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On March 19 2009 17:17 Ace wrote:
@redtooth: I wasn't going to run for Mayor if I saw good candidates. I started late and the only person that I'd back was Mr.BabyHands.
That being said, leave the Pika Chu shit alone. He shouldn't even be close to being lynched. A DT will probably check him out and figure it out from there or we'll wait for more clues. This is exactly why I said you shouldn't be in any position of power.
No idea why anyone would vote semioldguy in, good going town. so now me, Ver, Camlito, Mr.BabyHands, Versatile and other good players are left out in the cold.
Real smart.
Yet you don't say it about BC....interesting
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On March 19 2009 17:54 Pika Chu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 10:26 fusionsdf wrote:On March 19 2009 09:41 Pika Chu wrote:
I change my vote for BloodyC0bbler.
It looks like i'm going to be the first lynched. After you'll see i'm innocent i hope you will grow up and stop being so naive.
Honestly, all the "clues" and connections that point me are very very forced. How is in any way better to lynch me if you think i'm more innocent than guilty? I mean it makes absolutely no sense since you are loosing one of your own, and the purpose is to kill mafia not kill your own just because it's the only one who has some weak clues pointing to him.
And you don't even know my role, so you are risking killing a medic, or a bodyguard or a vigilante just because you have no better alternative. Basically risk loosing the game because you can't simply think outside the box and step by the first evidence you were given.
And for those telling me to find clues. I honestly don't want to blame anyone. The only thing Pyrr did was find a clue and try and force connections with someone. I'm not going to try and frame someone like it's been done on me, for the sole purpose of not wanting to be found guilty when you'll be lynching one of ours because of my "findings".
Remember guys, it's finding clues, making connections and finding the guy that is hard, not the way around. Finding the guy then making connections and finding clues is the easy way and it's the trap you've been set and most are falling into. look, I don't want you to be lynched. If you want to stay alive, why not due some clue analysis of your own? If someone is a more likely suspect than you then it makes you safer right? I should point out that the first game MTF played this came up and he was about to be lynched. We encouraged to save himself, and he did by posting amazing clue analyses. Don't get mad at us if you get lynched; its because you didnt put enough effort into keeping yourself alive. About the inactives: yes, thats also a good method to lynch on. Does anyone have a list of inactives? Look, i couldn't care less if i get lynched, it's a game and it's the first time i play it. What i do care about is that you aren't thinking. Too many of you aren't reading all the posts and are way too enthusiast when they've been given a track, they even stop questioning over it and just go with the band wagon. And the second problem is, this stupid mentality of blaming someone else. I really really hate this mentality and i believe only retarded people use this who don't have enough integrity to stand on their own feet and you are telling me to use it and find someone to blame? Seriously man what am i, a 10 year kiddo or do i look retarded to you? Now i've realized that most (which have actually voted for pyrr) aren't really looking for clues and don't even care, they are only looking for show. And sorry but i am not willing to contribute to this senseless show, i prefer keeping things simple and honest. It's exactly like politics. Some people really don't give a fuck to what they say, they just watch the show and think "man, he did blame the other one for being a pedo? this guy is cool, i'm voting for him". Take a good look at everyone who voted for pyrr, they aren't interested in reasoning but in bandwagoning the simple stuff. Throw a bone and they'll fetch it, no questions asked.
so basically: " I'm innocent, if you don't blindly believe me even though there are potential clues pointing my way, then you are doing it because you aren't thinking! I'm not even going to try and suggest someone else to lynch (with some reasoning) and I won't show I'm in any way useful to town at all! BUT YOU GUYS ARE MAKING A MISTAKE"
nice defense. Like I said, if your head is on the chopping block, and you don't properly defend yourself, its your own damn fault. I don't want you lynched because its the cool thing to do, I want you lynched because you've had multiple chances to defend yourself and refused to do so
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On March 19 2009 23:06 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +
Phrujbaz
0cz3c
Mista
Pika Chu
TruthBringer
TranceStorm
dreamflower
CynanMachae
ZaplinG
LucasWoJ
redtooth
ydg
MrBabyHands
This is the list of people that have voted for semioldguy. Of the 2 suspicious lists I'm more interested in the latter. The first list could be inactives and mafia, but the second list are all active posters. That means they have to have thought about their votes. However, with testimony from several players and semioldguy never even playing a game on the site before he somehow manages enough votes to snag a position. It's hard to tell if this is a bandwagon voting thing or mafia ploy. Regardless the only vet player sticking out on this list is Mr.BabyHands who voted for him probably because it didn't matter, or he'd rather have him in office than Pyrr. If we assume that veteran mafia would want mafia in office, we could also assume they'd have voted for Semi and we'd see more names from the 12 here. Good thing we won't use this assumption. Detectives this is probably the list you want to start role checking.
Just wanted to mention my reasoning for my place on the list of voters for semioldguy, which for me wasn't based on either bandwagon voting or Mafia ploy. When I voted (and I guess perhaps I should have waited, as I didn't realize how many candidates would come up), there were only two candidates who had done significant campaigning or had others campaign on their behalf: BloodyCobbler, semioldguy and Pyrrhuloxia. I didn't know about MrBabyHands' work in other Mafia games before, so all I had to go on with him was the MS Paint picture he posted. Memorable, but not terribly persuasive.
Of the aforementioned three candidates, I decided to vote for semioldguy because, as I saw it, he wasn't placing as much importance on trying to make a foolproof town plan based on roles, as BC was, and I thought Pyrrh's clue-analysis was stretching it for Day One clues. For the town planning, I thought semioldguy's inexperience with previous games might not have been such a disadvantage, as he wouldn't be as attached to trying to make town circles based on medics/vigilante hits/all those plans that everyone poked holes at. I also liked that he resolved not to try to lead the town, but to let the town's decisions lead his. I know what they say about politicians and campaign promises, but it didn't seem like something a Mafioso would say. If elected into office, you'd think the Mafia would be doing everything they could to run the show and misdirect the town, pointing the town's attention as far from them as possible.
So, there you have it. I understand you would be suspicious and it gives the DTs a list to work with, if nothing else. Feel free to mock my reasoning, but I did have one, and it didn't consist of someone else voting for him or my being anything but townie.
Bah. Sorry for the long post, everyone. Considering it's already practically a speech, I'll also mention that I'm working on compiling a MS Word list of everyone's profiles, quotes, etc. It's not going to be easily searchable, I know, given there's 60 (well, 59) players in this game, but if nothing else, it forces me to look more closely at the sources from which Chuiu will be drawing his clues in the future. Just wanted to mention that to show I am trying to help the town in my own way, even though I probably won't post much, being far too awed by the august company of so many revered Mafia veteran players. 
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On March 19 2009 23:38 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 17:54 Pika Chu wrote:On March 19 2009 10:26 fusionsdf wrote:On March 19 2009 09:41 Pika Chu wrote:
I change my vote for BloodyC0bbler.
It looks like i'm going to be the first lynched. After you'll see i'm innocent i hope you will grow up and stop being so naive.
Honestly, all the "clues" and connections that point me are very very forced. How is in any way better to lynch me if you think i'm more innocent than guilty? I mean it makes absolutely no sense since you are loosing one of your own, and the purpose is to kill mafia not kill your own just because it's the only one who has some weak clues pointing to him.
And you don't even know my role, so you are risking killing a medic, or a bodyguard or a vigilante just because you have no better alternative. Basically risk loosing the game because you can't simply think outside the box and step by the first evidence you were given.
And for those telling me to find clues. I honestly don't want to blame anyone. The only thing Pyrr did was find a clue and try and force connections with someone. I'm not going to try and frame someone like it's been done on me, for the sole purpose of not wanting to be found guilty when you'll be lynching one of ours because of my "findings".
Remember guys, it's finding clues, making connections and finding the guy that is hard, not the way around. Finding the guy then making connections and finding clues is the easy way and it's the trap you've been set and most are falling into. look, I don't want you to be lynched. If you want to stay alive, why not due some clue analysis of your own? If someone is a more likely suspect than you then it makes you safer right? I should point out that the first game MTF played this came up and he was about to be lynched. We encouraged to save himself, and he did by posting amazing clue analyses. Don't get mad at us if you get lynched; its because you didnt put enough effort into keeping yourself alive. About the inactives: yes, thats also a good method to lynch on. Does anyone have a list of inactives? Look, i couldn't care less if i get lynched, it's a game and it's the first time i play it. What i do care about is that you aren't thinking. Too many of you aren't reading all the posts and are way too enthusiast when they've been given a track, they even stop questioning over it and just go with the band wagon. And the second problem is, this stupid mentality of blaming someone else. I really really hate this mentality and i believe only retarded people use this who don't have enough integrity to stand on their own feet and you are telling me to use it and find someone to blame? Seriously man what am i, a 10 year kiddo or do i look retarded to you? Now i've realized that most (which have actually voted for pyrr) aren't really looking for clues and don't even care, they are only looking for show. And sorry but i am not willing to contribute to this senseless show, i prefer keeping things simple and honest. It's exactly like politics. Some people really don't give a fuck to what they say, they just watch the show and think "man, he did blame the other one for being a pedo? this guy is cool, i'm voting for him". Take a good look at everyone who voted for pyrr, they aren't interested in reasoning but in bandwagoning the simple stuff. Throw a bone and they'll fetch it, no questions asked. so basically: " I'm innocent, if you don't blindly believe me even though there are potential clues pointing my way, then you are doing it because you aren't thinking! I'm not even going to try and suggest someone else to lynch (with some reasoning) and I won't show I'm in any way useful to town at all! BUT YOU GUYS ARE MAKING A MISTAKE" nice defense. Like I said, if your head is on the chopping block, and you don't properly defend yourself, its your own damn fault. I don't want you lynched because its the cool thing to do, I want you lynched because you've had multiple chances to defend yourself and refused to do so
Now i realize my previous post had a specific target, you. You fit perfectly in my post. And you try to rephrase what i say in a way that's more convenient to your esteem.
Won't work bud. I did defend myself and not blindly like you would by blaming someone else. I did it with arguments but maybe you were too busy to read that, probably busy trying to match some other clues so i result guilty.
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I looked for arguments, you gave none. You've pointed at absolutely no one you think should be lynched.
And now when I ask you again, you dodge again. So I'll ask you yet again.
Who would you lynch instead? Where is your clue analysis?
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On March 20 2009 00:08 fusionsdf wrote:
I looked for arguments, you gave none. You've pointed at absolutely no one you think should be lynched.
And now when I ask you again, you dodge again. So I'll ask you yet again.
Who would you lynch instead? Where is your clue analysis?
See? I was right in my previous post. You only think arguments and "useful" people are those who are blaming others. I gave arguments of why those clues/connections aren't relevant.
I told you why i am not throwing the blame on anyone. Because it is too early. If you wanna find show, you won't have it with me, sorry.
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Well at least you must have a suspect, you cant believe every player is an innocent soul.
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Would like to point out that I did vote, despite what BC's list says.
On March 19 2009 13:53 nemY wrote:
What's up with the dick measuring contest guys?
Pyrrhuloxia, I have yet to cast a vote for anybody yet... but you are right.
I VOTE FOR MR.BABYHANDS
While I don't particularly like him much (at least not through what I've seen of his posts), I do think his outgoing, standoffish style decreases the likelihood of him being mafia. Most mafia members aren't as blatantly offensive as he's been, so he seems somewhat legit. Then again if he's a veteran of mafia (like Ace has said), then he definitely has an ulterior motive... just what we shall soon find out.
Btw sick hit SoG!
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On March 20 2009 00:47 Night[Mare wrote:
Well at least you must have a suspect, you cant believe every player is an innocent soul.
You're right mate, i do. But that does not mean i'm going to make it public until i have at least some weak clues connecting to it.
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Sydney2287 Posts
On March 20 2009 00:51 Pika Chu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2009 00:47 Night[Mare wrote:
Well at least you must have a suspect, you cant believe every player is an innocent soul. You're right mate, i do. But that does not mean i'm going to make it public until i have at least some weak clues connecting to it.
Actually, please do post what suspicions you might have. Worst case scenario is it promotes activity, gets people posting. The more people post the more info we have to work with for behavioural analysis. And also thread activity goes up. We've had games crippled by inactivity in the past and I think we'd all like to avoid that this time round. Obviously it's still the first day/night cycle and activity is high, let's just keep it high.
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Fusionsdf, Pikachu did indeed defend himself, he challenged the accusations directed at him directly as opposed to suggesting someone else to lynch. You know, I really don't like your suggested manner of defense. Why? Well let us say that Pikachu did defend himself in the manner you suggest. He has now accused another player of being mafia and/or deserving of being lynched. Now, according to you, this person should defend himself by presenting us with another lynchworthy person. Now it doesn't take a rocketscientist to see that such a code of conduct could very easily lead to a massive fingerpointing war. Which is exactly what we do not want.
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United States2186 Posts
Allrighty, my turn now.
First a few things to address:
Listen to Ace people. We nearly botched the elections. This game was supposed to be a smart game (and an active one!), and so far it has not been either. When the town's thinkers get killed early when medics don't protect them, I see this town competing for the 'dumbest town' award. It's hard to beat mafia 1, but hey, keep going on this track and I'm not so sure anymore.
@ redtooth- I did not run for mayor, because I believed I wouldn't be around enough these past 2 days. Indeed I missed all of Wednesday because I was out on a hiking trip. Unfortunately I also thought Ace would run, so we were in somewhat of a pickle and to add to that mrbabyhands didn't get in. Frankly I'm disgusted at a lot of the first day, but at least Pyrr did not make mayor off of Day one clue analysis, the most useless thing in the game.
RoL's inactivity is kind of bizarre, but at the same time, I'm pretty certain the mafia has been very slow in organizing. We already got one down from sheer luck (thank you SoG for not picking Pika Chu), and if we can get another quickly, we'll have two down before they even get themselves together. Mafia won't be able to recover quickly from this shock, and they won't have time to. This game is ours.
Now for the questioning of mrbabyhands....
He's good, this I assure you from playing against him one game, and it's not just because he knows irc techno stuff. You guys all know about how I found out 10 blues in BC's game by day 1 along with 2-4 misses, leading to a mafia victory despite a fast lynch. Well mrbabyhands and camlito killed 19/20 blues in 2 days. 4 I think were given to them, the rest they figured out.
I specifically asked Ace to bring him for this one along with Versatile in an effort to get good players. His analysis style is different than my own but it doesn't mean it's wrong, and some of the people questioning it look mighty suspicious. And lol@him being a smurf from sc2gg.
On this note, I bring to you all another suspect from the investigations of mrbabyhands and myself....Mandalor!
You guys have all seen mrbabyhand's first analysis of Mandalor. Mandalor's latest post is just adding fuel to the fire and I'll let him dissect that. Mandalor, however, already slipped up in an earlier post. How are you going to worm out of this now? "New104 is a bodyguard" yeah uh huh right...
Mandalor wrote: I was killed because of this [behavior analysis] when I was innocent in Ace's game while I heavily contributed for the town in Chuiu's (I think it was) 3rd game when I was mafia. (brackets + italics are my adding).
The first part is true, the second is a blatant lie. Mandalor never contributed to the town when he was mafia, and furthermore his second statement was a mafia point. Using false evidence to make a point for the mafia...I wonder.
This is Mandalor's history:
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Game 2- Mafia. Tried to fake DT, Ace tricked him in a rolecheck test and died at first lynch.
Game 3- Townie. This game he contributed quite a bit to the town with his own plan and actively debated suspects and ideas. Because of this, the mafia killed him off night 2. This is the only game where he actively contributed publically.
Ace's game- Townie. Stayed silent but was active. At the end of game 3 (before Ace's game began) he said he would be lying low to avoid being killed off early again. He fit my pattern of a previous contributer trying to hide as an inactive while being mafia, and I killed him second lynch.
Chuiu's previous aborted game- Medic. Just voted and tried to lay low so he wouldn't get killed.
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3 points against him in my own analyses:
1) He lied. His lie was trying to prove a mafia point. This point was to cast doubt on mrbabyhand's statement claiming that certain players were innocent because they were dissecting strategies. Mandalor wanted to show that mafia had contributed heavily to town strategy discussion. He just didn't realize that he couldn't use himself as an example.
2) He is attacking mrbabyhand's analyses with mafia reasoning: casting doubt on valid statements while adding nothing new.
3) He no longer fears mafia death, a direct switch from his previous 2 games as a town role.
Notice how in all of his history, he was only mafia once and in that game he died immediately after staying silent until the last minute; the complete opposite of what he claimed. I suppose it's possible that he somehow forgot that he never did what he claimed as mafia (lol).
Of course it's far more likely that he's lying because he's mafia trying to manipulate the town: after mrbabyhand's post asserting those people innocent he wants to make the town suspect those who were contributing to strategy discussion. The only reason I'd be questionable of my own logic is that it's such a huge and obvious blunder that a careful mafia shouldn't ever make. But I think his obvious motivations and the simple fact that mafia do slip up makes it a pretty convincing argument. And there's more.
As shown by the game history, when a town role, he's switched his style to that of lying low to avoid being killed early. In Ace's and Chuiu's latest game he basically didn't say anything and just voted. In this game, however, he spoke out immediately and was not afraid to make himself a possible mafia target. Maybe he got sick of staying silent early? Maybe he saw something that he alone could correct?
However, I think it's because he saw something that was true, and pointed out something bad for the mafia (mrbabyhand's statement of how the mafia weren't participating in strategy discussion). This first came to my attention because Mandalor now is speaking without fear of death. That fear of mafia death made him stay absolutely silent the previous 2 games (up until he was to be lynched). Now he's speaking freely. I wonder if he's doing this because he doesn't fear the mafia anymore hmm.
Honestly, the evidence against him is huge and the only reason we should lynch anyone else for day 1 is if they admit their guilt.
Now to attend to this other disgusting matter...
On March 19 2009 23:38 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 17:54 Pika Chu wrote:On March 19 2009 10:26 fusionsdf wrote:On March 19 2009 09:41 Pika Chu wrote:
I change my vote for BloodyC0bbler.
It looks like i'm going to be the first lynched. After you'll see i'm innocent i hope you will grow up and stop being so naive.
Honestly, all the "clues" and connections that point me are very very forced. How is in any way better to lynch me if you think i'm more innocent than guilty? I mean it makes absolutely no sense since you are loosing one of your own, and the purpose is to kill mafia not kill your own just because it's the only one who has some weak clues pointing to him.
And you don't even know my role, so you are risking killing a medic, or a bodyguard or a vigilante just because you have no better alternative. Basically risk loosing the game because you can't simply think outside the box and step by the first evidence you were given.
And for those telling me to find clues. I honestly don't want to blame anyone. The only thing Pyrr did was find a clue and try and force connections with someone. I'm not going to try and frame someone like it's been done on me, for the sole purpose of not wanting to be found guilty when you'll be lynching one of ours because of my "findings".
Remember guys, it's finding clues, making connections and finding the guy that is hard, not the way around. Finding the guy then making connections and finding clues is the easy way and it's the trap you've been set and most are falling into. look, I don't want you to be lynched. If you want to stay alive, why not due some clue analysis of your own? If someone is a more likely suspect than you then it makes you safer right? I should point out that the first game MTF played this came up and he was about to be lynched. We encouraged to save himself, and he did by posting amazing clue analyses. Don't get mad at us if you get lynched; its because you didnt put enough effort into keeping yourself alive. About the inactives: yes, thats also a good method to lynch on. Does anyone have a list of inactives? Look, i couldn't care less if i get lynched, it's a game and it's the first time i play it. What i do care about is that you aren't thinking. Too many of you aren't reading all the posts and are way too enthusiast when they've been given a track, they even stop questioning over it and just go with the band wagon. And the second problem is, this stupid mentality of blaming someone else. I really really hate this mentality and i believe only retarded people use this who don't have enough integrity to stand on their own feet and you are telling me to use it and find someone to blame? Seriously man what am i, a 10 year kiddo or do i look retarded to you? Now i've realized that most (which have actually voted for pyrr) aren't really looking for clues and don't even care, they are only looking for show. And sorry but i am not willing to contribute to this senseless show, i prefer keeping things simple and honest. It's exactly like politics. Some people really don't give a fuck to what they say, they just watch the show and think "man, he did blame the other one for being a pedo? this guy is cool, i'm voting for him". Take a good look at everyone who voted for pyrr, they aren't interested in reasoning but in bandwagoning the simple stuff. Throw a bone and they'll fetch it, no questions asked. so basically: " I'm innocent, if you don't blindly believe me even though there are potential clues pointing my way, then you are doing it because you aren't thinking! I'm not even going to try and suggest someone else to lynch (with some reasoning) and I won't show I'm in any way useful to town at all! BUT YOU GUYS ARE MAKING A MISTAKE" nice defense. Like I said, if your head is on the chopping block, and you don't properly defend yourself, its your own damn fault. I don't want you lynched because its the cool thing to do, I want you lynched because you've had multiple chances to defend yourself and refused to do so
Fusion, this is an absolutely terrible attitude to have (as is the 'vote for office based on day 1 clue analysis). Think about it logically: you are asking a player to keep himself from being killed (from an incredibly stupid accusation) by doing day 1 clue analysis. Why don't you tell him you'll kill him unless he counts how many times Chuiu rhymes? That's just as useful as what you're suggesting now.
I'll repeat it as many times as needed. Early game clue analyses suck, because that's how the system is. The clue system relies on finding patterns to match profiles, which can then be linked to players more concretely to avoid red herrings. While profile linking is harder this game because there are no codenames (yes for certain), you need the repetition to be able to avoid red herrings and clearly match people (this is why clues are important LATE GAME). Sheesh, I would think people & especially veteran players like you would know by now how useless day 1 clues were. Thankfully BC & co argued against this while I was gone so we didn't have a Mayor elected by doing something useless and we didn't make an incredibly stupid lynch. Leave Pika Chu alone, his defense has been perfectly fine because there is no evidence against him. None.
Now let's go. We purposely made certainty hard in this game, but that doesn't mean we can't rip the mafia to shreds with our thinking.
edit: I'm dumb, mafia kills this night I forgot. Whatever let's get everyone convinced so day 1 moves fast.
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If anything, right now we should try and trace RebirthofLegend back to the clues from Day 1, to see if we can get an idea of the clue posting style this round. So far I have seen nothing that would suggest RebirthofLegend has anything to do with the clues. But that could be a sign that not all mafia appear in the clues.
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WHAT THE FUCK ROFL? I hate mah job
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hahhahahaha I will take this in stride, I am not going to complian. I was inactive for the last few days because of work, I actually got up this morning intending to read the thread and post. there was like 20 pages to go through, and I kept being lazy. So I posted in like 2 other threads lmao
anyway, nice catch semi, but I wouldn't of posted regardless of my role, sorry mafia :D
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I JUST READ THAT IT WAS A RANDOM GENERATOR.
I hate you.
Edit: enjoy game guys, sorry mafiumz, I was going to be active today 
done posting from death :D
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Northern Ireland22203 Posts
LOL nice lynch, still reading up
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United States2186 Posts
Haha you should be playing silly.
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Hes the behind the scenes mafia rule enforcer, smiting players wherever they go.
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EPT
