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I think it's a good system that allows hardcore players the ability to dominate the ladder but also gives people with less time on their hands the ability to stay competitive.
It's similar to the experience bonus in WoW (if they even still have that, I dunno) that you accumulated when logged off.
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France8043 Posts
On May 20 2010 07:54 Piy wrote:
I think it's a good system that allows hardcore players the ability to dominate the ladder but also gives people with less time on their hands the ability to stay competitive.
It's similar to the experience bonus in WoW (if they even still have that, I dunno) that you accumulated when logged off.
And if you are in between ? :/
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On May 20 2010 07:56 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 07:54 Piy wrote:
I think it's a good system that allows hardcore players the ability to dominate the ladder but also gives people with less time on their hands the ability to stay competitive.
It's similar to the experience bonus in WoW (if they even still have that, I dunno) that you accumulated when logged off. And if you are in between ? :/
Then you still benefit from the bonus system.
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Um, unless you are CAPPING OUT your bonus pool for not playing in ages then you gain the same bonus as they do. Its based on hours on your account, whether or not you play during them I believe. The guy 22-18 probably played high ranked players and so they are higher rated. In any case, if you gain more points due to bonus pool, and player higher rated players, you were eventually drop back to what you should be without bonus.
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I really don't have a problem with bonus pool. I'm *fairly* sure that even if you are playing 24/7 you still accumulate the same amount of bonus pool as someone who is offline for a few days. (Only difference is their bonus pool is actually a POOL, whereas mass gamers would be getting 1 bonus pool every so often, and then using it) Mass gamers will still remain on the top, right?
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yeah, the bonus pool system is really scaring me off from longer sessions, even though i tell myself its only beta. if they gave us larger bonus pools or just scrapped the whole thing i'd enjoy it a lot more. or if icc got a server running :D
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I don't think it is the bonus pool that is the problem, it's more the "favoured" system and how it allocates points for wins and takes away points for losses. It seems you generally always lose very few points, and gain a lot in my experience so far. The bonus pool itself isn't very big.
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France8043 Posts
On May 20 2010 07:58 Kong John wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 07:56 Boblion wrote:On May 20 2010 07:54 Piy wrote:
I think it's a good system that allows hardcore players the ability to dominate the ladder but also gives people with less time on their hands the ability to stay competitive.
It's similar to the experience bonus in WoW (if they even still have that, I dunno) that you accumulated when logged off. And if you are in between ? :/ Then you still benefit from the bonus system.
Yeah and that's why 22-18 had more points than my 30-15.
Read the OP please.
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On May 20 2010 07:58 Kong John wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 07:56 Boblion wrote:On May 20 2010 07:54 Piy wrote:
I think it's a good system that allows hardcore players the ability to dominate the ladder but also gives people with less time on their hands the ability to stay competitive.
It's similar to the experience bonus in WoW (if they even still have that, I dunno) that you accumulated when logged off. And if you are in between ? :/ Then you still benefit from the bonus system.
That is correct. I don't see why people are complaining.
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Presumably your rating will stabilize at a certain number if you play a huge number of games and your skill doesn't change as you're playing them. I don't think the bonus pool affects this number (except in the very short term; it can temporarily push you above but not by very many points) -> if your rating gets higher than it should be, you lose more per loss and get less per win without bonus points. I suppose if you only played when you had enough bonus points to double the reward for any potential win you could stabilize at a slightly higher rating maybe.
Bonus points certainly get you up to your stable rating faster.
But I don't actually know how the system works. If it doesn't work this way then it seems broken to me.
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As far as I know, everyone gets the same amount of bonus pool points no matter when they decide to play and use them. You aren't penalized in any way for mass gaming, and people who only play with bonus points aren't getting any advantage in the standings. At 30-15, you received just as many bonus points as the guy who's 22-18 (or you will after you use your current bonus points if you haven't yet); if you're below him on the ladder, it's just because he played better opponents.
The bonus pool system allows people to increase their rating without actually becoming any better. Without it, an average gamer who improved at an average rate would always remain at 1000, which isn't very encouraging. With bonus, everyone gets to keep moving up ~100 points a week by winning 50% of the time.
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I can't be sure that I comprehend,
The workings of the bonus pool,
Receive a raft of points to commend,
And to reward me for going to school?
Yet I'm a man of many vices,
Sit down to play, force noobs to GG,
but soon when left to my own devices,
Find myself loading up Bad Company
I guess then what I'm trying to say,
Is that some of us need the bonus,
Because we don't get the chance to play,
Often enough so that pros don't own us
It doesn't make the bonus pool right,
But goes some way to help our plight
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France8043 Posts
Now i don't really get it.
The maximum point i have got after a win was +44 ( didn't ladder for one week and i played vs a favoured opponent ).
But when my bonus pool is empty i get like something like +14.
So you are all saying that i also benefit from the bonus but why would i risk to lose 5-10 points for 14 when i can wait two days and get a +30-44 ?
When you start to get better competition i think it makes the ladder biased.
I mean let's say you have a 50% win ratio your expected point value after one match if you have an empty bonus pool is like 14-5 or 14-10 ~ 5-10 pts.
If your bonus pool is full it is at least twice. After clearing the bonus you have almost no incentive to play more.
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On May 20 2010 08:21 Boblion wrote:
Now i don't really get it.
The maximum point i have got after a win was +44 ( didn't ladder for one week and i played vs a favoured opponent ).
But when my bonus pool is empty i get like something like +14.
So you are all saying that i also benefit from the bonus but why would i risk to lose 5-10 points for 14 when i can wait two days and get a +30-44 ?
When you start to get better competition i think it makes the ladder biased.
I mean let's say you have a 50% win ratio your expected point value after one match if you have an empty bonus pool is like 14-5 or 14-10 ~ 5-10 pts.
If your bonus pool is full it is at least twice. After clearing the bonus you have almost no incentive to play more.
Maybe you can play because Starcraft 2 is fun? Who only plays SC2 to get to the top of the ladder, but doesn't even enjoy it?
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I think the only thing the bonus pool discourages is getting to the top of the ladder, and then staying there without playing any more games because their bonus points will accumulate without being used. So it's pretty much like rank decay, as seen in wc3 ladder, except more of a "loss of opportunity gain" instead of an outright loss, making it seem nicer and more positive than any kind of exp decay. Which is actually a pretty good idea if you think about it...
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well, that was unexpected and awesome... (edit: sonnet's post)
The person with less wins and more points then you is not because of the bonus pool system, that is simply how the ladder works, they are playing higher level players then you. Matchmaking happens based on a hidden number in the background, and then points are allocated based on a comparison of the visible numbers.
example, I play and show I am at 1600 in the invisible ranking system, I will be playing other 1600 ranked players, who generally will have 1600 pts. If I am only 1100 though because I just started into the plat league, then I will be getting 20-24 pts a win until I am at the 1600 level, at which point I will level out to the standard 12. If you are generally playing against people favored, the system is trying to boost you up, if you are generally favored the system is checking to see if you need to be lowered down.
Bonus points are simply a flat bonus amount of points added to everybody's pool over time (they just happen to be added when you win). You have accumilated the same number of bonus points as the other people who started the same time as you (it may even give a starting pool of bonus points based on how old the division is)
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France8043 Posts
On May 20 2010 08:26 GenesisX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 08:21 Boblion wrote:
Now i don't really get it.
The maximum point i have got after a win was +44 ( didn't ladder for one week and i played vs a favoured opponent ).
But when my bonus pool is empty i get like something like +14.
So you are all saying that i also benefit from the bonus but why would i risk to lose 5-10 points for 14 when i can wait two days and get a +30-44 ?
When you start to get better competition i think it makes the ladder biased.
I mean let's say you have a 50% win ratio your expected point value after one match if you have an empty bonus pool is like 14-5 or 14-10 ~ 5-10 pts.
If your bonus pool is full it is at least twice. After clearing the bonus you have almost no incentive to play more.
Maybe you can play because Starcraft 2 is fun? Who only plays SC2 to get to the top of the ladder, but doesn't even enjoy it?
Laddering is mostly about achieving a rank ( even if it is modest ). If i want to play for fun i can always make a private game with my friends 
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I like it because it encourages people to play different game types. You don't have to play one game type constantly to maintain your position. Besides, can't be letting those bonus points go to waste! I can't wait for 3v3 and 4v4 ladders... hopefully they institute one for FFA as well.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 20 2010 08:03 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 07:58 Kong John wrote:On May 20 2010 07:56 Boblion wrote:On May 20 2010 07:54 Piy wrote:
I think it's a good system that allows hardcore players the ability to dominate the ladder but also gives people with less time on their hands the ability to stay competitive.
It's similar to the experience bonus in WoW (if they even still have that, I dunno) that you accumulated when logged off. And if you are in between ? :/ Then you still benefit from the bonus system. Yeah and that's why 22-18 had more points than my 30-15. Read the OP please.
Do you have any guarantee that the difference doesn't have to do with him having more wins against better players or less losses against worse players?
IMO the bonus pool was implemented to combat a problem that occurred in WoW arenas, which was that people who had reached a certain point on the ladder (say, top of their battlegroup) would stop playing for fear of losing their spot. This way, you're incentivized to play at least enough to consume your bonus pool, because a player worse than you that's consuming more of his bonus pool points will still rise to a higher rating than you.
On May 20 2010 08:34 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 08:26 GenesisX wrote:On May 20 2010 08:21 Boblion wrote:
Now i don't really get it.
The maximum point i have got after a win was +44 ( didn't ladder for one week and i played vs a favoured opponent ).
But when my bonus pool is empty i get like something like +14.
So you are all saying that i also benefit from the bonus but why would i risk to lose 5-10 points for 14 when i can wait two days and get a +30-44 ?
When you start to get better competition i think it makes the ladder biased.
I mean let's say you have a 50% win ratio your expected point value after one match if you have an empty bonus pool is like 14-5 or 14-10 ~ 5-10 pts.
If your bonus pool is full it is at least twice. After clearing the bonus you have almost no incentive to play more.
Maybe you can play because Starcraft 2 is fun? Who only plays SC2 to get to the top of the ladder, but doesn't even enjoy it? Laddering is mostly about achieving a rank ( even if it is modest ). If i want to play for fun i can always make a private game with my friends
Laddering is about improving at the game. To that end, the entire rating system is just a facade to make stats-conscious people feel good about themselves, because it's not even used for the real matchmaking (purportedly, another hidden rating is used for that purpose).
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EPT
