EPTSC2 Power Rank: March 2019 - Page 4
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Mahanaim
Korea (South)1002 Posts
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dw.Justify
Germany34 Posts
On March 08 2019 07:55 Nakajin wrote: A 9 month power rank kind of deffy the purpose, players almost never keep the same skill on that long a time. And on that note. Maru has not won anything since september how is he suppose the strongest and second strongest player in the world. If he win WESG or GSL sure, but someone who has only two top 8 in his last 3 tournaments can't seriously be called the best in the world right now on the basis that he was dominant in that other tournament 6 months ago. He might win his next tournament but that will need him to play much better than what he showed us in the last half year. I kind of want to disagree with soO at the top, but let's give the man his god damn no1. There are not that many major tournaments. if you only want the last 2-3 month for the ranking you only have mb 1 tournament. I mean than the ranking is only IEM kattowice, even world finals is now 4 month ago. So you should atleast take the last 4 major tournaments were all the koreans and possible most foreigners played. Also the skill of a player that is reached doesnt decline if someone stays active, there is just the possibility thatz someone has some bad month, unlucky tournaments but still even the Top 3 sc2 players cant win all tournaments or make it alwways to the RO4. The best 20 players of the world are all around 7000 mmr, means if they face each other chances per game are close to 50 %. The way to beat someone in a bo3,bo5 is than beeing a slightly bit better what wwould mean mb 200-300 mmr in the ladders so you get mb a 55-60 % chance win per game, combine this with a good tournament mindset, good strategic prepreation, and mb some luck and you can have a 75 % wining chance in a bo3, when you take for example Maru vs Clasic or so. But still a tournaments has like 5-6 rounds so you can easly be elimanted in Round 1 or 2 in a tourney even if you are serral or maru when u face the top 20. So 1 -2 tournemantes for a power rank is just stupid. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15828 Posts
On March 08 2019 09:09 dw.Justify wrote: Also the skill of a player that is reached doesnt decline if someone stays active, then what happened to Rogue after Katowice? To Inno after 2017? To Dear after 2013? To Creator after 2012? The list goes on and on... | ||
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1669 Posts
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Duceman
United States87 Posts
9-10. Trap and Dear. They’re both really solid, in good form, and dangerous opponents, but they apparently can’t beat herO in PvP. Look for one of these two in GSL Ro. 4. Solar is in the same boat with expectations but he bombed out of GSL. 8: Leenock bombed out of GSL, but came back with a great showing at Katowice, first out of the most dangerous part of the open bracket with Cure, Fantasy, and sOs, with Namshar and Mana in there as well. Beats Maru in the group stage and was one baneling away from 2-0ing Dark which would have made him advance. 7. Maru. Three-time reigning GSL champ, still looks dominant in that environment, still a favorite for WESG as the reigning champion. Terrible Katowice. 6. RagnaroK, no one thought he’d get out of the open bracket at Katowice (especially after witnessing his GSL Ro. 32) and is all of sudden in the round of 12 through the group of death. 5. Neeb. Doing excellent at WCS Winter, a Ro. 8 at Katowice, after winning the EU qualifier, Neeb is in good shape. Nothing specifically all that impressive, but Neeb is super tough to beat right now. 4. Astrea. Didn’t expect to see him make it through his round of 32 group. Beats JonSnow. Didn’t expect him to beat TIME or Kelazhur. 4-0’s his group. Dropped one map so far in NA Apprentice Season 2 after winning season 1. We’ve got another excellent North American protoss on our hands, it seems. 3. Serral. He’s been dominating in WCS Winter. He’s shown some weakness against terran recently, but he’ll likely still win WCS Winter, brought the champion to an ace game at IEM, and is a favorite for WESG. 2. herO. Scarlett is a dogged, tough opponent that people thought could beat a slumping herO. Nope, he beats her twice in GSL and rides his excellent PvP to a semifinals at Katowice. 1. soO, you start to dismiss him and he wins IEM. Damn, what a guy. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On March 08 2019 09:09 dw.Justify wrote: There are not that many major tournaments. if you only want the last 2-3 month for the ranking you only have mb 1 tournament. I mean than the ranking is only IEM kattowice, even world finals is now 4 month ago. So you should atleast take the last 4 major tournaments were all the koreans and possible most foreigners played. Also the skill of a player that is reached doesnt decline if someone stays active, there is just the possibility thatz someone has some bad month, unlucky tournaments but still even the Top 3 sc2 players cant win all tournaments or make it alwways to the RO4. The best 20 players of the world are all around 7000 mmr, means if they face each other chances per game are close to 50 %. The way to beat someone in a bo3,bo5 is than beeing a slightly bit better what wwould mean mb 200-300 mmr in the ladders so you get mb a 55-60 % chance win per game, combine this with a good tournament mindset, good strategic prepreation, and mb some luck and you can have a 75 % wining chance in a bo3, when you take for example Maru vs Clasic or so. But still a tournaments has like 5-6 rounds so you can easly be elimanted in Round 1 or 2 in a tourney even if you are serral or maru when u face the top 20. So 1 -2 tournemantes for a power rank is just stupid. Of course you get worst, (or at least other get better if you want to say it in Artosis term) staying active, Meta change, the game get patch, style get's figure out ect... Neeb won Kespa cup off his pvp and now he can't win one to save his life. And at some point you need to win some of the time to be the best in the world, saying Maru is the best in the world right now would be like saying soO was a favorite for GSL season 2 on the back of his Blizzcon run even tho he was mediocre in the months prior. And one loss is understandable, but saying that the best in the world can't come out of a groupe with Leenock-Neeb-Lambo and Trap is hard to swallow, sure if it was one time like let's say Classic getting kick out of GSL in 2014 or Stat's this year sure, but for the last months it has happen more often then not. Not saying that you should not take into consideration his pass results at all, it at least prove that he has the potential to do great thing, and I think he has in place at least in the top 10, but not in first, not when guys like Serral, Stats and even Dark have pretty much the same average results or better since GSL season 2 and got better results closer to the actual power rank. Also you have soO at 5 and before Katowice he has done jack shit since GSL season 2, he doesn't have a single round of 8 appearance and was pretty bad online all year long, if you rank every tournament the same no way he get higher then Classic, TY or even like Zest. | ||
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bela.mervado
Hungary366 Posts
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Waxangel
United States32980 Posts
On March 08 2019 11:08 bela.mervado wrote: typo/repeated word at "He’ll even have the opportunity for revenge to take revenge on both Dark and herO in the RO16 of Code S." ? Thanks! | ||
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Starcloud
137 Posts
On March 08 2019 08:10 Russano wrote: Not in agreement with this ranking as much as I usually am. Gumiho: Agree with Uthermal, would probably shift him out of the top 10. The final 10th spot could be any number of people. Trap: I'd have him at 8. Trap is consistently high on the ladder at 6800-7k MMR. He's a hella strong protoss but his PvP is very medium and it feels like he's consistently ending up in groups with multiple protoss. One of these days he's gonna get a lucky bracket and pull a high finish. Dear: I think the novelty/nostalgia of seeing Dear being moderately relevant again is weighting him too highly. His GSL/IEM performance was roughly equivalent to Trap's but with less overall consistency in the last year. I'd probably have him at 9 or 10. TY: My impulse was to say he should definitely be higher, but then I looked at everyone above him and thought that the power rank placement was about right. TY has been consistent as hell for the last year+ and has easily been the number 2 (and even number 1 sometimes) Terran. In light of that I would bump him a spot above herO. herO: Hero reminds me of a drunk toddler on a tightrope with the way he plays sometimes. His play looked shakier than anyone's in the top 10 sometimes but the beauty and strength of hero's playstyle is that he forces his opponent to play way worse than usual by making games weird and scrappy. As much as I love seeing him play, I think his luck has been high recently in some of these wins and the fact that he's played mostly pvp which is his best matchup. His unit control and engagements are insanely good and his builds are creative and innovative but he makes bizarre strategic decisions sometimes that hold him back. Maru: Agree with 5th. He's looked vulnerable since Blizzcon but teamkills are weird and I'm stilll surprised he fell this many spots considering previous dominance. Dark: I would move to number 3. He's been consistent as all hell and has proved himself as the best zerg in Korea. He shows up in the semi-final of basically every tournament, he just can't seem to beat The other top zergs or Stats when it matters. Stats: Oh how I love you Stats. Protoss perfection for games on end and then medium attacks that just don't quite get there. His series vs Dark was a thing of beauty and I thought it was going to continue with IEM looking like it was his tournament to win, alas. His defensive style is the way I aspire to play Protoss. It's a pursuit of "playing the game perfectly" with scouting, proper responses, macro, and great control. Unfortunately that style always leaves you with vulnerabilities as nobody plays quite that well all the time. Protoss also seems to have some inherent inconsistent fragility as a race. This is why Stats is routinely 6500 on ladder, when Innovation is routinely 7k, and why "Online Stats" exists. I'd move him up to number 2. Serral: Serral continues to play fin-nominally. Although he made some uncharacteristic mistakes at IEM. He should still be the clear number 1 for this power rank. He won his group, only dropping a magnificent series to Innovation, that either could have won. (Remember that Inno is a 7k player and consistently on top of the ladder and who sometimes still randomly shows games that makes him look like the Old Inno - who was arguably the best player of all time). The series he lost vs soO was the best series of the tournament. soO played out of his mind, and felt practically perfect with no mistakes and that still only made him equal to Serral who seemed sloppier than usual. Remember that Serral gave away a win by just move commanding his army into Soo's, lost a game to one of those "lose 25 zerglings to 1 baneling" and a 3rd game that came down to soO having like...2...roaches at the end. Even in losing Serral looked strong, and if you are considering other recent results he should be a clear number 1. Soo - he's definitely placed higher than he should be. It's understandable given the storybook ending for him, but it's definitely coloring his placement. I would have him at number 4. He was 2-3 in group. TWO and THREE. That got Maru bumped from number 1 to number 5. That's not the performance of a number 1. He then managed to avoid his worst matchup because Terrans all choked. He played an amazing series vs Serral and Stats (and punked on Zest and her0 - paragons of protoss consistency /s) 1 tournament is not enough to go from zero to hero. He has been in great form though and may be able to put up some more results with confidence restored. I'd place him at number 4, and even at number 5 depending on how much you weight Maru's non IEM/SoS performance. This is 100% what I feel too. Good review. Cant understand how Serral still isnt nr. 1 with these results. | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
Also, I know there are good arguments for why Serral is the strongest but I think there are also good arguments for soO being the strongest player since he beat (convincingly too) Serral and Stats, who are the other two best players. If we can say that Serral was the best primarily based on his ZvZ and ZvP, then I think we should be allowed to say the same for soO (admittedly Serral had very few opportunities for ZvT but I think we can agree that Serral mainly fought Korean protoss/zerg in 2018). I do agree that it feels regrettable, perhaps even unjust, that Serral was not number one in any power ranking but I think everyone knows he was clearly the best player in the world near the end of 2018 so there's some consolation in that. Edit: I also agree with Maru's low placement. He hasn't impressed in the past few months. Lost to INnoVation in IEM qualifiers and after this IEM performance, I feel like putting him at 2nd or 3rd would be over-valuing his past results. | ||
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franzji
United States580 Posts
On March 08 2019 13:45 Anc13nt wrote: I agree with soO being #1 since I think Power Rank should be based mainly on a combination of present form and tournament results.That is why in BW they ranked EffOrt as number 1 after he defeated Flash. If we were just going off raw skill, the Power rankings would be too repetitive to be interesting. That doesn't mean it's wrong to always say Flash is the best, or similarly, Serral is still the best but I just think that Power rankings would be a lot less interesting if the only criteria was raw skill. Also, I know there are good arguments for why Serral is the strongest but I think there are also good arguments for soO being the strongest player since he beat (convincingly too) Serral and Stats, who are the other two best players. If we can say that Serral was the best primarily based on his ZvZ and ZvP, then I think we should be allowed to say the same for soO (admittedly Serral had very few opportunities for ZvT but I think we can agree that Serral mainly fought Korean protoss/zerg in 2018). I do agree that it feels regrettable, perhaps even unjust, that Serral was not number one in any power ranking but I think everyone knows he was clearly the best player in the world near the end of 2018 so there's some consolation in that. Edit: I also agree with Maru's low placement. He hasn't impressed in the past few months. Lost to INnoVation in IEM qualifiers and after this IEM performance, I feel like putting him at 2nd or 3rd would be over-valuing his past results. Sorry but you argument does not prove the conclusion you are trying to make. "I agree with soO being #1 since I think Power Rank should be based mainly on a combination of present form and tournament results." soO went 2-3 in groups stages barely advancing to the main stage on map score. If you think that's a "good result" I would rethink what you are trying to say. Bunny and Dear should have been players he could beat if he is truly "the best" player right now, even TY. soO's other recent accomplishments include: - going 0-4 in his gsl season 3 ro32 group, losing to Special and Keen. - a 3-4 placement in gsl season 1. (at the start of 2018, but that doesn't really count as recent does it?). - not making it to blizzcon writers are just soO fanboys it seems, I don't see the hype. shame on them. | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On March 08 2019 14:09 youngjiddle wrote: Sorry but you argument does not prove the conclusion you are trying to make. soO went 2-3 in groups stages barely advancing to the main stage on map score. If you think that's a "good result" I would rethink what you are trying to say. Bunny and Dear should have been players he could beat if he is truly "the best" player right now, even TY. soO's other recent accomplishments include: - going 0-4 in his gsl season 3 group, losing to Special and Keen. - a 3-4 placement in gsl season 1. (at the start of 2018). - not making it to blizzcon writer is just a soO fanboy it seems, I don't see the hype. I think we have different definition of what recent means evidently, since you are pulling results from a year ago. By recent, I was thinking of the current month or the past month (since Power ranks are often made on irregular monthly basis). By that metric, it's hard to argue soO isn't number one since he won the only "recent" tournament and his form is top 3 for sure. That said, you can say Serral deserves to be #1 since there hasn't been a PR in months so Blizzcon results should be accounted. Although I disagree with this point, it is a fair one. I guess what I'm trying to get to is that people should complain about the PR criteria instead of claiming some sort of fanboying/bias on the part of the writers. Also, I didn't say that soO was the strongest player. I said you could make the argument that he was. I agree he didn't look convincing in group stages but beating Stats and Serral (the other two best players) convincingly should be good arguments in his favor. Especially since Serral had like an 11-8 map score while soO had 25-13 map score and Stats had 24-8 map score. Really, if we're going off map score alone, Stats was clearly the scariest player in the tournament out of the three and Serral clearly had the weakest performance out of the 3. It's interesting to me that no one considered Stats as being the best player at the moment. | ||
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franzji
United States580 Posts
On March 08 2019 14:29 Anc13nt wrote: I think we have different definition of what recent means evidently, since you are pulling results from a year ago. By recent, I was thinking of the current month or the past month (since Power ranks are often made on irregular monthly basis). By that metric, it's hard to argue soO isn't number one since he won the only "recent" tournament and his form is top 3 for sure. That said, you can say Serral deserves to be #1 since there hasn't been a PR in months so Blizzcon results should be accounted. Although I disagree with this point, it is a fair one. I guess what I'm trying to get to is that people should complain about the PR criteria instead of claiming some sort of fanboying/bias on the part of the writers. Also, I didn't say that soO was the strongest player. I said you could make the argument that he was. I agree he didn't look convincing in group stages but beating Stats and Serral (the other two best players) convincingly should be good arguments in his favor. Especially since Serral had like an 11-8 map score while soO had 25-13 map score and Stats had 24-8 map score. Really, if we're going off map score alone, Stats was clearly the scariest player in the tournament out of the three and Serral clearly had the weakest performance out of the 3. It's interesting to me that no one considered Stats as being the best player at the moment. The article says at the top, we've updated our criteria a bit in 2019 to focus more on the big picture than just the past calendar month obviously not, then Stats or Serral would be number 1. | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On March 08 2019 14:40 youngjiddle wrote: The article says at the top, obviously not, then Stats or Serral would be number 1. True. Read too quickly to notice that. Assuming they're going as far back as Blizzcon, I agree Stats and Serral should be top 2. | ||
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franzji
United States580 Posts
On March 08 2019 14:44 Anc13nt wrote: True. Read too quickly to notice that. Assuming they're going as far back as Blizzcon, I agree Stats and Serral should be top 2. yeah. it's not worth getting that mad about but it's fun to laugh at and discuss the silliness of it. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On March 08 2019 14:40 youngjiddle wrote: The article says at the top, obviously not, then Stats or Serral would be number 1. its worth keeping in mind that this ranking is the average of a couple different staff, so it is entirely possible that some of them put Serral as #1 or whatever. Just like whenever we do a community power rank no one agrees entirely with the list as it an average | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On March 08 2019 04:00 pvsnp wrote: Inb4 "Maru wasn't the best after he got knocked out in the Ro8, but Serral is still the best even though he got knocked out in the Ro8." Have you seen that ZvZ though ? On March 08 2019 14:29 Anc13nt wrote: I think we have different definition of what recent means evidently, since you are pulling results from a year ago. By recent, I was thinking of the current month or the past month (since Power ranks are often made on irregular monthly basis). By that metric, it's hard to argue soO isn't number one since he won the only "recent" tournament and his form is top 3 for sure. That said, you can say Serral deserves to be #1 since there hasn't been a PR in months so Blizzcon results should be accounted. Although I disagree with this point, it is a fair one. I guess what I'm trying to get to is that people should complain about the PR criteria instead of claiming some sort of fanboying/bias on the part of the writers. Also, I didn't say that soO was the strongest player. I said you could make the argument that he was. I agree he didn't look convincing in group stages but beating Stats and Serral (the other two best players) convincingly should be good arguments in his favor. Especially since Serral had like an 11-8 map score while soO had 25-13 map score and Stats had 24-8 map score. Really, if we're going off map score alone, Stats was clearly the scariest player in the tournament out of the three and Serral clearly had the weakest performance out of the 3. It's interesting to me that no one considered Stats as being the best player at the moment. remember when stats was destroying proleague and no one noticed him ? | ||
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Dave4
494 Posts
On March 08 2019 08:05 Waxangel wrote: If it's of any solace to you, we gave Serral the extremely prestigious player of the year award  1. Please don't edit my text in an attempt to insult me, I'm pretty sure that's not consistent with the high standards of TL communication. 2. It's not about me, it's about the way TL writers appear to bully Serral via underpaying and mocking his achievements in this way. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On March 08 2019 08:59 Mahanaim wrote: I would still have put Serral on #1 and soO at #2 (for tradition), but hey, if you are the reigning champion of IEM Katowice, then you at least deserve that #1 spot for the time being! soO Jjang Nim fighting! I guess, that s what the writers were thinking, it would have been blasphemy to place SoO second after all this, so it was either 3rd or 1st, and decided to go with first. I understand people who say he should be 3rd or even lower, because his run started with pretty bad losses, and then Serral and Stats kinda played sloppily as opposed to SoO pulling out some next level meta-shaping way to play SC2. But as I said, im fine with him at first. If you would put Serral, people would lose their collective minds as he lost to SoO heads up. Cant put Stats because he s out of GSL and ultimately was beaten by SoO, despite his clean run till that point. Dark looks hot, but hasnt won anything, Maru looked bad. So yeah, SoO first makes sense. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 08 2019 16:29 Dave4 wrote: 1. Please don't edit my text in an attempt to insult me, I'm pretty sure that's not consistent with the high standards of TL communication. 2. It's not about me, it's about the way TL writers appear to bully Serral via underpaying and mocking his achievements in this way. 1. Lmao you really think Serral knows (or cares) about the TL power rank? 2. In the unlikely event of 1, he can cry himself to sleep while hugging his Blizzcon trophy | ||
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