EPTI dream that one day more and more people are going to come back to BW, but thats not going to happen. I wasn't even at C- level after SC2 came out, and I still loved the game.
No matter how much I wish, BW will never be as active as it was.
I wish BW would come back.
| Blogs > theinvisiblePLER |
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theinvisiblePLER
United States110 Posts
I dream that one day more and more people are going to come back to BW, but thats not going to happen. I wasn't even at C- level after SC2 came out, and I still loved the game. No matter how much I wish, BW will never be as active as it was. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66116 Posts
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Loser777
1931 Posts
On October 24 2010 12:59 konadora wrote: i agree, there's just something about SC2 that i can't reproduce from BW Do you mean that there's something about BW that you can't reproduce in SC2? | ||
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Xyloid
United States33 Posts
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On October 24 2010 12:59 konadora wrote: i agree, there's just something about SC2 that i can't reproduce from BW I thought this as well until I saw Fruit Dealer play. He's actually changed my mind quite a bit about high level SC2. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On October 24 2010 12:59 konadora wrote: i agree, there's just something about SC2 that i can't reproduce from BW probably as something to do with the terrible maps, cheesy graphics, lack of interesting macro games, sluggish unit movements, and less diversity between races...all armies now pretty much 1a and thats it. Games are basically 2 blobs of units colliding lol. In BW each army would play so differently and there was a way better dynamic | ||
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qzmpwxno
Papua New Guinea152 Posts
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crayhasissues
United States682 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:05 SubtleArt wrote: probably as something to do with the terrible maps, cheesy graphics, lack of interesting macro games, sluggish unit movements, and less diversity between races...all armies now pretty much 1a and thats it. Games are basically 2 blobs of units colliding lol. In BW each army would play so differently and there was a way better dynamic We must not be playing the same game. Or do you even play SC2? BW was great, but whining about how you wish things were like the old days won't make it come back. | ||
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ReketSomething
United States6012 Posts
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:23 Scruffy wrote: We must not be playing the same game. Or do you even play SC2? BW was great, but whining about how you wish things were like the old days won't make it come back. No we're playing the same game, Broodwar was superior in every way | ||
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:23 Scruffy wrote: We must not be playing the same game. Or do you even play SC2? BW was great, but whining about how you wish things were like the old days won't make it come back. I think the question is, did you ever watch professional BW? | ||
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Hikko
United States1126 Posts
I don't miss the Dragoon AI I don't miss the sheer amount of units that were just useless/overly situational I don't miss Scarab AI I don't miss the UI that didn't register your actions when you went too fast I don't miss 12-unit control groups I don't miss the manual worker placement to minerals I don't miss memorizing intricate setups in order to make ling-proof wall offs in every position on every map I don't miss the crummy worker AI I don't miss iCCup smurfs I don't miss all the drop hackers I don't miss all the map hackers I don't miss crappy old Battle.Net After seeing the GSL finals and now the Boxer vs FruitDealer showmatch, I know for a fact that Starcraft 2 can surpass every single epic game of Brood War, even on the current map pool. | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:51 Hikko wrote: I do miss some aspects of Brood War. I don't miss the Dragoon AI I don't miss the sheer amount of units that were just useless/overly situational I don't miss Scarab AI I don't miss the UI that didn't register your actions when you went too fast I don't miss 12-unit control groups I don't miss the manual worker placement to minerals I don't miss memorizing intricate setups in order to make ling-proof wall offs in every position on every map I don't miss the crummy worker AI I don't miss iCCup smurfs I don't miss all the drop hackers I don't miss all the map hackers I don't miss crappy old Battle.Net After seeing the GSL finals and now the Boxer vs FruitDealer showmatch, I know for a fact that Starcraft 2 can surpass every single epic game of Brood War, even on the current map pool. besides the bottom 4, you miss things that required skill ? aka shit thats automated and easy to do now(workers ai and easy to build walls) | ||
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2WeaK
Canada550 Posts
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Hikko
United States1126 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:59 arb wrote: besides the bottom 4, you miss things that required skill ? aka shit thats automated and easy to do now(workers ai and easy to build walls) There's nothing fun about Dragoons being absolutely retarded. There's nothing exciting about having units that are never used (looking at you, Scout!) There's a bunch of luck in Scarab AI, not skill. There's no skill in gaming the UI because I'm playing too fast for the game to even read my commands. 12 unit control groups does make the game legitimately more difficult, but I think larger control groups are more fun to use. It is just wasteful clicking, though, most of the time. The non automated worker mining isn't fun or skill-based, it's just annoying and monotonous. Workers playing stupid and being completely unable to a-move or hold position is just stupid. Why should wall offs have to be memorized from a website instead of being able to just be easily figured out in-game? I had fun playing Brood War, and I still love watching pro matches--I'm watching Fox vs KT right now--but I enjoy playing Starcraft 2 more for a large number of reasons, the ones that I have stated are just a part of it. | ||
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Foreplay
United States1154 Posts
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fAnTaCy
United States893 Posts
On October 24 2010 14:08 Hikko wrote: There's nothing fun about Dragoons being absolutely retarded. There's nothing exciting about having units that are never used (looking at you, Scout!) There's a bunch of luck in Scarab AI, not skill. There's no skill in gaming the UI because I'm playing too fast for the game to even read my commands. 12 unit control groups does make the game legitimately more difficult, but I think larger control groups are more fun to use. It is just wasteful clicking, though, most of the time. The non automated worker mining isn't fun or skill-based, it's just annoying and monotonous. Workers playing stupid and being completely unable to a-move or hold position is just stupid. Why should wall offs have to be memorized from a website instead of being able to just be easily figured out in-game? Scouts were used, never seriously unless you were using the Stove which was rarely used regardless, good Dragoon micro was incredible to watch, having to make your workers mine AND do everything else on the map took skill and was in fact fun and made for some lol's when someone had like 6 idle workers, and you should have wall offs memorized because it takes some amount of skill to do that. In case you were wondering, BW is a game of skill and some luck, SC2 isn't that much off skill as it was in BW, just saying. | ||
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Zapdos_Smithh
Canada2620 Posts
On October 24 2010 14:08 Hikko wrote: There's nothing fun about Dragoons being absolutely retarded. There's nothing exciting about having units that are never used (looking at you, Scout!) There's a bunch of luck in Scarab AI, not skill. There's no skill in gaming the UI because I'm playing too fast for the game to even read my commands. 12 unit control groups does make the game legitimately more difficult, but I think larger control groups are more fun to use. It is just wasteful clicking, though, most of the time. The non automated worker mining isn't fun or skill-based, it's just annoying and monotonous. Workers playing stupid and being completely unable to a-move or hold position is just stupid. Why should wall offs have to be memorized from a website instead of being able to just be easily figured out in-game? Arb, this guy who probably just discovered sc a year ago totally knows what he is talking about, he is even too fast for BW to respond! Either that or he hasn't played a single iccup game in his life and has no idea what lan latency is...but obviously it's the former  | ||
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Hikko
United States1126 Posts
On October 24 2010 14:14 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Arb, this guy who probably just discovered sc a year ago totally knows what he is talking about, he is even too fast for BW to respond! Either that or he hasn't played a single iccup game in his life and has no idea what lan latency is...but obviously it's the former I'll leave this blog thread, but screw off. I got Starcraft before Brood War was released. | ||
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kaisr
Canada715 Posts
On October 24 2010 14:11 Foreplay wrote: i love bw and do think it's a better game. This blog made me nostalgic so i went and played an iccup game and you know what? Fuck brood war. Fuck brood war right in the ear that game is hard. Jesus. lol yeh. Was C- in BW, played sc2 for one week, tried to play one game of BW: ridiculous fail split, didn't build first probe, wondered why hotkeys were so far away, felt sad I couldn't MBS lost shortly after. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:59 arb wrote: besides the bottom 4, you miss things that required skill ? aka shit thats automated and easy to do now(workers ai and easy to build walls) It's a pretty fine line between skill and a mechanical chore on a lot of them. More required skill doesn't inherently make it a better game. | ||
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theinvisiblePLER
United States110 Posts
On October 24 2010 14:14 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Arb, this guy who probably just discovered sc a year ago totally knows what he is talking about, he is even too fast for BW to respond! Either that or he hasn't played a single iccup game in his life and has no idea what lan latency is...but obviously it's the former Lol sup Reso, guess who this is haha :D | ||
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deathgod6
United States5064 Posts
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
Pretty much the only things I "don't miss" are dumbass Dragoons and scarabs getting bugged. But then again I'm a Protoss player. Oh yeah, I don't miss the "1a2a3a" jokes but I doubt anyone with a brain was serious about them. And my god, SC2 would be so much more socially fulfilling with chat channels. I look at the TL thread for Funday Monday groups and think... this would be so much easier if they could just create a dedicated private chat channel for interested people to check out in-game. Stopping right there before I bitch more. | ||
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Medzo
United States627 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:05 SubtleArt wrote: probably as something to do with the terrible maps, cheesy graphics, lack of interesting macro games, sluggish unit movements, and less diversity between races...all armies now pretty much 1a and thats it. Games are basically 2 blobs of units colliding lol. In BW each army would play so differently and there was a way better dynamic Every time there is one of these threads there is always someone like this that has no clue what hes talking about. I can see how you think this at a low level of play though which is why a lot of people that have only played sc2 don't take the majority of BW opinions seriously. | ||
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
there wasnt even a multiplayer scene in vanilla two months after it was released cause of how bad the game was at that stage bw was a very limited game, it was really peaking out and getting stale during the past two years. | ||
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butter
United States785 Posts
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Zapdos_Smithh
Canada2620 Posts
On October 24 2010 14:32 theinvisiblePLER wrote: Lol sup Reso, guess who this is haha :D loool you need to get back on msn, thought you fell off the face of the earth | ||
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Enervate
United States1769 Posts
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theinvisiblePLER
United States110 Posts
On October 24 2010 14:53 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: loool you need to get back on msn, thought you fell off the face of the earth Haha, I will, well tomorrow, gotta sleep right now :O | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4316 Posts
On October 24 2010 14:21 kaisr wrote: lol yeh. Was C- in BW, played sc2 for one week, tried to play one game of BW: ridiculous fail split, didn't build first probe, wondered why hotkeys were so far away, felt sad I couldn't MBS lost shortly after. so you got up to c- , played sc2 for a week then completely forgot how to play brood war. Don't start riding motorbikes or you might forget how to drive cars.... | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 24 2010 14:50 ShaperofDreams wrote: u guys know that sc2 has been out for 2 months right? there wasnt even a multiplayer scene in vanilla two months after it was released cause of how bad the game was at that stage bw was a very limited game, it was really peaking out and getting stale during the past two years. This statement drives me crazy, BW was in no way getting stale and innovations were happening constantly. Ver wrote a really nice post about that a little while back, but I don't have it handy; I'm not sure why so many people want to say BW is stale or that everything is figured out, because it isn't. And yeah, I miss the days of constant high level BW streams and ICCUP with more than 2k people at any time. At least its still possible to find games pretty easy even now. One of these days I hope people will learn to put away the SC2 v BW debate, some of the things we BW players love about BW and think makes it a high skill and exciting game are exactly what many sc2 players see as cumbersome and useless. There are two opinions and neither side is going to persuade the other on this, not sure why everything has to get so divisive and tense whenever either game is mentioned or discussed. | ||
Harem
United States11390 Posts
On October 24 2010 15:41 L_Master wrote: This statement drives me crazy, BW was in no way getting stale and innovations were happening constantly. Ver wrote a really nice post about that a little while back, but I don't have it handy; I'm not sure why so many people want to say BW is stale or that everything is figured out, because it isn't. Quote is here. On September 28 2010 05:46 Ver wrote: SC mapped out? Few innovators/innovations? Are we watching the same games here? The late 2009/2010 season has been one of the most innovative years ever! There's a large amount of exploring left in many of these systems. For Terran alone (listing general systems, not the absurd amount of variations): TvZ- Safe 14cc on 2 player maps a dozen different variations of bio -> mech and vice versa with a lot more room for further exploration (this is huge!) Flexible Valkyrie first openings that can transition into many different possibilities A totally new approach vs 2 hatch muta with aggressive marine pushes (changes a lot) 7 Rax (and overlord snipes from it) 4 rax -> triple port wraith 2 rax acad allins 3rd denial vs 3 hatch muta (very unexplored and complex) 2 base allin vs crazy zerg (3 hatch muta to ultra) Revolutionary lategame defense based off of aggressive vessel raids, covering infantry, and massed tanks (probably the biggest change in years along with bio-mech transitions) 12pool Lair with a very different and expansive early/midgame Improvements on overall mech play (several new midgame options) Heavy and consistent Vulture/Valkyrie!? (totally unexplored) TvP- Many different 3 base timings Many variations in the 2 fact after cc system both from siege expand and from FD 12 Nexus variations and emphasis 1 fact mine double expand in response to 12 Nexus New midgame Carrier transition ideas both before and after arbiters Rax Expand!! (a huge system with tons more exploration but right now there are many variations already) + Show Spoiler [Some specific games] + Just grabbed a small selection off the top of my head. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/34967_Calm_vs_Flash http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/36107_Flash_vs_Stork http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/36105_Flash_vs_JangBi http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/35135_Flash_vs_Movie http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/35136_Flash_vs_Movie http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/36573_Flash_vs_Kal http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/36586_Flash_vs_Kal http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/36330_Flash_vs_Kal http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/44891_Jaedong_vs_Light http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/41931_Flash_vs_Jaedong http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/44452_Flash_vs_ZerO http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/44557_EffOrt_vs_Light/vod http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/44966_Flash_vs_Jaedong http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/45289_Flash_vs_free http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/44461_Fantasy_vs_hero http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/44967_Flash_vs_Jaedong http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/44892_Jaedong_vs_Light http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/32785_Fantasy_vs_HoeJJa http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/41930_Flash_vs_Jaedong http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/36498_Action_vs_Midas (midas jaedong odd eye) (hero midas) http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/36902_HoGiL_vs_Midas http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/34773_Flash_vs_type-b http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/30600_Flash_vs_hero http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/34843_Flash_vs_Jaedong As long as the pro scene stays alive in courts BW is fine. SC2 is just new (and getting many temporary tournies/players because of this) and people need a break from BW. Give half a year/year and things should be looking better. | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On October 24 2010 14:08 Hikko wrote: There's nothing fun about Dragoons being absolutely retarded. There's nothing exciting about having units that are never used (looking at you, Scout!) There's a bunch of luck in Scarab AI, not skill. There's no skill in gaming the UI because I'm playing too fast for the game to even read my commands. 12 unit control groups does make the game legitimately more difficult, but I think larger control groups are more fun to use. It is just wasteful clicking, though, most of the time. The non automated worker mining isn't fun or skill-based, it's just annoying and monotonous. Workers playing stupid and being completely unable to a-move or hold position is just stupid. Why should wall offs have to be memorized from a website instead of being able to just be easily figured out in-game? I had fun playing Brood War, and I still love watching pro matches--I'm watching Fox vs KT right now--but I enjoy playing Starcraft 2 more for a large number of reasons, the ones that I have stated are just a part of it. Jesus people overeexaggerate Dragoon AI, I handle them fine. Scout is exciting when its used. It's also designed as an anti-capital ship unit, so it'll destroy Carriers/BCs w/ less/equal cost, its just you don't see those units vP. SC2 has more units that are pretty useless/overly situational You just suck at using Reavers Rofl if Effort can play SC1 efficiently w/ 400 APM, I think its more of your fault than the game's. 12 unit control group stops the dumb 1 big ball group from happening, and is far more intuitive in forming concaves, lines and flanks Non-automated worker mining isn't hard wow lol, such a stupid thing to complain about You suck at using workers, learn to use them -_- Why should everything in SC2 make a perfect wall? It removes a layer of subtlety and complexity to the game not being able to create walls that allow smaller units to pass through. | ||
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chongu
Malaysia2580 Posts
I guess sometimes i still kinda wished SC2 was BW's prettier remake... @___@ (minus MBS, dumb unit AI, and long ass TvTs and a slightly larger unit control groups) | ||
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KrAzYfoOL
Australia3037 Posts
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, there are other games outside of BW and SC2, yeah I know, when I found out it blew me away too. | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On October 24 2010 16:02 KrAzYfoOL wrote: Actually SC2 having come out has worked out great for me. Tried it, wasn't my thing, didn't bother crying about how it's not like BW and I went back into my FPS roots. Oh yeah, forgot to mention, there are other games outside of BW and SC2, yeah I know, when I found out it blew me away too. forgot to mention that those other games could possibly not be other people's cup of tea too, yea that also blew me away | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
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KrAzYfoOL
Australia3037 Posts
On October 24 2010 16:12 ArvickHero wrote: forgot to mention that those other games could possibly not be other people's cup of tea too, yea that also blew me away Nor can they be mine, seeing as how fucking many they are and how many more games I've yet to try? My bets on these whingers not branching out and actually trying other games. | ||
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0mgVitaminE
United States1278 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:51 Hikko wrote: I don't miss the UI that didn't register your actions when you went too fast When have you gone "too fast" for the UI? I have never seen this happen, and it doesn't happen to pros playing at 300apm. I'm assuming you weren't going much faster than that. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On October 24 2010 15:16 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: so you got up to c- , played sc2 for a week then completely forgot how to play brood war. Don't start riding motorbikes or you might forget how to drive cars.... You are retarded rofl do you know how weird it is to switch back like that? The hotkeys are all different and it fucks with your muscle memory a lot. I am sure he just meant the first game back. You get a lot back after around 2 games. I still think BW PvZ is the most fun I have ever had. I played Zerg as a main and protoss on SC2 one of the reasons is so I don't fuck with my hotkeys for each game. | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On October 24 2010 16:22 KrAzYfoOL wrote: Nor can they be mine, seeing as how fucking many they are and how many more games I've yet to try? My bets on these whingers not branching out and actually trying other games. What's the point of this? Why do you assume people who play BW/SC2 don't play other games. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:51 Hikko wrote: I do miss some aspects of Brood War. I don't miss the Dragoon AI I don't miss the sheer amount of units that were just useless/overly situational I don't miss Scarab AI I don't miss the UI that didn't register your actions when you went too fast I don't miss 12-unit control groups I don't miss the manual worker placement to minerals I don't miss memorizing intricate setups in order to make ling-proof wall offs in every position on every map I don't miss the crummy worker AI I don't miss iCCup smurfs I don't miss all the drop hackers I don't miss all the map hackers I don't miss crappy old Battle.Net After seeing the GSL finals and now the Boxer vs FruitDealer showmatch, I know for a fact that Starcraft 2 can surpass every single epic game of Brood War, even on the current map pool. God i think you were pretty bad amirite? Sairs in PvT is awesome and Scouts in PvZ are awesome wtf are you talking about Theres a way you can use scarabs by not dropping them behind minerals and such. Man, 12unit control groups makes it more fun cause you can do more than just 1a lol Actually, the fact that you can wall off with 3 pylons piss me off Worker AI were so awesome and now crappy old battle.net? wtf man what makes SC2's bnet better? On October 24 2010 16:27 0mgVitaminE wrote: When have you gone "too fast" for the UI? I have never seen this happen, and it doesn't happen to pros playing at 300apm. I'm assuming you weren't going much faster than that. It happens to me for some reason and i am not fast at all. probably some keyboard malfunction or my fingers accidentally press 2 when im hotkeying 1 | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On October 24 2010 16:31 Kenpachi wrote: It happens to me for some reason and i am not fast at all. probably some keyboard malfunction or my fingers accidentally press 2 when im hotkeying 1 To explain this, it's because you probably have your mouse key still clicked down when you press a keyboard button or vice versa, so it doesn't register the action. So you have to be extremely precise and quick with your keystrokes/clicks, and playing at 350+ APM is a true testament to speed and dexterity. Example: 1a2a3a4a. if you have your mouse click still pressed when you press 2, your control group won't change to 2. | ||
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KrAzYfoOL
Australia3037 Posts
On October 24 2010 16:31 ArvickHero wrote: What's the point of this? Why do you assume people who play BW/SC2 don't play other games. Going off your other posts made in this thread. I think you're far too stupid to understand my point. It was worth a shot though. | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:51 Hikko wrote: haha you're basically saying "i don't miss things that required skills and practice". dragoon AI could be beaten. SC2 also has some very situational units. scarab AI was stupid, yeah. UI registered all of my actions, don't know what you're talking about. seriously if you're working fast enough to beat the UI, then you're working faster than progamers who don't have problems with it and i highly doubt that. once again, skill for the last 3.I don't miss the Dragoon AI I don't miss the sheer amount of units that were just useless/overly situational I don't miss Scarab AI I don't miss the UI that didn't register your actions when you went too fast I don't miss 12-unit control groups I don't miss the manual worker placement to minerals I don't miss memorizing intricate setups in order to make ling-proof wall offs in every position on every map On October 24 2010 13:51 Hikko wrote: yeah... whatever. seriously outside of the beginning of each season only C- egoists smurfed or /reset and they were easily beatable. iccup takes care of the rest. don't know what you mean by "crummy worker AI".I don't miss the crummy worker AI I don't miss iCCup smurfs I don't miss all the drop hackers I don't miss all the map hackers I don't miss crappy old Battle.Net let's keep making up more ridiculous reasons why BW sucked so hard. On October 24 2010 16:31 Kenpachi wrote: iirc SC doesn't register 2 keys pressed together. so instead of doing either control group 1 or control group 2 it just does neither. but that just required a bit of skill to overcome.It happens to me for some reason and i am not fast at all. probably some keyboard malfunction or my fingers accidentally press 2 when im hotkeying 1 | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
I've met two of my best IRL friends on bnet chat channels (hi firlou if you read this <3) We used to rape some teams we hated in 3v3/2v2, then smurf, meet in our "secret" channel, and rape them again, and take new smurf accounts, hahaha, we really had so much fun. SC2 is just about laddering like a robot, you'll say it's the same on iccup, except that the game is boring. | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On October 24 2010 12:59 konadora wrote: i agree, there's just something about SC2 that i can't reproduce from BW ): Seriously. | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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Garrl
Scotland1971 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:51 Hikko wrote: I do miss some aspects of Brood War. I don't miss the Dragoon AI I don't miss the sheer amount of units that were just useless/overly situational I don't miss Scarab AI I don't miss the UI that didn't register your actions when you went too fast I don't miss 12-unit control groups I don't miss the manual worker placement to minerals I don't miss memorizing intricate setups in order to make ling-proof wall offs in every position on every map I don't miss the crummy worker AI I don't miss iCCup smurfs I don't miss all the drop hackers I don't miss all the map hackers I don't miss crappy old Battle.Net After seeing the GSL finals and now the Boxer vs FruitDealer showmatch, I know for a fact that Starcraft 2 can surpass every single epic game of Brood War, even on the current map pool. -Dragoon AI WASN'T. THAT. BAD, seriously, I mainrace as zerg and I can use dragoons well. -What. I can't think of a single unit that is "overly situational" - every unit can carry through to from early game to lategame (you might say, I don't know, Reavers were used as harrass units, but with good enough positioning, you can easily use them to defend or attack a position. -Scarab AI being bad was null if you had good enough positioning (note not "micro" - you can position your units with a shuttle while 1a2a3aing your goons/zeals). -Still happens in SC2. -Counter point to SC2: blob vs blob combat. I don't miss crappy old Battle.Net Chat channels. I don't miss all the drop hackers I don't miss all the map hackers Iccup antihack. Blizzard's anti hack code is still AWFUL - warping in immortals because their netcode is shitty? That's, uh, pretty bad, and reeks of being rushed to ship. Joined TL.net Saturday, 1st of May 2010 | ||
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Ecrilon
501 Posts
The fact that Brood War had 12 unit control groups is unnecessarily limiting. It is better to have separate control groups for different units and groups. You can still do that in SC2. It's just that newer players, who don't necessarily have the training to 1a2a3a can just 1a instead. If you 1a2a3a, perhaps you can beat them as you will have more efficient micro. That's the skill factor. The mechanical training for 1a2a3a is again unintuitive, and something you can learn to get better, but not something you should be forced to do. Again, perhaps imagine a system where you could use a lot more keys as control groups but you could only have 2 units per control group. 1a2a3a4aQaWaEaRa is not a very interesting use of your time. It could be useful situationally, and if you were sufficiently skilled, you would recognize those situations and beat players who were unable to do the same. However, it is hardly interesting to force you to do it all the time. Again, please recognize that an easier game is not automatically inferior. BNet 2 is inferior to the original. I dunno. Give it time I guess. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4316 Posts
On October 24 2010 16:28 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: You are retarded rofl do you know how weird it is to switch back like that? The hotkeys are all different and it fucks with your muscle memory a lot. . oh ok just use the old style hotkeys in sc2 then?? B P for build pylon makes a heck of a lot more sense than B E (where in pylon is an E?) | ||
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:59 arb wrote: besides the bottom 4, you miss things that required skill ? aka shit thats automated and easy to do now(workers ai and easy to build walls) Micro dat scarab. Doing monotonous tasks fast = good games eh? | ||
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rabidch
United States20288 Posts
i dont like how tightly unit groups can be made... miss reavers too u_u oh well | ||
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Severedevil
United States4831 Posts
On October 24 2010 20:10 Ecrilon wrote: There is really a distinction between skill and pure mechanical training. Macro-cycles + sending workers to mine stress not only the player's timing but also their multitasking and ability to prioritize actions. You could argue likewise for the repeal of the "Supply" mechanic, because building pylons/depots/overlords on time is just pure mechanical training. No decent player should become supply blocked, or leave a worker idling, or miss their production timing if that's all they have to do... the challenge is to maintain your macro while controlling your military. It's a challenge of attention prioritization, which is fundamental to RTS. I've played enough SC2 (~400 games) to think MBS is lame as hell. (Ditto for shared unit control in team games. Unlimited group select is fine; the problem is that units clump and respond slowly, not that control groups are big.) But the worst by far is the damn Macro AI that tracks which structure will be free first to build the next unit FOR YOU. Why not just have an "Autocast Marine" button while you're at it... If you don't know how to use Reavers, turn in your damn corsair icon. Scarabs perform badly when obstructed --> manually target your Reavers (also to optimize the splash damage) and keep your firing lanes clear. If Scarabs could skip over obstacles and always hit their target, they'd have to deal less damage, and Reavers would be another boring SC2 unit with little room for challenging to micro to enhance its function. (The Colossus.) | ||
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dreamend
64 Posts
Fact: in BW I can micro my mutalisks like a 95% version of Jaedong, but when I'm done I have 3000 minerals. You don't think of this when watching the game but it's a huge part of why these moves are impressive. That's my response to people bitching about BW's tedious UI system, makes me miss BW.. plus in SC2 you can't really mutalisk micro anyways | ||
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Garrl
Scotland1971 Posts
On October 24 2010 21:04 rabidch wrote: BW nostalgia i dont like how tightly unit groups can be made... miss reavers too u_u oh well Why would you miss it when it's still active and being played at a pro level and on iccup? | ||
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konadora
Singapore66116 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:02 Loser777 wrote: Do you mean that there's something about BW that you can't reproduce in SC2? lol yes that's what i meant, got kinda confused there | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
Or when mutas/scourge caught sci vessels off guard: Epic death sound. Same kind of scenario in SC2 is like: You barely see whats going on beacuse the units clump like crazy and flying units block the vision of ground units. So its hard to get excited about something you can barely see with your own eyes. Psi storm just gently pokes at whatever army it lands on, its the 2nd or 3rd attempt that actually kills something.. :s | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
This is why I'm playing BW all the time even though SC2 is just sitting on my computer. >.> Granted SC2 is fun...I don't think there's a lot of people who deny that it doesn't provide some entertainment, but to me it's much easier to get bored in SC2 than it is to get bored in BW. | ||
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Lexpar
1813 Posts
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On October 24 2010 14:40 Medzo wrote: Every time there is one of these threads there is always someone like this that has no clue what hes talking about. I can see how you think this at a low level of play though which is why a lot of people that have only played sc2 don't take the majority of BW opinions seriously. Well I reached C+ on iccup and I'm around mid diamond (if that really means anything now, i dunno) so I'm not really THAT low leveled. I've been playing Sc2 since it came out and I've been playing BW for a few years so I'm not really that low leveled....(account was thescorpio(OD) if you care). Care to tell me where and why I'm wrong instead of making unsubstantiated statements? Also perhaps read this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Btw I find statements like this hilarious: a lot of people that have only played sc2 don't take the majority of BW opinions seriously. . Sc2-only players looking down on BW players LOL | ||
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crayhasissues
United States682 Posts
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On October 25 2010 00:49 Scruffy wrote: I mean everytime a game or movie is revolutionary (think Halo or The Matrix), fans will NEVER be satisfied with the sequel. So i guess we should play BW for 20 more years with the outdated graphics and such. Im sure it will really help grow esports. I did play BW and loved it, but SC2 is here. The two games can coexist, but it seems like the BW players don't want it that way. Way to generalize. I think Halo 2 sucked and that Halo reach surpasses Halo 1. I also love CoD4 way more than I liked any of the earlier CoD games. Civilization 5 is the best Civilization game, better than 3, and Supreme Commander Forged Alliance improved on the original. As for the matrix, it's not nostalgia bogging down the sequel. It's just that the sequel was absolutely atrocious by any standards. Bad example. You really shouldn't be shallow and go "new game is here, it's better than the old" without having any actual reasons other than "oooh good graphics" (once again really shallow). I've played sc2 a lot and i did it with an open mind but i just feel in terms of gameplay its simply inferior to the original. Don't really care about graphics | ||
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alexpnd
Canada1857 Posts
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crayhasissues
United States682 Posts
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Zapdos_Smithh
Canada2620 Posts
On October 25 2010 04:04 Scruffy wrote: Then play BW. I really don't mind at all. Im just tired of the general attitude that SC2 is easy mode and only newbs play it. While it does automate some things that BW didn't, it just means that matches will be decided more by strategy and other factors than messing up in early game. Which is fine by me. Hey what was your rank on iccup btw? | ||
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crayhasissues
United States682 Posts
On October 25 2010 04:09 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Hey what was your rank on iccup btw? I didn't play ICCUP till late in BW, I don't even remember what rank I was. I don't try to play professionally, I play for fun. I didn't know you were pro. Never heard of you. | ||
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mustaju
Estonia4504 Posts
On October 25 2010 05:24 Scruffy wrote: I didn't play ICCUP till late in BW, I don't even remember what rank I was. I don't try to play professionally, I play for fun. I didn't know you were pro. Never heard of you. Playing on the ICCUP server and getting ranked is no different from the SC2 ladder. What are you insinuating? | ||
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crayhasissues
United States682 Posts
On October 25 2010 05:35 mustaju wrote: Playing on the ICCUP server and getting ranked is no different from the SC2 ladder. What are you insinuating? I was insinuating what I said. I play for fun, therefore ICCUP rank doesn't really matter to me. I'm not arguing with you guys anymore. Go play BW and I'll play SC2. | ||
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Zapdos_Smithh
Canada2620 Posts
On October 25 2010 05:24 Scruffy wrote: I didn't play ICCUP till late in BW, I don't even remember what rank I was. I don't try to play professionally, I play for fun. I didn't know you were pro. Never heard of you. Lol. | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On October 25 2010 05:35 mustaju wrote: Playing on the ICCUP server and getting ranked is no different from the SC2 ladder. What are you insinuating? There is a difference.There's a reason why ICCup is preferred over the ordinary Blizzard system. . It's because you get a letter.  | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
Sure, you can say that TLO, Idra, Jinro, etc are all high level, and I'd agree with that. But when you look below the best of the best, you see that sooooooooooo many people still fall into that 1 control group syndrome thing. I was watching a stream of a tournament the other day, (I think it was gunrun stream, forgot the tournament) and watched a player just run his whole ball of MnM into collossi. I was like, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? YOU JUST THREW THE GAME! Wtf... At least broodwar foreigners knew how to flank. -_-" In fact, the game FORCED them to split their units and so forth. Ugh. Idk, the skill level needed to be considered "pro" in SC2 is just depressing. Please, give the actual pros some dignity and don't compare random diamond players to them. Another thing I miss, the fact that people accepted Koreans kill at this game. I feel like a lot of people play SC2 because it's easier therefore they think they'll be on even grounds with Koreans and can take them down. Come on now, lol. Foreign players aren't winning GSL. Let's be realistic here... but w/e. We can all hope anyway. | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On October 25 2010 00:49 Scruffy wrote: I mean everytime a game or movie is revolutionary (think Halo or The Matrix), fans will NEVER be satisfied with the sequel. So i guess we should play BW for 20 more years with the outdated graphics and such. Im sure it will really help grow esports. I did play BW and loved it, but SC2 is here. The two games can coexist, but it seems like the BW players don't want it that way. Personally i wish SC2 had never came out, and BW was still the #1 game | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On October 24 2010 14:40 Medzo wrote: Every time there is one of these threads there is always someone like this that has no clue what hes talking about. I can see how you think this at a low level of play though which is why a lot of people that have only played sc2 don't take the majority of BW opinions seriously. Every time there is one of these threads, there is always some scrubass who think they know wtf they are talking about. Iccup rank SC2 ladder rank plz. sc2 players looking down on BW players rofl. | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On October 25 2010 05:46 Scruffy wrote: I was insinuating what I said. I play for fun, therefore ICCUP rank doesn't really matter to me. I'm not arguing with you guys anymore. Go play BW and I'll play SC2. Sure get the fuck out of this thread pls :-( On topic, I just watched ACE vs MBC and realized that actually BW was far from dead, watch set 4 asap, you will get goosebumps ! I just hope that Blizzard stops his PR bullshit and gets raped in court for the sake of the korean pro-scene. | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27128 Posts
On October 24 2010 13:51 Hikko wrote: I do miss some aspects of Brood War. I don't miss the Dragoon AI I don't miss the sheer amount of units that were just useless/overly situational I don't miss Scarab AI I don't miss the UI that didn't register your actions when you went too fast I don't miss 12-unit control groups I don't miss the manual worker placement to minerals I don't miss memorizing intricate setups in order to make ling-proof wall offs in every position on every map I don't miss the crummy worker AI I don't miss iCCup smurfs I don't miss all the drop hackers I don't miss all the map hackers I don't miss crappy old Battle.Net After seeing the GSL finals and now the Boxer vs FruitDealer showmatch, I know for a fact that Starcraft 2 can surpass every single epic game of Brood War, even on the current map pool. Somehow I doubt that you are too fast for the UI and Jaedong isn't:p | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
On October 25 2010 08:43 Manifesto7 wrote: Somehow I doubt that you are too fast for the UI and Jaedong isn't:p I thought that problem mostly came from that fact that when people press 1a+left click their finger is still on the mouse when they press 2a so the 2a doesn't register and a control group is left behind. I don't think speed has anything to do with it not registering but just the timing and accuracy of your clicks. | ||
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
On October 25 2010 04:04 Scruffy wrote: Then play BW. I really don't mind at all. Im just tired of the general attitude that SC2 is easy mode and only newbs play it. While it does automate some things that BW didn't, it just means that matches will be decided more by strategy and other factors than messing up in early game. Which is fine by me. if you mess up early game you are just bad, this is the same across every game, ever... "oops lolol i made probes for ten minutes and didn't tell any of them to mine so i lost! thank god this is fixed for me in sc2 so now i can concentrate on important things like strategy!" | ||
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Hikko
United States1126 Posts
On October 25 2010 08:43 Manifesto7 wrote: Somehow I doubt that you are too fast for the UI and Jaedong isn't:p Probably my crappy keyboard, I only play Brood War when I have time to waste in the library on campus at my college (usually). Overused public keyboards are no bueno for gaming in general. I'll gladly withdraw that part of my statement, although the SC:BW UI sometimes is a little questionable | ||
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