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medic list?
crate
vx70GTOJudgexv
zeks
teks
ydg
SugiuraMidori
Hard filling up the list imo. :s
Here's Shikyo's earlier suggestion:
On May 22 2009 04:57 Shikyo wrote:
Medic List:
crate
zeks
teks
vx70GTOJudgexv
ydg
iLoveKTF
Basically, I've added ydg because he has been useful to the town, primarily with his clue analysis. Otherwise, the once change was that Jimtudor was removed for obvious reasons.
Judge's is identical.
Both were made before Midori posted anything day 2
Goodluck in choosing your saves medics.
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I'd take iLoveKTF off the list. Just woke up, reading.
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aaaaaaand i'm now going to sleep
i'll let shikyo take over from my doing-nothing-in-the-thread position u_u;
i'll be more vocal in the thread now, esp over the weekend. we really can't afford too many missed lynches unless we yomi the fuck out of the mafia.
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About Shikyo's Accusations.
1.) Shikyo thinks I am mafia because I ran for office and preferred mayor.
I already explained this somewhere, I wanted the first kill to make sure It would go to an inactive, I also wanted the Mayor's 3 votes to stop bandwagon. I know this has been said somewhere but look at the elections. I dindt receive any support. Even a little "I think i will consider voting iLoveKTF", what does this tell the town? IT TELLS THE TOWN THAT I AM NOT MAFIA. I know this has been said but I'm just gonna take this opportunity to say it once again because Shikyo doesnt get it, I dont know why. And you added about me just talking random things about rules, etc. What does it have to do with me being mafia or not??? Imo, you are just writing other useless stuff so that your posts becomes long and make it seem like your are contributing to the town, which some townsmen heavely disagrees. You have done nothing as Mayor. You didnt attempt to start or join the conversation on why we should or should not lynch jayme at all. As what have already been said, you havent been beneficial to the town as mayor at all. Why? I dont know maybe because you are mafia?
2.) Me proposing to not have a medic list.
I have no explanation about that. That is a dumb move on my part. But that doesnt scream "I AM MAFIA" at all. Notice also after I said that, no one talked about the proposition, everyone just disregarded it. If i were mafia, I'd have at least have one of my mates to start a conversation about it.
3.) The medic list and Jimtudor.
One of my pm to Jeejee:
lol sorry pressed enter too soon. I voted you coz I didnt want Jimtudor to win any seat. Im suspecting him.
With that, I want everyone to know starting from Day 1, I was seriously thinking Jimtudor was red, I wont tell everyone why coz that is already moot and academic since he has died. (facepalm on my part,)
proof? another one of my pms to Jeejee:
yeah thats fine with me. if i survive till day 2 im gonna start a crusade against jimtudor. glgl
we all knew what happened next, he died.
That being said, the reason why I didnt want jimtudor in any medic list because I was suspecting him, and I thought putting him on medic list would have the notion that jimtudor could be trusted to the town. (considering the fact we are all relatively new here).
4.) Shikyo suspects I am mafia because I abstained from lynching Jayme.
Everyone knows I was the first one to propose to lynch Jayme, I even had a clue analysis linking his cat picture to catwoman (who had a whip). The reason why I abstained because I was waiting for people to explain all there accusations so we get a new suspect or something. But we ran out of time before I could even change my vote. Why would I try to explain why I was abstaining if I was hiding my vote so I would not be suspicious.
Also, you suspect me about clarifying what I meant? Cmon, are you kidding me...
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About Jayme: You all seem SO disappointed on Jayme turning out green. When we lynch SOLELY based on clues (which, by day 2, we basically have to rely on), we are bound to miss. What sucks is that we don't know for sure how Pyrr writes his clues, hopefully we can work better with the clues after our first mafioso lynch.
You all seem to think that we are doomed because we lynched a townie, an inactive one at that. I think it's a good result for day 2. The town found too suspicious of Jayme to just let him be, we would never be sure of him, and it's not like we had any other prime suspects (perhaps except iLoveKTF, but that was brought up too late).
This game will start to take shape on day 3 results, imo. We will probably have 3 more clues to go on, and a double lynch too. What I feel is important is that people don't jump to conclusions solely based on clues. We can't waste lynches now, we HAVE to connect clues and behavior, possibly also voting patterns if we find anything useful. What would be the best is that if any of you suspect someone, build a sure-fire case before presenting it, instead of just throwing accusations all over the place. Shikyo's post is a good example on building a case on iLoveKTF, which in my opinion is much stronger than any of the suspects we have had so far.
We all seem to think that one single word is a clue (crepuscular, Erlend Loe, zerg creep, slump etc.), I don't think that's how it works (but we can't know for sure until we confirm it, like I stated). I think there are mafia profiles that we need to work out, based on their appearance, their killing method, their attributes, etc.
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Why is SugiuraMidori on the list?
"I think today is a lost cause, assuming Jayme turns green. If he turns red, I'd be extremely surprised." Was it the second time I was right?  I told people to hold off from voting while I analyzed. I don't think it was possible to save the day, because everyone just bandwagoned. Something I think I adviced against. Now, let us look at the people on the list of suspects, who were actively proposing the lynching of Jayme. I wonder if they'll match(I'm confident they do).
On May 23 2009 14:38 chaoser wrote:
guys, come on...really? I really have two problems with this town.
1)Elected Officials, DO SOMETHING. YOU ARE PROTECTED UNLESS BODYGUARDS DIE. That means you have way more freedom than anyone else. mafia can't target you so take more risks. really? clue analysis? we need a town web set up asap!
2) DTs, medics, mouths, get in touch with THE ELECTED, i'm not saying role claim, i mean say you're the mouth or that you have info or something. It's better than us sitting around not doing anything!
Something more than having pointed out about 5 mafia suspects and the reasoning behind everything? What have you done?
On May 23 2009 13:33 iLoveKTF wrote:
@ Shikyo's accusations: I'll address it later. Im watch SKT vs KTF atm.
@ Jayme's death. Why are you guys so mad/upset about him flipping green. Its not like you suggested anyone else.
Hey, guess what. That ended already. Maybe we've upset because he's green? And it's not like YOU suggested anyone else. WTF.
Voting for you unless something comes up.
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On May 23 2009 16:47 Shikyo wrote:
Why is SugiuraMidori on the list?
Got a better sixth?
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Right, so read recent posts before hitting post. Oh well, another post after reading what iLoveKTF said:
I'm suspecting you're Mafia for playing stupidly and not contrubuting anything. The reasoning behind you being suspicious of Jimtudor was stupid. You never really explained anything, etc. Yes, I'm suspecting you're Mafia because of clarifying yourself. There was absolutely no need for any clarification, just might seem so if you're mafia.
As you might have noticed, you still haven't contributed anything? Me talking about those random clues was just an example of you contributing nothing.
And you didn't address the terrible argument about Jimtudor being on the list making me suspicious, and why you thought that the mafia could possibly have some plan like that. So you basically evaded anything important.
I think I will consider voting for iLoveKTF. That's what you wanted to hear, isn't it?
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shikyo hi5 that's enough "stupid" in one post to make me proud
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OK I'll take one for the town since Shikyo's is so intent on having me killed. (I also have some gay recollection thingy this weekend, I will show pics for proof). I was initially asking for a modkill but since I am under heave suspicion I'd just leave it at that. Im coming back if I haven't died yet anyway.
Mafia kill me now! or town lynch me the next day. If I turn green, Shikyo is red.
dun dun dun dun...
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OMG SHIKYO A REPHRASE:
I was initially contemplating a modkill. didnt actually ask yet.
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On May 23 2009 16:58 crate wrote:
shikyo hi5 that's enough "stupid" in one post to make me proud
My pleasure =)
iLoveKTF, you know even better than me that it wouldn't make me red.
I propose that in this game, you can only be modkilled by being inactive.
Also, your rephrase was unnecessary assuming you've been reading the other thread.
So, assuming you're innocent, why have you played as if you didn't know how to, even though you have so much experience? -.-;; You know that after being modkilled, you're banned from the next game?
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I want town to win but i dont want to use modkills to do it.
]=
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Getting modkilled in this game has far worse consequences than in my game. Please consider that. Pyrrhuloxia and I and probably a few others will discuss exactly what they are the next time I see him, but they will involve at LEAST a 2 game ban.
EDIT: Ok after a quick discussion, modkill requests that are only due to game-related reasons will not be honored (though obviously we cannot force you to vote). If you have a legitimate out of game reason to get yourself modkilled, take it up with the host privately. If you try and troll the thread to force a modkill, we will let the TL staff deal with you as they see fit.
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As a Regular host of mafia games, I FULLY ENDORSE AND AGREE WITH QATOL'S POST ON MODKILLING
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I'd like to take a moment to speak to the medics.
With the turn of events, please wait as long as possible before submitting your night action. Let the town discuss a bit before making your decision, instead of protecting someone you may find unneccessary or unwise to protect by the end of the night (for instance protecting iLoveKTF who may be getting modkilled).
The longer you wait with submitting an action (obviously do it before night time is going to end, don't try to stall the game), the more information you will have that can help you decide who you want to protect, or who you think the mafia will hit that night.
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On May 23 2009 17:30 Qatol wrote:
Getting modkilled in this game has far worse consequences than in my game. Please consider that. Pyrrhuloxia and I and probably a few others will discuss exactly what they are the next time I see him, but they will involve at LEAST a 2 game ban.
EDIT: Ok after a quick discussion, modkill requests that are only due to game-related reasons will not be honored (though obviously we cannot force you to vote). If you have a legitimate out of game reason to get yourself modkilled, take it up with the host privately. If you try and troll the thread to force a modkill, we will let the TL staff deal with you as they see fit.
Thanks, Qatol. It's ridiculous how people can say that they'll modkill themselves, then don't have to do it. And then the other people don't dare to do anything because of the threat of losing an innocent for no reason.
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Ok, it's finger pointing time. I've been working on a case for a while now, I didn't want to say anything until I had gathered more information, so please bear with me as I bring up old quotes and old arguments to try to form a behavior pattern of the suspect.
I accuse zeks of being the Godfather. I think that he is the person who is organizing the mafia kills, which would also make sense seeing how he is one of the most active persons in the thread. I'm going to divide this post into three parts, in order not to flood the entire page. I'm going to focus on behavior, because the voting patterns up till now are too weak to rely on, and there doesn't seem to be any blatantly obvious clues pointing to zeks (which would explain why he is taking risks). If needed be, I can bring these two points in to strengthen my case later on, as I do think there is SOME material to work with in those two departments as well.
WARNING! This post is going to be lengthy, but know that I worked alot on this, so I ask that you atleast skim through it to see if I'm onto something here. It COULD be vital for the town's gameplan.
+ Show Spoiler [Behavior] +The first piece of information I want to convey is two PM's I received from zeks before the night to day 2. These are unedited, except that I added a (nick) in front of each PM so it's easier to see who's saying what. This should, like any PM history, be read from the bottom to the top. + Show Spoiler [PM conversation] +
(teks) I don't TRUST anyone to be honest. Not even you But I'm pretty positive that Shikyo isn't mafia. And JeeJee has had me convinced. Jury is still out on Jimtudor I guess - I don't trust him yet.
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(zeks) Original Message:
do you trust all 3 of - Shikyo, JimTudor and JeeJee?
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(teks) Original Message:
atm I'm suspecting Foolishness, Phelix and softer. Mostly based on laying low and votes though, it's hard to judge them with the low activity level we are having at the moment.. I really hope we manage to draw people out.
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(zeks) Original Message:
who are you suspecting behaviour wise?
At first, I was kind of wondering why he was asking me this all of a sudden, we hadn't talked any at all in PM's prior to this. But I had nothing to hide, I layed out who I suspected, he got the information, and I never heard from him again. What do I make of this? zeks thinks I'm a possible medic. He was asking around (it would be entirely possible that more of you received the same kind of PM's) to find out who the medics were least likely to be protecting. So in my case, I was suspicious of Foolishness, Phelix, softer and Jimtudor. Then what happens? Oh yeah, softer and Jimtudor dies. Yes, my suspicions were WAY off, but that's not the case here. If I was going to go on a stretch and assume that I was the only one he talked to, I would think that either Foolishness or Phelix got hit too that night, but it was either blocked by one of them being a veteran, or a medic. I'm thinking the first. Or maybe they just chose someone else randomly in order to not bring up too much suspicion, or they stacked hit's on one of the targets (Jimtudor?). Either way, two of my suspects died that night. I'm going to go over his posts now to point out any inconsistencies, irregularities or possible mafia behavior. + Show Spoiler [Quotes Part 1] +zeks' first post was made on page 8. On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote:
I don't agree with lynching an inactive the first day. Since this is a newbie friendly game, those with blue roles might be more inclined to stay lurking since they know they have an important role and don't want to die so early. Oh what do you know, he's against lynching an inactive. What a surprise. What I have been seeing with new players is that his scenario doesn't fit at all. The inactive ones are, as I see it, usually townies who are disappointed in not getting a role, and feeling that they don't have anything to do, so they get bored with it. The new players who end up with a blue role tend to be more eager and active because they feel that they mean something. On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote:
I remember when I was a medic (many times) all I thought about was staying alive so I can at least be able to contribute with protections each night - thus I stayed quiet and only communicated through PMs. I probably should have gone over his behavior in previous games before making this post, but I haven't. I'm sorry. If anyone wants to do that go right ahead. Either way, that sure isn't how he's playing now. I'm assuming this means that he has changed attitude, and no longer feels that this is the best way to play a blue role, if that is the case I would think that he, as a useful town aligned person, would encourage the new blue players to stand up for themselves, not just explaining why they would be inactive. The other possibility is of course, that he isn't a blue. Then, in his first post, he also made his statement that he would be running for mayor. His plans are not anything spectacular, but there are tidbits that can be discussed here, for instance the fact that he is opposing the vigi plan to get a confirmed townie: On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote:
I think Crate brought up a great point about the trouble of getting a confirmed towny. The vigi plan has some flaws though. The vigi can't roleclaim and announce his hit to the whole town because a mafia could just do the same. I noticed in the day post that the mafia don't have names. So we wouldn't really know if a new vigi has come out and performed his announced hit. So he is basically disregarding the whole idea because the mafia doesn't have names (why would they have names? Have they ever had names in any previous games?). He is completely disregarding the fact that if a red player was hit, only a vigi could be behind it, and that vigi should have no problems with both pointing out the clues leading to himself, and get the support of the people he reached out to prior to his hit. What I make of this is that he is against getting a confirmed townie through this method, instead of pointing out the flaws and suggesting another way of doing it, he just denies the whole idea. Next, he is opposed to getting a confirmed townie through medic protection, too. He states the following: On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote:
Nowhere does it say that the medic will know the role of the person he has saved. I agree that it is more likely for a medic to save a mafia hit than a vigi hit, but as a medic in previous games myself, it's pretty hard to judge who is going to get hit every night (that or I was a horrible medic lol). Also, in the less likely case of saving a mafia from a vigi - the medic may mistrust the saved mafia for a good guy. It's true that if a medic protected a mafia from a vigi hit, there would be no way to know if that target was mafia or not. But he is completely disregarding the fact that vigis can't hit on night 1. He, as an experienced player, should know this. He is also going on about how hard it is to block a hit, blabla, we all know that. Obviously this plan wasn't meant to be a "hey let's just block a mafia hit, then we have our confirmed townie!" but rather IF a medic blocked a mafia hit ON THE FIRST NIGHT, that medic would be safe to talk to the townie in question. So zeks goes on to form his confirmed townie plan based on the supposed flaws of the medic and vigi plans: On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote:
In the case that we do not get a successful block, then we should move on to another plan that I am suggesting: plan C.
c) Detective role-check
Depending on how far we get with the medic plan, we might have to consider the ultimatum which is to have a DT rolecheck someone - which would be the safest way, unless you manage to unluckily land on the godfather; then theres no way back. The chance of landing on the godfather is slim though, so I deem this the safest plan and most viable after using trying the medic plan. What a surprise! He wants a DT to rolecheck "someone" and then roleclaim "safely" to that person. Now, who could this trustable person be.. Hmm.. Maybe he should just nominate himself, since he was the one coming with the idea, that won't be suspicious at all, right? We'll get back to this later, since this is a story that continues later in the thread. What is interesting is that he mentions this in his very first post in the thread. Clearly focusing on what he thinks is the best idea, since the chance of landing on the godfather is slim. That makes the end of his election speech. The rest of it was the same things the other candidates promised, let's kill all red and use double lynches blabla. So the thread goes on, and zeks encourages people to read his election speech. He also helps the town by making an inactive list, but this is something literally anyone can do, so I'm getting the feeling that he did this to show the town that he can contribute, and to warrant voting on him. If he was the mafia candidate, why did he not get elected, or why did he not get close? I think that the mafia either waited to see if he could draw any votes (which he tried desperately by several times asking people to read his platform), or they threw him a few votes to try to start a bandwagon. Neither of the cases worked out for them, so they basically abandoned ship when it failed, that's why you didn't see him getting 6 mafia votes. I still believe that one of the election candidates were mafia, and since Jimtudor turned blue, and I so far have no reason to suspect Shikyo or JeeJee, this all adds up. On May 20 2009 02:49 zeks wrote:
To be safe I suggest we try to find clues that may point to the inactives so we can have a better shot at hitting a red. I am also supportive if we were to lynch Jayme based on clues. Captain Obvious to the rescue! Again he is "contributing" to the town by stating something we all know already. Of course we should go on clues in addition to lynching an inactive. The fact that he wanted to lynch Jayme also corresponds with the Godfather view, since he turned out to be a townie. After that, he makes his first (in my opinion) real contribution to the town, by cooking up some clues pointing to therapy. My theory is that he saw the Jayme case as sure-fire enough that he would be lynched on day 2, because he already had so many clues attached to him, that he decided to bring in someone new. This is not any evidence by itself, but therapy being a townie also adds up to the equation. Then, the medic list are being formed. zeks is placed on all of them, despite not really contributing to the town apart from running for mayor and forming a clue pattern to therapy. Good job! You had me fooled as well. I guess if there is anyone who should be accused of posting loads of fluff it should be you, not Shikyo. On May 21 2009 03:14 zeks wrote:
I just hope that the medics are listening right now and hopefully they won't deviate from the plan. Of course you would hope that, you wouldn't want the medics to protect your targets, after all. On May 21 2009 13:43 zeks wrote:
We only had two deaths tonight, softer and Jimtudor. Obviously there are only two possible scenarios:
a) Stacked hits on either softer or Jim.
b) Someone got saved.
- I think this is more likely, and in this case, I believe someone on the medic list got saved tonight. No. Obviously, you are lying. As an experienced player, you knew about the possibility that a veteran got hit, and that it would be more likely than stacking hits on softer or Jim, who basically hadn't contributed at all. If anyone were to be stacked it would have been someone like softer or Judge, or even you. Luckily, crate calls him on it instantly, so no harm done. Dun dun dun! This brings us to my punchline. The continuation of his DT rolecheck plan. + Show Spoiler [DT Rolecheck Plan] +On May 21 2009 23:52 zeks wrote:
I think the vigi plan has just too many flaws. The medic plan is viable and I really believe that someone got saved last night versus a vet taking a hit. Now, how far the town web has grown I don't know.
But if things get desperate and still nothing gets done, then we should go with the DT rolecheck. I think this is probably the safest plan but obviously has a great drawback of losing one rolecheck. I am willing to step up for examination, that is, you'd have to believe in me not being Godfather.
And so far there have been no clues against me afaik, but of course I'm not free from suspicion one bit. Should we try this? Up to you two DT's to decide. (Of course, if this does happen I hope only one of you rolechecks me) Basically this is a repeat of his plan in the election platform. He is probably correct that there are no clues pointing to him, but the mere idea of suggesting himself for this idea makes this that more suspicious. If he were to suggest the idea, then let's say, have the town vote on who they wanted to act as the mouthpiece, maybe it wouldn't be so blatantly obvious what is going on here. zeks has that much belief in the town not thinking he is the godfather that he is nice enough to step up! Aww, doesn't that get your eyes wet. So nice of him! Once again, he fooled me, but thankfully there were other more experienced players who quickly figured out the risks of his plan. chaoser, Judge, Shikyo, props to you! This is going to be the end of my behavior analysis. I could go on by talking about his consistent denial of the vigi plan, which at the moment is one of the best plans we got, but this post is lengthy enough as is.
So that's it. By sharing my case with you, I ask that zeks is removed from the medic list while we decide whether or not my case is strong enough. Hopefully we can come to an agreement before the night is over, and if needed be, he can be placed back on the list.
I am basically laying my spot in this game on the table here, if zeks turns out innocent I take full responsibility and will let you lynch me if you see it fit. But do know that I wouldn't accuse an active and experienced player without gathering what I see as plenty of proof. This is all up to you, town, what do you think of my case?
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Edit: I meant to remove the part where I said "I'm going to divide this post into three parts, in order not to flood the entire page." I was going to do that at first, but it got so long that I decided to skip it for now, and focus on behavior. Sorry about the confusion.
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I can see a lot has happened in the day i was gone... (Was my dads birthday yesterday so didn't really have time to post here).
I actually expected Jayme to be red, but i guess i am still to much of a newcommer to mafia to read people properly. He just seemed suspicious to me since he completely ignored the main clues pointed towards. But anyway lets look forward.
Something i noted while browsing the forums is as some people has mentioned clazziquai has been strangely silent, and not even voting on day 2. This seems strange to me as he has participated in past mafia games, plus he has been posting in other threads. (I noticed this morning he posted yesterday in the name my dog thread in general). He is on 4999 posts right now so he might be holding onto his 5000th post, but it still seems weird he browses and posts on the forum and doesn't do anything in this game.
So either he just doesn't care, or he is trying to hide.
Just something i noted, which i think should be remembered in case he comes out of inactivity and doesn't get modkilled.
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EPT
