discussion. Or in the case of the feed cutting away, just start looking down at the screen and don't worry about where the camera is, we the viewers will be ok
- Too agreeable with Artosis at times, or follows Artosis' lead, which leads to Artosis getting away with imba comments or false game predictions. Their style would benefit if he pushed back on Artosis a little once in a while. A lot of the time Tasteless is just reiterating a comment made by Artosis, which most of the time is fine because Artosis makes a lot of good comments but Tasteless could strive for originality a little more.Addendum: This doesn't mean that I think they should engage in contrived bickering, but simply that I would like to see more divergence in the perspectives offered.
- Lack of preparation sometimes seems to be an issue, whether it's learning about the players (you can only blame the lighting so many times...) or just playing the game so build orders/playstyles can be quickly recognized. Granted his role is more play-by-play and Artosis is the analyst but that doesn't mean he wouldn't benefit from knowing the game/scene a little better.
Artosis:
- The imba commentary is a turn-off, even when it's subtle which it usually is.Addendum: I'll give an example since it's kind of a general complaint...at the beginning of season 3 Artosis mentioned the low number of Protoss and his response was that people need to calm down and figure out the game more before QQing imba, which I AGREE with as a Random player BUT I don't think this attitude is equivocated across all three races, because really this criticism is as concerned with what he says about zerg as what he doesn't say about zerg, like the ways or situations in which they are arguably overpowered, and the result is that we often only hear about the circumstances that act against zerg. Now he plays zerg so this bias is understandable and actually lends to some very insightful commentary into builds/metagame/player styles, so I don't think the ideal solution is necessarily for him to suddenly censor his instinctive commentary but rather if Tasteless were to get back into playing Random and stepped up his opinions a little more, to provide a more objective voice. Otherwise the analysis sometimes almost becomes "if he loses it's because it's a bad map for zerg".
- Making authoritative statements like "pretty much everyone agrees that..." are grating, particularly since that is almost never the case for what he goes on to describe. This is undesirable because some people tuning in don't know the game very well and will take his word as gospel when he says that X map is only bad for zerg etc.
- Doesn't qualify for the GSL more.
Added for both:
- Early/premature GG calling...it's not really a big deal because the truth is that in most Starcraft games there is a key pivot point that sets the course of the game towards a practically irreversible outcome, and as experienced players Tastosis are quick to spot these key moments and know with confidence that the game is effectively "over". However, I would like to see them scale these calls back because I think that unless a game is at a point where it would be decisively awarded to one of the players if the game crashed (which is not usually done unless a player has a huge advantage), the enthusiasm of the cast becomes sadly enervated. I'm not saying every game needs to end with them artificially amping their energy levels and pretending it's a lot closer than it is, but after watching the last few days worth of games with this criticism in mind I am noticing a lot of calling GG before it really needs to be, where they could continue to cast normally and highlight the plays that need to (and could) be made to swing the game around.
Once again Tastosis is awesome and I don't know if or how much they get paid but I hope it's a lot because they are a big reason for the GSL's success with foreigners. They are the best when they get really excited and start raising their voices, the enthusiasm is contagious =]
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Bring back super Daniel man!
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lol at Artosis: - Doesn't qualify for the GSL more
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I've always wondered, are they a dark or twilight archon?
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I would like to emphasize the last sentence. I think it is very important to the excitement of the match when the caster(s) are enthusiastic during the games. Do this more please!!!
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Just No. this isnt the NFL do you want them to hire professional commentators to make it flow better. Honestly just No
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On November 24 2010 10:52 Davidtothe wrote:
Bring back super Daniel man!
I think he still hates SC2 =/
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You want him to disagree for the sake of disagreeing? They were friends before they commentated together and it makes sense that good friends would generally agree even when they're not in front of an audience.
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Tasteless should commentate like he did at Day9's WCG back in ye ol' days. :D
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On November 24 2010 10:55 jcroisdale wrote:
Just No. this isnt the NFL do you want them to hire professional commentators to make it flow better. Honestly just No
No? I think they hired the perfect guys for the job, but right now they feel like a 1/1/1 archon, whereas I want the 3/3/3 hybrid archon.
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On November 24 2010 10:58 Gemini_19 wrote:
Tasteless should commentate like he did at Day9's WCG back in ye ol' days. :D
I'm fairly sure he will once he gets as experienced with SC2 as he was with BW. No worries here! n_n
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- Too agreeable with Artosis at times, or follows Artosis' lead, which leads to Artosis getting away with imba comments or false game predictions. Their style would benefit if he pushed back on Artosis a little once in a while. A lot of the time Tasteless is just reiterating a comment made by Artosis, which most of the time is fine because Artosis makes a lot of good comments but Tasteless could strive for originality a little more.
Last thing we want is an argument spawning out of these two.
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Tasteless has actually gotten MUCH better since season 2 imo. I feel like he is much more relaxed, he is doing a better but not perfect job of the camera, the one-liners are back, and his analysis is better. He must have played a lot of games in his downtime
Artosis is just pretty solid, i love it when he says stuff that is wrong :D
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On November 24 2010 10:55 jcroisdale wrote:
Just No. this isnt the NFL do you want them to hire professional commentators to make it flow better. Honestly just No
What the hell are you talking about? Haha. Dude's in his own world o.o.
I don't really feel comfortable asking them to change their style, I think we all know what to expect from Tastosis. Artosis's biased opinions stated as facts. Never in disagreement with each other in a slightly over-friendly way. Mistakes and slip ups. Expected and loved.
I would say the only thing I could ask is, could they please take 5 mins to read TL? We have some pretty good information gatherers here and the information about the players could be found with minimum effort on TL. Things like not knowing LittleBoy knocked out tester in the qualifiers and then being told wrongly by John that he knocked out Inca. I only lightly read TL and even I knew all of this.
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I feel like the gap is too big, Artosis knows a lot, a lot more than Tasteless.
Sometimes I hear things from Tasteless that doesn't really make sense, or are untrue.
I still love their casting though, wouldn't want anyone else.
Well, maybe the korean commentators, eventhough I don't understand them their excitement makes me excited.
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- Tasteless definitely doesn't need to take cues from Jason Lee or DJwheat about anything.
- Artosis seems to be more knowledgeable about strategy, and Tasteless is more the play-by-play guy anyway which is why Tasteless is likely to just take his word for it.
- They are actually as prepared as they can be. They play against some of these players on the ladder and get to talk to them. But if there's some 2200 point no name, they can't possibly know anything about him.
- Artosis actually doesn't talk about balance much. What are some examples?
To add, one of the things I love about Tastosis is that they do more of a conversation style cast. On the other hand, I've heard Day9+DJwheat/JP just take turns saying something which is not a good style at all (they did that at Blizzcon and MLG.)
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On November 24 2010 10:55 HollowLord wrote:I think he still hates SC2 =/
Dont think he hates SC2 but going by his mumbo jumbos from his pcbang there are a lot of burnt bridges between him gomtv and blizzard sadly. I liked him, good to see him doing well for himself but sad at his disillusion with SC2.
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Man I don't know... I don't really agree with very much of that. Take the Tasteless being too agreeable one. If anything it's Artosis being too agreeable. Tasteless is awesome and I really enjoy his casts but he isn't always the most knowledgable, and Artosis generally lets a lot of things he says which just aren't correct slide.
And as for Tasteless getting flustered if something goes wrong. Yeah, you're right he kind of does but it doesn't annoy me at all. He's usually really awkwardly funny in those situations.
But yeah... that's just my opinion as a tasteless fan
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On November 24 2010 10:55 jcroisdale wrote:
Just No. this isnt the NFL do you want them to hire professional commentators to make it flow better. Honestly just No
Uh, your point? Why is it so terrible to critique certain aspects of casting that, if rectified, would increase the overall level of enjoyment / education for all involved? If you're going to be a jackass, at least give decent support to what you say. Your NFL analogy makes no sense, either. We don't need Negative Nancies on TL if they're not going to justify their opinions.
On November 24 2010 10:56 Hurfdurf wrote:
You want him to disagree for the sake of disagreeing? They were friends before they commentated together and it makes sense that good friends would generally agree even when they're not in front of an audience.
There's a difference between disagreeing for the sake of doing so, and presenting an alternate perspective on something. The OP isn't suggesting that Tasteless contend random Artosis-isms for no reason, only that he present his own opinion on the matter if it happens to clash with what Artosis says. This is linked to the OP's wish that Tasteless prepare better for the matches; as Tasteless gets more comfortable at analyzing the matchups, he'll be able to discern for himself whether he thinks Artosis is on the money or not.
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On November 24 2010 10:56 Hurfdurf wrote:
You want him to disagree for the sake of disagreeing? They were friends before they commentated together and it makes sense that good friends would generally agree even when they're not in front of an audience.
For the sake of disagreeing? No I don't think I said that. I love their repertoire which can only come from a genuine friendship, but the agreeableness is so thick at times it can feel synthetic, I just think Tasteless takes the easy out sometimes in regurgitating what's already been suggested by Artosis.
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EPT
