good luck to people running races that pop up in april!
i've had a super solid 2 week period and fairly good 4 weeks looking back further, though haven't done any distance work. Of course I haven't done true long runs in my various on and off phases over the years since 2009 (only real "on" phase in 2014), pretty much just 4-6 mile tempo runs or some intervals are my go-to.
But I should do a 5k on april 18th, pretty excited for it. No idea who will show up-- my immediate area seems a bit wonky in race results. Not many 5k or 10k events per year and it seems folks are more into run+bike races and longer distance (a couple 34:00-36:00 10k runners but like a 17:30 5k would probably win the 5k, with <10 people sub 19:00)
I think I can get 18:50.
edit- the 5k on april 18th is different than I thought; a better race is an 8k on may 2 I think. gives me an excuse to show up to my local running club too since they are doing an 8k time trial the week before that. My race options really are pretty limited unless I start just making some drives to show up for half marathons and such.
Had probably the best running experience of my life yesterday running the cherry blossom 10 miler. The race course had to be shortened due to a serious accident and police investigation right before they closed roads for the event. So it went from being a ten mile event to 9.5. That kind of screwed with the possibility of me setting a new 10 mile PR, but I nailed my race pace anyway. Ran at a 7/mile average and finished 9.5 miles in 1:07:09. This is huge impovement from where I was at this time last year, I ran a 10 miler last year in just over 1:20:00.
Kicking for the finish line, a rare running pic I'm actually somewhat happy with: + Show Spoiler +
Utterly perfect conditions for running, flat course, no wind, temps in the low 40's, and for the first time in 8 years apparently the race coincided with the peak cherry blossom bloom. So the scenery was gorgeous. It's no surprise people travel from all over the country to run this race, if any of you guys are ever interested in running in DC, I HIGHLY recommend this event. Happens every year during the last weekend of the cherry blossom festival.
Man I wish every run and event was as epic as that. I was sore today, could really feel it in the legs but it was the good kind of sore.
Next up a 5K in two weeks, can't wait to shoot for sub 20:00 for the first time in my life, I'm starting to peak at a good time. The weird thing is I'm not even running huge mileage right now like 20-25mpw...diet has been making worlds of difference, been going with a mainly vegetarian diet with very little processed foods, lots of fruits, eggs, salads and some fish. Excited to see what's on the horizon when I bump my mileage back up to 40-45. Just need to find a way to stay disciplined with the diet, racing often helps keep the motivation up, but it's a tough trade off, need to recover properly too.
Oh, man, congrats LuckyFool! I had friends from Colorado also running Cherry Blossom, 'was confused about the 9.5 mile distance. They've done it two years in a row, now, always enjoyed (like you did). Rest up, good luck on the 5K. 400m repeats do wonders for that distance, if you need something to do this weekend.
Great year so far for running, I think most of us can agree? I did an impromptu 5:07 mile yesterday, feeling good (feet and Achilles are 80%+ at all times) while adding on the miles.
On April 15 2015 00:34 mtmentat wrote: Oh, man, congrats LuckyFool! I had friends from Colorado also running Cherry Blossom, 'was confused about the 9.5 mile distance. They've done it two years in a row, now, always enjoyed (like you did). Rest up, good luck on the 5K. 400m repeats do wonders for that distance, if you need something to do this weekend.
LuckyFool nailed it. Great effort.
Great year so far for running, I think most of us can agree? I did an impromptu 5:07 mile yesterday, feeling good (feet and Achilles are 80%+ at all times) while adding on the miles.
It's good to read mostly good stuff for once.
My own running is a little up and down atm. I'm nailing the interval/fartlek workouts and having fun with it but failing the tempo runs. I feel that my threshold pace is about 10 sec/km slower than what it should be compared to past performances and my other workouts. Maybe I should only have tempo runs after complete rest days. I'm not really concerned about the effect on my performance but how it will effect my will to push myself on race day. Tempo runs are usually good training for my willpower and I often recall these tempo runs when it gets tough in the last 3rd of a race. Fumbling the tempo runs might make it harder to push through the moments when I want to quit a race. Anyways. Next 10k is only two weeks away. Gonna try for a new PR. I'm also proud to report that my first black toenail of 2015 is a work almost done. @n.genuity: good luck with your 8k. Odd distance though.
congrats luckyfool! I'm sure you'll small sub-20 5k. Wear short runnings shorts and you'll get sub 19; short shorts are guaranteed to get a PR
yeah 8k is odd because the real motivation is it's a "cinco de mayo" run (5 mile) but for some reason they bothered to measure it out to 8k as if it was a college race or something (4.97 miles) instead of just doing 5 mile. Don't know how I'll do, I'm really sticking with like ~4.55 (7.32km) mile runs as my staple but I am hitting them in the 30:30 - 31:45 range, depending on the day. Basically just kept a similar pace from a month ago but increasing the distance.
re food: Hearing that really is good, I'm trying to eat more health. Since I'm a nerd and see runners hype them up online I've been trying out a whole bunch of like "oat pancakes!" or literally last night I made a greek yogurt oat banana bread. In the lamest way possible I even copied ryan hall's pancakes lol. The dude does nothing but talk about eating pancakes it seems.
Don't know how I'll do, I'm really sticking with like ~4.55 (7.32km) mile runs as my staple but I am hitting them in the 30:30 - 31:45 range, depending on the day. Basically just kept a similar pace from a month ago but increasing the distance.
That's a pretty atypical way of training, unless you're in like 16:00 shape. Otherwise that's pretty dang fast for regular mileage.
I'm sorry I've been absent from the thread, team--stuff's been happening. I'm going to catch up on my reading and post an update on my training sometime tomorrow. I'm super glad to see that this is still alive, and that L-Master seem to have returned to health!
On April 17 2015 12:49 N.geNuity wrote: Don't know how I'll do, I'm really sticking with like ~4.55 (7.32km) mile runs as my staple but I am hitting them in the 30:30 - 31:45 range, depending on the day. Basically just kept a similar pace from a month ago but increasing the distance.
FWIW, I'm reasonably confident I could clock around 15:30 on the track for 5k right now, and my PB is 16 flat. I run about 30s/km slower than you do on easy runs, and slower if I'm feeling sore from a workout.
I don't know what your training history is like, and you've gotta do what you've gotta do, but most runners break each week of training into a few different kinds of run. So if you run five times a week, you might do three easy runs, one run with some intervals, and one longer run. (I stress this is just an example.) Running the same pace and distance all the time teaches the body to run that pace for that distance and that's about it.
On April 18 2015 15:53 N.geNuity wrote: yea i know that is not any sort of quality training. I basically just get back from work and say I'll go do a 30 minute run.
Hey, if it's what you enjoy and sounds best that's really what counts. And it's not like you have bad results with it either.
I think it's just the natural tendency for us runners to go "but you could be doing X,Y,Z". In terms of running faster, you likely would be better of breaking up those 30 minute guys, just doing 5:00/km 2-3 days a week, then one day maybe a steady 4:00/km, and then another day alternating some running at 3:40/km with some 5:30/km.
Starting to get a few workouts under my belt now for BB, 3M progression averaging around 6:10, 4M tempo in 26:10, and then 5x1k yesterday w/2min jog, 5:57 avg (3:56, 3:51, 3:43, 3:35, 3:28).
If I had to guess I'd say around 19:00 5k shape on a pancake course. Short build, but my structure is probably going to be some variation of 1k/Mile repeats centered around 10k effort once a week and then another workout that is either a tempo or a mile/5k pace workout.
Diet still gives me trouble. I was on a good roll from January into April, but had a little bit of candy on Easter and...booom. Insanity was back, eating like crazy and put on about 5lbs in a couple weeks. Still down from where I was in January and back to eating good, but obviously a ways from where I would like to be.
Thinking goal for BB is going to be 39:xx, but I'll have to see how the workouts go. I've obviously been cycling a bunch, but I'm still in low 19s shape off of about 10mpw of running. Should be fun!
I'm super glad to see that this is still alive, and that L-Master seem to have returned to health!
To be honest, I never really felt injured, I just had some nagging stuff in January/Feb that was enough to make me not feel comfortable going after workouts. Then it got late enough that I didn't have time for a cycle for the key spring races, so I just focused on cycling for the time being since there were a couple good cycling races in that time frame.
People have any thoughts on the boston field? American-wise I guess most eyes are on Dathan Ritzenhein (well everyone will be on meb). As a side note, delved into the letsrun forums about a variety of topics, and damn there is some mighty fine trolling going on there, or just general toxicity.
in my own running I got wrecked by deciding to go ahead and do my company's blood drive this cycle (it's every 10 weeks or so). I've done blood drives before in my working life/university but generally kind of around periods where I just took a week off or something from my 2-3 times a week light jogs. Not when I had a consistent (albeit still not optimized in any sense) progress, at least in terms of setting up a bit of a routine in my daily scheduling.
On April 20 2015 03:24 N.geNuity wrote: People have any thoughts on the boston field? American-wise I guess most eyes are on Dathan Ritzenhein (well everyone will be on meb). As a side note, delved into the letsrun forums about a variety of topics, and damn there is some mighty fine trolling going on there, or just general toxicity.
in my own running I got wrecked by deciding to go ahead and do my company's blood drive this cycle (it's every 10 weeks or so). I've done blood drives before in my working life/university but generally kind of around periods where I just took a week off or something from my 2-3 times a week light jogs. Not when I had a consistent (albeit still not optimized in any sense) progress, at least in terms of setting up a bit of a routine in my daily scheduling.
Yea a blood drive can do that. I've heard it's not so bad for easy runs, but really can mess you up with workouts and recovery. Never experienced it myself.
As for Boston; I don't think an American will win, outside of an outside shot of Shalane winning. Definitely no American winner on the mens side.
If I was going to pick I'd say Desisa and Deba, though I wish I knew more about Deba's DNF in NYC half. The men's side is tricky because Makau is a bit of a darkhorse. If he shows in a great shape he could definitely be a contender.
For American's I'll predict Meb, Dathan, Arciniaga in that order. For women I'll go with Shalane, Linden, Hastings.
If I'm supposed to be running my training runs at "easy" pace, how will I know whether I'm capable of actually running my race pace?
For context, I'm shooting for 2hours at my first half marathon on May 16. My long runs are currently around 10:30 to 11:30 min per mile -- sometimes they are truly ridiculously easy, and other times my feet feel like lead and I can barely make it. I'm just worried I have one of those terrible days on race day, and then there's no way I can somehow ratchet up a gear and do race pace.
On April 21 2015 03:59 GrandInquisitor wrote: If I'm supposed to be running my training runs at "easy" pace, how will I know whether I'm capable of actually running my race pace?
For context, I'm shooting for 2hours at my first half marathon on May 16. My long runs are currently around 10:30 to 11:30 min per mile -- sometimes they are truly ridiculously easy, and other times my feet feel like lead and I can barely make it. I'm just worried I have one of those terrible days on race day, and then there's no way I can somehow ratchet up a gear and do race pace.
First, it's worth nothing if that if you're in the neighborhood of 2:00 shape (25:30 5k/53:00 10k) and are out running 11:00 pace you absolutely can pick it up. If you can't there are only a few possibilities: 1) you've got your fitness heavily overestimated, 2) something is really messed up with your fueling/sleep/energy. Most likely it's neither of those and even though it seems like you can't you'd be surprised what would happen if you started running 9:30 pace.
Worth noting all of your runs ideally aren't' supposed to be at an easy pace. There should be days where you're training much faster, for instance you might have a day where you do 2x3M in 27 min each. Or a 6xMile workout run at 8:30-8:40 per mile, etc.
Easy days can sometimes feel "not that easy" as well in the middle of a training cycle, especially coming off of workouts. As you freshen up and lower the mileage a bit the week before the race that feeling will go away. Just the adrenaline enough of race day alone is enough to ensure that doesn't happen.
Bottom line is that if you're training consistently and are in the neighborhood of 2:00 half marathon shape there is no way 2:20 pace is going to be a struggle on race day.
Thanks. I thought that your training runs were supposed to be a minute to two minutes behind your race pace? So as a result I run most of my training days at the can-talk-but-not-sing pace, which on some days is 10:00, and on other days is 11:30. You might be right that it's more of a mental issue than a physical one. But now I'm rethinking my approach of "easy running"...I haven't integrated any speed work and have been doing Hal Higdon Novice 2.
You have the correct approach to easy pace. Don't change that. Your plan has "pace runs" in it which are your workouts. HM pace is approximately threshold pace so it's a quality workout. Recent race results at other distances are good ways to get a good guess at your possible HM time. That's one of the reasons Hal Higdon added the test race over 5k and 10k. In my experience this calculator is spot on: http://mcmillanrunning.com/
On April 21 2015 22:52 GrandInquisitor wrote: Thanks. I thought that your training runs were supposed to be a minute to two minutes behind your race pace? So as a result I run most of my training days at the can-talk-but-not-sing pace, which on some days is 10:00, and on other days is 11:30. You might be right that it's more of a mental issue than a physical one. But now I'm rethinking my approach of "easy running"...I haven't integrated any speed work and have been doing Hal Higdon Novice 2.
General rule of thumb is easy runs should be about 30-45% slower than 5k race pace. 30% is definitely on the quicker side of easy, and 45% should be getting towards that super easy recovery territory. Which is more or less in line with what you wrote.
One thing to note is that easy run pace should stem from current fitness, not goal fitness. If one sets an ambitious goal race pace and then sets easy paces based on that those easy runs could be quite salty.
I'll be honest though and say I'm not a fan of that schedule if you're looking to be well prepared for a half. I see it as being good for two people: those that are brand new to running and have some burning desire to complete a half OR those that want to be able to survive a half with as near minimal effort as possible.
The biggest week in the schedule tops out at 23 miles, with most in the teens, and the mileage hardly increases over the program. That's low mileage for running a mile race, let alone a half marathon. The lack of workouts is one thing, especially for a newer running trying to balance building global volume with getting in solid workouts, but that's almost so low as to not be training. There are only 4 weeks left so no need to go crazy, but my personal recommendation would be something like this in the 4 weeks leading up to the race:
With that training schedule in mind, have you felt crappy/weak/heavy legs on your long runs, or have you felt terrible on the 3-5 mile runs as well? My guess is that it's more on the long runs, but let me know.
Terrible on the long runs. Once in a while I have a bad short run if I haven't eaten well beforehand / didn't sleep, but I don't think much of those.
I have a 10 mile race the first weekend of May. I was going to treat it like a standard training run, but perhaps I should tryhard there and see if I am anywhere near the goal pace per McMillan's calculator to realistically hit a 2hr half? It may be, like you pointed out, that I'm just way overestimating my fitness. The calculator says 90 minutes for 10 miles is the goal if I want to do a 2hr half.
On April 22 2015 03:30 GrandInquisitor wrote: Terrible on the long runs. Once in a while I have a bad short run if I haven't eaten well beforehand / didn't sleep, but I don't think much of those.
I have a 10 mile race the first weekend of May. I was going to treat it like a standard training run, but perhaps I should tryhard there and see if I am anywhere near the goal pace per McMillan's calculator to realistically hit a 2hr half? It may be, like you pointed out, that I'm just way overestimating my fitness. The calculator says 90 minutes for 10 miles is the goal if I want to do a 2hr half.
Thanks guys.
4 weeks out from the race it wouldn't hurt to find a 5k/10k local race either this week or next and see what you can do. Come back and we can help with setting a realistic goal pace. Worst case scenario is you go out a bit conservative, feel strong at mile 8-10, and let it rip the last 5k ending feeling strong. Much better than going out harder than you're prepared for a having a crappy death march in for the last 5 miles.
As for the bolded section, I now understand what's going on and that sounds like what I would expect. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the first few miles tend to feel fine, but then by mile 5 or 6 it really starts to feel not so great. That's why I dislike that particular training plan, and is generally what happens when you try to run 50, 60, 70% of the weekly mileage in one long run. It's just way too much mileage in a single run. Even for marathon training a long run of 30% of weekly mileage is considered a pretty darn big run. Over 50% is massive.
Long runs are nice if you have the global volume to support them, but I'd argue that even for a marathon they aren't that important. 40-50 miles a week with a 10 mile long run beats the heck out of 30 miles a week with a 15 mile long run any day of the week.
All that said, I don't want to scare you either. You're not going to struggle to finish the race or anything provided you go out at a reasonable tempo. You'll be tired at the end...but who isn't after a half marathon.
Welp, just did my 5 mile run at 9:30, and felt amazingly fine. Like I could go on forever. My wife suggests that it might have just been some extenuating circumstances on the longer runs.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GK7u30R.jpg)
