|
On May 11 2015 15:39 L_Master wrote:Geb Calls it a CareerWhat's significant for me is the fact that Geb is the true, undisputed GOAT lover of running.
Well said. Kenny B is still the greatest ever, but Geb is a very close second. And in love of running he is, without doubt, number one.
I'm going to get some Ethiopian takeout in his honor.
|
On May 11 2015 04:59 Don_Julio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 20:15 Meat wrote: Bought new shoes in a runners shop a few weeks ago, asics gt-2000 3, pretty sure they are causing knee pain. I didn't have sore knees before, but now they are weak and sensitive after a run. So I'm having my doubts about that over pronating correction and soft bedding. Did you increase distance or pace recently? What shoes did you wear before? I went for a 15km run yesterday and it went much better. Pretty sure the problem was that I changed to a heel landing in these new shoes, so I'm going for more of a mid foot landing now.
|
On May 12 2015 14:00 Bonham wrote:Well said. Kenny B is still the greatest ever, but Geb is a very close second. And in love of running he is, without doubt, number one. I'm going to get some Ethiopian takeout in his honor.
Great race Bonham. Now I'm intrigued how you'll do when you peak.
I still remember when I was a child and a teenager watching the Olympics or Worlds when it came to the 5k and 10k that Haile won what seemed like every race. Paula Radcliffe ran he last "competitive" marathon in London, too. It's truely the end of an era with arguably the two greatest distance runners ever retiring.
On May 13 2015 18:12 Meat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2015 04:59 Don_Julio wrote:On May 10 2015 20:15 Meat wrote: Bought new shoes in a runners shop a few weeks ago, asics gt-2000 3, pretty sure they are causing knee pain. I didn't have sore knees before, but now they are weak and sensitive after a run. So I'm having my doubts about that over pronating correction and soft bedding. Did you increase distance or pace recently? What shoes did you wear before? I went for a 15km run yesterday and it went much better. Pretty sure the problem was that I changed to a heel landing in these new shoes, so I'm going for more of a mid foot landing now.
Disclaimer: The following is partially anecdotal advice without having done proper research. If it works, good. But please don't focus too hard on how your foot lands. There are elite runners who heel strike (eg Kimetto has a slight heel strike at one foot). What's really important is that your feet don't land in front of your centre of mass because if they do you (a) automatically lose some momentum and (b) increase the force of impact which is already really high at running. What you can do is to count your steps per minute. A high cadence usually improves your running form. 180 steps/minute is a good guideline but getting to 170 should be sufficient enough.
|
|
I hope he got booed again just like at most other events he ran at.
Not sure how Lance was regarded in the US during his career but it was always common knowledge that he was a massive doper just like his competitors. Jan Ullrich's shady affairs were one of the main reasons Cycling's popularity as a spectator sport dropped massively in Germany which in the end cost many companies which make money with cycling.
|
On May 16 2015 07:23 Bonham wrote:Convicted doper Gatlin runs 9.77 for 100m, a PB, to start the season. He is 33 years old. On a related note, I just finished reading Wheelmen, a great look at Armstrong and how he managed to dope for so long. (Spoiler: his winning made lots of people, not just him, lots of money. The fact that he's a total sociopath also helped.)
9.74 actually. Easing up at the line. In May. On and at 33.
Seems totally legit.
Sorta okay seeing Fo Marah lose, but not entirely because he got beat in a kick with 400 to go...which means it will likely only make the guys think maybe they can outkick him now...ergo more sit and kick. I really don't mind sit and kick that much, but it doesn't even feel like we get one good TT type race a year on the track, and it would be fun to watch a race expecting something other than sprint with 300 to go.
I really enjoying watching dominant runners dominate, but not in Farah style. There has to be some fast races in there, if Farah started dropping some 12:40s or 26:20s I'd be in full support.
|
Hey guys, I feel like I'm being stupid and seeing as you have helped me out before, I was hoping you could help again.
Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points)
Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada).
I was trying to determine my VDOT for current training for a half marathon in the fall. A month or more ago I was able to run a mile in 6 minutes on the treadmill, which gave me a VDOT of about 48.4 according to Jack Daniels' VDOT calculator (linked here: https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/ )
2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday. On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles, I ended up doing 6.25 miles in total for the night run. I calculated the VDOT for the 3.5 miles at 7:03 and it came out to 45.1.
Feeling dejected today I decided to run outside again and ran 5 miles in 41 min. It began to feel like I was punishing myself now....I rode my bike for 15 minutes to my parents house and a couple hours later, stopped at a track on my way back, belly full of food and ran 800m in 2:56.VDOT of 46.3 - better but I wanted 48 so badly like I had a couple months ago.
It was basically the binge eating equivalent in exercising....I want to keep trying for some elusive number. I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half. Seems dumb because even a VDOT of 45 sets me up for a PB of 1:40.
Have you guys been in this situation before? I am soon entering the second phase of training and wanted to see what you guys thought....I was so dejected that even after 2 weeks of major taper I wasn't any faster. My legs were sore from swimming the day before I returned home...but ARGHHHHHH.
I love the science behind running which is probably why I get hung up on those VDOT numbers. I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.This is starting to sound like a whine blog but I am afraid I am going to push myself to far and end up getting injured by doing stupid training.
I'll just stop and see if you guys have any words of wisdom.
/end whine
|
Well they are all on dope. Donno why to boo some, but not others. Just because they got unlucky/bad at beating the IQ test?
|
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote:Hey guys, I feel like I'm being stupid and seeing as you have helped me out before, I was hoping you could help again. Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points) Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada). I was trying to determine my VDOT for current training for a half marathon in the fall. A month or more ago I was able to run a mile in 6 minutes on the treadmill, which gave me a VDOT of about 48.4 according to Jack Daniels' VDOT calculator (linked here: https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/ ) 2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday. On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles, I ended up doing 6.25 miles in total for the night run. I calculated the VDOT for the 3.5 miles at 7:03 and it came out to 45.1. Feeling dejected today I decided to run outside again and ran 5 miles in 41 min. It began to feel like I was punishing myself now....I rode my bike for 15 minutes to my parents house and a couple hours later, stopped at a track on my way back, belly full of food and ran 800m in 2:56.VDOT of 46.3 - better but I wanted 48 so badly like I had a couple months ago. It was basically the binge eating equivalent in exercising....I want to keep trying for some elusive number. I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half. Seems dumb because even a VDOT of 45 sets me up for a PB of 1:40. Have you guys been in this situation before? I am soon entering the second phase of training and wanted to see what you guys thought....I was so dejected that even after 2 weeks of major taper I wasn't any faster. My legs were sore from swimming the day before I returned home...but ARGHHHHHH. I love the science behind running which is probably why I get hung up on those VDOT numbers. I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.This is starting to sound like a whine blog but I am afraid I am going to push myself to far and end up getting injured by doing stupid training. I'll just stop and see if you guys have any words of wisdom. /end whine Yeah you get way too hung up in VDOT numbers.
1. A two week long complete break from running isn't a good taper. 2. A time trial will almost always be slower than an actual race. 3. Multiple hard efforts in succesion will put a strain on you and you'll never reach your actual potential. 4. Don't bother with shorter distances than 10k to get a guess on your HM potential.
When is the half you want to run. Do you have time to get a 6-8 week training cycle for a 10k in right now? If not start your training plan and target a pace you'd be happy with. Make sure to run a test race a few weeks before the half. I think a 1:30 half would be impossible to achieve coming from a 45:10 10k. 1:30 is fucking fast in my book.
How did you 40 mile weeks look like btw?
|
On May 17 2015 17:13 Don_Julio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote:Hey guys, I feel like I'm being stupid and seeing as you have helped me out before, I was hoping you could help again. Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points) Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada). I was trying to determine my VDOT for current training for a half marathon in the fall. A month or more ago I was able to run a mile in 6 minutes on the treadmill, which gave me a VDOT of about 48.4 according to Jack Daniels' VDOT calculator (linked here: https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/ ) 2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday. On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles, I ended up doing 6.25 miles in total for the night run. I calculated the VDOT for the 3.5 miles at 7:03 and it came out to 45.1. Feeling dejected today I decided to run outside again and ran 5 miles in 41 min. It began to feel like I was punishing myself now....I rode my bike for 15 minutes to my parents house and a couple hours later, stopped at a track on my way back, belly full of food and ran 800m in 2:56.VDOT of 46.3 - better but I wanted 48 so badly like I had a couple months ago. It was basically the binge eating equivalent in exercising....I want to keep trying for some elusive number. I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half. Seems dumb because even a VDOT of 45 sets me up for a PB of 1:40. Have you guys been in this situation before? I am soon entering the second phase of training and wanted to see what you guys thought....I was so dejected that even after 2 weeks of major taper I wasn't any faster. My legs were sore from swimming the day before I returned home...but ARGHHHHHH. I love the science behind running which is probably why I get hung up on those VDOT numbers. I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.This is starting to sound like a whine blog but I am afraid I am going to push myself to far and end up getting injured by doing stupid training. I'll just stop and see if you guys have any words of wisdom. /end whine Yeah you get way too hung up in VDOT numbers. 1. A two week long complete break from running isn't a good taper. 2. A time trial will almost always be slower than an actual race. 3. Multiple hard efforts in succesion will put a strain on you and you'll never reach your actual potential. 4. Don't bother with shorter distances than 10k to get a guess on your HM potential. When is the half you want to run. Do you have time to get a 6-8 week training cycle for a 10k in right now? If not start your training plan and target a pace you'd be happy with. Make sure to run a test race a few weeks before the half. I think a 1:30 half would be impossible to achieve coming from a 45:10 10k. 1:30 is fucking fast in my book. How did you 40 mile weeks look like btw?
1. I know it wasn't a good taper, but I didn't really have a choice and I thought I'd at least be a little fresher. 2. noted. 3. Yeah, I was dumb, just chasing numbers. 4. noted.
The half I want to run is Sept. 11/12. I was following a half marathon training plan by Jack Daniels' in his Running Formula book. Phase 2 starts to include some 200 repeats and a threshold run each week. My 40 mile weeks have been essentially easy runs with one run being about 10-13M.
Would inserting a 6-8 week 10K plan mess up my training schedule? It would essentially replace my phase 2? Do you know of any good ones, or should I look online for some?
Thanks for your help!
|
On May 17 2015 08:51 Alcathous wrote: Well they are all on dope. Donno why to boo some, but not others. Just because they got unlucky/bad at beating the IQ test?
In sprinting, maybe. In overall athletics. no. Why boo some and not others? Because of a concept called innocent until proven guilty. Asafa, Gay, and Gatlin have been caught, the others haven't and while it's highly probable they are doping we cannot prove this.
I boo anybody that's been convicted because they should be out of the sport. The fact there isn't a lifetime ban for doping is a travesty.
|
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote:
Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points)
Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada).
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half.
What exactly made you decide to target 1:30? Not to be discouraging but none of your race times suggest anything close to current 1:30 half ability. Drop a 19:30 5k or 40:00 10k and then you can start to think about 1:30.
Right now I would say 1:35 is an ambitious, but not inconceivable goal. The only way you are breaking 1:30 in the fall is if you have some weight to lose and do a good job of that.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: 2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles
So, you took two weeks off from training and were disappointed that you weren't running as fast as you were two weeks ago? Ehm.....wat?
I'm not really sure what you expected, but doing no training is not a taper. Your doing modest mileage with almost no intensity, a taper is just going to hurt you at this point. If you had 40 mpw with 2-3 good, solid workouts and cut back towards 30 mpw slightly curtailing the volume of repeats in the hard sessions...you might see a slight benefit. At 40mpw and running easy there is nothing to be gained by even a modest taper. All taper benefits are modest though, perhaps 1-2% at most.
Doing no running is not a taper. That's called not training.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.
First, it sounds like you took a relative break until Christmas, and only recently have begun hitting decent mileage in the 40mpw zone. It takes a while for benefits to start kicking in, and you're only doing easy runs. Expecting really great form right now isn't realistic. Keep up the training and start adding in some workouts and by July you'll be running much better than you ever have.
That's compounded by the fact that you just took two weeks off. Not coming close to an all time PR after multiple weeks off is expected, and would be very shocking if you could beat that. Additionally 3.5M in 24:30 after a hard 4 miles earlier in the day isn't much worse, if at all worse, than a 6:00 mile. You're not far off where you were. One final word...don't do fitness tests on the treadmill, they are great for workouts, but not for fitness testing. You don't get any experience with pacing, there is no wind, and most importantly they are notoriously inaccurate. I've been on treadmills where I could cruise a 3M tempo in 18:00, or others where 3M in 19:30 would have been all out race pace.
In summary: You're in a good spot laying down some nice base with fitness coming along well. Just keep training, start getting some workouts in there, and focus on 1:35 as a goal time for your half marathon. You'll be running very strong by fall.
|
On May 18 2015 00:49 L_Master wrote: In summary: You're in a good spot laying down some nice base with fitness coming along well. Just keep training, start getting some workouts in there, and focus on 1:35 as a goal time for your half marathon. You'll be running very strong by fall. I second that. Train for 1:35 and if you're unsure about your fitness level a few weeks before the race squeeze in a 10k test race. I'm not familiar with Daniels' plans but many other plans include test races. Most importantly keep us up to date.
|
Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy.
Next up on the meet list: YPang.
|
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.
So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.
The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.
I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily.
|
On May 19 2015 04:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.
So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.
The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.
I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily. Damn, that's scary. Did you just lose consciousness while running?
I had an almost similar experience at my HM in the fall. I finished the race though but sat down right at the finish line and had to lie down a while under paramedic's suveillance. I puked out the water they gave me but was able to walk away after half an hour. I puked another time later that day after having dinner and sitting in a car. It was a hot day though and I had a minor viral infection that week so my body was weakend.
A HM should feel hard. You're supposed to get tired at the halfway mark and the last quarter is just pure agony because you're usually running around threshold pace. You should definitely get yourself examined by a (sport) physician if your heart or whatever has an issue.
Congrats on pushing yourself to the limit though. Best thing to get your confidence back (if you're healthy) is to get back to training and run a shorter race asap.
On May 18 2015 15:07 L_Master wrote:Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy. Next up on the meet list: YPang.
I'm jelly. Section 16 is a shitty name for a trail though.
|
On May 19 2015 05:04 Don_Julio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2015 15:07 L_Master wrote:Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy. Next up on the meet list: YPang. I'm jelly. Section 16 is a shitty name for a trail though.
Haha why is Section 16 a bad name? Makes it sound like some sketch alien place or something, works for me.
On May 19 2015 04:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.
So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.
The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.
I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily.
I'm a little unclear on whether you passed out or not. It would be nice to know medically what they said happened, while it's unlikely it's something serious, having that happen is absolutely something you should take seriously. People generally don't pass out during races, and when it does it can be related to potential heart or other health issues. This probably isn't the case, but it's something I would highly encourage you not to ignore if they didn't already give you some solid medical answers.
Without that being the issue, the next question I would have is how hot was it? If it was humid and up 70+, that may have played a role. From what you described, I'm rather doubting dehydration. You can do 2 hours of training pretty easily with no water at all, and if you came in reasonably hydrated and took on fluids I expect you were fine on that end. It's possible you went the other way and actually had to much water....which can cause its own set of trouble.
Bottom line is I don't have a good answer for you. Since you said you were feeling good with only a mile to go, I sincerely doubt it was anything related to dehydration or exhaustion. Even ignoring the fact that you took on fluids, if you are getting so dehydrated you pass out...you're going to be feeling like complete shit and your performance suffering massively.
|
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On May 19 2015 05:41 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2015 04:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.
So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.
The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.
I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily. I'm a little unclear on whether you passed out or not. It would be nice to know medically what they said happened, while it's unlikely it's something serious, having that happen is absolutely something you should take seriously. People generally don't pass out during races, and when it does it can be related to potential heart or other health issues. This probably isn't the case, but it's something I would highly encourage you not to ignore if they didn't already give you some solid medical answers. What do you mean precisely by "passed out"? I certainly do not remember falling down, or being taken care of while on the ground. In particular, I hit my face on the ground without using my hands to block my fall, so from that I assume I passed out.
Without that being the issue, the next question I would have is how hot was it? If it was humid and up 70+, that may have played a role. From what you described, I'm rather doubting dehydration. You can do 2 hours of training pretty easily with no water at all, and if you came in reasonably hydrated and took on fluids I expect you were fine on that end. It's possible you went the other way and actually had to much water....which can cause its own set of trouble. It was low 70s and quite muggy -- in fact it was actively pouring for the first six miles or so. And
It's possible I overhydrated, but is that really possible just from drinking at water stations? Each water station had both a Gatorade table and a water table, and at each station I took one Gatorade cup and one water cup.
I did have to pee at the start of the race and didn't get a chance to. The feeling subsided but then came back, and at mile 10 I ran into a port-a-potty and peed.
Bottom line is I don't have a good answer for you. Since you said you were feeling good with only a mile to go, I sincerely doubt it was anything related to dehydration or exhaustion. Even ignoring the fact that you took on fluids, if you are getting so dehydrated you pass out...you're going to be feeling like complete shit and your performance suffering massively. To be clear -- when I say I felt good, I didn't want to suggest that I could run for another few hours or so. I was definitely feeling it. I'd check my watch -- "11.1 miles" -- run for what felt like a while -- then check my watch again -- "11.2 miles" -- "GODDAMN IT". I don't think I could have held a cogent conversation (maybe I could grunt words at you though). But at no point did I think to myself, "Holy shit, I feel really bad, worse than I've ever felt during running, I need to stop." In fact I vividly remember thinking that I could/should slow down and still make my goal since I had hit mile 12 ahead of schedule. My HR (according to my watch at least) had started off in the 180s for the first 4 miles but settled into the 160s after that.
|
On May 19 2015 06:09 GrandInquisitor wrote: To be clear -- when I say I felt good, I didn't want to suggest that I could run for another few hours or so. I was definitely feeling it. I'd check my watch -- "11.1 miles" -- run for what felt like a while -- then check my watch again -- "11.2 miles" -- "GODDAMN IT". I don't think I could have held a cogent conversation (maybe I could grunt words at you though). But at no point did I think to myself, "Holy shit, I feel really bad, worse than I've ever felt during running, I need to stop." In fact I vividly remember thinking that I could/should slow down and still make my goal since I had hit mile 12 ahead of schedule. My HR (according to my watch at least) had started off in the 180s for the first 4 miles but settled into the 160s after that.
Yea, thats to be expected. You never really feel "good" at any point past somewhere between 1/4 and halfway through a race. You're working. But when I say feeling good I mean that the race is going well, you feel under control, etc. Still hurting, but still moving along.
On May 19 2015 06:09 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2015 05:41 L_Master wrote:On May 19 2015 04:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.
So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.
The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.
I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily. I'm a little unclear on whether you passed out or not. It would be nice to know medically what they said happened, while it's unlikely it's something serious, having that happen is absolutely something you should take seriously. People generally don't pass out during races, and when it does it can be related to potential heart or other health issues. This probably isn't the case, but it's something I would highly encourage you not to ignore if they didn't already give you some solid medical answers. What do you mean precisely by "passed out"? I certainly do not remember falling down, or being taken care of while on the ground. In particular, I hit my face on the ground without using my hands to block my fall, so from that I assume I passed out.
Lost consciousness. Which is definitely what happened from that description.
What was the opinion offered by the medical guys afterwords in terms of what happened?
|
On May 17 2015 20:37 WoolySheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2015 17:13 Don_Julio wrote:On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote:Hey guys, I feel like I'm being stupid and seeing as you have helped me out before, I was hoping you could help again. Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points) Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada). I was trying to determine my VDOT for current training for a half marathon in the fall. A month or more ago I was able to run a mile in 6 minutes on the treadmill, which gave me a VDOT of about 48.4 according to Jack Daniels' VDOT calculator (linked here: https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/ ) 2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday. On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles, I ended up doing 6.25 miles in total for the night run. I calculated the VDOT for the 3.5 miles at 7:03 and it came out to 45.1. Feeling dejected today I decided to run outside again and ran 5 miles in 41 min. It began to feel like I was punishing myself now....I rode my bike for 15 minutes to my parents house and a couple hours later, stopped at a track on my way back, belly full of food and ran 800m in 2:56.VDOT of 46.3 - better but I wanted 48 so badly like I had a couple months ago. It was basically the binge eating equivalent in exercising....I want to keep trying for some elusive number. I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half. Seems dumb because even a VDOT of 45 sets me up for a PB of 1:40. Have you guys been in this situation before? I am soon entering the second phase of training and wanted to see what you guys thought....I was so dejected that even after 2 weeks of major taper I wasn't any faster. My legs were sore from swimming the day before I returned home...but ARGHHHHHH. I love the science behind running which is probably why I get hung up on those VDOT numbers. I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.This is starting to sound like a whine blog but I am afraid I am going to push myself to far and end up getting injured by doing stupid training. I'll just stop and see if you guys have any words of wisdom. /end whine Yeah you get way too hung up in VDOT numbers. 1. A two week long complete break from running isn't a good taper. 2. A time trial will almost always be slower than an actual race. 3. Multiple hard efforts in succesion will put a strain on you and you'll never reach your actual potential. 4. Don't bother with shorter distances than 10k to get a guess on your HM potential. When is the half you want to run. Do you have time to get a 6-8 week training cycle for a 10k in right now? If not start your training plan and target a pace you'd be happy with. Make sure to run a test race a few weeks before the half. I think a 1:30 half would be impossible to achieve coming from a 45:10 10k. 1:30 is fucking fast in my book. How did you 40 mile weeks look like btw? 1. I know it wasn't a good taper, but I didn't really have a choice and I thought I'd at least be a little fresher. 2. noted. 3. Yeah, I was dumb, just chasing numbers. 4. noted. The half I want to run is Sept. 11/12. I was following a half marathon training plan by Jack Daniels' in his Running Formula book. Phase 2 starts to include some 200 repeats and a threshold run each week. My 40 mile weeks have been essentially easy runs with one run being about 10-13M. Would inserting a 6-8 week 10K plan mess up my training schedule? It would essentially replace my phase 2? Do you know of any good ones, or should I look online for some? Thanks for your help!
I had a similar goal as yourself a couple years ago and I pulled it off running something like 25-30 mpw with a long run of 9-10 miles. Here's what I did in terms of "hard" workouts: 1) 4-5 mile tempos at goal HM pace. 2) Sometimes 800m-1200m repeats at 5k pace with 1 lap walking recovery of the track. 3) Sometimes 400m repeats at mile pace with 1 lap walking recovery. In general I tried to make the total mileage of the 2) and 3) workouts at least 3-4 miles.
So going off what I told you, slowly introduce speed workouts and tempos into your schedule and begin to drop the total mileage as you replace one easy run session with a workout or tempo session. If you're feeling gutsy and fresh, sometime down the road you can add a second workout, though I don't recommend it because it seems to me you're already trying to do too much. Remember: when in doubt, do less.
It goes without saying that if your workout paces are so hard that you never complete the intended workout, you should dial them down.
Anyways, I'm off to play me some Witcher 3 Good luck with training.
|
|
|
|