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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16175 Posts
i do not think Turing's contributions to Math and Computer Science were that important. software became prevelant in the early 1970s. The quality of life in NA has not improved since ~1973. In place throughout the world where the quality of life has improved... computer software was not relevant. There is a math thread and a programming thread. We can discuss Turing in either of those threads if you wish. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland22950 Posts
On February 18 2024 08:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i do not think Turing's contributions to Math and Computer Science were that important. software became prevelant in the early 1970s. The quality of life in NA has not improved since ~1973. In place throughout the world where the quality of life has improved... computer software was not relevant. There is a math thread and a programming thread. We can discuss Turing in either of those threads if you wish. Are you fucking serious? This is preposterous | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2431 Posts
Before you engage further, know that interacting with Jimmy can feel like interacting with an ADHD fever dream. Things you thought were points earlier were never actually meant, and at some point you'll end up talking about a wrestling game from 1980 that you've never heard of, and the CEO of gearbox. How do any of these things connect? Dunno. Fever dream. | ||
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FriedrichNietzsche
92 Posts
Also as he pointed out which is actually his only valid and correct point this isnt the topic to discuss this to begin with. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland22950 Posts
On February 18 2024 09:12 Fleetfeet wrote: Before you engage further, know that interacting with Jimmy can feel like interacting with an ADHD fever dream. Things you thought were points earlier were never actually meant, and at some point you'll end up talking about a wrestling game from 1980 that you've never heard of, and the CEO of gearbox. How do any of these things connect? Dunno. Fever dream. If it weren’t so aggravating to engage with I would find his ability to crowbar completely off-topic stuff genuinely impressive on some base technical levels | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16175 Posts
On February 18 2024 09:05 WombaT wrote: Are you fucking serious? This is preposterous if you want an in depth discussion about Turing this is not the place for it. computer science has rocketed forward and is millions of times better than it was 40 years ago. human life quality has not improved. life span is about the same and quality of life is about the same. i can talk about Turing all day long in the math thread. | ||
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FriedrichNietzsche
92 Posts
On February 18 2024 09:56 JimmyJRaynor wrote: if you want an in depth discussion about Turing this is not the place for it. computer science has rocketed forward and is millions of times better than it was 40 years ago. human life quality has not improved. life span is about the same and quality of life is about the same. i can talk about Turing all day long in the math thread. "?" | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland22950 Posts
On February 18 2024 07:41 Gorsameth wrote: I see he is trying to Republican tactic of saying the quite part out loud. No one should be surprised by the notion that Israel is perfectly happy keeping the war going indefinitely or sacrificing all the hostages so long as it prevents a Palestinian state. Indeed, seems to me the question is at what point Israel will level off this current campaign, and under what conditions? And it’s not as if the appetite to deal conclusively with Hamas is going to dissipate once the hostage situation is dealt with. I can’t see any kind of Palestinian state being on the table for decades, best case scenario. It’s less saying the quiet part out loud, more stating the bleeding obvious. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43447 Posts
On February 18 2024 07:56 JimmyJRaynor wrote: It is tough to compare someone like Turing to Trudeau. He was all theory. Math and Computer Science ain't that important. Lesson #1 is ... there does not have to be a "solution". You can trundle along just fine without one. I can confirm that this is wrong. There is a big difference between saying "Turing is/isn't the greatest mind of the 20th century" and "Math isn't that important." Anyways: Math -> Algebra -> Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi -> Muslims -> Arabs/Palestine/Jews/Israel -> Hey we're back on topic again! | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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FriedrichNietzsche
92 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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FriedrichNietzsche
92 Posts
Also I partly disagree. There are certain "conspiracy theories" that definitely have merit to look into. JFK is one. Whoever believes the "OG narrative" definitely did not look into it enough. It also shows that despite what people think there definitely are "unknown" / "hidden" powers with extreme might & influence in basically every sphere.. Well tl;dr: I dont get your response. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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FriedrichNietzsche
92 Posts
I just wrote that it would worry me when/if China started to get more active in terms of geopolitical action. What is contentious/weird about that? I really dont understand you. I feel like you want to just be contentious for the sake of it. I really don't get you. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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FriedrichNietzsche
92 Posts
I did not say it has anything to do with China? Dude you honestly lack simple reading comprehension. One last time: This topic is ofc also about geopolitics. I just in a side sentence wrote that I would be worried if China got more active. Nothing more nothing less. Like I am at the point of getting an urge to be insulting. But I will stay calm and ask one more: What is your problem with my post? I did not say it has anything to do with China. I just literally wrote what I wrote. So TL;DR for you again: I dont like escalating stuff (vs Iran e.g.) & I would be worried when/if China started to be more active geopolitically. (I honestly feel like you might be psychotic. As in you literally think everything is aimed at you & a challenge).. One last time. All I wrote was: I dont like things escalating in regards to Iran. I would be worried if China started getting geopolitically more active. What is your issue? | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Cerebrate1
265 Posts
On February 16 2024 23:56 ChristianS wrote: I mean, skimming through this Wikipedia page it looks like “Palestinian” is an ethnic identity and nationalist movement that first started bubbling up in the 19th century but became particularly pronounced following WW1. Ya know, the same timeline a huge number of ethnic identities and nationalist movements in Europe followed. In fact, wasn’t Zionism on a pretty similar timeline? If that’s accurate, Cerebrate saying people didn’t identify as Palestinian in 1948 is wrong. But more than that, it seems motivated by a desire to imply Palestinian is not a “real” identity (much the same way Russia likes to do with Ukrainians). I mean, I agree that Cerebrate is a respectful and thorough poster and I’m glad he’s here, but that seems worth calling out, no? Edit: Yeah okay, I went and read that one too. TL;DR is basically “Palestine was just a name used by Roman or British conquerors, the local people never thought they were anything but Arabs.” So yes, quite explicitly pushing the “not a real identity” angle. I mean, I’m not particularly well-versed on the history of Palestinian nationalism but even a quick googling reveals stuff like a series of Palestinian Arab Congresses held following WW1 trying to decide what “Palestinian” means and advocate for political autonomy. That’s exactly the kind of thing Germans or Italians or Hungarians were up to in the 19th and early 20th centuries as nationalism became the organizing principle of the world. Seems like it’s as “real” an ethnic identity as any other to me! To clarify my stance on national identity, I basically agree with what you and WombaT said that people basically make up their own identity. So the Arabs of the region of Israel/Palestine are certainly "Palestinians" now. You'll note that I, in fact, do call them Palestinian when referencing them in posts related to more recent time periods. The question is when they developed that identity as a unique and separate group of Arabs, distinct from other Arabs in the region. The first time they started referring to themselves as "The Palestinians" from my understanding is with the advent of the PLO in the 1960s as part of an effort to contest Israel's claim to land outside of the West Bank and Gaza. The fact that they were apparently happy under Jordanian and Egyptian rule does indicate, that even at that point they didn't see themselves as distinct from those other Arab groups. The PLO were quite successful in spreading this Palestinian identity, and, regardless of the original intent of creating it, that identity has developed much since then. As for the local Arabs prior to the formation of the PLO, if you had gone back in time and asked them what they were, they would each have answered either "Arab" or "Muslim." They lived within the region called "Mandatory Palestine" by the British, so they might have said they were from "Palestine", but no more so than Jews living in the region would have. Various references to "Arabs of Palestine" are talking about a group of people living in a place. There are similar references to the "Jews of Palestine," but that does not mean that those Jews identified as a nation of "Palestine." In fact, the fact that all the groups back then were called "the X of Palestine" (B'hai, Druze, Armenians, etc), is actually proof that there were many groups within Mandatory Palestine and that none of them had exclusive claim to the term "Palestinian." As for your link, a cursory read seems to support the conclusion that the nationalist vibe of Arabs in that time and place was something like this: The borders drawn by the French and British were arbitrary and dumb. The whole Levant is really one giant Arab territory and we want to reunite with our other bretheren into one big Arab super country. The fact that individual groups in what would be Jordan, Syria, and Israel/Palestine all came to similar conclusions, is not a demonstration that those groups had distinct national ambitions. Quite the opposite. It's clear that they felt they were one contiguous people and British borders had nothing to do with their national identity. This is from your link: The resolutions of the Jerusalem Congress were as follows: "-We consider Palestine nothing but part of Arab Syria and it has never been separated from it at any stage. We are tied to it by national, religious, linguistic, moral, economic, and geographic bounds."[5] -Rejection of French claims to the area -"Our district Southern Syria or Palestine should be not separated from the Independent Arab Syrian Government and be free from all foreign influence and protection"[6] -All foreign treaties referring to the area are deemed void -To maintain friendly relations with Britain and the Allied powers, accepting help if it did not affect the country's independence and Arab unity It was decided to send a delegation to Damascus and representatives attended the Syrian National Congress in Damascus on 8 June 1919[7] "to inform Arab patriots there of the decision to call Palestine Southern Syria and unite it with Northern Syria" | ||
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Cerebrate1
265 Posts
On February 16 2024 23:44 Nebuchad wrote: So, obviously many many people who support Israel have a very distant view of what the conflict looks like and aren't intentionally deceptive about their beliefs, they just don't know any better because they are uninformed, or misinformed. Once you know the facts, in terms of morality everything is extremely simple. The very notion that it's complex and that people disagree because of the moral complexity of what's happening is already cringe. Also Shaun's video on Palestine is out on Patreon, I'll post it here as soon as it's public. I usually don't know as much about the topics that he covers so this time I didn't learn as much as usual. I didn't know that in the 1980s Biden was so pro-Israel murdering civilians that Reagan and the Israeli prime minister of that time had to distance themselves from him, that's one thing I learned. Still the skull man is good, and it's good to have a cohesive 1h30' piece about this, I'm glad it exists. Listen, I'm not going to rehash the whole conflict with you. If you don't think things like freeing hostages from Hamas or preventing Hamas from committing another Oct 7th on the people of southern Israel at least adds moral complexity to the situation (and the fact that Israel had no intention of doing any of this until those factors were on the table), then we have very different systems of morality that we believe in. Regardless, your claim was that I was a liar. The proof you bring as evidence goes something like this: 1. Cerebrate1 is intelligent (I do appreciate this part, thanks) 2. Cerebrate1 disagrees with some stance/point of Nebuchad (it's not entirely clear which stance of yours you are saying I disagree with, so you aren't leaving room for us to resolve our differences here) 3. No intelligent person could possibly disagree with this [unspecified] stance of Nebuchad (a pretty high bar of morality for whatever this stance is) 4. Therefore, Cerebrate1 must actually agree with Nebuchad, but he is claiming that he does not because he is a liar. Without delving too deeply into your proof, it's worth noting that you chose not to use a much more straightforward proof that I was a liar. That is, you could have provided examples from my hundreds of posts here that I had actually intentionally lied. Which really gets back to a point I made earlier about Ad Hominem attacks, which is that they are logically irrelevant. That is, even if you do believe me to be a liar in general for whatever reason, as long as each individual post I make is accurate, it doesn't really matter. | ||
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