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Just my impressions, when those units can be useful, which I got after playing, as well as watching a lot of pro videos. Feel free to correct if I am wrong.
Dark archon
Great counter to mutas: maelstorm prevents them from sniping HTs. Popular even on pro level. However DAs are almost never built for other purposes than anti-muta. Maelstorm does not work on non-zerg units, and it does not make sense to freeze anything except muts and ultras. And ultras are rarely seen in ZvP. Although it can be used on a big clump of hydras and lurkers, too.
Mind control has only single very niche use: steal SCV when protoss get maxed, to put terran on death clock timer. Does not work on pro level, though.
In theory mind control could also be used to counter shuttle drops in PvP, but games mostly end before someone can get a DA and research spell. Also it hard counters carriers and BCs, but both are not built vs protoss...
Also in theory mind contolled lurker and a reaver would be basically unkillable by dark swarm pushes, but investments are probably not worth it.
Feedback is sometimes used on defilers and high templars. Very cost efficient counter, though not popular on pro level.
Queen
Popular great counter to mech on pro level - since only pros have enough apm to micro multiple queens. Killing tanks with spawn broodlings is extremely cost efficient, because queens often survive. And there is no direct counter to them for terran (irradiates and goliaths do not kill them fast enough to save tanks, EMP needs a very lucky hit) except rushing zerg before losing too many tanks.
Spawn broodlings is also seen sometimes in very late ZvP, when protoss builds extremely well defended bases (cannons, reavers, HTs with full energy, archons). The only way to break them is super cost inefficient attacks or guardians switch. But storms counters guardians. Mutas cannot snipe HTs because of archons. So queens become a logical choice. Once HTs are gone, even if protoss can afford restarting production of corsairs, they will not be able to kill guardians before it is too late.
Ensnare is used for countering mass wraiths, if terran player`s micro is too good and wraiths are too annoying. Ensnared wraiths cannot cloak and get killed by mutas very easily.
Also rarely seen in muta wars. Spending resources on queen and ensnare instead of more mutalisks is risky, unless you already have huge army, but it pays off later: ensnaring stack of mutalisks basically guarantees a victory.
Parasite is hardly ever seen. Maybe if zerg for some reason has a queen with energy and nothing else to do, or needs to see where HTs are on super defended base in very late game.
In theory can be good vs mech, giving vision of the Terran mech army, and to put on a SV, since a SV already costs more than a queen, so for 75 energy you've either forced Terran to throw away a unit that costs more than queen or giv yourself a vision advantage.
Guardian
Guardians can be very good in very late ZvP - see above.
Also a couple of guardians can annoy protoss with probes harassing behind mineral lines, once corsairs are gone.
Sometimes guardian rush can surprise and destroy terran, since they ignore turrets due to very long range and twoshot marines. Fast guardians also can protect against siege tank pushes, at least in theory.
Devourer
Generally useless unit. In theory their acid spores are great help in muta wars, but sadly ZvZ almost never reachs hive tech.
In theory they also counter carriers+corsairs thanks to high armor and buffing mutalisks attacks, but who would build carriers in PvZ...
Ghost
Trash unit, except for very rarely seen nuke rush build or equally rare nuking of tank lines in late TvT.
In theory their lockdown is perfect counter to BCs and carriers, but cost, research time, vulnerability and most importantly micro demands result in everyone skipping ghosts.
Scout
Trash unit. They get built only to humiliate inferior players.
Infested terran
A joke, not an unit. Never seen in competitive games, the only exception was ZvP on one old weird map, which had neutral command CC, so zerg could infest it, and they were surprisingly strong in that matchup.
P.S. Imho it is a pity that arbiters are not seen in late PvZ. Cloak is annoying since it forces zerg to always have many overlords with his army (and lose them, if he is forced to retreat after the battle). Surprise recall could bypass standard sunken-lurker defense and wreck zerg tiny base with all their precious tech structures, as well as some production: late game protoss army has very high damage output. And archons or stasis on ramp would make counterattacking really hard.
P.P.S. On island maps things are different. Protoss can use DAs mind controlling shuttles, and ensnare and devourers used against corsairs. But those maps are not competitive anymore unfortunately.
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I would disagree with Devourer part, I think it is actually by design a very solid units on its own. The only reason it doesn't get used enough or very much at all is because of defiler make zerg ground units way too cost effective.
I think in some iteration of strategy that queen is almost a must in Z v T in some cases, it just does enough damage to make terran has to lift the CC then you steal it to deny them a comeback chance or basically a huge economy blow.
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I think for the longest time as a kid I try to come up with build that involves dark archon to mind control their shuttle with 2 reavers in it , LMAO, it was fun when it worked, which is very very rare, LMAO.
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The scout is a great unit imo and there are slightly viable openings with them PvZ but they're too expensive. If speed came with them or you didn't need a fleet beacon to be upgraded, they'd be used more.
DA's, Queens, and Devourers are the best underutilized units imo.
Infested Terrans are gimmick units but they would be better if they cost less and acted like Banelings where they explode and kill everything around them on death. Right now, they only do damage if they connect with their Intended target which basically renders them as useless as a unit can be.
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/cries in dweb
Maybe with all the scourge/5muta meta and turtling behind walls from Z's we'd see it more, but jesus christ, the thing is a 500/400 with beacon included, takes 125 energy and lasts only like 15 seconds - slightly longer than it takes to make one worker...
And the energy takes so long to gather, that you could start beacon after your last sair is done, and by the time the web is done, the corsair will be a few seconds away from the cast.
For contrast: dark swarm lasts 2.5x longer, has a much larger radius, is not as easy to counter as "move out of it", and is free energy-wise.
Kinda want to see a scouting corsair in at least PvT, though - you can go from nothing to corsair across the map in 1:30-ish, and it takes around 2:20+ for an obs(shuttle first scouts can be faster, this is why we see shuttle scout sometimes).
Could be used for either dweb transition later, or just the solo sair to distract turrets for the shuttle.
But fitting it in is very awkward...maybe you could delay robo/obs if very fast scouting lets you avoid having to pull back goons against possible drops, zoning out the vultures longer. But if you try to use that tempo advantage to e.g. grab a faster third, on most maps it'd still be hard for T to mine up one of the routes and use it to siege up nearby for free.
Maybe you could use it to grab a 5:30-ish 3rd on no robo vs 1 fac armory builds, but everyone is going 2 fac these days, anyway.
And you can't really deny a mine triple from Terran with this, best you'd get is an early heads up to go greedy yourself.
Fun fact: it takes comparable time to get dweb(and necessary energy) on 3 sairs, as it is to get robo -> obs -> shuttle -> reaver -> fly the slow shuttle across.
Of course, you'd still need an observer when going sairs, and sairs are almost dead weight for 4 minutes...
Wish the spell itself got a buff.
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i saw the ULTRA DEVO (HEAVY GAS UNIT + HEAVY MINERAL UNIT = COST BALANCED strong comp) combo used on artosis' stream many times
ultra wipes out ground and devo wipes out air, its the ultimate a move wombo
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On December 19 2024 09:21 G5 wrote:
The scout is a great unit imo and there are slightly viable openings with them PvZ but they're too expensive. If speed came with them or you didn't need a fleet beacon to be upgraded, they'd be used more.
DA's, Queens, and Devourers are the best underutilized units imo.
Infested Terrans are gimmick units but they would be better if they cost less and acted like Banelings where they explode and kill everything around them on death. Right now, they only do damage if they connect with their Intended target which basically renders them as useless as a unit can be.
I love scout, especially the few time people block their probe in with pylon, so they can stack scout like muta stack micro, is super cool
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On December 19 2024 09:21 G5 wrote:
The scout is a great unit imo and there are slightly viable openings with them PvZ but they're too expensive. If speed came with them or you didn't need a fleet beacon to be upgraded, they'd be used more.
DA's, Queens, and Devourers are the best underutilized units imo.
Infested Terrans are gimmick units but they would be better if they cost less and acted like Banelings where they explode and kill everything around them on death. Right now, they only do damage if they connect with their Intended target which basically renders them as useless as a unit can be.
Great unit, really? What openings are viable? Corsairs are much stronger vs zerg, and even then do not last long.
On December 19 2024 12:22 TT1 wrote:
i saw the ULTRA DEVO (HEAVY GAS UNIT + HEAVY MINERAL UNIT = COST BALANCED strong comp) combo used on artosis' stream many times
ultra wipes out ground and devo wipes out air, its the ultimate a move wombo
But ultras cannot wipe out protoss armies... And do not do much vs upgraded terran army without defiler support.
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On December 19 2024 17:26 SiarX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2024 09:21 G5 wrote:
The scout is a great unit imo and there are slightly viable openings with them PvZ but they're too expensive. If speed came with them or you didn't need a fleet beacon to be upgraded, they'd be used more.
DA's, Queens, and Devourers are the best underutilized units imo.
Infested Terrans are gimmick units but they would be better if they cost less and acted like Banelings where they explode and kill everything around them on death. Right now, they only do damage if they connect with their Intended target which basically renders them as useless as a unit can be. Great unit, really? What openings are viable? Corsairs are much stronger vs zerg, and even then do not last long. Show nested quote +On December 19 2024 12:22 TT1 wrote:
i saw the ULTRA DEVO (HEAVY GAS UNIT + HEAVY MINERAL UNIT = COST BALANCED strong comp) combo used on artosis' stream many times
ultra wipes out ground and devo wipes out air, its the ultimate a move wombo But ultras cannot wipe out protoss armies... And do not do much vs upgraded terran army without defiler support.
I think scout was viable for a while in early time, I do recall when people figure out if you jail a probe between pylon/mineral you can stack them like muta, it was used for a while. But that was so long ago, which means people were not as good as now.
Utral do wipe out protoss ground, cause it tanks so much zerglings clean floor like nothing. SC2 zerglings are so dogshit.
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On December 19 2024 18:32 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2024 17:26 SiarX wrote:On December 19 2024 09:21 G5 wrote:
The scout is a great unit imo and there are slightly viable openings with them PvZ but they're too expensive. If speed came with them or you didn't need a fleet beacon to be upgraded, they'd be used more.
DA's, Queens, and Devourers are the best underutilized units imo.
Infested Terrans are gimmick units but they would be better if they cost less and acted like Banelings where they explode and kill everything around them on death. Right now, they only do damage if they connect with their Intended target which basically renders them as useless as a unit can be. Great unit, really? What openings are viable? Corsairs are much stronger vs zerg, and even then do not last long. On December 19 2024 12:22 TT1 wrote:
i saw the ULTRA DEVO (HEAVY GAS UNIT + HEAVY MINERAL UNIT = COST BALANCED strong comp) combo used on artosis' stream many times
ultra wipes out ground and devo wipes out air, its the ultimate a move wombo But ultras cannot wipe out protoss armies... And do not do much vs upgraded terran army without defiler support. I think scout was viable for a while in early time, I do recall when people figure out if you jail a probe between pylon/mineral you can stack them like muta, it was used for a while. But that was so long ago, which means people were not as good as now. Utral do wipe out protoss ground, cause it tanks so much zerglings clean floor like nothing. SC2 zerglings are so dogshit.
There is a reason why ultralings are rarely seen against protoss. Reavers, archons, even mass dragoons murder them. And storms clear lings. Hydras are much more cost efficient that ultras.
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EPT
