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On August 11 2023 06:12 JimmiC wrote:
Out of curiosity and if you are too busy no worries, have the sanctions impacted what products you can get? Or any shortages?
Is there (non essential even) products you used to enjoy that you can no longer get or had that not really changed? What I know is that people with health problems and pets are affected.
Some drugs are not available anymore (or hard to get), especially for serious complex deceases. My ex-wife has cancer (poor human being, she got it when she was 19) and for some time she was on a western medicine which seemed to help better than local stuff. After the war started this treatment became unavailable so now she has to use local medicine which works but not as good and has more side-effects.
My mom is 57 now and goes to pharmacies more often than before, in her case I'd say it's 20-30% of her drugs that became unavailable - not critical but not good either.
And choices of food/drugs for animals are also more limited now, i.e. if you want your pet vaccinated against rabbies it will be hard to get a good vaccine with lesser chance of side effects and better protection.
Less choice in high quaility pet food too.
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Russian Federation240 Posts
On August 11 2023 04:02 JimmiC wrote:
I’m confused by this, if you trusted the Russian news media wouldn’t you have thought this war would be over in a week? Would you have not invested in the Russian currency and Russian companies and been early worse off?
And what are you invested in that you lost so much or did you just crystallize them by pulling and staying out. The Dow for example was at around 33k and is now 35k?
How does believing that Russians were doing a one week denazification help with your investing?
I get most people (including most governments including the Ukrainian ones) thought Russia was just posturing and they were not. But had you trusted them how would have all the times they were posturing and their comments since helped? I’m certain they wouldn’t.
This is like some weird hindsight is 20/20 thing where I think I should have invested in Netflix because I “knew” rentals were dying and streaming was the new thing and then changing your whole belief in news media and the shadowy group behind it all?
Those are some huge leaps you have made or you have left out a whole bunch of details.
-i've pulled out at ~50% loss to the start of the year; the russian MOEX index had been very volatile at that time. Since then I just keep money in cash (its stupid, but I kind of burnt out). -I was not sure of "one week" or anything similar; this whole thing was a tremendous shock.
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Russian Federation592 Posts
On August 11 2023 06:12 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2023 06:00 Ardias wrote:On August 11 2023 05:36 JimmiC wrote:On August 11 2023 05:18 Ardias wrote:On August 11 2023 04:27 Erasme wrote:Are you not just describing different shades of black ? Like you said, they all support the war.. The only distinction is wether they support putin or not. I suppose those who don't support putin is bc they feel he didn't go hard enough ? If i wanted more information on Karkusha-Z, should i search on telegram ? Is it this one + Show Spoiler + ? To be clear to Ardias, i think you're probably the most honest russian poster in this thread and i find your posts always very informative, thank you for that On Karkusha-Z, you are correct. He is former Wagner contractor in Africa, now he is a drone operator in 200th Arctic brigade (with "Karkusha" being reference to a crow in a popular Russian kids TV show). On the other matters - I deliberately pointed out pro-war channels specifically, to show that there is vast difference of opinions even on seemingly the same side (up to putting those in disagreement to prison). As of "going not hard enough" - it differs. Prigozhin before the mutiny claimed the war unnecessary and the doing of oligarchs in Russia. Strelkov wished for total mobilization and wiping out Ukraine totally. Morozon (aka "Murz") was pushing hard on LDPR, and then on Russian army corruption and unwillingness of Kremlin to enter in 2014. Some people, like deceased Vladlen Tatarsky (who is actually from Donetsk, his real name is Maxim Fomin) were actively pushing for peace and understanding with Ukraine back in 2018-2020, and thus got ton of shit from the radical part of the LDPR milita. As I say, there are a lot of different groups even in pro-war faction. Even if they are appear the same for the Western observer. And thanks for the compliments, I like to have civil and deep discussions even if the conflincting opinions are very strong, which is often the case here. Though it takes a lot of time and effort (these three posts took me around two hours, that's why I'm rarely posting here), and I understand why a lot of people do not keep up with that. On August 11 2023 04:42 JimmiC wrote:On August 11 2023 04:24 Ardias wrote:
About "Russian media" as a whole - I've tried for more than a year to make this thread understand that "Russian media" do not revolve around Solovyov, Kiselyov, Simonyan and other TV 1st Channel talking heads, though to no avail I guess. Even if we discard pro-Western ones like Meduza, Novaya Gazeta, MoscowTimes etc. there are ton of different opinions in the media, especially in Telegram media, which has already become the main Russian internet media platform (after Youtube started to vigourously shut down Russian pro-war channels last year).
There are loyalists to Kremlin like Kadyrov (who is also regularly pushing his own agenda as the leader of islamic people in former CIS and beyond though) or aforementioned Solovyov.
You have remnants of Prigozhins media empire, who is still unclear, if they are still heroes of Motherland or traitors of it,
You have Girkin (awaiting trial atm), Morozov, Grubnik and other remnants of Dobass militia who did still believe in Novorossiya since 2014 and actively shit on Putin for abandoning them back in 2014 and corrupting Russia into failed state now.
You have open Nazis like DSHRG Rusich.
You have mild Russian nationalists like Norin.
You have communists like Interbrigades 2022.
You have simple boots on the ground like Karkusha-Z, or deceased Misha on Donbass or Arni Firefighter with their own opinions on the matter.
They are all supposed to be, by the general presumption of this thread, a single mass flocking behind Putin, but they are very different, even though all of them are strongly anti-Ukraine at the moment. Some of them even took a toll for it from Kremlin (like Girkin being under arrest). I get there are many voices but are they not all bound by rules on what opinions they can have in regards to the war as well as about Putin? Like here there is a literal “f*ck Trudeau” cottage industry, they sell hats, shirts, bumper stickers, mud flaps and so on. There is voices that suggest we should not give aid, or there is lots of Nazis in Ukraine and Russia is the last stronghold of macho men and so on. None of these people are at threat of government persecution. The main news sources do not have those (like TV news or the CBC) but that is not because they can not it is me cause there are rules in Canada about news being required to have proof. The US does not have those which is why you can Fox and more so newsmax but even CNN with all the editorializing. But even there you have basically a pro democrat station and a pro republican station. What we are saying is there is no impartial Russian news source because if they even criticize Putin or his choices let alone the war the consequences are dire. It is not the number of sources or the different angles that they come at that matters, it is that the message NEEDs to be what the government wants or else.
We have rules on the fairness of media, which is true of most western democracies and then the US attempts to accomplish this by having competition and profit create a market for all opinions (with some pretty major drawbacks) it is not remotely the same as what you experience. Girkin, Morozov, Grubnik, Montyan, Mangushev (deceased in conflict with Wagner), Gubarev etc. - there were a lot of bloggers (I'm posting the most renowned, but there are more) did openly shit on Putin, some of them did have concequences (like Girkin), others didn't. It could be the case that they are on the frontline, but a lot of them don't, and even those that are often get off there to get new drones, comms, optics etc. If FSB wanted them dead - they would be dead. But they don't. Not yet at least, even though they were telling the same things for years before the war. If you are interested, you could go through some of these channels, though it's hard to find necessary posts without knowing Russian: https://t.me/strelkovii - Girkin https://t.me/wehearfromyanina - Morozov https://t.me/ghost_of_novorossia - Grubnik https://t.me/bulbe_de_trones - Tereschuk, Russian nationalist from Belarus (I actually had few chats with him some years back in one of the military VK groups). As for the competition of the media - to be fair, nobody was banning Dozhd, Novaya gazeta, Meduza etc. before the war either. So the alternative opinion did exist, though it had issues going on the TV screen, that's true. It's after the war, when everyone took some kind of side, they were blocked out. These ones were pro-Western, and most of them had been finded from different kinds of Western fund, so in confrontation with global West it's understandable they would be restricted. Western countries did the same to Sputnik and RT, after all. I’ll spend some time tonight. Correct if I’m wrong but are their complaints not all that Russia should be doing more not that they should not be in the war? Here no matter the conflict you can always read about why we should not be involved. It is generally the stronger sentiment, and grows as there are more wounded and KIA. We have, in my lifetime, not had very large numbers of those but even the cost of peacekeeping and the soldiers mental health is reason enough for many. Part of why I am disbelief that there is not a strong anti war sentiment being suppressed is it makes no sense to have people who have lost so many not be against it, let alone the economic impact. If you look at the US there is people who blame it for minor gas price changes or what have you and sentiment changes and is reported on. There is just no way a democratically elected leader who got a country into a war which is at best a hugely expensive stalemate losing and injuring huge numbers of their own and would be hugely popular. 90%+ popularity does not happen in the good times when it’s real. If we take the "radical Novorussians" part - their main complaint is that 1) Russia didn't go in full force to support the rebellion back in 2014, which could bring the swift end to the conflict back then: 2) Arranged and signed Minsk agreements, which a lot of LDPR militia considered stab in the back, fearing that they would be pushed back in Ukraine: 3) Treated Ukraine as partner with different economic deals etc. in 2015-2021 period helping to build their economy up, while at the same time... 4) ... stagnating the Russian Army, not preparing it for actual war, while Ukraine did do just that. TLDR they aren't happy with the current stalemate and WW1-style trench warfare, and would like the situation to be resolved swiftly. Just with black-blue-red banner over Slavyansk. If we take more mild. but still nationalistic Russians - a lot of them regret that war has started, and certainly not happy with how it's happening. Not happy with the government including. But in the war you either for or against, and in the question if they should be with Russians or with Ukrainians in the matter, most of those, of course, choose the former. Socialists/internationalists/communists are in a more difficult spot in that regard. It depends generally who they view as more nationalistic, Russian government or Ukrainian. Individualists (and I'll remind you, a lot of Russians are quite collectivists by mindset) are, of course, mostly anti-war, some for moral reasons, some - because they lose benefits of globalizations, and some fear they could be drafted. Differs from person to person. On August 11 2023 05:51 maybenexttime wrote:On August 11 2023 05:34 Ardias wrote:
Weren't you implying for a while that most of the Russians are supportive of their government and therefore fascists as well? That kinda makes your current point moot.
How does it make it moot? If Russians by majority are fascists, how come media with Western views is pro-Russian? For that either majority of Russians should be democratic or the said media should be with fascist views. Which one is that? Thanks again for taking the time to post and for the info. I’ll make my way through some of those bloggers tonight and through the weekend. I do really appreciate the posting from you because to me it feels like the actual Russian opinion or at least an actual Russian opinion minus the sensationalism. Out of curiosity and if you are too busy no worries, have the sanctions impacted what products you can get? Or any shortages? The closest comparison I have is when I was young it was before free trade between us and the US and when I would go cross border they would have way more options of products with to me the variety of snacks being amazing. Now we have basically everything they have, if anything there is products they want from here but can not get. It even at the start of Covid we had certain supply chain issues which impacted different stuff. Is there (non essential even) products you used to enjoy that you can no longer get or had that not really changed?
Pleased to have civil conversation as well.
As for sanctioned stuff - nothing particularly of importance. The necessary products (food, drinks, stuff for bathroom, kitchen and cleaning, clothes etc.) went up somewhat in price during last year and a half, but nothing too damaging. Had to do some cuts on regular cafe visits though towards homemade food, but that's also because I'm currently trying to save money.
Can't comment too much on prices for more expensive stuff since I did not follow regulary cars, PCs and such. Shops are full of different stuff at least. Though I know building materials and property prices did went up substantually, that I checked. I bought my 43 sq m apartments three years ago for 2,7 million rubles, now it would cost around 4 million (there was a rapid price growth after sanctions). In dollars difference isn't that big, 37 500 in May 2020 vs 42 000 now, but salaries in Russia aren't based on ruble-to-dollar exchange, so that was a hit. Though again, it's my city, which is kinda expensive due to being well to the north. For that money in Krasnodar you could afford yourself a proper house twice as large (though their salaries are sorta lower as well).
Can't buy games on Steam, but I've been more and more busy with IRL stuff lately, so didn't lost much. You still can buy them by elaborate way through Kazakhstan and such, for a bit bigger price.
No travel to Europe ofc, but I wasn't much of a traveler, and if I will, there is still a lot of stuff in Russia and former CIS to visit. Don't have enough free time for SEA, I think you need at least two-three weeks of free time to go there, concidering lenghty and pricey flights.
All in all - for me and my surrounding there is little that actually changed in day-to-day life. But that's a perspective of a non-consumerist Russian from a provincial city, others could have different opinions.
Edit: Zerobyte added some stuff I missed. Some complex medicine indeed in short supply, had a friend with clinical depression issues who had to switch from French stuff to Russian one with more severe side effects. Though stuff for general illnesses is still in place, albeit more pricey.
On August 11 2023 06:13 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2023 06:00 Ardias wrote:
If Russians by majority are fascists, how come media with Western views is pro-Russian? For that either majority of Russians should be democratic or the said media should be with fascist views. Which one is that? The two are unrelated. By pro-Russian I mean having Russia's best interest in mind. They have a different view on what's best for the country. The Kremlin is driving Russia of a cliff. People opposing the Kremlin's imperialism and colonialism are trying to save the country. It's really not that hard to grasp.
You said that Russians love strong fascist leaders, so how people actively working against said leaders are for these people, if they are working against something Russian people love?
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On August 11 2023 06:42 Ardias wrote:
All in all - for me and my surrounding there is little that actually changed in day-to-day life. But that's a perspective of a non-consumerist Russian from a provincial city, others could have different opinions. I can second this from what I hear from people I know.
If you liked to travel to EU - it's worse.
If you were well-integrated into global sphere in general - subscriptions to western services, working with western customers - it's worse, of course.
If you have specific serious problems with health - it's worse now.
If you want to buy an appartment or a car - they're significantly more expensive now from what I heard.
Most people didn't travel to EU anyway and didn't work with foreign customers, and of course most don't have these specific health issues that are affected the most.
Significantly increased appartment and car prices are probably the most noticeable changes but even then people don't buy cars every year and especially appartments. Crisises when everything got more expensive happened in Russia at least 3-4 times in last 20-25 years, so people are more used to it, I guess, it doesn't feel like a shock to them.
E.g. if you ask my parents, they'd say that not much changed for them, they have more reasons for worries, but that's it more or less.
If you ask a young professional with good English who worked or planned to work for European company... well, it's different.
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On August 11 2023 06:42 Ardias wrote:
You said that Russians love strong fascist leaders, so how people actively working against said leaders are for these people, if they are working against something Russian people love?
Because the Kremlin is actively ruining the country to enrich Putin and his clique. It's also killing and maiming countless Russian men. Putin is driving the country off a cliff. The fact that most Russians support this course of action doesn't mean it's in the country's and Russians' best interest.
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On August 11 2023 01:22 Uldridge wrote:
Let me ask you guys a question.
What criteria need to be met before you take something that zeo, a_ch posit seriously?
Do only your sources need to verify/report it?
I'm happy to believe Zeo on some things. For instance, I'll believe him that that rather outlandish claim from a random telegram account was disinformation from a troll farm. His evidence seems fine and discrediting the source means the claim is either true and the people wanting to convince me it's true can find a better source, or the claim is false, and better sources don't exist, but Zeo convinced me not to believe the random telegram account.
I also take all his posts seriously, even the ones I consider total bullshit. Unlike waffles, who could tell me that Maru won 7 GSLs, and I'd call bullshit on it just because he claims it, despite knowing that that claim is true. a_ch is somewhere in the middle.
E: confused two different posters. I'm sorry, kitten, I take most of what you say at face value!
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On August 11 2023 07:06 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2023 01:22 Uldridge wrote:
Let me ask you guys a question.
What criteria need to be met before you take something that zeo, a_ch posit seriously?
Do only your sources need to verify/report it?
I'm happy to believe Zeo on some things. For instance, I'll believe him that that rather outlandish claim from a random telegram account was disinformation from a troll farm. His evidence seems fine and discrediting the source means the claim is either true and the people wanting to convince me it's true can find a better source, or the claim is false, and better sources don't exist, but Zeo convinced me not to believe the random telegram account. I also take all his posts seriously, even the ones I consider total bullshit. Unlike kitten, who could tell me that Maru won 7 GSLs, and I'd call bullshit on it just because he claims it, despite knowing that that claim is true. a_ch is somewhere in the middle.
Maru has won 7 GSLs.
Source: liquipedia.net
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On August 11 2023 08:16 JimmiC wrote:
Do you have the ability to get all the ingredients as before? How about finished snacks? Selection might be worse in luxury sector but what most people buy in their day-to-day life didn't change much.
I'm living in Sweden now - local grocery stores have more stuff, and my wife says there's significantly more choice, but it was that way before the war too. And I lived in a provincial city, mind you. So sanction don't seem to change much in that area at least.
On August 11 2023 08:16 JimmiC wrote:
I’m not a huge fan of the US’s system but when you look at some of say the Scandinavian countries that are close to you like Finland for example. What is it about their system that is worse than the Russian one? For me when I look at their “package”(can not think of a better word). Everything seems better, from healthcare to education to freedom. I'm not against Western democracies, I'm living in one now.
So, comparing to Sweden - many services are better in Russia, especially if you're middle class or close to it. Much cheaper and quite better at the same time.
1. From my wife's words, manicure / pedicure and stuff like that is both much, much more expensive here and provides significantly less options at the same time.
2. Delivery service here is laughably bad compared to Russia. It looks like in Russia they really don't want to lose you as a customer, and here they barely care.
3. I heard many stories from colleagues that it's hard to get to doctor without waiting for months unless you feel really bad. Swedish healthcare seems to be overloaded and understaffed now. My colleagues say they usually don't even bother trying to get to doctor - it will take forever and won't help much.
In Russia I'd be able to get to most doctors the same day or maybe next one, and it's not that expensive for middle-class. But this is private healthcare sector which almost doesn't exist in Sweden as far as I know.
4. Public transport between cities seems to be more developed in Russia, but I might be wrong - I didn't travel much back in Russia, and I don't travel often here. Just a first impression.
My colleague (who also moved to Sweden from Russia) travels more often and complains a lot.
5. Getting your documents in order as an immigrant takes a few days, maybe a week in Russia - and a few months here in Sweden. And without those documents you can't do much - rent an appartment, have broadband internet, etc.
Of course, many other things are better here in Sweden - but not everything and not even 80-90%.
There are many services/areas here that are not as good/developed as they are in Russia, at least in my eyes.
Still I like it here more because... you know... reasons.
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Zurich15300 Posts
On August 11 2023 05:34 Ardias wrote:
I do not pretend to be omnicient, and my knowledge of foreign language besides English is limited to readable and somewhat understandable Ukrainian, somewhat readable Polish and barely readable German, so I'm not on top of opinions going around there. In Germany AFAIK the Spiegel is generally more in line with big 7 I've listed above and DW is often seen as yellow press and they have a reputation of posting some negative stuff about UA and the West in this conflict.
Just picking out this one thing because I found that confusing. By DW do you mean Deutsche Welle (The German foreign language channel(s))? Because they are most certainly not considered yellow press by anyone. And with regards to Ukraine are publishing some of the best German-sourced reporting.
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Polish President Andrzej Duda, one of Kiev’s most ardent foreign backers, has predicted that Ukraine’s counteroffensive against Russian forces will likely fail. Duda, like his counterpart in Kiev, claimed that even more Western weapons were the answer.
“Does Ukraine have enough weapons to change the balance of the war and get the upper hand?” Duda asked the newspaper in an interview published on Thursday, before answering, “Probably, no.”
“We know this by the fact that they’re not currently able to carry out a very decisive counteroffensive against the Russian military,” he continued. “To make a long story short, they need more assistance.”
Ukraine launched its long-awaited counteroffensive against Russian forces in early June, assaulting multiple points along the frontline from Zaporozhye to Donetsk Regions. However, the Russian military had spent several months preparing a dense and multi-layered network of minefields, trenches, and fortifications, which the Ukrainian side has thus far failed to overcome
Advancing through minefields without air support, Ukraine’s Western-trained and NATO-equipped units have suffered horrendous casualties, losing 43,000 troops and 4,900 pieces of heavy weaponry in just over two months, according to the most recent figures from the Russian Defense Ministry.
Polish President Andrzej Duda, one of Kiev’s most ardent foreign backers, has predicted that Ukraine’s counteroffensive against Russian forces will likely fail. Duda, like his counterpart in Kiev, claimed that even more Western weapons were the answer.
Recent media reports suggest that Kiev’s Western backers knew that Ukraine wasn’t ready to go on the offensive, but encouraged the operation nonetheless. Duda was among those cheerleading the counteroffensive, declaring in early June that the operation would lead to “the ousting of Russian military forces from all occupied territories.”
Like Duda, Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky now blames his forces’ lack of success on the West, claiming that Ukraine did not receive enough munitions, weaponry, or training to succeed. Zelensky and his senior officials have repeatedly asked the US and its allies for F-16 fighter jets, long-range missiles, and anti-aircraft weaponry, claiming that this equipment will reverse Ukraine’s losing streak on the battlefield.
Moscow has repeatedly urged the West to stop “pumping” weapons into Ukraine, warning that continued military aid will only prolong the conflict and inflict more destruction upon Ukraine, without changing the final outcome.
Time to pack it in boys.
Poland to occupy Western Ukraine? It seems to be what they're gearing up for, could also just be posturing. Time will tell.
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United States41404 Posts
Your theory is that Poland is aggressively advocating for more weapon systems to be given to Ukraine as a precursor to their plan to invade Ukraine.
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On August 11 2023 13:49 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2023 05:34 Ardias wrote:
I do not pretend to be omnicient, and my knowledge of foreign language besides English is limited to readable and somewhat understandable Ukrainian, somewhat readable Polish and barely readable German, so I'm not on top of opinions going around there. In Germany AFAIK the Spiegel is generally more in line with big 7 I've listed above and DW is often seen as yellow press and they have a reputation of posting some negative stuff about UA and the West in this conflict.
Just picking out this one thing because I found that confusing. By DW do you mean Deutsche Welle (The German foreign language channel(s))? Because they are most certainly not considered yellow press by anyone. And with regards to Ukraine are publishing some of the best German-sourced reporting.
Germany revoked RTs broadcasting license (because of the misinformation they spread, you might have heard about it) and eventually banned the channel, so they targeted and banned DW in Russia. There is some lighter content on DW, but no one regards it as yellow press.
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@captain
@Kwark
Moreover, we have given them most of ours T-72s, BMP-1s, Su-s, MIG-s, some Leos, a sizeable part of our Krabs, Rosomaks, Raks, Pioruns and a ton of other equipment. Some of our units are desperately lacking equipment. All in preparation for incoming invasion of Ukraine. Soon (TM).
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Those were actually Trojan Krabs, full of bioengineered HATO supersoldiers ready to jump out and occupy Western Ukraine. They're just waiting for the right moment.
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On August 11 2023 16:35 Sent. wrote:
Those were actually Trojan Krabs, full of bioengineered HATO supersoldiers ready to jump out and occupy Western Ukraine. They're just waiting for the right moment. As everyone can see here - it's not even a secret anymore.
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On August 11 2023 10:24 ZeroByte13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2023 08:16 JimmiC wrote:
Do you have the ability to get all the ingredients as before? How about finished snacks? Selection might be worse in luxury sector but what most people buy in their day-to-day life didn't change much. I'm living in Sweden now - local grocery stores have more stuff, and my wife says there's significantly more choice, but it was that way before the war too. And I lived in a provincial city, mind you. So sanction don't seem to change much in that area at least. Show nested quote +On August 11 2023 08:16 JimmiC wrote:
I’m not a huge fan of the US’s system but when you look at some of say the Scandinavian countries that are close to you like Finland for example. What is it about their system that is worse than the Russian one? For me when I look at their “package”(can not think of a better word). Everything seems better, from healthcare to education to freedom. I'm not against Western democracies, I'm living in one now. So, comparing to Sweden - many services are better in Russia, especially if you're middle class or close to it. Much cheaper and quite better at the same time. 1. From my wife's words, manicure / pedicure and stuff like that is both much, much more expensive here and provides significantly less options at the same time. 2. Delivery service here is laughably bad compared to Russia. It looks like in Russia they really don't want to lose you as a customer, and here they barely care. 3. I heard many stories from colleagues that it's hard to get to doctor without waiting for months unless you feel really bad. Swedish healthcare seems to be overloaded and understaffed now. My colleagues say they usually don't even bother trying to get to doctor - it will take forever and won't help much. In Russia I'd be able to get to most doctors the same day or maybe next one, and it's not that expensive for middle-class. But this is private healthcare sector which almost doesn't exist in Sweden as far as I know. 4. Public transport between cities seems to be more developed in Russia, but I might be wrong - I didn't travel much back in Russia, and I don't travel often here. Just a first impression. My colleague (who also moved to Sweden from Russia) travels more often and complains a lot. 5. Getting your documents in order as an immigrant takes a few days, maybe a week in Russia - and a few months here in Sweden. And without those documents you can't do much - rent an appartment, have broadband internet, etc. Of course, many other things are better here in Sweden - but not everything and not even 80-90%. There are many services/areas here that are not as good/developed as they are in Russia, at least in my eyes. Still I like it here more because... you know... reasons.
Can confirm pretty much these from my own experience.
Also sanctions are pretty much useless but they do start to affect prices, but nothing impossible.
And you can really see that until there is a large mobilisation that start picking city kids, city kids try to fly under the radar having soft opinions about the war as you have no benefit risking having an opinion. Like Ardias said, even factual posting about war can be seen as anti-russian. While same facts are seen by us as pro-war.
Russia is a culture that westerners don't understand.
Like we have seen in this thread, Slav culture does not deal in absolute. Having a history of 100 year of communist make truth a questionable concept, and why not, if the leaders can chose their own truth, who am I to question that.
Also Russian have a great fear of disorganisation, that's the reason why communism ended up in such a quiet way and a new leader was accepted etc... That's the reason you don't see a revolution.
Russians are very well educated, the big difference with French people for example is that there is no improvisation or thinking outside the box. Unless it is needed for basic functionality and survival, then there is a lot of imagination on how to repair something or get materials to do stuff.
The most simple way to think like a russian is to think 1. Things could get worse if we try to do something about it. 2. It is someone else job to think.
Be it as weird as it may, this appeals to some westerners as well, many dictatorships have existed in Europe as well, and they were no so easy to get rid of. We can see in this forum that no everyone is able to conceive all these ideas as it get complicated and we are not all born equal in education and IQ but we have equal right to write in forums.
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On August 11 2023 17:04 0x64 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2023 10:24 ZeroByte13 wrote:On August 11 2023 08:16 JimmiC wrote:
Do you have the ability to get all the ingredients as before? How about finished snacks? Selection might be worse in luxury sector but what most people buy in their day-to-day life didn't change much. I'm living in Sweden now - local grocery stores have more stuff, and my wife says there's significantly more choice, but it was that way before the war too. And I lived in a provincial city, mind you. So sanction don't seem to change much in that area at least. On August 11 2023 08:16 JimmiC wrote:
I’m not a huge fan of the US’s system but when you look at some of say the Scandinavian countries that are close to you like Finland for example. What is it about their system that is worse than the Russian one? For me when I look at their “package”(can not think of a better word). Everything seems better, from healthcare to education to freedom. I'm not against Western democracies, I'm living in one now. So, comparing to Sweden - many services are better in Russia, especially if you're middle class or close to it. Much cheaper and quite better at the same time. 1. From my wife's words, manicure / pedicure and stuff like that is both much, much more expensive here and provides significantly less options at the same time. 2. Delivery service here is laughably bad compared to Russia. It looks like in Russia they really don't want to lose you as a customer, and here they barely care. 3. I heard many stories from colleagues that it's hard to get to doctor without waiting for months unless you feel really bad. Swedish healthcare seems to be overloaded and understaffed now. My colleagues say they usually don't even bother trying to get to doctor - it will take forever and won't help much. In Russia I'd be able to get to most doctors the same day or maybe next one, and it's not that expensive for middle-class. But this is private healthcare sector which almost doesn't exist in Sweden as far as I know. 4. Public transport between cities seems to be more developed in Russia, but I might be wrong - I didn't travel much back in Russia, and I don't travel often here. Just a first impression. My colleague (who also moved to Sweden from Russia) travels more often and complains a lot. 5. Getting your documents in order as an immigrant takes a few days, maybe a week in Russia - and a few months here in Sweden. And without those documents you can't do much - rent an appartment, have broadband internet, etc. Of course, many other things are better here in Sweden - but not everything and not even 80-90%. There are many services/areas here that are not as good/developed as they are in Russia, at least in my eyes. Still I like it here more because... you know... reasons. Can confirm pretty much these from my own experience. Also sanctions are pretty much useless but they do start to affect prices, but nothing impossible. And you can really see that until there is a large mobilisation that start picking city kids, city kids try to fly under the radar having soft opinions about the war as you have no benefit risking having an opinion. Like Ardias said, even factual posting about war can be seen as anti-russian. While same facts are seen by us as pro-war. Russia is a culture that westerners don't understand. Like we have seen in this thread, Slav culture does not deal in absolute. Having a history of 100 year of communist make truth a questionable concept, and why not, if the leaders can chose their own truth, who am I to question that. Also Russian have a great fear of disorganisation, that's the reason why communism ended up in such a quiet way and a new leader was accepted etc... That's the reason you don't see a revolution. Russians are very well educated, the big difference with French people for example is that there is no improvisation or thinking outside the box. Unless it is needed for basic functionality and survival, then there is a lot of imagination on how to repair something or get materials to do stuff. The most simple way to think like a russian is to think 1. Things could get worse if we try to do something about it. 2. It is someone else job to think. Be it as weird as it may, this appeals to some westerners as well, many dictatorships have existed in Europe as well, and they were no so easy to get rid of. We can see in this forum that no everyone is able to conceive all these ideas as it get complicated and we are not all born equal in education and IQ but we have equal right to write in forums.
When you grow up in a highly oppressive environment, wherever that may be (home, country, church, etc.), you have every reason to learn to lie and keep your head down as a means to protect your physical and mental health and to live a life worth living, as well as to protect those close to you. In Russia this mentality spread through the generations and became a way of life. This is why it's the most corrupt country in Europe, because that's how people survive. In North Korea the black market helps people survive the oppression. In Russia it's very similar.
This is why I'm always so quick to defend Russians who fall for propaganda and lies from the Putin regime. While some consider it a moral failing in all or most cases, I certainly don't. I see it as a necessary answer to the overwhelming political threat.
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On August 11 2023 05:34 Ardias wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2023 05:10 Dan HH wrote:
@Ardias Semi-related to the current topic, I'm curious, did you ever stop yourself from posting something you had typed out (or thought of posting) because it might be interpreted as "denigrating the armed forces" and potentially get you in trouble?
Edit: I don't necessarily mean here, anywhere on the internet in general No, though I generally don't have a habit to throw offensive language in internet dialoge (well, I could go on a wild rant IRL sometimes, but that's another story), so I've never considered myself in some kind of danger of being persecuted for (you saw above what kind of posts I generally do, if I have time). After all, Putin encouraged fair critique of the Armed Forces after mobilization, hue  Though on Russian forums where I post I often have a reputation of pro-Western/pro-Ukrainian, similarly as I viewed here as pro-Russian, and had myself warned/banned/had my posts removed a few times, as potentially violating the current laws about discrediting an Army. Hard to have some middle-ground during the war, after all. Show nested quote +On August 11 2023 05:16 KobraKay wrote:
I wont pretend to know what the information/media state is in Russia so cannot comment on that.
But someone that uses "western media" expression the same way you guys use "russian media" explain to me what the western media is?
Do you want to say US media? Because the notion that the "west" news outlets are some sort of collectivity or group bound by the same policies/restrictions is so foreign to me that I cannot really understand how do people see it as a fact, unless they are really talking about US media and all the people/posts that rely on that. Maybe that is just it. Well, the "big 7" (I'll probably use that term) I would consider The Guardian, Reuters, WP, Bloomberg, BBC, NYTimes and CNN. At least these are coming on top when I'm looking for some kind of Western perspective (English-based though, ofc) in Google. I know Fox and Newsweek (I know I might mix TV channels with Internet media, but give me some rope in that) are considered non-mainstream ones. I also know that Daylimail and the Sun (if we talk about UK) are often considered yellow press, but they generally post with the same attitude as big 7 listed above. I do not pretend to be omnicient, and my knowledge of foreign language besides English is limited to readable and somewhat understandable Ukrainian, somewhat readable Polish and barely readable German, so I'm not on top of opinions going around there. In Germany AFAIK the Spiegel is generally more in line with big 7 I've listed above and DW is often seen as yellow press and they have a reputation of posting some negative stuff about UA and the West in this conflict. Show nested quote +On August 11 2023 05:25 maybenexttime wrote:
Dozhd, Novaya Gazeta or Meduza, etc. are not pro-Western. They pro-Russian. They just happen to have a different view of what Russia should be, which is at odds with the fascist mainstream. Weren't you implying for a while that most of the Russians are supportive of their government and therefore fascists as well? That kinda makes your current point moot.
Thanks for the reply regarding the "western media". So its pretty much US+big ones from the UK. Rest assured, those are not the may source or even that followed accross the EU let alone everywhere to the west of you guys.
Even if those 7 would work in tandem, most countries tend to look into their local stuff before even going beyond that. So if you are facing too many internet debates with people just basing themselves on those, those people do not represent the general view of the people "outside". They are probably just easier to quote for groups that want to communicate in english and are already within that bubble.
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On August 11 2023 17:35 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2023 17:04 0x64 wrote:On August 11 2023 10:24 ZeroByte13 wrote:On August 11 2023 08:16 JimmiC wrote:
Do you have the ability to get all the ingredients as before? How about finished snacks? Selection might be worse in luxury sector but what most people buy in their day-to-day life didn't change much. I'm living in Sweden now - local grocery stores have more stuff, and my wife says there's significantly more choice, but it was that way before the war too. And I lived in a provincial city, mind you. So sanction don't seem to change much in that area at least. On August 11 2023 08:16 JimmiC wrote:
I’m not a huge fan of the US’s system but when you look at some of say the Scandinavian countries that are close to you like Finland for example. What is it about their system that is worse than the Russian one? For me when I look at their “package”(can not think of a better word). Everything seems better, from healthcare to education to freedom. I'm not against Western democracies, I'm living in one now. So, comparing to Sweden - many services are better in Russia, especially if you're middle class or close to it. Much cheaper and quite better at the same time. 1. From my wife's words, manicure / pedicure and stuff like that is both much, much more expensive here and provides significantly less options at the same time. 2. Delivery service here is laughably bad compared to Russia. It looks like in Russia they really don't want to lose you as a customer, and here they barely care. 3. I heard many stories from colleagues that it's hard to get to doctor without waiting for months unless you feel really bad. Swedish healthcare seems to be overloaded and understaffed now. My colleagues say they usually don't even bother trying to get to doctor - it will take forever and won't help much. In Russia I'd be able to get to most doctors the same day or maybe next one, and it's not that expensive for middle-class. But this is private healthcare sector which almost doesn't exist in Sweden as far as I know. 4. Public transport between cities seems to be more developed in Russia, but I might be wrong - I didn't travel much back in Russia, and I don't travel often here. Just a first impression. My colleague (who also moved to Sweden from Russia) travels more often and complains a lot. 5. Getting your documents in order as an immigrant takes a few days, maybe a week in Russia - and a few months here in Sweden. And without those documents you can't do much - rent an appartment, have broadband internet, etc. Of course, many other things are better here in Sweden - but not everything and not even 80-90%. There are many services/areas here that are not as good/developed as they are in Russia, at least in my eyes. Still I like it here more because... you know... reasons. Can confirm pretty much these from my own experience. Also sanctions are pretty much useless but they do start to affect prices, but nothing impossible. And you can really see that until there is a large mobilisation that start picking city kids, city kids try to fly under the radar having soft opinions about the war as you have no benefit risking having an opinion. Like Ardias said, even factual posting about war can be seen as anti-russian. While same facts are seen by us as pro-war. Russia is a culture that westerners don't understand. Like we have seen in this thread, Slav culture does not deal in absolute. Having a history of 100 year of communist make truth a questionable concept, and why not, if the leaders can chose their own truth, who am I to question that. Also Russian have a great fear of disorganisation, that's the reason why communism ended up in such a quiet way and a new leader was accepted etc... That's the reason you don't see a revolution. Russians are very well educated, the big difference with French people for example is that there is no improvisation or thinking outside the box. Unless it is needed for basic functionality and survival, then there is a lot of imagination on how to repair something or get materials to do stuff. The most simple way to think like a russian is to think 1. Things could get worse if we try to do something about it. 2. It is someone else job to think. Be it as weird as it may, this appeals to some westerners as well, many dictatorships have existed in Europe as well, and they were no so easy to get rid of. We can see in this forum that no everyone is able to conceive all these ideas as it get complicated and we are not all born equal in education and IQ but we have equal right to write in forums. When you grow up in a highly oppressive environment, wherever that may be (home, country, church, etc.), you have every reason to learn to lie and keep your head down as a means to protect your physical and mental health and to live a life worth living, as well as to protect those close to you. In Russia this mentality spread through the generations and became a way of life. This is why it's the most corrupt country in Europe, because that's how people survive. In North Korea the black market helps people survive the oppression. In Russia it's very similar. This is why I'm always so quick to defend Russians who fall for propaganda and lies from the Putin regime. While some consider it a moral failing in all or most cases, I certainly don't. I see it as a necessary answer to the overwhelming political threat.
Yes, but also you will notice that the most vocal defenders of the politics and the war are usually outside Russia, and that makes very little sense, except for Zeo who was bombed as a child by NATO so being anti-NATO and seeing them as the ultimate power that rules the world makes sense given that most country that helps Ukraine are NATO members (But many are not)
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EPT
