|
On October 24 2010 13:59 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 13:51 Hikko wrote: I do miss some aspects of Brood War.
I don't miss the Dragoon AI I don't miss the sheer amount of units that were just useless/overly situational I don't miss Scarab AI I don't miss the UI that didn't register your actions when you went too fast I don't miss 12-unit control groups I don't miss the manual worker placement to minerals I don't miss memorizing intricate setups in order to make ling-proof wall offs in every position on every map I don't miss the crummy worker AI I don't miss iCCup smurfs I don't miss all the drop hackers I don't miss all the map hackers I don't miss crappy old Battle.Net
After seeing the GSL finals and now the Boxer vs FruitDealer showmatch, I know for a fact that Starcraft 2 can surpass every single epic game of Brood War, even on the current map pool. besides the bottom 4, you miss things that required skill ? aka shit thats automated and easy to do now(workers ai and easy to build walls) It's a pretty fine line between skill and a mechanical chore on a lot of them. More required skill doesn't inherently make it a better game.
|
On October 24 2010 14:14 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 14:08 Hikko wrote:On October 24 2010 13:59 arb wrote:On October 24 2010 13:51 Hikko wrote: I do miss some aspects of Brood War.
I don't miss the Dragoon AI I don't miss the sheer amount of units that were just useless/overly situational I don't miss Scarab AI I don't miss the UI that didn't register your actions when you went too fast I don't miss 12-unit control groups I don't miss the manual worker placement to minerals I don't miss memorizing intricate setups in order to make ling-proof wall offs in every position on every map I don't miss the crummy worker AI I don't miss iCCup smurfs I don't miss all the drop hackers I don't miss all the map hackers I don't miss crappy old Battle.Net
After seeing the GSL finals and now the Boxer vs FruitDealer showmatch, I know for a fact that Starcraft 2 can surpass every single epic game of Brood War, even on the current map pool. besides the bottom 4, you miss things that required skill ? aka shit thats automated and easy to do now(workers ai and easy to build walls) There's nothing fun about Dragoons being absolutely retarded. There's nothing exciting about having units that are never used (looking at you, Scout!) There's a bunch of luck in Scarab AI, not skill. There's no skill in gaming the UI because I'm playing too fast for the game to even read my commands. 12 unit control groups does make the game legitimately more difficult, but I think larger control groups are more fun to use. It is just wasteful clicking, though, most of the time. The non automated worker mining isn't fun or skill-based, it's just annoying and monotonous. Workers playing stupid and being completely unable to a-move or hold position is just stupid. Why should wall offs have to be memorized from a website instead of being able to just be easily figured out in-game? Arb, this guy who probably just discovered sc a year ago totally knows what he is talking about, he is even too fast for BW to respond! Either that or he hasn't played a single iccup game in his life and has no idea what lan latency is...but obviously it's the former
Lol sup Reso, guess who this is haha :D
|
I know how you feel. I miss BW a lot. SC2 is pretty fun to play, but I feel it is more "iffy" and hard to see and control everything the way you want to like in BW (in certain ways). Still though, I know that I have lost interest in BW since SC2 came out. :/
|
I've been followed the SC2 avidly recently but I haven't really quite felt the same magic that BW brought me. No rush of pride when I play as hard as I can, no flabbergasted awe when I see pro-gamers essentially perform the impossible. (No seriously, I still wonder... how the hell do they do that?)
Pretty much the only things I "don't miss" are dumbass Dragoons and scarabs getting bugged. But then again I'm a Protoss player. Oh yeah, I don't miss the "1a2a3a" jokes but I doubt anyone with a brain was serious about them.
And my god, SC2 would be so much more socially fulfilling with chat channels. I look at the TL thread for Funday Monday groups and think... this would be so much easier if they could just create a dedicated private chat channel for interested people to check out in-game.
Stopping right there before I bitch more.
|
On October 24 2010 13:05 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 12:59 konadora wrote:i agree, there's just something about SC2 that i can't reproduce from BW probably as something to do with the terrible maps, cheesy graphics, lack of interesting macro games, sluggish unit movements, and less diversity between races...all armies now pretty much 1a and thats it. Games are basically 2 blobs of units colliding lol. In BW each army would play so differently and there was a way better dynamic
Every time there is one of these threads there is always someone like this that has no clue what hes talking about. I can see how you think this at a low level of play though which is why a lot of people that have only played sc2 don't take the majority of BW opinions seriously.
|
u guys know that sc2 has been out for 2 months right?
there wasnt even a multiplayer scene in vanilla two months after it was released cause of how bad the game was at that stage
bw was a very limited game, it was really peaking out and getting stale during the past two years.
|
make a blog, a sentimental one. inside of ten minutes, even in the dead of night, someone will come and tell you you're wrong. you can't be wrong! it is a sentiment! rwarhdaslhgdkl
|
On October 24 2010 14:32 theinvisiblePLER wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 14:14 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:On October 24 2010 14:08 Hikko wrote:On October 24 2010 13:59 arb wrote:On October 24 2010 13:51 Hikko wrote: I do miss some aspects of Brood War.
I don't miss the Dragoon AI I don't miss the sheer amount of units that were just useless/overly situational I don't miss Scarab AI I don't miss the UI that didn't register your actions when you went too fast I don't miss 12-unit control groups I don't miss the manual worker placement to minerals I don't miss memorizing intricate setups in order to make ling-proof wall offs in every position on every map I don't miss the crummy worker AI I don't miss iCCup smurfs I don't miss all the drop hackers I don't miss all the map hackers I don't miss crappy old Battle.Net
After seeing the GSL finals and now the Boxer vs FruitDealer showmatch, I know for a fact that Starcraft 2 can surpass every single epic game of Brood War, even on the current map pool. besides the bottom 4, you miss things that required skill ? aka shit thats automated and easy to do now(workers ai and easy to build walls) There's nothing fun about Dragoons being absolutely retarded. There's nothing exciting about having units that are never used (looking at you, Scout!) There's a bunch of luck in Scarab AI, not skill. There's no skill in gaming the UI because I'm playing too fast for the game to even read my commands. 12 unit control groups does make the game legitimately more difficult, but I think larger control groups are more fun to use. It is just wasteful clicking, though, most of the time. The non automated worker mining isn't fun or skill-based, it's just annoying and monotonous. Workers playing stupid and being completely unable to a-move or hold position is just stupid. Why should wall offs have to be memorized from a website instead of being able to just be easily figured out in-game? Arb, this guy who probably just discovered sc a year ago totally knows what he is talking about, he is even too fast for BW to respond! Either that or he hasn't played a single iccup game in his life and has no idea what lan latency is...but obviously it's the former Lol sup Reso, guess who this is haha :D
loool you need to get back on msn, thought you fell off the face of the earth
|
I exclusively play SC2 now but I miss BW so much (I don't have BW installed on my comp). SC2 just doesn't have the "wow" moments that BW had. I still enjoy watching SC2, but in BW, I would watch and have a "wow! that was AMAZING" moment while in SC2, the only reaction I have is "nice solid play by Cool" or something like that. I am only able to appreciate the game but not really be excited by it. I think the reason this is is because their are no "wow" units in SC2. The best example is the reaver. Every time a scarab was shot, you were on the edge of your seat. Templar melting hydras was also awesome. And I will always miss PLAGUUUUU.
|
On October 24 2010 14:53 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 14:32 theinvisiblePLER wrote:On October 24 2010 14:14 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:On October 24 2010 14:08 Hikko wrote:On October 24 2010 13:59 arb wrote:On October 24 2010 13:51 Hikko wrote: I do miss some aspects of Brood War.
I don't miss the Dragoon AI I don't miss the sheer amount of units that were just useless/overly situational I don't miss Scarab AI I don't miss the UI that didn't register your actions when you went too fast I don't miss 12-unit control groups I don't miss the manual worker placement to minerals I don't miss memorizing intricate setups in order to make ling-proof wall offs in every position on every map I don't miss the crummy worker AI I don't miss iCCup smurfs I don't miss all the drop hackers I don't miss all the map hackers I don't miss crappy old Battle.Net
After seeing the GSL finals and now the Boxer vs FruitDealer showmatch, I know for a fact that Starcraft 2 can surpass every single epic game of Brood War, even on the current map pool. besides the bottom 4, you miss things that required skill ? aka shit thats automated and easy to do now(workers ai and easy to build walls) There's nothing fun about Dragoons being absolutely retarded. There's nothing exciting about having units that are never used (looking at you, Scout!) There's a bunch of luck in Scarab AI, not skill. There's no skill in gaming the UI because I'm playing too fast for the game to even read my commands. 12 unit control groups does make the game legitimately more difficult, but I think larger control groups are more fun to use. It is just wasteful clicking, though, most of the time. The non automated worker mining isn't fun or skill-based, it's just annoying and monotonous. Workers playing stupid and being completely unable to a-move or hold position is just stupid. Why should wall offs have to be memorized from a website instead of being able to just be easily figured out in-game? Arb, this guy who probably just discovered sc a year ago totally knows what he is talking about, he is even too fast for BW to respond! Either that or he hasn't played a single iccup game in his life and has no idea what lan latency is...but obviously it's the former Lol sup Reso, guess who this is haha :D loool you need to get back on msn, thought you fell off the face of the earth
Haha, I will, well tomorrow, gotta sleep right now :O
|
On October 24 2010 14:21 kaisr wrote: lol yeh. Was C- in BW, played sc2 for one week, tried to play one game of BW: ridiculous fail split, didn't build first probe, wondered why hotkeys were so far away, felt sad I couldn't MBS lost shortly after. so you got up to c- , played sc2 for a week then completely forgot how to play brood war. Don't start riding motorbikes or you might forget how to drive cars....
|
On October 24 2010 14:50 ShaperofDreams wrote: u guys know that sc2 has been out for 2 months right?
there wasnt even a multiplayer scene in vanilla two months after it was released cause of how bad the game was at that stage
bw was a very limited game, it was really peaking out and getting stale during the past two years.
This statement drives me crazy, BW was in no way getting stale and innovations were happening constantly. Ver wrote a really nice post about that a little while back, but I don't have it handy; I'm not sure why so many people want to say BW is stale or that everything is figured out, because it isn't.
And yeah, I miss the days of constant high level BW streams and ICCUP with more than 2k people at any time. At least its still possible to find games pretty easy even now.
One of these days I hope people will learn to put away the SC2 v BW debate, some of the things we BW players love about BW and think makes it a high skill and exciting game are exactly what many sc2 players see as cumbersome and useless. There are two opinions and neither side is going to persuade the other on this, not sure why everything has to get so divisive and tense whenever either game is mentioned or discussed.
|
United States11390 Posts
On October 24 2010 15:41 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 14:50 ShaperofDreams wrote: u guys know that sc2 has been out for 2 months right?
there wasnt even a multiplayer scene in vanilla two months after it was released cause of how bad the game was at that stage
bw was a very limited game, it was really peaking out and getting stale during the past two years. This statement drives me crazy, BW was in no way getting stale and innovations were happening constantly. Ver wrote a really nice post about that a little while back, but I don't have it handy; I'm not sure why so many people want to say BW is stale or that everything is figured out, because it isn't. Quote is here.
On September 28 2010 05:46 Ver wrote:SC mapped out? Few innovators/innovations? Are we watching the same games here? The late 2009/2010 season has been one of the most innovative years ever! There's a large amount of exploring left in many of these systems. For Terran alone (listing general systems, not the absurd amount of variations): TvZ- Safe 14cc on 2 player maps a dozen different variations of bio -> mech and vice versa with a lot more room for further exploration (this is huge!) Flexible Valkyrie first openings that can transition into many different possibilities A totally new approach vs 2 hatch muta with aggressive marine pushes (changes a lot) 7 Rax (and overlord snipes from it) 4 rax -> triple port wraith 2 rax acad allins 3rd denial vs 3 hatch muta (very unexplored and complex) 2 base allin vs crazy zerg (3 hatch muta to ultra) Revolutionary lategame defense based off of aggressive vessel raids, covering infantry, and massed tanks (probably the biggest change in years along with bio-mech transitions) 12pool Lair with a very different and expansive early/midgame Improvements on overall mech play (several new midgame options) Heavy and consistent Vulture/Valkyrie!? (totally unexplored) TvP- Many different 3 base timings Many variations in the 2 fact after cc system both from siege expand and from FD 12 Nexus variations and emphasis 1 fact mine double expand in response to 12 Nexus New midgame Carrier transition ideas both before and after arbiters Rax Expand!! (a huge system with tons more exploration but right now there are many variations already) + Show Spoiler [Some specific games] +As long as the pro scene stays alive in courts BW is fine. SC2 is just new (and getting many temporary tournies/players because of this) and people need a break from BW. Give half a year/year and things should be looking better.
|
10387 Posts
On October 24 2010 14:08 Hikko wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 13:59 arb wrote:On October 24 2010 13:51 Hikko wrote: I do miss some aspects of Brood War.
I don't miss the Dragoon AI I don't miss the sheer amount of units that were just useless/overly situational I don't miss Scarab AI I don't miss the UI that didn't register your actions when you went too fast I don't miss 12-unit control groups I don't miss the manual worker placement to minerals I don't miss memorizing intricate setups in order to make ling-proof wall offs in every position on every map I don't miss the crummy worker AI I don't miss iCCup smurfs I don't miss all the drop hackers I don't miss all the map hackers I don't miss crappy old Battle.Net
After seeing the GSL finals and now the Boxer vs FruitDealer showmatch, I know for a fact that Starcraft 2 can surpass every single epic game of Brood War, even on the current map pool. besides the bottom 4, you miss things that required skill ? aka shit thats automated and easy to do now(workers ai and easy to build walls) There's nothing fun about Dragoons being absolutely retarded. There's nothing exciting about having units that are never used (looking at you, Scout!) There's a bunch of luck in Scarab AI, not skill. There's no skill in gaming the UI because I'm playing too fast for the game to even read my commands. 12 unit control groups does make the game legitimately more difficult, but I think larger control groups are more fun to use. It is just wasteful clicking, though, most of the time. The non automated worker mining isn't fun or skill-based, it's just annoying and monotonous. Workers playing stupid and being completely unable to a-move or hold position is just stupid. Why should wall offs have to be memorized from a website instead of being able to just be easily figured out in-game? I had fun playing Brood War, and I still love watching pro matches--I'm watching Fox vs KT right now--but I enjoy playing Starcraft 2 more for a large number of reasons, the ones that I have stated are just a part of it. Jesus people overeexaggerate Dragoon AI, I handle them fine.
Scout is exciting when its used. It's also designed as an anti-capital ship unit, so it'll destroy Carriers/BCs w/ less/equal cost, its just you don't see those units vP. SC2 has more units that are pretty useless/overly situational
You just suck at using Reavers
Rofl if Effort can play SC1 efficiently w/ 400 APM, I think its more of your fault than the game's.
12 unit control group stops the dumb 1 big ball group from happening, and is far more intuitive in forming concaves, lines and flanks
Non-automated worker mining isn't hard wow lol, such a stupid thing to complain about
You suck at using workers, learn to use them -_-
Why should everything in SC2 make a perfect wall? It removes a layer of subtlety and complexity to the game not being able to create walls that allow smaller units to pass through.
|
Miss BW so much... It may have made blunders like the match-fixing or the IP controversy or the 'a' incidents.... but for me BW deserves one more chance. and as mentioned a lot of times before, it has a lot of the 'OMGWTF' Pimpy!! possible moments even after 11 years.
I guess sometimes i still kinda wished SC2 was BW's prettier remake... @___@ (minus MBS, dumb unit AI, and long ass TvTs and a slightly larger unit control groups)
|
Actually SC2 having come out has worked out great for me. Tried it, wasn't my thing, didn't bother crying about how it's not like BW and I went back into my FPS roots.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, there are other games outside of BW and SC2, yeah I know, when I found out it blew me away too.
|
10387 Posts
On October 24 2010 16:02 KrAzYfoOL wrote: Actually SC2 having come out has worked out great for me. Tried it, wasn't my thing, didn't bother crying about how it's not like BW and I went back into my FPS roots.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, there are other games outside of BW and SC2, yeah I know, when I found out it blew me away too. forgot to mention that those other games could possibly not be other people's cup of tea too, yea that also blew me away
|
I miss the underground feel of BW, how if you ever met anyone who played BW or watched korean BW you felt like you had found a long lost friend. Now everyone knows about SC2, and a large portion of them make me want to not tell people that I play
|
On October 24 2010 16:12 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 16:02 KrAzYfoOL wrote: Actually SC2 having come out has worked out great for me. Tried it, wasn't my thing, didn't bother crying about how it's not like BW and I went back into my FPS roots.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, there are other games outside of BW and SC2, yeah I know, when I found out it blew me away too. forgot to mention that those other games could possibly not be other people's cup of tea too, yea that also blew me away
Nor can they be mine, seeing as how fucking many they are and how many more games I've yet to try? My bets on these whingers not branching out and actually trying other games.
|
On October 24 2010 13:51 Hikko wrote: I don't miss the UI that didn't register your actions when you went too fast
When have you gone "too fast" for the UI? I have never seen this happen, and it doesn't happen to pros playing at 300apm. I'm assuming you weren't going much faster than that.
|
|
|
|