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that explains the weird posts earlier. But I find them passive. Talking about:
On January 24 2018 17:44 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 17:11 justanothertownie wrote: This is really nice. If people in this game can't read me they just have to take a look at the posts of Twat in the early game. Insanely towny. Even more suspicious how HF instantly puts this slot in his 2 player scum pile at the start of the dayphase. Is it suspicious at all though?
On January 24 2018 17:46 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 16:44 justanothertownie wrote: Right now I don't really think we should give damerion the luxury of outing a protective role with his fakeclaim depending on how improbable cop+vig already is. You think there's a protective role that healed afk btdt 2 nights in a row?
On January 24 2018 17:47 Holyflare wrote: Nevermind that healers are almost always nerfed?
On January 24 2018 17:48 Holyflare wrote: I would still believe btdt over Damerion though after d1 vote count. Like, you just learned that BTDT AND Damerion both claimed blue. This is huge info, one of them is scum! Damerion, who you thought during the night was cop, got counterclaimed! But instead of raging reactions, we got this. It seems very underwhelming for such a realization.
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On January 24 2018 21:46 Rels wrote:that explains the weird posts earlier. But I find them passive. Talking about: Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 17:44 Holyflare wrote:On January 24 2018 17:11 justanothertownie wrote: This is really nice. If people in this game can't read me they just have to take a look at the posts of Twat in the early game. Insanely towny. Even more suspicious how HF instantly puts this slot in his 2 player scum pile at the start of the dayphase. Is it suspicious at all though? Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 17:46 Holyflare wrote:On January 24 2018 16:44 justanothertownie wrote: Right now I don't really think we should give damerion the luxury of outing a protective role with his fakeclaim depending on how improbable cop+vig already is. You think there's a protective role that healed afk btdt 2 nights in a row? Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 17:47 Holyflare wrote: Nevermind that healers are almost always nerfed? Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 17:48 Holyflare wrote: I would still believe btdt over Damerion though after d1 vote count. Like, you just learned that BTDT AND Damerion both claimed blue. This is huge info, one of them is scum! Damerion, who you thought during the night was cop, got counterclaimed! But instead of raging reactions, we got this. It seems very underwhelming for such a realization. Yes, I agree.
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I will be in and out today due to having to finish some paperwork and looking over some things. But I should be here for most of the day.
Firstly I cannot say anything to past setups or if this one is to imbalanced for town, my checks were what I thought were the best at the moment and if I did not get the godfather we had three confirmed town with what to me seems very likely a fourth town in HolyFlare.
I claimed really early with my checks for the reason of discussion, I claimed with a few seconds into the start of the day gave my checks and reasoning. I softed my checks the previous night if by some reason I died and I wanted to leave a clear example why I was townreading Mocsta so hard at that point. Also if anyone wanted to counterclaim me it would give us plenty of time to discuss the merits of my claim vs. theirs instead of waiting for the last minute and confusion happening as is likely to happen.
In any case, I still think BTDT, Mocsta and Holyflare are town in this situation, and I understand that I am the probable lynch today in any case. I have green checks on the first two, HolyFlare should of killed me as scum and he somewhat dumb telled himself when he was going over roles that scum should have to counteract a Vig+Cop when he included a framer which I do not believe is possible by the OP.
As for my other reads give me just a minute to finish this paperwork and I will talk with whoever is around about them.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 24 2018 21:46 Rels wrote:that explains the weird posts earlier. But I find them passive. Talking about: Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 17:44 Holyflare wrote:On January 24 2018 17:11 justanothertownie wrote: This is really nice. If people in this game can't read me they just have to take a look at the posts of Twat in the early game. Insanely towny. Even more suspicious how HF instantly puts this slot in his 2 player scum pile at the start of the dayphase. Is it suspicious at all though? Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 17:46 Holyflare wrote:On January 24 2018 16:44 justanothertownie wrote: Right now I don't really think we should give damerion the luxury of outing a protective role with his fakeclaim depending on how improbable cop+vig already is. You think there's a protective role that healed afk btdt 2 nights in a row? Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 17:47 Holyflare wrote: Nevermind that healers are almost always nerfed? Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 17:48 Holyflare wrote: I would still believe btdt over Damerion though after d1 vote count. Like, you just learned that BTDT AND Damerion both claimed blue. This is huge info, one of them is scum! Damerion, who you thought during the night was cop, got counterclaimed! But instead of raging reactions, we got this. It seems very underwhelming for such a realization.
I thought everyone already realised and jat was just a moron. Turns out it was me all along!
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On January 24 2018 22:11 Damerion wrote: I will be in and out today due to having to finish some paperwork and looking over some things. But I should be here for most of the day.
Firstly I cannot say anything to past setups or if this one is to imbalanced for town, my checks were what I thought were the best at the moment and if I did not get the godfather we had three confirmed town with what to me seems very likely a fourth town in HolyFlare.
I claimed really early with my checks for the reason of discussion, I claimed with a few seconds into the start of the day gave my checks and reasoning. I softed my checks the previous night if by some reason I died and I wanted to leave a clear example why I was townreading Mocsta so hard at that point. Also if anyone wanted to counterclaim me it would give us plenty of time to discuss the merits of my claim vs. theirs instead of waiting for the last minute and confusion happening as is likely to happen.
In any case, I still think BTDT, Mocsta and Holyflare are town in this situation, and I understand that I am the probable lynch today in any case. I have green checks on the first two, HolyFlare should of killed me as scum and he somewhat dumb telled himself when he was going over roles that scum should have to counteract a Vig+Cop when he included a framer which I do not believe is possible by the OP.
As for my other reads give me just a minute to finish this paperwork and I will talk with whoever is around about them. This HF dumbtell doesn't really mean anything alignmentwise. He is also not above faking something like this either.
Why exactly did you feel the need to claim without having any conclusive information for town? You could at least try to defend yourself without claiming first, no? Also, why do you give your greenchecks any credit when even if you check a mafia player you only have a 50/50 chance of getting a redcheck?
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Reading OPs is for chumps and mafia.
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^^ Nominates for funniest moment 2018
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Jat with a great point about green check with godfather
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Well not really 50/50
Mafia is 2/12 chance night1 if gf is im play Or 3/12 without.. so 25/75
But yes. Valid point regarsless
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I am talking about now that a goon flipped already. 2 mafia left - one of them definitely godfather if damerion is the cop (the other probably roleblocker). 50/50. Seems like pretty simple math to me.
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So there is basically only one player in this game who gives Damerion a meaningful check. He did not check this guy. So why claim without a fight?
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On January 24 2018 22:20 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 22:11 Damerion wrote: I will be in and out today due to having to finish some paperwork and looking over some things. But I should be here for most of the day.
Firstly I cannot say anything to past setups or if this one is to imbalanced for town, my checks were what I thought were the best at the moment and if I did not get the godfather we had three confirmed town with what to me seems very likely a fourth town in HolyFlare.
I claimed really early with my checks for the reason of discussion, I claimed with a few seconds into the start of the day gave my checks and reasoning. I softed my checks the previous night if by some reason I died and I wanted to leave a clear example why I was townreading Mocsta so hard at that point. Also if anyone wanted to counterclaim me it would give us plenty of time to discuss the merits of my claim vs. theirs instead of waiting for the last minute and confusion happening as is likely to happen.
In any case, I still think BTDT, Mocsta and Holyflare are town in this situation, and I understand that I am the probable lynch today in any case. I have green checks on the first two, HolyFlare should of killed me as scum and he somewhat dumb telled himself when he was going over roles that scum should have to counteract a Vig+Cop when he included a framer which I do not believe is possible by the OP.
As for my other reads give me just a minute to finish this paperwork and I will talk with whoever is around about them. This HF dumbtell doesn't really mean anything alignmentwise. He is also not above faking something like this either. Why exactly did you feel the need to claim without having any conclusive information for town? You could at least try to defend yourself without claiming first, no? Also, why do you give your greenchecks any credit when even if you check a mafia player you only have a 50/50 chance of getting a redcheck?
I had very little time invested in the game beyond day one, I knew I was up for lynch today especially with the Rsoultin kill. Her dying took out the world where I could convince my biggest critic that I am town without claiming at that point. If I was going to be lynched today regardless which it seems to be the case anyway, I wanted all the information out in the thread for discussion.
As for that, its possible but this way avoids confusion and gives town the ability to weigh my claim, gives anyone else the opportunity to counterclaim and we get a free mafia that way anyway. And stops my claiming at the last second for no information to be given by the lynch, CFD/Shenanigans are never good for town in my opinion.
As for the green checks, sure you can reevaluate them at a later day but there has to be at least one mafia outside these two, if its the godfather we know that both of these are now town and the game is basically solved. If it is a roleblocker we know we have to scrutinize them. I felt eliminating three people at this point to the lynch was more important (and letting them talk things out as well as myself without pressure) than waiting until the last minute where confusion would rage.
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On January 24 2018 22:28 Damerion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 22:20 justanothertownie wrote:On January 24 2018 22:11 Damerion wrote: I will be in and out today due to having to finish some paperwork and looking over some things. But I should be here for most of the day.
Firstly I cannot say anything to past setups or if this one is to imbalanced for town, my checks were what I thought were the best at the moment and if I did not get the godfather we had three confirmed town with what to me seems very likely a fourth town in HolyFlare.
I claimed really early with my checks for the reason of discussion, I claimed with a few seconds into the start of the day gave my checks and reasoning. I softed my checks the previous night if by some reason I died and I wanted to leave a clear example why I was townreading Mocsta so hard at that point. Also if anyone wanted to counterclaim me it would give us plenty of time to discuss the merits of my claim vs. theirs instead of waiting for the last minute and confusion happening as is likely to happen.
In any case, I still think BTDT, Mocsta and Holyflare are town in this situation, and I understand that I am the probable lynch today in any case. I have green checks on the first two, HolyFlare should of killed me as scum and he somewhat dumb telled himself when he was going over roles that scum should have to counteract a Vig+Cop when he included a framer which I do not believe is possible by the OP.
As for my other reads give me just a minute to finish this paperwork and I will talk with whoever is around about them. This HF dumbtell doesn't really mean anything alignmentwise. He is also not above faking something like this either. Why exactly did you feel the need to claim without having any conclusive information for town? You could at least try to defend yourself without claiming first, no? Also, why do you give your greenchecks any credit when even if you check a mafia player you only have a 50/50 chance of getting a redcheck? I had very little time invested in the game beyond day one, I knew I was up for lynch today especially with the Rsoultin kill. Her dying took out the world where I could convince my biggest critic that I am town without claiming at that point. If I was going to be lynched today regardless which it seems to be the case anyway, I wanted all the information out in the thread for discussion. As for that, its possible but this way avoids confusion and gives town the ability to weigh my claim, gives anyone else the opportunity to counterclaim and we get a free mafia that way anyway. And stops my claiming at the last second for no information to be given by the lynch, CFD/Shenanigans are never good for town in my opinion. As for the green checks, sure you can reevaluate them at a later day but there has to be at least one mafia outside these two, if its the godfather we know that both of these are now town and the game is basically solved. If it is a roleblocker we know we have to scrutinize them. I felt eliminating three people at this point to the lynch was more important (and letting them talk things out as well as myself without pressure) than waiting until the last minute where confusion would rage. But that's the thing - you aren't eliminating anyone with these checks. If you aren't fakeclaiming you just gave away towns most important role for literally 0 gain.
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On January 24 2018 22:39 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 22:28 Damerion wrote:On January 24 2018 22:20 justanothertownie wrote:On January 24 2018 22:11 Damerion wrote: I will be in and out today due to having to finish some paperwork and looking over some things. But I should be here for most of the day.
Firstly I cannot say anything to past setups or if this one is to imbalanced for town, my checks were what I thought were the best at the moment and if I did not get the godfather we had three confirmed town with what to me seems very likely a fourth town in HolyFlare.
I claimed really early with my checks for the reason of discussion, I claimed with a few seconds into the start of the day gave my checks and reasoning. I softed my checks the previous night if by some reason I died and I wanted to leave a clear example why I was townreading Mocsta so hard at that point. Also if anyone wanted to counterclaim me it would give us plenty of time to discuss the merits of my claim vs. theirs instead of waiting for the last minute and confusion happening as is likely to happen.
In any case, I still think BTDT, Mocsta and Holyflare are town in this situation, and I understand that I am the probable lynch today in any case. I have green checks on the first two, HolyFlare should of killed me as scum and he somewhat dumb telled himself when he was going over roles that scum should have to counteract a Vig+Cop when he included a framer which I do not believe is possible by the OP.
As for my other reads give me just a minute to finish this paperwork and I will talk with whoever is around about them. This HF dumbtell doesn't really mean anything alignmentwise. He is also not above faking something like this either. Why exactly did you feel the need to claim without having any conclusive information for town? You could at least try to defend yourself without claiming first, no? Also, why do you give your greenchecks any credit when even if you check a mafia player you only have a 50/50 chance of getting a redcheck? I had very little time invested in the game beyond day one, I knew I was up for lynch today especially with the Rsoultin kill. Her dying took out the world where I could convince my biggest critic that I am town without claiming at that point. If I was going to be lynched today regardless which it seems to be the case anyway, I wanted all the information out in the thread for discussion. As for that, its possible but this way avoids confusion and gives town the ability to weigh my claim, gives anyone else the opportunity to counterclaim and we get a free mafia that way anyway. And stops my claiming at the last second for no information to be given by the lynch, CFD/Shenanigans are never good for town in my opinion. As for the green checks, sure you can reevaluate them at a later day but there has to be at least one mafia outside these two, if its the godfather we know that both of these are now town and the game is basically solved. If it is a roleblocker we know we have to scrutinize them. I felt eliminating three people at this point to the lynch was more important (and letting them talk things out as well as myself without pressure) than waiting until the last minute where confusion would rage. But that's the thing - you aren't eliminating anyone with these checks. If you aren't fakeclaiming you just gave away towns most important role for literally 0 gain.
I believe with all of my heart with Rsoultin dead I would have a majority of the votes at this moment with nobody really looking to talk to me about it. The most important role would be reduced to a 0 gain at deadline as well as start of day.
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On January 24 2018 22:44 Damerion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 22:39 justanothertownie wrote:On January 24 2018 22:28 Damerion wrote:On January 24 2018 22:20 justanothertownie wrote:On January 24 2018 22:11 Damerion wrote: I will be in and out today due to having to finish some paperwork and looking over some things. But I should be here for most of the day.
Firstly I cannot say anything to past setups or if this one is to imbalanced for town, my checks were what I thought were the best at the moment and if I did not get the godfather we had three confirmed town with what to me seems very likely a fourth town in HolyFlare.
I claimed really early with my checks for the reason of discussion, I claimed with a few seconds into the start of the day gave my checks and reasoning. I softed my checks the previous night if by some reason I died and I wanted to leave a clear example why I was townreading Mocsta so hard at that point. Also if anyone wanted to counterclaim me it would give us plenty of time to discuss the merits of my claim vs. theirs instead of waiting for the last minute and confusion happening as is likely to happen.
In any case, I still think BTDT, Mocsta and Holyflare are town in this situation, and I understand that I am the probable lynch today in any case. I have green checks on the first two, HolyFlare should of killed me as scum and he somewhat dumb telled himself when he was going over roles that scum should have to counteract a Vig+Cop when he included a framer which I do not believe is possible by the OP.
As for my other reads give me just a minute to finish this paperwork and I will talk with whoever is around about them. This HF dumbtell doesn't really mean anything alignmentwise. He is also not above faking something like this either. Why exactly did you feel the need to claim without having any conclusive information for town? You could at least try to defend yourself without claiming first, no? Also, why do you give your greenchecks any credit when even if you check a mafia player you only have a 50/50 chance of getting a redcheck? I had very little time invested in the game beyond day one, I knew I was up for lynch today especially with the Rsoultin kill. Her dying took out the world where I could convince my biggest critic that I am town without claiming at that point. If I was going to be lynched today regardless which it seems to be the case anyway, I wanted all the information out in the thread for discussion. As for that, its possible but this way avoids confusion and gives town the ability to weigh my claim, gives anyone else the opportunity to counterclaim and we get a free mafia that way anyway. And stops my claiming at the last second for no information to be given by the lynch, CFD/Shenanigans are never good for town in my opinion. As for the green checks, sure you can reevaluate them at a later day but there has to be at least one mafia outside these two, if its the godfather we know that both of these are now town and the game is basically solved. If it is a roleblocker we know we have to scrutinize them. I felt eliminating three people at this point to the lynch was more important (and letting them talk things out as well as myself without pressure) than waiting until the last minute where confusion would rage. But that's the thing - you aren't eliminating anyone with these checks. If you aren't fakeclaiming you just gave away towns most important role for literally 0 gain. I believe with all of my heart with Rsoultin dead I would have a majority of the votes at this moment with nobody really looking to talk to me about it. The most important role would be reduced to a 0 gain at deadline as well as start of day. That's a very pessimistic point of view. In my head it doesn't fit with the extremely confident early game Damerion at all. Rsoultin is dead ffs. Why not at least try to convince people? That's literally what this game is about.
I think it is far more likely that you are fakeclaiming. Not buying this emo shit.
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On January 24 2018 22:47 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 22:44 Damerion wrote:On January 24 2018 22:39 justanothertownie wrote:On January 24 2018 22:28 Damerion wrote:On January 24 2018 22:20 justanothertownie wrote:On January 24 2018 22:11 Damerion wrote: I will be in and out today due to having to finish some paperwork and looking over some things. But I should be here for most of the day.
Firstly I cannot say anything to past setups or if this one is to imbalanced for town, my checks were what I thought were the best at the moment and if I did not get the godfather we had three confirmed town with what to me seems very likely a fourth town in HolyFlare.
I claimed really early with my checks for the reason of discussion, I claimed with a few seconds into the start of the day gave my checks and reasoning. I softed my checks the previous night if by some reason I died and I wanted to leave a clear example why I was townreading Mocsta so hard at that point. Also if anyone wanted to counterclaim me it would give us plenty of time to discuss the merits of my claim vs. theirs instead of waiting for the last minute and confusion happening as is likely to happen.
In any case, I still think BTDT, Mocsta and Holyflare are town in this situation, and I understand that I am the probable lynch today in any case. I have green checks on the first two, HolyFlare should of killed me as scum and he somewhat dumb telled himself when he was going over roles that scum should have to counteract a Vig+Cop when he included a framer which I do not believe is possible by the OP.
As for my other reads give me just a minute to finish this paperwork and I will talk with whoever is around about them. This HF dumbtell doesn't really mean anything alignmentwise. He is also not above faking something like this either. Why exactly did you feel the need to claim without having any conclusive information for town? You could at least try to defend yourself without claiming first, no? Also, why do you give your greenchecks any credit when even if you check a mafia player you only have a 50/50 chance of getting a redcheck? I had very little time invested in the game beyond day one, I knew I was up for lynch today especially with the Rsoultin kill. Her dying took out the world where I could convince my biggest critic that I am town without claiming at that point. If I was going to be lynched today regardless which it seems to be the case anyway, I wanted all the information out in the thread for discussion. As for that, its possible but this way avoids confusion and gives town the ability to weigh my claim, gives anyone else the opportunity to counterclaim and we get a free mafia that way anyway. And stops my claiming at the last second for no information to be given by the lynch, CFD/Shenanigans are never good for town in my opinion. As for the green checks, sure you can reevaluate them at a later day but there has to be at least one mafia outside these two, if its the godfather we know that both of these are now town and the game is basically solved. If it is a roleblocker we know we have to scrutinize them. I felt eliminating three people at this point to the lynch was more important (and letting them talk things out as well as myself without pressure) than waiting until the last minute where confusion would rage. But that's the thing - you aren't eliminating anyone with these checks. If you aren't fakeclaiming you just gave away towns most important role for literally 0 gain. I believe with all of my heart with Rsoultin dead I would have a majority of the votes at this moment with nobody really looking to talk to me about it. The most important role would be reduced to a 0 gain at deadline as well as start of day. That's a very pessimistic point of view. In my head it doesn't fit with the extremely confident early game Damerion at all. Rsoultin is dead ffs. Why not at least try to convince people? That's literally what this game is about. I think it is far more likely that you are fakeclaiming. Not buying this emo shit.
I do not think I am being emo, or pessimistic. Realistic that people as mderg have been fixated on me since d1 and a death of Rsoultin if they are town just fixes it more firmly in their heads.
I have given my explanation for claiming early, it only has positive benefits for town.
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I mean you call it pessimistic but I literally have 5 votes, three of the votes come from green checks and someone who believed my claim immediately. And you say I had no reason to claim?
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On January 24 2018 22:52 Damerion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 22:47 justanothertownie wrote:On January 24 2018 22:44 Damerion wrote:On January 24 2018 22:39 justanothertownie wrote:On January 24 2018 22:28 Damerion wrote:On January 24 2018 22:20 justanothertownie wrote:On January 24 2018 22:11 Damerion wrote: I will be in and out today due to having to finish some paperwork and looking over some things. But I should be here for most of the day.
Firstly I cannot say anything to past setups or if this one is to imbalanced for town, my checks were what I thought were the best at the moment and if I did not get the godfather we had three confirmed town with what to me seems very likely a fourth town in HolyFlare.
I claimed really early with my checks for the reason of discussion, I claimed with a few seconds into the start of the day gave my checks and reasoning. I softed my checks the previous night if by some reason I died and I wanted to leave a clear example why I was townreading Mocsta so hard at that point. Also if anyone wanted to counterclaim me it would give us plenty of time to discuss the merits of my claim vs. theirs instead of waiting for the last minute and confusion happening as is likely to happen.
In any case, I still think BTDT, Mocsta and Holyflare are town in this situation, and I understand that I am the probable lynch today in any case. I have green checks on the first two, HolyFlare should of killed me as scum and he somewhat dumb telled himself when he was going over roles that scum should have to counteract a Vig+Cop when he included a framer which I do not believe is possible by the OP.
As for my other reads give me just a minute to finish this paperwork and I will talk with whoever is around about them. This HF dumbtell doesn't really mean anything alignmentwise. He is also not above faking something like this either. Why exactly did you feel the need to claim without having any conclusive information for town? You could at least try to defend yourself without claiming first, no? Also, why do you give your greenchecks any credit when even if you check a mafia player you only have a 50/50 chance of getting a redcheck? I had very little time invested in the game beyond day one, I knew I was up for lynch today especially with the Rsoultin kill. Her dying took out the world where I could convince my biggest critic that I am town without claiming at that point. If I was going to be lynched today regardless which it seems to be the case anyway, I wanted all the information out in the thread for discussion. As for that, its possible but this way avoids confusion and gives town the ability to weigh my claim, gives anyone else the opportunity to counterclaim and we get a free mafia that way anyway. And stops my claiming at the last second for no information to be given by the lynch, CFD/Shenanigans are never good for town in my opinion. As for the green checks, sure you can reevaluate them at a later day but there has to be at least one mafia outside these two, if its the godfather we know that both of these are now town and the game is basically solved. If it is a roleblocker we know we have to scrutinize them. I felt eliminating three people at this point to the lynch was more important (and letting them talk things out as well as myself without pressure) than waiting until the last minute where confusion would rage. But that's the thing - you aren't eliminating anyone with these checks. If you aren't fakeclaiming you just gave away towns most important role for literally 0 gain. I believe with all of my heart with Rsoultin dead I would have a majority of the votes at this moment with nobody really looking to talk to me about it. The most important role would be reduced to a 0 gain at deadline as well as start of day. That's a very pessimistic point of view. In my head it doesn't fit with the extremely confident early game Damerion at all. Rsoultin is dead ffs. Why not at least try to convince people? That's literally what this game is about. I think it is far more likely that you are fakeclaiming. Not buying this emo shit. I do not think I am being emo, or pessimistic. Realistic that people as mderg have been fixated on me since d1 and a death of Rsoultin if they are town just fixes it more firmly in their heads. I have given my explanation for claiming early, it only has positive benefits for town. It actually has 0 benefit. It is straight up bad play. Which is ok since this is a newbie game after all but you don't seem like that kind of person to me.
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On January 24 2018 22:53 Damerion wrote: I mean you call it pessimistic but I literally have 5 votes, three of the votes come from green checks and someone who believed my claim immediately. And you say I had no reason to claim? You gained these votes precisely and only because you claimed. Because the role you claim is very unrealistic at this point.
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