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On June 08 2024 20:07 marvellosity wrote:
My bones are telling me there’s a mafia in rsoul/rayn
If this is the case Rso is an order of magnitude more likely than Rayn in a Scott/mocsta/ xxx world
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On June 08 2024 20:21 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious. If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place. And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however? New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. ‘The sentiment that I needed to post something, yes was forced’ Similar to what he said about (not) fitting in I don’t like any of it. I can follow your progression so it's valid just wrong unfortunately.
I have enjoyed the vibe the past page even though it's about me. Exclude me fine but it all feels townie including alpha.
I will respond to alpha once I finish date night so sometime before cycle. Just not now.
One caveat I will add which unfortunately doesn't help anyone is.. my reads are highly volatile and my language is much looser than how others would.use the same phrases. I totally get why alpha says I justify conclusions. In my mind I haven't concluded anything it's just the..peak of my snapshot at that point. Is what it is. Would.like to be different and personally after 6years from this game.im.surprised.myself to see that come.out.
I think I'm going to have to commit to a full re read which I really dont want to do but if alpha is actually town I want to remove that bias
Right now. If you ask me who to lymch. My strongest inclination is to sheep onto something that I can relate to which i havent yet seen but am.expecting between now and end of cycle. I reckon this will push you more scum into me but again is what it is.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On June 08 2024 20:30 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:07 marvellosity wrote:
My bones are telling me there’s a mafia in rsoul/rayn If this is the case Rso is an order of magnitude more likely than Rayn in a Scott/mocsta/ xxx world
Not doing the pre-flip thing as unbelievably I’m not arrogant enough to think I’m right about everything on d1 :p
Just my game sense telling me that.
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On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious. If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place. And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however? New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all.
There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities:
- Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way
- Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious. If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place. And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however? New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it.
He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf?
To the bolded: who exactly?
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On June 08 2024 20:33 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:30 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 20:07 marvellosity wrote:
My bones are telling me there’s a mafia in rsoul/rayn If this is the case Rso is an order of magnitude more likely than Rayn in a Scott/mocsta/ xxx world Not doing the pre-flip thing as unbelievably I’m not arrogant enough to think I’m right about everything on d1 :p Just my game sense telling me that.
You can add slam in there too somewhere I think.
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On June 08 2024 20:27 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:14 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:03 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 19:58 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well  Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Fundamentally I just think there’s so much weak sauce in there. Some of which I’ve talked about, some of which I haven’t (like p, just as a random example, taking a scott post commenting on DMB’s absence. It means nothing for Scott’s alignment either way. Obviously either alignment can make that sort of post. How has this even made it into an analysis?) I’m wary of falling into the trap that this must mean mafia. As I can understand why you have posted what you have said about him here. But meeeeeeeeeh  Maybe I'm being stupid but what I meant was more that Mocsta has provided more information with which to get a read on him, one way or another. As in, there shouldn't be many null reads on Mocsta imo, the information is there, just up to people to interpret it. I feel like his posting is polarizing, depending on how you interpret it it is solidly town or solidly mafia, but just hard to get a null interpretation. You’re not being stupid. I’m just engaging in conversation and explaining my thoughts. You don’t seem to be interested in him so I’m just talking a little about why I am Fair. I could absolutely be wrong on Mocsta, I'm happy to discuss this. Admittedly I haven't found a ton of reason to suspect Mocsta, but I could be missing things. Like, Mocsta's thought processes are very, very different from mine. To the point where some of what he says just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think this is scummy, my interpretation is that he just sees things differently than I do. I can try and look through his filter. There is a ton of info to draw from in order to have a more substantive conclusion than this one. What? Where does this come from?
I mean my view is that Mocsta is likely town. I'm trying to be open to the possibility that I am wrong, would you rather I refuse to re-evaluate?!
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On June 08 2024 20:36 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:33 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:30 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 20:07 marvellosity wrote:
My bones are telling me there’s a mafia in rsoul/rayn If this is the case Rso is an order of magnitude more likely than Rayn in a Scott/mocsta/ xxx world Not doing the pre-flip thing as unbelievably I’m not arrogant enough to think I’m right about everything on d1 :p Just my game sense telling me that. You can add slam in there too somewhere I think.
No slam is different
He can be mafia or town but doesn’t contribute to overall game sense
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On June 08 2024 20:36 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:27 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 20:14 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:03 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 19:58 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Fundamentally I just think there’s so much weak sauce in there. Some of which I’ve talked about, some of which I haven’t (like p, just as a random example, taking a scott post commenting on DMB’s absence. It means nothing for Scott’s alignment either way. Obviously either alignment can make that sort of post. How has this even made it into an analysis?) I’m wary of falling into the trap that this must mean mafia. As I can understand why you have posted what you have said about him here. But meeeeeeeeeh Maybe I'm being stupid but what I meant was more that Mocsta has provided more information with which to get a read on him, one way or another. As in, there shouldn't be many null reads on Mocsta imo, the information is there, just up to people to interpret it. I feel like his posting is polarizing, depending on how you interpret it it is solidly town or solidly mafia, but just hard to get a null interpretation. You’re not being stupid. I’m just engaging in conversation and explaining my thoughts. You don’t seem to be interested in him so I’m just talking a little about why I am Fair. I could absolutely be wrong on Mocsta, I'm happy to discuss this. Admittedly I haven't found a ton of reason to suspect Mocsta, but I could be missing things. Like, Mocsta's thought processes are very, very different from mine. To the point where some of what he says just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think this is scummy, my interpretation is that he just sees things differently than I do. I can try and look through his filter. There is a ton of info to draw from in order to have a more substantive conclusion than this one. What? Where does this come from? I mean my view is that Mocsta is likely town. I'm trying to be open to the possibility that I am wrong, would you rather I refuse to re-evaluate?!
No, I just want clarity on your reasons I guess. Because for whatever reason they are not clear to me.
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On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious. If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place. And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however? New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero?
And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree
I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though.
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On June 08 2024 20:39 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious. If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place. And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however? New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero? And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though. legend mate, bing bing bing
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On June 08 2024 20:39 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious. If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place. And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however? New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero? And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though.
Hmm. After this post I think you are biased/closed minded with this one (despite you seemingly wanting to consider other perspectives)
Presuming you are town I think you should try to genuinely reset yourself and look at it from the other perspective.
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On June 08 2024 20:41 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:39 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious.
If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place.
And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however?
New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero? And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though. legend mate, bing bing bing
You are retracting the mistake?
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Meh i think az is prob just town and rubbing me the wrong way pfft
Too collaborative with everyone despite us fundamentally disagreeing on shit
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Ahhh I can't keep up with reading or discussing at this pace on my phone  On June 08 2024 20:38 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:36 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:27 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 20:14 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:03 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 19:58 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Fundamentally I just think there’s so much weak sauce in there. Some of which I’ve talked about, some of which I haven’t (like p, just as a random example, taking a scott post commenting on DMB’s absence. It means nothing for Scott’s alignment either way. Obviously either alignment can make that sort of post. How has this even made it into an analysis?) I’m wary of falling into the trap that this must mean mafia. As I can understand why you have posted what you have said about him here. But meeeeeeeeeh Maybe I'm being stupid but what I meant was more that Mocsta has provided more information with which to get a read on him, one way or another. As in, there shouldn't be many null reads on Mocsta imo, the information is there, just up to people to interpret it. I feel like his posting is polarizing, depending on how you interpret it it is solidly town or solidly mafia, but just hard to get a null interpretation. You’re not being stupid. I’m just engaging in conversation and explaining my thoughts. You don’t seem to be interested in him so I’m just talking a little about why I am Fair. I could absolutely be wrong on Mocsta, I'm happy to discuss this. Admittedly I haven't found a ton of reason to suspect Mocsta, but I could be missing things. Like, Mocsta's thought processes are very, very different from mine. To the point where some of what he says just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think this is scummy, my interpretation is that he just sees things differently than I do. I can try and look through his filter. There is a ton of info to draw from in order to have a more substantive conclusion than this one. What? Where does this come from? I mean my view is that Mocsta is likely town. I'm trying to be open to the possibility that I am wrong, would you rather I refuse to re-evaluate?! No, I just want clarity on your reasons I guess. Because for whatever reason they are not clear to me. Main reason is that he's been present, involved, and has unique/original thoughts. Even if I disagree with some of his thoughts, or don't always see it the same way, it gives me the impression that he's trying to figure things out/solve the game.
Mafia is generally more inclined to sit back and hide amongst the thread sentiment, maybe they go against it occasionally (rarely) so it's not too obvious, but even when they do, it's generally not on a major point. Like, they'll go with the thread sentiment on all the immediate targets and have a more uncommon suspect down the line, if that makes sense.
Mocsta has not only consistently taken views that oppose the thread sentiment, but he's come up with a large amount of unique reasoning to support those views. Whether or not I agree with the reasons doesn't matter so much with respect to Mocsta's alignment, what matters most is if Mocsta himself agrees with the views. The impression I get is that he does.
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On June 08 2024 19:46 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 19:15 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 18:36 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 18:32 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 18:28 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 18:23 AlphaZero wrote:
As far as I can see the argument for not lynching Scott is
- he is lynchbait in the past ((although trfel disproved that somewhat)
- alpha is scummy and is pushing a mislyynch
- ???
Doesn't really outweigh the substantively scummy things he has done. None of those apply to me Ignoring mason neighbour thing since he has since fully dropped it Rest of filter looks like active hunting to me I don't care he buddies to me. As town or Mafia it fits how the thread has shaped. I think he pulled up some interesting posts. He has no such limited cred can't start a wagon either so that's pretty much max output he can do as a townie. Would he do that as mafia? I genuinely don't think so. This post is sus- how can you just ignore the points against him? It's like you aren't trying to discern what that means for his alignment. Even Ignoring his opening, his case against me was objectively scummy- Then you call his scumhunting a strong point. It's mind boggling stuff. scott knows about mason, and is unsure about whisperer mechanic people are conflating that in my mind.. like. i personally dont care about mason/whisperer differences, yet i dont see why someone else cannot care.. yeah its a weird post for town. i have never denied that.. BUT its early game and its not like he stood by that as activity so i dont view it scummy as a filter i dont know what else to say p.s. sorry to absolutely cripple you in pain but this post makes me feel most positive about you; enough that i would take you out of my mayor lynch category and back into normal lynch. some used to refer to my town game as "moc-logic" and you just stumbled into it What about the post is meaningful for determining my alignment. What part can only come from mafia? its the heuristic about 'moc-logic'. i really dont expect you to get it cos of the history aspect.
its ummm.. the utter confusion which you later articulate in your "case" on me, about too bad to be town, yet too bad to be mafia.
in the past, only town have been willing to consider what it means, so its a noteworthy thing to me
when you talk about what can only come from mafia, i'm going to assume you mean something i wrote in that response could only be from mafia? in that case, you are wrong by default. if i hazard a guess its that i took you from mayor lynch to normal lynch?
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On June 08 2024 20:26 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:16 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 20:08 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Why do you think it’s good to talk about me when I’m clearly not a day 1 lynch? Is it not the exact same situation as alpha zero? One and a half differences. One difference: I brought legit reasons to talk about. Not random suspicions and paranoia and spookies. Half difference: not being able to figure out your alignment, especially having such a dramatically different take on it than everyone else does, is driving me insane. Your legit reasons are random spookiness to everyone else as you can see it hasn’t gained any traction. So again I ask, what’s the difference? Your main point was that alpha zero wasn’t a day 1 lynch so he shouldn’t be discussed No, no, that's not how this works. Reasons can be good or bad, random spookiness isn't a bad reason, it's no reason, it's fearmongering. I've said this like five times now. One more. I don't want to discuss someone if all of the following are true: 1. near a lynch deadline 2. the person in question is extremely unlikely to be lynched 3. there are no actual reasons presented to suspect the person. Note that this is very different from bad reasons. Once again, and for the last time, all three things have to be true. As you can see this with AlphaZero, I didn't want to discuss him when there were no reasons. As soon as Mocsta posted his reasons, I discussed it with him, and I would be happy to continue discussing based on those reasons. I don't get how this is so hard to understand?
Damn 1-3 are all true for what you think about me.
If 3 isn’t true then surely you can quote some posts that I made right?
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On June 08 2024 20:39 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious. If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place. And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however? New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero? And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though.
No no no. They did not say the same things.
Commenting on your early posting is different from what/how they are commenting about.
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On June 08 2024 20:45 rsoultin wrote:
Meh i think az is prob just town and rubbing me the wrong way pfft
Too collaborative with everyone despite us fundamentally disagreeing on shit
Why do you sound disappointed by that?
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On June 08 2024 20:50 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:45 rsoultin wrote:
Meh i think az is prob just town and rubbing me the wrong way pfft
Too collaborative with everyone despite us fundamentally disagreeing on shit
Why do you sound disappointed by that?
THe final 6 words I imagine
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