I think that the argument in favor of Assem because he is good and the Dream Team needs a good player is an issue only if the ladder was free. Since, everybody paid 20 bucks i find that decision is horrible and venice should AT LEAST get his money back. Fucking abuse

iSuXOr

United States606 Posts

April 10 2003 21:05 GMT

#67

On April 11 2003 06:02 maThRaf wrote:
I think that the argument in favor of Assem because he is good and the Dream Team needs a good player is an issue only if the ladder was free. Since, everybody paid 20 bucks i find that decision is horrible and venice should AT LEAST get his money back. Fucking abuse

Exactly. When they paid they basically made a contract to get what they paid for and Venice hasn't gotten that.

XaI)CyRiC

United States4471 Posts

April 10 2003 22:16 GMT

#68

The more this issue gets discussed, the more faith I lose in the SC/BW community. Even though it still seems to be a minority that agrees with Smuft's decision, it still disgusts me to see how many people are trying to justify the breaking of the rules by someone just because they happened to run it or by someone just because they're skilled.

Sure Smuft made it and ran it, but most people who have any character or morals/ethics would try to run it fairly and follow the rules that they made themselves. Smuft made rules, punished some people for some violations, and let others slide. I have no respect for him anymore, despite whether or not Assem really did abuse or not. His attitude of "I don't care if they abused or not, he's in" is arrogant and irresponsible.

As to those of you who are trying to justify the alleged abuse (again I'm operating on the assumption they did abuse), your reasons of "Assem's better", "Kiddie would never make it anyways, etc. are ridiculous and show just how much like Smuft you all are. Evidently the level of professionalism and ethics for some of you is low enough that you'd break rules whenever it would benefit yourselves.

At this point I don't really care if Assem and Testie abused or not, that discussion will never end because there's not enough proof for those who don't want to believe it and the people who do believe it have already made up their minds. Whether they did or not, the way the situation was handled by Smuft, and the comments made by some of the people on this forum making excuses for the alleged abuse, has disappointed me to no end. This probably doesn't mean anything to most of whom this is directed to, but I really don't care anymore.

mindspike

Canada1902 Posts

April 10 2003 22:19 GMT

#69

YA, i like the part about kicking out dreame and letting blackman play!

or how about just letting dreame pick the top 32 himself and cancel the ladder results

Qvark

Sweden185 Posts

April 10 2003 22:24 GMT

#70

dreame and his terran is the shit..not
btw assem is imo greatly overrated.
I've never seen him play him non-lt, will be interesting to see how he does..

Manifesto7

Osaka27109 Posts

April 10 2003 22:58 GMT

#71

I agree with your points Cyric, except the one that says WDT should be run with morals and ethics. From the information I have, which isnt all of it, I would agree that venice got screwed. I was infact told on the the last day of the ladder that the reps for those games existed, and one game was 40+ mins, but I talked to the supposed holders of those reps, and they were not forthcoming.

That aside, WDT was not a public institution. It was a private ladder run by a private group of individuals. Does this make Smuft morally right? No. But it does make him the authority in this decision. Will I or Venice participate in another ladder run by Smuft? No, and that is my right as a consumer.

Let me claify one thing though. I will never argue that someone should be let in because of his past skill level and accomplishments, if that was the case, the final tourny should be an invite one rather then a ladder based one.

This is why I think that, although I dont agree with the decision, it can and should be made by Smuft.

The true justice will be when assem and testie dont win.

Mani~

Pol

Poland1187 Posts

April 10 2003 23:02 GMT

#72

If Venice dont play in #32

im catch Assem dont worry be happy new day

XaI)CyRiC

United States4471 Posts

April 10 2003 23:13 GMT

#73

On April 11 2003 07:58 Manifesto7 wrote:
I agree with your points Cyric, except the one that says WDT should be run with morals and ethics. From the information I have, which isnt all of it, I would agree that venice got screwed. I was infact told on the the last day of the ladder that the reps for those games existed, and one game was 40+ mins, but I talked to the supposed holders of those reps, and they were not forthcoming.

That aside, WDT was not a public institution. It was a private ladder run by a private group of individuals. Does this make Smuft morally right? No. But it does make him the authority in this decision. Will I or Venice participate in another ladder run by Smuft? No, and that is my right as a consumer.

Let me claify one thing though. I will never argue that someone should be let in because of his past skill level and accomplishments, if that was the case, the final tourny should be an invite one rather then a ladder based one.

This is why I think that, although I dont agree with the decision, it can and should be made by Smuft.

The true justice will be when assem and testie dont win.

Mani~

Oh I don't disagree that the decision should be Smuft's (or the Dream team), and that he has the right to make it. I'm just saying that it disappoints me to see what he did with that right. My statement about professionalism, ethics, morals, etc. were all mentioned because I would think that anyone who had any of the aforementioned attributes would have done things differently. I don't dispute Smuft's rights or power, only his abuse of the above. Like I said, it disappointed me. But who cares what I think anyways eh?

Guybrush

Spain4744 Posts

April 10 2003 23:16 GMT

#74

pretty funny the 2 abusers(smuft/elky) are in same team as the biggest anti-hack/abuse player ever(nazgul)

Manifesto7

Osaka27109 Posts

April 10 2003 23:21 GMT

#75

heh, i dont think they will listen to either of us.
Mani~

DV8

United States1623 Posts

April 10 2003 23:36 GMT

#76

I say whats done is done, and if no one can come up with any solid proof about abuse than why bother with circumstancial evidence? I haven't seen the replays but I am certain as easily as you can say its abuse you can prolly give reasons for what happened in the game as legtimacy which will just bring you to a stalemate and isn't worth arguing over.

Ilvy

Germany2445 Posts

April 11 2003 02:05 GMT

#77

This old post is unavailable due to an encoding issue. Please contact an admin if you would like this post restored for historical reasons.

SDT-Skav

France20 Posts

April 11 2003 02:08 GMT

#78

Smuft did not run the ladder. All he did was some very controversial actions as an admin ( especially baning people without a reason, because "some people I know are convinced of it" ). The wgtour team programmed the ladder and did the everyday job of managing complaints, answering on the forums, advertising, etc.

Liquid.Venice

United States916 Posts

April 11 2003 02:12 GMT

#79

skav you have msn?

RowdyBob

Australia206 Posts

April 11 2003 02:32 GMT

#80

What a surprise from Steven "Smuft" King. Him and Assem are good friends and blows me down Assem gets to stay in the tourny even after abusing. Can't say im surprised, but Kiddie should sue for his $20 back! Smuft knows Assem cheated, but as he said, it's his decision and what he decides goes. The decision really does make a mockery of his "to ensure it was carried out as legitimately and accurately as possible".
:7