**TeamLiquid now has a group on what I consider to be the best GPS/logging site out there: Strava. You can join the group here: http://www.strava.com/clubs/Teamliquid**
A thread for all my fellow TL'ers who run. A place to discuss goals, training, racing, motivation; anything related to running. Should be a little easier now that everything won't get lost in all the traffic of one mega-thread.
For those new to running their are a few common mistakes that many people make. The first is just plain doing too much, too soon. A general guideline reference is to increase mileage about 10% per week, with every 3/4 week being a cutback week of maybe 50-75% of the distance you just achieved. Obviously some people can increase much faster than this, and others will get an injury even following these guidelines. For people new to running its safe to add a day per week until your running 6/7 days a week, stay at the previous weeks number of days if that week felt particularly demanding.
The other common mistake is running too hard. Perhaps because of PE/sports/etc. their is this mentality of "no pain, no gain" when running. This is wrong. Especially for beginner the key is adjusting to running and finding some enjoyment out of it. This probably won't happen if your hammering every run at 5K pace - 10 seconds. If you EVER have to take a break to walk (and its just not immense fatigue from long distance) your running WAY to hard. To give some basic guidelines if you can RACE a mile in:
5:00 - Normal running @ 7:00-7:45 pace/mile 5:30 - Normal running @ 7:30-8:45 pace/mile 6:00 - Normal running @ 8:15-9:00 pace/mile 6:30 - Normal running @ 9:00-9:45 pace/mile 7:00 - Normal running @ 9:30-10:15 pace/mile 7:30 - Normal running @ 10:15-11:00 pace/mile 8:00 - Normal running @ 11:00-11:45 pace/mile 8:30 - Normal running @ 11:30-12:15 pace/mile 9:00 - Normal running @ 12:15-13:00 pace/mile 10:00 - Normal running @ 13:30-14:15 pace/mile 12:00 - Normal running @ 16:00-17:00 pace/mile
For those totally new to running that have been sedentary/non-athletic most their life here is one of the best introductions to running out there: Couch to 5K
For those that have maintained a minimal level of activity beyond being sedentary its reasonable to jump in at 3-4 days a week of 3-4 miles. Progressing by adding a day per week until you reach 6 or 7 days per week. Mileage can be increased from there.
General recommendation for most injuries is if the pain lessens, and perhaps if its mild and doesn't intensify you can continue to run on it. If the pain increases as you run, definitely stop. Nothing like turning a mild case of achilles tendinitis into a long term case of prolonged achilles tendinosis.
You really have to listen to your body on these though. For the non-competitive runner running for fitness, its probably wise to just play it safe and take a a day or two off at any hints of injury. If your training competitively or for an important event then you really just need to try to listen to and judge the injury. Obvious training with anything other than routine soreness runs the risk of turning something minor into something serious, however, if you break training for every possible suggestion of injury you probably won't put together very good blocks of training.
Racing Flat/Flat - Very lightweight shoes designed for long distance racing Trainer - Standard, heavier, and generally more supportive shoe used primarily for training due to wearing out less frequently than thinner racing flats
Easy Run - light run for general aerobic development; usually can converse easily with a partner, breathing rhythm usually around 2/2-3/3. Typically 60-75% of max heart rate. Marathon Pace/M-Pace/Aerobic Threshold Pace - usually fastest aerobic pace, obviously pace at which you could run for a marathon. Approx 40-60 second slower than 5K race pace Tempo/T-Pace Run - A common term that refers to several different run types. Tempo's typically have three popular durations, 20-30 min, 40-60 min, and extended tempos of 60-80 min. Correct pacing is around 5K+20-25 seconds per mile for short ones, 5K+35-40 seconds per mile for the medium, and 5K+50-60 seconds per mile for the longer ones. Reps - Fast track intervals @ around mile race pace w/recovery time twice that of repeat (400m in 75 seconds = 150 second slow jog recovery). Used to build economy at speed and make fast paces seem easier Intervals/V02 Max Interval - Longer repeats at slower pace with less recovery. Usually 1:1 recovery/repeat at around 3K-5K race pace (1200m in 3:30 w/3:30 jog recovery). Long Run - run longer than typical for YOUR mileage. Usually around 20% of weekly mileage (aka runner running 60mpw might run around 11-13 miles for a long run) Fartlek - Swedish for "speed play". A run that can be pretty much whatever a runner wants. Can involve just picking random targets and running as hard as desired toward them and then recovery for however long you want, or can be structured as in 2 min "ON", 2 min "OFF". Strides - Short pickups of about 50-100m done anywhere from 400m-1600m race pace. Serve to "stay in touch" with speed and maintain neuromuscular coordination for fast paces. NOT meant to be hard.
Kick - runners strong finish to the end of a race; crucial to winning championship races which are generally slower and more tactical in nature Tactial Race - typically slower pace, refers to a race in which different runners try to force the race to their strengths. Ex: a super fast runner might want to wait till 100m to go before kicking hard for home, while the slower, but stronger runner might really pick up the pace with 400m+ to go and try to "run the kick out of" the faster runner. Move - An increase in speed to either pass runners, obtain position, or make a move for the win. It's said you get one move in the 800m, 2 in the 1500m, and 3 in the 5000m/10000m Surge - Increase in pace of the race by a runner Stagger - difference in starting places to account for varying radius of the curves in races that are fixed lane or partially fixed lane. Turnover - basically a runners stride, turnover essentially referring to the length and rate of stride Cadence - Steps per minute Mileage - miles run, usually given as a weekly value MPW, mpw - miles per week Raw Speed - Most common measure is an athletes 200m time Speed - Generally refers to top end gear, but for distance runners is often cited as 400m speed. Ex: A world class 800m runner likely has 45-47 second speed V02 Max - measure of maximum oxygen uptake vV02 max - Velocity at V02 Max, lowest speed at which an athlete is at maximum oxygen consumption. Usually occurs between 3K and 5K pace Anaerobic Threshold - inflection point on the lactic acid accumulation curve, at which point blood levels of lacate increase significantly faster. Usually around high end tempo pace, a little slower than 10K pace. Bonk - usually applies to marathon, occurs when a runner goes out to hard and deplets glycogen too soon resulting in a massive increase in speed and major pace drop off Elite - top level runner LSD - long, slow distance Negative Split - last half of race faster than first Overpronate - Higher than normal amount of inward roll of the foot Heelstrike - generally undesirable stride in which the foot lands forward of center of gravity resulting in a braking effect and extra stress Splits - Times at specific distances. Ex: in a 5K might have splits read every K, in a mile splits might be read every 400m World Best - best time for an event without official world records, or a non-ratified world record. Ex: marathon world record is 2:03:59, world best is 2:03:02 World Lead - best time run for an event in that calendar year NR - National Record
Your head and neck should look as if you were standing still as someone was measuring your height and you want to squeeze in every extra millimeter possible. Your head should be up tall and your eyes should be looking straight ahead. It helps to focus on an object in the near distance that you are aiming for. If you are racing stare at the back of a runner a little ahead of you. Do not stare at the ground because it will likely mess up the form of your midsection.
Arms
While you are swinging your arms visualize there is a vertical line in the middle of your chest. Do not cross any part of either arm over to the other side. Also make sure your arms are not swinging too far to the outside on the other side of your body. Keep your arms swinging between your imaginary vertical chest line and your shoulder. Your right arm should be between your right shoulder and the vertical chest line and your left arm should be between your left shoulder and the chest line.
Keep your elbows bent at about 45 degrees. Your elbows should not be doing much bending or straightening as you are running; keep them at close to 45 degrees the whole time.
Maintain stable wrists throughout your movements. Do not bend them in any way.
Keep your hands in a loose fist. If they are too tight you will be using unnecessary energy and if they are too lose you will look like a not as cool T-1000. Maybe if you're a sprinter you can do the T-1000 with your hands completely straight, but not as a distance runner. I like to keep my thumbs on the top and outside of my pointer finger rather than wrapping around a fist. Your thumb will be straight and pointing away from you if you do it this way. Doing it like this helps me focus on keeping a loose hand and straight wrist.
Chest/Back
Your chest should be just as it would be if you were standing still, straight, and tall. Your back will be straight as well. If you find that you are leaning forward, make sure you are looking ahead of you rather than below you. Also, you may have weak abdominal muscles that prevent you from running up straight and tall. I ran like this for the first couple of years when I started because I had no abs.
Hips
Keep your hips underneath you and forward you as if you're banging a hot girl and you're about to ejaculate. Practice this in front of a mirror without a shirt when nobody else is around or someone you are trying to impress IS around. Keeping your hips forward will help your body drive forward.
Legs
This is where most runners tend to need the most work. You should be hitting about 3 strides per second when you are running at a moderately fast to fast pace. This means that your feet are striking the ground at a rate of 3 steps per second. This is the most efficient way to run for distance runners but is difficult and probably not worth doing if you're not running fast (relative to your own ability). But the next time you are running faster, whether it's a tempo run, strides, or whatever, try this out. Count how many steps you take in 10 seconds. How close is it to 30? You probably need to be taking more and shorter steps.
Pick up your feet as soon as they hit the ground. It sounds obvious but really make an effort to think about this as you are running. The longer your feet stay on the ground the more momentum you are losing. Keep them legs moving fast and forward. Try running in place with this principle in mind.
Pick up your feet higher than where you perceive your knee to be. While some people (usually old people) prefer the marathon shuffle, keeping your legs moving in a more circular manner, you can increase your efficiency as long as you use all of these leg tips together. Just go watch some videos of elite distance runners to get a visual or this or anything else being described. Most elites have excellent form, specifically in the beginning of races before they get too tired. This is another technique that is difficult to do unless you are running fast. But when you are running fast this will make you fast AND smooth.
This last tip can be debated but I'll lay it down anyway. Strike the ground with your mid foot. Heel striking is very common and the normal way most people run when they slip on running shoes. This is interesting because if you run barefoot you will be mid foot striking. Try it out. I am a believer in the benefits of barefoot and minimalist shoe training, but that is a topic for another time. I still think a mid foot strike to be the best bet here. Not only is it the most natural way for humans to run but it also keeps your feet on the ground for less time. Remember that you are fighting inertia and need to keep your feet off the ground and your legs driving forward.
American<->SI Pace Conversion Tool (credit: Malinor) + Show Spoiler +
2)Nutrition - less soda (aiming to reduce down to 2 cans per wk or less), less % of cals from junk food 3)Work on speed/strength - NOP stength/prehab routine, plyometrics/oly. lift work/hill sprints 4) Time Goals:
Spring - Sub 5:00 mile, sub 18 5k
*Added a section to the OP for training logs. If you log your running online in an accessible form feel free to post your log up and I will add them to the OP.*
2014 was...an acceptable year. It was good in many ways, the best of which is that I actually made a return to health for running. It's really, really special to be able to do that again after missing almost 2 years from mid 2012 to early/mid 2014. I was also generally pleased with the consistency of my training, as I averaged about 10 hrs/wk and didn't miss much. Made some nice progress in cycling, and ran a couple good races in the early summer.
That said, it wasn't entirely the year I wanted either. I didn't do a good job with my eternal struggle with diet. If I'm actually going to run, or ride, well that absolutely has to change. There aren't 5'8" 160 (1.73, 74kg) guys at the front of the pack in endurance sports for a reason. Not to mention the high sugar intake murders your ability to recover from workouts. Fixing diet is something I've been talking about for 5 years or something stupid like that, and I want this to be the year I finally change that. I'll be very disappointed if I look back at this thread in 365 days and I'm still eating somewhere between crap/mediocre.
The other thing that wasn't so hot about 2014 was I never put together a training cycle. I more or less just went out and did easy/aerobic efforts with an occasional tempo thrown in randomly. Same for the bike. That works good when you're new, but not so hot when you've been at it for several years or more. With that in mind I've got some pretty specific goals in mind.
On the running front the goal is to run well, at least sub 18, at St. Patricks Day 5k in March. Running is the prime focus until then, and I've got a pretty outline for the training I want to do.
After that, the game-plan is to focus on cycling over the summer and see where I get. Based on what I can do now, and power/weight ratio I think I can get to, I think I have the ability to be very, very good on the bike. Good enough that it's sufficiently enticing to give it a serious shot in the spring/summer. My goal races there are the major hill climbs here in Colorado (Lookout Mountain, Sunshine HC, Guanella Pass, Mt. Evans, Pikes Peak) culminating in Pikes Peak. It's what I'm strongest at, and gives me plenty of time to improve my worthless bike handling skills before diving headfirst into a race without being comfortable riding in a bunch, descending, etc.
After that, it's pretty up in the air. Most likely I'd come back for another running season in the fall...but I'll know that better in 7 months.
Curious to hear what the rest of you are gunning for this year. Except for Bonham because I already know he is doing secret trainings preparing to give Kimetto's record a nice spanking.
On January 01 2015 19:54 L_Master wrote: Let's do this gentlemen. Time to crush this year.
2014 was...an acceptable year. It was good in many ways, the best of which is that I actually made a return to health for running. It's really, really special to be able to do that again after missing almost 2 years from mid 2012 to early/mid 2014. I was also generally pleased with the consistency of my training, as I averaged about 10 hrs/wk and didn't miss much. Made some nice progress in cycling, and ran a couple good races in the early summer.
That said, it wasn't entirely the year I wanted either. I didn't do a good job with my eternal struggle with diet. If I'm actually going to run, or ride, well that absolutely has to change. There aren't 5'8" 160 (1.73, 74kg) guys at the front of the pack in endurance sports for a reason. Not to mention the high sugar intake murders your ability to recover from workouts. Fixing diet is something I've been talking about for 5 years or something stupid like that, and I want this to be the year I finally change that. I'll be very disappointed if I look back at this thread in 365 days and I'm still eating somewhere between crap/mediocre.
The other thing that wasn't so hot about 2014 was I never put together a training cycle. I more or less just went out and did easy/aerobic efforts with an occasional tempo thrown in randomly. Same for the bike. That works good when you're new, but not so hot when you've been at it for several years or more. With that in mind I've got some pretty specific goals in mind.
On the running front the goal is to run well, at least sub 18, at St. Patricks Day 5k in March. Running is the prime focus until then, and I've got a pretty outline for the training I want to do.
After that, the game-plan is to focus on cycling over the summer and see where I get. Based on what I can do now, and power/weight ratio I think I can get to, I think I have the ability to be very, very good on the bike. Good enough that it's sufficiently enticing to give it a serious shot in the spring/summer. My goal races there are the major hill climbs here in Colorado (Lookout Mountain, Sunshine HC, Guanella Pass, Mt. Evans, Pikes Peak) culminating in Pikes Peak. It's what I'm strongest at, and gives me plenty of time to improve my worthless bike handling skills before diving headfirst into a race without being comfortable riding in a bunch, descending, etc.
After that, it's pretty up in the air. Most likely I'd come back for another running season in the fall...but I'll know that better in 7 months.
Curious to hear what the rest of you are gunning for this year. Except for Bonham because I already know he is doing secret trainings preparing to give Kimetto's record a nice spanking.
woot great! looking forwards to this year as well.
I too would like to use more periodization in my training, So gonna do that by getting most of aerobic easy workouts in the winter and transition into harder tempo and interval workouts as the year progresses and gets closer to race season.
Also want to clean up my diet as well. The only times when i really eat bad is when i go home with my parents during the holidays where they have chips (Fatty foods that are crunchy + salty like bacon and chips are so addictive!) and candy or stuff like that in the house. And if it's in the house and within my reach i'm gonna eat it lol. I also sometimes eat too much healthy food as well, like i'd make a huge bowl of pasta and eat till i'm bloated, usually prone to do that after a tough or long workouts.
Do you still ride on a indoor spin bike or did you invest in a actual road bike?
Also who is eric morgan on strava page, i'd follow him back if i knew who he was!, and he's killing it. I think it'll be a good idea to match the TL alias with the names on strava so we can see whose doing what workouts and stuff if people don't mind revealing their real names .
So my baseline right now is Swimming I can comfortably swim at 1:35 per 100meters, or roughly 1:27 per 100 yards. Just started swimming 7-8 hours a week, hopefully after a few more weeks i can see more improvement in the swim. Bike: I bought a power meter in 2014 yay, and right now in the off season I test 1 hour race pace watts of 282 aka i can hold 282 watts for 1 hour aka FTP (functional threshold pace). I'm also 147lbs right now at 5'8. so that leaves me at a 4.22 watts/kilo Run: running was my first sport, and in the past year i've struggled to see progress, however, after my last cross country season, and a 2 week break i rebuilt running again. Now i can run at like a lot faster easy runs with much less effort. Some days if i'm feeling good I can run like a 6:49min/mile on a cruise probably also due to the fact i lost some muscle weight.
Goals 2015, main goal is to get top 25 in my age group and olympic distance nationals to qualify for ITU world's. Swim: Looking at last year's results, gonna have to swim 1:30/100m or hold 1:25/100 yrds for 1500meters. Bike: Increase my current FTP from 282 watts to 300-310 watts. Also drop 2 more lbs to race weight of 145lbs. Therefore making it 4.55 watts per kilo. Run: I'd love to run a 35:39 or 5:45min/mile for 10k on the track. a 1:18 13.1, and a 37min 10k off the bike.
I've ran at 5:45 pace for a 8k on a cross country course this past season, so after some weight loss and more speed work that should be within reach.
Also break 4hr 30min in a 70.3 in june.
I'm also going to boulder Co, from early sept to early october for a rotation site. Looking forwards to train hard over there as well! Good luck to everyone on their 2015 season
Also who is eric morgan on strava page, i'd follow him back if i knew who he was!, and he's killing it.
Do you still ride on a indoor spin bike or did you invest in a actual road bike?
2014 Cannondale CAAD 10 for $1100. Really happy with the bike so far, road bikes are insanely fun...and I shudder to think how much more fun they will be when I can actually descend.
Bike: I bought a power meter in 2014 yay, and right now in the off season I test 1 hour race pace watts of 282 aka i can hold 282 watts for 1 hour aka FTP (functional threshold pace). I'm also 147lbs right now at 5'8. so that leaves me at a 4.22 watts/kilo
Power meter is glorious. Got one of ebay (Powertap SL4+) for about $150. Some seriously well spent money.
You've got the edge on me right now with numbers. Last time I did a 20 min test I did 290W, though I suspect I could have hit 295/300 with better pacing as the climb I did was very undulating and I was constantly having spots where I'd drop to like 220 for a sec when the road flattened, hammer to make it up, rinse and repeat.
Goal wise I want to ride Evan's in 2:05 or better, and the Peak in 1:15 or better. Both of those require in the 4.2 w/kg range as far as I can tell.
Power wise I'm optimistically hoping I can get to 315W for 20 min test, which combined with a lower 60kg weight ought to get me close to 5 w/kg for 20 min. Given that I'm at altitude that should give me reasonable power to be competitive this year.
I'd love to run a 35:39 or 5:45min/mile for 10k on the track
I've ran at 5:45 pace for a 8k on a cross country course
Good chance you can run this on the track right now. The pace difference between an 8k and a 10k is not that large, and cross country courses are anywhere from somewhat slower to significantly slower than the track.
You'll definitely be going lower than that with another good training cycle in.
Given that 10k fitness, you'll have a real good shot at cracking 1:18. Wouldn't be surprised to see 1:15-1:16 type stuff if you have a good build up.
Since I know who most everyone is on Strava, just post here if you're okay with me putting you on a list of TL users matched to strava accounts. If I don't here from you I won't put you on said list.
I started running outdoors for the first time this past summer and really enjoyed it. I was running 2-3 times a week then and now I run about once a week in the winter time. I'm a pretty overweight guy (176 cm and hover between 85-89 kg - 5'10" and 185-195 lbs) so I was pretty happy with my 5 km time being about 25-26 minutes and my 10 km time being around 52-53:00 minutes. These days my weight is back on the higher end of the scale (87-88 kg) and I just run 5 kms at ~27:00 mins. Next summer I'm hoping to drop down to about 82 kg and hopefully get my 5 km down to ~22-24 mins.
@L_Master: you can post my Strava name here. You could also drop the "American<->SI Pace Conversion Tool (credit: Malinor)" from the OP, since the Download is not available anymore (it wasn't downloaded much anyway, so I won't put it back up).
My new year started out wonderfully with a 17k hill run in the snow on New Year's Day. Basically from elevation 250m up to 650m and down again. It was amazing.
This year I want to make the transformation from looking ok to looking great. Some of you that have been on TL for a couple of years know that I used to weigh ~170kg. Right know I am around 106kg at 1.80m. I can pull that of since I am quite muscular (here is pics of me at ~99kg: www.liquidhearth.com), but there is obvioulsy room for improvement.
Goals: This year I want to drop down to below 200lb (90,7kg). I am not really a runner, just a sportive guy in general. Maybe half way through the year I choose to pick up lifting weights again. But at the moment running is my weapon of choice, plus stationary bike workouts and some bodyweight training (Chins, Dips, etc.). I want to run 5k below 23min. In September there is a Triathlon in Cologne and I consider taking part - though I am AWFUL at swimming and would need some lessons / training, and the reality of my job simply might not allow that to happen. We'll see. I have no illusions about fixing my diet. My habits have been fucked up from a young age and I won't be able to get rid of my cola addiction. The goal here is just to keep everything reasonable, like I have done for most of the time during the last two years. And I want to make that one last push to shred another 15-16kg of bodyweight.
Well, 2014 I started out very solid then fell off the wagon, so I just hope to stay strong this year
last year had a 18:15 5k in april time (should have been sub 18:00 imo), so I hope I can repeat that. In a lot of ways, my schedule can be more routine this year, so I just want to take small steps and not get ahead of myself as I get back into shape!
Simple goal for january: I'm going to go run on the lonely dreadmill (or outdoor runs if it is not too cold on the weekend) every, single, day. No excuses. "5k a day" is what I thought in my head as I ran just an hour ago. Just aiming for a 25-30 minute run, take things steady and consistent, and not rush into anything.
N.geNuity I wondered what happened to you. Seemed on track to start workin down deep into the 17s and then just went quiet. Life has a way of interfering with training sometimes though.
Sounds like a good gameplan coming back, I don't know if you've struggled with consistency in the past but getting in a nice routine where it becomes a habit to get out the door can go along ways.
I saw this thread, and wanted to thank you L_Master. I was some random guy who came into the 2014 thread looking for beginner running advice months ago. I then proceeded to give up running after a couple of weeks, too fat and unfit and deconditioned to run for more than a couple of minutes. But now I'm much thinner, have more leg strength, more cardio endurance, and have started it back up again as an adjunct to my strength training. Your advice about pacing (Run as slow as you have to, keep an aerobic pace) is finally achievable for me. I had my first genuine run yesterday, rather than just a run-walk cycle. And I had your advice at the front of my mind for the whole thing. "Don't worry about going quickly, just don't stop." I ran for 14 minutes without stopping, and it was amazing, even at a really slow (9:30 mile) pace.
Just wanted you to know that your advice really helped, and it's given me an enormous surge of motivation going forward to know that I can actually RUN. Thank you so much. Now I can work on increasing distance and speed over time. The world of running has officially opened up to me, and it's mostly thanks to you.
On January 02 2015 18:05 L_Master wrote: Sounds like a good gameplan coming back, I don't know if you've struggled with consistency.
Yea i havent ran consistently through my time at university (or really at all until the last 1.75 years there, only last 7 months did well). But a lot of life things happened in 2014 for me. The summer I died off as I just couldnt muster the hype of waking up at like 430 am to avoid summer heat (it gets like 90-105 F where im at) and I didnt like trying to run at like 2100 consistently due to sleep. On july 4th i had the day off and tried a run at like 0900 and said never again :/. Now I probably can wake up before work for me.
Once it stops getting dark at 1615 I can stop by the local running club where im at in the evenings (once per week formally).
Just small steps, one thing at a time, and getting a schedule in 2015 for me ^.^
I can get a strava later in the year but I literally pkan on 5k a day for january. Pretty easy to track
On January 02 2015 18:05 L_Master wrote: Sounds like a good gameplan coming back, I don't know if you've struggled with consistency.
I can get a strava later in the year but I literally pkan on 5k a day for january. Pretty easy to track
Be careful to not run too much. Rest days are important. I'd say a four days a week schedule is easier to achieve and safer. You could run 10k at sundays to get some variation and to get used to longer distances. If 7 runs per week work for you do it - just listen to your body and get rest if needed. ____
I just came back from a five day trip to Halle and Berlin with amazing news which determine my running goals for this year: My friends got me signed up for the Berlin Marathon as a christmas present. I didn't plan to run the 42k this year and I would not have chosen Berlin as my first ever marathon but now that my so called friends are forcing me to run this thing I'm more than happy to get it done. My original goal was to get as close to 39:59 at the 10k as possible. Possibly getting there in the fall. Well, now with the Berlin Marathon on the horizon I'll have an entirely different focus. I'll probably allow myself to run my yearly local running cup in the spring and get some fast 10k times. The next two months are all about increasing mileage while staying injury free.
You can still have an excellent spring season to focus on getting that 10k down sub 40 before starting your marathon buildup in late spring/early summer.
Good opportunity to run a nice marathon too, no faster course than Berlin with the possible exception of Dubai. Not to mention you'll be on a course where there may yet be another WR to watch.
I just started running on and off this past September, and now I'm looking to make running a weekly thing for me. I was actually doing pretty well before finals came rolling around for me, and then I started to just eat eat and eat over winter break....
...fast forward 3 weeks, I'm basically back to where I started in September -____-. At least my joints aren't killing me this time.
Quick question though: it's gotten considerably colder, and now it's starting to really hurt when I breath after about 5 minutes. Is this normal, or is there something I can do to fix this?
On January 03 2015 18:30 imBLIND wrote: I just started running on and off this past September, and now I'm looking to make running a weekly thing for me. I was actually doing pretty well before finals came rolling around for me, and then I started to just eat eat and eat over winter break....
...fast forward 3 weeks, I'm basically back to where I started in September -____-. At least my joints aren't killing me this time.
Quick question though: it's gotten considerably colder, and now it's starting to really hurt when I breath after about 5 minutes. Is this normal, or is there something I can do to fix this?
Depends on how cold we are talking about. If we are talking well below zero then that could certainly be an issue, but I don't hear too much about breathing issues for temps in the 20s or 30s.
Got a half marathon coming up in 64 days. Right now I run about 50 minutes @ 11km/h with 2 training days a week. Probably need to add an extra training day. Will miss more than a week due to wintersports as well.
Are you shipwrecked with your bike and GPS device on an island or what are you doing in the middle of the ocean L_Master?
On January 03 2015 20:46 Meat wrote: Got a half marathon coming up in 64 days. Right now I run about 50 minutes @ 11km/h with 2 training days a week. Probably need to add an extra training day. Will miss more than a week due to wintersports as well.
Two days isn't enough. You need that extra day. Introduce it asap and use one of your running days to run a little further than usual. You want to get this long run to up to about 18k at least. Look for a program: www.myascis.us while not ideal is a good place for a beginner
On January 03 2015 18:30 imBLIND wrote: I just started running on and off this past September, and now I'm looking to make running a weekly thing for me. I was actually doing pretty well before finals came rolling around for me, and then I started to just eat eat and eat over winter break....
...fast forward 3 weeks, I'm basically back to where I started in September -____-. At least my joints aren't killing me this time.
Quick question though: it's gotten considerably colder, and now it's starting to really hurt when I breath after about 5 minutes. Is this normal, or is there something I can do to fix this?
Depends on how cold we are talking about. If we are talking well below zero then that could certainly be an issue, but I don't hear too much about breathing issues for temps in the 20s or 30s.
Concerning the breathing issue i think it really depends, i have some really mild asthma that is triggered by physical exercise and cold/humid temperatures. It would mostly happen at the beginning or if i went to fast, but now i have a treatment that i take before running and and it feels much better, i don't feel like someone is squeezing my windpipe the first 20 minutes i'm running ^^. It looks like you may have something similar to me, maybe it's worth it do discuss it with a doctor if it's really a problem.
On January 04 2015 01:25 Don_Julio wrote: Are you shipwrecked with your bike and GPS device on an island or what are you doing in the middle of the ocean L_Master?
On January 03 2015 20:46 Meat wrote: Got a half marathon coming up in 64 days. Right now I run about 50 minutes @ 11km/h with 2 training days a week. Probably need to add an extra training day. Will miss more than a week due to wintersports as well.
Two days isn't enough. You need that extra day. Introduce it asap and use one of your running days to run a little further than usual. You want to get this long run to up to about 18k at least. Look for a program: www.myascis.us while not ideal is a good place for a beginner
On January 04 2015 01:25 Don_Julio wrote: Are you shipwrecked with your bike and GPS device on an island or what are you doing in the middle of the ocean L_Master?
On January 03 2015 20:46 Meat wrote: Got a half marathon coming up in 64 days. Right now I run about 50 minutes @ 11km/h with 2 training days a week. Probably need to add an extra training day. Will miss more than a week due to wintersports as well.
Two days isn't enough. You need that extra day. Introduce it asap and use one of your running days to run a little further than usual. You want to get this long run to up to about 18k at least. Look for a program: www.myascis.us while not ideal is a good place for a beginner
I thought I only had to train for 3/4 the distance, so about 16km. Going to look around a bit for a new program that has 3 training days. Unfortunately myasics looks far from ideal considering you can't outrule certain days.
Looking forward to joining you all this year. 2015 is the time for reinvention. God I suck at running. Get winded way too soon, shins hurt after a while, simply because I'm so unused to running. I live in an eternal crime scene, so I'll stick to the treadmill for the most part, but looking forward to bettering myself.
Looking forward to this year. Training went great first half of 2014, motivation fell off a bit and I ended up having a hip not properly in place ( Oddly enough my brother and I both have the same problem there, didn't even realize it was a problem for like 2-3 months )
Took a break from it all and decided to do some proper injury rehab. Bought a hybrid road bike (Focus Cyclocross Mares AX) so I can do my 50k to work round trip a bit easier and maybe do it more than once a week.
My main goal is to redeem myself for my terrible performance at a Tough Mudder I attempted last year, I ran it with my hip out (was the last thing I did before going to the doctor and thinking there was a real problem), the whole ordeal was a nightmare, and I almost had to quit at 14km when my calves seized up for almost a full minute.
Some discipline in diet would be pretty good too, but I'm not trying to win anything, I just do this for fun, harder to make that leap I think haha. At 6'4 I was 165 lbs at the peak of my training last year, and with my break to rehab I put on 22lbs, so hopefully I can drop some of that too I guess.
Hey 2015 running thread! I'll be around to give things another go this year. I had a challenging year last year. I did manage to stay injury free, and had some pretty nice training cycles but I fell short of my goals in my bigger races. My best performance ended up being a 42 minute 10K in September. My fall marathon was not good but I did have some bad luck during the race and strained an ankle/mentally fell apart, but I learned alot of good things through the training cycle and really felt I had a positive build up to the race even if the race itself didn't go that well.
This year I have no marathon plans. I'm thinking I will run a handful of 5k's shooting to hit a 19:xx time somewhere along the way. I would also like to run a few half marathons possibly in the summer/fall. Last year I ran a 20:30 5K, but that was while I was doing mainly marathon training, so hopefully with a more faster/shorter distance focus I'll improve speed a bit. I ran a 5:30 mile in July (but then abandoned most of my speed workouts for longer runs/marathon training). I would like to run a mile faster than 5:30 sometime this summer as well.
Big race that I am going to start training for soon is the Cherry Blossom 10 Miler in April. I don't really want to set a hard time goal for it but I will definitely be motivated to run a solid time.
Can't wait to follow peoples progress on strava and in here, good luck in 2015 everyone.
I registered a couple of days ago to Xterra france, it's an off road triathlon, should be a lot of fun and a good motivation for getting into shape . It's going to be 1500m of swimming, 38km of mountain bike + 800m altitude change, and finally 10km +200m of running, all in the vosges mountains should be a lut of fun but i'll only have 1 month and a half to train seriously so it's going to be kind of a challenge ^^
On January 04 2015 01:25 Don_Julio wrote: Are you shipwrecked with your bike and GPS device on an island or what are you doing in the middle of the ocean L_Master?
On January 03 2015 20:46 Meat wrote: Got a half marathon coming up in 64 days. Right now I run about 50 minutes @ 11km/h with 2 training days a week. Probably need to add an extra training day. Will miss more than a week due to wintersports as well.
Two days isn't enough. You need that extra day. Introduce it asap and use one of your running days to run a little further than usual. You want to get this long run to up to about 18k at least. Look for a program: www.myascis.us while not ideal is a good place for a beginner
I thought I only had to train for 3/4 the distance, so about 16km. Going to look around a bit for a new program that has 3 training days. Unfortunately myasics looks far from ideal considering you can't outrule certain days.
If you can run 16 why not run 18? In my experience the ordeal of a half starts at about 15k. I think getting to know the pain a little more can only be beneficial. Don't mind the fixed days. You can shift them around for your own as long as you get your weekly distance done and get enough rest between the runs. Treat the plan as a handy guideline.
On January 04 2015 01:25 Don_Julio wrote: Are you shipwrecked with your bike and GPS device on an island or what are you doing in the middle of the ocean L_Master?
On January 03 2015 20:46 Meat wrote: Got a half marathon coming up in 64 days. Right now I run about 50 minutes @ 11km/h with 2 training days a week. Probably need to add an extra training day. Will miss more than a week due to wintersports as well.
Two days isn't enough. You need that extra day. Introduce it asap and use one of your running days to run a little further than usual. You want to get this long run to up to about 18k at least. Look for a program: www.myascis.us while not ideal is a good place for a beginner
The gamer shines through. Looks like a lot of fun. Do you race with live "opponents" or are they all ghosts?
On January 04 2015 17:26 Jetaap wrote: I registered a couple of days ago to Xterra france, it's an off road triathlon, should be a lot of fun and a good motivation for getting into shape . It's going to be 1500m of swimming, 38km of mountain bike + 800m altitude change, and finally 10km +200m of running, all in the vosges mountains should be a lut of fun but i'll only have 1 month and a half to train seriously so it's going to be kind of a challenge ^^
Sounds fun. The running part will probably be tough but manageable unless you're gunning for a really fast time. I'd be scared of drowning and the technical challenges of a mountain bike ride. 1,5 months isn't a lot of time to prepare if you aren't used to endurance sports.
On January 04 2015 06:38 peanuts wrote: Looking forward to joining you all this year. 2015 is the time for reinvention. God I suck at running. Get winded way too soon, shins hurt after a while, simply because I'm so unused to running. I live in an eternal crime scene, so I'll stick to the treadmill for the most part, but looking forward to bettering myself.
If you get winded run slower. You almost never want to be out of breath if you just start running. Try to run at a pace at which you could maintain a conversation. Hurting shins are normal in the beginning. Don't freak out about it but keep a close eye on them. It took me at least half a year of continous running to get rid of them.
On January 04 2015 16:02 LagLovah wrote: Looking forward to this year. Training went great first half of 2014, motivation fell off a bit and I ended up having a hip not properly in place ( Oddly enough my brother and I both have the same problem there, didn't even realize it was a problem for like 2-3 months )
Took a break from it all and decided to do some proper injury rehab. Bought a hybrid road bike (Focus Cyclocross Mares AX) so I can do my 50k to work round trip a bit easier and maybe do it more than once a week.
My main goal is to redeem myself for my terrible performance at a Tough Mudder I attempted last year, I ran it with my hip out (was the last thing I did before going to the doctor and thinking there was a real problem), the whole ordeal was a nightmare, and I almost had to quit at 14km when my calves seized up for almost a full minute.
Some discipline in diet would be pretty good too, but I'm not trying to win anything, I just do this for fun, harder to make that leap I think haha. At 6'4 I was 165 lbs at the peak of my training last year, and with my break to rehab I put on 22lbs, so hopefully I can drop some of that too I guess.
Damn. Hip issues suck. Are you fine now? How did they treat it?
@LuckyFool: Who are you at Strava? 19:xx is absolutely manageable considering your 42 min 10k PR in the middle of marathon training.
On January 04 2015 17:26 Jetaap wrote: I registered a couple of days ago to Xterra france, it's an off road triathlon, should be a lot of fun and a good motivation for getting into shape . It's going to be 1500m of swimming, 38km of mountain bike + 800m altitude change, and finally 10km +200m of running, all in the vosges mountains should be a lut of fun but i'll only have 1 month and a half to train seriously so it's going to be kind of a challenge ^^
Sounds fun. The running part will probably be tough but manageable unless you're gunning for a really fast time. I'd be scared of drowning and the technical challenges of a mountain bike ride. 1,5 months isn't a lot of time to prepare if you aren't used to endurance sports.
The trail is in July, so i actually have quite a lot of time but i'm extremely busy until the end of may, so i'll probably be running once or twice a week until then, and in June i'll get into the specific training (would like it if i was able to do 2 sessions each of swimming, biking and running a week (+ a rest day)). That's the nice thing with these multi sport events, it's possible to train much harder without injuries. I'm not aiming for a fast time anyway, it's definitely something i'm doing for fun, i'm a decent swimmer and i'm a light build for my size so it's a big advantage for the mountain bike part, it's definitely my strongest sport (more road cycling usually though), the running will be tough depending on how I managed food/pace/water before but it's definitely doable.
Damn. Hip issues suck. Are you fine now? How did they treat it?
I seem to be fine now, they just popped it back in where it was supposed to be(a few different times) and then made me do tons of strengthening work. Working on flexibility in that area lately, won't really know how well it worked until I do some serious training though I imagine. I'm only doing 20-30km a week so far, nothing too extreme.
Oh btw, nice choice on the CX bike LagLovah. It's a pretty solid compromise since you get road geometry with the ability to ride well off road on stuff that isn't absurdly rugged...and if you switch out the tires to road tires it well perform damn near as well as a regular road bike.
Haha I am no expert on that sort of thing. This is my first real bike, so what's on it is what was on it in the store, I couldn't tell you a single thing about it, beyond that it cost way too much and it's much easier to ride than my old bike.
Was on sale... hard to find a bike that fits my frame. I went with the hybrid because although I do get paved trail where I go, it is a bit rough in spots. Maybe if I decide to race with it, I would be more likely to look into the complexities of it I guess, but I don't swim so a tri is out, and any cycle race I do is going to be for fun/charity.
Hello everybody. This year I'm taking a semester off college and I'll get a part time job so I'll have plenty of spare time which I'll use to train for triathlon races. I have some swimming background but although I'm a decent runner and cyclist that's definitely where I'll have to invest more. I'm pretty dedicated to my training and I'll be training over 20 hours weekly for the first weeks mainly to get a good level of endurance and then depending on how I'm doing I'll see how to adjust my training.
I'm no expert on training methodology and most of the sessions and training plans I'll be using come from here
Although it is very specific to triathlon it has many very interesting articles about the principles of training in general and about all the 3 disciplines of the triathlon which may be interesting for both runners and cyclists.
My first race will be on the 16th Feb and will be a Sprint distance race (750m swim, 20km bike and 5km run). It will not my key race, so I'll just want to get the feel of racing and see where I'll need to improve so I'll be much better by the end of the season. Till then I hope to stay injure free and improve as much as possible.
2014 was...an acceptable year. It was good in many ways, the best of which is that I actually made a return to health for running. It's really, really special to be able to do that again after missing almost 2 years from mid 2012 to early/mid 2014. I was also generally pleased with the consistency of my training, as I averaged about 10 hrs/wk and didn't miss much. Made some nice progress in cycling, and ran a couple good races in the early summer.
That said, it wasn't entirely the year I wanted either. I didn't do a good job with my eternal struggle with diet. If I'm actually going to run, or ride, well that absolutely has to change. There aren't 5'8" 160 (1.73, 74kg) guys at the front of the pack in endurance sports for a reason. Not to mention the high sugar intake murders your ability to recover from workouts. Fixing diet is something I've been talking about for 5 years or something stupid like that, and I want this to be the year I finally change that. I'll be very disappointed if I look back at this thread in 365 days and I'm still eating somewhere between crap/mediocre.
The other thing that wasn't so hot about 2014 was I never put together a training cycle. I more or less just went out and did easy/aerobic efforts with an occasional tempo thrown in randomly. Same for the bike. That works good when you're new, but not so hot when you've been at it for several years or more. With that in mind I've got some pretty specific goals in mind.
On the running front the goal is to run well, at least sub 18, at St. Patricks Day 5k in March. Running is the prime focus until then, and I've got a pretty outline for the training I want to do.
After that, the game-plan is to focus on cycling over the summer and see where I get. Based on what I can do now, and power/weight ratio I think I can get to, I think I have the ability to be very, very good on the bike. Good enough that it's sufficiently enticing to give it a serious shot in the spring/summer. My goal races there are the major hill climbs here in Colorado (Lookout Mountain, Sunshine HC, Guanella Pass, Mt. Evans, Pikes Peak) culminating in Pikes Peak. It's what I'm strongest at, and gives me plenty of time to improve my worthless bike handling skills before diving headfirst into a race without being comfortable riding in a bunch, descending, etc.
AWESOME! I am already signed up for Mt Evans - let me know if you want to coordinate driving and/or training for it. The only real advice I can give from last year is get many high-altitude miles in before the event. Then, it won't feel so strange on the day. Also, I can show you where the ninja outhouse is - very crucial pre-race info!
Oh, right! Biking. Whelp, good luck, I will be running it from Echo Lake, not biking.
On January 01 2015 19:54 L_Master wrote: Curious to hear what the rest of you are gunning for this year. Except for Bonham because I already know he is doing secret trainings preparing to give Kimetto's record a nice spanking.
Seriously want to hear about Bonham's plans, if he feels like sharing! His awesome runs last year have made me want to try the marathon (more on that later).
woot great! looking forwards to this year as well.
I too would like to use more periodization in my training, So gonna do that by getting most of aerobic easy workouts in the winter and transition into harder tempo and interval workouts as the year progresses and gets closer to race season.
Also want to clean up my diet as well. The only times when i really eat bad is when i go home with my parents during the holidays where they have chips (Fatty foods that are crunchy + salty like bacon and chips are so addictive!) and candy or stuff like that in the house. And if it's in the house and within my reach i'm gonna eat it lol. I also sometimes eat too much healthy food as well, like i'd make a huge bowl of pasta and eat till i'm bloated, usually prone to do that after a tough or long workouts.
Do you still ride on a indoor spin bike or did you invest in a actual road bike?
Also who is eric morgan on strava page, i'd follow him back if i knew who he was!, and he's killing it. I think it'll be a good idea to match the TL alias with the names on strava so we can see whose doing what workouts and stuff if people don't mind revealing their real names .
So my baseline right now is Swimming I can comfortably swim at 1:35 per 100meters, or roughly 1:27 per 100 yards. Just started swimming 7-8 hours a week, hopefully after a few more weeks i can see more improvement in the swim. Bike: I bought a power meter in 2014 yay, and right now in the off season I test 1 hour race pace watts of 282 aka i can hold 282 watts for 1 hour aka FTP (functional threshold pace). I'm also 147lbs right now at 5'8. so that leaves me at a 4.22 watts/kilo Run: running was my first sport, and in the past year i've struggled to see progress, however, after my last cross country season, and a 2 week break i rebuilt running again. Now i can run at like a lot faster easy runs with much less effort. Some days if i'm feeling good I can run like a 6:49min/mile on a cruise probably also due to the fact i lost some muscle weight.
Goals 2015, main goal is to get top 25 in my age group and olympic distance nationals to qualify for ITU world's. Swim: Looking at last year's results, gonna have to swim 1:30/100m or hold 1:25/100 yrds for 1500meters. Bike: Increase my current FTP from 282 watts to 300-310 watts. Also drop 2 more lbs to race weight of 145lbs. Therefore making it 4.55 watts per kilo. Run: I'd love to run a 35:39 or 5:45min/mile for 10k on the track. a 1:18 13.1, and a 37min 10k off the bike.
I've ran at 5:45 pace for a 8k on a cross country course this past season, so after some weight loss and more speed work that should be within reach.
Also break 4hr 30min in a 70.3 in june.
I'm also going to boulder Co, from early sept to early october for a rotation site. Looking forwards to train hard over there as well! Good luck to everyone on their 2015 season
Hey, if you (or any other TL runner) are going to be in Boulder, hit me up! I would love to share some of the good weekly runs and routes.
On January 05 2015 20:47 Gjhc wrote: Hello everybody. This year I'm taking a semester off college and I'll get a part time job so I'll have plenty of spare time which I'll use to train for triathlon races. I have some swimming background but although I'm a decent runner and cyclist that's definitely where I'll have to invest more. I'm pretty dedicated to my training and I'll be training over 20 hours weekly for the first weeks mainly to get a good level of endurance and then depending on how I'm doing I'll see how to adjust my training.
I'm no expert on training methodology and most of the sessions and training plans I'll be using come from here
Although it is very specific to triathlon it has many very interesting articles about the principles of training in general and about all the 3 disciplines of the triathlon which may be interesting for both runners and cyclists.
My first race will be on the 16th Feb and will be a Sprint distance race (750m swim, 20km bike and 5km run). It will not my key race, so I'll just want to get the feel of racing and see where I'll need to improve so I'll be much better by the end of the season. Till then I hope to stay injure free and improve as much as possible.
wooot! excited to see how you do on your races, keep us updated . 20hours a week is a lot of training hours if you're not counting putting on shoes, waiting at stoplights...etc. But you came from a swim background so probably used to training 2-4 hours a day.
Hello running thread, this year I decided to first stop lurking this thread and to try my best and get to my goal of finishing a marathon. At the moment I'm not concerned about speed at all, just making it to the finish line. Currently I'm trying to run 3-4 days a week, consisting of one long run and the rest shorter ones. I'm currently around 12-15 miles @ 9ish min/mi pace for my long runs and doing 6-7 miles or so for my short runs.
I'm just running into several problems I'd appreciate help with (besides trying to keep up a schedule). First off, how important is running half marathon races to prepare? I'm also hitting the wall pretty hard at the end of some runs, and I think I might be running out of water. Do you just plan a route with water along the way or are you just supposed to carry a water bottle with you, because I really hate having anything on me at all during a run. Also when I'm planning my runs, how much terrain should I be including, I haven't done much research yet on how much incline there is during a marathon course. Any advice on anything else would be appreciated.
On January 05 2015 20:47 Gjhc wrote: Hello everybody. This year I'm taking a semester off college and I'll get a part time job so I'll have plenty of spare time which I'll use to train for triathlon races. I have some swimming background but although I'm a decent runner and cyclist that's definitely where I'll have to invest more. I'm pretty dedicated to my training and I'll be training over 20 hours weekly for the first weeks mainly to get a good level of endurance and then depending on how I'm doing I'll see how to adjust my training.
I'm no expert on training methodology and most of the sessions and training plans I'll be using come from here
Although it is very specific to triathlon it has many very interesting articles about the principles of training in general and about all the 3 disciplines of the triathlon which may be interesting for both runners and cyclists.
My first race will be on the 16th Feb and will be a Sprint distance race (750m swim, 20km bike and 5km run). It will not my key race, so I'll just want to get the feel of racing and see where I'll need to improve so I'll be much better by the end of the season. Till then I hope to stay injure free and improve as much as possible.
wooot! excited to see how you do on your races, keep us updated . 20hours a week is a lot of training hours if you're not counting putting on shoes, waiting at stoplights...etc. But you came from a swim background so probably used to training 2-4 hours a day.
Dude YPang is gonna be in Boulder in September, we have to all go for some crazy, painful run!
And I'll try to make it up for a run at some point, maybe we can meet at USA XC?
On January 06 2015 09:58 atombombforpeace wrote: Hello running thread, this year I decided to first stop lurking this thread and to try my best and get to my goal of finishing a marathon. At the moment I'm not concerned about speed at all, just making it to the finish line. Currently I'm trying to run 3-4 days a week, consisting of one long run and the rest shorter ones. I'm currently around 12-15 miles @ 9ish min/mi pace for my long runs and doing 6-7 miles or so for my short runs.
I'm just running into several problems I'd appreciate help with (besides trying to keep up a schedule). First off, how important is running half marathon races to prepare? I'm also hitting the wall pretty hard at the end of some runs, and I think I might be running out of water. Do you just plan a route with water along the way or are you just supposed to carry a water bottle with you, because I really hate having anything on me at all during a run. Also when I'm planning my runs, how much terrain should I be including, I haven't done much research yet on how much incline there is during a marathon course. Any advice on anything else would be appreciated.
Cheers to all on the new year and new goals.
I run with one of those belts that holds 2 small water bottles on your back hips and I find it less annoying than I thought I would. Alternatively I used to plan my routes so I would hit a place to get water, but it kind of locks you into a certain route and pace.
Marathons can vary widely on elevation, some are designed to have almost no change at all and some aren't, my local has probably less than 100ft of change during the entire course. Good luck with your training.
On January 06 2015 21:03 Jetaap wrote: So i just joined the strava group, looks fun but i'm way less hardcore than some of you, don't know if i'll dare put my records here :p.
Actually the worst part was by far running in the city, too many crosswalks, stoplights, people in the way... and running on concrete/flat surface hurts my knee, i actually had to stop a couple of times at the begining, but as soon as i started to climb on "natural" surface my knee was perfectly fine... La bastille is actually a great place to run in grenoble, you slowly ascend above the city with the snowy mountains right in front of you, i think in my next runs i'll go there directly rather than trying to make an itinerary through the city.
The more i think of it the more i realize how awesome it is to be able leave my apartment, run 10 minutes and be in the mountains :D
On January 05 2015 20:47 Gjhc wrote: Hello everybody. This year I'm taking a semester off college and I'll get a part time job so I'll have plenty of spare time which I'll use to train for triathlon races. I have some swimming background but although I'm a decent runner and cyclist that's definitely where I'll have to invest more. I'm pretty dedicated to my training and I'll be training over 20 hours weekly for the first weeks mainly to get a good level of endurance and then depending on how I'm doing I'll see how to adjust my training.
I'm no expert on training methodology and most of the sessions and training plans I'll be using come from here
Although it is very specific to triathlon it has many very interesting articles about the principles of training in general and about all the 3 disciplines of the triathlon which may be interesting for both runners and cyclists.
My first race will be on the 16th Feb and will be a Sprint distance race (750m swim, 20km bike and 5km run). It will not my key race, so I'll just want to get the feel of racing and see where I'll need to improve so I'll be much better by the end of the season. Till then I hope to stay injure free and improve as much as possible.
wooot! excited to see how you do on your races, keep us updated . 20hours a week is a lot of training hours if you're not counting putting on shoes, waiting at stoplights...etc. But you came from a swim background so probably used to training 2-4 hours a day.
Dude YPang is gonna be in Boulder in September, we have to all go for some crazy, painful run!
And I'll try to make it up for a run at some point, maybe we can meet at USA XC?
Yes, let's finally try to get together and say "hi." If you want a place to crash on either end of USA XC we've got an nice guest bedroom in Broomfield. Last year was super cold viewing, but maybe this year will be more pleasant.
My goals in 2014 where a bit beyond what I could expect to achieve based on my [medium-poor] training. Hill climbs are hard! On the whole, though, it was a great year for me with a few really nice performances at favorite 5k's and 4 milers and 33% more training miles than 2013.
My goals for 2014 (AKA "The Year of Hills"): [were]
1. Run the Pike's Peak Ascent Run isn't really the correct word, but I did finish. 2. Run the Pike's Peak Ascent in less than 3 hours (very difficult, probably). I finished in 3:13, walking way too much on the face. It's just not something that idle training in the flatlands prepares you for. 3. Run the Mt. Evans Ascent in less than 2 hours, 40 minutes, and thus earn a piece of the mountain as a prize. This was actually pretty awesome. I got the rock, but I think I can improve my time and so I'm signed up for 2015 already 4. Run the La Luz Trail Run, hoping to place top 10. I did not get top 10, again with lack of experience and training. I think that I will try again this year, knowing the course and with a LOT more climbs and miles under my soles.
So, 50% successful. Not too bad, but I could really see that I can improve on these style of climbs. Getting injured in May last year didn't help, either, kept me worried about my Achilles for ~4-5 months. All is good now, and I'm going to build mileage more gradually this time round, but up to higher numbers and more elevation for sure.
My goals for 2015 (AKA "Run Hills More Quickly"): 1) Don't get injured. Train for 5ish days per week, on good surfaces and at proper higher elevations, and stretch/massage as needed. 2) Run the Dirty 30 [mile] with RMR. This race is well attended, looks both awesome and insane. 3) Get Top 10 in La Luz Trail Run. Increased training WILL make this possible. 4) Run Mt. Evans in under 2:15. This is about a minute/mile faster than last year - but DOABLE with the correct training in place. 5) One more trail ultra TBD with RMR.
I'm taking a year off the Ascent, I think. That was pretty soul-crushing and I just need to feel a lot stronger before giving it another go.
I have to give a shoutout to TL Runners and Rocky Mountain Runners TL Runners: you're all awesome. I hope to meet more of you IRL, if you're in Boulder or if I travel for runs, but in the mean time seeing your training and results and recaps keeps inspiration flowing. RMR = carefree, fun group of crazy ultra/trail runners: some fast, some slow, but all happily insane. The energy there propels me into signing up for crazy stuff in 2015.
On January 05 2015 20:47 Gjhc wrote: Hello everybody. This year I'm taking a semester off college and I'll get a part time job so I'll have plenty of spare time which I'll use to train for triathlon races. I have some swimming background but although I'm a decent runner and cyclist that's definitely where I'll have to invest more. I'm pretty dedicated to my training and I'll be training over 20 hours weekly for the first weeks mainly to get a good level of endurance and then depending on how I'm doing I'll see how to adjust my training.
I'm no expert on training methodology and most of the sessions and training plans I'll be using come from here
Although it is very specific to triathlon it has many very interesting articles about the principles of training in general and about all the 3 disciplines of the triathlon which may be interesting for both runners and cyclists.
My first race will be on the 16th Feb and will be a Sprint distance race (750m swim, 20km bike and 5km run). It will not my key race, so I'll just want to get the feel of racing and see where I'll need to improve so I'll be much better by the end of the season. Till then I hope to stay injure free and improve as much as possible.
wooot! excited to see how you do on your races, keep us updated . 20hours a week is a lot of training hours if you're not counting putting on shoes, waiting at stoplights...etc. But you came from a swim background so probably used to training 2-4 hours a day.
Dude YPang is gonna be in Boulder in September, we have to all go for some crazy, painful run!
And I'll try to make it up for a run at some point, maybe we can meet at USA XC?
Yes, let's finally try to get together and say "hi." If you want a place to crash on either end of USA XC we've got an nice guest bedroom in Broomfield. Last year was super cold viewing, but maybe this year will be more pleasant.
I'll be looking for rent soon, and will be colorado for 5 weeks, and i'll definitely let you know. Thanks for giving me options can't believe TL can even provide me with housing options! haha.
On January 05 2015 20:47 Gjhc wrote: Hello everybody. This year I'm taking a semester off college and I'll get a part time job so I'll have plenty of spare time which I'll use to train for triathlon races. I have some swimming background but although I'm a decent runner and cyclist that's definitely where I'll have to invest more. I'm pretty dedicated to my training and I'll be training over 20 hours weekly for the first weeks mainly to get a good level of endurance and then depending on how I'm doing I'll see how to adjust my training.
I'm no expert on training methodology and most of the sessions and training plans I'll be using come from here
Although it is very specific to triathlon it has many very interesting articles about the principles of training in general and about all the 3 disciplines of the triathlon which may be interesting for both runners and cyclists.
My first race will be on the 16th Feb and will be a Sprint distance race (750m swim, 20km bike and 5km run). It will not my key race, so I'll just want to get the feel of racing and see where I'll need to improve so I'll be much better by the end of the season. Till then I hope to stay injure free and improve as much as possible.
wooot! excited to see how you do on your races, keep us updated . 20hours a week is a lot of training hours if you're not counting putting on shoes, waiting at stoplights...etc. But you came from a swim background so probably used to training 2-4 hours a day.
Dude YPang is gonna be in Boulder in September, we have to all go for some crazy, painful run!
And I'll try to make it up for a run at some point, maybe we can meet at USA XC?
Yes, let's finally try to get together and say "hi." If you want a place to crash on either end of USA XC we've got an nice guest bedroom in Broomfield. Last year was super cold viewing, but maybe this year will be more pleasant.
I'll be looking for rent soon, and will be colorado for 5 weeks, and i'll definitely let you know. Thanks for giving me options can't believe TL can even provide me with housing options! haha.
Awkward! I was actually replying to L_Master, for a night or two if he didn't want to drive himself up to Boulder too early on the day of USA XC. That said, I would gladly help you out if I can when you're visiting in Sept, maybe not for the whole 5 weeks unless I run it past the wife first... but a few days on either end (especially if it helps you get a better rental situation) would be my pleasure.
YPang, if you were going to be in the Springs I'd totally be cool with you staying at my place, but a 90 min drive there and back to Boulder each day is not so desirable.
Since you'll be here for a while though, if you can find a few free days I can show you all the sick climbs and maybe we can all get together for an incline sufferfest as well.
On January 07 2015 02:37 Jetaap wrote: Actually the worst part was by far running in the city, too many crosswalks, stoplights, people in the way... and running on concrete/flat surface hurts my knee, i actually had to stop a couple of times at the begining, but as soon as i started to climb on "natural" surface my knee was perfectly fine... La bastille is actually a great place to run in grenoble, you slowly ascend above the city with the snowy mountains right in front of you, i think in my next runs i'll go there directly rather than trying to make an itinerary through the city.
The more i think of it the more i realize how awesome it is to be able leave my apartment, run 10 minutes and be in the mountains :D
Grenoble looks awesome. I'm always jelly about the guys from Colorado who have the Rockies at their doorstep but Grenoble seems to be a pretty city, too. Maybe take a look at the Strava heatmap for good running routes. When I'm in a foreign city that's where my research starts and I even found some new spots in my home town.
haha, for sure thanks for offerings i'll definitely hit you up! I literally know nobody over there so ill be making new friends at local clubs and such as well.
On January 07 2015 02:37 Jetaap wrote: Actually the worst part was by far running in the city, too many crosswalks, stoplights, people in the way... and running on concrete/flat surface hurts my knee, i actually had to stop a couple of times at the begining, but as soon as i started to climb on "natural" surface my knee was perfectly fine... La bastille is actually a great place to run in grenoble, you slowly ascend above the city with the snowy mountains right in front of you, i think in my next runs i'll go there directly rather than trying to make an itinerary through the city.
The more i think of it the more i realize how awesome it is to be able leave my apartment, run 10 minutes and be in the mountains :D
Grenoble looks awesome. I'm always jelly about the guys from Colorado who have the Rockies at their doorstep but Grenoble seems to be a pretty city, too. Maybe take a look at the Strava heatmap for good running routes. When I'm in a foreign city that's where my research starts and I even found some new spots in my home town.
Wow this is awesome! I've been tinkering with a few gps / trail planning apps on android but it looks like strava has everything i wants!
'All my running shoes were stolen from my car when it got broken into this morning' True story even, since I wear an odd size I can't even buy new ones until the weekend (
WOW that sucks. Note to self, do not leave running shoes exposed in plain sight in car. Wouldn't even think about someone breaking into car to steal them but I guess especially if there's a couple pairs it could easily be $200+
On January 07 2015 05:17 mtmentat wrote: So, 2015 is here!
My goals in 2014 where a bit beyond what I could expect to achieve based on my [medium-poor] training. Hill climbs are hard! On the whole, though, it was a great year for me with a few really nice performances at favorite 5k's and 4 milers and 33% more training miles than 2013.
My goals for 2014 (AKA "The Year of Hills"): [were]
1. Run the Pike's Peak Ascent Run isn't really the correct word, but I did finish. 2. Run the Pike's Peak Ascent in less than 3 hours (very difficult, probably). I finished in 3:13, walking way too much on the face. It's just not something that idle training in the flatlands prepares you for. 3. Run the Mt. Evans Ascent in less than 2 hours, 40 minutes, and thus earn a piece of the mountain as a prize. This was actually pretty awesome. I got the rock, but I think I can improve my time and so I'm signed up for 2015 already 4. Run the La Luz Trail Run, hoping to place top 10. I did not get top 10, again with lack of experience and training. I think that I will try again this year, knowing the course and with a LOT more climbs and miles under my soles.
So, 50% successful. Not too bad, but I could really see that I can improve on these style of climbs. Getting injured in May last year didn't help, either, kept me worried about my Achilles for ~4-5 months. All is good now, and I'm going to build mileage more gradually this time round, but up to higher numbers and more elevation for sure.
My goals for 2015 (AKA "Run Hills More Quickly"): 1) Don't get injured. Train for 5ish days per week, on good surfaces and at proper higher elevations, and stretch/massage as needed. 2) Run the Dirty 30 [mile] with RMR. This race is well attended, looks both awesome and insane. 3) Get Top 10 in La Luz Trail Run. Increased training WILL make this possible. 4) Run Mt. Evans in under 2:15. This is about a minute/mile faster than last year - but DOABLE with the correct training in place. 5) One more trail ultra TBD with RMR.
I'm taking a year off the Ascent, I think. That was pretty soul-crushing and I just need to feel a lot stronger before giving it another go.
I have to give a shoutout to TL Runners and Rocky Mountain Runners TL Runners: you're all awesome. I hope to meet more of you IRL, if you're in Boulder or if I travel for runs, but in the mean time seeing your training and results and recaps keeps inspiration flowing. RMR = carefree, fun group of crazy ultra/trail runners: some fast, some slow, but all happily insane. The energy there propels me into signing up for crazy stuff in 2015.
Good luck to us all!
1) That's my main goal, too (5 days/no injuries). You don't succeed here and all your other goals are in jeopardy. 3+4) That's ambitious. I remember that you complained about lack of proper training last year. Placement is in large parts luck based isn't it? If a few more Bonhams than usual show up you just drop a few spots even if you run better than ever.
And....London does it again! Freaking absurd field
Wilson Kipsang (Kenya) 2:03:23 Dennis Kimetto (Kenya) 2:02:57 Emmanuel Mutai (Kenya) 2:03:13 Eliud Kipchoge (Kenya) 2:04:05 Ayele Abshero (Ethiopia) 2:04:23 Sammy Kitwara (Kenya) 2:04:28 Tsegaye Mekonnen (Ethiopia) 2:04:32 Stanley Biwott (Kenya) 2:04:55 Kenenisa Bekele (Ethiopia) 2:05:04 Tilahun Regassa (Ethiopia) 2:05:27 Samuel Tsegay (Eritrea) 2:07:28 Serhiy Lebid (Ukraine) 2:08:32 Aleksey Reunkov (Russia) 2:09:54 Ghebrezgiabhier Kibrom (Eritrea) 2:10:00 Marcin Chabowski (Poland) 2:10:07 Koen Raymaekers (Netherlands) 2:10:35 Scott Overall (Great Britain & NI) 2:10:55 Michael Shelley (Australia) 2:11:15 Javier Guerra (Spain) 2:12:21 Steve Way (Great Britain & NI) 2:15:16 Christian Kreienbühl (Germany) 2:15:35 Pedro Ribeiro (Portugal) Debut
Just ridiculous. There is almost nobody you are missing. Perhaps Geoff Mutai but that's it.
You know the field is stacked if Keninsa is just a side note. Can't wait to see Kipsang, Kimetto and Mutai to duke it out. I know that London is slower than Berlin but they still run fast times there. With competition as fierce as this year, who knows... . I really hope Bekele can bounce back from his disappointing performance in Chicago.
On November 23 2014 15:44 Malinor wrote: Had a 10k last week (a friend talked me into it) and finished at 56:14 at112kg. It is a little race series with a second 10k in December and a third 10k in January. That's pretty good motivation I gotta say. The goal for December is now 54:xx. And it is the next attempt to keep my weight reasonable. I have been working 60h/week for 2 months and it cost me ~5kg. If I get rid of those 5kg again it should lead me to a 53:xx or so by itself. I wish at those races they would list results by weight and not by age ;-)
Today was the second 10k in the series. I have been running 20 times during the last 21 days and my weight was at 107,5kg this morning.
I finished in 53:13, three minutes faster than three weeks ago. Also, this is definitely a new all time PR, including training. I recall that I did something like 54/55 minutes on track during training once. But I have never run a 53:xx. So I am very satisfied that all the work paid off.
The third race is on January 11th. I think 51:xx is a realistic goal, if I have a reasonable christmas and keep training well. So I will aim for that.
I hope I can keep this up, feels really good.
edit: The GPS had the 10k last 10070m. So my GPS actually tells me I broke 53:xx with like 52:58 at the 10k mark. Though I am never sure if the GPS is 100% accurate.
Today was the third race. Bodyweight was at 104,9kg. I finished in 51:42, so another ~90 seconds faster and therefore a new PR.
The race itself was really hard. It was extremely windy and on the third km of the 5k lap you were just running against a wall, my pace dropped by 20 seconds in both rounds. Also, my legs were spent halfway through I wasn't well rested.
I am surely satisfied but I know there is room for improvement. Next 10k is in 6 weeks. Let's see if I can get to 49:xx, though for that to happen everything has to work out.
On January 08 2015 09:49 LagLovah wrote: Found a new excuse for missing runs.
'All my running shoes were stolen from my car when it got broken into this morning' True story even, since I wear an odd size I can't even buy new ones until the weekend (
Brand new shoes too, just bought them Saturday.
Man, LagLovah, that is terrible! Late to the game, but hopefully you found some replacements quickly over the weekend to get rid of the "excuse?" Did you file a police report/check the area for any CCTV?
My goals in 2014 where a bit beyond what I could expect to achieve based on my [medium-poor] training. Hill climbs are hard! On the whole, though, it was a great year for me with a few really nice performances at favorite 5k's and 4 milers and 33% more training miles than 2013.
My goals for 2014 (AKA "The Year of Hills"): [were]
1. Run the Pike's Peak Ascent Run isn't really the correct word, but I did finish. 2. Run the Pike's Peak Ascent in less than 3 hours (very difficult, probably). I finished in 3:13, walking way too much on the face. It's just not something that idle training in the flatlands prepares you for. 3. Run the Mt. Evans Ascent in less than 2 hours, 40 minutes, and thus earn a piece of the mountain as a prize. This was actually pretty awesome. I got the rock, but I think I can improve my time and so I'm signed up for 2015 already 4. Run the La Luz Trail Run, hoping to place top 10. I did not get top 10, again with lack of experience and training. I think that I will try again this year, knowing the course and with a LOT more climbs and miles under my soles.
So, 50% successful. Not too bad, but I could really see that I can improve on these style of climbs. Getting injured in May last year didn't help, either, kept me worried about my Achilles for ~4-5 months. All is good now, and I'm going to build mileage more gradually this time round, but up to higher numbers and more elevation for sure.
My goals for 2015 (AKA "Run Hills More Quickly"): 1) Don't get injured. Train for 5ish days per week, on good surfaces and at proper higher elevations, and stretch/massage as needed. 2) Run the Dirty 30 [mile] with RMR. This race is well attended, looks both awesome and insane.
3) Get Top 10 in La Luz Trail Run. Increased training WILL make this possible. + Show Spoiler +
4) Run Mt. Evans in under 2:15. This is about a minute/mile faster than last year - but DOABLE with the correct training in place. 5) One more trail ultra TBD with RMR.
I'm taking a year off the Ascent, I think. That was pretty soul-crushing and I just need to feel a lot stronger before giving it another go.
I have to give a shoutout to TL Runners and Rocky Mountain Runners TL Runners: you're all awesome. I hope to meet more of you IRL, if you're in Boulder or if I travel for runs, but in the mean time seeing your training and results and recaps keeps inspiration flowing. RMR = carefree, fun group of crazy ultra/trail runners: some fast, some slow, but all happily insane. The energy there propels me into signing up for crazy stuff in 2015.
Good luck to us all!
1) That's my main goal, too (5 days/no injuries). You don't succeed here and all your other goals are in jeopardy. 3+4) That's ambitious. I remember that you complained about lack of proper training last year. Placement is in large parts luck based isn't it? If a few more Bonhams than usual show up you just drop a few spots even if you run better than ever.
Yes, I recognize that it is luck based to try for a place. It's very strange, though, for me. If I make the assumption that the field remains the same, and that a # is doable, within the race it's easier for me to push harder toward that placement instead of trying to push myself harder against a clock goal. Something of the competitive or sporting streak in me, I guess - similar to how I don't try to beat an Insane AI but rather always want to compete against other humans who are pushing their limits too.
Plus, the flipside of that is that maybe fewer amazing runners will show up! This past Saturday I ran a 5k that was bitter cold last year and still had a ridiculously stacked field for a "fun-run." This year, very few of the good runners in the area showed up even though there was a $200 cash prize for first. My friend won it, even though last year his time would have been closer to 4th!
On January 13 2015 03:58 Meat wrote: I'm in the Alpes now, trained a bit on a treadmill but I totally understimated the effect of height on my stamina and heart rate.
Dang, time to go get in some beautiful climbing runs! And yea altitude absolutely has an effect, especially when you start talking up over 1500m in elevation. On the other hand if you live at 2000m like I do and come down to sea level...
Nice run Malinor! If it was good and windy, like high 20s/low30s...or more, then that wind had a significant effect. Could easily be 10s a mile if the whole course was exposed.
You're improving at a pretty solid clip right now, don't think it will be terribly long till you crack 50 if you stay healthy and motivated.
So I've been starting the year off right but will not have my goal of running everyday as I got busy after work today with other obligations
but been feeling good so a day of rest is probably the healthiest thing to do, no need to pointlessly adhere to a run-every-day-of-the-month goal just to do it.
EDIT 22 hours later:
fucking hell, the one treadmill in my apartment complex is failing to turn on or anything >.>. also, for once someone else was in the tiny gym there and they said they couldn't "figure it out" either
i guess I need to buy some lights or something to run when it's dark here, I'm not in a lit suburban neighborhood or anything.
Also at this point it's getting super aggravating, keep having this low grade medial malleolar/base of achilles ache.
Just enough to really keep me from feeling comfortable ramping up towards 40-60 mpw range and doing workouts. As much as I want to be doing running workouts right now and not cycling ones it's not worth risky an injury either.
Still, other than not running quite as much as I would like the training is going quite well.
On January 14 2015 15:25 N.geNuity wrote: So I've been starting the year off right but will not have my goal of running everyday as I got busy after work today with other obligations
but been feeling good so a day of rest is probably the healthiest thing to do, no need to pointlessly adhere to a run-every-day-of-the-month goal just to do it.
EDIT 22 hours later:
fucking hell, the one treadmill in my apartment complex is failing to turn on or anything >.>. also, for once someone else was in the tiny gym there and they said they couldn't "figure it out" either
i guess I need to buy some lights or something to run when it's dark here, I'm not in a lit suburban neighborhood or anything.
Running every day isn't necessary to get better unless you're in the sub-elite range like Bonham. Rest is important. Regarding the light. I have a headlamp like this one: + Show Spoiler +
It looks a little silly but works like a charm. I actually enjoy running in complete darkness with just the halo from my headlamp a few steps in front of me. _______________
Got new shoes. Mizuno Wave Rider 17. Felt great on the treadmill at the store and will test them outside tomorrow. God, I love my shoe guy. He really takes his time and makes really good prices for his regular customers. Wouldn't get the shoes much cheaper online.
So i haven't been able to run much these past few days, but i've done 2 ski touring days (i don't know if the translation is accurate, got it from wikipedia) which i guess is somewhat similar ^^. To be fair i could have ran on tuesday but got discouraged by the rains and the cold... honestly i would probably have felt better if i went running anyway but sometimes it's really hard to leave the warmth and confort of your home when you're on your own .
Finally... 25 months after my first try (which ended with a closed stadium and ice & snow on my alternative track), I broke 25minutes for a 5k. Many things contributed for this taking so long: new job, new town, weight gain, lazyness, whatever. But it doesn't matter now. Never give up :-)
On January 16 2015 23:47 Jetaap wrote: So i haven't been able to run much these past few days, but i've done 2 ski touring days (i don't know if the translation is accurate, got it from wikipedia) which i guess is somewhat similar ^^. To be fair i could have ran on tuesday but got discouraged by the rains and the cold... honestly i would probably have felt better if i went running anyway but sometimes it's really hard to leave the warmth and confort of your home when you're on your own .
Ski touring is excellent cross training. But yeah to improve at running you need to run as you already have an excellent aerobic base with your background in swimming and cycling. The best way to get out of the door at bad weather days is to establish a habit and you know that it's not too bad once you have run for a couple of minutes.
On January 17 2015 04:31 Malinor wrote: Finally... 25 months after my first try (which ended with a closed stadium and ice & snow on my alternative track), I broke 25minutes for a 5k. Many things contributed for this taking so long: new job, new town, weight gain, lazyness, whatever. But it doesn't matter now. Never give up :-)
I didn't feel particularly well either. Next stop: 10k in 49:xx.
Well done and your splits are impressively even. The fast last split should give you confidence to break the 50 fairly soon especially on a fast course and in a real race environment). __________
So I have a question about training for my next 10k. I''ve worked my way up to a 60k/5days week and am pretty sure that I can keep this up (at least w/o workouts) but I have done almost no speed work. My first race of the season is today in nine weeks. It's not my big goal race but I want to break my PR of 42:10. I have no clue where I stand atm though.
How should I proceed? 1. Reduce mileage a little (to 50k(?), maybe cutting a day) and start speedwork immediately or 2. Keep up the 60k and slowly implement speed work.
My running days are tuesday, wednesday, thursday, saturday and long at sunday. I'll probably go for tuesday and thursday as my workout days with one for temporuns and one for intervalls/Fartlek.
With my little knowledge in running training I'd say that you definitely should start speedwork asap, and I'd even argue that speed training is more important to a 10k race than endurance training.
You should improve your ability to run faster so that then you can run faster for longer, without training at a higher intensity than your race pace your improvement will be much slower. You need endurance to have a solid base but then you need to train speed so you can run faster and then train endurance at your new improved speed so that then you can keep your improved pace during the whole race. Obviously the relationship is not so linear but I think I made my point clear.
You can start by just 1 day a week but in a couple weeks I'd say 2 days per week should work out good. Just my 2 cents
So I'm going to break from my tradition of being a forum lurker because I may actually be some help on the topic of running. I'm a senior in high school with a 5k track pr of 15:10 and am currently working towards a sub 4:08 mile time this spring. My training right now is consisted of 7 days a week (no two-a-days thank god) with 2 speed workouts, 1 tempo run, and 2 long threshold runs; on average I get about 55-70 miles or 80-110 kilometers a week in depending on the weather and the intensity of the workouts.
Now that I'm done with my introduction that somehow turned into sounding arrogant (sorry bout that), I just want to help out others with their training and have a good time talking about running.
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How should I proceed? 1. Reduce mileage a little (to 50k(?), maybe cutting a day) and start speedwork immediately or 2. Keep up the 60k and slowly implement speed work.
A good distinction to make here is that you have listed Fartleks and intervals under the same category of speed work. In reality, Fartleks should be ran with the same mentality of tempo runs otherwise they are kind of wasted. The most important part of the Fartleks is the initial acceleration up to pace and the resting pace of the "off" period; however with your goal being a 10k the acceleration doesn't really have an effect because that hits more into mile/800 training.
Think of it this way, the "on" periods of the Fartleks should be ran just fast enough to get you tired, and the "off" periods should be ran as fast as you possibly can while still recovering enough for the next "on" period.
Either way I do think that Fartleks should be your next step in training. Tempo runs are great for 2 mile-5k but fall kinda short the longer the distances get, my suggestion would be to dedicate one day as a hard day and to drop 15k or higher at a fairly fast pace for you. In addition, I would generally stay away from intervals for a while, it's very easy to get hurt/demotivated/simply-not-any-faster by doing some small detail wrong. The exception would be hill repeats, a ~300m hill is the right length and repeats on them build strength while keeping form intact.
So to summarize my thoughts, base and strength are key and they both take time. Base is best built by consistently running and slowly progressing with longer runs and faster paces while strength, most likely, will be most efficiently built through 1-2 Fartlek days a week (one can always be harder than the other) and maybe some hill repeats. I would keep your mileage stable but if you need to move to 6 days a week and have shorter recovery runs to compensate that wouldn't be a problem at all. Honestly whatever feels the best and is the most fun would be what I would recommend, even if that means blowing off 100% of what I'm spewing.
You should improve your ability to run faster so that then you can run faster for longer
So to summarize my thoughts, base and strength are key and they both take time.
And roses are red. I believe my point was very clear, you can run faster with only endurance training but thats very inefficient, and since Don_Julio stated that he hasn't done speed training I was simply empathising the importance of it. Apart from that I like the advice you gave.
Yeah I guess I was a little confused from the initial post, but to a large degree you are correct; there should always be some kind of "speed" being done during training.
I guess I just don't really like the term "speed work", it's too broad. I've had 3 different coaches who all have meant different things in reference to speed work and because of this has always meant there needs to be further clarification. Me, I've always taken it to mean intervals under 800m, which would be too short for 10k training (unless it's a hill repeat).
How should I proceed? 1. Reduce mileage a little (to 50k(?), maybe cutting a day) and start speedwork immediately or 2. Keep up the 60k and slowly implement speed work.
More or less in line with what ms2300 stated. 9 weeks is enough time to get in some decent work, however if you have a serious goal race you probably wouldn't want to build specifically toward this race coming up in 9 weeks. The most typical transition would be, as ms2300 suggested, beginning to introduce some fartlek work (which can be done a myriad of ways), as well as some tempo runs and shorter repeats, somewhere in the 300-400m range tends to be good around 4-7%.
A month into that is typically a good time to transition to the track, of which there are several approaches. Some people like to work primarily over and under race pace, increasing the speed of the under pace and decreasing the rest of the over pace work acting as a "funnel" that converges on the goal race, whereas others like to work at race pace either lengthening repeats or decreases interval recovery time while throwing in the occasional session of faster work at 200m/400m. You just have to play around and find out what suits you best.
Tempo runs are great for 2 mile-5k but fall kinda short the longer the distances get
This is I really disagree with. Absolutely it's the opposite. You can run really solid 10ks, half marathons, and marathons of off mileage and tempo work. 5k is a stretch, and no way will mileage and tempos get you ready for a good 800/1500. The speed and buffering abilities just won't be there. Half marathons more than any race because they are a tempo run taken out to completion. Many of the classic half marathon workouts such as over/under, 3x3Mile, etc. are done right at half marathon pace.
With my little knowledge in running training I'd say that you definitely should start speedwork asap, and I'd even argue that speed training is more important to a 10k race than endurance training.
10k is approaching the break even point. Absolutely you need speedwork to run a 10,000 to your potential, but you can run a damn good 10k off of mileage and tempo work alone. This becomes increasingly true for slower athletes were 10k times start to exceed 50 or even 60 minutes.
You need endurance to have a solid base but then you need to train speed so you can run faster and then train endurance at your new improved speed so that then you can keep your improved pace during the whole race.
That's not really how it works. When you are training for a specific race you're working to improve your ability to run at that pace efficiently and handle the specific demands of that race. Which is why you see such a huge variety in how athletes approach running their easy/mileage days. Some guys run solid easy runs all the time (5k pace + 75-90s/mile), others run totally based on how they feel on a given day, and then there are also plenty of elite mile/5k/10k guys that run easy runs as slow as 7 or even 8 minute pace.
In a way you aren't saying anything different than I, but a better way of thinking about it is that you train to run faster at a specific distance and that process makes you fitter, which generally leads to doing all training a little faster including easy mileage runs.
Some solid higher intensity work will unquestionably be beneficial though, that much is clear, especially given that DonJulio now has a solid mileage base to work with and a body reasonably prepared to handle the demands of speedwork.
So I'm going to break from my tradition of being a forum lurker because I may actually be some help on the topic of running. I'm a senior in high school with a 5k track pr of 15:10 and am currently working towards a sub 4:08 mile time this spring. My training right now is consisted of 7 days a week (no two-a-days thank god) with 2 speed workouts, 1 tempo run, and 2 long threshold runs; on average I get about 55-70 miles or 80-110 kilometers a week in depending on the weather and the intensity of the workouts.
You've got some nice ability there! Any 800 times or open 400 times on record for you? Curious about what you have for wheels.
A question about your nomenclature, you mention doing 1 tempo run and 2 threshold runs per week. What do you see as the difference between a "tempo" and a "threshold" run?
Other than that, especially taken in conjunction with the times, it looks like you have a pretty solid approach to your training. It's definitely on the intense side, with more or less 5 solid efforts a week, or even 6 depending on how you run your long run, but if you're body can handle it then nothing wrong with such an approach. Definitely like the fact you haven't gone crazy with the mileage as it gives you plenty of room to continue to increase the training stimulus and build an even bigger aerobic house provided you elect to continue running in college.
This is I really disagree with. Absolutely it's the opposite. You can run really solid 10ks, half marathons, and marathons of off mileage and tempo work
So what are some good 10k tempo workout/runs?
You've got some nice ability there! Any 800 times or open 400 times on record for you?
My coaches threw me in the 4x400 and I was hand-timed at 50.9 last year, with weights and another year of strength under my belt I'd be surprised if I don't break 50 secs this season, but I'd probably want to do it in an open 400 because it feels wrong getting a running start in the relay. As for the 800, that race and I don't really get along...Maybe I'll run it in an indoor meet to see where I'm at or something. It's hard to talk about the times I want to run because it feels like such a stretch and there aren't many "checkpoints" during the winter to see if I'm on schedule. I mean, indoor track is something but it's no fun and gets me hurt pretty quickly.
What do you see as the difference between a "tempo" and a "threshold" run?
I don't mean lactate threshold and I'm probably using the wrong term entirely, but when I refer to "threshold' I'm talking about the max sustainable pace over a fairly long distance (~12 miles). Some kid on my team started using the term and I kinda followed suit, even if it's wrong. So like a tempo would be (depending on the distance of course) 5:10-5:25 whereas a "threshold" is like 5:45-5:55 and I sustain it for a fairly long ways.
. Definitely like the fact you haven't gone crazy with the mileage
Ohh I definitely did over the summer and there is a reason I backed off for winter training. I think I peaked at like 92 miles/week, but it was at the point where I was running to slow and not getting enough out of each run for it to be efficient. I used to think mileage was the most important factor in 5k-10k training, but I think it's different for everybody and the important thing is to find the sweet spot (which I haven't found yet).
90mpw a little over the summer is still a good ways away from what I would call crazy.
Crazy is like 120+ summer months and sustained 100mpw average year round. It can make you a monster in HS, but in many cases doesn't seem to result in as good of a development in college.
I don't mean lactate threshold and I'm probably using the wrong term entirely, but when I refer to "threshold' I'm talking about the max sustainable pace over a fairly long distance (~12 miles). Some kid on my team started using the term and I kinda followed suit, even if it's wrong. So like a tempo would be (depending on the distance of course) 5:10-5:25 whereas a "threshold" is like 5:45-5:55 and I sustain it for a fairly long ways.
Aww shit...this is gonna get confusing! Cycling, which I do a good bit of, uses the exact opposite terms. Tempo is like a strong aerobic cruise pace (MP pace effort give or take), and threshold refers to classic hour max effort pace.
My coaches threw me in the 4x400 and I was hand-timed at 50.9 last year, with weights and another year of strength under my belt I'd be surprised if I don't break 50 secs this season, but I'd probably want to do it in an open 400 because it feels wrong getting a running start in the relay. As for the 800, that race and I don't really get along...Maybe I'll run it in an indoor meet to see where I'm at or something. It's hard to talk about the times I want to run because it feels like such a stretch and there aren't many "checkpoints" during the winter to see if I'm on schedule. I mean, indoor track is something but it's no fun and gets me hurt pretty quickly.
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Good stuff. I figured the wheels would need to be pretty good if you're looking to go sub 4:10 and that confirms it. Hope you keep posting here, because with those wheels if you can continue to develop aerobically you'll be very, very good in the future.
So what are some good 10k tempo workout/runs?
If I'm understanding the question correctly, it's pretty much any strength bases stuff. Think 4-5 miles at the standard 5k pace + 25-30sec, 6xMile at the same pace w/1min recovery, 3x2mile at same pace w/2min recovery, etc. That kind of running doesn't end up being terribly far off 10k pace, and if you get in a bunch of that over a season, especially combined with some good, strong, longer runs tha gets guys into seriously good aerobic shape...which is probably 95% of the battle of running a great 10k.
Honestly a pretty good example of that is the good marathon guys. Most of those guys are doing general high mileage, lots of work at you're idea of threshold, and the occassional bit of work at HM pace. When the good guys come to run the occasional 10k they usually run low/mid 27s on the road, so you're talking high 26/low27 on the track. Pretty dang strong. If you had them throw in some speedwork and pacework for a couple months I'm sure they would knock another 10-30 seconds off that, but marathon training alone has them within 5-10 sec/mile of what they are capable with...and that is even slower in general than what a typical summer or base plan would look like for a HS/college 5k/10k guy.
Crazy is like 120+ summer months and sustained 100mpw average year round. It can make you a monster in HS
I don't know of any really fast HS runner who does this. I know college runners who do that, but it's probably because their race is twice is long as the HS 5k and they are completely crazy.
Think 4-5 miles at the standard 5k pace + 25-30sec, 6xMile at the same pace w/1min recovery, 3x2mile at same pace w/2min recovery, etc
Ok yeah, I just have never felt the 4-5 mile tempo's have been worth it; I am a big fan of 2 mile repeats though.
Wow, I stirred up quite the discussion here. Thanks for the feedback guys.
So I guess what I'm gonna do is to introduce one temporun and one fartlek workout asap and maybe transition to track intervalls in about four weeks. Sounds good and about what I expected. I will definitely do tempos because they really helped me in the past. It's not that I have never worked on speed by the way. I did a lot of temporuns for my half in the fall and track workouts in the last spring. The last weeks were solely to build up base mileage.
Damn ms2300 you're fast. I have no clue but is that good enough to get a college scholarship?
On January 19 2015 22:03 Don_Julio wrote: Wow, I stirred up quite the discussion here. Thanks for the feedback guys.
So I guess what I'm gonna do is to introduce one temporun and one fartlek workout asap and maybe transition to track intervalls in about four weeks. Sounds good and about what I expected. I will definitely do tempos because they really helped me in the past. It's not that I have never worked on speed by the way. I did a lot of temporuns for my half in the fall and track workouts in the last spring. The last weeks were solely to build up base mileage.
Damn ms2300 you're fast. I have no clue but is that good enough to get a college scholarship?
More than good enough to run D1, and should be able to get some money depending on the school.
More than good enough to run D1, and should be able to get some money depending on the school.
It's good enough to get large/full scholarships to D2 schools, and get good enough to get a little help from D1 schools. Of course this is all assuming I can put out the times I am on pace for...
However, there is always a tradeoff to running D1. I have yet to meet a college athlete who can do their best academic work and still keep it together on the field (and vice versa). I would much rather become the best engineer I can than run competitively for 4 years ultimately leading to very little (yay for team camaraderie).
I just don't think it's worth it in college to run competitively, HS is different because academically I am kinda just waiting for the year to end.
Edit: Ohh, and I forgot to ask about cycling training, and the differences between it and training for running (besides the fact one is on a bike).
Ohh, and I forgot to ask about cycling training, and the differences between it and training for running (besides the fact one is on a bike).
Racing is very, very different unless you happen to be going up a steep hill climb.
Training obviously has similarities but there are differences as well. One is just the sheer volume, especially if you're a really top guy training for multi day stage races. At the recreational level 10-15 hours a week is common, and for top guys it's not uncommon to train 20-25 hours a week.
In cycling, due to the lower impact you can do a greater volume of workouts as well, 2x20 min @ LT is a common session, as are things like 3x15, 4x10, etc. Some guys will even follow that up with VO2 max work afterwords. Another common one, that doesn't exist as much in running is the popularity of "tempo" work, or more what you like to call threshold. This is roughly 90% of ones FTP (one hour race power/effort). So if you can do 300W for an hour, tempo work would be in that 260-270W range. Sessions like these can be things like 1x60, 3x20, 2x20, 3x30, or even 1x90. In general there is also more training intensity, with it not being uncommon to have workouts 4-5 times a week whilst doing solid volume. Think:
Mon: 1.5 hr recovery (Z1) Tue: 2 hrs w/5x6 min @ 105-110% FTP (roughly VO2 max/5k effort) Wed: 3 hours Z2, Z3/Tempo up climbs Thu: 2 hrs w/2x20 min @ FTP, 5 min recovery Fri: 2 hours w/10x15s sprint + 60min tempo Sat: 3 hour easy spin + 10x30s ON /30s OFF neuromuscular work Sun: 5 hour spin (Z2)
Cycling also includes a greater emphasis on skills type work that you really don't see in running. Things like big gear work (<70 rpm) at a mod/high intensity, spinning drills, out of the saddle climbing, etc.
If you want a great read Cameron Cogburn has a really nice writeup about his training leading up to Mt. Washington. Keep in mind reading it though that this being an extremely steep HC (avg 12%) it's very much like training to run a half marathon, as the effort is just under an hour in length, and due to the climbing nature of it is much more like a race in that it's pure fitness (w/kg). Training for other races like crits, road races, etc. usually shifts the emphasis a little more to higher end power.
I got slightly injured after my workout at tuesday. About two hours after the run the top of foot started to hurt (the run was completely fine). Walking was painful. Tried to run the next day and had to turn around after a 100 metres. It has gotten better since but I still can't run. I'll continue to rest the weekend and gonna see a doctor at monday if I still can't run then. Until then cross-training on the stationary bike ... . I hope it's not a stress fracture but I imagine it would hurt more.
On January 23 2015 22:56 Don_Julio wrote: I got slightly injured after my workout at tuesday. About two hours after the run the top of foot started to hurt (the run was completely fine). Walking was painful. Tried to run the next day and had to turn around after a 100 metres. It has gotten better since but I still can't run. I'll continue to rest the weekend and gonna see a doctor at monday if I still can't run then. Until then cross-training on the stationary bike ... . I hope it's not a stress fracture but I imagine it would hurt more.
I don't really know much about your training background, but it's not uncommon for stress fractures to go unnoticed for some time.
On January 23 2015 22:56 Don_Julio wrote: I got slightly injured after my workout at tuesday. About two hours after the run the top of foot started to hurt (the run was completely fine). Walking was painful. Tried to run the next day and had to turn around after a 100 metres. It has gotten better since but I still can't run. I'll continue to rest the weekend and gonna see a doctor at monday if I still can't run then. Until then cross-training on the stationary bike ... . I hope it's not a stress fracture but I imagine it would hurt more.
Oh, man. No!!!!! So sorry to hear that, Don_Julio. Really hope it's not a fracture, too, and if it is that it heals soon.
On January 13 2015 03:58 Meat wrote: I'm in the Alpes now, trained a bit on a treadmill but I totally understimated the effect of height on my stamina and heart rate.
Haha yea it's pretty significant. I think I'm on the extreme end of the curve, but I live/train at 7500' (2000m) and when I come down to sea level I'm usually 30 sec/mile faster at a given effort than I am at home.
This running stuff is really doing it's best to drive me insane though. Just an aggravating combination of nagging stuff. First it's blisters, then it's a nagging achilles thing, then it's a week long head cold combined with 0 degree temps, then it's a calf spasm (charlie horse) that leaves the leg too sore to walk on for like 5 days....
you get the picture. It's like there is some force out there that is preventing me from running more then 15-20 miles in a given week.
Could also be a result of the high volume (12-15 hrs/wk) I've been doing for the past month or so, but everytime I do go out for a run I've really felt sluggish. I took my usual 2.5 week break in October and since coming back from that it's as if I've lost 40 s/mile from my paces. Admittedly, I'm about 10lbs heavier than I was right before that, but I don't think that explains a full 40s.
On the plus side though I've been eating freaking awesome since the 1st, weight is coming off, and the cycling is going very nice. Just need the damn running to come around since I really do want to take a crack at a nice 5k build leading to a goal race in April before I cycle full time in the summer.
Happy new year! Sorry I'm so late to the party here. It's great to see this thread rocking along, even if some passing hacker did insert "cycling" in the title for some reason. :p
Here's a quick rundown of where I'm at at the dawn of 2015 and where I hope to be.
My general goal this winter is to maintain more of the fitness from my last race cycle than I've done in the past. For the two winters previous to this, which are the first two after I got a bit more serious about running, I've clocked around 70k per week, all of it pretty easy. I've settled on a sub-2:30 as a good marathoning goal for the next two years, and getting there means throwing away less work in the cold months.
So since I recovered from the marathon I ran in October I've been hitting 100 k per week with at least one workout. For a while, this meant running on a treadmill, but I cancelled my membership after about six weeks because treadmills were making me hate running. I'd been going to the indoor track since then on my own, though that changed today because of an exciting development I'll get to shortly.
The other notable change this season for me is that I've met a lot more local runners and I've been running with company a lot more. There are two guys in particular, one with a 2:28 PB and the other 2:34, who have been very good training buddies. They both suggested I seek out some coaching, and mentioned another local guy who trains a ton of people and ran 2:20 many moons ago.
So today I went to me first group workout with this new group. It was a mix of an outdoor tempo workout and short indoor intervals, and overall I'm very surprised at how good I felt, even if I did feel like a bit of an old fart. Most people in the group are in their early 20s. I'm 28, and though I could once dunk pretty good (I'm about 6'2 and played basketball in high school and university), my peak explosive days are far behind me. So for the tempo part of the workout I was right at the front of the group and feeling very comfortable, and then when we did the short stuff I was hanging on for dear life at the back of the pack.
Anyway, I'm super jazzed about the group and very excited to start working towards my 2015 goals. These are:
4:45 road mile: there's a marked mile I often run. The record was 4:45 on Strava until recently when it disappeared, leaving me the KOM with a 4:53. Before it went down an Internet black hole, I wanted to wrest that record away fair and square. I think I can still do it, though I'm not sure exactly when it would make most sense to put in a good attempt. This is by far my least important goal.
1:15 spring half marathon: registered for Vancouver (May 3) yesterday. I probably wont' be in shape to challenge my PB (1:13), but I've heard it's a fast course and I've still got four months to get ready, so I think a respectable 1:15 will be possible.
PB in August half marathon: one of my training buddies has a PB of 1:12-mid, so I think trying to best him would be a good goal.
New marathon PB in the fall: I know I can go faster than 2:39. Actually, I'm pretty sure I was able to last fall too, but some dumb decisions and bad luck intervened. So technically anything under 2:39 would fit the bill here, but I think trying to get as far below 2:35 as possible is a more inspiring goal.
The only other fitness change I've made is chinups. After about two months of work, I can now do three sets of ten reps pretty well, and last weekend I installed a sweet chin bar in my place so now I don't even have to go to the gym to do them. I think they're a great addition to my core strength exercises, plus they help out a gun show a bit, which doesn't hurt any.
And that's me for running in 2015, at least so far. I meant for this to be short, but evidently I'm a huge blabbermouth.
Happy new year! Sorry I'm so late to the party here. It's great to see this thread rocking along, even if some passing hacker did insert "cycling" in the title for some reason. :p
Here's a quick rundown of where I'm at at the dawn of 2015 and where I hope to be.
My general goal this winter is to maintain more of the fitness from my last race cycle than I've done in the past. For the two winters previous to this, which are the first two after I got a bit more serious about running, I've clocked around 70k per week, all of it pretty easy. I've settled on a sub-2:30 as a good marathoning goal for the next two years, and getting there means throwing away less work in the cold months.
So since I recovered from the marathon I ran in October I've been hitting 100 k per week with at least one workout. For a while, this meant running on a treadmill, but I cancelled my membership after about six weeks because treadmills were making me hate running. I'd been going to the indoor track since then on my own, though that changed today because of an exciting development I'll get to shortly.
The other notable change this season for me is that I've met a lot more local runners and I've been running with company a lot more. There are two guys in particular, one with a 2:28 PB and the other 2:34, who have been very good training buddies. They both suggested I seek out some coaching, and mentioned another local guy who trains a ton of people and ran 2:20 many moons ago.
So today I went to me first group workout with this new group. It was a mix of an outdoor tempo workout and short indoor intervals, and overall I'm very surprised at how good I felt, even if I did feel like a bit of an old fart. Most people in the group are in their early 20s. I'm 28, and though I could once dunk pretty good (I'm about 6'2 and played basketball in high school and university), my peak explosive days are far behind me. So for the tempo part of the workout I was right at the front of the group and feeling very comfortable, and then when we did the short stuff I was hanging on for dear life at the back of the pack.
Anyway, I'm super jazzed about the group and very excited to start working towards my 2015 goals. These are:
4:45 road mile: there's a marked mile I often run. The record was 4:45 on Strava until recently when it disappeared, leaving me the KOM with a 4:53. Before it went down an Internet black hole, I wanted to wrest that record away fair and square. I think I can still do it, though I'm not sure exactly when it would make most sense to put in a good attempt. This is by far my least important goal.
1:15 spring half marathon: registered for Vancouver (May 3) yesterday. I probably wont' be in shape to challenge my PB (1:13), but I've heard it's a fast course and I've still got four months to get ready, so I think a respectable 1:15 will be possible.
PB in August half marathon: one of my training buddies has a PB of 1:12-mid, so I think trying to best him would be a good goal.
New marathon PB in the fall: I know I can go faster than 2:39. Actually, I'm pretty sure I was able to last fall too, but some dumb decisions and bad luck intervened. So technically anything under 2:39 would fit the bill here, but I think trying to get as far below 2:35 as possible is a more inspiring goal.
The only other fitness change I've made is chinups. After about two months of work, I can now do three sets of ten reps pretty well, and last weekend I installed a sweet chin bar in my place so now I don't even have to go to the gym to do them. I think they're a great addition to my core strength exercises, plus they help out a gun show a bit, which doesn't hurt any.
And that's me for running in 2015, at least so far. I meant for this to be short, but evidently I'm a huge blabbermouth.
That makes me excited to follow your races this year. Having a coach and a group of people who are even faster than you are will be great for your performance. ___________
My foot injury: I'm pretty sure it's not a stress fracture or else it would hurt much more. I went cold turkey with running last week and the issue was goneat the weekend. Jogged a little at monday and had no problems. Ran my usual route yesterday and at abut 45 minutes the issue came back and persisits until now. It fits the symptoms of a bone spur the best (from reading the link in the OP) and I'm not quite sure how to treat this so I probably have to see a doctor after all. I hate not being able to run. I immediately feel worse physically and emotionally. I need this sport.
Hi guys! Just started running so I though maybe participating in this thread would keep me motivated Started about two weeks ago from being incredibly unfit, and have been running for 6 days consistently now, the same 2.5km circuit around the block to build up fitness/stamina. So far so good. I'm planning to be able to run it twice in the next two weeks or so. Or is that a bit of a ridiculous goal?
On January 29 2015 13:20 dravernor wrote: Hi guys! Just started running so I though maybe participating in this thread would keep me motivated Started about two weeks ago from being incredibly unfit, and have been running for 6 days consistently now, the same 2.5km circuit around the block to build up fitness/stamina. So far so good. I'm planning to be able to run it twice in the next two weeks or so. Or is that a bit of a ridiculous goal?
You can run it twice tomorrow if you keep the pace under control. Run the first 2.5k about 3 min slower than whatever you have been, then when you get halfway through the second 2.5k go ahead and finish faster if you feel good.
On January 29 2015 13:20 dravernor wrote: Hi guys! Just started running so I though maybe participating in this thread would keep me motivated Started about two weeks ago from being incredibly unfit, and have been running for 6 days consistently now, the same 2.5km circuit around the block to build up fitness/stamina. So far so good. I'm planning to be able to run it twice in the next two weeks or so. Or is that a bit of a ridiculous goal?
You can run it twice tomorrow if you keep the pace under control. Run the first 2.5k about 3 min slower than whatever you have been, then when you get halfway through the second 2.5k go ahead and finish faster if you feel good.
Oh really? And here I was looking at the couch to 5k program and thinking I was taking it a bit fast to be doing this in one week. My pace is pretty sucky at the moment, but I never considered that important until I could run the 2.5k comfortably, then I would focus on it. I'm just worried about burning out, y'know?
Anyway, thanks for the advice. I might try it next week when I'm a little more confident with my stamina.
Your fitness level is beyond C25K already. You can run 2,5k 6 times a week without walking so I guess you could run a 5k without stopping. Just make sure you don't up your mileage too fast. Rule of thumb is max 10% per week (but can be more at your level). So increase the distance of one of your runs and make that your long run.
Was at an orthopaedist today. My foot is no fracture, bone spur or any malfuntion with a joint. The doc's elaborated gues is that it's Tenosynovitis most likely caused by shoes that are too tight. I have to not run until the issue is gone. They taped my foot to stabilze it and I will get insoles because the X-Ray showed that my foot is a little weak (nothing drastic though). Will try a different lacing technique when I can run again and probably put some foam rubber between the injured spot and the shoe.
Was at an orthopaedist today. My foot is no fracture, bone spur or any malfuntion with a joint. The doc's elaborated gues is that it's Tenosynovitis most likely caused by shoes that are too tight. I have to not run until the issue is gone. They taped my foot to stabilze it and I will get insoles because the X-Ray showed that my foot is a little weak (nothing drastic though). Will try a different lacing technique when I can run again and probably put some foam rubber between the injured spot and the shoe.
Glad to hear that it's not anything more major. Let me know how the insoles work out for you - I had a bit of planar fasciitis last year that I'm hoping doesn't pop up again and have considered insoles. Did your doctors recommend any lower leg/foot strength exercises?
Was at an orthopaedist today. My foot is no fracture, bone spur or any malfuntion with a joint. The doc's elaborated gues is that it's Tenosynovitis most likely caused by shoes that are too tight. I have to not run until the issue is gone. They taped my foot to stabilze it and I will get insoles because the X-Ray showed that my foot is a little weak (nothing drastic though). Will try a different lacing technique when I can run again and probably put some foam rubber between the injured spot and the shoe.
Glad to hear that it's not anything more major. Let me know how the insoles work out for you - I had a bit of planar fasciitis last year that I'm hoping doesn't pop up again and have considered insoles. Did your doctors recommend any lower leg/foot strength exercises?
I asked for it but he said that it's too much effort and therefore unrealistic to do enough excercises to have a meaningful effect. Kinda weird. Maybe he just didn't want to spend anymore of his time with me because his practice was packed.
Good luck with your Ultra. Are you serious about wanting to become an Ultrarunner or is it a one time thing?
I've never been around the big league or really top runners (i.e. just casual running clubs, and decent but not great high school), so seeing guys that improved so much from basically nothing always struck me as really incredible, moreso than the bunch of guys that flip flopped around being in the "fast" range. That's a ton of work ethic to pull off. Building consistency is really key, so you got a great start!
I'm still having issue with my knee (some kind of tendinitis on the lateral side i think, i just hope it's not the meniscus because that would suck...), and now there is too much snow for me to run... i guess i'll keep to in-door climbing for now.
Admittedly the current figure of 10% error is too big to be used with confidence in training, however if they can improve that some the running training landscape would likely change forever.
Probably does needs a HUD if you wanna use it efficiently in real time though.
Anyone able to get into this article (the login process seems to take more information than I have) and review? Quite a lotta people are now putting the New Yorker (http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/02/cool-news-jogging-too-much-is-bad-for-you.html?mid=facebook_nymag) and BBC links on social media and I want to read the source because I suspect something is being mistranslated by the new orgs.
Nevermins, doc friend of mine was able to download it as a PDF for me, will look at it tonight.
BACKGROUND People who are physically active have at least a 30% lower risk of death during follow-up compared with those who are inactive. However, the ideal dose of exercise for improving longevity is uncertain.
OBJECTIVES The aim of this study was to investigate the association between jogging and long-term, all-cause mortality by focusing specifically on the effects of pace, quantity, and frequency of jogging.
METHODS As part of the Copenhagen City Heart Study, 1,098 healthy joggers and 3,950 healthy nonjoggers have been prospectively followed up since 2001. Cox proportional hazards regression analysis was performed with age as the underlying time scale and delayed entry.
RESULTS Compared with sedentary nonjoggers, 1 to 2.4 h of jogging per week was associated with the lowest mortality (multivariable hazard ratio [HR]: 0.29; 95% confidence interval [CI]: 0.11 to 0.80). The optimal frequency of jogging was 2 to 3 times per week (HR: 0.32; 95% CI: 0.15 to 0.69) or #1 time per week (HR: 0.29; 95% CI: 0.12 to 0.72). The optimal pace was slow (HR: 0.51; 95% CI: 0.24 to 1.10) or average (HR: 0.38; 95% CI: 0.22 to 0.66). The joggers were divided into light, moderate, and strenuous joggers. The lowest HR for mortality was found in light joggers (HR: 0.22; 95% CI: 0.10 to 0.47), followed by moderate joggers (HR: 0.66; 95% CI: 0.32 to 1.38) and strenuous joggers (HR: 1.97; 95% CI: 0.48 to 8.14).
I don't want to post up the PDF since my friend had to log in to download it, but I'll read through and provide my thoughts..
My thoughts below (disclaimer, I'm a layman):
The study assumes a light pace equals 6 metabolic equivalents (METs) given a frequency of less than 2.5 hours of jogging a week divided by 3 times a week. A moderate pace is rated at greater than 2.5 hours of jogging a week divided by 3 times a week (or a fast pace less than 4 hours a week divided by 3 times a week). A strenuous pace is rated at more than 12 METs, given more than 4 hours a week divided by 3 times a week.
Per Wiki and the web, 6 METs is jogging in general (10 minute miles) while 12 METs is approximately 8 minute miles. I don't know how accurate this is, but it's what I find on the web.
The study states that, for a nonjogger reference (1.00HR) and adjusted for age, sex, smoking, alcohol intake, education, and diabetes, a jogger running less than 1hr a week has a HR of 0.47. A jogger running 1-2.4hrs/week has a HR of 0.29. A jogger running 2.5-4hrs a week has a HR of 0.65. A jogger running more than 4 hours a week has a HR of 0.6.
For a nonjogger reference of (1.00HR), adjusted for the same factors above, a jogger who runs 1 time a week has a HR of 0.29. A jogger who runs 2-3 times a week has a HR of 0.32. A jogger who runs more than 3 times a week has a HR of 0.71.
For a nonjogger reference of 1.00HR, adjusted from the same factors above, a jogger who runs at a low space has a HR of 0.51. A jogger who runs at a moderate pace has a HR of 0.38. A jogger who runs at a strenuous pace has a HR of 0.94.
I don't know how these numbers combine given something like a jogger running 2.4hrs a week, once a week, at a moderate pace, but it seems that those exact factors provided the lowest mortality rate/hazard ratio. The paper makes a statement that a METs of 12 at an extended duration for a long period of time can pose risks to the cardiovascular system due to the high intensity of exercise. In all cases, jogging is better than being sedentary - but the paper makes the statement that vigorous jogging comes close to having the same hazard ratio as being sedentary.
The hazard ratio is a reference to deaths caused by respiratory diseases, stroke, and cancer (with the adjustments made for age, sex, smoking, etc). The paper mentions that past studies have found a similar U shape curve when accounting for energy expenditure/exercise intensity with respect to mortality rates. A reference study (by Paffenbarger et al) stated that a physical activity increase from 500-3500kcal (over resting rate) per week is the optimal range of optimizing long-term cardiovascular health and life expectancy - and anything above or below that would increase the mortality rate. The study also makes the statement that high intensity regimens can improve peak cardiac performance and cardiorespiratory fitness, it may not be ideal for promoting long term CV health and overall life expectancy.
I'm not sure how the HR rate works - if someone with a better understanding can help explain it, that'd be great. My assumption at this time is that if the control is HR=1.00 and the result is a HR=0.30, that means that for 10 people who die under the control group, only 3 people will die under the result group. If that's wrong, let me know.
I myself think that I'm a moderate runner. Before winter I was doing 2-3 runs a week, about 4-8 miles per run, at a pace of about 9-10 minute/mile (totaling an average of 2.4hrs of running a week). I was planning to maintain that for this year as an enthusiast jogger.
Anyone able to get into this article (the login process seems to take more information than I have) and review? Quite a lotta people are now putting the New Yorker (http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/02/cool-news-jogging-too-much-is-bad-for-you.html?mid=facebook_nymag) and BBC links on social media and I want to read the source because I suspect something is being mistranslated by the new orgs.
Nevermins, doc friend of mine was able to download it as a PDF for me, will look at it tonight.
Disappointing they didn't break it down further and have further categories for there high end scale. Would have been nice to see something that also corresponded roughly to 50mpw, 70mpw, and 100mpw to see if the trend remained consistent. Quite possible though that they just wouldn't have had the sample numbers they needed in those ranges to get a statistically significant result though, but would further support or lessen the potentially causal link.
The one thing I always hate about these studies is that they always set arbitrary paces for fast/medium/slow. I guess it likely averages out across the population, but for some people 8:30 pace is slow as hell, and for other people a 12:00 pace is hammering away. If it doesn't average out that is a potential confounder.
Again, however, maximal CV longevity benefits were noted with moderate doses of running (specifically 6 to 12 miles per week), running durations of approximately 50 to 120 min per week, a running frequency of approximately 3 times per week, and a modest pace of approximately 6 to 7 miles per hour. Our findings are aligned in that a U-shaped or reverse J-shaped relationship was noted, whereas higher doses of running were associated with loss of approximately one-third to one-half of the CV mortality benefits linked to moderate doses of running. In fact, the most favorable running regimen for reducing CV mortality in that study was 6 miles per week, 3 running days per week, and a pace of 7 miles per hour.
This really makes me question the study. It's interesting there is an association in the first place, but this would be like analyzing smoking and finding that someone who smokes a cigarette bi monthly is at a higher risk for cancer. Hard to imagine the cigarette is doing that.
In that same manner, is 6 miles a week even exercise? Hardly enough to really do much for somebody. I'd find it more probable that this increase in mortality comes about from those jogging for health leading generally more conscious lives.
even slow jogging (6 METs) corresponds to vigorous exercise
lol
strenuous jogging (8:30 pace) corresponds to very heavy vigorous exercise (≥12 METs)
The one thing that doesn't suprise me is the return towards baseline in mortality as jogging frequency/intensity increases. I'm surprised it seems to do so at such a moderate level of running, but would expect that as you start getting into 40, 70, or 100mpw.
It will make you one absurdly fit, fast, beastly monster; but I don't think there is anything healthy about running 100mpw. That kind of training is damn hard on the body. Fortunately the people running those kinds of volumes aren't running for health, they are running to compete, to test limits, and to be as good as they can be. Health isn't the goal.
Ah thanks! I think one thing to be taken into context in the report is that it's saying that light to moderate exercise is the best method of improving life expectancy for most people given the average person's likelihood of smoking, dieting, drinking, etc. If you exceed the light to moderate exercise, you bring yourself back towards "normal" healthiness - but you don't become less healthy than a sedentary person.
I like the reference report that mentions kcal, because I actually don't really know METs. Given a increase of 500-3500kcal per week, that seems to be a pretty reasonable workout regimen for most people. And I agree, people running 100mpw are running to compete and push themselves - not for life expectancy. They have higher peaks than the average person, while maintaining the same life expectancy (or at least a little better) than the sedentary person.
Thanks for the very informative summation and discussion, guys. I won't pretend to understand the nitty-gritty of the science, but trying to follow along while informed people go over it is very interesting.
For me, as long as my running isn't taking decades off my life, I'm OK with it. Though I certainly prize good health, I run at this point in my life to answer one question: how fast can I go? Finding this out feels important and this is the best time of life to do it. I probably won't be able to knock out 100mpw in my 40s. I also don't think I'd be happy, right now, running just the distances often suggested as "safest" in studies like this one.
I've talked about research like this with both my family doctor and my girlfriend, who is a physician, and they both don't see anything wrong with my mileage for now.
The most annoying thing about publications like this, I find, isn't the findings or even the news coverage of the findings, but the mis-informed or nosy friends and acquaintances who will, inevitably, ask me in the coming weeks if I'm aware that running will kill you instantly and that I should stop right away.
On February 04 2015 14:18 JinDesu wrote: From the abstract:
BACKGROUND People who are physically active have at least a 30% lower risk of death during follow-up compared with those who are inactive. However, the ideal dose of exercise for improving longevity is uncertain.
OBJECTIVES The aim of this study was to investigate the association between jogging and long-term, all-cause mortality by focusing specifically on the effects of pace, quantity, and frequency of jogging.
METHODS As part of the Copenhagen City Heart Study, 1,098 healthy joggers and 3,950 healthy nonjoggers have been prospectively followed up since 2001. Cox proportional hazards regression analysis was performed with age as the underlying time scale and delayed entry.
RESULTS Compared with sedentary nonjoggers, 1 to 2.4 h of jogging per week was associated with the lowest mortality (multivariable hazard ratio [HR]: 0.29; 95% confidence interval [CI]: 0.11 to 0.80). The optimal frequency of jogging was 2 to 3 times per week (HR: 0.32; 95% CI: 0.15 to 0.69) or #1 time per week (HR: 0.29; 95% CI: 0.12 to 0.72). The optimal pace was slow (HR: 0.51; 95% CI: 0.24 to 1.10) or average (HR: 0.38; 95% CI: 0.22 to 0.66). The joggers were divided into light, moderate, and strenuous joggers. The lowest HR for mortality was found in light joggers (HR: 0.22; 95% CI: 0.10 to 0.47), followed by moderate joggers (HR: 0.66; 95% CI: 0.32 to 1.38) and strenuous joggers (HR: 1.97; 95% CI: 0.48 to 8.14).
I don't want to post up the PDF since my friend had to log in to download it, but I'll read through and provide my thoughts..
My thoughts below (disclaimer, I'm a layman):
The study assumes a light pace equals 6 metabolic equivalents (METs) given a frequency of less than 2.5 hours of jogging a week divided by 3 times a week. A moderate pace is rated at greater than 2.5 hours of jogging a week divided by 3 times a week (or a fast pace less than 4 hours a week divided by 3 times a week). A strenuous pace is rated at more than 12 METs, given more than 4 hours a week divided by 3 times a week.
Per Wiki and the web, 6 METs is jogging in general (10 minute miles) while 12 METs is approximately 8 minute miles. I don't know how accurate this is, but it's what I find on the web.
The study states that, for a nonjogger reference (1.00HR) and adjusted for age, sex, smoking, alcohol intake, education, and diabetes, a jogger running less than 1hr a week has a HR of 0.47. A jogger running 1-2.4hrs/week has a HR of 0.29. A jogger running 2.5-4hrs a week has a HR of 0.65. A jogger running more than 4 hours a week has a HR of 0.6.
For a nonjogger reference of (1.00HR), adjusted for the same factors above, a jogger who runs 1 time a week has a HR of 0.29. A jogger who runs 2-3 times a week has a HR of 0.32. A jogger who runs more than 3 times a week has a HR of 0.71.
For a nonjogger reference of 1.00HR, adjusted from the same factors above, a jogger who runs at a low space has a HR of 0.51. A jogger who runs at a moderate pace has a HR of 0.38. A jogger who runs at a strenuous pace has a HR of 0.94.
I don't know how these numbers combine given something like a jogger running 2.4hrs a week, once a week, at a moderate pace, but it seems that those exact factors provided the lowest mortality rate/hazard ratio. The paper makes a statement that a METs of 12 at an extended duration for a long period of time can pose risks to the cardiovascular system due to the high intensity of exercise. In all cases, jogging is better than being sedentary - but the paper makes the statement that vigorous jogging comes close to having the same hazard ratio as being sedentary.
The hazard ratio is a reference to deaths caused by respiratory diseases, stroke, and cancer (with the adjustments made for age, sex, smoking, etc). The paper mentions that past studies have found a similar U shape curve when accounting for energy expenditure/exercise intensity with respect to mortality rates. A reference study (by Paffenbarger et al) stated that a physical activity increase from 500-3500kcal (over resting rate) per week is the optimal range of optimizing long-term cardiovascular health and life expectancy - and anything above or below that would increase the mortality rate. The study also makes the statement that high intensity regimens can improve peak cardiac performance and cardiorespiratory fitness, it may not be ideal for promoting long term CV health and overall life expectancy.
I'm not sure how the HR rate works - if someone with a better understanding can help explain it, that'd be great. My assumption at this time is that if the control is HR=1.00 and the result is a HR=0.30, that means that for 10 people who die under the control group, only 3 people will die under the result group. If that's wrong, let me know.
I myself think that I'm a moderate runner. Before winter I was doing 2-3 runs a week, about 4-8 miles per run, at a pace of about 9-10 minute/mile (totaling an average of 2.4hrs of running a week). I was planning to maintain that for this year as an enthusiast jogger.
I believe you got the hazard ratio correct, however, based on the results of the study,
1 to 2.4 h of jogging per week was associated with the lowest mortality (multivariable hazard ratio [HR]: 0.29; 95% confidence interval [CI]: 0.11 to 0.80). The optimal frequency of jogging was 2 to 3 times per week (HR: 0.32; 95% CI: 0.15 to 0.69) or #1 time per week (HR: 0.29; 95% CI: 0.12 to 0.72). The optimal pace was slow (HR: 0.51; 95% CI: 0.24 to 1.10) or average (HR: 0.38; 95% CI: 0.22 to 0.66). The joggers were divided into light, moderate, and strenuous joggers. The lowest HR for mortality was found in light joggers (HR: 0.22; 95% CI: 0.10 to 0.47), followed by moderate joggers (HR: 0.66; 95% CI: 0.32 to 1.38) and strenuous joggers (HR: 1.97; 95% CI: 0.48 to 8.14).
As you can tell based on what I bolded, those were the data points that were completly insignificant. Especially the last value of the strenous joggers a confidence interval of 0.48-8.14 means that the true value could range anywhere in between there.
Anytime the confidence interval crosses 1 means that the data was statistically insignificant because it means that the result could also be due to chance. Also without reading more into the methods section it's hard to figure out if there was any selection bias or confounding factors (such as strenous joggers jogged in heavy traffic area and developed lung cancer due to inhaling either 2nd hand smoke or gas fumes).
Also, when the results are statistically insignificant, it is pretty much useless in the real world or clinically speaking. So those results that i bolded are also clinically insignificant lol.
Also we should also remember that the average tour de france rider lived like 6-7 years longer than the average joe! and their exercise regime is no where near moderate-most definitely extreme.
But for the most part, you can pretty much find a single study to support any point of view, there needs to be a bunch to make any solid conclusions, so train your hearts out!
YPang, thank you for your insight. I didn't know what confidence intervals meant, but I'll go look them up now. I suppose you do bring up a good point, don't jog behind heavy polluting vehicles
On February 05 2015 15:14 JinDesu wrote: YPang, thank you for your insight. I didn't know what confidence intervals meant, but I'll go look them up now. I suppose you do bring up a good point, don't jog behind heavy polluting vehicles
yeah the confidence interval range is pretty much stating what the hazard ratio COULD potentially be. So when the confidence interval is something like "0.22-1.45" it means that it can literally range anywhere in between there since it crosses 1 and has the chance of being just as good as the control group. Often times when you get a insignificant data, a small sample size is usually to blame because the researcher's aren't sure, and there are always outliers.
Again, without looking more into the methods to find for potential bias, the only thing the study was able to prove was that light exercise is good for you. Since the moderate, and streanous exercise's group both crossed 1 for the confidence interval.
On February 05 2015 15:14 JinDesu wrote: YPang, thank you for your insight. I didn't know what confidence intervals meant, but I'll go look them up now. I suppose you do bring up a good point, don't jog behind heavy polluting vehicles
yeah the confidence interval range is pretty much stating what the hazard ratio COULD potentially be. So when the confidence interval is something like "0.22-1.45" it means that it can literally range anywhere in between there since it crosses 1 and has the chance of being just as good as the control group. Often times when you get a insignificant data, a small sample size is usually to blame because the researcher's aren't sure, and there are always outliers.
Again, without looking more into the methods to find for potential bias,
the only thing the study was able to prove was that light exercise is good for you.
Since the moderate, and streanous exercise's group both crossed 1 for the confidence interval.
Well in fairness (though you probably know all of this since it seems you have some background in epidemiological studys/methods) it doesn't technically prove that. It just says with confidence that people that engage in light jogging / average speed live longer than sedentary people. But there are other potential confounders that could explain the reason (i.e. people that do light running are more likely to eat better, visit the doctor more, sleep more, etc. )
On February 05 2015 15:14 JinDesu wrote: YPang, thank you for your insight. I didn't know what confidence intervals meant, but I'll go look them up now. I suppose you do bring up a good point, don't jog behind heavy polluting vehicles
yeah the confidence interval range is pretty much stating what the hazard ratio COULD potentially be. So when the confidence interval is something like "0.22-1.45" it means that it can literally range anywhere in between there since it crosses 1 and has the chance of being just as good as the control group. Often times when you get a insignificant data, a small sample size is usually to blame because the researcher's aren't sure, and there are always outliers.
Again, without looking more into the methods to find for potential bias,
the only thing the study was able to prove was that light exercise is good for you.
Since the moderate, and streanous exercise's group both crossed 1 for the confidence interval.
Well in fairness (though you probably know all of this since it seems you have some background in epidemiological studys/methods) it doesn't technically prove that. It just says with confidence that people that engage in light jogging / average speed live longer than sedentary people. But there are other potential confounders that could explain the reason (i.e. people that do light running are more likely to eat better, visit the doctor more, sleep more, etc. )
yup that could be a potential confounder too, i actually didnt even think about it, sometimes the most obvious stuff is invisible to the eye.
It seems that I have overcome my foot injury. The stablilizing tape and different lacing technique seem to work. Went for a tempo run today and I don't have any issues despite the increased impact. I lost quite a lot of fitness through the two weeks of almost not running. Not sure if I can get into PR shape in six weeks.
Go Don_Julio go! Any race after a recovery from injury is a good one.
I'm running the Vancouver half marathon on May 3rd. There's a 100 mile relay team race in Alberta in June that my training group enters two teams for. To make our A team, I'd have to run Vancouver in 1:11 or 1:12. My coach thinks I can do this, but I'm sceptical. My 1:13 from August came as a tuneup for a full marathon six weeks later. I was running pretty high mileage then and had a better base to my training than I do now.
On the other hand, I've got three and a half months to get ready, the traction outside will get better in late March, and I've got this new group to train with.
L_Master (or anyone else who knows my training a bit and knows running): is it realistic to think about 1:11 in May? I did the math on the pace during a quiet moment at work this afternoon and got kind of wigged out. Advise me!
On February 14 2015 15:43 Bonham wrote: I'm running the Vancouver half marathon on May 3rd. There's a 100 mile relay team race in Alberta in June that my training group enters two teams for. To make our A team, I'd have to run Vancouver in 1:11 or 1:12. My coach thinks I can do this, but I'm sceptical. My 1:13 from August came as a tuneup for a full marathon six weeks later. I was running pretty high mileage then and had a better base to my training than I do now.
On the other hand, I've got three and a half months to get ready, the traction outside will get better in late March, and I've got this new group to train with.
L_Master (or anyone else who knows my training a bit and knows running): is it realistic to think about 1:11 in May? I did the math on the pace during a quiet moment at work this afternoon and got kind of wigged out. Advise me!
Bonham, I would bet medium amounts of money on you being able to throw down a 1:11:something or faster. On Strava it shows you haven't really interrupted your running since last Summer's feats, you're already increasing base just a bit AND routinely setting PR's for short speedy sections during your workouts. 'All in spite of poor weather in January! I think the team aspect of it is going to drive you on to victory: in training and during the half I am assuming that you'll have a few friends/teammates to work with to get to this pace and have it feel (if not comfortable) manageable.
Good luck!!
P.S. Who are these fast people you are training with these days? Will some of your potential A-list peers be running Vancouver with you, so you can work with/key off of them?
On February 14 2015 15:43 Bonham wrote: Go Don_Julio go! Any race after a recovery from injury is a good one.
I'm running the Vancouver half marathon on May 3rd. There's a 100 mile relay team race in Alberta in June that my training group enters two teams for. To make our A team, I'd have to run Vancouver in 1:11 or 1:12. My coach thinks I can do this, but I'm sceptical. My 1:13 from August came as a tuneup for a full marathon six weeks later. I was running pretty high mileage then and had a better base to my training than I do now.
On the other hand, I've got three and a half months to get ready, the traction outside will get better in late March, and I've got this new group to train with.
L_Master (or anyone else who knows my training a bit and knows running): is it realistic to think about 1:11 in May? I did the math on the pace during a quiet moment at work this afternoon and got kind of wigged out. Advise me!
I would say that absolutely is a reasonably goal. 90s to knock off at your ability is never trivial, but it's certainly achievable. Obviously the comparable jump is knocking 20s of ones 5k pr over the course of a season, which is quite a common progression for collegiate athletes.
It's also worth noting that you were in the midst of M training at the time, something which doesn't usually put you in shape for a PR level half performance and as far as I know that was run with more or less nothing resembling any sort of taper.
Your base may have been better, but it's not like you've totally slacked off by any means and you're still getting in plenty of quality workouts. Moreover, by the time you are at at a level of cumulative training of yours the gains to be reapt from serious base training are minimal and long lasting. The fact that you're running 9-10 hours a week and not 11-12 isn't going to hurt you much, especially given the half is a shorter distance.
Also, ditto to most of what mtmentat says. Asking for 1:11 just doing base work and some short speed stuff on the track seems like it would be a stretch, but if you put in anywhere near as quality of a training cycle as you did for your marathon buildup I would think you have a very good chance of dropping a 1:11, weather and course variables working in your favor.
Thanks for the words of encouragement, you two. The idea of 1:11 seems a lot more achievable right now than it did last week. A-team, here I come!
On February 17 2015 08:48 mtmentat wrote:
Who are these fast people you are training with these days? Will some of your potential A-list peers be running Vancouver with you, so you can work with/key off of them?
It's a track group I found through running buddies who I found through the Internet and running into people at races and things. Mostly younger types, recent grads and some university students, so I'm older than most but not by much. There are something like 30 or 40 people in the group overall, but people are training for everything from the marathon to sprint distances. Most of the long distance guys don't race beyond the 10k, so I've got lots of people to chase when we're on the track, but tend to do better on the tempo, LT, and hill runs. They're a lot of fun to train with, especially now that I'm getting to know everyone a little bit.
I think I'm the only one from our group signed up for Vancouver right now, but there will still be a smokin' fast field there. I think the winner usually runs around a 65 or so, so if I can get into the top 10 or even top 15 I'll be very lucky.
Running's weird. Pretty much every run since October has been 8:00 pace or so being on the quicker end of what I'd call easy, and 7:30s more like an honest effort. Go out today and feel totally comfortable and relaxed, almost easy, at 7 flat pace.
That's generally been my experience with getting faster. You grind and grind and grind with no noticeable result, then one day you realize you're smashing a workout that by rights should be smashing you.
In other running news, did anyone else pay attention when Gezebe Dibaba set a new women's indoor 5k world record yesterday? 14:18 like it wasn't no thing.
On February 20 2015 23:45 Bonham wrote: That's generally been my experience with getting faster. You grind and grind and grind with no noticeable result, then one day you realize you're smashing a workout that by rights should be smashing you.
I agree with that for sure, when I'm actually training. But all I've been doing is like 15-20 mpw, and 98% of those as easy miles. Doesn't really seem like something I should improve a ton off.
In other running news, did anyone else pay attention when Gezebe Dibaba set a new women's indoor 5k world record yesterday? 14:18 like it wasn't no thing.
Everyone at practice yesterday said she's on the juice, but in the absence of evidence I don't see how we can write this off as a tainted performance.
How do you all feel about this? Is it possible to rejoice in a new WR without being cynical about PEDs?
Helluva run! What you said in your second line is exactly why I don't have any problem. I acknowledge in the back of my mind that it's possible she may have used PEDs, but I don't have evidence to believe she did so I go with the idea of innocent until proven guilty.
Sure, fast times are suspicious in some regards, but the truth is we don't really have any idea what is physically possible for an athlete. Even if we assume that all the the WRs are doped to the gills runs, just because someone runs faster doesn't, to me, mean that athlete must be a doper. Perhaps there is a guy out there that can run 12:25 5k clean. Seems unlikely given the way WR progression is beginning to level off, but the honest truth is we just don't know.
Added on to that, we don't even know if the current WRs themselves are doped performances. There are some reasonable arguments to suggest they might be, but all are speculation based.
So I guess for how I enjoy track without skepticism is a very strong style of innocent until proven guilty. Until they come up with physical evidence an athlete is doped, they are clean in my mind. Some would want to label this as willful ignorance, but not only is it a more enjoyable way to watch track its also the fairest to the athletes in my opinion, and I'm not going to be crushed if someone turns out to be a doper, because I am aware its a very real possibility that track is quite dirty, but unless/until they catch people its clean.
Unless we are talking about the Russians, cause like all of them just got banned lol.
Great run by Dibaba. Watch it! It's beautiful, almost a form of art.
It's hard to really enjoy performances like this because we have been spoiled so often. There will always be doubt in our minds and the sport will never get rid of this. That said I'm quite confident that one of if not the greatest running performance of all time the World Record by Paula Radcliffe is clean thanks to how open she's about getting the blood sample tested every time a better method of testing comes out. On the other hand the only running WRs that were almost certainly performed under the heavy influence of PED are the one from the 80s that still stand.
On February 21 2015 01:27 Don_Julio wrote: That said I'm quite confident that one of if not the greatest running performance of all time the World Record by Paula Radcliffe is clean thanks to how open she's about getting the blood sample tested every time a better method of testing comes out. On the other hand the only running WRs that were almost certainly performed under the heavy influence of PED are the one from the 80s that still stand.
I'm surprised that you feel so certain about the Radcliffe record. To me, it's one of the most suspicious. I'll pull together more info when I have more time, and I should say that I totally agree with L_Master that without proof we should default to "innocent until proven guilty," but even so, I would not pick her record as the least likely to be influenced by PEDs. Remember, Lance Armstrong was a big champion of anti-doping measures once.
Bought some new shoes today: a pair of adidas I know will serve me well, as I'm on my fourth pair of the model, and some Saucony Kilkenny XC5 cross-country flats. These come with spikes, which is a first for me. I mostly bought them because they were just $70 and they fit my feet well.
Questions: if I run without the spikes in the sockets, am I being a total bonehead? Also, if I wear these to indoor practice with the spikes, will the other runners in my group think I'm a total bonehead?
On a broader front, what shoes are you guys wearing? I have narrow feet and like to run with pretty minimalist shoes. I love adidas' adizero adios, Mizuno wave ekidens, and the New Balance Minimus Zero. I'm also picking my shoes for the spring right now. I usually buy 5-6 pairs each summer, so picks are welcome.
After being sick for a while and getting over a minor ankle injury, I'm finally getting back to training. I'm able to get my mpw up to 40-50 like I was aiming to, but I'm still having problems pushing my max distance in a run. Hopefully that'll get better as I get back into shape.
On a side note, strava is a really cool program, thanks for the recommendation.
On February 22 2015 08:19 atombombforpeace wrote: After being sick for a while and getting over a minor ankle injury, I'm finally getting back to training. I'm able to get my mpw up to 40-50 like I was aiming to, but I'm still having problems pushing my max distance in a run. Hopefully that'll get better as I get back into shape.
On a side note, strava is a really cool program, thanks for the recommendation.
Are you A D at Strava? If yes: That's a solid max distance and will serve you well unless you're training for a marathon. _____
Just set a PR for weekly distance but I kind of cheated because I moved my last week's long run to this week's monday.
Mo Farah ran his first World Record btw. For 2 miles:
Yes, I'm A D, I just didn't put my full name there for whatever reason. I do plan on marathon training, I just didn't want to increase my mpw too quickly since last time I did that I felt awful after a week or two. This time I hope to add 2-3 mpw each week depending on how I'm feeling.
On February 23 2015 01:17 atombombforpeace wrote: Yes, I'm A D, I just didn't put my full name there for whatever reason. I do plan on marathon training, I just didn't want to increase my mpw too quickly since last time I did that I felt awful after a week or two. This time I hope to add 2-3 mpw each week depending on how I'm feeling.
No worries, I don't use my full name there either. The slow increase of mileage is a good idea. Do you have a race in mind or is it just something you want to do eventually. Maybe have a look at some training plans to get an idea of what marathon training should look like. I see Hal Higdon's plans recommended everywhere and plan to use an intermediate one for Berlin.
On February 23 2015 02:12 dravernor wrote: Shit, she can run a 5k faster than I can run a 4k.
Yea, 14:30 for 4k is far beyond just"good shape" territory. Does put into perspective though how good some of these runners really are. Don't even start thinking about the mens side because it just gets insane there.
@Bonham - Wish I had more to add about shoes, but I pretty much have always just ran in cheap NB shoes from Kohls. Probably would be worth it to invest in a decent trainer and a good racing flat...but never have.
As for me, the training on the bike is going awesomely. Pretty much looking like I'm going to crush my end of year "reach" goals here in March.
Disappointed I didn't get to put in a nice block of running focused training here in the spring, but body just didn't cooperate and with constant nagging little issues never felt comfortable doing any workouts. Might do a little more emphasis on the run for Bolder Boulder, but don't really know for sure at this point. DEFINITELY will be focusing on running in the fall after Pikes Peak Cycling Hill Climb though.
Coolest part about right now is how well this more or less abstinence from junk food has worked. I haven't really eaten any soda/junk food/processed food since mid January with the exception of the occasional restaurant soda/meal after a particularly brutal ride. It's pretty much eliminated my overwhelming cravings and binge eating, so for once I'm feeling pretty confident about getting properly light. Down about 10lbs already from late December without even trying to cut calories or anything.
Signed up for my first bike race as well, March 14th Lookout Mtn HC. Shooting for a sub 20 time and win in category. Will be an adventure cause March in Colorado is hit or miss. You get 75 degree days, or you get days well below freezing with a foot of snow. Keeping mah fingers crossed.
I have a really bad habit of turning every treadmill run into a speed workout, I get to the 30 minute mark and just automatically start bumping the speed up till suddenly I'm at like 5:30/pace burning myself out in 2 minutes. this is probably why I only run fall marathons lol
On February 21 2015 16:20 Bonham wrote: Bought some new shoes today: a pair of adidas I know will serve me well, as I'm on my fourth pair of the model, and some Saucony Kilkenny XC5 cross-country flats. These come with spikes, which is a first for me. I mostly bought them because they were just $70 and they fit my feet well.
Questions: if I run without the spikes in the sockets, am I being a total bonehead? Also, if I wear these to indoor practice with the spikes, will the other runners in my group think I'm a total bonehead?
On a broader front, what shoes are you guys wearing? I have narrow feet and like to run with pretty minimalist shoes. I love adidas' adizero adios, Mizuno wave ekidens, and the New Balance Minimus Zero. I'm also picking my shoes for the spring right now. I usually buy 5-6 pairs each summer, so picks are welcome.
Didn't Kimetto wear boosts for the world record? I think he did. Looks a bit heavy for my tastes, and as I just spent about $400 on shoes last weekend, I think I'll pass for now. I'm curious to hear how they run for you, though.
On February 27 2015 13:39 N.geNuity wrote: Well guys, keep your body healthy in all aspects! I've been wiped to the floor with a flu this week
At least I think it is a flu.
Oh man same for me. It came all of a sudden. Some kind of Bronchitis and fever. The fever is almost gone now but I obviously lost my long run yesterday and will lose this week's workouts, too. Sometimes there's not much you can do.
@ Don_julio Thanks for that plan, I've seen various programs similar to it and it definitely looks effective, its just more of trying to find time on that many days of the week for me to keep up with it haha. Hopefully I'll be able to keep more of a schedule in the near future once some things get sorted out.
@ luckyfool Sup man, its been a while. I think I met you once pre blizzcon Anaheim, cool to see old faces still around unless that wasn't you in which case I'm sorry.
One week till Lookout HC. Pretty excited given how fantastic training has gone.
Then I'll start one running workout a week through March till our weekly hill climb TT series ends, then 2 running workouts per week through April as a little prep for Bolder Boulder.
Race Calendar likely looks like this:
April 4 - Nielson 2M April 11th - UCCS's Bash the Bluffs 5k May 2 - Nielson 2M May 16th - Colfax 5k OR Run to The Shrine, I'd rather race run to the shrine for some hill practice and absurd price of colfax, but I may not have the A wave qualifier out of the way yet for BB and be in need of a nice flatter race. May 25 - Bolder Boulder
Looks awesome, L_Master! Glad to see you coming back to running. You've been too long away on that silly wheeled sport. :p
In all seriousness, what will you look to run for 2M? Is that on a track? What's the A standard for BB?
On an unrelated note, does anyone have experience with Plantar Fasciitis? Felt a bit under my left heel at the track yesterday. I suspect my new shoes are to blame. I've started stretching and icing it, and I'm optimistic at this point it won't impact my training any, but I'm still curious to hear about anyone else's experience with this chronic runner's ailment.
So, have you had it? If so, how did it develop? What did you do to treat it? How long did it last?
2M is definitely NOT on the track. It's a dirt trail course, and though it doesn't really have hills it a gradual out and back of about 1%, with one section that undulates. Deceptively slow. Most good guys it seems can run a flat 5k at the same pace they run the Nielson. The good part, its FREE!
As for what I am looking for, no idea really. Depends how much the continuing weight loss helps (and it is helping in a MASSIVE way right now) and how much getting some running workouts gets me feeling quicker. Under 12 would be my April goal as of now, weight loss/workouts could change that dramatically though.
Bolder Boulder is the massive 10k race in Colorado (60000 people) and is divided into a bunch of waves from like A to BC or something like that. A wave is those than have a 38:00 10k time or equivalent within the last year. I need 11:20 for the 2M, or 18:20 5k to get in that.
No goal in mind for BB yet, too much unknown about how weight loss and training will impact where I am at. At current fitness I'd be shooting for sub 40, but hope to be talking much faster by the time the race comes along.
Good luck getting the A-wave, L_Master! Maybe looking forward to finally meeting you IRL then?
I have a friend up here who's just a few seconds out on every 5k/4Mile he's raced recently, very frustrating but it has made him buckle down and his training has gotten way better.
Race Calendar for me is also getting moderately well populated: April 26 - Canine Classic - 5k (friend's birthday race, same friend above's likely last chance to get A wave). May 25 - Bolder Boulder - 10k road (may have to be a conservative race, as my year's headliner, the Dirty 30, is right around the corner) May 30 - Dirty 30 - 50k trail June 13 - Mt. Evans Ascent - 14.5 mile high altitude road July 18 - Aspen Power of Four 22k - trail August 22 - Fort Collins Peach Festival - 5k speed throw-down pride race September - Rattlesnake Ramble - 4 mile trail sprint September - Neder Nederland - 10K road race (if they get the race organized this year)
I'm currently looking around for perhaps one more medium length trail run in October to finish out the racing year. Life, work, have been really busy, but the training is starting just now to pick up well for the Dirty 30, and I'm starting to get pumped for a good year of racing without injuries.
Looks awesome, L_Master! Glad to see you coming back to running. You've been too long away on that silly wheeled sport. :p
In all seriousness, what will you look to run for 2M? Is that on a track? What's the A standard for BB?
On an unrelated note, does anyone have experience with Plantar Fasciitis? Felt a bit under my left heel at the track yesterday. I suspect my new shoes are to blame. I've started stretching and icing it, and I'm optimistic at this point it won't impact my training any, but I'm still curious to hear about anyone else's experience with this chronic runner's ailment.
So, have you had it? If so, how did it develop? What did you do to treat it? How long did it last?
I've actually struggled with this a bit, too, since coming back from last year's Achilles injury. I didn't go to a doctor, but just did a lot of stretching and tried to spend less time standing around on hard surfaces (seemed to be inflaming it). I do a lot of hobby and cooking - so getting an anti-fatigue mat to stand on when I was working on a project was a nice thing. I also started wearing my hiking/backpacking boots around on a more regular basis. I have a theory that the more support you can give your feet and legs off the track, the more quickly they'll repair themselves, and so far I think it's working okay. I look like a dolt, but feel better for it.
Thanks for the perspective, mtmentat. What stretches did you do? I've found it feels good when I stand on a big book or the edge of a chair and curl my toes around the edge repeatedly. I've had less luck with the "pull on your toe" stretches. What worked for you?
On January 03 2015 20:46 Meat wrote: Got a half marathon coming up in 64 days. Right now I run about 50 minutes @ 11km/h with 2 training days a week. Probably need to add an extra training day. Will miss more than a week due to wintersports as well.
Update: Was progressing alright but then I got some issues with my calves about 3,5 weeks ago (the soleus muscle from what I understand) after doing some speedwork. Realized I was using terrible (non-running) shoes so got my really old worn-out Asics back. Didn't want new shoes so close to the race so just got some new soles and proper socks. Recovery started about 2 weeks back. So after that I only had 1 decent training with 15km.
Weather was really good, probably around 15'C with some sun. First 5km was easy, I started somewhere in the front between all the much faster runners so everyone was passing me. Arrived in 27 minutes at the 5km point. Between 5 and 10 I started getting blisters and slowed down a bit. 57 minutes for the 10km mark. The 10 to 15 was pretty easy, felt good besides the blisters getting worse. At 15km there was a small clim, took a lot of energy. The 17 to 19.5 were tough as hell. Made a nice sprint the last 100 or 200 meters passing a lot of people.
My goal was to arrive around 2:15:00 but I arrived in 2:02:26, so I'm very pleased with the result. Never ran so far, was lacking training and my 10km+ runs were always around 6:30 / km. Guess the athmosphere and starting in front helps a ton.
On March 08 2015 06:14 Bonham wrote: Thanks for the perspective, mtmentat. What stretches did you do? I've found it feels good when I stand on a big book or the edge of a chair and curl my toes around the edge repeatedly. I've had less luck with the "pull on your toe" stretches. What worked for you?
Probably more aptly described as heavy massage and then the "pull on your toes" stretch. Compressing and then stretching the area just in front of my heel (side-to-side, at first, trying to spread the foot apart back there, and then back-to-front) felt really good every time.
Sorry to see the aborted long run! Hope this gets sorted out soon; do you have a physio that you might schedule an appointment with?
On January 03 2015 20:46 Meat wrote: Got a half marathon coming up in 64 days. Right now I run about 50 minutes @ 11km/h with 2 training days a week. Probably need to add an extra training day. Will miss more than a week due to wintersports as well.
Update: Was progressing alright but then I got some issues with my calves about 3,5 weeks ago (the soleus muscle from what I understand) after doing some speedwork. Realized I was using terrible (non-running) shoes so got my really old worn-out Asics back. Didn't want new shoes so close to the race so just got some new soles and proper socks. Recovery started about 2 weeks back. So after that I only had 1 decent training with 15km.
Weather was really good, probably around 15'C with some sun. First 5km was easy, I started somewhere in the front between all the much faster runners so everyone was passing me. Arrived in 27 minutes at the 5km point. Between 5 and 10 I started getting blisters and slowed down a bit. 57 minutes for the 10km mark. The 10 to 15 was pretty easy, felt good besides the blisters getting worse. At 15km there was a small clim, took a lot of energy. The 17 to 19.5 were tough as hell. Made a nice sprint the last 100 or 200 meters passing a lot of people.
My goal was to arrive around 2:15:00 but I arrived in 2:02:26, so I'm very pleased with the result. Never ran so far, was lacking training and my 10km+ runs were always around 6:30 / km. Guess the athmosphere and starting in front helps a ton.
Now going to train for < 2:00:00
Nice stuff!
That's a pretty solid run for curtailed training. Given the circumstances under which you ran the race shooting for sub 1:50 would probably be a more meaningful goal. No way you don't smash 2:00 if you stay healthy
On March 08 2015 06:14 Bonham wrote: Thanks for the perspective, mtmentat. What stretches did you do? I've found it feels good when I stand on a big book or the edge of a chair and curl my toes around the edge repeatedly. I've had less luck with the "pull on your toe" stretches. What worked for you?
Probably more aptly described as heavy massage and then the "pull on your toes" stretch. Compressing and then stretching the area just in front of my heel (side-to-side, at first, trying to spread the foot apart back there, and then back-to-front) felt really good every time.
Sorry to see the aborted long run! Hope this gets sorted out soon; do you have a physio that you might schedule an appointment with?
At the risk of sounding like a politician, I'm cautiously optimistic at this point. I first felt it on Thursday, and the ice/stretching routine seems to be making it manageable so far. I'm going to get physio ASAP, though, which will hopefully be this week or next at the very latest. Thanks again for the feedback!
On January 03 2015 20:46 Meat wrote: Got a half marathon coming up in 64 days. Right now I run about 50 minutes @ 11km/h with 2 training days a week. Probably need to add an extra training day. Will miss more than a week due to wintersports as well.
Update: Was progressing alright but then I got some issues with my calves about 3,5 weeks ago (the soleus muscle from what I understand) after doing some speedwork. Realized I was using terrible (non-running) shoes so got my really old worn-out Asics back. Didn't want new shoes so close to the race so just got some new soles and proper socks. Recovery started about 2 weeks back. So after that I only had 1 decent training with 15km.
Weather was really good, probably around 15'C with some sun. First 5km was easy, I started somewhere in the front between all the much faster runners so everyone was passing me. Arrived in 27 minutes at the 5km point. Between 5 and 10 I started getting blisters and slowed down a bit. 57 minutes for the 10km mark. The 10 to 15 was pretty easy, felt good besides the blisters getting worse. At 15km there was a small clim, took a lot of energy. The 17 to 19.5 were tough as hell. Made a nice sprint the last 100 or 200 meters passing a lot of people.
My goal was to arrive around 2:15:00 but I arrived in 2:02:26, so I'm very pleased with the result. Never ran so far, was lacking training and my 10km+ runs were always around 6:30 / km. Guess the athmosphere and starting in front helps a ton.
Now going to train for < 2:00:00
Nice stuff!
That's a pretty solid run for curtailed training. Given the circumstances under which you ran the race shooting for sub 1:50 would probably be a more meaningful goal. No way you don't smash 2:00 if you stay healthy
Maybe I can aim for a bit faster, today I aim at walking stairs again :D Did some calculations on the 1:50 mark and that seems so hard to me. 1:55:00 is more realistic but then again it depends on when my next race is. Probably will do some smaller 10k races to work on speed first.
On January 03 2015 20:46 Meat wrote: Got a half marathon coming up in 64 days. Right now I run about 50 minutes @ 11km/h with 2 training days a week. Probably need to add an extra training day. Will miss more than a week due to wintersports as well.
Update: Was progressing alright but then I got some issues with my calves about 3,5 weeks ago (the soleus muscle from what I understand) after doing some speedwork. Realized I was using terrible (non-running) shoes so got my really old worn-out Asics back. Didn't want new shoes so close to the race so just got some new soles and proper socks. Recovery started about 2 weeks back. So after that I only had 1 decent training with 15km.
Weather was really good, probably around 15'C with some sun. First 5km was easy, I started somewhere in the front between all the much faster runners so everyone was passing me. Arrived in 27 minutes at the 5km point. Between 5 and 10 I started getting blisters and slowed down a bit. 57 minutes for the 10km mark. The 10 to 15 was pretty easy, felt good besides the blisters getting worse. At 15km there was a small clim, took a lot of energy. The 17 to 19.5 were tough as hell. Made a nice sprint the last 100 or 200 meters passing a lot of people.
My goal was to arrive around 2:15:00 but I arrived in 2:02:26, so I'm very pleased with the result. Never ran so far, was lacking training and my 10km+ runs were always around 6:30 / km. Guess the athmosphere and starting in front helps a ton.
Now going to train for < 2:00:00
Nice stuff!
That's a pretty solid run for curtailed training. Given the circumstances under which you ran the race shooting for sub 1:50 would probably be a more meaningful goal. No way you don't smash 2:00 if you stay healthy
Maybe I can aim for a bit faster, today I aim at walking stairs again :D Did some calculations on the 1:50 mark and that seems so hard to me. 1:55:00 is more realistic but then again it depends on when my next race is. Probably will do some smaller 10k races to work on speed first.
It should seem hard. I can't guarantee you'll get there, but if you put together a nice training cycle with some solid workouts you'll be shocked by how much faster you get. 1:55 is probably the realistic goal based on where you are right now, but in two or three months I wouldn't be at all surprised to see you eyeing 1:50 or quicker
I feel guilty but i took all of last week off, partially due to not having water/electricity until Wednesday to wash my kit, and partially because I'd been staying up past 12am and getting up at 5:20am was hard. I felt like shit all week and was lazy and ate badly. Last night I made myself go to bed at 11pm and I forced myself up this morning to run. I ran my best time so far on that route! And resultingly I felt better all day and ate better all day too.
Oh god my legs are sore. I haven't felt this way in so long, I wondered from time to time if my body had just gotten used to running and would never feel like this again. A tempo, some hills, and some 400s in one workout have informed that I was wrong. On the one hand, it's agonizing. On the other, it's encouraging. Soon they will be stronger!
This winter build has been unreal. I mean seriously fantasy level shit.
320W for 20 minutes tonight, with questionable starting pacing (345W for first 5 mins). Only about 20s down from one of the best riders in my city, as well as the 4x Czech National Junior champion.
5.5 w/kg for 20 mins as an end of summer goal is now very realistic. To put how crazy this feels to me if I pull it off, it's probably comparable to going from 19:00 5k shape to low/mid 14 5k shape in 8 months time.
Now that the weather is getting better i'm going to try to get back into running... around christmas i had to deal with some pains in my knee, it's a bit better now but I can still feel it so i'm going to go try to go for very short runs at the begining and increase very gradually. I already had similar issues with knee pains after a long period of inactivity, and usually it gets better as I get into shape. I have until july to get in semi decent shape for my triathlon .
On March 12 2015 13:03 L_Master wrote: This winter build has been unreal. I mean seriously fantasy level shit.
320W for 20 minutes tonight, with questionable starting pacing (345W for first 5 mins). Only about 20s down from one of the best riders in my city, as well as the 4x Czech National Junior champion.
5.5 w/kg for 20 mins as an end of summer goal is now very realistic. To put how crazy this feels to me if I pull it off, it's probably comparable to going from 19:00 5k shape to low/mid 14 5k shape in 8 months time.
Whoo, go L_Master! Any idea what's behind this mysterious improvement? EPO, perhaps?
As for me, I'm looking to build a bit more volume into my training starting next week with a few easy doubles. I think the track stuff has been improving my raw speed a little bit. I did a 4x1k workout at 5k pace that had me running around 15:15-15:30, which feels about right to me. (4 mins of rest between reps, but the whole thing was done after three pretty good hill reps in the same workout.)
It feels like I've got a pretty narrow range right now. I can cruise around 3:30/km for a tempo pretty comfortably, assuming good footing and a reasonably flat course, but if you ask me to run something shorter like an 800 rep I can't go too far below 3:00/km. For the distances I'm racing I don't really need to worry about going faster than that, but it's still weird to notice the way my body has adapted to marathoning over running a fast 3000m or what have you.
My main worry is still my feet. The PF feels pretty manageable, but it's hanging around and that makes me a bit nervous. Going to tweak some of the strengthening exercises this weekend and try to be more diligent about icing.
Today was a bit of struggle. Wasn't feeling good at all, and to be honest I think I left some of my race out there hammering on Wednesday. Doing 20 min TT, then another 15 mins of racing was pretty silly in hindsight.
Wierd feeling. In running even if you have a bad day shit still hurts. Today I just couldn't get up there and hammer, every time I tried to get into a harder gear my legs pretty much just gave me a big ole "nawp" and felt awful. Didn't feel any real fatigue after the race either.
All that said, pretty sure I was still 2nd or 3rd, so not a terrible debut, and I've still done 320W for 20 min in training, so I kno the fitness is there. This summer is going to be AWESOME!
Now to start working in some running stuff for BB in May. I've got some worked to do to not get spanked by my local running teamamates/partners. One guy just broke 18:00 for the first time with 17:35, another just went from 20:14 to 18:39, and two other guys ran 18:2x off of just base work. Gonna be tough to not get spanked at BB 10k
I have to start from zero again. Last year I was progressing towards the half marathon but pretty sure I can't run 5k atm with how shit my diet and exercise routine have been the past months. If my biking results so far are anything to go by I'm literally starting from nothing, where I did a 250km bike race and almost a half marathon 2 years ago.
Going out for my first run of the year now.
edit: That went better than expected. Used the same practice program (Start to Run by Belgian runner Evy Gruyaert) I used to work up to 5k originally. Thought I'd have to start with week 1, but started week 5 and completed the run without too much trouble. Think 5k isn't too far off after all.
He doesn't know how to finish second. Dropped out immediately after getting passed by other Americans? I guess he's finished in terms of dominating. Shame too cuz he's not even that old.
Last year had a pretty solid march-april stretch, and this year just slowly getting back up to speed!
I've been making steady progress after a good consistent january then an iffy february (flu hurt me for a while), but today had a good run on the very-near 4 mile (6.43 km) run I do. The actual distance is somewhere between 3.95 to 4.0 miles, I've never had a great estimate on the exact distance. I would estimate it as being 1.98 miles one way (I go out and back). BUT, today did it in 27:49. I'm very inconsistent with how I run it (typically a fraction over 14:00 on the way out, then sometimes I walk a minute somewhere in the way back so I take ~15 on the way back) but I'm slowly getting there!
For reference, june 2014 I had a 2 week span where I ran it 9 times and each time was approximately 26:20 (high end right at 27:00, most around 26:20).
So for the first time after leaving my soccer team three years ago I will do a sport with a clear goal in mind. On 6. September i want to run my first half marathon in Bochum (Germany). The last month I did a few easy runs to start. On Wednesday and Sunday I then did two long runs as a test where i am right now. Both times I managed to run 10k, the first time in 1:06:14, the second time in 57:50. The big difference probably is a result of the long run being way to early. Yesterday I started with my training plan (after getting my first running shoes, yay!), with 5k in a half hour, felt a bit weird with the new shoes, like not getting into a really rythm but I felt no pressure or pain in my feets so I think this will get better. From now on I will train three days a week and one or two cycling days, if I have enough time. After roughly 10 weeks I would like to do a 10k race, to get first experience with events like that, but i haven´t found one near my home so far. And then I have 15 weeks more to get to my goal. I would really like to have a certain time in mind as a goal, but I have no idea what is realistic for a beginner
Fucking flu. It totally knocked me out. Had fever of up to 40°C for five days and the bronchitis is still slowing me down. After a two and a half week of not running I tried again today and struggled to maintain a 5:40 pace. And my training was coming along so nicely qq. I planned to race in 11 days and was considering to try for a low 41 but this training cycle was completely cursed. On the bright side: Spring has arrived!
On March 18 2015 20:43 XPA wrote: So for the first time after leaving my soccer team three years ago I will do a sport with a clear goal in mind. On 6. September i want to run my first half marathon in Bochum (Germany). The last month I did a few easy runs to start. On Wednesday and Sunday I then did two long runs as a test where i am right now. Both times I managed to run 10k, the first time in 1:06:14, the second time in 57:50. The big difference probably is a result of the long run being way to early. Yesterday I started with my training plan (after getting my first running shoes, yay!), with 5k in a half hour, felt a bit weird with the new shoes, like not getting into a really rythm but I felt no pressure or pain in my feets so I think this will get better. From now on I will train three days a week and one or two cycling days, if I have enough time. After roughly 10 weeks I would like to do a 10k race, to get first experience with events like that, but i haven´t found one near my home so far. And then I have 15 weeks more to get to my goal. I would really like to have a certain time in mind as a goal, but I have no idea what is realistic for a beginner
How does the course of the HM look? Didn't find any information on its website. I'm still looking for a decent half to test for my fitness for Berlin and Bochum isn't too far away. The south of Bochum is really hilly though and I'm not sure I want to have a challenge like that so close to the full.
Are you in Bochum? Have a look at the calendar of the FLVW: https://www.flvwdialog.de/php/db/index.php (select "Volksläufe"). There's a free print version, too. Check with a local running store if they have it. The FLVW is universally hated but their calendar is quite convenient.
On March 19 2015 10:15 EpidemicSC wrote: Lifelong jogger here, new to long distance running. Gonna be running the Rock n' Roll marathon in San Diego in May and trying for a sub-4 hour pace.
If anyone's got some good training tips or recommendations let me know, or just wish me luck!
Don't just wing it but follow a training plan and don't skip your long runs.
On March 19 2015 10:15 EpidemicSC wrote: Lifelong jogger here, new to long distance running. Gonna be running the Rock n' Roll marathon in San Diego in May and trying for a sub-4 hour pace.
If anyone's got some good training tips or recommendations let me know, or just wish me luck!
Good luck! There are zillions of pages of advice for first-timers out there, so I'll just mention two things.
1 Do not do not do not do not do not get excited and go out too fast early in the race. The real test of the marathon does not start until 30k, and if you feel tired before then you are in for a long death march to the finish line. You'll be super excited by the race atmosphere and crowds, so you'll have to fight against that. The first half of the race should feel almost too easy, the middle 10k should be challenging but not overwhelming, and then the last 10k is where you spend what strength you've got and pass all those chumps who went out too fast.
2 If you can do it while still staying healthy, more mileage in training will generally lead to a more enjoyable race. I'm often surprised when I look at a beginner's marathon guide by how little running it contains. The best way to get better at running is to run!
2.9M uphill tempo. 7:46 pace, 4.2% average grade. Probably worth sub 7 effort, and it was very controlled. Definitely would have had no trouble doing another 15+ minutes at that clip. Nothing to light the world on fire with yet, but a nice start to my build for BB10K.
On March 22 2015 14:23 L_Master wrote: First workout (running) of 2015!
2.9M uphill tempo. 7:46 pace, 4.2% average grade. Probably worth sub 7 effort, and it was very controlled. Definitely would have had no trouble doing another 15+ minutes at that clip. Nothing to light the world on fire with yet, but a nice start to my build for BB10K.
Hopefully no nagging issues this time around.
That's so good to hear. Let's hope your streak of bad luck is finally over.
Had a 10k race today. 44:41, shitty time compared to my PR but the fucking Bronchitis really took its toll. My legs can run much faster it's just the lung which is lagging behind. The race was part of a cup so I didn't want to skip it.
Next race is in 5 weeks but I think I'll put my main focus onto a 10k two months from now.
I haven't participated here before, but I feel like it's good to get some group motivation and advice, and state goals out loud so to speak.
Half marathon is my distance, there's just something about it that I really enjoy. My PR is 01:25, and I ran a rather disappointing 01:27 last weekend. Just one of those days... I'm aiming for 1:20 or below by the end of September, which sounds ambitious but feels doable.
Does anyone have good tips for effective training inbetween races? I tend to leave a long time between events and train consistently hard in the meantime, but perhaps it's better to put in the groundwork and get pace up throughout the autumn/winter, then focus on maintaining fitness and racing during the spring/summer months. That way I'll get more of the events which I really love, with more variety and more shots at making the most of my current fitness. It's so easy to have a bad day and fall well short of what you're capable of, and more races would mitigate that too. How do the rest of you approach training/racing cycles?
On March 30 2015 20:46 ImbaTosS wrote: Hallo running people.
I haven't participated here before, but I feel like it's good to get some group motivation and advice, and state goals out loud so to speak.
Half marathon is my distance, there's just something about it that I really enjoy. My PR is 01:25, and I ran a rather disappointing 01:27 last weekend. Just one of those days... I'm aiming for 1:20 or below by the end of September, which sounds ambitious but feels doable.
Does anyone have good tips for effective training inbetween races? I tend to leave a long time between events and train consistently hard in the meantime, but perhaps it's better to put in the groundwork and get pace up throughout the autumn/winter, then focus on maintaining fitness and racing during the spring/summer months. That way I'll get more of the events which I really love, with more variety and more shots at making the most of my current fitness. It's so easy to have a bad day and fall well short of what you're capable of, and more races would mitigate that too. How do the rest of you approach training/racing cycles?
So it turns out Elegant is a runner. Nice!
Probably the most common way of dividing a year up is to have two, maybe three, major "peaks". Generally these coincide with either a goal race if you're a marathoner on up, or a particular season (i.e. outdoor track, XC) if you're a 10k guy and below. Half marathon falls in between, so you probably could trend a little either way.
My personal preference would be to have one season, probably fall, be focused on a goal HM race. Spring would then be focused on racing 5k/10k. This is good because it lets you stay in touch with speed and intensity during the spring, which then serves as an excellent springboard to running a good HM in the fall. HM has short enough recovery time that you could probably even have two goal HM about a month apart in the fall.
Right after spring season ends, which is probably very late spring or early summer its common to take 1-2 weeks completely off, then 1-2 weeks where you only exercise "for fun" when the mood strikes you. Same applies to after fall season. Nearly every elite runner does this, though one is usually a more major 2-3 week break, and the other a shorter break. After that, the general gameplan tends to be building up mileage a little bit, throwing in tempos/fartleks, probably a weekly/bi monthly repeat session (but with longer recoveries such that they are not super hard, just promoting staying in touch with faster paces/harder running), and some speed development work (i.e. weekly session of various things such as 6-8s hill sprints, flying 60s, acceleration 150s, etc).
All of this generally builds a really strong fitness base, and with the inclusion of speed stuff prepares you for the more intense training to come in spring/fall while also improving general form and efficiency with the speed development. Then starting 3-5 months out from the target of the season the real training begins, which would be your 5k/10k/HM specific training build.
It's been a while since I've posted here, but this Spring has been pretty good to me so far/at the same time very busy! Good to see all your workouts/runs on Strava, esp. Bonham & his half marathon build. Good luck!
Running with a group is amazing, when I get time. I'm really pushing through some distance/grade boundaries with the help of RMR, and getting back into pretty darn good shape. 800 workouts hurt, and hill climbs are brutal, but I'm feeling good while adding miles up to an acceptable level. Yea, Springtime without injuries (knock on wood, so far!). I've had a bit of PF, IT tightness, but just massage, stretching, strength work have all kept it in check.
Last, but not least, I saw one of my favorite running shirts on sale in a very nice blue, recently. Anyone still interested in a "TL Offline Activities" running shirt? http://bit.ly/1NEueAp The idea would be to order quite a few, pick them up in person in Denver, and have a local guy print them. I don't know what the printing setup fee would be, yet, but I'm betting I could get these down to the $25-$30/per (printed & shipped to USA addresses, a bit extra for international).
I just found out I got seeded into the elite/first corral for the Cherry Blossom 10 miler LOL....I guess my estimated finishing time of 1:15 was right on the edge of the first and second corrals.
Running in the footsteps of elites is gonna be awesome. The course is nice too I'll see em on the other side of the road at a few points.
Dieting like crazy to keep the weight down too, still got a couple pounds to drop. I've had a solid past few weeks though so I think I'll hit this race in pretty solid shape.
On April 01 2015 13:07 LuckyFool wrote: I just found out I got seeded into the elite/first corral for the Cherry Blossom 10 miler LOL....I guess my estimated finishing time of 1:15 was right on the edge of the first and second corrals.
Running in the footsteps of elites is gonna be awesome. The course is nice too I'll see em on the other side of the road at a few points.
Dieting like crazy to keep the weight down too, still got a couple pounds to drop. I've had a solid past few weeks though so I think I'll hit this race in pretty solid shape.
Nice! Just realize these races tend to go out SCREAMING fast, I'd really recommend trying to be pretty much off the back at the start or you're going to open with a quarter well under 75.
I haven't heard to much on the LF front, is this a goal race for you, or just a race in part of your build? Also, any goal time in mind?
As for the dieting, nothing wrong with it as long as "crazy" doesn't mean you're trying to lose 3lbs a week or something. Keep it reasonable and start making sure you have normal calorie balance at least 2-3 days out from your race.
good luck to people running races that pop up in april!
i've had a super solid 2 week period and fairly good 4 weeks looking back further, though haven't done any distance work. Of course I haven't done true long runs in my various on and off phases over the years since 2009 (only real "on" phase in 2014), pretty much just 4-6 mile tempo runs or some intervals are my go-to.
But I should do a 5k on april 18th, pretty excited for it. No idea who will show up-- my immediate area seems a bit wonky in race results. Not many 5k or 10k events per year and it seems folks are more into run+bike races and longer distance (a couple 34:00-36:00 10k runners but like a 17:30 5k would probably win the 5k, with <10 people sub 19:00)
I think I can get 18:50.
edit- the 5k on april 18th is different than I thought; a better race is an 8k on may 2 I think. gives me an excuse to show up to my local running club too since they are doing an 8k time trial the week before that. My race options really are pretty limited unless I start just making some drives to show up for half marathons and such.
Had probably the best running experience of my life yesterday running the cherry blossom 10 miler. The race course had to be shortened due to a serious accident and police investigation right before they closed roads for the event. So it went from being a ten mile event to 9.5. That kind of screwed with the possibility of me setting a new 10 mile PR, but I nailed my race pace anyway. Ran at a 7/mile average and finished 9.5 miles in 1:07:09. This is huge impovement from where I was at this time last year, I ran a 10 miler last year in just over 1:20:00.
Kicking for the finish line, a rare running pic I'm actually somewhat happy with: + Show Spoiler +
Utterly perfect conditions for running, flat course, no wind, temps in the low 40's, and for the first time in 8 years apparently the race coincided with the peak cherry blossom bloom. So the scenery was gorgeous. It's no surprise people travel from all over the country to run this race, if any of you guys are ever interested in running in DC, I HIGHLY recommend this event. Happens every year during the last weekend of the cherry blossom festival.
Man I wish every run and event was as epic as that. I was sore today, could really feel it in the legs but it was the good kind of sore.
Next up a 5K in two weeks, can't wait to shoot for sub 20:00 for the first time in my life, I'm starting to peak at a good time. The weird thing is I'm not even running huge mileage right now like 20-25mpw...diet has been making worlds of difference, been going with a mainly vegetarian diet with very little processed foods, lots of fruits, eggs, salads and some fish. Excited to see what's on the horizon when I bump my mileage back up to 40-45. Just need to find a way to stay disciplined with the diet, racing often helps keep the motivation up, but it's a tough trade off, need to recover properly too.
Oh, man, congrats LuckyFool! I had friends from Colorado also running Cherry Blossom, 'was confused about the 9.5 mile distance. They've done it two years in a row, now, always enjoyed (like you did). Rest up, good luck on the 5K. 400m repeats do wonders for that distance, if you need something to do this weekend.
Great year so far for running, I think most of us can agree? I did an impromptu 5:07 mile yesterday, feeling good (feet and Achilles are 80%+ at all times) while adding on the miles.
On April 15 2015 00:34 mtmentat wrote: Oh, man, congrats LuckyFool! I had friends from Colorado also running Cherry Blossom, 'was confused about the 9.5 mile distance. They've done it two years in a row, now, always enjoyed (like you did). Rest up, good luck on the 5K. 400m repeats do wonders for that distance, if you need something to do this weekend.
LuckyFool nailed it. Great effort.
Great year so far for running, I think most of us can agree? I did an impromptu 5:07 mile yesterday, feeling good (feet and Achilles are 80%+ at all times) while adding on the miles.
It's good to read mostly good stuff for once.
My own running is a little up and down atm. I'm nailing the interval/fartlek workouts and having fun with it but failing the tempo runs. I feel that my threshold pace is about 10 sec/km slower than what it should be compared to past performances and my other workouts. Maybe I should only have tempo runs after complete rest days. I'm not really concerned about the effect on my performance but how it will effect my will to push myself on race day. Tempo runs are usually good training for my willpower and I often recall these tempo runs when it gets tough in the last 3rd of a race. Fumbling the tempo runs might make it harder to push through the moments when I want to quit a race. Anyways. Next 10k is only two weeks away. Gonna try for a new PR. I'm also proud to report that my first black toenail of 2015 is a work almost done. @n.genuity: good luck with your 8k. Odd distance though.
congrats luckyfool! I'm sure you'll small sub-20 5k. Wear short runnings shorts and you'll get sub 19; short shorts are guaranteed to get a PR
yeah 8k is odd because the real motivation is it's a "cinco de mayo" run (5 mile) but for some reason they bothered to measure it out to 8k as if it was a college race or something (4.97 miles) instead of just doing 5 mile. Don't know how I'll do, I'm really sticking with like ~4.55 (7.32km) mile runs as my staple but I am hitting them in the 30:30 - 31:45 range, depending on the day. Basically just kept a similar pace from a month ago but increasing the distance.
re food: Hearing that really is good, I'm trying to eat more health. Since I'm a nerd and see runners hype them up online I've been trying out a whole bunch of like "oat pancakes!" or literally last night I made a greek yogurt oat banana bread. In the lamest way possible I even copied ryan hall's pancakes lol. The dude does nothing but talk about eating pancakes it seems.
Don't know how I'll do, I'm really sticking with like ~4.55 (7.32km) mile runs as my staple but I am hitting them in the 30:30 - 31:45 range, depending on the day. Basically just kept a similar pace from a month ago but increasing the distance.
That's a pretty atypical way of training, unless you're in like 16:00 shape. Otherwise that's pretty dang fast for regular mileage.
I'm sorry I've been absent from the thread, team--stuff's been happening. I'm going to catch up on my reading and post an update on my training sometime tomorrow. I'm super glad to see that this is still alive, and that L-Master seem to have returned to health!
On April 17 2015 12:49 N.geNuity wrote: Don't know how I'll do, I'm really sticking with like ~4.55 (7.32km) mile runs as my staple but I am hitting them in the 30:30 - 31:45 range, depending on the day. Basically just kept a similar pace from a month ago but increasing the distance.
FWIW, I'm reasonably confident I could clock around 15:30 on the track for 5k right now, and my PB is 16 flat. I run about 30s/km slower than you do on easy runs, and slower if I'm feeling sore from a workout.
I don't know what your training history is like, and you've gotta do what you've gotta do, but most runners break each week of training into a few different kinds of run. So if you run five times a week, you might do three easy runs, one run with some intervals, and one longer run. (I stress this is just an example.) Running the same pace and distance all the time teaches the body to run that pace for that distance and that's about it.
On April 18 2015 15:53 N.geNuity wrote: yea i know that is not any sort of quality training. I basically just get back from work and say I'll go do a 30 minute run.
Hey, if it's what you enjoy and sounds best that's really what counts. And it's not like you have bad results with it either.
I think it's just the natural tendency for us runners to go "but you could be doing X,Y,Z". In terms of running faster, you likely would be better of breaking up those 30 minute guys, just doing 5:00/km 2-3 days a week, then one day maybe a steady 4:00/km, and then another day alternating some running at 3:40/km with some 5:30/km.
Starting to get a few workouts under my belt now for BB, 3M progression averaging around 6:10, 4M tempo in 26:10, and then 5x1k yesterday w/2min jog, 5:57 avg (3:56, 3:51, 3:43, 3:35, 3:28).
If I had to guess I'd say around 19:00 5k shape on a pancake course. Short build, but my structure is probably going to be some variation of 1k/Mile repeats centered around 10k effort once a week and then another workout that is either a tempo or a mile/5k pace workout.
Diet still gives me trouble. I was on a good roll from January into April, but had a little bit of candy on Easter and...booom. Insanity was back, eating like crazy and put on about 5lbs in a couple weeks. Still down from where I was in January and back to eating good, but obviously a ways from where I would like to be.
Thinking goal for BB is going to be 39:xx, but I'll have to see how the workouts go. I've obviously been cycling a bunch, but I'm still in low 19s shape off of about 10mpw of running. Should be fun!
I'm super glad to see that this is still alive, and that L-Master seem to have returned to health!
To be honest, I never really felt injured, I just had some nagging stuff in January/Feb that was enough to make me not feel comfortable going after workouts. Then it got late enough that I didn't have time for a cycle for the key spring races, so I just focused on cycling for the time being since there were a couple good cycling races in that time frame.
People have any thoughts on the boston field? American-wise I guess most eyes are on Dathan Ritzenhein (well everyone will be on meb). As a side note, delved into the letsrun forums about a variety of topics, and damn there is some mighty fine trolling going on there, or just general toxicity.
in my own running I got wrecked by deciding to go ahead and do my company's blood drive this cycle (it's every 10 weeks or so). I've done blood drives before in my working life/university but generally kind of around periods where I just took a week off or something from my 2-3 times a week light jogs. Not when I had a consistent (albeit still not optimized in any sense) progress, at least in terms of setting up a bit of a routine in my daily scheduling.
On April 20 2015 03:24 N.geNuity wrote: People have any thoughts on the boston field? American-wise I guess most eyes are on Dathan Ritzenhein (well everyone will be on meb). As a side note, delved into the letsrun forums about a variety of topics, and damn there is some mighty fine trolling going on there, or just general toxicity.
in my own running I got wrecked by deciding to go ahead and do my company's blood drive this cycle (it's every 10 weeks or so). I've done blood drives before in my working life/university but generally kind of around periods where I just took a week off or something from my 2-3 times a week light jogs. Not when I had a consistent (albeit still not optimized in any sense) progress, at least in terms of setting up a bit of a routine in my daily scheduling.
Yea a blood drive can do that. I've heard it's not so bad for easy runs, but really can mess you up with workouts and recovery. Never experienced it myself.
As for Boston; I don't think an American will win, outside of an outside shot of Shalane winning. Definitely no American winner on the mens side.
If I was going to pick I'd say Desisa and Deba, though I wish I knew more about Deba's DNF in NYC half. The men's side is tricky because Makau is a bit of a darkhorse. If he shows in a great shape he could definitely be a contender.
For American's I'll predict Meb, Dathan, Arciniaga in that order. For women I'll go with Shalane, Linden, Hastings.
If I'm supposed to be running my training runs at "easy" pace, how will I know whether I'm capable of actually running my race pace?
For context, I'm shooting for 2hours at my first half marathon on May 16. My long runs are currently around 10:30 to 11:30 min per mile -- sometimes they are truly ridiculously easy, and other times my feet feel like lead and I can barely make it. I'm just worried I have one of those terrible days on race day, and then there's no way I can somehow ratchet up a gear and do race pace.
On April 21 2015 03:59 GrandInquisitor wrote: If I'm supposed to be running my training runs at "easy" pace, how will I know whether I'm capable of actually running my race pace?
For context, I'm shooting for 2hours at my first half marathon on May 16. My long runs are currently around 10:30 to 11:30 min per mile -- sometimes they are truly ridiculously easy, and other times my feet feel like lead and I can barely make it. I'm just worried I have one of those terrible days on race day, and then there's no way I can somehow ratchet up a gear and do race pace.
First, it's worth nothing if that if you're in the neighborhood of 2:00 shape (25:30 5k/53:00 10k) and are out running 11:00 pace you absolutely can pick it up. If you can't there are only a few possibilities: 1) you've got your fitness heavily overestimated, 2) something is really messed up with your fueling/sleep/energy. Most likely it's neither of those and even though it seems like you can't you'd be surprised what would happen if you started running 9:30 pace.
Worth noting all of your runs ideally aren't' supposed to be at an easy pace. There should be days where you're training much faster, for instance you might have a day where you do 2x3M in 27 min each. Or a 6xMile workout run at 8:30-8:40 per mile, etc.
Easy days can sometimes feel "not that easy" as well in the middle of a training cycle, especially coming off of workouts. As you freshen up and lower the mileage a bit the week before the race that feeling will go away. Just the adrenaline enough of race day alone is enough to ensure that doesn't happen.
Bottom line is that if you're training consistently and are in the neighborhood of 2:00 half marathon shape there is no way 2:20 pace is going to be a struggle on race day.
Thanks. I thought that your training runs were supposed to be a minute to two minutes behind your race pace? So as a result I run most of my training days at the can-talk-but-not-sing pace, which on some days is 10:00, and on other days is 11:30. You might be right that it's more of a mental issue than a physical one. But now I'm rethinking my approach of "easy running"...I haven't integrated any speed work and have been doing Hal Higdon Novice 2.
You have the correct approach to easy pace. Don't change that. Your plan has "pace runs" in it which are your workouts. HM pace is approximately threshold pace so it's a quality workout. Recent race results at other distances are good ways to get a good guess at your possible HM time. That's one of the reasons Hal Higdon added the test race over 5k and 10k. In my experience this calculator is spot on: http://mcmillanrunning.com/
On April 21 2015 22:52 GrandInquisitor wrote: Thanks. I thought that your training runs were supposed to be a minute to two minutes behind your race pace? So as a result I run most of my training days at the can-talk-but-not-sing pace, which on some days is 10:00, and on other days is 11:30. You might be right that it's more of a mental issue than a physical one. But now I'm rethinking my approach of "easy running"...I haven't integrated any speed work and have been doing Hal Higdon Novice 2.
General rule of thumb is easy runs should be about 30-45% slower than 5k race pace. 30% is definitely on the quicker side of easy, and 45% should be getting towards that super easy recovery territory. Which is more or less in line with what you wrote.
One thing to note is that easy run pace should stem from current fitness, not goal fitness. If one sets an ambitious goal race pace and then sets easy paces based on that those easy runs could be quite salty.
I'll be honest though and say I'm not a fan of that schedule if you're looking to be well prepared for a half. I see it as being good for two people: those that are brand new to running and have some burning desire to complete a half OR those that want to be able to survive a half with as near minimal effort as possible.
The biggest week in the schedule tops out at 23 miles, with most in the teens, and the mileage hardly increases over the program. That's low mileage for running a mile race, let alone a half marathon. The lack of workouts is one thing, especially for a newer running trying to balance building global volume with getting in solid workouts, but that's almost so low as to not be training. There are only 4 weeks left so no need to go crazy, but my personal recommendation would be something like this in the 4 weeks leading up to the race:
With that training schedule in mind, have you felt crappy/weak/heavy legs on your long runs, or have you felt terrible on the 3-5 mile runs as well? My guess is that it's more on the long runs, but let me know.
Terrible on the long runs. Once in a while I have a bad short run if I haven't eaten well beforehand / didn't sleep, but I don't think much of those.
I have a 10 mile race the first weekend of May. I was going to treat it like a standard training run, but perhaps I should tryhard there and see if I am anywhere near the goal pace per McMillan's calculator to realistically hit a 2hr half? It may be, like you pointed out, that I'm just way overestimating my fitness. The calculator says 90 minutes for 10 miles is the goal if I want to do a 2hr half.
On April 22 2015 03:30 GrandInquisitor wrote: Terrible on the long runs. Once in a while I have a bad short run if I haven't eaten well beforehand / didn't sleep, but I don't think much of those.
I have a 10 mile race the first weekend of May. I was going to treat it like a standard training run, but perhaps I should tryhard there and see if I am anywhere near the goal pace per McMillan's calculator to realistically hit a 2hr half? It may be, like you pointed out, that I'm just way overestimating my fitness. The calculator says 90 minutes for 10 miles is the goal if I want to do a 2hr half.
Thanks guys.
4 weeks out from the race it wouldn't hurt to find a 5k/10k local race either this week or next and see what you can do. Come back and we can help with setting a realistic goal pace. Worst case scenario is you go out a bit conservative, feel strong at mile 8-10, and let it rip the last 5k ending feeling strong. Much better than going out harder than you're prepared for a having a crappy death march in for the last 5 miles.
As for the bolded section, I now understand what's going on and that sounds like what I would expect. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the first few miles tend to feel fine, but then by mile 5 or 6 it really starts to feel not so great. That's why I dislike that particular training plan, and is generally what happens when you try to run 50, 60, 70% of the weekly mileage in one long run. It's just way too much mileage in a single run. Even for marathon training a long run of 30% of weekly mileage is considered a pretty darn big run. Over 50% is massive.
Long runs are nice if you have the global volume to support them, but I'd argue that even for a marathon they aren't that important. 40-50 miles a week with a 10 mile long run beats the heck out of 30 miles a week with a 15 mile long run any day of the week.
All that said, I don't want to scare you either. You're not going to struggle to finish the race or anything provided you go out at a reasonable tempo. You'll be tired at the end...but who isn't after a half marathon.
Welp, just did my 5 mile run at 9:30, and felt amazingly fine. Like I could go on forever. My wife suggests that it might have just been some extenuating circumstances on the longer runs.
Happy with my running clubs time trial for "8" km. It turned out to be 5.4 +/- .03 miles (was fun as everyone finishing all going 'how was it?' 'Long!'). Like 12 people maybe.
Not race conditions on very soft gravel digging in pretty deep, had a 37:08ish which i believe backtracks to a 34:10 on the actual 8k
Depends on how this week goes because previously was thinking i can dip hit 33:00 for 8k race on the (pretty flat) road without much problem. Truth is the times i post in this thread i pretty much "race" my runs way too much
London is today. The field of runners at both the female and male side is just bonkers. Stream
Mary Keitany, Florence Kiplagat, Edna Kiplagat, Priscah Jeptoo, Tirfi Tsegaye and Paula saying good bye to the running world. I hope the race won't get buried by focusing on the men's race too much. Wilson Kipsang vs Dennis Kimetto will be sooo good. I'm cheering for Wilson but expect Kimetto to win it. The slight underdogs Geoffrey and Emmanuel Mutai, Stanley Biwott and Eliud Kipchoge aren't too shaby either.
I understand some of us are racing today? Good luck to you. I caught another cold btw. Nothing serious but enough to shut down running.
Surprised Kimetto didn't make it a little further, but without Kipsang making a huge surge I had a feeling Kipchoge was going to get the win combining his track pedigree with how fluid his stride still looked. I don't think Kipsang really broke, but he just didn't have the kind of wheels needed to go with Kipchoge's 62s 400m from 600m to 200m to go.
On April 18 2015 15:04 Bonham wrote: I'm sorry I've been absent from the thread, team--stuff's been happening. I'm going to catch up on my reading and post an update on my training sometime tomorrow.
Turns out I meant that I was going to bake some bread and play a bunch of Shadow of Mordor. But now I'm here to make up for lost time!
Sweet moves in the Cherry Blossom race, Lucky Fool. Between you and me, ten miles is a weird distance to race anyway, so don't worry too much about the distance changing. How goes the build for the 5k?
On April 01 2015 02:25 mtmentat wrote: Hello again, all!
It's been a while since I've posted here, but this Spring has been pretty good to me so far/at the same time very busy! Good to see all your workouts/runs on Strava, esp. Bonham & his half marathon build. Good luck!
Running with a group is amazing, when I get time. I'm really pushing through some distance/grade boundaries with the help of RMR, and getting back into pretty darn good shape. 800 workouts hurt, and hill climbs are brutal, but I'm feeling good while adding miles up to an acceptable level. Yea, Springtime without injuries (knock on wood, so far!). I've had a bit of PF, IT tightness, but just massage, stretching, strength work have all kept it in check.
Ha, totally feel you on the running with a group thing. It's almost like a PED in itself. I've also been dealing with PF! Maybe we are running twins?
On April 17 2015 06:20 Don_Julio wrote: My own running is a little up and down atm. I'm nailing the interval/fartlek workouts and having fun with it but failing the tempo runs. I feel that my threshold pace is about 10 sec/km slower than what it should be compared to past performances and my other workouts. Maybe I should only have tempo runs after complete rest days. I'm not really concerned about the effect on my performance but how it will effect my will to push myself on race day. Tempo runs are usually good training for my willpower and I often recall these tempo runs when it gets tough in the last 3rd of a race. Fumbling the tempo runs might make it harder to push through the moments when I want to quit a race.
The general attitude I strive for when aiming for a tough goal is to be ambitious and hopeful in equal measure. Doing hard workouts, sometimes after other hard workouts, is a great way to get stronger. But if you're chasing a tough time, you've gotta keep in mind that the workouts that will get you to that time are also going to be pretty tough, and you might not nail all of them. Last summer, I remember stressing so much about my tempo pace and how it was often slower than what my training guide said it ought to be. But when my half marathon--basically the biggest LT test there is--rolled around, I surprised myself with my own strength.
Struggling with workouts is part of getting faster. Don't worry if it doesn't always feel awesome.
On April 20 2015 04:16 L_Master wrote: Yea a blood drive can do that. I've heard it's not so bad for easy runs, but really can mess you up with workouts and recovery. Never experienced it myself.
You've heard the truth, my friend. I've donated about 35 times. Once I tried to do mile repeats the day after and learned really quickly that this is a stupid idea. But I've actually done an easy run home from the donor clinic, stopped to drink a beer on the way (long story) and got home fine.
On April 27 2015 09:16 L_Master wrote: London delivered big time. That was an awesome race.
Indeed! I thought Kipsang was going to eventually win it. I'm a firm believer that sprints at the end of halfs and fulls are not about who is faster--they are about who has the most left. But, holy moly, to throw that 400 in that close to the end.... you've gotta have some serious wheels, such as a former 5k world champ might have, do pull that out. Absolutely electrifying.
As for my own training, things have changed a bit since I last posted here. I'm running the Vancouver half marathon next Sunday, and three months ago I thought I might do it in 1:11. Since then I've had some pretty serious problems with PF, plus a week in Nicaragua with nothing but four easy runs. When I returned from vacation and ran a few workouts, I realized my goal wasn't realistic.
So I've adjusted a bit. I've figured out how to treat my PF while training, I think, which is a tremendous relief. I was contemplating spending the whole summer in the pool and otherwise crosstraining because of it, and now it looks like I won't have to. 100 MPW awaits!
Anyway, I'm now looking to basically run Vancouver by feel. After joining my club in January, I'm definitely more fit than I usually am in May, but whether that beats me in August of last year remains to be seen. The plan is to go out at 1:13 pace for the first 5 or 10k and then assess whether I want to push for 1:12 or just try and finish under 1:15. It should be a fast field and a fast course, so I think it will be fun either way.
Had a strange 10k race today. I wanted to PR (previous one was 42:10) but this spring was peppered with minor infections which caused me to have occasional breaks from running and left me uncertain about my current fitness. The race went well overall and I ran at a consistent pace. I missed a couple of km-signs but my GPS had me at a 4:10-4:15 pace for the first half. There were half a dozen runners about 50m in front of me for the whole time and I maintained that distance for the second half of the race so I thought I was fine pace-wise. These runners took a wrong turn at a terribly marked intersections at about 7,5km and I followed mindlessley but noticed after just a few seconds, turned around and tried to inform them about their detour. The whole thing cost me my momentum and about 10s. I now had nobody in front of me and it was almost like I was the leading runner. I felt really well for the last 2km and ran the last 1000m really fast. Four of the six who were in front of me until their detour are competition in my running cup. I'll beat them on even ground next time. Finished with 42:02 on my watch. The GPS had me at only 9,86 km but the course is officially measured as a 10k. I would have run sub 42 without the detour and two highway overpasses 1000m from start and finish. I also think that I could have run a low 41 if I had more balls and confidence. The fitness level is there. Next and last 10k before marathon training is in five weeks. Sub 41 might be possible if I stay healthy and nail my tempo runs this time as a confidence boost.
Have a triathlon sprint race in 2 days, however I've been plagued with knee injuries since mid january so the only running workouts I did were two 4km runs the last couple of days. Only started swimming 3 weeks ago so I'm not really in a good shape but still feel alright swimming. On the plus side the knee injuries didn't stop me from training cycling which I feel is a lot better now compared to the start of the year.
If everything goes alright I hope to do a 11min swim (750m), 32min cycling (19km) and hopefully 21-22min run (5km) which would make it 1h:05min at the finish, maybe a bit more depending on the transition's time. Have very little racing experience so these values may be a bit off, but those are what I'm aiming at anyways.
So yea had a 5 mile run (8 km). Pretty sure it was measured to 5 miles (out & back, they just duplicated mile markers so the 1 mile was the 4 mile marker as well). Still don't really know my true fitness level, since my heart/desire would really want to go for 5k races and I got really tired in this early at a pace I'd hope to break for a 5k (see below).
BUT positive results! 32:49 chip, which mentally I was shooting for that sub-33:00. I don't think I could have improved it too much if I did better mentally, maybe 32:35.
I mismanaged it a bit (as I generally do with races) but I corrected myself to a stable pace, which is something I usually don't do (either die with positive splits or in longer than 5k races have had negative splits by being cautious in the first miles). 6:15 first mile split (foolish) and had rough 2-3 mile to slow to ~19:40 3 mile split (6:33 average after a 6:15 start), but then did the last 2 miles correctly at what I should have done the whole time (13:10 so 6:35 pace). Partly the very first half mile had people running way too hard, they all died in the race.
Race itself was a small local race but it was nice; I think nearly every runner was running "alone" unless they specifically ran with someone pace-wise. Like 20 second time windows between people (and by far most people were somewhere like 38-45 minutes). No actually fast people. The race was actually won by like a 14 year old.
On May 02 2015 02:09 Gjhc wrote: Have a triathlon sprint race in 2 days, however I've been plagued with knee injuries since mid january so the only running workouts I did were two 4km runs the last couple of days. Only started swimming 3 weeks ago so I'm not really in a good shape but still feel alright swimming. On the plus side the knee injuries didn't stop me from training cycling which I feel is a lot better now compared to the start of the year.
If everything goes alright I hope to do a 11min swim (750m), 32min cycling (19km) and hopefully 21-22min run (5km) which would make it 1h:05min at the finish, maybe a bit more depending on the transition's time. Have very little racing experience so these values may be a bit off, but those are what I'm aiming at anyways.
Your first triathlon? Good luck, enjoy youself and don't drown.
On May 03 2015 07:42 N.geNuity wrote: So yea had a 5 mile run (8 km). Pretty sure it was measured to 5 miles (out & back, they just duplicated mile markers so the 1 mile was the 4 mile marker as well). Still don't really know my true fitness level, since my heart/desire would really want to go for 5k races and I got really tired in this early at a pace I'd hope to break for a 5k (see below).
BUT positive results! 32:49 chip, which mentally I was shooting for that sub-33:00. I don't think I could have improved it too much if I did better mentally, maybe 32:35.
I mismanaged it a bit (as I generally do with races) but I corrected myself to a stable pace, which is something I usually don't do (either die with positive splits or in longer than 5k races have had negative splits by being cautious in the first miles). 6:15 first mile split (foolish) and had rough 2-3 mile to slow to ~19:40 3 mile split (6:33 average after a 6:15 start), but then did the last 2 miles correctly at what I should have done the whole time (13:10 so 6:35 pace). Partly the very first half mile had people running way too hard, they all died in the race.
Race itself was a small local race but it was nice; I think nearly every runner was running "alone" unless they specifically ran with someone pace-wise. Like 20 second time windows between people (and by far most people were somewhere like 38-45 minutes). No actually fast people. The race was actually won by like a 14 year old.
I guess pacing yourself is hard at such an uncommon distance. Congrats on meeting your goal time. Do you have a 5k goal race coming up anytime soon?
On April 27 2015 11:35 Bonham wrote: Anyway, I'm now looking to basically run Vancouver by feel. After joining my club in January, I'm definitely more fit than I usually am in May, but whether that beats me in August of last year remains to be seen. The plan is to go out at 1:13 pace for the first 5 or 10k and then assess whether I want to push for 1:12 or just try and finish under 1:15. It should be a fast field and a fast course, so I think it will be fun either way.
Did the Broad Street Run today. It's a very nice very straight 10 mile race. I'm slightly worried that my 2-hour half marathon goal is tantalizingly out of reach; I finished with a 9:13 pace, just off the 9:00 that McMillan says I need. I am beginning to think that the weather on my half will play a significant role in whether I reach my goal.
Hey everyone, quick history of fitness before I ask my questions. I have done two half marathons in the past. In 2012, I did the Disney Half and 2013, Long Beach CA Half-Marathon. At the Disney run, I sprained my ankle on the last mile and for the Long Beach, I got bored half way through due to just staring at the beach. Don't get me wrong, running at the beach is good but that day, I was just not feeling the scenery. I decided to save up and buy a bike in 2014 and now its 2015 and I currently own a single speed free wheel bike. I go on a nightly bike ride with my friends every Thursday, we typically ride 20-30 miles with some inclines. They have all been biking much longer than I have, so I feel like I need to catch up.
Now to my question, I want to ride around and get used to riding in the streets, but lack confidence. Other than just going out, riding around, anything I can do to muster up the courage to train? Also, any tips for climbing? Its probably my weakest out of sprints and long distance flats.
On May 04 2015 12:04 GrandInquisitor wrote: Did the Broad Street Run today. It's a very nice very straight 10 mile race. I'm slightly worried that my 2-hour half marathon goal is tantalizingly out of reach; I finished with a 9:13 pace, just off the 9:00 that McMillan says I need. I am beginning to think that the weather on my half will play a significant role in whether I reach my goal.
That's not bad at all, would have been nice to hit 9:00 but its not bad especially since it doesn't sound like you have raced a ton before this.
How did you feel at the end, totally drained, or did you have the sense you could have kept going longer? Also, any idea on the mile by mile splits, that can tell you alot.
On May 04 2015 16:14 climax wrote: Hey everyone, quick history of fitness before I ask my questions. I have done two half marathons in the past. In 2012, I did the Disney Half and 2013, Long Beach CA Half-Marathon. At the Disney run, I sprained my ankle on the last mile and for the Long Beach, I got bored half way through due to just staring at the beach. Don't get me wrong, running at the beach is good but that day, I was just not feeling the scenery. I decided to save up and buy a bike in 2014 and now its 2015 and I currently own a single speed free wheel bike. I go on a nightly bike ride with my friends every Thursday, we typically ride 20-30 miles with some inclines. They have all been biking much longer than I have, so I feel like I need to catch up.
Now to my question, I want to ride around and get used to riding in the streets, but lack confidence. Other than just going out, riding around, anything I can do to muster up the courage to train? Also, any tips for climbing? Its probably my weakest out of sprints and long distance flats.
Single speed makes things interesting, but as long as you don't have any really steep, sustained pitches of 8-10%+ there probably isn't anything you wouldn't be able to get up. Any idea what the gear ratio is?
As for your question, I'm not sure what it is you're afraid of...especially since you already ride with your friends regularly. Are you not comfortable with your own riding, i.e. worried you'll crash...or are you skittish around cars?
If it's the former, go to a parking lot somewhere and work skills. Practice cornering, riding at 1-2mph in as straight of a line possible, looking back while riding, riding one handed, riding no handed, etc. If you can get your friends to come along you can add in some contact stuff too, i.e. bumping shoulders etc. If you have a mountain bike as well, working in mountain biking on occasions is an excellent way to improve your bike handling, any road cyclist I can think of know to be a great descender or bike handler has a strong MTB (mountain bike) background.
In the case of the latter, there isn't much you can do. Just gotta realize that it's very, very rare for a car to hit you. The only way anything can really happen without you being at fault is if a car drifts into you from behind and that's very, very rare. Pretty much any other accident is avoidable if you ride in control and don't take silly risks. That said, being skittish around cars is a problem, because it makes you more likely to get nervous or twitchy, which impairs control and judgement.
The only way you really improve confidence around vehicles is by riding around vehicles. Start with short routes on residential streets at off times of the day. This way there will be very minimal traffic traveling at low speeds. As you get comfortable with the idea of the occasional vehicle around you start venturing out onto streets that might be a little busier, and once that is comfortable feel free to start navigating intersections with traffic lights and such.
On May 04 2015 12:04 GrandInquisitor wrote: Did the Broad Street Run today. It's a very nice very straight 10 mile race. I'm slightly worried that my 2-hour half marathon goal is tantalizingly out of reach; I finished with a 9:13 pace, just off the 9:00 that McMillan says I need. I am beginning to think that the weather on my half will play a significant role in whether I reach my goal.
Congrats. Generally speaking the heat/heat index affects performance and more adversely exponentially the slower you run.
Bought new shoes in a runners shop a few weeks ago, asics gt-2000 3, pretty sure they are causing knee pain. I didn't have sore knees before, but now they are weak and sensitive after a run. So I'm having my doubts about that over pronating correction and soft bedding.
On May 10 2015 20:15 Meat wrote: Bought new shoes in a runners shop a few weeks ago, asics gt-2000 3, pretty sure they are causing knee pain. I didn't have sore knees before, but now they are weak and sensitive after a run. So I'm having my doubts about that over pronating correction and soft bedding.
Did you increase distance or pace recently? What shoes did you wear before?
On May 10 2015 20:15 Meat wrote: Bought new shoes in a runners shop a few weeks ago, asics gt-2000 3, pretty sure they are causing knee pain. I didn't have sore knees before, but now they are weak and sensitive after a run. So I'm having my doubts about that over pronating correction and soft bedding.
Did you increase distance or pace recently? What shoes did you wear before?
Nop, didn't increase or speed up (as I was planning). I had extremely worn out Asics Gel-Pressa's, that didn't have much (read: none on most places) profile left. From what I understand they had some correction already. They look actually like these:
My new ones are really big though, my regular shoe size (and so were my old asics) is 45 EU size, and I got 47 now. With my old shoes I had a really bad blister problem, the front of my toes were all covered with blisters after a few miles and so was the bottom of my feet in the 'comb'. That problem is pretty much gone now. Guy in the runners store checked my feet and advised me this size.
On April 27 2015 11:35 Bonham wrote: Anyway, I'm now looking to basically run Vancouver by feel. After joining my club in January, I'm definitely more fit than I usually am in May, but whether that beats me in August of last year remains to be seen. The plan is to go out at 1:13 pace for the first 5 or 10k and then assess whether I want to push for 1:12 or just try and finish under 1:15. It should be a fast field and a fast course, so I think it will be fun either way.
Seems like you nailed it. Race report pls.
Ah! I was in Vancouver all of last week with no Internet access outside of work. A quick recap:
Zillions of people using portapotty at start. More than any race I've run I think.
They start the elites off, then one minute later we hit it! First 5k is fairly downhill. Trying to modulate effort--I know I should be faster than goal pace here, but not too much faster. Want to go as easy on legs as possible. I feel like 1:12-low is on the table.
Overhear group of guys just in front of me say they're aiming for 1:14. Pass them, then it's me, another white dude, and what looks like a Japanese club runner at the front. Suddenly, this older looking guy comes screaming down the hill and passes us. I thought he was an elite who was in the bathroom or something and was trying to close the gap and place. About 2k later, we pass him and I never see him again. Never figured out what his deal was.
As we finish the downhill and go up the first little hill onto the Cambie Street bridge, it's just me and the Japanese guy. I'm settling in and thinking about racing this dude. Then he slides around behind me, and I think "are you seriously going to ride me the whole race and then try to out-kick me?" Then he just drops off. I think he wound up running 1:16 or something.
As we enter downtown, I see my girlfriend and brother and some other people I know. Then I see the elites go by in the other direction! Rob Watson is killing it. Rob Watson is the best.
Pass my first elite around here--a lady. Going through some of the hills downtown, I pass another one. For a while, her outrider goes in front of me, which is super useful as the course has lots of turns here and I can't see any runners ahead of me. Just as things straighten out, the rider stops and waits for their runner.
But soon I pass a third elite! Looks like a master's runner to me. Approaching Stanley Park, I pass another elite woman, and this time the cyclist sticks with me.
We enter Stanley Park, a little over halfway, and it's basically a time trial from here. Time trials are tough. The rolling hills begin, and I can feel 1:12-low slip away. Hills are also tough, it turns out. There's also an uphill finish. Going in, I thought the course would be a boon, as it is net downhill. But after running it, I think Edmonton's course, which is flat as a pancake, might actually be faster. You don't gain as much going downhill as you lose going up. And downhill presents its own risk of trashing your legs, unless it's downhill right at the end I guess.
Anyway, I manage to hang on for a very modest 15-second PB. Not sure I pushed as hard as I would have if I wasn't basically racing on my own, but for the start of the season I'll take it. Gotta leave something for the fall!
Now, after a week of easy runs, I'm ready to start my real marathon build. 1:11 and 2:3x await!
Nice race Bonham, you don't race super often (I guess a given with HM/M training) but you're consistency is really nice. Congrats on the PR. Not sure if that course has 1000ft of elevation game or if that was a strava figment, but if so that goes from a good race to an excellent one.
We all know how amazing of a runner he was. 27 WRs, 6 golds, 3:31, 12:39, 26:22, 2:03:59. Those numbers speak for themselves.
What's significant for me is the fact that Geb is the true, undisputed GOAT lover of running. Without a doubt in a Gebless world I would still be a 220lb chubster sitting around on the sofa. Discovering competitive running, and especially Geb, shortly after starting is what got me hooked. Watching both the beautiful way the guy ran, and then especially listening to him talk about running...it's just not possible not to get a massive smile on your face and want to go run.
Both one of the best runners and one of the best human beings and ambassadors in the sport. So long and thanks for all the memories!
On May 10 2015 20:15 Meat wrote: Bought new shoes in a runners shop a few weeks ago, asics gt-2000 3, pretty sure they are causing knee pain. I didn't have sore knees before, but now they are weak and sensitive after a run. So I'm having my doubts about that over pronating correction and soft bedding.
Did you increase distance or pace recently? What shoes did you wear before?
I went for a 15km run yesterday and it went much better. Pretty sure the problem was that I changed to a heel landing in these new shoes, so I'm going for more of a mid foot landing now.
What's significant for me is the fact that Geb is the true, undisputed GOAT lover of running.
Well said. Kenny B is still the greatest ever, but Geb is a very close second. And in love of running he is, without doubt, number one.
I'm going to get some Ethiopian takeout in his honor.
Great race Bonham. Now I'm intrigued how you'll do when you peak.
I still remember when I was a child and a teenager watching the Olympics or Worlds when it came to the 5k and 10k that Haile won what seemed like every race. Paula Radcliffe ran he last "competitive" marathon in London, too. It's truely the end of an era with arguably the two greatest distance runners ever retiring.
On May 10 2015 20:15 Meat wrote: Bought new shoes in a runners shop a few weeks ago, asics gt-2000 3, pretty sure they are causing knee pain. I didn't have sore knees before, but now they are weak and sensitive after a run. So I'm having my doubts about that over pronating correction and soft bedding.
Did you increase distance or pace recently? What shoes did you wear before?
I went for a 15km run yesterday and it went much better. Pretty sure the problem was that I changed to a heel landing in these new shoes, so I'm going for more of a mid foot landing now.
Disclaimer: The following is partially anecdotal advice without having done proper research. If it works, good. But please don't focus too hard on how your foot lands. There are elite runners who heel strike (eg Kimetto has a slight heel strike at one foot). What's really important is that your feet don't land in front of your centre of mass because if they do you (a) automatically lose some momentum and (b) increase the force of impact which is already really high at running. What you can do is to count your steps per minute. A high cadence usually improves your running form. 180 steps/minute is a good guideline but getting to 170 should be sufficient enough.
On a related note, I just finished reading Wheelmen, a great look at Armstrong and how he managed to dope for so long. (Spoiler: his winning made lots of people, not just him, lots of money. The fact that he's a total sociopath also helped.)
I hope he got booed again just like at most other events he ran at.
Not sure how Lance was regarded in the US during his career but it was always common knowledge that he was a massive doper just like his competitors. Jan Ullrich's shady affairs were one of the main reasons Cycling's popularity as a spectator sport dropped massively in Germany which in the end cost many companies which make money with cycling.
On a related note, I just finished reading Wheelmen, a great look at Armstrong and how he managed to dope for so long. (Spoiler: his winning made lots of people, not just him, lots of money. The fact that he's a total sociopath also helped.)
9.74 actually. Easing up at the line. In May. On and at 33.
Seems totally legit.
Sorta okay seeing Fo Marah lose, but not entirely because he got beat in a kick with 400 to go...which means it will likely only make the guys think maybe they can outkick him now...ergo more sit and kick. I really don't mind sit and kick that much, but it doesn't even feel like we get one good TT type race a year on the track, and it would be fun to watch a race expecting something other than sprint with 300 to go.
I really enjoying watching dominant runners dominate, but not in Farah style. There has to be some fast races in there, if Farah started dropping some 12:40s or 26:20s I'd be in full support.
Hey guys, I feel like I'm being stupid and seeing as you have helped me out before, I was hoping you could help again.
Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points)
Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada).
I was trying to determine my VDOT for current training for a half marathon in the fall. A month or more ago I was able to run a mile in 6 minutes on the treadmill, which gave me a VDOT of about 48.4 according to Jack Daniels' VDOT calculator (linked here: https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/ )
2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday. On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles, I ended up doing 6.25 miles in total for the night run. I calculated the VDOT for the 3.5 miles at 7:03 and it came out to 45.1.
Feeling dejected today I decided to run outside again and ran 5 miles in 41 min. It began to feel like I was punishing myself now....I rode my bike for 15 minutes to my parents house and a couple hours later, stopped at a track on my way back, belly full of food and ran 800m in 2:56.VDOT of 46.3 - better but I wanted 48 so badly like I had a couple months ago.
It was basically the binge eating equivalent in exercising....I want to keep trying for some elusive number. I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half. Seems dumb because even a VDOT of 45 sets me up for a PB of 1:40.
Have you guys been in this situation before? I am soon entering the second phase of training and wanted to see what you guys thought....I was so dejected that even after 2 weeks of major taper I wasn't any faster. My legs were sore from swimming the day before I returned home...but ARGHHHHHH.
I love the science behind running which is probably why I get hung up on those VDOT numbers. I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.This is starting to sound like a whine blog but I am afraid I am going to push myself to far and end up getting injured by doing stupid training.
I'll just stop and see if you guys have any words of wisdom.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: Hey guys, I feel like I'm being stupid and seeing as you have helped me out before, I was hoping you could help again.
Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points)
Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada).
I was trying to determine my VDOT for current training for a half marathon in the fall. A month or more ago I was able to run a mile in 6 minutes on the treadmill, which gave me a VDOT of about 48.4 according to Jack Daniels' VDOT calculator (linked here: https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/ )
2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday. On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles, I ended up doing 6.25 miles in total for the night run. I calculated the VDOT for the 3.5 miles at 7:03 and it came out to 45.1.
Feeling dejected today I decided to run outside again and ran 5 miles in 41 min. It began to feel like I was punishing myself now....I rode my bike for 15 minutes to my parents house and a couple hours later, stopped at a track on my way back, belly full of food and ran 800m in 2:56.VDOT of 46.3 - better but I wanted 48 so badly like I had a couple months ago.
It was basically the binge eating equivalent in exercising....I want to keep trying for some elusive number. I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half. Seems dumb because even a VDOT of 45 sets me up for a PB of 1:40.
Have you guys been in this situation before? I am soon entering the second phase of training and wanted to see what you guys thought....I was so dejected that even after 2 weeks of major taper I wasn't any faster. My legs were sore from swimming the day before I returned home...but ARGHHHHHH.
I love the science behind running which is probably why I get hung up on those VDOT numbers. I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.This is starting to sound like a whine blog but I am afraid I am going to push myself to far and end up getting injured by doing stupid training.
I'll just stop and see if you guys have any words of wisdom.
/end whine
Yeah you get way too hung up in VDOT numbers.
1. A two week long complete break from running isn't a good taper. 2. A time trial will almost always be slower than an actual race. 3. Multiple hard efforts in succesion will put a strain on you and you'll never reach your actual potential. 4. Don't bother with shorter distances than 10k to get a guess on your HM potential.
When is the half you want to run. Do you have time to get a 6-8 week training cycle for a 10k in right now? If not start your training plan and target a pace you'd be happy with. Make sure to run a test race a few weeks before the half. I think a 1:30 half would be impossible to achieve coming from a 45:10 10k. 1:30 is fucking fast in my book.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: Hey guys, I feel like I'm being stupid and seeing as you have helped me out before, I was hoping you could help again.
Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points)
Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada).
I was trying to determine my VDOT for current training for a half marathon in the fall. A month or more ago I was able to run a mile in 6 minutes on the treadmill, which gave me a VDOT of about 48.4 according to Jack Daniels' VDOT calculator (linked here: https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/ )
2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday. On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles, I ended up doing 6.25 miles in total for the night run. I calculated the VDOT for the 3.5 miles at 7:03 and it came out to 45.1.
Feeling dejected today I decided to run outside again and ran 5 miles in 41 min. It began to feel like I was punishing myself now....I rode my bike for 15 minutes to my parents house and a couple hours later, stopped at a track on my way back, belly full of food and ran 800m in 2:56.VDOT of 46.3 - better but I wanted 48 so badly like I had a couple months ago.
It was basically the binge eating equivalent in exercising....I want to keep trying for some elusive number. I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half. Seems dumb because even a VDOT of 45 sets me up for a PB of 1:40.
Have you guys been in this situation before? I am soon entering the second phase of training and wanted to see what you guys thought....I was so dejected that even after 2 weeks of major taper I wasn't any faster. My legs were sore from swimming the day before I returned home...but ARGHHHHHH.
I love the science behind running which is probably why I get hung up on those VDOT numbers. I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.This is starting to sound like a whine blog but I am afraid I am going to push myself to far and end up getting injured by doing stupid training.
I'll just stop and see if you guys have any words of wisdom.
/end whine
Yeah you get way too hung up in VDOT numbers.
1. A two week long complete break from running isn't a good taper. 2. A time trial will almost always be slower than an actual race. 3. Multiple hard efforts in succesion will put a strain on you and you'll never reach your actual potential. 4. Don't bother with shorter distances than 10k to get a guess on your HM potential.
When is the half you want to run. Do you have time to get a 6-8 week training cycle for a 10k in right now? If not start your training plan and target a pace you'd be happy with. Make sure to run a test race a few weeks before the half. I think a 1:30 half would be impossible to achieve coming from a 45:10 10k. 1:30 is fucking fast in my book.
How did you 40 mile weeks look like btw?
1. I know it wasn't a good taper, but I didn't really have a choice and I thought I'd at least be a little fresher. 2. noted. 3. Yeah, I was dumb, just chasing numbers. 4. noted.
The half I want to run is Sept. 11/12. I was following a half marathon training plan by Jack Daniels' in his Running Formula book. Phase 2 starts to include some 200 repeats and a threshold run each week. My 40 mile weeks have been essentially easy runs with one run being about 10-13M.
Would inserting a 6-8 week 10K plan mess up my training schedule? It would essentially replace my phase 2? Do you know of any good ones, or should I look online for some?
On May 17 2015 08:51 Alcathous wrote: Well they are all on dope. Donno why to boo some, but not others. Just because they got unlucky/bad at beating the IQ test?
In sprinting, maybe. In overall athletics. no. Why boo some and not others? Because of a concept called innocent until proven guilty. Asafa, Gay, and Gatlin have been caught, the others haven't and while it's highly probable they are doping we cannot prove this.
I boo anybody that's been convicted because they should be out of the sport. The fact there isn't a lifetime ban for doping is a travesty.
Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points)
Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada).
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half.
What exactly made you decide to target 1:30? Not to be discouraging but none of your race times suggest anything close to current 1:30 half ability. Drop a 19:30 5k or 40:00 10k and then you can start to think about 1:30.
Right now I would say 1:35 is an ambitious, but not inconceivable goal. The only way you are breaking 1:30 in the fall is if you have some weight to lose and do a good job of that.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: 2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles
So, you took two weeks off from training and were disappointed that you weren't running as fast as you were two weeks ago? Ehm.....wat?
I'm not really sure what you expected, but doing no training is not a taper. Your doing modest mileage with almost no intensity, a taper is just going to hurt you at this point. If you had 40 mpw with 2-3 good, solid workouts and cut back towards 30 mpw slightly curtailing the volume of repeats in the hard sessions...you might see a slight benefit. At 40mpw and running easy there is nothing to be gained by even a modest taper. All taper benefits are modest though, perhaps 1-2% at most.
Doing no running is not a taper. That's called not training.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.
First, it sounds like you took a relative break until Christmas, and only recently have begun hitting decent mileage in the 40mpw zone. It takes a while for benefits to start kicking in, and you're only doing easy runs. Expecting really great form right now isn't realistic. Keep up the training and start adding in some workouts and by July you'll be running much better than you ever have.
That's compounded by the fact that you just took two weeks off. Not coming close to an all time PR after multiple weeks off is expected, and would be very shocking if you could beat that. Additionally 3.5M in 24:30 after a hard 4 miles earlier in the day isn't much worse, if at all worse, than a 6:00 mile. You're not far off where you were. One final word...don't do fitness tests on the treadmill, they are great for workouts, but not for fitness testing. You don't get any experience with pacing, there is no wind, and most importantly they are notoriously inaccurate. I've been on treadmills where I could cruise a 3M tempo in 18:00, or others where 3M in 19:30 would have been all out race pace.
In summary: You're in a good spot laying down some nice base with fitness coming along well. Just keep training, start getting some workouts in there, and focus on 1:35 as a goal time for your half marathon. You'll be running very strong by fall.
On May 18 2015 00:49 L_Master wrote: In summary: You're in a good spot laying down some nice base with fitness coming along well. Just keep training, start getting some workouts in there, and focus on 1:35 as a goal time for your half marathon. You'll be running very strong by fall.
I second that. Train for 1:35 and if you're unsure about your fitness level a few weeks before the race squeeze in a 10k test race. I'm not familiar with Daniels' plans but many other plans include test races. Most importantly keep us up to date.
Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy.
A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.
So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.
The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.
I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily.
On May 19 2015 04:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.
So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.
The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.
I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily.
Damn, that's scary. Did you just lose consciousness while running?
I had an almost similar experience at my HM in the fall. I finished the race though but sat down right at the finish line and had to lie down a while under paramedic's suveillance. I puked out the water they gave me but was able to walk away after half an hour. I puked another time later that day after having dinner and sitting in a car. It was a hot day though and I had a minor viral infection that week so my body was weakend.
A HM should feel hard. You're supposed to get tired at the halfway mark and the last quarter is just pure agony because you're usually running around threshold pace. You should definitely get yourself examined by a (sport) physician if your heart or whatever has an issue.
Congrats on pushing yourself to the limit though. Best thing to get your confidence back (if you're healthy) is to get back to training and run a shorter race asap.
On May 18 2015 15:07 L_Master wrote: Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy.
Next up on the meet list: YPang.
I'm jelly. Section 16 is a shitty name for a trail though.
On May 18 2015 15:07 L_Master wrote: Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy.
Next up on the meet list: YPang.
I'm jelly. Section 16 is a shitty name for a trail though.
Haha why is Section 16 a bad name? Makes it sound like some sketch alien place or something, works for me.
On May 19 2015 04:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.
So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.
The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.
I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily.
I'm a little unclear on whether you passed out or not. It would be nice to know medically what they said happened, while it's unlikely it's something serious, having that happen is absolutely something you should take seriously. People generally don't pass out during races, and when it does it can be related to potential heart or other health issues. This probably isn't the case, but it's something I would highly encourage you not to ignore if they didn't already give you some solid medical answers.
Without that being the issue, the next question I would have is how hot was it? If it was humid and up 70+, that may have played a role. From what you described, I'm rather doubting dehydration. You can do 2 hours of training pretty easily with no water at all, and if you came in reasonably hydrated and took on fluids I expect you were fine on that end. It's possible you went the other way and actually had to much water....which can cause its own set of trouble.
Bottom line is I don't have a good answer for you. Since you said you were feeling good with only a mile to go, I sincerely doubt it was anything related to dehydration or exhaustion. Even ignoring the fact that you took on fluids, if you are getting so dehydrated you pass out...you're going to be feeling like complete shit and your performance suffering massively.
On May 19 2015 04:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.
So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.
The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.
I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily.
I'm a little unclear on whether you passed out or not. It would be nice to know medically what they said happened, while it's unlikely it's something serious, having that happen is absolutely something you should take seriously. People generally don't pass out during races, and when it does it can be related to potential heart or other health issues. This probably isn't the case, but it's something I would highly encourage you not to ignore if they didn't already give you some solid medical answers.
What do you mean precisely by "passed out"? I certainly do not remember falling down, or being taken care of while on the ground. In particular, I hit my face on the ground without using my hands to block my fall, so from that I assume I passed out.
Without that being the issue, the next question I would have is how hot was it? If it was humid and up 70+, that may have played a role. From what you described, I'm rather doubting dehydration. You can do 2 hours of training pretty easily with no water at all, and if you came in reasonably hydrated and took on fluids I expect you were fine on that end. It's possible you went the other way and actually had to much water....which can cause its own set of trouble.
It was low 70s and quite muggy -- in fact it was actively pouring for the first six miles or so. And
It's possible I overhydrated, but is that really possible just from drinking at water stations? Each water station had both a Gatorade table and a water table, and at each station I took one Gatorade cup and one water cup.
I did have to pee at the start of the race and didn't get a chance to. The feeling subsided but then came back, and at mile 10 I ran into a port-a-potty and peed.
Bottom line is I don't have a good answer for you. Since you said you were feeling good with only a mile to go, I sincerely doubt it was anything related to dehydration or exhaustion. Even ignoring the fact that you took on fluids, if you are getting so dehydrated you pass out...you're going to be feeling like complete shit and your performance suffering massively.
To be clear -- when I say I felt good, I didn't want to suggest that I could run for another few hours or so. I was definitely feeling it. I'd check my watch -- "11.1 miles" -- run for what felt like a while -- then check my watch again -- "11.2 miles" -- "GODDAMN IT". I don't think I could have held a cogent conversation (maybe I could grunt words at you though). But at no point did I think to myself, "Holy shit, I feel really bad, worse than I've ever felt during running, I need to stop." In fact I vividly remember thinking that I could/should slow down and still make my goal since I had hit mile 12 ahead of schedule. My HR (according to my watch at least) had started off in the 180s for the first 4 miles but settled into the 160s after that.
On May 19 2015 06:09 GrandInquisitor wrote: To be clear -- when I say I felt good, I didn't want to suggest that I could run for another few hours or so. I was definitely feeling it. I'd check my watch -- "11.1 miles" -- run for what felt like a while -- then check my watch again -- "11.2 miles" -- "GODDAMN IT". I don't think I could have held a cogent conversation (maybe I could grunt words at you though). But at no point did I think to myself, "Holy shit, I feel really bad, worse than I've ever felt during running, I need to stop." In fact I vividly remember thinking that I could/should slow down and still make my goal since I had hit mile 12 ahead of schedule. My HR (according to my watch at least) had started off in the 180s for the first 4 miles but settled into the 160s after that.
Yea, thats to be expected. You never really feel "good" at any point past somewhere between 1/4 and halfway through a race. You're working. But when I say feeling good I mean that the race is going well, you feel under control, etc. Still hurting, but still moving along.
On May 19 2015 04:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.
So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.
The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.
I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily.
I'm a little unclear on whether you passed out or not. It would be nice to know medically what they said happened, while it's unlikely it's something serious, having that happen is absolutely something you should take seriously. People generally don't pass out during races, and when it does it can be related to potential heart or other health issues. This probably isn't the case, but it's something I would highly encourage you not to ignore if they didn't already give you some solid medical answers.
What do you mean precisely by "passed out"? I certainly do not remember falling down, or being taken care of while on the ground. In particular, I hit my face on the ground without using my hands to block my fall, so from that I assume I passed out.
Lost consciousness. Which is definitely what happened from that description.
What was the opinion offered by the medical guys afterwords in terms of what happened?
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: Hey guys, I feel like I'm being stupid and seeing as you have helped me out before, I was hoping you could help again.
Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points)
Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada).
I was trying to determine my VDOT for current training for a half marathon in the fall. A month or more ago I was able to run a mile in 6 minutes on the treadmill, which gave me a VDOT of about 48.4 according to Jack Daniels' VDOT calculator (linked here: https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/ )
2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday. On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles, I ended up doing 6.25 miles in total for the night run. I calculated the VDOT for the 3.5 miles at 7:03 and it came out to 45.1.
Feeling dejected today I decided to run outside again and ran 5 miles in 41 min. It began to feel like I was punishing myself now....I rode my bike for 15 minutes to my parents house and a couple hours later, stopped at a track on my way back, belly full of food and ran 800m in 2:56.VDOT of 46.3 - better but I wanted 48 so badly like I had a couple months ago.
It was basically the binge eating equivalent in exercising....I want to keep trying for some elusive number. I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half. Seems dumb because even a VDOT of 45 sets me up for a PB of 1:40.
Have you guys been in this situation before? I am soon entering the second phase of training and wanted to see what you guys thought....I was so dejected that even after 2 weeks of major taper I wasn't any faster. My legs were sore from swimming the day before I returned home...but ARGHHHHHH.
I love the science behind running which is probably why I get hung up on those VDOT numbers. I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.This is starting to sound like a whine blog but I am afraid I am going to push myself to far and end up getting injured by doing stupid training.
I'll just stop and see if you guys have any words of wisdom.
/end whine
Yeah you get way too hung up in VDOT numbers.
1. A two week long complete break from running isn't a good taper. 2. A time trial will almost always be slower than an actual race. 3. Multiple hard efforts in succesion will put a strain on you and you'll never reach your actual potential. 4. Don't bother with shorter distances than 10k to get a guess on your HM potential.
When is the half you want to run. Do you have time to get a 6-8 week training cycle for a 10k in right now? If not start your training plan and target a pace you'd be happy with. Make sure to run a test race a few weeks before the half. I think a 1:30 half would be impossible to achieve coming from a 45:10 10k. 1:30 is fucking fast in my book.
How did you 40 mile weeks look like btw?
1. I know it wasn't a good taper, but I didn't really have a choice and I thought I'd at least be a little fresher. 2. noted. 3. Yeah, I was dumb, just chasing numbers. 4. noted.
The half I want to run is Sept. 11/12. I was following a half marathon training plan by Jack Daniels' in his Running Formula book. Phase 2 starts to include some 200 repeats and a threshold run each week. My 40 mile weeks have been essentially easy runs with one run being about 10-13M.
Would inserting a 6-8 week 10K plan mess up my training schedule? It would essentially replace my phase 2? Do you know of any good ones, or should I look online for some?
Thanks for your help!
I had a similar goal as yourself a couple years ago and I pulled it off running something like 25-30 mpw with a long run of 9-10 miles. Here's what I did in terms of "hard" workouts: 1) 4-5 mile tempos at goal HM pace. 2) Sometimes 800m-1200m repeats at 5k pace with 1 lap walking recovery of the track. 3) Sometimes 400m repeats at mile pace with 1 lap walking recovery. In general I tried to make the total mileage of the 2) and 3) workouts at least 3-4 miles.
So going off what I told you, slowly introduce speed workouts and tempos into your schedule and begin to drop the total mileage as you replace one easy run session with a workout or tempo session. If you're feeling gutsy and fresh, sometime down the road you can add a second workout, though I don't recommend it because it seems to me you're already trying to do too much. Remember: when in doubt, do less.
It goes without saying that if your workout paces are so hard that you never complete the intended workout, you should dial them down.
Anyways, I'm off to play me some Witcher 3 Good luck with training.
On May 19 2015 06:09 GrandInquisitor wrote: To be clear -- when I say I felt good, I didn't want to suggest that I could run for another few hours or so. I was definitely feeling it. I'd check my watch -- "11.1 miles" -- run for what felt like a while -- then check my watch again -- "11.2 miles" -- "GODDAMN IT". I don't think I could have held a cogent conversation (maybe I could grunt words at you though). But at no point did I think to myself, "Holy shit, I feel really bad, worse than I've ever felt during running, I need to stop." In fact I vividly remember thinking that I could/should slow down and still make my goal since I had hit mile 12 ahead of schedule. My HR (according to my watch at least) had started off in the 180s for the first 4 miles but settled into the 160s after that.
Yea, thats to be expected. You never really feel "good" at any point past somewhere between 1/4 and halfway through a race. You're working. But when I say feeling good I mean that the race is going well, you feel under control, etc. Still hurting, but still moving along.
On May 19 2015 04:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.
So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.
The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.
I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily.
I'm a little unclear on whether you passed out or not. It would be nice to know medically what they said happened, while it's unlikely it's something serious, having that happen is absolutely something you should take seriously. People generally don't pass out during races, and when it does it can be related to potential heart or other health issues. This probably isn't the case, but it's something I would highly encourage you not to ignore if they didn't already give you some solid medical answers.
What do you mean precisely by "passed out"? I certainly do not remember falling down, or being taken care of while on the ground. In particular, I hit my face on the ground without using my hands to block my fall, so from that I assume I passed out.
Lost consciousness. Which is definitely what happened from that description.
What was the opinion offered by the medical guys afterwords in terms of what happened?
They didn't really say much other than I collapsed at the race. They didn't see me fall, after all. I'm going in for a full physical and workup this week.
It's funny to read some people's race reports and find myself show up in them
I'm mostly just frustrated. 12.2 fucking miles and I collapse like that? Bleh.
On May 19 2015 06:09 GrandInquisitor wrote: To be clear -- when I say I felt good, I didn't want to suggest that I could run for another few hours or so. I was definitely feeling it. I'd check my watch -- "11.1 miles" -- run for what felt like a while -- then check my watch again -- "11.2 miles" -- "GODDAMN IT". I don't think I could have held a cogent conversation (maybe I could grunt words at you though). But at no point did I think to myself, "Holy shit, I feel really bad, worse than I've ever felt during running, I need to stop." In fact I vividly remember thinking that I could/should slow down and still make my goal since I had hit mile 12 ahead of schedule. My HR (according to my watch at least) had started off in the 180s for the first 4 miles but settled into the 160s after that.
Yea, thats to be expected. You never really feel "good" at any point past somewhere between 1/4 and halfway through a race. You're working. But when I say feeling good I mean that the race is going well, you feel under control, etc. Still hurting, but still moving along.
On May 19 2015 06:09 GrandInquisitor wrote:
On May 19 2015 05:41 L_Master wrote:
On May 19 2015 04:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.
So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.
The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.
I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily.
I'm a little unclear on whether you passed out or not. It would be nice to know medically what they said happened, while it's unlikely it's something serious, having that happen is absolutely something you should take seriously. People generally don't pass out during races, and when it does it can be related to potential heart or other health issues. This probably isn't the case, but it's something I would highly encourage you not to ignore if they didn't already give you some solid medical answers.
What do you mean precisely by "passed out"? I certainly do not remember falling down, or being taken care of while on the ground. In particular, I hit my face on the ground without using my hands to block my fall, so from that I assume I passed out.
Lost consciousness. Which is definitely what happened from that description.
What was the opinion offered by the medical guys afterwords in terms of what happened?
They didn't really say much other than I collapsed at the race. They didn't see me fall, after all. I'm going in for a full physical and workup this week.
It's funny to read some people's race reports and find myself show up in them
I'm mostly just frustrated. 12.2 fucking miles and I collapse like that? Bleh.
No reason to be frustrated. You ran a very solid race and gave it damn near everything you've got. That's nothing to be disappointed in, especially since the collapsing was beyond your control.
On May 18 2015 15:07 L_Master wrote: Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy.
Next up on the meet list: YPang.
I'm jelly. Section 16 is a shitty name for a trail though.
Ha - it's a pretty well-known bit of trail around CO Springs, many thanks to L_Master for introducing me to it. He didn't mention that he brought a friend who pushed my arse all the way up the steep stuff. Beware his down-hill speed, too!!
It was fun to meet up IRL, 10/10 would do again (and hope that L_Master or any of the rest of you will consider letting me know if you're in Boulder/Denver!).
On May 18 2015 15:07 L_Master wrote: Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy.
Next up on the meet list: YPang.
I'm jelly. Section 16 is a shitty name for a trail though.
Ha - it's a pretty well-known bit of trail around CO Springs, many thanks to L_Master for introducing me to it. He didn't mention that he brought a friend who pushed my arse all the way up the steep stuff. Beware his down-hill speed, too!!
It was fun to meet up IRL, 10/10 would do again (and hope that L_Master or any of the rest of you will consider letting me know if you're in Boulder/Denver!).
Well i'll be up in Bolder this weekend for sure for BB. Probably not going to race due to the entry fee being so high at this point, but definitely be happy to catch some food and the pro race with ya if you're going to be there.
On May 19 2015 06:09 GrandInquisitor wrote: To be clear -- when I say I felt good, I didn't want to suggest that I could run for another few hours or so. I was definitely feeling it. I'd check my watch -- "11.1 miles" -- run for what felt like a while -- then check my watch again -- "11.2 miles" -- "GODDAMN IT". I don't think I could have held a cogent conversation (maybe I could grunt words at you though). But at no point did I think to myself, "Holy shit, I feel really bad, worse than I've ever felt during running, I need to stop." In fact I vividly remember thinking that I could/should slow down and still make my goal since I had hit mile 12 ahead of schedule. My HR (according to my watch at least) had started off in the 180s for the first 4 miles but settled into the 160s after that.
Yea, thats to be expected. You never really feel "good" at any point past somewhere between 1/4 and halfway through a race. You're working. But when I say feeling good I mean that the race is going well, you feel under control, etc. Still hurting, but still moving along.
On May 19 2015 06:09 GrandInquisitor wrote:
On May 19 2015 05:41 L_Master wrote:
On May 19 2015 04:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.
So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.
The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.
I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily.
I'm a little unclear on whether you passed out or not. It would be nice to know medically what they said happened, while it's unlikely it's something serious, having that happen is absolutely something you should take seriously. People generally don't pass out during races, and when it does it can be related to potential heart or other health issues. This probably isn't the case, but it's something I would highly encourage you not to ignore if they didn't already give you some solid medical answers.
What do you mean precisely by "passed out"? I certainly do not remember falling down, or being taken care of while on the ground. In particular, I hit my face on the ground without using my hands to block my fall, so from that I assume I passed out.
Lost consciousness. Which is definitely what happened from that description.
What was the opinion offered by the medical guys afterwords in terms of what happened?
They didn't really say much other than I collapsed at the race. They didn't see me fall, after all. I'm going in for a full physical and workup this week.
It's funny to read some people's race reports and find myself show up in them
I'm mostly just frustrated. 12.2 fucking miles and I collapse like that? Bleh.
On May 20 2015 00:35 L_Master wrote: No reason to be frustrated. You ran a very solid race and gave it damn near everything you've got. That's nothing to be disappointed in, especially since the collapsing was beyond your control.
Next time out you'll run sub 1:55 or sub 1:50.
'Have to agree with L_Master, here. Some of the funniest/most badass running moments ever are when things are pushed to a breaking point and your body rebels!
Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points)
Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada).
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half.
What exactly made you decide to target 1:30? Not to be discouraging but none of your race times suggest anything close to current 1:30 half ability. Drop a 19:30 5k or 40:00 10k and then you can start to think about 1:30.
Right now I would say 1:35 is an ambitious, but not inconceivable goal. The only way you are breaking 1:30 in the fall is if you have some weight to lose and do a good job of that.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: 2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles
So, you took two weeks off from training and were disappointed that you weren't running as fast as you were two weeks ago? Ehm.....wat?
I'm not really sure what you expected, but doing no training is not a taper. Your doing modest mileage with almost no intensity, a taper is just going to hurt you at this point. If you had 40 mpw with 2-3 good, solid workouts and cut back towards 30 mpw slightly curtailing the volume of repeats in the hard sessions...you might see a slight benefit. At 40mpw and running easy there is nothing to be gained by even a modest taper. All taper benefits are modest though, perhaps 1-2% at most.
Doing no running is not a taper. That's called not training.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.
First, it sounds like you took a relative break until Christmas, and only recently have begun hitting decent mileage in the 40mpw zone. It takes a while for benefits to start kicking in, and you're only doing easy runs. Expecting really great form right now isn't realistic. Keep up the training and start adding in some workouts and by July you'll be running much better than you ever have.
That's compounded by the fact that you just took two weeks off. Not coming close to an all time PR after multiple weeks off is expected, and would be very shocking if you could beat that. Additionally 3.5M in 24:30 after a hard 4 miles earlier in the day isn't much worse, if at all worse, than a 6:00 mile. You're not far off where you were. One final word...don't do fitness tests on the treadmill, they are great for workouts, but not for fitness testing. You don't get any experience with pacing, there is no wind, and most importantly they are notoriously inaccurate. I've been on treadmills where I could cruise a 3M tempo in 18:00, or others where 3M in 19:30 would have been all out race pace.
In summary: You're in a good spot laying down some nice base with fitness coming along well. Just keep training, start getting some workouts in there, and focus on 1:35 as a goal time for your half marathon. You'll be running very strong by fall.
Thanks for the advice. I guess I was targeting a 1:30 HM as I thought it would be cool, and for some reason I still can't get my head around how running 10-15 seconds faster per mile is any kind of improvement. As for the 2 week stoppage, I know it wasn't a taper, but I though that the rest might do me some good (it did fix the nagging ankle sprain I had suffered a month ago). I'll target 1:35 or 1:37 and let you guys know ym progress.
Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points)
Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada).
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half.
What exactly made you decide to target 1:30? Not to be discouraging but none of your race times suggest anything close to current 1:30 half ability. Drop a 19:30 5k or 40:00 10k and then you can start to think about 1:30.
Right now I would say 1:35 is an ambitious, but not inconceivable goal. The only way you are breaking 1:30 in the fall is if you have some weight to lose and do a good job of that.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: 2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles
So, you took two weeks off from training and were disappointed that you weren't running as fast as you were two weeks ago? Ehm.....wat?
I'm not really sure what you expected, but doing no training is not a taper. Your doing modest mileage with almost no intensity, a taper is just going to hurt you at this point. If you had 40 mpw with 2-3 good, solid workouts and cut back towards 30 mpw slightly curtailing the volume of repeats in the hard sessions...you might see a slight benefit. At 40mpw and running easy there is nothing to be gained by even a modest taper. All taper benefits are modest though, perhaps 1-2% at most.
Doing no running is not a taper. That's called not training.
On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote: I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.
First, it sounds like you took a relative break until Christmas, and only recently have begun hitting decent mileage in the 40mpw zone. It takes a while for benefits to start kicking in, and you're only doing easy runs. Expecting really great form right now isn't realistic. Keep up the training and start adding in some workouts and by July you'll be running much better than you ever have.
That's compounded by the fact that you just took two weeks off. Not coming close to an all time PR after multiple weeks off is expected, and would be very shocking if you could beat that. Additionally 3.5M in 24:30 after a hard 4 miles earlier in the day isn't much worse, if at all worse, than a 6:00 mile. You're not far off where you were. One final word...don't do fitness tests on the treadmill, they are great for workouts, but not for fitness testing. You don't get any experience with pacing, there is no wind, and most importantly they are notoriously inaccurate. I've been on treadmills where I could cruise a 3M tempo in 18:00, or others where 3M in 19:30 would have been all out race pace.
In summary: You're in a good spot laying down some nice base with fitness coming along well. Just keep training, start getting some workouts in there, and focus on 1:35 as a goal time for your half marathon. You'll be running very strong by fall.
Thanks for the advice. I guess I was targeting a 1:30 HM as I thought it would be cool, and for some reason I still can't get my head around how running 10-15 seconds faster per mile is any kind of improvement. As for the 2 week stoppage, I know it wasn't a taper, but I though that the rest might do me some good (it did fix the nagging ankle sprain I had suffered a month ago). I'll target 1:35 or 1:37 and let you guys know ym progress.
Thanks!
o.O
Thats HUGE improvement. The difference between a 4:30 and a 4:45 miler are huge, as would be the differences between a 2:37 and a 2:45 marathon.
I'll put it this way: if you're 5 s/mile faster than someone your noticeably stronger. A 19:15 5k guy is almost never going to beat a 19:00 guy. 15 s/mile is in a different league. 13:00 5k makes you world class, 13:45 doesn't even make you a threat in tough college races. 30 s/mile is a completely different runner. A guy that runs 15:30 for 5k can do a relaxed 4-5 mile tempo run at the same pace a 17:00 5k runner can race all out for 5k.
So yes, in the running world 15 s/mile is a very nice improvement. I think just about any runner would be satisfied with a 15 s/mile improvement per training cycle.
On May 18 2015 15:07 L_Master wrote: Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy.
Next up on the meet list: YPang.
I'm jelly. Section 16 is a shitty name for a trail though.
Ha - it's a pretty well-known bit of trail around CO Springs, many thanks to L_Master for introducing me to it. He didn't mention that he brought a friend who pushed my arse all the way up the steep stuff. Beware his down-hill speed, too!!
It was fun to meet up IRL, 10/10 would do again (and hope that L_Master or any of the rest of you will consider letting me know if you're in Boulder/Denver!).
On May 18 2015 15:07 L_Master wrote: Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy.
Next up on the meet list: YPang.
I'm jelly. Section 16 is a shitty name for a trail though.
Ha - it's a pretty well-known bit of trail around CO Springs, many thanks to L_Master for introducing me to it. He didn't mention that he brought a friend who pushed my arse all the way up the steep stuff. Beware his down-hill speed, too!!
It was fun to meet up IRL, 10/10 would do again (and hope that L_Master or any of the rest of you will consider letting me know if you're in Boulder/Denver!).
I'll pay you visit when I run Leaville.
Definitely do let me know when visiting. 'Missed getting in touch with L_Master this past weekend, but had a good Bolder Boulder = 36 minutes! No real race report, except to say that if you feel good in a race and you're passing people you normally don't, maybe your mini taper and fitness are doing the work for you!
On May 18 2015 15:07 L_Master wrote: Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy.
Next up on the meet list: YPang.
I'm jelly. Section 16 is a shitty name for a trail though.
Ha - it's a pretty well-known bit of trail around CO Springs, many thanks to L_Master for introducing me to it. He didn't mention that he brought a friend who pushed my arse all the way up the steep stuff. Beware his down-hill speed, too!!
It was fun to meet up IRL, 10/10 would do again (and hope that L_Master or any of the rest of you will consider letting me know if you're in Boulder/Denver!).
I'll pay you visit when I run Leaville.
Definitely do let me know when visiting. 'Missed getting in touch with L_Master this past weekend, but had a good Bolder Boulder = 36 minutes! No real race report, except to say that if you feel good in a race and you're passing people you normally don't, maybe your mini taper and fitness are doing the work for you!
Excited for the Dirty 30 this Saturday!!!
Yea that was a sweet run on a not easy course. Definitely close to, and quite possible in, sub 17 shape. Good pacing too, you always seem to have that down solid in your races.
On May 18 2015 15:07 L_Master wrote: Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy.
Next up on the meet list: YPang.
I'm jelly. Section 16 is a shitty name for a trail though.
Ha - it's a pretty well-known bit of trail around CO Springs, many thanks to L_Master for introducing me to it. He didn't mention that he brought a friend who pushed my arse all the way up the steep stuff. Beware his down-hill speed, too!!
It was fun to meet up IRL, 10/10 would do again (and hope that L_Master or any of the rest of you will consider letting me know if you're in Boulder/Denver!).
I'll pay you visit when I run Leaville.
Definitely do let me know when visiting. 'Missed getting in touch with L_Master this past weekend, but had a good Bolder Boulder = 36 minutes! No real race report, except to say that if you feel good in a race and you're passing people you normally don't, maybe your mini taper and fitness are doing the work for you!
Excited for the Dirty 30 this Saturday!!!
Saw that at Strava. Imagine what you could do at a flat course at sea level.
Speaking of "mini taper". I have my last 10k next friday before I focus on marathon training. It's kind of important to me because I think I've made a lot of progress in the last two months and I want to use the result to determine the marathon pace I have to prepare for. I will run a 10k tempo tomorrow (if I have the balls to actually finish this time). What I plan to do atm is:
F: 10k tempo S: ~15k @recovery pace S:rest M: 5x1k T: ~7-8k rec W: easy +strides T: rest F: race
I've only tried running the day before the race once and it backfired hard so I'm a little hesitant to do that.
The Pre Classic is tomorrow, and both the 5k and especially the 10k look very interesting. Mo Farah, unbeaten at 10k since 2011, will return to the track after losing a 3000m race a few weeks ago. Does this mean he's mortal now? I sure friggin' hope so. But I can't wait to watch and find out!
On the 5k front, I'm hoping everyone but Cam Levins gets run over by a truck and he strolls to the win.
On May 29 2015 13:26 Bonham wrote: The Pre Classic is tomorrow, and both the 5k and especially the 10k look very interesting. Mo Farah, unbeaten at 10k since 2011, will return to the track after losing a 3000m race a few weeks ago. Does this mean he's mortal now? I sure friggin' hope so. But I can't wait to watch and find out!
On the 5k front, I'm hoping everyone but Cam Levins gets run over by a truck and he strolls to the win.
Anyone else tuning in?
Do I ever not tune in? :p
I think Farah will be mortal his next few races but get it figured out by August. That said, I don't think he loses this 10k unless the race goes sub 26:40 and it turns out he can't keep up. His kick was still very good a few weeks ago, just not untouchable as it has been. Against the 10k field no one can hang with that.
5k wise hoping for a good run from Galen, but expecting more 13:10 and out of contention a couple laps before the finish. Would be nice to see Cam do well, he did have that sick double back in the spring but I think has been a little off since then. Lets see if he has it back now.
Hey Lmaster. Your advice on training cycles was helpful, thank you! I'm going to take your advice to building up towards a goal race in the Autumn, though this has been hamstrung a bit by what happened yesterday, which was my goal race for spring.
So my Snowdonia half marathon was yesterday, and it was going along really well. At the 8 mile marker I was in 6th place, closing towards 5th and 4th (my older brother) and feeling good, with nobody behind me in sight. The hardest hill (which was insane!) was well behind and it was quite plain sailing to the end. But a marshal misdirected me as well as others, and by the time it became clear the race was already completely screwed. A group of us, 3rd-8th place or so came together into a pack, and one of them was a local guy so he led the way down various trails to find a route to the finish line. But yeah... no race really. Which is a shame because I've never trained so hard, or been so focused, and was on to finish really well. Still feeling seriously disappointed.
Damn though, GrandInquisitor, that sounds like a seriously bad experience! You need to pace yourself to finish fairly comfortably next time imo, to regain the confidence over that distance. Would be great to know really why it happened, but it can be just that you pushed too far beyond your pace as it's very easy to do on race day, and the adrenaline/added determination of the race overpowered your body's warning systems until it was too late.
I should be training for my triathlon on the 5th of July but for now im traveling a bit everywhere in france and its hard to start a training regimen. I was extremely busy with work this year so the only sport i did since february is rock climbing twice a week, not ideal to prepare! My first biking run was last week, 80 km and 1600+m that went surprisingly well considering my training.
I'm in Paris for a couple of days and i had the most fantastic run I've ever had in this city. Leaving from my old appartment i went to the Jardin des plantes, crossed the bridge to the notre dame cathedral continued to Beaubourg (museum of modern art) the Louvre, the tuileries garden, the Invalides garden, the national assembly building the Grand Palais, the Effeil tower... i feel i could have been payed to do this tour and let people follow me :D The last notable place i crossed was the montparnasse cemetery, it might be strange for some people that never been there but its one of my favorite place in Paris. All in all it was 17km and one of theses day it's impossible not to love this city. I logged it on strava with a couple of pictures as well if anyone is interested http://app.strava.com/activities/316077266
On June 01 2015 21:08 ImbaTosS wrote: Hey Lmaster. Your advice on training cycles was helpful, thank you! I'm going to take your advice to building up towards a goal race in the Autumn, though this has been hamstrung a bit by what happened yesterday, which was my goal race for spring.
So my Snowdonia half marathon was yesterday, and it was going along really well. At the 8 mile marker I was in 6th place, closing towards 5th and 4th (my older brother) and feeling good, with nobody behind me in sight. The hardest hill (which was insane!) was well behind and it was quite plain sailing to the end. But a marshal misdirected me as well as others, and by the time it became clear the race was already completely screwed. A group of us, 3rd-8th place or so came together into a pack, and one of them was a local guy so he led the way down various trails to find a route to the finish line. But yeah... no race really. Which is a shame because I've never trained so hard, or been so focused, and was on to finish really well. Still feeling seriously disappointed.
Damn though, GrandInquisitor, that sounds like a seriously bad experience! You need to pace yourself to finish fairly comfortably next time imo, to regain the confidence over that distance. Would be great to know really why it happened, but it can be just that you pushed too far beyond your pace as it's very easy to do on race day, and the adrenaline/added determination of the race overpowered your body's warning systems until it was too late.
Nice stuff Elegant, sounds like you were having a solid run; definitely a shame about being misdirected. Did you have a GPS/GPS watch to at least get some idea of the pace you ran over the distance you ended up having to cover? Of course it's nicer to have an official finish time and result, but if you covered say 20k in 78 minutes you have a pretty good idea that you're good for 1:22 shape.
Even if you didn't on the plus side you've built fitness and confidence with a nice, solid training cycle. Next race can be even better!
So I just started doing a bit of running again (not very far or fast yet :p), but I've found it's putting more stress on my lower back than I think it should.
I guess that means I'm running a bit wrong somehow, anyone brighter than me have any ideas how?
Maybe you should try some simple core training exercise? I know it helped me a lot with my posture and back pains. I'll let people more qualified than me talk about running form :D
On June 02 2015 19:43 marvellosity wrote: So I just started doing a bit of running again (not very far or fast yet :p), but I've found it's putting more stress on my lower back than I think it should.
I guess that means I'm running a bit wrong somehow, anyone brighter than me have any ideas how?
Could be form, but just as likely not. Certainly nothing we would be able to diagnose over the internet unfortunately. Best you can do is focus on the general form keys: quick, explosive footstrike, foot landing under COG, etc.
The most likely explanation to me is that given running is impact exercise, your back is being subject to new stress that it wasn't before and is thus sore in the same way your muscles become sore after lifting weights. If you're running regularly and it doesn't improve in a week or two...then consider form/core/muscle imbalance.
I'm not too sure if I'm in a slump right now, but I just recovered from a flu and I ran my personal worst in like 2 months of 9:50 for 1.5 miles. It's funny, because just 1 week ago, I ran a personal best of 9:35 when I was STILL quite ill. When I finished my time trial today I just felt bitterly disappointed and angry at myself. This was my second PB attempt in 2 days; my earlier attempt was 9:46 and I thought I couldn't do any worse, but I was wrong. Prior to these 2 attempts, I had never run slower than 9:43 in like 4-5 weeks. Even thought I felt quite good before the run, I quickly became tired after just 2 laps - I was aerobically tired, but my legs felt awesome. I don't remember being this tired this early in any PB attempt for quite a long while.
Can anyone help? Any advice for getting over this slump? Many thanks in advance... I'm a sad panda right now
I'm not too sure if I'm in a slump right now, but I just recovered from a flu and I ran my personal worst in like 2 months of 9:50 for 1.5 miles. It's funny, because just 1 week ago, I ran a personal best of 9:35 when I was STILL quite ill. When I finished my time trial today I just felt bitterly disappointed and angry at myself. This was my second PB attempt in 2 days; my earlier attempt was 9:46 and I thought I couldn't do any worse, but I was wrong. Prior to these 2 attempts, I had never run slower than 9:43 in like 4-5 weeks. Even thought I felt quite good before the run, I quickly became tired after just 2 laps - I was aerobically tired, but my legs felt awesome. I don't remember being this tired this early in any PB attempt for quite a long while.
Can anyone help? Any advice for getting over this slump? Many thanks in advance... I'm a sad panda right now
That's not a slump. Your body is tired. You can't expect to race every week (or day) and get PRs every single time. Your body needs time to recover. The flu mught very well be just a symptom of your body being overstrained. Your best bet right now is to do only easy runs for a while and heal up. Out of curiosity, how does your typical week of running look like?
Racing results are very frustrating when you race very often. Months do go by without really great race improvement even though you know you are putting in good or consistent runs and you are improving in training runs.
I'm no expert, but from my personal experience and seeing others racing really does tire out the body more than one might think or feel.
There is a reason why serious runners have training versus racing seasons. If you want to get a PB, you can't get a big PR following previous near max efforts (whether it is a race or time trial or whatever)
A few good recovery runs and then you might just smash a PR even though you feel the same level of effort as before.
Also, how old are you? Young guys vary a shit ton and some get away without planning recovery as well as they should (but they would do even better with the right planning, probably). But two guys who train the same could race very differently, even though it "looks" like in practice they are the same
On June 04 2015 01:33 N.geNuity wrote: Racing results are very frustrating when you race very often. Months do go by without really great race improvement even though you know you are putting in good or consistent runs and you are improving in training runs.
I'm no expert, but from my personal experience and seeing others racing really does tire out the body more than one might think or feel.
There is a reason why serious runners have training versus racing seasons. If you want to get a PB, you can't get a big PR following previous near max efforts (whether it is a race or time trial or whatever)
A few good recovery runs and then you might just smash a PR even though you feel the same level of effort as before.
Also, how old are you? Young guys vary a shit ton and some get away without planning recovery as well as they should (but they would do even better with the right planning, probably). But two guys who train the same could race very differently, even though it "looks" like in practice they are the same
I'm 23 years old, and I run 4-5 times a week. Usually it's a mix of racing, intervals and easy runs. I'll admit that I don't really have a structured training programme and diet, even though I'll be engaging a running coach soon to help me with my goals :p
You don't need to pay a coach unless you're trying to get competitive at an elite/sub-elite level. Most information you need is available online if you know your goals. If you want the face-to-face contact join a running club/group. Try to structure your training and drop races for a while and you'll run PRs soon enough.
It's surprising if NOP was outright doping. I expected to hear about all kinds of ethically questionable stuff for TUEs, optimum levels of varies chemicals and hormones, etc. but all of it technically within the bounds of legality.
Some of these allegations, such as the testosterone, suggest outright doping from NOP, which if true would be pretty surprising; both because Salazar has always seemed one to push boundaries as much as he could without technically cheating the letter of the law, and more importantly, because he surely realizes that nobody of that profile has any chance to get away with doping in the long term.
All the likely not-needed prescriptions and such many elites get are probably illegal by real law lol. I guarantee salazar is breaking laws about drug prescriptions, etc.
Wading through some letsrun trolls (that forum is hilarious) there actually has been some darn good journalism done over the years on just how unclean a whole bunch of people (or trainers) are
On June 03 2015 21:59 Clazziquai10 wrote: How do you break out of a slump?
I'm not too sure if I'm in a slump right now, but I just recovered from a flu and I ran my personal worst in like 2 months of 9:50 for 1.5 miles. It's funny, because just 1 week ago, I ran a personal best of 9:35 when I was STILL quite ill. When I finished my time trial today I just felt bitterly disappointed and angry at myself. This was my second PB attempt in 2 days; my earlier attempt was 9:46 and I thought I couldn't do any worse, but I was wrong. Prior to these 2 attempts, I had never run slower than 9:43 in like 4-5 weeks. Even thought I felt quite good before the run, I quickly became tired after just 2 laps - I was aerobically tired, but my legs felt awesome. I don't remember being this tired this early in any PB attempt for quite a long while.
Can anyone help? Any advice for getting over this slump? Many thanks in advance... I'm a sad panda right now
I probably wouldn't attempt a personal best more than once every week or two. Personal best efforts (or any running at 100-110% effort) done too often will break you down quickly. Two all out attempts in 2 days isn't leaving much room for recovery.
There are also a bunch of factors that go into a single performance on any given day, weather conditions, diet the day before and day of etc. heck sometimes I have bad days for no explainable reasons whatsoever, and other days I'm cruising as an insanely fast pace and it feels easy.
I wouldn't really be concerned after just two sub par performances. My best efforts and PR's usually come 2-3 weeks after solid focused training(or longer), and then a week of rest and easy running leading up to the race/time trail.
Yay. Have a 10k in 90 minutes and it's 30°C by far the hottest day of the year. It won't cool down until 8pm either. I was contemplating with attacking the 40:00 but not under these conditions. I'll still go for a new PR (which is 42:02): Let's hope I don't pull off a GrandInquisitor
edit: k, 41:59. That's a PR by 3 seconds. I started out at 40:00 pace but everyone around me and myself slowly dropped the speed. I still consistently passed a few runners and finished fast. But the heat affected me both phsyically and mentally and destroyed any chance I had for a greater PR which makes me a little sad because I really need to start marathon training now. Well, I'll probably try to run a fast 10k in the late fall after Berlin.
Today it is going to be over 100 F (37 C) from about 2 pm to 8 pm. It will still be 29 C (85 F) at 10:00 pm
Last year this is where I struggled. It was just hard for me to try to be running at 9 pm or so and fall asleep at a time where I could wake up fir work
Do people just try to cram in very long or very hard days on the weekend and be lighter in the week?
I'm a casual so i'm not interested in doing like 10x400 repeats or something like that if the answer is "try long runs on weekends and hard intervals during the weekdays". Maybe that is the best way to try to work around the heat
On June 09 2015 02:33 N.geNuity wrote: So who works around beating the heat here?
Today it is going to be over 100 F (37 C) from about 2 pm to 8 pm. It will still be 29 C (85 F) at 10:00 pm
Last year this is where I struggled. It was just hard for me to try to be running at 9 pm or so and fall asleep at a time where I could wake up fir work
Do people just try to cram in very long or very hard days on the weekend and be lighter in the week?
I'm a casual so i'm not interested in doing like 10x400 repeats or something like that if the answer is "try long runs on weekends and hard intervals during the weekdays". Maybe that is the best way to try to work around the heat
I usually just slow the pace down if necessary. someone told me a general guideline once but I forgot what it was exactly, I think it was something like for every few degrees over 80F slow by like 5/s a mile or something. So if it's 100F you'll want to be running at least 20/s slower per mile if not more for whatever training pace you are targeting.
Or just run as early as possible or late, sometimes that doesn't even help much.
On June 09 2015 02:33 N.geNuity wrote: So who works around beating the heat here?
Today it is going to be over 100 F (37 C) from about 2 pm to 8 pm. It will still be 29 C (85 F) at 10:00 pm
Last year this is where I struggled. It was just hard for me to try to be running at 9 pm or so and fall asleep at a time where I could wake up fir work
Do people just try to cram in very long or very hard days on the weekend and be lighter in the week?
I'm a casual so i'm not interested in doing like 10x400 repeats or something like that if the answer is "try long runs on weekends and hard intervals during the weekdays". Maybe that is the best way to try to work around the heat
I'm not living in a particular hot area but when it gets hot I just slow down on my easy run and simply run by effort. Hydration isn't an issue for me with anything under an hour. For long runs I plan ahead and get up early on sundays when I know it's going to be a hot day to be back home at least at 12 am. Workouts are shit though. I do them as late as possible on hot days or postpone if I know the next day is less warm. But then again anything over 25°C is uncomfortably hot for me.
On May 18 2015 15:07 L_Master wrote: Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy.
Next up on the meet list: YPang.
I'm jelly. Section 16 is a shitty name for a trail though.
Ha - it's a pretty well-known bit of trail around CO Springs, many thanks to L_Master for introducing me to it. He didn't mention that he brought a friend who pushed my arse all the way up the steep stuff. Beware his down-hill speed, too!!
It was fun to meet up IRL, 10/10 would do again (and hope that L_Master or any of the rest of you will consider letting me know if you're in Boulder/Denver!).
I'll pay you visit when I run Leaville.
Looking forward to it!! I assume sanity, and that you're going to be out here shortly for the marathon. (If insane, and doing the L100, that's cool, too)
On May 18 2015 15:07 L_Master wrote: Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy.
Next up on the meet list: YPang.
I'm jelly. Section 16 is a shitty name for a trail though.
Ha - it's a pretty well-known bit of trail around CO Springs, many thanks to L_Master for introducing me to it. He didn't mention that he brought a friend who pushed my arse all the way up the steep stuff. Beware his down-hill speed, too!!
It was fun to meet up IRL, 10/10 would do again (and hope that L_Master or any of the rest of you will consider letting me know if you're in Boulder/Denver!).
I'll pay you visit when I run Leaville.
Looking forward to it!! I assume sanity, and that you're going to be out here shortly for the marathon. (If insane, and doing the L100, that's cool, too)
Today was a nice day, despite the menacing weather this morning I had a great 80km and 1500m+ ride, slow pace but i'm starting to feel a bit fitter. And more importantly got my results from medschool this evening, and i passed the first year exam (only 180 out of 1700 people are selected). It feels good .
Concerning strava though i find that it overestimate denivelation a lot, is there any way to fix this? It says on strava that the ititinerary i made today was 2500m+ but in reality it's closer to 1500m+ i think.
On June 17 2015 05:46 Jetaap wrote: Today was a nice day, despite the menacing weather this morning I had a great 80km and 1500m+ ride, slow pace but i'm starting to feel a bit fitter. And more importantly got my results from medschool this evening, and i passed the first year exam (only 180 out of 1700 people are selected). It feels good .
Concerning strava though i find that it overestimate denivelation a lot, is there any way to fix this? It says on strava that the ititinerary i made today was 2500m+ but in reality it's closer to 1500m+ i think.
Nice ride, I love those longer HC climbs, jealous of how consistent some of the ones in France seem to be. Colorado has plenty of good 30-90 min climbs but they are usually a little more variable in grade.
That is really weird. Usually I feel strava is within a reasonable ballpark for me, but certainly from your ride it does seem crazy off. Looks like you had the roughly 1000m HC climb, and then some smaller stuff on the top followed by a long descent...so yea 1500m sounds about right. Maybe the phone is less trustworthy than a dedicated cycling computer like the Garmin or Joule GPS?
Yeah Grenoble is kind of a dream city in that regard, I can leave with my bike from my doorstep and in 10min i'm in the middle of the mountains, it's awesome :D. I've looked around to see what the issue with the gps was, apparently it's because in Europe they use a lower resolution database for elevation data than in the US, i wish there was a "smoothing" setting to get rid of this noise and get a more accurate picture how much i climb but i don't think it exists
so I did a 5k time trial today in a time trial series that one of the many splintered factions of my local running group does
none of the fastest guys showed up (i knew that in advance for like 2 of the 3 real fast guys) but it should be fairly accurate in length, just along a bike/running/walking path through a park though. Not quite like a 5 mile/8k that pretty was a 8.4 km measured by a pickup truck odometer lol.
I did 19:30, in probably the biggest positive split in the history of mankind. I believe I was at 9:00 at the 2.5 km, which should be fairly accurate as I did the first mile (marked on trail) in 5:38 or so. Too fast but I was hoping to drop a 18:45 or so running "alone", maybe faster if there was someone ahead of me. Suffice to say I died, even though I didn't feel too tired or hot. Just legs were tired. It is a hot area (91 F today), but I really didn't feel hot and I did take sunday-tuesday pretty light to try to go all out for this.
I have a tough time estimating my current fitness. But even little local races here and there for the 5 km distance doesn't have any good chunk of people. People really do the halfs and marathons and the mixtures of bike/run or triathlon. Ah well, another day.
so I did a 5k time trial today in a time trial series that one of the many splintered factions of my local running group does
none of the fastest guys showed up (i knew that in advance for like 2 of the 3 real fast guys) but it should be fairly accurate in length, just along a bike/running/walking path through a park though. Not quite like a 5 mile/8k that pretty was a 8.4 km measured by a pickup truck odometer lol.
I did 19:30, in probably the biggest positive split in the history of mankind. I believe I was at 9:00 at the 2.5 km, which should be fairly accurate as I did the first mile (marked on trail) in 5:38 or so. Too fast but I was hoping to drop a 18:45 or so running "alone", maybe faster if there was someone ahead of me. Suffice to say I died, even though I didn't feel too tired or hot. Just legs were tired. It is a hot area (91 F today), but I really didn't feel hot and I did take sunday-tuesday pretty light to try to go all out for this.
I have a tough time estimating my current fitness. But even little local races here and there for the 5 km distance doesn't have any good chunk of people. People really do the halfs and marathons and the mixtures of bike/run or triathlon. Ah well, another day.
91 costs a lot. Even more if it's sunny or humid. I'd guess that alone is worth 19:00 flat, then pacing probably another 15s minimum. Be pretty surprised if you can't run 18:45, and 18:15-18:30 wouldn't totally shock me.
On May 10 2015 20:15 Meat wrote: Bought new shoes in a runners shop a few weeks ago, asics gt-2000 3, pretty sure they are causing knee pain. I didn't have sore knees before, but now they are weak and sensitive after a run. So I'm having my doubts about that over pronating correction and soft bedding.
Did you increase distance or pace recently? What shoes did you wear before?
I went for a 15km run yesterday and it went much better. Pretty sure the problem was that I changed to a heel landing in these new shoes, so I'm going for more of a mid foot landing now.
Disclaimer: The following is partially anecdotal advice without having done proper research. If it works, good. But please don't focus too hard on how your foot lands. There are elite runners who heel strike (eg Kimetto has a slight heel strike at one foot). What's really important is that your feet don't land in front of your centre of mass because if they do you (a) automatically lose some momentum and (b) increase the force of impact which is already really high at running. What you can do is to count your steps per minute. A high cadence usually improves your running form. 180 steps/minute is a good guideline but getting to 170 should be sufficient enough.
Thanks, I've been more conscience about my stride and I can't remember the last time my knees hurt.
Currently i'm training to run a HM on July 18, but I still need to find one :D I'm looking for a site that shows races in Croatia, Bosnia or perhaps Slovenia. But I couldn't find much besides mynextrun.com and some insane trail runs, either didn't have suitable options.
so I'm just starting my marathon build again, running Marine Corps in DC in the fall. I've been consistently running 20-25mpw for the past couple months and long run paces are in the high 7/low 8:mile which is definitely faster than last year. Following the same training program that I followed last year since I had success last year just didn't end up having a good race. I'll peak with a 22 mile run about 3 weeks or so before the marathon in late September with the race in mid/late Oct. Barring injury or issues I hope to get up into the 40-50mpw range for a fair part of August/September.
I've also switched to running almost exclusively in flatter shoes, (Adidas Adios Boosts) and so far it's been good and actually I can feel my form has improved as well. I used to run in very cushioned shoes and while that protected my feet a bit more, it was much harder to run with good economic form which led to slower paces/more work for my body on long runs. I'm a big fan of the boosts, I might try out the ultra boosts at some point but they run pretty expensive ($180 I think?) and they are pretty cushioned I think.
Registered for a mountain race. Will be 7km down and then 7km up, a temperature of 30 'C so this should be fun. Avarage angle is about 6%, with a hard uphill part of 400 meters of 22.5%. Does anybody have experience with running mountains? Looking for some advice, I understand I have to take mini steps and don't lean forward going uphill and don't lean back going down. Currently I'm training by running bridges, as Holland is extremely flat.
TT on day one was a pretty rolling one at about 75 ft/mile of elevation. Just under 300W for 30:30 time, but got a little carried away at the start...was on 315W through 10 mins. Still good power, better than target of 290W. Finished 5th, about 1:20 back. I'll take it though, as it was on a road bike with no aerobars, aero wheels, skinsuit, helmet, etc.
Day 2 was a circuit race, about half on pavement, half on dirt. 3 laps of a 6M circuit. 15s intermediate time bonus and 45/30/15 for overall podium spots. The last 400m was an uphill dirt sprint. Finished 7th, but was plenty satisfied. Would have been right in there for the wind if not for being more tentative through the 6 90 degree dirt turns leading into the finish. Wasn't as gutsy as I needed to be to keep small gaps from opening up at the sprint. Overall though I'm pleased as I felt in total control of the race. I was able to chase down two breaks that got a modest gap (30s or so), and was easily able to follow moves and pace changes staying under redline.
On June 28 2015 06:29 L_Master wrote: Race going fairly well so far. + Show Spoiler +
TT on day one was a pretty rolling one at about 75 ft/mile of elevation. Just under 300W for 30:30 time, but got a little carried away at the start...was on 315W through 10 mins. Still good power, better than target of 290W. Finished 5th, about 1:20 back. I'll take it though, as it was on a road bike with no aerobars, aero wheels, skinsuit, helmet, etc.
Day 2 was a circuit race, about half on pavement, half on dirt. 3 laps of a 6M circuit. 15s intermediate time bonus and 45/30/15 for overall podium spots. The last 400m was an uphill dirt sprint. Finished 7th, but was plenty satisfied. Would have been right in there for the wind if not for being more tentative through the 6 90 degree dirt turns leading into the finish. Wasn't as gutsy as I needed to be to keep small gaps from opening up at the sprint. Overall though I'm pleased as I felt in total control of the race. I was able to chase down two breaks that got a modest gap (30s or so), and was easily able to follow moves and pace changes staying under redline.
On June 28 2015 06:29 L_Master wrote: Race going fairly well so far. + Show Spoiler +
TT on day one was a pretty rolling one at about 75 ft/mile of elevation. Just under 300W for 30:30 time, but got a little carried away at the start...was on 315W through 10 mins. Still good power, better than target of 290W. Finished 5th, about 1:20 back. I'll take it though, as it was on a road bike with no aerobars, aero wheels, skinsuit, helmet, etc.
Day 2 was a circuit race, about half on pavement, half on dirt. 3 laps of a 6M circuit. 15s intermediate time bonus and 45/30/15 for overall podium spots. The last 400m was an uphill dirt sprint. Finished 7th, but was plenty satisfied. Would have been right in there for the wind if not for being more tentative through the 6 90 degree dirt turns leading into the finish. Wasn't as gutsy as I needed to be to keep small gaps from opening up at the sprint. Overall though I'm pleased as I felt in total control of the race. I was able to chase down two breaks that got a modest gap (30s or so), and was easily able to follow moves and pace changes staying under redline.
Hopefully good legs for climbing day tomorrow.
Good luck, L_Master!!
Results out now. 6th on the day, sitting 1:32 back in GC. Just hoping for good legs tomorrow, and I think I podium spot should be feasible with an outside shot of winning. Really wishing I was already at 60kg
What race? What am I missing? And you're crushing the competition? That's pretty darn impressive for someone who hasn't been cycling for that long. May your legs stay be strong today.
On June 28 2015 17:44 Don_Julio wrote: What race? What am I missing? And you're crushing the competition? That's pretty darn impressive for someone who hasn't been cycling for that long. May your legs stay be strong today.
Boulder Stage Race.
Today was a bit rough. A hill climb in sections. First 5 miles was gentle 3% rolling grade, then the fun starts with 4.5 miles of 10-20% grades, averaging about 11%. After that, you get to do extremely hilly dirt (not much net grade though, about 1%), then a short 2 mile descent, then another 2 miles of 8%.
Plan was cruise with the pack till the start of the steep stuff (Mags), ride at a nice, steady 90% of threshold there, steady across the dirt, and unload whatever is left on the last climb. Didn't happen that way. Started of right around that 90% mark for the first 2.5 miles, and felt terrific. Smooth, easy, strong. Was almost debating whether to step it up and start pushing more like 95%. Then stuff got bad quick, over the next two miles the power just went out of my legs. It always felt in control, but the legs were just dead. Never really came back the rest of the day. For the rest of it, it was all I could do to get out 220-250W (80-88%) on the uphill portions.
I can't be certain, but I think it was the grinding (very low cadence, like 40-60 rpm) that did me in. I usually prefer 100-105 and going strong that slow probably just sapped my muscles.
Ended up finishing in 1:46:xx, about 7 minutes back of the days winner. 8th on the day, ended up 9th in GC 6:30 back of winner. Disappointing last day, but very positive overall. Given full TT "goodies" I'd have won on day one by a couple minutes at least, day 2 was for all purposes great as well and may well have won there too if not for not having the aggression of a few of the other guys through dirt corners.
And, while I'm making some nice progress with weight, down to 151 now, I still have least 15 more lbs to go.
Nice job L_Master! Must have been really fun competing in a stage event like that. Cool to hear some insight into how a cycling event goes.
Oh endurance events...seemingly so simple...and yet so hard. Can't tell you how many times in a running race how quickly I've gone from feeling so good and in control to so terrible. Finding that fine line where you can work it, but not too hard that you crash is literally a skill in itself when in comes to endurance events. After three years of running now I still find myself working on proper pacing in races and workouts.
Can't tell you how many times in a running race how quickly I've gone from feeling so good and in control to so terrible. Finding that fine line where you can work it, but not too hard that you crash is literally a skill in itself when in comes to endurance events. After three years of running now I still find myself working on proper pacing in races and workouts.
It definitely is a skill, and one that can always be refined.
This one was much more dramatic though, this was like going out for a tempo at maybe 20s a mile slower than normal tempo pace, and having the wheels come off after 20 mins. Not something that you would normally expect to have happen, especially when it already feels like a good day.
Of running doesn't have situations like cycling where you're suddenly supposed to run at half your normal cadence. I'll know for sure when I start doing my Peak specific training over the next 5 weeks. If I have the same experience again at power levels that should be plenty easy, that definitely tells me what the issue is.
Hey guys - I'm training to become a Police Officer and one of my goals right now is to run a sub 10 minute, 1.5 mile run (or 2.4 km).
I've searched all over online and have come to the conclusion that I'm not supposed to be running 1.5 miles every day? I currently run this distance in 12 minutes but need help cutting this down into splits.
There's just so much advice all over Google and I'm not sure which one to follow. Anyone on TL.net have proven experience of improving their time with specific training?
I've been doing Insanity the work out for a couple of weeks and that actually help cut my time down from 13.5 minutes to 12 minutes for my 1.5 mile run.
But in order to really get under 10 minutes, I believe I could really use runner specific advice.
On June 30 2015 13:10 jjun212 wrote: Serious inquiry - would even love to accept PMs
Hey guys - I'm training to become a Police Officer and one of my goals right now is to run a sub 10 minute, 1.5 mile run (or 2.4 km).
I've searched all over online and have come to the conclusion that I'm not supposed to be running 1.5 miles every day? I currently run this distance in 12 minutes but need help cutting this down into splits.
There's just so much advice all over Google and I'm not sure which one to follow. Anyone on TL.net have proven experience of improving their time with specific training?
I've been doing Insanity the work out for a couple of weeks and that actually help cut my time down from 13.5 minutes to 12 minutes for my 1.5 mile run.
But in order to really get under 10 minutes, I believe I could really use runner specific advice.
Thank you guys!
No you shouldn't be running 1.5M every day. You should be running much more than that
Now, that doesn't mean go out and run 100 miles per week straightaway. Running, at distances greater than about 800m (1/2 mile) is almost entirely dependent on ones aerobic fitness. All the important adaptations for running faster: increased number of mitochondria, increased LV stroke volume, increased capillary density, increased aerobic enzymes, improved lung function, etc. are all trained most efficiently by simply running more at an EASY pace.
This is key. Your general runs right now should be 2-5 miles in length, at a pace of around 10:00-11:00 minute miles. Faster than this is NOT good. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Your goal at this stage should be developing a good aerobic base, which is what this easier running achieves, Not only will this massively improve your fitness, it will pave the way for your body to handle harder workouts without getting broken down or suffering from injuries.
I'd shoot to progress by 3-5 more miles each week, building to somewhere in the 30-40 mile per week range. Don't hesitate to repeat a week if the previous week was especially demanding. Depending on your talent and natural response I'd expect that if you did that over a six to eight week period you'd be running anywhere from 9:30-10:30 for 2400m before we even start adding to in the faster stuff, the "icing on the cake" so to speak.
My final question would be to ask about height, weight, and BF% if you happen to know it.
On June 28 2015 00:00 Meat wrote: Registered for a mountain race. Will be 7km down and then 7km up, a temperature of 30 'C so this should be fun. Avarage angle is about 6%, with a hard uphill part of 400 meters of 22.5%. Does anybody have experience with running mountains? Looking for some advice, I understand I have to take mini steps and don't lean forward going uphill and don't lean back going down. Currently I'm training by running bridges, as Holland is extremely flat.
Ahoy there! I might be able to help!
So, you have two tasks to improve your mountain running: inclines & heat. If you do not have mountains nearby, you can do STAIR WORKOUTS! Find a steep set of stairs and run up and down them, keeping track of the total accumulated elevation gain. My coach in college (MN, USA, very flat) used to do stair workouts and treadmill 12%'s in preparation for the Pike's Peak double. Running the same set of stairs again and again, or treadmill work may be boring, but it builds strength and leg lifting form that you want to have for running steep hills.
Heat really hurts, especially if you are not used to it. Sauna's can simulate the heat, and get your body ready for dealing with elevated temperatures. In high heat make sure to drink excessive amounts of water, electrolyte, and use salt pills if needed. Do you have a running hat/good clothing/trail shoes to help you keep comfortable?
Which race is it? I'm excited to hear more about your training and racing experience!
On June 28 2015 00:00 Meat wrote: Registered for a mountain race. Will be 7km down and then 7km up, a temperature of 30 'C so this should be fun. Avarage angle is about 6%, with a hard uphill part of 400 meters of 22.5%. Does anybody have experience with running mountains? Looking for some advice, I understand I have to take mini steps and don't lean forward going uphill and don't lean back going down. Currently I'm training by running bridges, as Holland is extremely flat.
Ahoy there! I might be able to help!
So, you have two tasks to improve your mountain running: inclines & heat. If you do not have mountains nearby, you can do STAIR WORKOUTS! Find a steep set of stairs and run up and down them, keeping track of the total accumulated elevation gain. My coach in college (MN, USA, very flat) used to do stair workouts and treadmill 12%'s in preparation for the Pike's Peak double. Running the same set of stairs again and again, or treadmill work may be boring, but it builds strength and leg lifting form that you want to have for running steep hills.
Heat really hurts, especially if you are not used to it. Sauna's can simulate the heat, and get your body ready for dealing with elevated temperatures. In high heat make sure to drink excessive amounts of water, electrolyte, and use salt pills if needed. Do you have a running hat/good clothing/trail shoes to help you keep comfortable?
Which race is it? I'm excited to hear more about your training and racing experience!
Stair training is a good idea, I will do that this weekend. After that I can't do intensive training anymore as the race is next weekend (12 July). As for my training, I've been doing light weight training (15-25 reps) and I've been running the highest bridge in the area.
Luckily the current temperature in Holland is 30' C so the conditions are a bit comparable. I don't have special trail clothing and no idea how much of this race is off-road actually. This is their website: http://www.sljeme-maraton.com/ , it's the hill a bit north of Zagreb. Found some pictures http://www.aksljeme.com/2009/07/07/drugarice-posadimo-cvijece-tud-se-divlja-svinja-krece/ and it looks like the surface is pretty solid with a lot of shade so I think it should be fine with regular gear.
How many km per week? If you've done a good amount you shouldn't be in too much trouble at a 14km race. Make sure you're properly warmed up for the downhill part. Downhill feels easy but it can be really taxing for your muscles. Stay relaxed and don't break too much but enough to never lose control. The uphill part will be tough. Don't be ashamed to walk the steep sections. It can be more efficient and isn't that much slower than running. Elites do it too albeit at much steeper slopes than us mere mortals.
The race looks like a pretty fun event. How did you end up running in Croatia?
Registered for a mountain race. Will be 7km down and then 7km up, a temperature of 30 'C so this should be fun. Avarage angle is about 6%, with a hard uphill part of 400 meters of 22.5%. Does anybody have experience with running mountains? Looking for some advice, I understand I have to take mini steps and don't lean forward going uphill and don't lean back going down. Currently I'm training by running bridges, as Holland is extremely flat.
So, you have two tasks to improve your mountain running: inclines & heat. If you do not have mountains nearby, you can do STAIR WORKOUTS! Find a steep set of stairs and run up and down them, keeping track of the total accumulated elevation gain. My coach in college (MN, USA, very flat) used to do stair workouts and treadmill 12%'s in preparation for the Pike's Peak double. Running the same set of stairs again and again, or treadmill work may be boring, but it builds strength and leg lifting form that you want to have for running steep hills.
Heat really hurts, especially if you are not used to it. Sauna's can simulate the heat, and get your body ready for dealing with elevated temperatures. In high heat make sure to drink excessive amounts of water, electrolyte, and use salt pills if needed. Do you have a running hat/good clothing/trail shoes to help you keep comfortable?
Which race is it? I'm excited to hear more about your training and racing experience!
Stair training is a good idea, I will do that this weekend. After that I can't do intensive training anymore as the race is next weekend (12 July). As for my training, I've been doing light weight training (15-25 reps) and I've been running the highest bridge in the area.
Luckily the current temperature in Holland is 30' C so the conditions are a bit comparable. I don't have special trail clothing and no idea how much of this race is off-road actually. This is their website: http://www.sljeme-maraton.com/ , it's the hill a bit north of Zagreb. Found some pictures http://www.aksljeme.com/2009/07/07/drugarice-posadimo-cvijece-tud-se-divlja-svinja-krece/ and it looks like the surface is pretty solid with a lot of shade so I think it should be fine with regular gear.
That's quite soon:good luck, don't over-train right before the race, have fun, and let us know how it goes, for sure. Those wild boar medals look awesome!
On July 02 2015 01:08 Don_Julio wrote: How many km per week? If you've done a good amount you shouldn't be in too much trouble at a 14km race. Make sure you're properly warmed up for the downhill part. Downhill feels easy but it can be really taxing for your muscles. Stay relaxed and don't break too much but enough to never lose control. The uphill part will be tough. Don't be ashamed to walk the steep sections. It can be more efficient and isn't that much slower than running. Elites do it too albeit at much steeper slopes than us mere mortals.
The race looks like a pretty fun event. How did you end up running in Croatia?
The last couple months I've been doing about 30km a week with 3 runs, with 1 being a really short jog. Other runs vary from 8 to 18km. Was actually training to run another HM in July but apparently there are none. Running in Croatia because I will be there on vacation and I really like to run races, I've only done a few so far but noticed they keep me focused / motivated so I figured it will be nice to do one in a foreign country. Running doesn't seem to be very popular in Croatia and this was pretty much the only available race, would have rather signed up for something more flat but now I'm really excited for it! Bought some isotoner gel today for the uphill part. Would you recommend drinking that fast with a bit of water for a quick boost or would you add it too your whole water supply and gradually drink some over the whole race?
On July 02 2015 03:16 mtmentat wrote:
That's quite soon:good luck, don't over-train right before the race, have fun, and let us know how it goes, for sure. Those wild boar medals look awesome!
I'd argue that you don't need nutrition for any race under two hours. However if you feel you need it, use it after 50-50 minutes with some water. If I understand the Croatian on the race's website correctly there are are plenty of aid stations so you really don't need to bring any water (or food). Btw you should try gel during a training run at least once. A few people have trouble digesting it. Don't work yourself up too much about hydration. Just make sure to drink enough the day before the race (no need to overdo it). Your body has the amazing capability of telling you when it wants liquid. So drink when you're thirsty during the race and you'll be fine. Hey, don't overthink this. You've done enough running to be well prepared. Running in foreign countries is great and you'll have a wonderful time. Enjoy yourself. (I'm jelly)
Agreeing with Don_Julio - I hope I didn't scare you with "drink ALL the water." I would disagree just a bit, and maybe say drink water just a bit preemptively. i.e., drink some water at the aid station that is before the section of the race where you would have become thirsty.
Don_Julio - are you coming out here for the Leadville 100? How's your training going??
Haha. I was joking about Leadville because you and L_Master ran together. And running one of those crazy races in the Rockies is the most likely but still unprobable scenarios I'll ever visit Colorado unfortunately. But you know maybe it isn't a matter of "if" but "when" I start running races for nutjobs. I'm preparing for my first Marathon atm so I'm far far away from the Ultra distance. Sorry to disappoint.
On July 02 2015 05:45 Don_Julio wrote: I'd argue that you don't need nutrition for any race under two hours. However if you feel you need it, use it after 50-50 minutes with some water. If I understand the Croatian on the race's website correctly there are are plenty of aid stations so you really don't need to bring any water (or food). Btw you should try gel during a training run at least once. A few people have trouble digesting it. Don't work yourself up too much about hydration. Just make sure to drink enough the day before the race (no need to overdo it). Your body has the amazing capability of telling you when it wants liquid. So drink when you're thirsty during the race and you'll be fine. Hey, don't overthink this. You've done enough running to be well prepared. Running in foreign countries is great and you'll have a wonderful time. Enjoy yourself. (I'm jelly)
Ye I am probably overthinking this a bit too much. Got intimated by the 3 difficult factors: heat, climb and height. My shape should be good enough to handle that though. Sunday I will do my last run (except 1 or 2 day very light runs) and I'll shorten it to 8km in a hilly area and try the gel to see what effect is has on my body.
Had an odd experience the day before yesterday after running home through the city from salsa class. It definately was still above 25 'C and probably closer to 30 than 25, got exhausted and reached my 12km goal at an earlier point than expected (blame you google maps!). Finished at central station and while doing some stretching the last tram home arrived within 5 minutes so decided to take that home. I was doing fine, just tired and obviously sweating but nothing out of the ordinary from what you would expect on such a hot day, heart rate was down to around 110-120. So I get in that tram and within seconds my face turned completely red and sweat/condense ran down my whole body, worse than in a steam bath. When I ran my hand over my face it was completely soaked. Turned a lot of heads in that tram and was physically very demanding and uncomfortable.
I'm doing a triathlon next Sunday, and it's going to be around 36°C (97F), that's going to be brutal. At least I'll get to enjoy the swimming! (The worst thing is that it's going to be humid as well...)
Had an odd experience the day before yesterday after running home through the city from salsa class. It definately was still above 25 'C and probably closer to 30 than 25, got exhausted and reached my 12km goal at an earlier point than expected (blame you google maps!). Finished at central station and while doing some stretching the last tram home arrived within 5 minutes so decided to take that home. I was doing fine, just tired and obviously sweating but nothing out of the ordinary from what you would expect on such a hot day, heart rate was down to around 110-120. So I get in that tram and within seconds my face turned completely red and sweat/condense ran down my whole body, worse than in a steam bath. When I ran my hand over my face it was completely soaked. Turned a lot of heads in that tram and was physically very demanding and uncomfortable.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. The fucking sahara winds make it any activity very demanding. The tram was climatized I guess? I suppose the sudden change of temperature fucked up your body. Did you drink after the run? Have a nice vacation and go on to crush show the Croatians how you run!
On July 04 2015 03:38 Jetaap wrote: I'm doing a triathlon next Sunday, and it's going to be around 36°C (97F), that's going to be brutal. At least I'll get to enjoy the swimming! (The worst thing is that it's going to be humid as well...)
How bad was it? _________
Did anyone watch Le Tour today? Was a sick race and probably the most intense flat stage I've ever watched. _________
Finished a (all easy) 77km week. Most distance I've ever run and it felt pretty good. Will tune it down a little but add two medium effort runs. I should be ready to start my rather short training plan afterwards and I'm fucking ready.
Did anyone watch Le Tour today? Was a sick race and probably the most intense flat stage I've ever watched.
Zzzzzz.
Don't get me wrong, it was exciting to watch. Compelling.
But it also had way to much of the luck aspect that is a little frustrating in bike racing. "Damn, some guy crashed in front of me, now I get to lose 1:30 to the other top guys". Yes, they should have been in the front of the race to better avoid problems from crashes, but a crash + subsequent puncture is still pretty bad luck.
It makes for a better stage overall, but a much less interesting tour overall unless the two make up a good bit of time the next 6 days.
On July 04 2015 03:38 Jetaap wrote: I'm doing a triathlon next Sunday, and it's going to be around 36°C (97F), that's going to be brutal. At least I'll get to enjoy the swimming! (The worst thing is that it's going to be humid as well...)
How bad was it?
The swimming part (1500m) went OK, considering that i swam only 5 times to prepare for it i was happy enough of my 32min time. I think that with more preparation i could reach a decent time. The Mountain bike was extremely tough though, quite technical and on top of that i realised at the start of the race that i couldn't lock my right pedal . I also lacked mountain bike training, so i lost quite a bit of time here. It was only 44km but way harder than anything I've ever done on a bike! i barely finished in time to be allowed to run the last part but the 2 guys i was doing this with were behind me and were gokg to be disqualified so i gave up. Now i kind of regret not trying to finish the race but dealing with this mechanical issue on my bike from the start took a toll on my morale. I was also not too confident on my running abilities as I was unable to train due to issues with my knee Overall not a bad experience at all, xterra is a nice concept, it was a very tough race for a first timer like me but i still did the best among our group!
Started running in March this year, quit smoking for a while and managed to run a half-marathon in may, kinda proud of myself since I never ran that distance before.
Because it was such a great experience I think about running the munich marathon in october. However I dont think its possible for me. I didnt really run alot lately and at the moment its far to hot outside. also going to have a surgery in september.
Speaking of the fall season I think I'll do a half marathon in october. Unsure of my time goals.
I think my last post here was being disappointed in a 5k time trial but I don't even think I'll do a race until october (some other time trials are around but I don't know if I'd race them)
I now made my way to be in 35-40 miles per week and, more importantly, am running those miles much smarter. Should be much better for longevity. Probably try 45 mpw in august and 50 mpw in september.
Trying to get back into running and I've been having recurrent hip issues. Every time I get past ~3 miles or so I get this pain on the outside of my hip bone, outside the widest part of my hips. Usually it's on the right side but occasionally it's both. It's frustrating as hell because I have the capacity to run for longer but every time I hit this pain I have to stop out of fear of injury. Best I can tell is that it's bursitis or tendinitis or something, definitely something soft tissue.
I know my legs are roughly equal in length, I've tried minimalist shoes to super soft shoes, I think my form is ok(?), but the pain always comes. My fear is that this is an old injury I got from running a 50k about 10 years ago where I had really bad hip pain by the finish. The longest I had run before that race was a 8k :|, not smart, I know.
Mt Evans Hill Climb today. 28 miles of 5% grade going from 7,500 to 14,200 ft.
Happy with how I rode, especially for still being in the middle of solid training weeks. Just not happy with between the ears. Let 4 guys up the road about 20 mins in as I didn't trust my ability and thought they were making an overly aggressive move for such a long, high race; and they put about 6 mins on me over the first half. Faster than everybody over the 2nd half though, just too far back to matter. Looking at strava afterwords, turns out that working in the group they rode same w/kg I did, but group dynamics took them up much faster.
What could have been. Still overall satisfied, unless there is some sleeper I don't know about or one of the guys ahead of me had a terrible day today I've got as good a shot as anyone to win on Pikes Peak. Excited for two Sundays from now
On July 25 2015 22:30 ZeaL. wrote: Trying to get back into running and I've been having recurrent hip issues. Every time I get past ~3 miles or so I get this pain on the outside of my hip bone, outside the widest part of my hips. Usually it's on the right side but occasionally it's both. It's frustrating as hell because I have the capacity to run for longer but every time I hit this pain I have to stop out of fear of injury. Best I can tell is that it's bursitis or tendinitis or something, definitely something soft tissue.
I know my legs are roughly equal in length, I've tried minimalist shoes to super soft shoes, I think my form is ok(?), but the pain always comes. My fear is that this is an old injury I got from running a 50k about 10 years ago where I had really bad hip pain by the finish. The longest I had run before that race was a 8k :|, not smart, I know.
Anyone ever experience/overcome this?
Giving medical advice over the internet is difficult. However my best guess is that you need to strengthen your hips, glutes and back. Runners are chronically weak in these areas and strength training goes a long way.
On July 26 2015 08:29 L_Master wrote: Mt Evans Hill Climb today. 28 miles of 5% grade going from 7,500 to 14,200 ft.
Happy with how I rode, especially for still being in the middle of solid training weeks. Just not happy with between the ears. Let 4 guys up the road about 20 mins in as I didn't trust my ability and thought they were making an overly aggressive move for such a long, high race; and they put about 6 mins on me over the first half. Faster than everybody over the 2nd half though, just too far back to matter. Looking at strava afterwords, turns out that working in the group they rode same w/kg I did, but group dynamics took them up much faster.
What could have been. Still overall satisfied, unless there is some sleeper I don't know about or one of the guys ahead of me had a terrible day today I've got as good a shot as anyone to win on Pikes Peak. Excited for two Sundays from now
I have to say it again: That's some impressive stuff you are doing in your new career. I enjoy reading about your races and they sound like a lot of fun. Now it's time to win some of them though! ______________
Personal sob story incoming: Experienced some minor discomfort in my right knee last week. It built up to pain over the week. Only ran two times for less than 10k and very slowly. The running wasn't really affected but the pain increased afterwards. It's not unbearable though. I saw a doctor to today and he diagnosed a minor irritation of cartilage-tissue next to my patella. Prescribed me an anti-inflammatory drug and physiotherapy. He told that I can run the marathon but have to reduce my weekly distance from >70k to 50k. I expected much worse like ITBS but it's still a bummer for my marathon goals. I'm not sure how I can get ready with 50k weeks and only two months left.
nothing special on my front, but I am retiring my pair of mizuno wave inspire 9s, which I ran comfortably in through to 647 miles of running on them. Had a previous pair of 500+ miles on them
That shoe was the shit. I tried on the mizuno wave inspire 11s, and that feels pretty similar and good. I'll probably buy 2 pairs of those whenever they become the "old" shoes in like 1.5-2 years time.
Last post in this thread I just said I would probably do the half marathon in october; now, I definitely will do it! (barring any life complications)
ninjaedit:
also, a lot more EPO and doping stuff surfacing in the news right now
Got back from vacation last week and the trail run was awesome! There were about 250 participants and I started somewhere at 3/4th of the group. A bit too far back as it started with a downhill part where you could barely pass anyone and I had to run with the break on. Definately a lesson learned. After 1 or 2 km the downhill part got wide and the group spreaded. A few miles of easy downhill running till we got to a small trail. The trail was very narrow, 1 person wide, and some people were very cautious and started to walk, I had to walk too for about 1km as passing was irresponsible (some people did though). Meanwhile I was thinking about my time getting screwed.. http://i.imgur.com/16jdWKg.jpg
After that cave the stairway to hell started. An infinite (well about 100m high) stair made out of rocks. for an impression. Insane climb and totally unprepared for that! After that the nice uphill part of 23' with a nice sunshine of about 35 ' C. There it became clear I should not care about the time at all anymore and just enjoy the experience.
Ran through fields with cows, went through barb wired fences, lost the track etc. Walked the steep uphill parts and ran where possible. Managed to pull out one last run before the finish, even though it was pretty steep uphill. Finished the 14km in ultimately 1:50:53 http://runkeeper.com/user/gijoy/activity/613340844?tripIdBase36=a560to&activityList=false& Overall an awesome experience and definately recommended and scored an awesome medal
On August 05 2015 05:48 Meat wrote: Got back from vacation last week and the trail run was awesome! There were about 250 participants and I started somewhere at 3/4th of the group. A bit too far back as it started with a downhill part where you could barely pass anyone and I had to run with the break on. Definately a lesson learned. After 1 or 2 km the downhill part got wide and the group spreaded. A few miles of easy downhill running till we got to a small trail. The trail was very narrow, 1 person wide, and some people were very cautious and started to walk, I had to walk too for about 1km as passing was irresponsible (some people did though). Meanwhile I was thinking about my time getting screwed.. http://i.imgur.com/16jdWKg.jpg
After that cave the stairway to hell started. An infinite (well about 100m high) stair made out of rocks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D59aLt9GdZQ#t=220 for an impression. Insane climb and totally unprepared for that! After that the nice uphill part of 23' with a nice sunshine of about 35 ' C. There it became clear I should not care about the time at all anymore and just enjoy the experience.
Ran through fields with cows, went through barb wired fences, lost the track etc. Walked the steep uphill parts and ran where possible. Managed to pull out one last run before the finish, even though it was pretty steep uphill. Finished the 14km in ultimately 1:50:53 http://runkeeper.com/user/gijoy/activity/613340844?tripIdBase36=a560to&activityList=false& Overall an awesome experience and definately recommended and scored an awesome medal
Sounds like quite the race, and I'm going to assume pretty nice views as well. Feel your pain on getting out slow on singletrack...you can get incredibly stuck and either be unable to pass or have to work like hell to move up through the field. That part is not so fun.
Come to Colorado and I'll show you the real stairway to hell. 800m of elevation gain over a 1500m distance.
Decent legs, but definitely not great ones. Was able to get onto the podium in third though, so that's a start. Might have been second had I not thought the guy in front of me was a girl not part of my race. Can;t guarantee it, but I didn't kick like crazy.
Definitely feel like I under-performed relative to what I should be capable of. Based on FTP and expected altitude loss even losing 15% I should be able to do 250-260W/1:24 ish for this climb on the right day, and managed just 235 today.
The Bad: Late start meant no time to warm up, which kinda sucks when people are throwing around 5/wkg in the first 10 minutes of the race. Had to drop back, was was worried today would be a total disaster, but after about 25 minutes I was able to stabilize into a rhythm. That cost me quite a bit.
Other than that, I think in hindsight I really needed more long tempo in a heavy gear, altitude plays a role for sure, but the grinding at sub 70rpm just wears down my power after 45+ minutes. I did some, but really think I would have benefited with some long stuff at 270W and 60rpm.
March through May - Slacked off here and instead of continuing to eat well actually put on 5lbs instead of losing 5.
For the season overall I can't complain too hard. Sure, I'm a little disappointed with the overall lack of results and yes, had I been more focused I could already be in the low 60kg range instead of 68kg, but overall I made solid strides in general fitness and body composition on the season. Almost an 11% gain in FTP while losing 12lbs from where I was in December is still good. From an FTP and power/weight standoint I'm set up well to be anywhere from good to ridiculous next season. Lots more to improve next season and over the winter too, especially when it comes to anaerobic and sprint power and just racing significantly more for experience and development.
All in all 2015 was a good campaign, I did what I set out to do in terms of getting my feet wet with racing while building a strong base and engine. 2016 is all about developing into a true racer and learning how to compete. Looking forward to that next chapter!
But now, a few chill days, and then slowly firing back up the running engine for a serious crack at 16:xx 5k sometime in Febuary.
Hello TL! I return to necro this thread, Arthas-like. I've been MIA for a long time, I know. I'm glad to see its still ticking along.
I'm not sure I know enough cycling to correctly interpret your race recap, L_Master, but it looks to me like you futzed up the tactics a bit on this Pikes Peak race and still managed a third place finish. Most important, it sounds like you had a good time. R.e. your reflections on the season as a whole, I'm reminded of a Mark Wetmore quote my coach brought to the attention of his charges recently: "The key to becoming great isn't found on the edges of diet, science, or technology. The key is consistent, uninterrupted training." It sounds like you're on the way to becoming a pretty formidable racer!
But just out of curiosity, why did you shut it down after this particular race? Also, how goes the running campaign?
As for my own running, I'm rapidly approaching what I think of as the Time of Judgement, aka fall racing season. The Edmonton half goes down a week from today, and then the Kelowna full meal deal on Thanksgiving (that's October 12 to you American philistines out there.) I'm shooting for a 1:11 next weekend and dreaming about a 2:30 in Kelowna.
I think 1:11 is a pretty realistic goal. My PB right now, set in May, is 1:12:58, but that was on a harder course than I’ll run in Edmonton, the last half was a solo time-trial, and, most important, I’ve put in a bunch of good training since then. Been running lots of tempos in the 3:20-3:25 min/km range, which is around where I need to be. I’ll also have the benefit of a good group to work with. Two other guys I train with will be trying to run that time, so if all goes well we’ll have some competitive juices pushing us faster.
One in particular, my friend Chris, will be a real challenge. He already ran 1:11 earlier this year on an unseasonably warm day in Vancouver. I figure if I can stick with him I should be in pretty good shape, and I’ve been hanging with him pretty good when we work out together. On days when I’m feeling particularly strong, I dream about passing him in the last 5k. But he’s running really well right now, and he’s a tough son of a bitch, so if I run fast and still don’t beat him I won’t feel any shame.
Speaking of Chris, he convinced me to race my first-ever trail relay race a few months back. The Sinister 7 is an ultramarathon in southern Alberta. We ran its 100 miles as a seven-man relay team, but you can do it solo if you’re a true masochist. The top team spot is traditionally a duel between the fast teams from Edmonton and Calgary. This year we managed to win, despite Calgary bringing some pretty big guns to bear: a former Olympian who also holds the provincial 5k record, a likely future Olympian (1:07 half at age 22; should be good for 2:10-2:15 eventually, which is fast enough to make Team Canada), and the defending national masters cross-country champion. I also set a record for my leg of the race and beat my opponent, an evil bearded Calgarian who ran sub-32 for 10k in university, by nine minutes. This was particularly satisfying as, at the start of the leg, he was heard to exclaim “I’m going to catch that little shit and pull his pants down!”
But my pants stayed up.
The only real drawback of Sin 7 was the small detail that the racing is absolutely terrible and agonizing and I hate it. My leg started with a preposterous climb straight up a ski hill and got worse from there. There was none of the sense of speed or grace or determination that I like in a road race. It was just pure suffering from start to finish. I don’t know if I’ll ever come around, but I’ll probably forget enough of the details in time for next year’s race. It was certainly a fun weekend.
So that’s a bit about where I’m at. Next weekend should be a super fun time. I’ll post my results here shortly after the race and write a race report when time allows, which will probably be Monday.
I hope everyone else is enjoying themselves. Any other races on the horizon for the group?
EDIT: Whoops, it's called the Okanagan Marathon, not Kelowna. I can never keep 'em straight.
L_Master, well done at the Hill Climb. Tough race, especially without sufficient warmup, but you gutted it out and as Bonham said the consistent effort you've put in really paid off. 'Really looking forward to hearing about the 5k training and running down in the Springs (I'm not too quick to pick up on all the biking acronyms!).
Thanks very much for the fun-to-read and upbeat post, Bonham! "Evil bearded Calgarian" had me LOLing at work. Climbing up ski hills is what we do, here in CO, on occasion (Power of 4 started straight up one, too). That Sinister 7 sounds awesome, maybe I will get out there some day. GOOD LUCK, race smart and beat Chris this weekend.
Personally, I fell off the consistent effort wagon after Dirty 30 (50k). Apparently, it hasn't hurt me too much, since I've still been able to race "ok" since then: *Mount Evans Ascent: really good race for me, ran it smart and consistent effort at 10k-14k elevation. Very good PB, but still really far out of the age group awards. I am getting hungry for an ice cream bowl next year... *Power of 4 25k was ridiculous, top three spots (which I had hoped to snipe) were filled by legit pro and semi-pro trail runners. For a dinky 25k! All and all, it was a beautiful course and great day: foggy, light drizzle, cool with only a little bit too much mud. The friend I was hoping to run it with and/or was worried would beat me had a much harder day than I expected he would - hope he gets if figured out (stomach or competitiveness issues) so that we can race together in future. *Most recently I did very well at the 50th Annual La Luz Trail Run!! After a previous discussion here about whether or not my goal of top 10 was an appropriate/good idea I was definitely supercharged to make it into this top bracket. Started a bit quick with a race bandit named Solomon, a marathoner I think of African extraction. Really smart racer, makes it look easy. He and one other guy and I packed it up for much of the trail climbing, but I had to let them go after about mile 5 for fear of bonking too hard later. I knew I was in 6/7th place, just held on an ran my own race after that. 6th overall, and 1st in the 25-29 male age group. Not just a dramatic improvement in overall placing, but about a 5 minute PB on the course, which was gratifying.
So, what am I doing next? PEACH FESTIVAL 5K IS WHAT! Only for fun and peach pie race, we'll see if my legs remember how to turn over quickly or not. In truth, I need to really add on some miles - I'm most likely doing the Rock-n-Roll Marathon in Las Vegas, and that's coming up quickly. Someone once said "you cannot wing a road marathon" and I will do my best to get a decent (if short) training cycle in to be prepared for marathon PR + good time running against my friend Matt.
Fall is almost here, gang. Enjoy the weather and get some miles!
On August 17 2015 03:51 Bonham wrote: Hello TL! I return to necro this thread, Arthas-like. I've been MIA for a long time, I know. I'm glad to see its still ticking along.
I'm not sure I know enough cycling to correctly interpret your race recap, L_Master, but it looks to me like you futzed up the tactics a bit on this Pikes Peak race and still managed a third place finish. Most important, it sounds like you had a good time. R.e. your reflections on the season as a whole, I'm reminded of a Mark Wetmore quote my coach brought to the attention of his charges recently: "The key to becoming great isn't found on the edges of diet, science, or technology. The key is consistent, uninterrupted training." It sounds like you're on the way to becoming a pretty formidable racer!
But just out of curiosity, why did you shut it down after this particular race? Also, how goes the running campaign?
I wouldn't say I messed up tactics, unless you count warming up as a tactic in which case I fudged badly. In bike races, unlike running races, you pretty much need to go with the pack because of the draft benefits. So even if the pack goes out suicidally, in almost all cases it's better to stay in rather than drop back at a sane pass.
Now, on steep climbs like PP this becomes a pretty marginal effect, but the first 3 miles were reasonably flat to the point it was worth it to stay in even if it meant making some crazy surges. The lack of warm up made these difficult to handle and hard to find a rhythm when we got to the steeper part where it behaves more like a running race would.
Shut it down because I'm fairly burnt out right now. I trained at 40% more volume (by time) than I ever have before with significantly more intensity for almost 9 straight months. Much of it in a caloric deficit. Now you can do much more volume on a bike than you ever could running, but it's still a long, hard training block. Going to try to maintain some fitness till September when YPang comes out here, but after that I'm taking a good 2-3 weeks totally off.
After that, I'll probably try to do a short winter training cycle for running with some tempo maintenance on the bike. How committed I am to that depends on if I am able to build the mileage back up to a decent level in short order without injury problems. I went from 0 to 70mpw in 2011 in three months problem free, but the last time or two I built up I kept getting nagging soreness either in the calf or the foot.
Big goals for 2016 are going to be Tour of the Gila (biggest amateur race in the country) in late April, and then again Pikes Peak in August.
On August 17 2015 03:51 Bonham wrote:
As for my own running, I'm rapidly approaching what I think of as the Time of Judgement, aka fall racing season. The Edmonton half goes down a week from today, and then the Kelowna full meal deal on Thanksgiving (that's October 12 to you American philistines out there.) I'm shooting for a 1:11 next weekend and dreaming about a 2:30 in Kelowna.
I think 1:11 is a pretty realistic goal. My PB right now, set in May, is 1:12:58, but that was on a harder course than I’ll run in Edmonton, the last half was a solo time-trial, and, most important, I’ve put in a bunch of good training since then. Been running lots of tempos in the 3:20-3:25 min/km range, which is around where I need to be. I’ll also have the benefit of a good group to work with. Two other guys I train with will be trying to run that time, so if all goes well we’ll have some competitive juices pushing us faster.
Nice stuff. 1:11. Shit. That's getting well into fantasyland territory for me. Hopefully running will go better at a lighter weight but the thought of stringing together 5:20's is pretty hard to fathom. Glad to hear you're on track for a good race, at that level knocking off a few minutes each cycle is doing pretty damn well.
On August 17 2015 03:51 Bonham wrote: The only real drawback of Sin 7 was the small detail that the racing is absolutely terrible and agonizing and I hate it. My leg started with a preposterous climb straight up a ski hill and got worse from there. There was none of the sense of speed or grace or determination that I like in a road race. It was just pure suffering from start to finish.
This is probably why I don't like running up hills that much. It just feels sluggish for the same effort. For running that feeling of stretching out and flying is so much more enjoyable than grinding it out suffering to barely be moving 10:00 pace.
Sounds like a nice performance and good general experience though. Way to take down Mr. Cocky!
On August 19 2015 02:03 mtmentat wrote: Personally, I fell off the consistent effort wagon after Dirty 30 (50k). Apparently, it hasn't hurt me too much, since I've still been able to race "ok" since then: *Mount Evans Ascent: really good race for me, ran it smart and consistent effort at 10k-14k elevation. Very good PB, but still really far out of the age group awards. I am getting hungry for an ice cream bowl next year... *Power of 4 25k was ridiculous, top three spots (which I had hoped to snipe) were filled by legit pro and semi-pro trail runners. For a dinky 25k! All and all, it was a beautiful course and great day: foggy, light drizzle, cool with only a little bit too much mud. The friend I was hoping to run it with and/or was worried would beat me had a much harder day than I expected he would - hope he gets if figured out (stomach or competitiveness issues) so that we can race together in future. *Most recently I did very well at the 50th Annual La Luz Trail Run!! After a previous discussion here about whether or not my goal of top 10 was an appropriate/good idea I was definitely supercharged to make it into this top bracket. Started a bit quick with a race bandit named Solomon, a marathoner I think of African extraction. Really smart racer, makes it look easy. He and one other guy and I packed it up for much of the trail climbing, but I had to let them go after about mile 5 for fear of bonking too hard later. I knew I was in 6/7th place, just held on an ran my own race after that. 6th overall, and 1st in the 25-29 male age group. Not just a dramatic improvement in overall placing, but about a 5 minute PB on the course, which was gratifying.
Looks like every race was pretty good for you with PRs across the board. Nice work. Getting into top 3 is always hard at these competitive races, there are a ton of super legit runners, especially mountain guys, here in CO.
Good luck with Peach 5k, and with M training. Any goal time in mind?
There's a rumour going around that Reid Coolsaet, Rob Watson, and Eric Gillis–aka three of the four fastest marathoners in Canada–are running the Edmonton half on Sunday! Top 10 might be out of reach for puds like me, but it will be sweet to line up next to former Olympians.
On August 20 2015 11:27 Bonham wrote: There's a rumour going around that Reid Coolsaet, Rob Watson, and Eric Gillis–aka three of the four fastest marathoners in Canada–are running the Edmonton half on Sunday! Top 10 might be out of reach for puds like me, but it will be sweet to line up next to former Olympians.
Heck yes it is! Have a great race.
On August 20 2015 07:58 Bonham wrote: Fall is the best! It's totally beautiful and finally consistently cool enough to run fast.
It also means the epic bullshit of winter is not too far off. TT
And I'm just terribly hot weather biased. I prefer 90-100F during the day for normal activities. Running/cycling I like a little cooler, but 80s is fine, and you can always go earlier or later and get 60s. When you start to get to days with highs in the 60s then that means 90% of the day is deep into the 50s or colder....aka miserable cold.
If I lived in Tuscon or something and what most of us consider fal" was the depths of winter, I'd probably really enjoy it. All I can think about with fall here in CO is crappy mornings where it's in the 40s or colder and the looming inevitability of winter.
Mmmmm, I know that CO might *seem* cold to you, L_Master, but where Bonham and I are coming from (Canada, and damn near Canada) has ACTUAL winter. Like step outside your door and instafreeze your snot winters. Fall is but a prelude to cold, cold winter running and something to be appreciated!
First time in my life running 5k I believe and probably the first serious run post injury 2 years ago. 24:45, feeling good about it. Definitely room to improve there but not sure if I can push it under 20:00 any time soon.
There is this route in my hometown I used to run as a teenager. It is a little longer than 7km constantly uphill/downhill with several nasty hills with Up to 10% incline. When I was in my best Shape back then it took me 40 minutes. I tried to beat that Time several times whenever I was in decent shape but never managed to do it. Today I finished that route in 37:00. Clearly a new day in my training has arrived. Just let me stay healthy, please.
Alright guyz, haven't posted much about running lately, so here goes.
I'm currently focusing on a 5k road race coming up in a week. I've worked my 5k PB down to 20:58 (recorded during a time trial on a track 2 weeks ago) from 22:25 nearly 3 months ago. I think I have a great shot at making 20:45 at the race.
Thing is, I just fully recovered from a bad bout of stomach flu and fever over the past 4 days or so, and am looking to ease back into easy runs for the next few days. Planning to do some tempo runs before the race, but to be honest, I'm not even sure what shape I'm in post illness. Have any of u guys raced shortly after recovering and can I find out how well you did?
Btw, can I also ask any of u guys who had managed to break 20 mins for the 5K - how long did you take to progress from 21 mins to 20 mins or even sub-19 or 18? Idk but doing 96 second laps for 12.5 laps just feels impossibrruuu at the moment and it just seems so damm hard! Just before I got sick I was doing 4x1200m intervals @ 95s per lap and 3:30 rest in between and I was completely spent at the end of it, as if I'd just ran a race. I barely managed to hit all the splits and down to the last set my mind was like "fuck this shit" but I somehow managed to dig deep and push through.
P.S. I'm just turned 24, my height is 161cm and weigh 54kg for those who wanna know.
On August 23 2015 00:36 Clazziquai10 wrote: Alright guyz, haven't posted much about running lately, so here goes.
I'm currently focusing on a 5k road race coming up in a week. I've worked my 5k PB down to 20:58 (recorded during a time trial on a track 2 weeks ago) from 22:25 nearly 3 months ago. I think I have a great shot at making 20:45 at the race.
Thing is, I just fully recovered from a bad bout of stomach flu and fever over the past 4 days or so, and am looking to ease back into easy runs for the next few days. Planning to do some tempo runs before the race, but to be honest, I'm not even sure what shape I'm in post illness. Have any of u guys raced shortly after recovering and can I find out how well you did?
Btw, can I also ask any of u guys who had managed to break 20 mins for the 5K - how long did you take to progress from 21 mins to 20 mins or even sub-19 or 18? Idk but doing 96 second laps for 12.5 laps just feels impossibrruuu at the moment and it just seems so damm hard! Just before I got sick I was doing 4x1200m intervals @ 95s per lap and 3:30 rest in between and I was completely spent at the end of it, as if I'd just ran a race. I barely managed to hit all the splits and down to the last set my mind was like "fuck this shit" but I somehow managed to dig deep and push through.
P.S. I'm just turned 24, my height is 161cm and weigh 54kg for those who wanna know.
Cheers and thanks in advance for any advice
Hey, congrats on the PB! Looks like you're in the middle of making some tremendous progress.
I've never raced a 5k on a track, but I ran 16:09 in a road time trial and usually hit 16-mid in the odd 5k I jump into. (Marathons and half-marathons are where it's at, btw.) I don't have any distinctive memories of the first time I broke 20 or what I did to get there, but your question reminds me of a mindset people sometimes have when they first get into running: very ambitious expectations about their rate of improvement.
Taking almost two minutes off your 5k PB is a really big chunk. Doing it inside of three months is phenomenal. If you keep training, sub-20 will come eventually. The rule of thumb I've heard is that most people have at least 10 years of gains ahead of them when they start running.
Also, getting faster is not always uniform–you might train and train for months and see no improvement, and then one week notice you're way faster than you used to be. It's important to remind yourself that hard work always pays dividends eventually.
On August 21 2015 02:39 zatic wrote: First time in my life running 5k I believe and probably the first serious run post injury 2 years ago. 24:45, feeling good about it. Definitely room to improve there but not sure if I can push it under 20:00 any time soon.
Nice run! That's a fine starting point, don't know your training and racing background but obviously there is plenty of low hanging fruit around for getting quicker. 19:xx would probably be a big reach this year, but you know your training much better than I.
On August 22 2015 21:30 Malinor wrote: There is this route in my hometown I used to run as a teenager. It is a little longer than 7km constantly uphill/downhill with several nasty hills with Up to 10% incline. When I was in my best Shape back then it took me 40 minutes. I tried to beat that Time several times whenever I was in decent shape but never managed to do it. Today I finished that route in 37:00. Clearly a new day in my training has arrived. Just let me stay healthy, please.
That's awesome! Smashed that old time by a huge margin, and yea it's really fun when you go back to old places and can tear up former stomping grounds
On August 23 2015 00:36 Clazziquai10 wrote: Alright guyz, haven't posted much about running lately, so here goes.
I'm currently focusing on a 5k road race coming up in a week. I've worked my 5k PB down to 20:58 (recorded during a time trial on a track 2 weeks ago) from 22:25 nearly 3 months ago. I think I have a great shot at making 20:45 at the race.
Thing is, I just fully recovered from a bad bout of stomach flu and fever over the past 4 days or so, and am looking to ease back into easy runs for the next few days. Planning to do some tempo runs before the race, but to be honest, I'm not even sure what shape I'm in post illness. Have any of u guys raced shortly after recovering and can I find out how well you did?
Btw, can I also ask any of u guys who had managed to break 20 mins for the 5K - how long did you take to progress from 21 mins to 20 mins or even sub-19 or 18? Idk but doing 96 second laps for 12.5 laps just feels impossibrruuu at the moment and it just seems so damm hard! Just before I got sick I was doing 4x1200m intervals @ 95s per lap and 3:30 rest in between and I was completely spent at the end of it, as if I'd just ran a race. I barely managed to hit all the splits and down to the last set my mind was like "fuck this shit" but I somehow managed to dig deep and push through.
P.S. I'm just turned 24, my height is 161cm and weigh 54kg for those who wanna know.
Cheers and thanks in advance for any advice
Illness - It really varies from person to person. Some take bigger hits to fitness from illness than others. If you were good and sick, not able to do much and throwing up a bunch or running a good fever...I wouldn't expect a particularly good race. Usually if I get a nasty multi-day bug it takes a week or two to feel back up to where I was
My sub 20 anecdote - I'm one of those "phenomenal" people Bonham mentioned. I went from 24 5k to 18:20 in about 6 months.
I dabbled in running senior year of HS and first year of college. Maybe 15-50 kpw of just easy runs. Think I ran 21:xx once. Then I get back to being lazy and was more or less sedentary for the next two years. Starting back up again from more or less scratch I got serious. Started off in about 24:00 shape in April 11', went from 0-40mpw immediately, and then from April to June I built up to 115 kpw. Ran 18:52 and 19:04 in July, both on very short courses. Both races were about 6:30 pace, or 20:15 5k range. Added in some speedwork over Aug/Sep, but didn't race again until early October where I ran 18:21.
So for me it was about 6 months from out of shape to 18:20, and probably about 4 months to sub 20. After that 18:20 I fell into a trap of basically just doing 100 kpw with a weekly tempo for the next 9 months and didn't really improve much after that, I suspect because I didn't really give my body any new training stimulus. I allegedly ran 17:51 about 9 months after that 18:21, but I've come to believe that was also a significantly short course, as around that I'd only ever run 18 highs/19 lows. Nov of 2012 I got a groin pull that through various circumstances and my own mistakes kept me from running for the next 20 months or so. Been doing mostly cycling since my return in mid 2014.
Training Thoughts - Your weight is not a significant hindrance at all, and without knowing your BF% you might already be incredibly lean. General rule of thumb for elites is BMI around 20, which you're not far from.
If you're in 21:00 shape, then yes 96s/lap should feel pretty tough. That's 12 s/km, which is a BIG difference. Your training might close that gap quickly, but I know as a 18:20 guy trying to run 3:30/km pace would certainly seem impossible. I could probably go 800m at that pace and feel tolerable, but after 1500m I would be hurting badly.
Without knowing your training history it's hard to say, but if you have a good mix of general mileage, threshold runs, and your track work you'll no doubt find 95s laps becoming easier. Bonham does make a very good point about improvement, don't get discouraged if every race isn't faster, or every workout isn't better. You really can go a month not feeling like you're getting anywhere and then suddenly over the next week find you're running 10 s/km faster.
Certainly not in the same class as Bonham here, but I did the Edmonton half in 1:59, which made my goal of sub 2 I have been chasing for 3 years. Injury free for once, made a difference i'm sure. First half was 54 min, second half was awful - but hey, made my goal!
On August 24 2015 05:13 LagLovah wrote: Certainly not in the same class as Bonham here, but I did the Edmonton half in 1:59, which made my goal of sub 2 I have been chasing for 3 years. Injury free for once, made a difference i'm sure. First half was 54 min, second half was awful - but hey, made my goal!
Good job! If you ran the first half a couple minutes slower, you probably would have finished even faster. I make that same mistake all the time in my long races...good pacing is a skill in itself.
Starting to think I might just not be great at distance running haha. I can run a 46ish 10k but breaking 2 hours in the half has been a nightmare.
Pacing probably could have been better, I definitely felt it around the 15k mark, not tired, just muscle fatigue. Anyhow, have a tough mudder in 2 weeks then another half in 2 more weeks, will see if I can't improve upon that time a bit!
On August 24 2015 01:37 Bonham wrote: Edmonton half in 1:13. Legs just didn't have it today. I'm feeling disappointed. Will write more when I have time; maybe this afternoon.
Dang. It happens sometimes though, endurance athletics is fickle and on occasions the form just isn't there on race day even if the fitness to run a good time is there.
Darn, Bonham. Still a great time - and it looks like your friend Chris also a hard race? Write about it when you have time, and if you want.
Peach festival 5k was pretty fun this year. Got another peach pie, 2nd place overall. Got beat by a 13-year-old boy from Fort Collins, which is kinda an awesome and strange event. Whatever moral qualms I would have had about sprint finishing to beat him were quickly rendered moot by his quick downhill legs at about mile 2.5. Future Galen Rupp?
And speaking of wonder boys, good to see Mo Farah in grand racing form as always. Had to work for it, but it looks like he's really going to be primed and hungry for the 5k win as well.
On August 23 2015 00:36 Clazziquai10 wrote: Alright guyz, haven't posted much about running lately, so here goes.
I'm currently focusing on a 5k road race coming up in a week. I've worked my 5k PB down to 20:58 (recorded during a time trial on a track 2 weeks ago) from 22:25 nearly 3 months ago. I think I have a great shot at making 20:45 at the race.
Thing is, I just fully recovered from a bad bout of stomach flu and fever over the past 4 days or so, and am looking to ease back into easy runs for the next few days. Planning to do some tempo runs before the race, but to be honest, I'm not even sure what shape I'm in post illness. Have any of u guys raced shortly after recovering and can I find out how well you did?
Btw, can I also ask any of u guys who had managed to break 20 mins for the 5K - how long did you take to progress from 21 mins to 20 mins or even sub-19 or 18? Idk but doing 96 second laps for 12.5 laps just feels impossibrruuu at the moment and it just seems so damm hard! Just before I got sick I was doing 4x1200m intervals @ 95s per lap and 3:30 rest in between and I was completely spent at the end of it, as if I'd just ran a race. I barely managed to hit all the splits and down to the last set my mind was like "fuck this shit" but I somehow managed to dig deep and push through.
P.S. I'm just turned 24, my height is 161cm and weigh 54kg for those who wanna know.
Cheers and thanks in advance for any advice
Hey, congrats on the PB! Looks like you're in the middle of making some tremendous progress.
I've never raced a 5k on a track, but I ran 16:09 in a road time trial and usually hit 16-mid in the odd 5k I jump into. (Marathons and half-marathons are where it's at, btw.) I don't have any distinctive memories of the first time I broke 20 or what I did to get there, but your question reminds me of a mindset people sometimes have when they first get into running: very ambitious expectations about their rate of improvement.
Taking almost two minutes off your 5k PB is a really big chunk. Doing it inside of three months is phenomenal. If you keep training, sub-20 will come eventually. The rule of thumb I've heard is that most people have at least 10 years of gains ahead of them when they start running.
Also, getting faster is not always uniform–you might train and train for months and see no improvement, and then one week notice you're way faster than you used to be. It's important to remind yourself that hard work always pays dividends eventually.
Thanks! Sometimes I do feel like I'll never improve beyond 20 minutes, but hopefully I'll be proven wrong
On August 23 2015 00:36 Clazziquai10 wrote: Alright guyz, haven't posted much about running lately, so here goes.
I'm currently focusing on a 5k road race coming up in a week. I've worked my 5k PB down to 20:58 (recorded during a time trial on a track 2 weeks ago) from 22:25 nearly 3 months ago. I think I have a great shot at making 20:45 at the race.
Thing is, I just fully recovered from a bad bout of stomach flu and fever over the past 4 days or so, and am looking to ease back into easy runs for the next few days. Planning to do some tempo runs before the race, but to be honest, I'm not even sure what shape I'm in post illness. Have any of u guys raced shortly after recovering and can I find out how well you did?
Btw, can I also ask any of u guys who had managed to break 20 mins for the 5K - how long did you take to progress from 21 mins to 20 mins or even sub-19 or 18? Idk but doing 96 second laps for 12.5 laps just feels impossibrruuu at the moment and it just seems so damm hard! Just before I got sick I was doing 4x1200m intervals @ 95s per lap and 3:30 rest in between and I was completely spent at the end of it, as if I'd just ran a race. I barely managed to hit all the splits and down to the last set my mind was like "fuck this shit" but I somehow managed to dig deep and push through.
P.S. I'm just turned 24, my height is 161cm and weigh 54kg for those who wanna know.
Cheers and thanks in advance for any advice
Illness - It really varies from person to person. Some take bigger hits to fitness from illness than others. If you were good and sick, not able to do much and throwing up a bunch or running a good fever...I wouldn't expect a particularly good race. Usually if I get a nasty multi-day bug it takes a week or two to feel back up to where I was
My sub 20 anecdote - I'm one of those "phenomenal" people Bonham mentioned. I went from 24 5k to 18:20 in about 6 months.
I dabbled in running senior year of HS and first year of college. Maybe 15-50 kpw of just easy runs. Think I ran 21:xx once. Then I get back to being lazy and was more or less sedentary for the next two years. Starting back up again from more or less scratch I got serious. Started off in about 24:00 shape in April 11', went from 0-40mpw immediately, and then from April to June I built up to 115 kpw. Ran 18:52 and 19:04 in July, both on very short courses. Both races were about 6:30 pace, or 20:15 5k range. Added in some speedwork over Aug/Sep, but didn't race again until early October where I ran 18:21.
So for me it was about 6 months from out of shape to 18:20, and probably about 4 months to sub 20. After that 18:20 I fell into a trap of basically just doing 100 kpw with a weekly tempo for the next 9 months and didn't really improve much after that, I suspect because I didn't really give my body any new training stimulus. I allegedly ran 17:51 about 9 months after that 18:21, but I've come to believe that was also a significantly short course, as around that I'd only ever run 18 highs/19 lows. Nov of 2012 I got a groin pull that through various circumstances and my own mistakes kept me from running for the next 20 months or so. Been doing mostly cycling since my return in mid 2014.
Training Thoughts - Your weight is not a significant hindrance at all, and without knowing your BF% you might already be incredibly lean. General rule of thumb for elites is BMI around 20, which you're not far from.
If you're in 21:00 shape, then yes 96s/lap should feel pretty tough. That's 12 s/km, which is a BIG difference. Your training might close that gap quickly, but I know as a 18:20 guy trying to run 3:30/km pace would certainly seem impossible. I could probably go 800m at that pace and feel tolerable, but after 1500m I would be hurting badly.
Without knowing your training history it's hard to say, but if you have a good mix of general mileage, threshold runs, and your track work you'll no doubt find 95s laps becoming easier. Bonham does make a very good point about improvement, don't get discouraged if every race isn't faster, or every workout isn't better. You really can go a month not feeling like you're getting anywhere and then suddenly over the next week find you're running 10 s/km faster.
Wow! Still I guess it's easier if you'd ran competitively in the past, but I started out never having trained at all, at least for running. I'm on around 40 to 50km per week - 100kpw sounds pretty insane to me. I'm not sure I can even get there, and it will be pretty time consuming I guess... what kind of training stimuli (or lack thereof) are you referring to when u were talking about your rut?
Wow! Still I guess it's easier if you'd ran competitively in the past, but I started out never having trained at all, at least for running. I'm on around 40 to 50km per week - 100kpw sounds pretty insane to me. I'm not sure I can even get there, and it will be pretty time consuming I guess... what kind of training stimuli (or lack thereof) are you referring to when u were talking about your rut?
I hadn't run competitively in the past. Those first two years I just jogged for 30 min to an hour most days of the week, a far cry from competitive running. No doubt it layed down a little fitness base for when I started again a few years later, but I definitely wasn't a guy who had 15:30 5k training and muscle memory left in his legs.
From the physical side of things, you absolutely can get to 100kpw...or more. Of course that's dependent on having the desire and schedule that allows for it. They key is just building mileage gradually listening to the body. Adding something like 5-10 km per week for 3-4 weeks, then allow yourself a week at half of what you built to, then build again is how you'd go about it. If any weeks start to feel particularly tough, you'd repeat the previous week and then try again.
From the time side of things I really don't find it too bad. As a 20:xx guy, I'd expect your normal run pace for an easy run to be around 5:10-5:30/km, so even at 100 km/wk that's just 8-9 hours a week of running, which means less than an hour most days and maybe a longer run of 1.5-2 hours on the weekend.
Cycling on the other hand....20-30 hour weeks are the norm. Time commitment central.
With all that said, the only reason you would need to worry about 100+ kpw is if you're extremely dedicated to becoming a very good runner. Don't get the idea it's something you need to do to be a great runner. For some high mileage works very well, for others they can be darn near equally as successful running 60-80 kpw with focus on a smart training plan and quality sessions. You won't ever reach 100% of your potential on less than 100kpw, but you could probably reach 98% of it. I would say that 40-50 kpw is pretty darn low mileage though. You'd likely get quite a bit better just bumping that up into the 60-70 kpw range. That gives you enough mileage to get in a decent longer run, and not have standard workouts be taxing both from an intensity and duration standpoint.
On August 26 2015 08:33 Clazziquai10 wrote: what kind of training stimuli (or lack thereof) are you referring to when u were talking about your rut?
I fell back into the trap on doing nothing but easy runs every day. I was running about 100 kpw, but I was always running 4:30-5:00/km pace, with maybe one day a week doing 6km at 3:55/km.
After a couple months of that the body adapts to the stimulus and doesn't really improve because there is no unique or progressive stress to the system.
Robbie Burns once said that the best laid plans of mice and men aft gang agly. If I interpret him correctly, though it is always difficult to be certain with a Scotsman, my experience this weekend offers proof of this.
The first hint I had that things would not go well came the week before the race. My training club, the RRAC, had many runners in the weekend's races and we all met for a tuneup workout on Wednesday. Our coach gave the half-marathoners, which consisted of me and two other guys, a 20 minute tempo followed by 15 reps of 30 seconds hard then 30 seconds easy. Running 3:30/km for the tempo felt kind of labored. Not hard, but harder than it should have been. Goal pace for the race was 3:23, after all.
But training is a mysterious thing, in my experience. Some workouts go well, others go poorly. Your legs are tired. It is hot. Your guts misbehave. It is cold. Just the right song comes on the iPod at just the right moment. Such things make a run a triumph or an ordeal. So I wasn't thrilled when my legs felt so heavy on Wednesday, but I didn't panic either. I had three days of easy running to get them rested up.
Come race day, I felt very confident that I had an excellent shot at 1:11:30. I'd run 1:13 on this exact course one year ago, and I had run over 6,000km in training since then. I ran 1:12-high in Vancouver in the spring on a tougher course. I had a good plan, good company to run with, good weather, and lots of support from the crowds and the other people on the course. I've really gotten to know lots of people in the running community around here this year, and it was awesome to see so many chasing PBs on Sunday.
Things started to go pear-shaped almost right from the gun. Chris and I set out right around goal pace for the first few k, easing into things a bit and avoiding my favorite mistake, which is to run the first mile in about five minutes flat. But we were a party of two where we'd expected to be a trio. Another member of my club, a very talented runner named Jevin who received a full scholarship to run stateside in university and who was trying to move up to the half, had agreed to hang with us and share pacing duties–at least for the first half. He's probably a 1:09 or faster runner on a good day, so I wasn't expecting him to be with us all the way if things went well.
But I also wasn't expecting him to take off in the wake of the leaders. He probably put 400 metres on us inside the first three k. As he pushed ahead, Chris told me he'd be pace bait for us later. He turned out to be right. Sort of.
After a little while, we fell in with the lead woman, who I later learned was an Olympian from New Zealand. She was running right at 3:23 though, I felt, it sounded like she was working a bit too hard to do so. Still, she had a bike pacing her, and as the first five k of the course overlapped with the 10k race and were therefore very crowded, I was grateful for the course-clearing guidance.
(This runner also, incidentally, was wearing a running outfit that met the demands of decency, but not by too great a margin. In a singlet and split shorts I was pretty chilly for most of the race. She must have been freezing. I have no idea why some people don't wear more clothing running most marathons. You start at seven in the morning, usually, so even if it's in the summer it's not going to be scorching. But I digress.)
The plan fell apart around four k. Chris and I had schemed to take turns at the front, alternating every two kilometres or so. But Chris was dragging more than driving the pace. I'd match pace with him for a bit, look at my watch and see 3:24, and then put in a minor surge to dial it back to 3:23. After three or four episodes of this, I realized that I was going to have to front-run the whole race if I wanted to hit 1:11.
Chris, of course, knew this well before I did. We’d talked and talked about this race so much beforehand, but he didn’t mention that he’d been battling the Demon of Plantar Fasciitis for the last month. It finally claimed him for its own on Sunday. I wonder how long he knew he probably wouldn’t be able to follow the plan. I suspect he kept up appearances to buoy my own confidence.
I put a bit of a gap on Chris shortly after five k, right where the course started to get a bit twisty. He called out to me to remember to run the tangents, and then I more or less left him behind.
So I was alone. Jevin was way up ahead and the race leaders well past him. Chris and the Kiwi woman were somewhere behind me. For the next mile and a half, I cruised along at race pace and felt pretty OK. Not strong enough to consider going after Jevin, but strong enough that the goal seemed real.
Around here the course turned onto a long straight stretch going south on 142nd street. The wind was blowing north. In my race gear, it felt like I was in a wind tunnel.
It was here that the race really slipped away from me. My legs felt unexpectedly heavy. I could see Jevin, maybe 400 metres ahead, but my urge to go and catch him, or at least maintain the gap, seemed carried away by the wind. I started to suspect that this wasn’t going to be much fun. I think I ran in the 3:25-3:30 range here.
It got worse when I hit end of 142 street, around 10k in. When I ran this last year, I pushed hard pretty much right to the end. Things got fairly uncomfortable, sure, especially towards the end, but the prize always seemed to outshine the pain.
This time, somehow, all I could focus on was how miserable I felt. My legs were made of stone. The plantars fasciitis in my left foot was uppity. My knees were unhappy. The course was too twisty. My hair looked dumb. I was going to run 1:20. My shorts were too short. What business did I have in a race, anyway? Running is dumb. Why do I spend so much time on it? Because I’m dumb, obviously. And slow to boot.
Negative thoughts overwhelmed me in the second half. I slowed down markedly, running in the high 3:30s for kilometres 16 to 20. I could have pushed harder, I think, but I was mentally beaten. When the Kiwi woman caught me with one k to go, I could hear her breathing like a bellows. I had been slacking for about two miles at that point, and theoretically could have summoned a kick to put her away pretty easily, but I just didn’t care.
I was kind of surprised, when I crossed the finish line, to see that I’d actually run 1:13 low. It really felt like I was headed for 1:14 or 1:15. It made me sad, because I still could have pushed for a PB when 1:11 left the picture, but I was too mentally weak to seize the opportunity.
One consolation for my wounded spirit is that almost no one I know had a good race on Sunday. Chris limped home in 1:14. Jevin pulled a muscle around 12k and DNFd. My buddy Simon, who was aiming to break 33 in the 10k, got lead off course by the lead cyclist and DNF’d. Even Tom, who won the marathon, only ran 2:28. He took a second off his PB too, which is always sweet, but given the summer he’s been having–crushing everything in his path, basically–even he was a bit wistful when we met up afterwards.
The other balm, of course, is that this is just one day. Everyone has off days, I’m told. I’ve been thinking about Sam Elliot’s mustachioed narrator in the Big Lebowski, and how he says “Sometimes you eat the bear. Sometimes, the bear eats you.” As mtmentat told me, bears gotta eat too.
But this particular ursine damn well better enjoy his meal, because when the Okanagan marathon rolls around on October 11, I intend to show up feeling positively voracious.
HELL YEAH. Cold run with people's paces all going off-track will do that to you. Take the day, and use it during training runs (as Strava might have already indicated) but stay healthy till the Okanagan. Man, you guys are all in such good shape but just had bad races.
For any interested persons, the Ultra Trail du Mont-Blanc is currently ongoing. Results and video are at utmb.livetrail.net/. Gogogo, Ryan Smith, Sage Canaday, Seth Swanson, Eric Lee!! Allez allez, Stephanie Howe, Darcy Africa, & Amy Roston!!
Anyone watch Mo in the 5k this morning? What a silly race. At least Nkidu started the kick from 800m, but really, if you're not going to challenge him until inside the last 1500 you are deciding to lose. The east African strategy for beating him, at this point, seems to be to wait until he turns 40.
Did my first big marathon pace workout of this build this morning, with most promising results. 25k at 3:32/km felt as easy as breathing. Probably could have pushed it down to 3:31 or 3:30 over the last five k, but I kept reminding myself that the point was to simulate a marathon and not run 25k as fast as possible. Gels and water went down smooth. I almost wanted to just run another 17 and have done with it.
Didn't get up early to watch, unfortunately. Stayed up too late last night refreshing the UTMB website listings
Glad to see you had a good workout, Bonham! Always helps, after a bad race. Seriously, though, looking back on your half - the 15x 30sec (effectively 200m) speedwork the Wed before can't have helped your performance. I think that your walk racing years are far, far in the future.
Final shoutout: Ryan Smith - epic performance for 9th place at UTMB. Really glad to see a friend do well (esp. after his somewhat disappointing Western States run). Just wow, and awe for all those who decided to run 170km around Mont-Blanc.
Well, those were on-offs, so it's not like I was sprinting. But I take your point; I wasn't particularly fresh heading into the race. Coincidentally, I asked my coach if he thought 2:30 was still realistic after the half went so poorly, and he said "Of course. I ran you guys pretty hard going into the race to simulate what the last half of a marathon feels like." I thought he was just being nice at the time, but after today I'm reconsidering.
Running 170k in a single go is a sure sign of insanity, incidentally. How do you know these elite guys? You're not planning to become an ultra runner yourself, are you?
Haha! Depending on who you ask, I'm already an ultra runner (50k trail). I think I'll tackle the 50 mile next year, not sure which one yet. Rocky Mountain Runners (local club) boasts quite a few very, very talented ultra runners I can train with and learn from.
The fun part about elite ultrarunners, as far as I can tell, is that they just care about running, mountains, and good food. No drama, no elitism or ego issues, just out for a run and then a beer (which I usually skip). Seriously grounded, mostly happy people.
Hey all, I'm a really inexperienced runner and last night I tried some of the tips that I read in the OP (stand up straight, hips forward, proper nobleman posing). As I got used to the hip forwards thing I started feeling like this was accentuating the motion of my ass, like I was a black chick walking down a catwalk in a pair of tight pants, shaking it like I was getting paid for it. I was more rolling my hips over the top of my legs than I was thrusting from my feet and up. Does this sound right to you?
Caused some chafing on my perineum (had to google).
Shaved 90s of my second attempt at 5k: 23:17 last night. Although I am pretty sure the better time is from running at sea level versus running at 2000m altitude. At least the 23:17 felt significantly easier than the 24:45 last week when I was running in Kenya.
Good news is I'll be up there again for two weeks so after training more 5Ks at that altitude I should get down to 20minutes reasonably fast when I am back home.
If i miss my bus on the way to work, i have to wait around 15-30 minutes which is quite a lot so it is quite important. A month ago(7th of august to be exact) i saw the bus on the way to bus stop and decided to catch it by running. I caught it but i was breathing heavily after that for a while. I decided to start running before work by waking up at 6AM that day because it saved me 15 minutes and felt good. Today i passed the 100km mark(80 of it logged on nike+ running) I am still really slow but feeling proud
On September 02 2015 20:54 Osmoses wrote: Hey all, I'm a really inexperienced runner and last night I tried some of the tips that I read in the OP (stand up straight, hips forward, proper nobleman posing). As I got used to the hip forwards thing I started feeling like this was accentuating the motion of my ass, like I was a black chick walking down a catwalk in a pair of tight pants, shaking it like I was getting paid for it. I was more rolling my hips over the top of my legs than I was thrusting from my feet and up. Does this sound right to you?
Caused some chafing on my perineum (had to google).
For my part, I really only think about running form when I'm doing strides or when I really want to hit the jets and ignore my nervous system, like in the final 120 seconds of a tempo run or during the whole of a 5k. (L_Master, feel free to jump in and disagree here.) My thinking at such moments is as follows: "Hips forward, shoulders back, neck relaxed, kick it."
But that's really high-end effort stuff. To improve your running economy on easy runs, I believe conventional wisdom is to just run more. Over time your central nervous system will figure out what works. When I started, I had crazy lateral movement in my upper body, but gradually I ran that bad habit out of my stride. Now I have different bad habits, but that's another story
On September 03 2015 02:04 Isualin wrote: Today i passed the 100km mark(80 of it logged on nike+ running) I am still really slow but feeling proud
On September 02 2015 20:54 Osmoses wrote: Hey all, I'm a really inexperienced runner and last night I tried some of the tips that I read in the OP (stand up straight, hips forward, proper nobleman posing). As I got used to the hip forwards thing I started feeling like this was accentuating the motion of my ass, like I was a black chick walking down a catwalk in a pair of tight pants, shaking it like I was getting paid for it. I was more rolling my hips over the top of my legs than I was thrusting from my feet and up. Does this sound right to you?
Caused some chafing on my perineum (had to google).
For my part, I really only think about running form when I'm doing strides or when I really want to hit the jets and ignore my nervous system, like in the final 120 seconds of a tempo run or during the whole of a 5k. (L_Master, feel free to jump in and disagree here.) My thinking at such moments is as follows: "Hips forward, shoulders back, neck relaxed, kick it."
But that's really high-end effort stuff. To improve your running economy on easy runs, I believe conventional wisdom is to just run more. Over time your central nervous system will figure out what works. When I started, I had crazy lateral movement in my upper body, but gradually I ran that bad habit out of my stride. Now I have different bad habits, but that's another story
I'm still a little bit torn here, and really so is the opinion of coaches. On the one hand there is a lot to be said for doing what is naturakl and under the stress of training ones body adapts to what is most effective. On the other hand, every other sport we do has elements of skill and technique that people practice and hone.
i think the roblem with running is that we don't really know what "good form" is. We can identify what pretty form is, but not what is functionally good (good being taken to mean either reducing injury or being more efficient and using less oxygen at a give pace). It's well observed that for many runners what looks pretty is not necessarily what uses the least oxygen.
There are some general form cues that are good to think about, but like Bonham says, I'd really only worry about those when either doing drills or strides.
Shaved 90s of my second attempt at 5k: 23:17 last night. Although I am pretty sure the better time is from running at sea level versus running at 2000m altitude. At least the 23:17 felt significantly easier than the 24:45 last week when I was running in Kenya.
Good news is I'll be up there again for two weeks so after training more 5Ks at that altitude I should get down to 20minutes reasonably fast when I am back home.
Good stuff! The difference between 2000m and sea level is significant. Depends on the person and race speed but for a 5000 anywhere between 30s and 120s could easily be from altitude. I'm at least 7% faster down here, maybe as much as 10%. Whenever I'm down at sea level I am now it's like a god mode hack, just crazy what I can do. My easy jog is usually 45+ s/mile (30 s/km) faster than what it is back up at 2300m in Colorado.
As for the 5k times, I don't want to discourage you, but I also don't want you to have unrealistic expectations and then be disappointed. Going from 23:xx 5k down to 20:00 is a BIG jump. I'd be very surprised if you made that improvement unless you're doing one of these three:
1) You're brand new to running and have done very little in training 2) You just made a significant change to your training such as a large increase in mileage, or going from nothing but jogging to a structured, well formulated training plan 3) You're losing a significant amount of body fat
Outside of those, for people that have been running for more than a few months taking a minute off ones 5k is a fantastic season. Bottom line is have an aggressive goal like that, it's good, but realize that kind of improvement might be a very big ask.
I went from 23:xx down to 18:21 in 7 months...but had all three of those factors going for me. I hadn't run in two years, and hadn't run much prior to those two years, I lost over 12kg, and I jumped all the way up to 100km/wk
Good god. I've always thought I was WAY stronger at sea level than I am at altitude. Never known for sure and just based that off how runs felt.
Today with a power meter I got a chance to confirm that. Unreal. At a minimum I'm 10% better here than altitude. Which squares well with running observations as 7' pace feels like jogging here.
315W for 25' starting at 290W and working up. Even at 340W I felt fairly controlled. Then 5×5' at 360W average with 2' recovery. Easily could have done a couple more.
I don't doubt for a second I could do 330W for 60' and 360W for 20'. Becoming pretty certain I've got the engine to ride in the domestic peleton, now just gotta see if I can pair that engine with a lean body. Still making steady progress on that end. 67kg yesterday. 7 more to go to complete the monster in the making.
I WILL discover where my potential lies this next season.
On September 05 2015 13:18 L_Master wrote: I don't doubt for a second I could do 330W for 60' and 360W for 20'. Becoming pretty certain I've got the engine to ride in the domestic peleton, now just gotta see if I can pair that engine with a lean body. Still making steady progress on that end. 67kg yesterday. 7 more to go to complete the monster in the making.
Whoo, go L_Master go! I have no idea what these numbers mean, but I gather the upshot is you're pretty talented and will soon be a millionaire. When you hit the big time, don't forget your Internet friends.
Got through my first 30k @ marathon pace workout today. Started slightly fast and paid for it in second half, especially the last 10k which felt pretty gruesome. Slowed down a bit over last 5k, but the watch said 30k @ 3:33/k when I finished so I felt pretty ok. Now time for a nap.
On September 05 2015 13:18 L_Master wrote: I don't doubt for a second I could do 330W for 60' and 360W for 20'. Becoming pretty certain I've got the engine to ride in the domestic peleton, now just gotta see if I can pair that engine with a lean body. Still making steady progress on that end. 67kg yesterday. 7 more to go to complete the monster in the making.
Whoo, go L_Master go! I have no idea what these numbers mean, but I gather the upshot is you're pretty talented and will soon be a millionaire. When you hit the big time, don't forget your Internet friends.
Got through my first 30k @ marathon pace workout today. Started slightly fast and paid for it in second half, especially the last 10k which felt pretty gruesome. Slowed down a bit over last 5k, but the watch said 30k @ 3:33/k when I finished so I felt pretty ok. Now time for a nap.
Nice run! Even with the fade that's still right at 2:30 pace no? Sounds like you've got a real shot at the goal if you're already doing goal pace in training for 3/4 of the distance.
As for the numbers, it's all about w/kg power to weight on the bike. Over an hour that's called FTP. Attempting to suggest a level of equivalence I'd say:
3 w/kg - In shape weekend warrior. Probably something like 23:00 for 5k. Better in some respects if you're a big boy putting out that number.
3.5 w/kg - Strong weekend warrior. I'd say something like 21:00 5k being similar.
4 w/kg - Getting good. You can easily compete well at even the highest amateur categories at that power in flat races. Probably equivalent go 18:30 for 5k
4.5 w/kg - Getting into top 5% or better an competetive strava climbs. Not many riding at this level except for serious amateur racers. I'd say is is probably like 16:30 5k. You're clearly way above most but you're unlikely to be the big shot in your area.
5 w/kg - Easily into the top 1%. Can top 10 any strava climb and often KOM/CR. 5 w/kg usually good enough for top 1/4 at against climbers in the top category of am racing. Probably 15:00 5k equivalent.
5.5 w/kg - Typical value for domestic pro riders. Good enough for world tour if you're a big guy. Only exceptional amateur climbers are capable of 5.5 w/kg for an hour. Probably like running 14:00
5.8 w/kg - Solid at world tour level for a good all rounder. 13:15 5k equivalent.
6.2 w/kg - 12:40 equivalent. Need this level or better to compete for overall wins in World Tour events.
6.5 w/kg - Hot sauce baby! Back in the Lance days top guys were cranking out mid to high 6 w/kg. 12:30 equivalent.
In my case, I have the potential right now to be anywhere from 5.2-5.5 w/kg based on how lean I can get without losing power.
I'll know more over the next few months what I can do with weight, but I can certainly become a very strong regional climber...and maybe quite a bit more.
heh. always wondered when you all talk about your results in colorado what it'd translate to at sea level. It's way rougher up there.
I haven't stepped up my running game any as I meant to but it's going well overtime I suppose. Today was a good enough barometer--made a more honest effort feeling good, 55:02 for what should be 8.00 miles. Felt good and nothing of too much effort (and finished last ~1.25 mile at 6:40 pace comfortably). Right after finishing just hand counted ~164-168 bpm heartrate so that seems appropriate for a harder day.
Well undertrained in mileage but trying to up it some for a half marathon. The fall will be nice
On January 17 2015 04:31 Malinor wrote: Finally... 25 months after my first try (which ended with a closed stadium and ice & snow on my alternative track), I broke 25minutes for a 5k. Many things contributed for this taking so long: new job, new town, weight gain, lazyness, whatever. But it doesn't matter now. Never give up :-)
I didn't feel particularly well either. Next stop: 10k in 49:xx.
The run today was only planned as a fast 10k training run. After all, yesterday I did a slow steady 15k and 2hours of strength training. But somehow it ended with a new 5k PR:
24:04min 1km: 4:57:0 2km: 4:56,3 3km: 4:49,7 4km: 4:47,7 5km: 4:33,6 Numbers are taken from Garmin Connect, they slightly differ from Strava The whole run on Strava
Basically I was exhausted from yesterday and just decided to go for it during a 10k after the 3rd fast km was below 4:50min. I'd say my goal to go sub 23:00 this year is well within reach.
I don't know my bodyweight right now but it should be around 105kg. I would like to drop to 95 until Christmas. I was close to 115kg in June. I think I can actually do it this time.
Shaved 90s of my second attempt at 5k: 23:17 last night. Although I am pretty sure the better time is from running at sea level versus running at 2000m altitude. At least the 23:17 felt significantly easier than the 24:45 last week when I was running in Kenya.
Good news is I'll be up there again for two weeks so after training more 5Ks at that altitude I should get down to 20minutes reasonably fast when I am back home.
As for the 5k times, I don't want to discourage you, but I also don't want you to have unrealistic expectations and then be disappointed. Going from 23:xx 5k down to 20:00 is a BIG jump. I'd be very surprised if you made that improvement unless you're doing one of these three:
1) You're brand new to running and have done very little in training 2) You just made a significant change to your training such as a large increase in mileage, or going from nothing but jogging to a structured, well formulated training plan 3) You're losing a significant amount of body fat
Outside of those, for people that have been running for more than a few months taking a minute off ones 5k is a fantastic season. Bottom line is have an aggressive goal like that, it's good, but realize that kind of improvement might be a very big ask.
I went from 23:xx down to 18:21 in 7 months...but had all three of those factors going for me. I hadn't run in two years, and hadn't run much prior to those two years, I lost over 12kg, and I jumped all the way up to 100km/wk
Thanks man, appreciate the input.
I guess I have only 1) going for me, as well as being reasonably fit in general. Really, for the past 4 years I have not done much running at all except for the occasional jog. I have however been lifting weights, especially a lot of squats, which I am sure contributes.
I also don't have a 20 minute 5k as a definite goal. If I can make it, cool, it is a nice, round number. If not, oh well. Lifting is more important for me in the end. I only pick up something else (like running) when I don't get to do my usual lifting, like currently with lots of business travel.
Still, my 23:17 was definitely not near my limit. That is 12.9km/h and I don't think 13.5km/h or 14km/h is unrealistic which would put me already in the 21 minute range. Anyway I'll be in the runner's homeland Kenya again tomorrow and will start it of shooting for 23:00 first.
What kind of running shoes do you guys like? (model/brand) I have one that I like right now and I usually like it if I am able to run/ day-to-day wear it rather than having multiple pairs of shoes.
Cut off by a car driver today forcing a crash. Whoop Whoop! Gotta love American drivers and there inability to do everything except for drive while being behind the wheel of the car. Person probably had no clue they did it either, as they just kept right on rolling.
Pulled out right in front of me, after coming to a stop for several seconds like they were waiting. Did what I could to dodge them, but didn't have any more cornering to give to get out of the way of the curb, which upon hitting caused me to smack down right on my hip. An unpleasant couple seconds riding at the curb and thinking "well shit...guess it's time to see what crashing is like".
Fortunately, aside from a bruised tailbone, myself and my bike are alive and well. Any luck I'll be out riding tomorrow. Short running season soon boys, going to be curious to see if I can put together something respectable.
On September 10 2015 14:33 L_Master wrote: Cut off by a car driver today forcing a crash. Whoop Whoop! Gotta love American drivers and there inability to do everything except for drive while being behind the wheel of the car. Person probably had no clue they did it either, as they just kept right on rolling.
Pulled out right in front of me, after coming to a stop for several seconds like they were waiting. Did what I could to dodge them, but didn't have any more cornering to give to get out of the way of the curb, which upon hitting caused me to smack down right on my hip. An unpleasant couple seconds riding at the curb and thinking "well shit...guess it's time to see what crashing is like".
Fortunately, aside from a bruised tailbone, myself and my bike are alive and well. Any luck I'll be out riding tomorrow. Short running season soon boys, going to be curious to see if I can put together something respectable.
Glad you're ok...cars are scary when you're on a bike
Glad you're OK L_Master. That stuff can get serious pretty quick--I had a very slow-speed fall a few months ago, and it cost me $300 in the bike shop and a bunch of new scar tissue.
On an unrelated note: is anyone else transfixed by all the Paula Radcliffe coverage? I can't stop reading about it. My nose is detecting a strong note of eau de Armstrong. Apparently noted anti-doping journalist David Walsh has something noteworthy coming out in the Sunday Times this weekend! We live in interesting times.
So I have recently started to run again after a long stint in strength training. I ran some cross country in high school but so i remember the general outline of what I should be doing to form a routine of some sorts. Ultimately by the end of next year I want to be running sub 18 5ks again while still having maintained the majority of my strength. Any suggestions on where to find a resource for finding quality theory on running programming? Or even just a good outline for a 25+ mpw training?
There's oodles of stuff out there. Arthur Lydiard and Jack Daniels would be the two inescapable thinkers here, but for my part I found Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitizinger and Scott Douglas a great training manual. Pfitz and Douglas have one for shorter distances too. I believe it's called Advanced Road Running.
If you're sticking to online stuff, competitor.com is pretty good IMO. LetsRun.com has a great message board with lots of really knowledgable people, but there's also tons of trolling and just plain rudeness there. You kind of need to know where to look for good info. The training forum's stickied threads are a good place to start. I'd advise against making a thread about this–if you posted asking for a 25mpw training plan, you'd probably get some pretty snarky responses, especially if you admitted that you'd (gasp!) tried a sport other than running after school.
EDIT: Oh, also, if you're looking to actually race (which I assume you are if sub 18 5k is a goal), Runner's World isn't really oriented towards you. Alex Hutchinson's column there is great, though.
On September 13 2015 08:45 Bonham wrote: There's oodles of stuff out there. Arthur Lydiard and Jack Daniels would be the two inescapable thinkers here, but for my part I found Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitizinger and Scott Douglas a great training manual. Pfitz and Douglas have one for shorter distances too. I believe it's called Advanced Road Running.
If you're sticking to online stuff, competitor.com is pretty good IMO. LetsRun.com has a great message board with lots of really knowledgable people, but there's also tons of trolling and just plain rudeness there. You kind of need to know where to look for good info. The training forum's stickied threads are a good place to start. I'd advise against making a thread about this–if you posted asking for a 25mpw training plan, you'd probably get some pretty snarky responses, especially if you admitted that you'd (gasp!) tried a sport other than running after school.
EDIT: Oh, also, if you're looking to actually race (which I assume you are if sub 18 5k is a goal), Runner's World isn't really oriented towards you. Alex Hutchinson's column there is great, though.
Ok, I will check those out. Thank you for that. Does anyone here run in the Pacific Northwest? It is amazing to run here around the Puget Sound. Very hilly though, but I guess that will just make me a lot better at running hilly courses. Also having a 435lb squat really helps being able to pick up your legs going uphill.
Edit: It didn't even cross my mind when i searched Jack Daniels that I was going to get nothing but whiskey lol
Jack Daniels is something Bonham has a close relationship to. I always tell him that Jack doesn't help his running.
As for lifting and running: There is a myth that if you run you'll lose all your muscles. I don't lift but I always read that that's not true. You just have to eat a lot more if you want to maintain both lifting and running. If you live with a calorie deficit for a while you'd obviously lose muscle mass and feel pretty shit overall.
Almost nailed my most important run before Berlin. 35k with 10k at Marathon pace (5:00/km)towards the end. Ended up only running 9k at ~5:05 pace because I got severly dehydrated and had to stop to puke a little (Half an apple and half a litre of water wasn't enough refueling). Overall I'm happy and my knee seems to hold up.
The training cycle could have gone way better but my knee injury slowed me down a lot mentally and physically. I did a solid amount of long runs but had to skip many hard workouts which tempers my expectations. Minimum goal was sub 3:30 which is still possible but I think 3:40 is more realistic. The race is in two weeks which brings me to something I want to ask you guys:
Carbdepletion and -loading. Do you have experience in it and how do you do it? There's a lot of information out there but nobody really tells me "Do this and that and you'll be fine". I'm currently leaning towards starting my carbdepltion a week before the race with a 25k run followed by an easy run at tuesday and a short session at race pace at wednesday. Wednesday evening will start the carbloading days with only light jogging until the race at sunday.
When is your race Bonham? Seems like you're peaking as well with your crazy run yesterday.
Jack Daniels is something Bonham has a close relationship to. I always tell him that Jack doesn't help his running.
I maintain it's the only training supplement you need!
On September 13 2015 10:04 xJupiter9x wrote:
Edit: It didn't even cross my mind when i searched Jack Daniels that I was going to get nothing but whiskey lol
Ha, I also overlooked that! In retrospect, I'm a big dummy. The thing to Google is "Daniels Running Formula." Sorry about that. I'm mad jealous you get to run in the PNW. I went to grad school in Vancouver and really loved running around the parks there, though I wasn't training quite as much as I am now.
On September 14 2015 00:56 Don_Julio wrote: Almost nailed my most important run before Berlin. 35k with 10k at Marathon pace (5:00/km)towards the end. Ended up only running 9k at ~5:05 pace because I got severly dehydrated and had to stop to puke a little (Half an apple and half a litre of water wasn't enough refueling). Overall I'm happy and my knee seems to hold up.
The training cycle could have gone way better but my knee injury slowed me down a lot mentally and physically. I did a solid amount of long runs but had to skip many hard workouts which tempers my expectations. Minimum goal was sub 3:30 which is still possible but I think 3:40 is more realistic. The race is in two weeks which brings me to something I want to ask you guys:
Carbdepletion and -loading. Do you have experience in it and how do you do it? There's a lot of information out there but nobody really tells me "Do this and that and you'll be fine". I'm currently leaning towards starting my carbdepltion a week before the race with a 25k run followed by an easy run at tuesday and a short session at race pace at wednesday. Wednesday evening will start the carbloading days with only light jogging until the race at sunday.
When is your race Bonham? Seems like you're peaking as well with your crazy run yesterday.
Nice moves Don! A fast-finish long run is a great workout, and the ability to hold goal pace that long at the end of one like you did is a promising sign. Do you really eat fruit on your long runs? I bit the bullet and bought a box of gels this year, and I must say they go down pretty easy in the middle of a workout. Might be something to try if you have the funds and time before Berlin.
My race, the Okanagan marathon, is on the Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend, which is October 11. I feel like I'm rounding into form pretty well and looking forward to two and half more weeks of hard work before the taper starts. My A goal, I think, is going to be sub-2:30. My B goal will be sub-2:35, and my C goal will be to beat my 2:39 PB from Portland last fall.
My race, the Okanagan marathon, is on the Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend, which is October 11. I feel like I'm rounding into form pretty well and looking forward to two and half more weeks of hard work before the taper starts. My A goal, I think, is going to be sub-2:30. My B goal will be sub-2:35, and my C goal will be to beat my 2:39 PB from Portland last fall.
Oh wow. I didn't realize your race was coming up so soon. Seems like a much shorter build-up than last one, but then again if I remember correctly you said the half marathon was as part of the race buildup...so it's not actually short. Really hoping you rip 10 minutes off your previous PB, that would be a pretty sweet improvement!
On September 14 2015 00:56 Don_Julio wrote:
Almost nailed my most important run before Berlin. 35k with 10k at Marathon pace (5:00/km)towards the end. Ended up only running 9k at ~5:05 pace because I got severly dehydrated and had to stop to puke a little (Half an apple and half a litre of water wasn't enough refueling). Overall I'm happy and my knee seems to hold up.
The training cycle could have gone way better but my knee injury slowed me down a lot mentally and physically. I did a solid amount of long runs but had to skip many hard workouts which tempers my expectations. Minimum goal was sub 3:30 which is still possible but I think 3:40 is more realistic. The race is in two weeks.
Nice run, especially considering you made it all the way to 9k at pace being that hydrated. That's impressive. Given the two different goals, what pacing strategy are you thinking for race day?
As for me, YPang is here in the good ole CO for a few weeks. Did a good, long hill ride in the Springs yesterday with like 2000m of climbing over 100km. Pretty much everything good in the Springs except Pikes Peak.
Today we went and ran my personal favorite trial to run in the Springs. Despite the bike ride the day before I was on pretty good form and had my best ever run through there by a solid margin (1:30 PR on a 45' approx loop). More fun to come in the ensuing weeks, and I'll try to get some pictures at some point.
Jack Daniels is something Bonham has a close relationship to. I always tell him that Jack doesn't help his running.
I maintain it's the only training supplement you need!
On September 13 2015 10:04 xJupiter9x wrote:
Edit: It didn't even cross my mind when i searched Jack Daniels that I was going to get nothing but whiskey lol
Ha, I also overlooked that! In retrospect, I'm a big dummy. The thing to Google is "Daniels Running Formula." Sorry about that. I'm mad jealous you get to run in the PNW. I went to grad school in Vancouver and really loved running around the parks there, though I wasn't training quite as much as I am now.
On September 14 2015 00:56 Don_Julio wrote: Almost nailed my most important run before Berlin. 35k with 10k at Marathon pace (5:00/km)towards the end. Ended up only running 9k at ~5:05 pace because I got severly dehydrated and had to stop to puke a little (Half an apple and half a litre of water wasn't enough refueling). Overall I'm happy and my knee seems to hold up.
The training cycle could have gone way better but my knee injury slowed me down a lot mentally and physically. I did a solid amount of long runs but had to skip many hard workouts which tempers my expectations. Minimum goal was sub 3:30 which is still possible but I think 3:40 is more realistic. The race is in two weeks which brings me to something I want to ask you guys:
Carbdepletion and -loading. Do you have experience in it and how do you do it? There's a lot of information out there but nobody really tells me "Do this and that and you'll be fine". I'm currently leaning towards starting my carbdepltion a week before the race with a 25k run followed by an easy run at tuesday and a short session at race pace at wednesday. Wednesday evening will start the carbloading days with only light jogging until the race at sunday.
When is your race Bonham? Seems like you're peaking as well with your crazy run yesterday.
Nice moves Don! A fast-finish long run is a great workout, and the ability to hold goal pace that long at the end of one like you did is a promising sign. Do you really eat fruit on your long runs? I bit the bullet and bought a box of gels this year, and I must say they go down pretty easy in the middle of a workout. Might be something to try if you have the funds and time before Berlin.
My race, the Okanagan marathon, is on the Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend, which is October 11. I feel like I'm rounding into form pretty well and looking forward to two and half more weeks of hard work before the taper starts. My A goal, I think, is going to be sub-2:30. My B goal will be sub-2:35, and my C goal will be to beat my 2:39 PB from Portland last fall.
Berlin will have bananas, apple slices and sports drinks at aid stations. There is only one single aid station with gels. Fruits have worked well enough so far and I don't want to carry gels around. I'll have amazing support by friends at the course but I don't want to rely on them to supply me with how crowded the course is going to be.
2:30 would be huge. Good luck with that.
On September 14 2015 14:24 L_Master wrote: The training cycle could have gone way better but my knee injury slowed me down a lot mentally and physically. I did a solid amount of long runs but had to skip many hard workouts which tempers my expectations. Minimum goal was sub 3:30 which is still possible but I think 3:40 is more realistic. The race is in two weeks.
Nice run, especially considering you made it all the way to 9k at pace being that hydrated. That's impressive. Given the two different goals, what pacing strategy are you thinking for race day?[/QUOTE] I'll try to start out with courage at pace for a 3:30 finish. I'm willing to slow down to a 5:10/k pace if I get tired too soon.
Has Strava been acting normal for you guys? My last two workouts (Saturday and Monday) it had me going faster than my watch showed while I was actually running them. For the last rep yesterday, Strava claims I was five seconds per kilometre faster than my watch told me at the time.
Does anyone know what might be going on here? I feel I'm running well right now, but 3:10/km for 10k pace is still an outright fantasy.
It's more the GPS device itself thas has been acting weird recently for me. Sunday's run had me at 5:30 pace for a few minutes and jumed down to 4:30 a little later all while I was running at ~5:00/k effort. Strava seems to even that out actually. I trust neither my watch nor Strava right now.
No issues with Strava or GPS for me, recently, just the usual "can't get a reasonable lock" issues (had to turn a really good run I had on Sunday to private, lest people think I'm a canyon jumping superman).
Rattlesnake Ramble is quickly becoming one of my favorite races here in CO. 4.25 miles of up, around, and down in beautiful Eldorado Canyon with really really good swag at the end. Perfect way to start any Saturday - 5th place overall just a few spots back from the really fast guys. I was a bit sore/dogged it a bit, but looking forward to adding it to my goal races list in 2016.
L_Master - definitely let me know here or on Strava if you and YPang want to get together for a run this next 1.5 week!
On September 17 2015 01:12 mtmentat wrote: No issues with Strava or GPS for me, recently, just the usual "can't get a reasonable lock" issues (had to turn a really good run I had on Sunday to private, lest people think I'm a canyon jumping superman).
Rattlesnake Ramble is quickly becoming one of my favorite races here in CO. 4.25 miles of up, around, and down in beautiful Eldorado Canyon with really really good swag at the end. Perfect way to start any Saturday - 5th place overall just a few spots back from the really fast guys. I was a bit sore/dogged it a bit, but looking forward to adding it to my goal races list in 2016.
L_Master - definitely let me know here or on Strava if you and YPang want to get together for a run this next 1.5 week!
As of now we are inclining on Saturday, and then next weekend going to run Mags.
On September 17 2015 01:12 mtmentat wrote: No issues with Strava or GPS for me, recently, just the usual "can't get a reasonable lock" issues (had to turn a really good run I had on Sunday to private, lest people think I'm a canyon jumping superman).
Rattlesnake Ramble is quickly becoming one of my favorite races here in CO. 4.25 miles of up, around, and down in beautiful Eldorado Canyon with really really good swag at the end. Perfect way to start any Saturday - 5th place overall just a few spots back from the really fast guys. I was a bit sore/dogged it a bit, but looking forward to adding it to my goal races list in 2016.
L_Master - definitely let me know here or on Strava if you and YPang want to get together for a run this next 1.5 week!
As of now we are inclining on Saturday, and then next weekend going to run Mags.
Sweet! Enjoy the incline and I'll be in Boulder next weekend for Mags.
Running is just very rewaring right now. Since I am pretty heavy, the constant training and weight-loss easily results in one PR after another, without even trying.
A couple of weeks ago just a casual 5k PR at 24:04, last week I spontaneously logged a 4:22 pace over 1,5km. This week I did 8k in 40:15, with side aches and traffic around me. And finally yesterday I just set a 1km PR of 4:12. Everything without rest and just within normal training sessions. The 93km I logged-in last week were an all-time high as well.
My bodyweight is at 103,9kg right now, so exactly 14kg to go to reach the promised land. I hope I can finish this year at 95.
It's been a long time since I have felt so well and motivated. I just need to stay healthy... please!
But it still boggles my mind that there are people in this thread that run 3:30/km for 30km straight. Holy lord.
On September 18 2015 22:01 Malinor wrote: Running is just very rewaring right now. Since I am pretty heavy, the constant training and weight-loss easily results in one PR after another, without even trying.
A couple of weeks ago just a casual 5k PR at 24:04, last week I spontaneously logged a 4:22 pace over 1,5km. This week I did 8k in 40:15, with side aches and traffic around me. And finally yesterday I just set a 1km PR of 4:12. Everything without rest and just within normal training sessions. The 93km I logged-in last week were an all-time high as well.
My bodyweight is at 103,9kg right now, so exactly 14kg to go to reach the promised land. I hope I can finish this year at 95.
It's been a long time since I have felt so well and motivated. I just need to stay healthy... please!
But it still boggles my mind that there are people in this thread that run 3:30/km for 30km straight. Holy lord.
Go Malinor go! It's so great to hear that you're making progress and enjoying yourself. It is a truth universally acknowledged that running is the best.
As far as the speed thing: everything is relative. I follow a professional runner named Reid Coolsaet on Strava. In October he's going to try to break the Canadian national marathon record at the Berlin marathon. The workouts I see him post look totally impossible to me. And I'm sure he looks at what Wilson Kipsang or whoever gets up to and thinks "man, that dude is inhuman. How can anyone run that fast?"
So I always like to focus more on my own improvement than beating any particular person. As Qui-Gon Jinn says to Obi-Wan Kenobi, there is always a bigger fish.
On September 19 2015 07:37 xJupiter9x wrote: Does everyone here pretty much only use Strava to log their workouts?
Haha, yeah. I got into Strava because of a lot of trail runners in the area using it. Funny story, got called a "Strava nerd" yesterday because I knew where a fellow runner had a CR ("course record"). :D
ehh. Uncertain where my heart lies on my half marathon goal pace in a couple weeks.
Have a half marathon on october 11, which from some offhand accounts is a bit of a more difficult course. Pretty much the only thing I go through on my regular standard runs is heat (which is now in a good spot as the summer ends--very good temperatures) and sometimes it is pretty darn windy. There is some good hillwork that I only occasionally make use of though.
Did 9 miles today on regular flat bike/walking path in 1:05:20 (with short 20 seconds for water), which was harder than I would have liked it to be. Considering my "heart" is really on 7:15 pace for the race pace (1:35:00 basically) and I am not implementing the appropriately distanced long runs, I should re-evaluate that.
Working on upping my mileage (been just at 40 mpw), but also being smarter about mixing it up in my runs-- a little more hills, a little more intervals/mixing up the speed, and a little better long "slow" runs.
On January 03 2015 20:46 Meat wrote: Got a half marathon coming up in 64 days. Right now I run about 50 minutes @ 11km/h with 2 training days a week. Probably need to add an extra training day. Will miss more than a week due to wintersports as well.
Update: Was progressing alright but then I got some issues with my calves about 3,5 weeks ago (the soleus muscle from what I understand) after doing some speedwork. Realized I was using terrible (non-running) shoes so got my really old worn-out Asics back. Didn't want new shoes so close to the race so just got some new soles and proper socks. Recovery started about 2 weeks back. So after that I only had 1 decent training with 15km.
Weather was really good, probably around 15'C with some sun. First 5km was easy, I started somewhere in the front between all the much faster runners so everyone was passing me. Arrived in 27 minutes at the 5km point. Between 5 and 10 I started getting blisters and slowed down a bit. 57 minutes for the 10km mark. The 10 to 15 was pretty easy, felt good besides the blisters getting worse. At 15km there was a small clim, took a lot of energy. The 17 to 19.5 were tough as hell. Made a nice sprint the last 100 or 200 meters passing a lot of people.
My goal was to arrive around 2:15:00 but I arrived in 2:02:26, so I'm very pleased with the result. Never ran so far, was lacking training and my 10km+ runs were always around 6:30 / km. Guess the athmosphere and starting in front helps a ton.
Now going to train for < 2:00:00
Nice stuff!
That's a pretty solid run for curtailed training. Given the circumstances under which you ran the race shooting for sub 1:50 would probably be a more meaningful goal. No way you don't smash 2:00 if you stay healthy
Got a HM in a month, might actually be able to beat 1:50. Did a 10 mile race yesterday, more as part of my training program than as a race, and finished in 84:49 while my goal was 88. The race was pretty light and casual in general, though there was some heavy headwind at some parts and the race was going from one city to another, so it never became backwind. Accelerated twice, at the 13 and 15km marks cause I had so much energy left. Considering to get thights though, had a lot of problems with the shorts. Boxers and shorts kept rolling up, causing irritation between the legs.
Good thing about such a commercial run (50.000 runners) is that there is a lot of footage, I am shocked by my technique It's so bad, I'm making some kind of circular horizontal motion with my legs. I will have to work on that, maybe I'll take some private classes or something.
On September 22 2015 00:46 Meat wrote: Good thing about such a commercial run (50.000 runners) is that there is a lot of footage, I am shocked by my technique It's so bad, I'm making some kind of circular horizontal motion with my legs. I will have to work on that, maybe I'll take some private classes or something.
A few notes:
1 There's no overwhelming evidence that having really sexy running form actually makes you a faster runner. The owner of the women's world record for the marathon famously has very ugly form, for example. 2 The main thing you can do to improve your form is just accumulate more mileage, but if you want to accelerate the process you should strengthen your core and do some drills. Google "running form drills" and "running strides" for lots of helpful info.
So I'm trying to get into running ( again :D), i've had a lot of issues with my knees in the past so i'm trying to avoid straining myself too hard. I think it's common with people that lack experience in running, but one of my problem is that i have a hard time maintaining a regular pace so i tried to run 10k while monitoring my speed on strava. I was aiming for a 5.00 pace, i ended up doing 50.50 for the 10k (https://www.strava.com/activities/397189100), could have been more regular but i lost some time running off track for around 2km (lots of vegetation).
So anyway, any tips on how to improve my regularity? Also do you think aiming for a 4.50 min/km pace on 10k it a realistic objective? For now my priority is staying injury free, so i don't think i'll be able to run more than 20k/30k a week...
On September 22 2015 17:41 Jetaap wrote: So I'm trying to get into running ( again :D), i've had a lot of issues with my knees in the past so i'm trying to avoid straining myself too hard. I think it's common with people that lack experience in running, but one of my problem is that i have a hard time maintaining a regular pace so i tried to run 10k while monitoring my speed on strava. I was aiming for a 5.00 pace, i ended up doing 50.50 for the 10k (https://www.strava.com/activities/397189100), could have been more regular but i lost some time running off track for around 2km (lots of vegetation).
So anyway, any tips on how to improve my regularity? Also do you think aiming for a 4.50 min/km pace on 10k it a realistic objective? For now my priority is staying injury free, so i don't think i'll be able to run more than 20k/30k a week...
There are a couple of things you can do to reduce stress on your knees and angles in particular. First off, it's really important to make sure you warm up properly. Secondly, it's a good idea to run on gravel or at least a surface not as hard as pavement. Thirdly, listen to your body; if your knees feel like a 15 min run, don't overdo it, etc. If you want to run faster, the way to do so is definitely staying injury free anyway so there's no reason to force anything.
Do you guys run in the rain? I keep hearing that you should just go out and run, even if it's raining. Tried that twice and it just seems masochistic to me. If it rains I just check the weather report and plan it accordingly. I don't mind the rain in my face, but a cold soaking wet shirt glued to your chest is not a lot of fun to me. Or do you have a rainshirt that is somewhat waterproof?
On September 22 2015 00:46 Meat wrote: Good thing about such a commercial run (50.000 runners) is that there is a lot of footage, I am shocked by my technique It's so bad, I'm making some kind of circular horizontal motion with my legs. I will have to work on that, maybe I'll take some private classes or something.
A few notes:
1 There's no overwhelming evidence that having really sexy running form actually makes you a faster runner. The owner of the women's world record for the marathon famously has very ugly form, for example. 2 The main thing you can do to improve your form is just accumulate more mileage, but if you want to accelerate the process you should strengthen your core and do some drills. Google "running form drills" and "running strides" for lots of helpful info.
Well it's mostly that my legs seem a bit wobbly, so I will definately check for some exercises. I made a short compilation with Camtasia and uploaded it to youtube. I'm the guy running in an orange/white singlet, frustratingly rolling up blue shorts and blue shoes. Also tried to indicate with mouse cursor so should be obvious. I wonder what's the most important thing I should work on?
On September 22 2015 20:31 Meat wrote: Do you guys run in the rain? I keep hearing that you should just go out and run, even if it's raining. Tried that twice and it just seems masochistic to me. If it rains I just check the weather report and plan it accordingly. I don't mind the rain in my face, but a cold soaking wet shirt glued to your chest is not a lot of fun to me. Or do you have a rainshirt that is somewhat waterproof?
Running in the rain is the best. It only feels uncomfortable when it is really cold or when it is raining cows. Then I put on a running vest, that keeps me warm enough and holds off enough rain to stay comfortable.
As for the soaking wet shirt... Minus slow recovery runs, my shirt is always freaking wet. It doesn't make much difference to me. You should just try to sweat more, then the rain won't bother you ;-)
On September 22 2015 00:46 Meat wrote: Good thing about such a commercial run (50.000 runners) is that there is a lot of footage, I am shocked by my technique It's so bad, I'm making some kind of circular horizontal motion with my legs. I will have to work on that, maybe I'll take some private classes or something.
A few notes:
1 There's no overwhelming evidence that having really sexy running form actually makes you a faster runner. The owner of the women's world record for the marathon famously has very ugly form, for example. 2 The main thing you can do to improve your form is just accumulate more mileage, but if you want to accelerate the process you should strengthen your core and do some drills. Google "running form drills" and "running strides" for lots of helpful info.
Well it's mostly that my legs seem a bit wobbly, so I will definately check for some exercises. I made a short compilation with Camtasia and uploaded it to youtube. I'm the guy running in an orange/white singlet, frustratingly rolling up blue shorts and blue shoes. Also tried to indicate with mouse cursor so should be obvious. I wonder what's the most important thing I should work on? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yzL6n344n0
I see what you mean for your leg, unfortunately i'm not in a position where I can give you advice :D.
On September 22 2015 20:31 Meat wrote: Do you guys run in the rain? I keep hearing that you should just go out and run, even if it's raining. Tried that twice and it just seems masochistic to me. If it rains I just check the weather report and plan it accordingly. I don't mind the rain in my face, but a cold soaking wet shirt glued to your chest is not a lot of fun to me. Or do you have a rainshirt that is somewhat waterproof?
Oh god, I LOVE running the rain, as long as it's not both below 5 degrees and super windy. It's one of the most sublime pleasures for me. So is running in the snow at any temperature not way below freezing. Running in the rain just plain feels awesome, and running in the snow is more of an adventure thing of being out in crazy conditions and enjoying the "WTF is this idiot doing" dumbfounded looks from drivers on the road.
I've never had a problem with a cold, soaking wet shirt sticking to my chest. I never really feel cold out running (odd because I'm cold when it's 15 outside most of the time) and the sticking feeling is fine when it's rain. If it was really bad I'd probably end up taking the shirt off and carrying it in my hand.
Another vote for running in the rain. Unless it's under 10C outside, rain helps cool the air and makes it easier to run fast. Plus people tend to stay indoors so there is more space on the trails.
Had to deal with some extreme GI upset during yesterday's workout. I was forced to cut my second tempo in half to avoid "pulling a Radcliffe" if you know what I mean. Then as I was cooling down I was AGAIN forced to walk by my stupid intestines. This is the first time it's ever happened to me twice in one run. I think the culprit is the cabbage coleslaw I had for dinner on Tuesday. Not a pleasant experience, but I'd rather learn this now than during the race.
Hasn't been an issue for me in a very long time. I used to have problems but I have developed a good routine to poop before I run now. One time this year when I went running directly after getting up I had to hunker down in the woods.
I'm leaving for Berlin tomorrow. Last week was shitty because I caught cold. I still have some symptoms but I'm optimistic that they will be gone at sunday. Goal times are A. <3:30; B. <3:40 and C <4:00. I'm #13846 if you want to check results because I won't report back until monday. Also Kipchoge might try for Kimetto's WR. He had an impressive showing in London so it's absolutey possible. Would be cool to run in the footsteps of the WR.
Good luck, Don_Julio! I see A goal in your future, just keep smooth and keep positive images/thoughts flowing! Sleep lots leading up to it - especially if feeling a bit under the weather. Looking forward to hearing about it next week!
Also: saw a friend's custom jersey from Zazzle this past weekend, it looked pretty sweet (dye sublimation printing!) and so I put this mock-up together = http://bit.ly/1jeDkdl.
On September 24 2015 22:44 Bonham wrote: Another vote for running in the rain. Unless it's under 10C outside, rain helps cool the air and makes it easier to run fast. Plus people tend to stay indoors so there is more space on the trails.
My 2c on the rain running question = not a huge fan. I really enjoy running in snow, wind, cold, but heat and moisture don't help me at all (chaffing and poor heat removal).
Had to deal with some extreme GI upset during yesterday's workout. I was forced to cut my second tempo in half to avoid "pulling a Radcliffe" if you know what I mean. Then as I was cooling down I was AGAIN forced to walk by my stupid intestines. This is the first time it's ever happened to me twice in one run. I think the culprit is the cabbage coleslaw I had for dinner on Tuesday. Not a pleasant experience, but I'd rather learn this now than during the race.
How do you all deal with your guts while running?
Hydration, coffee (caffeine), and pre-race jitters/pure habit has been treating me well for the last couple years. I know that I need to go before a race, and pretty much if I have coffee or lots of water 1-1.5 hrs before the race I'm in the biffy 30 minutes before the race. I've been pretty lucky with good guts for most of my running, though, I just try to make sure to use the restroom as a matter of safety and not necessity.
Go Don Julio go! Don't worry about a poor week leading up to the race–you can't gain any fitness that will help you in that window, so as long as you're not injured on race day you'll be fine. I'll be cheering for you. Also for Kipchoge and Coolsaet!
Well, actually, I'll be asleep along with the rest of North America. But I'll be cheering for you in my dreams, which I think is probably better.
I am going to try to beat 50min on the 10k on Sunday next week.
I am thinking about doing a 15km Speed run 5:30/km this Sunday. May this be too close to the race so that it might hurt me? Or is one week of recovery still fine?
I have been training daily the last 3 1/2 months, so my body is quiet used to the volume. I appreciate any input :-)
If 5:30/km is really taxing for you, I think you should hold off. But if it's NBD (such as it might be if you're contemplating running 30 seconds per k faster for 10k), I don't think that will weigh you down. It won't make you any fitter for the race either, of course.
I absolutely SMASHED my run today (didnt even mean to be nearly as fast as I was, assuming my watch is working). Was a long run (75 min) so it probably is not smart at all. But I was just running great
On September 26 2015 13:49 Bonham wrote: If 5:30/km is really taxing for you, I think you should hold off. But if it's NBD (such as it might be if you're contemplating running 30 seconds per k faster for 10k), I don't think that will weigh you down. It won't make you any fitter for the race either, of course.
I ended up doing 16km with 5:12 pace. My average heartrate was 151. If anything, that should indicate that I did not go too fast. At 32 y/old, I should be able to run a 10k at 160-165 bpm. Well I don't know.
It somehow feels like my legs have not caught up to my lungs. I feel I could run forever, if not for fatigue in my legs. I will monitor this some more, it is kind of fun to observe your own body changing.
Go Don Julio go! Looks like he ran 3:41, so just on the cusp on the B goal. Hope he got over his cold and set a big PB! Is a race report pending?
Also, Eliud Kipchoge is insane. He ran around 18 miles with his shoes falling apart and still finished in 2:04 flat to win. If his shoes didn't screw up, I think he would have stood a very good chance of setting a new WR. He's surpassed Wilson Kipsang as the best marathoner in the world, in my mind.
Alsoalso, sadface for my man Reid Coolsaet, who missed Jerome Drayton's Canadian national record by 20 seconds. Assuming he wants to run the Olympics next year, this may have been his last crack at it. He's 36. OTOH, he's now the only Canadian ever to break 2:11 twice, and he took the "fastest Canadian not named Drayton" title from Dylan Wykes yesterday too.
I run 49:19 for 10km at the Cologne Marathon today. Mission sub 50min accomplished.
In the beginning there was so much traffic, once we had to stop for 15-20 seconds. And I had to fight with my stupid soaking wet start number. All in all I guess I could at least have gone a minute faster. I didn't feel too exhausted afterwards.
On September 28 2015 22:43 Bonham wrote: Go Don Julio go! Looks like he ran 3:41, so just on the cusp on the B goal. Hope he got over his cold and set a big PB! Is a race report pending?
Also, Eliud Kipchoge is insane. He ran around 18 miles with his shoes falling apart and still finished in 2:04 flat to win. If his shoes didn't screw up, I think he would have stood a very good chance of setting a new WR. He's surpassed Wilson Kipsang as the best marathoner in the world, in my mind.
Alsoalso, sadface for my man Reid Coolsaet, who missed Jerome Drayton's Canadian national record by 20 seconds. Assuming he wants to run the Olympics next year, this may have been his last crack at it. He's 36. OTOH, he's now the only Canadian ever to break 2:11 twice, and he took the "fastest Canadian not named Drayton" title from Dylan Wykes yesterday too.
Yea, that's pretty crazy to do that with your soles falling out. Had to be freakishly agitating. Very much looking forward to another Kipchoge v Kipsang showdown!
On October 05 2015 03:22 Malinor wrote: I run 49:19 for 10km at the Cologne Marathon today. Mission sub 50min accomplished.
Saw that on strava, very well done sir! Maybe it was the GPS that was off but you looked like you might have been on pace for even a bit quicker
Cycling - As for me, finished up the last cycling event of my season with a disappointing flat tire midrace that derailed any hopes of a podium spot (1/2 were likely out of the picture as two of the guys are absolute studs that on good days can podium finish in Pro-1-2 races). Still a decent day overall, though a clear picture has emerged that I have trouble bringing my A game on race day. It's a toss up whether the B or B+ game will show up, but A legs I have yet to have in a race.
I'm sure there is a bit of luck involved, but I'll have to comb through my training and see if I can pick up on any clues.
Running - On an exciting note.....It's time for some rrrruuuunnniiinnggggg boyzz!!!!!!!!!!! My achilles has been questionable, but hopefully that's a result of being fit and not having run much. Pretty optimistic that some stretching and gradual increase of mileage will keep it from being an issue.
It will be a shorter season, I'd really like 2 months to build mileage then 2-3 months with workouts, but I need to go into cycling build by January and want to take a couple weeks off before that, so I get about 10-12 weeks. Schedule looks like:
Oct 17 - CSU Homecoming 5k Oct 31 - Creepy Crawl 5k Nov 7 - Neilson 2M Nov 26 - YMCA Turkey Trot 5k Dec 12 - YMCA Jingle Bell 5k Dec 19/20 - Probably some college indoor 5k and/or 1500/Mile combination
Not sure what the target goal is yet, but I think for CSU race 19:30 or less would be passable and anything under 19:00 would be very solid, especially considering my average weekly mileage over the last 6 months is at 8.4 miles per week.
You have helped me out in the past and just wanted to share my summer running achievements with you.
My end goal race was a half marathon the first weekend of September. I am happy to report that I improved my time by 5 minutes and ran a 1:40. I was aiming for a little faster, but I ran it early morning and did not eat enough before hand.
Along the way I improved my times for 5K and 10K and 2M as well - here is a run down.
I grew up a sprinter and never had much stamina, but started getting into longer runs in high school. 12 years later I still like running fast, but I enjoy a long run every once in a while.
I think I'd like to do a period of working on speed, as I really enjoy pushing myself through those races. Nothing beats sprinting past everyone on the last hill to the finish line - it's my favourite part of the race.
With that in mind I am wondering if the running masters here think it is feasible for me to get my Mile run down to 5 minutes (about 5:45 right now, probably more like 6 min since I stopped training so hard) and my 2M to 10-10:30. I would really like to challenge for a top spot in one of the annual 2M races I will be doing, and it seems like first place usually goes to a modest 10:45 runner. The race happens the beginning of August.
Would be interested to know what training plans you guys use (online resources, etc. for training for shorter races 1M to 10K). I am currently using Jack Daniel's Running Formula training, but was wondering if there was anything else out there.
Oh god, I LOVE running the rain, as long as it's not both below 5 degrees and super windy. It's one of the most sublime pleasures for me. So is running in the snow at any temperature not way below freezing. Running in the rain just plain feels awesome, and running in the snow is more of an adventure thing of being out in crazy conditions and enjoying the "WTF is this idiot doing" dumbfounded looks from drivers on the road.
I love running when it is snowing out - it also seems more like an adventure. Rain, not so much - my nipples chafe after about an hour or about 10K - on a clear day, and for long runs I usually end up wearing bandaids. My wife loves to laugh at that.
How do you all deal with your guts while running?
I don't usually have trouble with my guts, except after my first HM race. I think it was the gels. I probably can't give good advice because I tend to run better with a full stomach - 1.5 -2 hours after eating a decent meal my runs are usually pretty good. I always read about eating 4 hours before a race....but I end up really hungry by the time the race rolls around. Anyone else have that problem? Running on a full stomach doesn't seem to effect me too much.
Running - On an exciting note.....It's time for some rrrruuuunnniiinnggggg boyzz!!!!!!!!!!! My achilles has been questionable, but hopefully that's a result of being fit and not having run much. Pretty optimistic that some stretching and gradual increase of mileage will keep it from being an issue.
Hooray! A return to the best sport of all. I'm sorry to hear your final bike race of 2015 didn't go well, but glad that you've returned to the fold (if only for a while).
What do you think is realistic for a 5k in December? I'll be curious to see your workouts on Strava and see how all that cycling translates.
As for me, I'm t-minus six days and going totally taper-crazy. This race is on my mind constantly. Sometimes I'm confident. Sometimes I'm scared. Mostly, I'm excited for it to get here. My long race-pace workouts tell me I can break 2:30 if everything goes well. The trick at this point is to focus on doing everything I control that can make that happen, and forgetting about things I don't influence (what if it's windy? what if the course is badly marked? what if my time chip doesn't work?).
Oh, also, I've revised my "B" goal from 2:35 to 2:33, which Finnish female phenom Alisa Vainio, who is 17, just ran a few weeks ago. Figure I should at least try to beat a teenage girl.
On October 06 2015 11:44 Bonham wrote: As for me, I'm t-minus six days and going totally taper-crazy. This race is on my mind constantly. Sometimes I'm confident. Sometimes I'm scared. Mostly, I'm excited for it to get here. My long race-pace workouts tell me I can break 2:30 if everything goes well. The trick at this point is to focus on doing everything I control that can make that happen, and forgetting about things I don't influence (what if it's windy? what if the course is badly marked? what if my time chip doesn't work?).
Oh, also, I've revised my "B" goal from 2:35 to 2:33, which Finnish female phenom Alisa Vainio, who is 17, just ran a few weeks ago. Figure I should at least try to beat a teenage girl.
Fate approaches. Wish me luck!
Awesome stuff! I know that feeling of getting antsy about the race during the taper period. Fortunately, I'm pretty good about trusting my training and coming to terms with knowing that I can only worry about what I can control. Definitely stress about whether I will have good legs, mediocre legs, or great legs though. Haven't learned how to figure that one out.
Really hoping things come together nicely and you go solidly under 2:30. It's definitely in you on a good day with cooperative weather.
PS: did you hear about the ELEVEN year old girl that ran 21:30 6k XC a few days ago? ELEVEN?!?!
On October 06 2015 11:44 Bonham wrote: What do you think is realistic for a 5k in December? I'll be curious to see your workouts on Strava and see how all that cycling translates.
Somewhere between 16:xx and 17:59. Provided I don't have achilles issues or anything dumb. That's a huge range, but I just plain don't know how much more weight I will lose, how quick fitness will come around, and how much my current weight loss will aid me.
Ask me again in 4-5 weeks and I'll have a pretty solid answer for what I think is reasonable. Right now there are just too many variables and unknowns. The only data points I have to go on are runs feeling nice and easy between 7:40-8:15 pace depending on the day, and a progression on the treadmill (so questionable accuracy) where I did last 2M in 12:02 and last mile 5:42. If that's close to reality I'm sitting pretty already.
On the plus side, just hit 66kg on the scale today, lightest I've even been by about half a kilo! Optimistically looking for 62kg or so by race day, but current rate of progress suggests 64-65kg by race day is more likely. That said, I started this year at 74kg, so it's been by FAR the best I've ever done controlling weight over the long term.
On October 06 2015 09:45 WoolySheep wrote: With that in mind I am wondering if the running masters here think it is feasible for me to get my Mile run down to 5 minutes (about 5:45 right now, probably more like 6 min since I stopped training so hard) and my 2M to 10-10:30. I would really like to challenge for a top spot in one of the annual 2M races I will be doing, and it seems like first place usually goes to a modest 10:45 runner. The race happens the beginning of August.
In order of difficulty those goals look something like this
sub 10 2M >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sub 10:30 2M >>>>>> sub 5 mile
If you're in shape to run 10:30 for 2M, you'll be looking at 4:50 for the mile, give or take a few seconds on either side.
As for the goal itself, the good news is that you have almost 10 months to worry about it, or two solid training cycles. That said, nothing in your current ability or progress suggests that getting there in a year is realistic. With 5 months of training you shaved about a minute of 10k, and 5 min or so off your half. First thing to realize is that is good progress. A minute off of your 10k PR in one season is some quality work.
However, when it comes to your goals you don't need solid progress, you need astronomical progress. I gave a similar answer to someone earlier, but basically the gist is that without:
1) Significant fat loss OR 2) Significant increase in weekly training volume OR 3) Going from doing nothing but easy runs to a very intelligent, periodized training plan
OR a combination of all three I don't think that is a realistic goal in the given time-frame. If you're very serious about this goal and dedicated to it, then this is what you need to do:
For the next training cycle, target running a good 5k in Feb/Mar. Take a look at how much you are running now, as well as your training program. Cookie cutter plans aren't always optimum, but for a self-coached athlete that hasn't yet learned what works particularly well or particularly poorly for him they are a good option. In other words, Daniels will do just fine. Consider shooting for an increase of 20-35% in weekly mileage (50-60mpw goal) before starting the Daniel's plan, then carry that forward into the actual training schedule itself.
If you have weight to lose, you need to make that a priority. I'd love to know your height/weight, but you're not going to run 10:00 2M at a BMI of 25+. Don't go crazy trying to run a massive deficit of calories, but make an effort to clean up the diet and eat just a bit less here and there.
Focus on doing that, and absolutely nailing your training for the next 5 months. Target running 19:30 for 5k, it's a pretty ambitious goal, but not one so out of reach that you can't even try workouts at that pace. If you do that, train smart with a sensible target, and have the ability you'll smash 19:30. Do that, and in March we can begin to think seriously about sub 10:30 2M.
Thanks for the insight, I_Master. I realize it is an unrealistic goal, but I tend to ream a lot. I would even be happy to work towards that goal over the next couple of years. I am a hair under 6 feet, 185 lbs with clothes on. Most of, if not all of my excess is around the middle area, and I definitely want to improve on that. My weakness has always been carbs.
not sure what kind of weight to aim for - 165-170? Are there any particular weight lifting programs I should also be doing?I really don't want to look like some of the more spindly pro runners.
I run about 30 miles a week right now (at about an 8 -8:30 pace - I know it's faster than my easy pace runs should be, but It appears to be my natural speed - is that a thing?) While I was training for (and felt my best) during the half marathon I was up to 50 miles a week. One question: on days where , say, I do interval training, should I still be doing a couple miles of easy pace to up the mileage?
On October 07 2015 06:18 WoolySheep wrote: Having a legitimate goal like that is absolutely a good thing. I have goals that are similarly lofty (5.5 w/kg FTP on the bike and sub 16' for 5k), but like you I'm nowhere near that ability right now. Having them in the back of my mind is good for motivation, but doing training to "target" either goal right now would be detrimental, as I'm so far away from those goals that I'd struggle to run 400m repeats at "goal" 5k pace.
I'm not even suggesting giving up the idea of getting to 10:30 in a year, but I did want to make it clear that's a major reach goal in that time frame. Basically, I'm trying to make sure you won't be totally heart-broken if you don't quite make that Aug 2016 10:30 goal. On the upside, if you train smart you never know what might be possible!
On October 07 2015 06:18 WoolySheep wrote: I am a hair under 6 feet, 185 lbs with clothes on. Most of, if not all of my excess is around the middle area, and I definitely want to improve on that. My weakness has always been carbs.
not sure what kind of weight to aim for - 165-170? Are there any particular weight lifting programs I should also be doing?I really don't want to look like some of the more spindly pro runners.
Yea, 6' 185lbs is definitely on the heavier side when it comes to running. It's pretty rare to see a sub 17' 5k guy at a size like that, regardless of whether it's fat or muscle. There are exceptions, but those are usually the guys that used to be 14' guys and then added bulk because they were done with collegiate competition and decided to try some weightlifting for a different look.
Weight is worth quiet a bit. Generally people improve about 1-2s per mile per lb of intelligent fat loss. So if you lose 15lbs you're looking at 1-1.5 min improvement over 5k. If you're smart about your eating, and develop the discipline and eating plan that works to allow sustained weight loss for you, that goal becomes much more realistic. At current weight, I don't think you have any chance at 10:30 in the short term, and not really in the long term either. If your serious about that goal, developing a good nutrition strategy that allows for healthy, sustained weight loss is far more important than any training you do.
I'd say for right now a goal of 170 is a good starting point. It's not an extreme amount, but should get you to the point of developing a good idea of how much more weight you can afford, or want, to lose. There is zero danger of you looking like a spindly pro runner until we start talking weights of like 150 or less. Most people aren't really even capable of getting that thin even if they were trying to. And no, with your goals looking like a spindly pro runner is certainly not an endgame requirement. However, losing most of your current fat and getting down around 7-8% body fat most certainly is.
On October 07 2015 06:18 WoolySheep wrote: I run about 30 miles a week right now (at about an 8 -8:30 pace - I know it's faster than my easy pace runs should be, but It appears to be my natural speed - is that a thing?) While I was training for (and felt my best) during the half marathon I was up to 50 miles a week. One question: on days where , say, I do interval training, should I still be doing a couple miles of easy pace to up the mileage?
That's a touch brisk for a normal easy run, but not by too much. 8:30-9:00 would probably be true easy for you, but at 30mpw doing days at 8-8:30 pace is not a problem at all.
When it comes to days with workouts, the mileage should happen naturally. In other words, if you are doing say... 5x1km with 2' recovery that's 3 miles worth of repeats, then another mile+ in recovery between reps so around 4 miles for the workout. Throw in the typical 1-2M of warm up and then of cool down and you're looking at between 6-8 miles for that session.
Dear TL runners, I am seeking advice about my running training program..! I'm sure here there are many people much more experienced than me, so I hope that someone can share his experience
I'm not completely new to running, I started in 2014 with a half-marathon (time 1:45) and two full marathons (time 4:20 and 3:57), and I kept going on 2015 with an other full marathon (time 3:44:42 :D goal here was sub 3:45 so I was very happy).
I never really had a detailed training program, when I ran the marathons I went with a local running group (I live in Paris) which run on Monday (10km) and Saturday (long runs, increasing the distance to arrive at 34-36km a couple weeks before the marathon) , but I never added a 3rd training session.
My next goal would be a half-marathon in ~December/beginning of January, so I should have some time to prepare, and I would like to follow a training schedule to improve a little bit wrt my past results (I feel that the improvement in the marathon time is mostly due to the experience I got from the previous runs, and a better management of the run during the race.. especially from the 2nd to the 3rd marathon, for which I trained very similarly).
Do you know any good ~12 weeks program for the HM ? And also, what should be my goal for this upcoming race ? I was thinking, maybe too optimistically, that I could have as 1st goal something around 1:30, and 2nd goal sub 1:40.
I did run (not in a race) 5km in less than 20min, and when I was well trained I could run 10km in ~43min (I am not however at that level now, since I haven't run very much in the past month)
What do you think?
Thank you!! And if there are some TL runners in Paris, don't hesitate to contact me if you want to go for a run
I've calculated my 5k target splits for the race. If anyone is up early and wants to track my progress, you can find my bib number here and (I think) track me with it here.
On October 07 2015 11:52 L_Master wrote: There is zero danger of you looking like a spindly pro runner until we start talking weights of like 150 or less. Most people aren't really even capable of getting that thin even if they were trying to. And no, with your goals looking like a spindly pro runner is certainly not an endgame requirement. However, losing most of your current fat and getting down around 7-8% body fat most certainly is.
Hey, speaking up for Team Spindly (6'2, 145lbs), there's a certain subset of ladies--not a majority, but definitely out there--who like 'em long and lean.
I'd take a single one of those 5k splits Bonham! Appreciate the ability to track, pumped to see how it goes, you've definitely gotten in another solid training cycle.
On October 08 2015 12:51 Bonham wrote: Hey, speaking up for Team Spindly (6'2, 145lbs), there's a certain subset of ladies--not a majority, but definitely out there--who like 'em long and lean.
Oh definitely. I've always thought that physique looks pretty damn good, especially if you do even a modicum of weight training so you really have some definition and don't look just skinny. The distance runners that look pure skinny are usually the ones that don't do any gym work at all.
Like come on...someone tell me Lopez Lomong doesn't have a pretty damn good body:
And he isn't carrying much in the way of muscle either, as he is 5'11" and 145lbs.
Also, first workout back today. 3x1k with 60" jog recovery.
3:39 3:39 3:34
Kept it short because I haven't run fast in a while and my overall volume is low. First one easy, second one was getting tougher, last one was pretty hard. Nothing to set the world alight, but for 8mpw I'd call it a good starting point.
after sth like 7 years not running at all i decided to run today.
sth short about me: i used to run quite often as a child till i got 15-16 years old. then i only did sport for fun and basically only did short sprints or slow jogging when doing sport. (mostly basketball,volleyball and badminton) in those 7 years the only "endurance" sport i did was cycling (around 2000km per year; mostly not longer than 30 minutes)
after around 2km i felt my calves really hard (not sure how to explain it) and i basically had to stop running. they didnt really pain though. i was running quite fast since im not used to run slowly anymore but i was surprised that i had to stop after 2km. now my question: did my calfmuscles adept to the sprinting and cycling strain and couldnt handle the switch?
On October 08 2015 14:44 L_Master wrote: I'd take a single one of those 5k splits Bonham! Appreciate the ability to track, pumped to see how it goes, you've definitely gotten in another solid training cycle.
Thanks! Never quite know if things will go as hoped until they actually do, but I've definitely put in some solid work for this.
On October 08 2015 14:46 L_Master wrote: Also, first workout back today. 3x1k with 60" jog recovery.
3:39 3:39 3:34
Kept it short because I haven't run fast in a while and my overall volume is low. First one easy, second one was getting tougher, last one was pretty hard. Nothing to set the world alight, but for 8mpw I'd call it a good starting point.
60 sec recovery is pretty legit for that. This is around 5k pace for you right now, correct? FWIW, my coach usually gives me 1 second of recovery for every 2 of hard running, so 10x(3 mins hard, 1:30 rest) is pretty standard. (Sometimes he's an evil jerk who makes me do 800s off 1min rest though...)
On October 08 2015 17:42 75 wrote: after sth like 7 years not running at all i decided to run today.
sth short about me: i used to run quite often as a child till i got 15-16 years old. then i only did sport for fun and basically only did short sprints or slow jogging when doing sport. (mostly basketball,volleyball and badminton) in those 7 years the only "endurance" sport i did was cycling (around 2000km per year; mostly not longer than 30 minutes)
after around 2km i felt my calves really hard (not sure how to explain it) and i basically had to stop running. they didnt really pain though. i was running quite fast since im not used to run slowly anymore but i was surprised that i had to stop after 2km. now my question: did my calfmuscles adept to the sprinting and cycling strain and couldnt handle the switch?
This is my usual struggle when I am building mileage. If you feeling is like mine it's almost like your calves get tighter and more strained as the run goes on, and they can be a little sore walking around afterword.
Everyone is different, but what works for me is:
1) Wait for there to be no more soreness walking/running 2) Add in the calf wall stretch + Show Spoiler +
holding each one for 45 seconds. Do 2-3 times a day. 3) After a couple days of the stretching, resume running but make sure to give an aggressive massage to the calf/Achilles after each run'
This regimen is my go to for problems with calves. Hopefully it can work for you as well.
On October 08 2015 14:46 L_Master wrote: Also, first workout back today. 3x1k with 60" jog recovery.
3:39 3:39 3:34
Kept it short because I haven't run fast in a while and my overall volume is low. First one easy, second one was getting tougher, last one was pretty hard. Nothing to set the world alight, but for 8mpw I'd call it a good starting point.
60 sec recovery is pretty legit for that. This is around 5k pace for you right now, correct? FWIW, my coach usually gives me 1 second of recovery for every 2 of hard running, so 10x(3 mins hard, 1:30 rest) is pretty standard. (Sometimes he's an evil jerk who makes me do 800s off 1min rest though...)
Hard to say, it's been such a while I almost forget what 5k feels like. Definitely at least 3k pace though, and if it's 5k pace I'd be super excited, opening up with something low 18s would be a pretty darn good start to the cycle as that would be just 20-30s away from my PR.
I'm actually working with a coach now myself, primarily for my cycling as there is a ton to learn about the actual art of racing bikes themselves, and also because training for cycling is so different. You need all skills. You need to be able to go for 5 hours, sprint at the end, respond with good 5' power, or be able to hold strong power for 60'. It's a bit like having to be in shape for 100m, 400m a surgy 1500m race, a HM, and an ultra all at once, but in the right flavors for each event.
The upside is that my coach was a 3:45 1500m runner, and has experience coaching several quality triathletes, so I trust him to help me balance the running with the cycling, more or less maximizing the running without totally losing touch with the cycling.
On October 08 2015 12:51 Bonham wrote: I've calculated my 5k target splits for the race. If anyone is up early and wants to track my progress, you can find my bib number here and (I think) track me with it here.
On October 07 2015 11:52 L_Master wrote: There is zero danger of you looking like a spindly pro runner until we start talking weights of like 150 or less. Most people aren't really even capable of getting that thin even if they were trying to. And no, with your goals looking like a spindly pro runner is certainly not an endgame requirement. However, losing most of your current fat and getting down around 7-8% body fat most certainly is.
Hey, speaking up for Team Spindly (6'2, 145lbs), there's a certain subset of ladies--not a majority, but definitely out there--who like 'em long and lean.
Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man! Live tracking! I'll definitely tune in, and wish you all the luck and none of the 'lactic while you're out there!
On October 08 2015 17:42 75 wrote: after sth like 7 years not running at all i decided to run today.
sth short about me: i used to run quite often as a child till i got 15-16 years old. then i only did sport for fun and basically only did short sprints or slow jogging when doing sport. (mostly basketball,volleyball and badminton) in those 7 years the only "endurance" sport i did was cycling (around 2000km per year; mostly not longer than 30 minutes)
after around 2km i felt my calves really hard (not sure how to explain it) and i basically had to stop running. they didnt really pain though. i was running quite fast since im not used to run slowly anymore but i was surprised that i had to stop after 2km. now my question: did my calfmuscles adept to the sprinting and cycling strain and couldnt handle the switch?
This is my usual struggle when I am building mileage. If you feeling is like mine it's almost like your calves get tighter and more strained as the run goes on, and they can be a little sore walking around afterword.
Everyone is different, but what works for me is:
1) Wait for there to be no more soreness walking/running 2) Add in the calf wall stretch + Show Spoiler +
holding each one for 45 seconds. Do 2-3 times a day. 3) After a couple days of the stretching, resume running but make sure to give an aggressive massage to the calf/Achilles after each run'
This regimen is my go to for problems with calves. Hopefully it can work for you as well.
thanks for the advice.
i have spoken with a friend who does triathlons and he also meant that my calves have to get stretched and showed me the two stretching methods. he also said i did the mistake to cycle up a hill before i started running. the low frequency and high load right before running accelerate that the calf muscles get sore (apparently some athletes shift the gear before they start running in a triathlon so they increase their pedal frequency)
well, today i learned why runners stretch their legs so much before they start running.
On October 09 2015 03:00 mtmentat wrote: Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man! Live tracking! I'll definitely tune in, and wish you all the luck and none of the 'lactic while you're out there!
Thanks boss! The support of my fellow TL nerds means a lot to me.
I've just started getting back into running (actually did my first 10 km training run in 3 years the other day, while being 10kg heavier than the last time I did one). I want to keep working at my running to be able to potentially do 5k/10k/half marathon 'races' next spring/summer. I read online that if you don't run at least 3 times per week you won't really see any long term improvement. I however also bike (about 25km x2 as a commute) 5-7 days a week, practice karate (1-3 times per week) and am trying to teach myself how to swim. So at the moment I can't really run 3 times a week without sacrificing a lot of my other activities, which are important to me for various reasons.
How true is the 3x per week thing to see improvement? With all the sporting I'll be doing this winter my general fitness will improve ofcourse and that should benefit my running I guess, but that would be true even if I didn't run. So, how much of a point is there to running if I can't do 3x per week? And assuming I'm sticking to 1 day a week, what would be the best way to improve (speed being more important to me than mileage at this point)?
I've been lazy about uploading to Strava but my marathon cycle has gone fairly well again this year, I am definitely feeling good about running sub 4 finally. My race is two weeks from tomorrow (Marine Corps for the 3rd year in a row) ran a 22 miler last week, averaged 9/mile which is right on pace for sub 4 and I felt fine after. I think no matter what on race day I will run the first 20 at 9/mile, or as close to 9/mile as I can due to crowds etc. and then pick it up a bit gradually over the last 10k.
usually the first 5-6 miles are very hard to pace in a race this big because of crowd size, its kind of annoying how they don't do a wave start for a 30,000 person event. Probably my only complaint about this marathon, you get all kinds of slow people lining up way too far forward and it creates a mess of a first few miles.
After this I'm going to be spending the winter focusing for shorter stuff next spring, I know I'm capable of running faster 5K/10K's with proper speedwork.
On October 09 2015 03:00 mtmentat wrote: Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man! Live tracking! I'll definitely tune in, and wish you all the luck and none of the 'lactic while you're out there!
Thanks boss! The support of my fellow TL nerds means a lot to me.
On October 09 2015 03:00 mtmentat wrote: Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man! Live tracking! I'll definitely tune in, and wish you all the luck and none of the 'lactic while you're out there!
Thanks boss! The support of my fellow TL nerds means a lot to me.
Good Luck!!!! :D
Two questions for you guys:
a) I see all of you use Strava: do I have to use a gps/tracking device while running to update my results, or can I just use it to log my training by hand? I don't have any fancy watch and I don't like to run with my phone so I usually just take my time with a simple watch e and make sure I know how many km I'm running
b) finally back to running! Yesterday I went for a long run (it probably would have been better to restart slower / shorter distance, but I went with this group that trains here.. that's the best way to find the motivation to go for me, at least the first times ): 21.something km in 1h52min... I wasn't feeling super good in the second half of the run, but I'm happy I did it to the end (without feeling *too* bad)
Well, Bonham cruised through halfway right on pace, looks like he started a smidge slow and eased into it; usually a good approach. The only downside, if the tracker is to be believed, is that he has absolutely no competition. There is a nice pack of like 5 guys, but they are 8' back at halfway.
Still, if it's his day he is in perfect shape. Unless there is elevation change I don't know about his execution looks great. Fingers crossed he caught a good day!
Results should be further along I think...but it appears that for everyone there isn't much beyond halfway.
Next split is in. Little slower at 3:37/k (2:32 pace) but still just inside schedule. Into the critical 10k now, hopefully that was a conscious decision to ease off over the last 10k, and it may well have been given he just ran that 3:30 split.
If not, I'm worried. 6 s/km is a lot to lose over 10k, especially with the critical last 10-11km coming up.
Next split just in, 3:35. That's good news, as it means he isn't dying early and probably backed off by choice.
Still, 2:30 is going to be tough, as he is on 2:30:40 pace right now. Should be a pretty damn good race either way, but come on Bonham, rally over those last 7km!!!!!!!!!
Dang. Last 7km really caught up to him. Slowed down to 3:55/km pace. Still good enough for 2:33:15
Not quite as fast as he could have gone, but still a pretty damn good race! A huge 6 minute PR from less than a year ago, and well inside the B goal. I know you would have loved to have those 3 extra minutes back Bonham, but seriously nice race man!
Oh and did I mention, he WON THE MARATHON! That's pretty cool in it's own right.
I had a much more minor note today. But I did much much better than I thought I would--1:27:47 in the spokane half marathon.
Pacing wise I call it an excellent race for me since I didn't burn too bad. Was doing 6:40/mile throughout (actually fast in the middle but appropriately sped up; 13:30 2mi, 33:30 5mi but 53:08ish 8 mi iirc). The last bit yea did slow down but there is a pretty good climb right at miles 9 or so and I knew I would be tired.
Shout outs to like 15 people I passed because they can't pace themselves at all. I don't think anyone passed me in the race (not that it was super competitive, and the winners of course just took off from the start).
Hey guys, thanks for all the good karma you sent my way. It means more to me than I can say.
L_Master is right that it was a total time trial. The demon of hamstring cramps, who got to me in Portland last year, again got his claws into me in the critical part of today's race.
I fought him off as best I could. Felt real good until about 25k, then things got stinky, then things got good, then at 33k things got real stinky. The last four k were the slowest of the whole race, but I'm the most proud of them because my body wanted to quit and I didn't. I'll write a characteristically loquacious race report later this week, but for now I just want to say how grateful I am to chat about running with y'all. Distance is truth!
On October 12 2015 02:20 L_Master wrote: Dang. Last 7km really caught up to him. Slowed down to 3:55/km pace. Still good enough for 2:33:15
Not quite as fast as he could have gone, but still a pretty damn good race! A huge 6 minute PR from less than a year ago, and well inside the B goal. I know you would have loved to have those 3 extra minutes back Bonham, but seriously nice race man!
Oh and did I mention, he WON THE MARATHON! That's pretty cool in it's own right.
Thank you very much for posting the blow-by-blows today, L_Master. I had hoped to get back from run to tune into the early game, but ended up with ~2.5 hrs out and about myself (for a total of 15km LOL).
Bonham, you are a frickin inspiration, man! That effort, especially without anyone to key off of is simply stunning and well-deserved (you've put in the miles). Way to burn it up!
On October 12 2015 11:15 Bonham wrote: Hey guys, thanks for all the good karma you sent my way. It means more to me than I can say.
L_Master is right that it was a total time trial. The demon of hamstring cramps, who got to me in Portland last year, again got his claws into me in the critical part of today's race.
I fought him off as best I could. Felt real good until about 25k, then things got stinky, then things got good, then at 33k things got real stinky. The last four k were the slowest of the whole race, but I'm the most proud of them because my body wanted to quit and I didn't. I'll write a characteristically loquacious race report later this week, but for now I just want to say how grateful I am to chat about running with y'all. Distance is truth!
So awesome. Saw the run on strava, epic.
Can't wait for the in depth report. Super awesome to take home a win too!
3:35.3 avg. So averaged for 4 reps what my final cut-down rep was last week. I'll have to see how exactly I race on Saturday but right now I'm definitely thinking for my end of season target
"A" Goal - Sub 17 "B" Goal - Sub 17:15 "C" Goal Sub 17:30
Unless something goes really wrong I feel confident in the C goal. My "A" goal is a reach goal, but I'm still dropping weight, and only have a week and a half of actual running under me so far. Looking forward to Saturday, and hoping I can race okay despite not having run a race in over a year and a half, that last 2k is going to be tough, haven't been in running style hurt locker in a long, long time.
Good luck, L_Master! I'll be very interested to see how it goes, based on the splits for 1k it'll be pretty tough to hit the goal(s) but I'm definitely rooting for you all the same! Don't let it not hurt in the last mile!
On October 15 2015 22:42 mtmentat wrote: Good luck, L_Master! I'll be very interested to see how it goes, based on the splits for 1k it'll be pretty tough to hit the goal(s) but I'm definitely rooting for you all the same! Don't let it not hurt in the last mile!
Agree. I do not expect to run sub 17:30 on Saturday. Those are my end of season goals for a few months from now.
On October 15 2015 22:42 mtmentat wrote: Good luck, L_Master! I'll be very interested to see how it goes, based on the splits for 1k it'll be pretty tough to hit the goal(s) but I'm definitely rooting for you all the same! Don't let it not hurt in the last mile!
Agree. I do not expect to run sub 17:30 on Saturday. Those are my end of season goals for a few months from now.
Sorry, was reading it too quickly this morning (and incorrectly). You can totally hit those times by the end of this year, barring injury. You and me, both, hopefully - I still can't break 17 after trying very hard with speed work and racing this year /may have to cut out the ice cream. Have fun on Saturday!
Good luck L_Master! FWIW, I always find the middle mile of a 5k the hardest. First one goes by on adrenaline, and the final is one big lactic acid party, but the middle tends to sag. Stay focused my friend!
Today was cool. 17:56. I'm calling that a 26s PR + Show Spoiler +
allegedly I have run 17:51, but or the circumstances of the race, course, and the way I felt I've never quite bought it
! Not bad for an average of 10mpw.
Equally encouraging is the fact that I had quite a bit more in the tank. That was closer to a "hard tempo" than it was to how a 5k is supposed to hurt. Certainly had 17:45 in me today, and possible 17:3x.
The chase for sub 17 I will now declare formally ON. The bad news is this is probably the fastest course I will race. Not only is at as close to pancake flat as you get in CO, it's also at 5,100ft, about 1500ft lower in elevation than where I normally race. I can now see it as a possible goal, but it won't be easy. I might get one more shot at a truly fast course if I decide to enter a collegiate indoor 5000 in December. Will depend on how competitive I feel like I can be, and whether or not I've already broken 17. If so, I'll probably run just the mile/1500.
MTA: Holy fuck. There was this old looking dude in front of me for the first 2k or so, turns out he hung on for 18:11. Listed at 69 years old. DAMN!!!
Nice moves, man. Sub-18 on that little mileage definitely means 16:xx is possible with more training. Noodling around on my bike and getting dropped by fat dudes in spandex this past week has given me a renewed appreciation for the power of specialization in endurance activity.
I had some things I had to shake off my head this afternoon, so I went for a 5K and tried to push myself a bit. It's pathetic compared to some of you, but i'm quite pleased by my improvement: my last 5k was 24:42 and i ran this one in 22:27 (https://www.strava.com/activities/415553497) A nice objective would be to run a 10k at this pace, if i don't injure myself it should be doable no? I don't realize if it's realistic, if I go for longer runs my knees end up really sore for 1 or 2 days, to the point where it's really bothering to walk so it's a bit scary .
“If you're going to die, die with your boots on.” – Iron Maiden, “Die With Your Boots On,” 1983
When I came by City Park in Kelowna to pick up my bib for the Okanagan Marathon, a children's race was about to start. It was a 1K road race, one of those novelty events race organizers sometimes hold on the day before the race proper. I was interested to observe that the tendency to go out hot and blow up, as common in fully-grown road runners as enthusiasm for finisher's medals, apparently begins well before puberty. A horde of children, some of whom looked like they'd just recently learned to walk, stampeded down the road and around the first turn. The course ran a short circuit around the race pavilion, so I was able to see every single racer tie up on the back stretch and walk home. Take note: apparently you can hit the wall even in a thousand metre race.
Later I went to a Korean place for lunch with my family and girlfriend, all of whom had travelled long distances to come see me run. Halfway through my bowl of noodle soup, panic gripped me. It suddenly dawned on me that there had been a little shredded red cabbage garnishing the dish, and I'd eaten it without a second thought. As I'd learned the hard way in training that raw cabbage was to my GI system what the Death Star was to Alderaan, I was concerned. I even asked my girlfriend, who is a physician, if she could get me an emetic on short notice. Sensibly, she declined.
I often have trouble sleeping the night before a race, but this marathon was particularly bad. Lying on a squishy couch bed in our rented condo, I tossed and turned and turned and tossed without end. I listened to the wind, which sounded like it was blowing at hurricane-force. Sleep eventually came, but not for long. Four thirty, it turns out, comes pretty early in the morning.
Prerace breakfast was steel-cut oats with a little milk and jam, and a few cups of coffee. To my relief, my guts were moving well, and I took advantage of the fact that everyone else was asleep to make liberal use of the bathroom. Around 5, my girlfriend got up and ate a bit of oatmeal with me. As someone with Known Executive Capabilities, she's a comfort to me whenever I'm feeling nervous, and I seldom feel more nervous than I did that morning.
This race weighed on me like no other in my memory. I'd had an uneven season despite some pretty solid training, punctuated by a disappointing half marathon in August. Training had gone quite well since then, though, and I knew if everything went well I could break 2:30 today. But what if everything didn't go well? My mind churned with fears of wind, of rain, of going off-course, of screwing up my feed schedule, of getting scalped in the last five k, of getting sabotaged by my bowels. More than anything, I didn't want to quit if things got tough. I'd really phoned in that half marathon and the experience of throwing a mid-race pity party for yourself was not one I wanted to repeat.
Then she pinned my bib onto my singlet, I put on my uniform and warmup clothes, and we piled into a car to go down to the start race. My parents, along with my brother and sister-in-law, sensibly slept a bit more and met us later.
A word about this uniform: I received a modest sponsorship this year. In exchange for some free shoes and discounts on running clothes, I'm obliged to wear a pair of very short shorts and a singlet that, combined, but barely meet the demands of decency. I've gotten used to them, but when I first tried them on I remember feeling like I was not too far from running around in my underwear. Good thing I wouldn't be wearing this in some situation where my picture would be taken a bunch, right? Right.
The race site was dark and very quiet when we arrived. The Okanagan Marathon is not huge, and one of the advantages of its size is that parking is easier to find, and lineups to portapotties shorter. The downside of a small race is that the organization might be suspect, and the odds of finding someone to run with are lower.
So I used the biff, warmed up, and made my way to the start line. I also ran into a bunch of runners I knew here. This year I met almost all of the players in Edmonton's running scene, and a bunch were around the start to run the half marathon, which started 30 minutes after the full. It would be my last time i familiar company for the rest of the morning.
I wasn't quite sure what to expect when the gun went off. I knew from looking at previous winning times and chatting with some running friends that I was probably going to run most of the race on my own. But who knows how the first 10k will roll? Someone might try to hang and blow up real bad. Maybe a 2:2x guy would be there and drag me along for a bit.
Instead, I was on my own after about 100 metres. With a weird mix of excitement and resignation, I tried to settle in. Excitement because I'd been building to this race since May and knew I had it in me to run a good time. Resignation because the first half of a marathon is such a test of patience–if it feels like you're working, you're working too hard. There's nothing to do but sit back and let the miles roll by, and I've never been a particularly patient guy.
To pass the time, I chatted with the cyclists a bit. I had two with me at that point, and they were as eager for stimulation as me. They asked me my PRs, my age, and my goals. I asked them if they'd switch with me after 20 miles.
Goal pace was 3:32/km, and it felt just like marathon pace should. We noodled out through an industrial area, then back along the shore of Lake Okanagan. Kelowna is a pretty hilly town, but the Okanagan course is very flat. This flatness comes at a price: the half marathon course has lots of turns in it, and the full course is just two laps of the half route. Since the half starts a haf hour after the full, I was going to have to pass a good portion of the half marathon field in the second half of the race, when energy stores are low and decision-making is suspect.
I popped my first gel at 5k, though I was not remotely hungry. I'm a firm believer that running a good marathon is as much about nailing the intra-race nutrition as anything else, and after much experimentation and hand-wringing had decided to take gel at 5k, 15k, 25k, and 35k. A schedule like this had worked pretty well in training, though I'd never taken four in one run.
After about eight k, I had my first taste of what you might call the mass media angle of this experience. I was already a good ways ahead of the rest of the field, and some dude I didn't know from Adam rolled up on his bike and started snapping pictures of me. He didn't introduce himself or ask me if I minded or anything. Our only conversation came when I pointed out some cars approaching on the other side of the road, as he was riding in the left lane. After about ten minutes he rode off.
Ten miles in, the course crossed one of Kelowna's many 60 kph speed limit roads. Cars have seldom heard a discouraging word from pedestrians in Kelowna, and they drive like they are used to it. The course marshals mistakenly let a taxi cab onto the road just as I was approaching. Dude must have been making 70 kph as I came to the crossing. I was weighing whether the forces of cosmic justice would protect me if I didn't interrupt my stride to let him pass when my cyclists showed great courage and stopped in the middle of the road before I hit it. The taxi slammed on its breaks and I went through the intersection with no problem.
I hit halfway right on schedule at 1:14 high and passed through the finish zone. There was a good sized crowd there by now, and I heard my name come over the sound system and saw my family and people started to cheer for me, including my girlfriend adorably waving her arms like an air-traffic controller. This gave me a little boost of adrenaline and I felt very, very strong as I cruised through and started my second lap.
The legs started to feel a bit heavy here, but I wasn't panicked. I knew I'd put in some good work and feeling a little tired was OK. One of the benefits of this two-lap course was that I had a lot of encouragement from the other runners. People would say “look at him go!” or “holy shit!” or whatnot as I passed by, which for the most part made up for the hassle of navigating around them as I tried to run the tangents. Accessing the water stations was also harder from here, but my cyclist, sterling guy that he was, realized this. He started to ask me if I wanted water as we approached a station, then he'd ride ahead, let them know, and get someone out onto the left side of the course to hand me drink. What a guy!
Around 25k I started to feel a bit rough. The day was a bit hotter and windier than ideal conditions, and with no one to race against I had little to occupy my mind other than the next ten daunting miles. Twenty five to 30k was not great, though looking at the splits in retrospect I can see I didn't slow at all until I hit 30k. I ran that one in 3:42 and the next two at the same speed. It dawned on me that 2:2x probably was not going to happen to day at this point, but I thought that 2:3-low was still possible and I resolved to push as much as I could. I got under 3:40/km for the next three.
Then I hit 35k and popped my final gel. My stomach felt very unhappy about this and instantly cramped. Looking at my splits now, I'm amazed at how quickly this makes itself felt. I ran the thirty-sixth k in 3:52, then 3:49 and 3:55.
This was when the marathon really had me in its house of pain. I tried to spit, but I lacked the necessary energy so this gross gobbet to phlem stuck to my face. I also lacked the energy to wipe it away, so it hung there for the rest of the race. I tried to croak a joke to my cyclist about switching. Recognizing my distress, he tried to get the half marathoners to give me a cheer, but when they cheered all I could do was stare and grimace at them. Smiling was not possible and their adulation brought no comfort.
Everyone dreams about digging deep and charging through the last few miles of a marathon, but as I entered the home stretch all I could think about was making the pain stop. Over the final four k I slowed to what felt like a total death march. My stomach complained. Three separate times my hamstrings spasmed violently. It felt just like Portland last year. I knew if they seized up, not only would I DNF, I might collapse and smack my head on the asphalt.
It felt like the cells in my body banded together in a supermajority and presented my prefrontal cortex with a unanimous petition to stop moving immediately. Issuing the a veto took all the willpower at my disposal. It hurt so much I forgot to enjoy winning a marathon for the first time in my life. I stopped looking at my watch. I stopped hearing the cheers of the crowd, increasingly loud as I approached the finish. I staggered onward and wondered if being dead would feel better than this.
I waddled up the finishing chute and over the line, then shuffled over to the barricade to hug my girlfriend. My amazing family all hugged my sweaty, spit-stained body without the slightest hesitation. After a few minutes, I turned around to find a bottle of water to drink.
A pack of reporters was waiting for me. With no preamble, they started spitting questions. How did I deal with the wind? Was it hard to race on my own? Was it fun to win? What did I think about the organization? I stammered out whatever nonsense came to mind into the bouquet of hungry microphones. After five or ten minutes, they left me in peace.
Looking back, I’m most proud of those final four k. I ran them pretty slow--about 4:04 on average--but I didn’t give up the way I had at the half marathon in August. I’m not sure I really embraced the suffering the way the best runners do in the last quarter of a marathon (and like I know I can when things go well), but when things hurt the most I kept fighting. I died, but at least I died with my boots on. That’s an encouraging thought.
In the final analysis, I can say the following things went sideways on me:
1 The last gel really stung. I lost 13 seconds/k right after I took it, and things only got worse from there. I don’t know if I should have just had three and spread them out more, or waited more to eat the final one, or tried liquid calories or what, but I need to make some changes to nutrition for the next one. 2 This is the second marathon in row where I’ve had my legs freak out and spasm in the final stretch. I need to figure out what makes this happen and prevent it. One of my running buddies prescribed coconut water the night before a race to me when I told him about Portland. At the time I thought he was crazy--he’s never met a supplement he didn’t like--but I may revisit his council for my next marathon. 3 The weather was unexpectedly hot and windy. Not disastrously so, but an appreciable distance from ideal conditions. 4 Running the whole thing as a time trial made it harder to really lean in when the going got tough. 5 I failed to realize how terrible my form looked at the precise point when everyone in Kelowna would be taking a picture of me. The photos local newspaper photographers took of me as I finished make it look like I race-walked the whole distance.
All in all, though, it was a really fun experience. Despite everything that went wrong, I still took six minutes off my old PB and confirmed that I can break 2:30 next year if I keep working. My guts didn’t betray me and I didn’t get lost. Plus I had a lot of fun and got to break the tape for the first time ever.
I can’t wait to get back at it, though the few easy runs I’ve tried in the week after the race have confirmed that I should probably wait a bit more.
L_Master, can you explain cycling to me? Yesterday on my ride this dude with silver hair in spandex passed me about 20 minutes into my ride. I was thinking "Oh well, I'm not really a cyclist, whatever" and resigning to let him go when I noticed just how fat he was. I thought "this will not stand, man." I wound up chasing this dude at 35kph for ten k over flat ground. The whole time, he had this smirk on his face that told me he was totally toying with me.
What the hell is going on? His bike might have been a bit lighter than mine, but if that man can run 5k in 25 minutes I am the Queen of France. Is biking just a BS sport full of garbage, or was dude on EPO?
On flat ground the energy you're spending is only used to compensate the energy lost to friction (on the road and against the wind) so weight is not really a factor. Weight is only a factor when you're going uphill
That made me laugh Bonham, that's a situation most newer cyclists face and have no words to explain what happened. But it's completely normal.
Going at 35kph for 10k flat is not really a big deal for someone with some cycling training. And that fat man probably has years if not decades of cycling, there are plenty of older people that ride for longer than I live and have done so consistently over the years though not competing in any race. And for all we know he might have actually raced when younger. Riding and running are 2 very different sports, running well doesn't make you cycle well and vice-versa. The effort is significantly different, though I'm not the best person to explain it in detail since I know little about which muscles are used and that stuff.
Plus you got to remember that weight is almost irrelevant in flat surfaces, once you gain the momentum you only have to overcome the ground and mostly air friction. Only when going uphill the weight difference becomes relevant and it does matter a lot. For a typical climbing situation (7% grade, rider weight of 70kg) you can save around 5s/kg/mile. So maybe next time you can ask him to go climb some nearby hill and smirk when he is sweating trying to keep up with you :p
On October 20 2015 21:09 Bonham wrote: L_Master, can you explain cycling to me? Yesterday on my ride this dude with silver hair in spandex passed me about 20 minutes into my ride. I was thinking "Oh well, I'm not really a cyclist, whatever" and resigning to let him go when I noticed just how fat he was. I thought "this will not stand, man." I wound up chasing this dude at 35kph for ten k over flat ground. The whole time, he had this smirk on his face that told me he was totally toying with me.
What the hell is going on? His bike might have been a bit lighter than mine, but if that man can run 5k in 25 minutes I am the Queen of France. Is biking just a BS sport full of garbage, or was dude on EPO?
My first question is what kind of tires are on your bike? Jake the Snake is what is called a cross bike, and is basically a road bike with some small changes that make it a little more suitable for handling sand, mud, and a little gravel. The big question is the tires, do they look like + Show Spoiler [this] +
If you've got something more like the first tire I posted that's going to have a significant impact on your speed. Can never say for sure, but could easily be worth 1-3 kph in speed. Knobby tires are designed to grip better while cornering on loose surfaces, but they have a greater contact area and more irregularity with the ground and thus require more energy to roll.
Also in that vein, what sort of clothing were you wearing? If you've got flappy shorts and a loose TShirt you're losing something noticeable above 30kph
Beyond that, you said this was on flat ground. When riding on the flats there is a very, very minimal penalty for the actual difference in weight. It's like something that would take you from 8:00 pace to 8:10 pace. All extra weight does on the flats is marginally increase rolling resistance of the tires, but at decent speeds like 35+ kph 95% or more of your power is going to overcome wind resistance, which doesn't care how fat you are. Granted, a fat guy generally will take up a little more space in the wind, but with good position the difference becomes not that much greater than a skinny dude.
Now, most big guys tend to have more power because they have more body and muscle mass to work with. So rolling resistance nor wind hurt them that bad on the flat, but they have much more power, and thus can really zip along on the flats. A 120kg guy on flat ground pushing 260 watts is going to blow away a skinny dude weighing 60kg and pushing. 200W. Head to a decent hill with those numbers and it all changes, the 60kg guy will go up the climb probably 30% faster.
It's also worth noting that while this chubster is not going to run 25' 5k because he is way too heavy, he is pretty fit. If you're going 35kph that takes some effort, probably like 7:15 -7:30 pace equivalent for running. If that guy was just chilling pushing that he's probably got an FTP (one hour wattage) in the upper 200s. That's reasonable power for a weekend warrior.
On October 19 2015 06:54 Bonham wrote: A wild race report appears! (Warning: I attempted to spend more time writing this thing than it took to run the actual race. 2600 words, baby!)
“If you're going to die, die with your boots on.” – Iron Maiden, “Die With Your Boots On,” 1983
When I came by City Park in Kelowna to pick up my bib for the Okanagan Marathon, a children's race was about to start. It was a 1K road race, one of those novelty events race organizers sometimes hold on the day before the race proper. I was interested to observe that the tendency to go out hot and blow up, as common in fully-grown road runners as enthusiasm for finisher's medals, apparently begins well before puberty. A horde of children, some of whom looked like they'd just recently learned to walk, stampeded down the road and around the first turn. The course ran a short circuit around the race pavilion, so I was able to see every single racer tie up on the back stretch and walk home. Take note: apparently you can hit the wall even in a thousand metre race.
Later I went to a Korean place for lunch with my family and girlfriend, all of whom had travelled long distances to come see me run. Halfway through my bowl of noodle soup, panic gripped me. It suddenly dawned on me that there had been a little shredded red cabbage garnishing the dish, and I'd eaten it without a second thought. As I'd learned the hard way in training that raw cabbage was to my GI system what the Death Star was to Alderaan, I was concerned. I even asked my girlfriend, who is a physician, if she could get me an emetic on short notice. Sensibly, she declined.
I often have trouble sleeping the night before a race, but this marathon was particularly bad. Lying on a squishy couch bed in our rented condo, I tossed and turned and turned and tossed without end. I listened to the wind, which sounded like it was blowing at hurricane-force. Sleep eventually came, but not for long. Four thirty, it turns out, comes pretty early in the morning.
Prerace breakfast was steel-cut oats with a little milk and jam, and a few cups of coffee. To my relief, my guts were moving well, and I took advantage of the fact that everyone else was asleep to make liberal use of the bathroom. Around 5, my girlfriend got up and ate a bit of oatmeal with me. As someone with Known Executive Capabilities, she's a comfort to me whenever I'm feeling nervous, and I seldom feel more nervous than I did that morning.
This race weighed on me like no other in my memory. I'd had an uneven season despite some pretty solid training, punctuated by a disappointing half marathon in August. Training had gone quite well since then, though, and I knew if everything went well I could break 2:30 today. But what if everything didn't go well? My mind churned with fears of wind, of rain, of going off-course, of screwing up my feed schedule, of getting scalped in the last five k, of getting sabotaged by my bowels. More than anything, I didn't want to quit if things got tough. I'd really phoned in that half marathon and the experience of throwing a mid-race pity party for yourself was not one I wanted to repeat.
Then she pinned my bib onto my singlet, I put on my uniform and warmup clothes, and we piled into a car to go down to the start race. My parents, along with my brother and sister-in-law, sensibly slept a bit more and met us later.
A word about this uniform: I received a modest sponsorship this year. In exchange for some free shoes and discounts on running clothes, I'm obliged to wear a pair of very short shorts and a singlet that, combined, but barely meet the demands of decency. I've gotten used to them, but when I first tried them on I remember feeling like I was not too far from running around in my underwear. Good thing I wouldn't be wearing this in some situation where my picture would be taken a bunch, right? Right.
The race site was dark and very quiet when we arrived. The Okanagan Marathon is not huge, and one of the advantages of its size is that parking is easier to find, and lineups to portapotties shorter. The downside of a small race is that the organization might be suspect, and the odds of finding someone to run with are lower.
So I used the biff, warmed up, and made my way to the start line. I also ran into a bunch of runners I knew here. This year I met almost all of the players in Edmonton's running scene, and a bunch were around the start to run the half marathon, which started 30 minutes after the full. It would be my last time i familiar company for the rest of the morning.
I wasn't quite sure what to expect when the gun went off. I knew from looking at previous winning times and chatting with some running friends that I was probably going to run most of the race on my own. But who knows how the first 10k will roll? Someone might try to hang and blow up real bad. Maybe a 2:2x guy would be there and drag me along for a bit.
Instead, I was on my own after about 100 metres. With a weird mix of excitement and resignation, I tried to settle in. Excitement because I'd been building to this race since May and knew I had it in me to run a good time. Resignation because the first half of a marathon is such a test of patience–if it feels like you're working, you're working too hard. There's nothing to do but sit back and let the miles roll by, and I've never been a particularly patient guy.
To pass the time, I chatted with the cyclists a bit. I had two with me at that point, and they were as eager for stimulation as me. They asked me my PRs, my age, and my goals. I asked them if they'd switch with me after 20 miles.
Goal pace was 3:32/km, and it felt just like marathon pace should. We noodled out through an industrial area, then back along the shore of Lake Okanagan. Kelowna is a pretty hilly town, but the Okanagan course is very flat. This flatness comes at a price: the half marathon course has lots of turns in it, and the full course is just two laps of the half route. Since the half starts a haf hour after the full, I was going to have to pass a good portion of the half marathon field in the second half of the race, when energy stores are low and decision-making is suspect.
I popped my first gel at 5k, though I was not remotely hungry. I'm a firm believer that running a good marathon is as much about nailing the intra-race nutrition as anything else, and after much experimentation and hand-wringing had decided to take gel at 5k, 15k, 25k, and 35k. A schedule like this had worked pretty well in training, though I'd never taken four in one run.
After about eight k, I had my first taste of what you might call the mass media angle of this experience. I was already a good ways ahead of the rest of the field, and some dude I didn't know from Adam rolled up on his bike and started snapping pictures of me. He didn't introduce himself or ask me if I minded or anything. Our only conversation came when I pointed out some cars approaching on the other side of the road, as he was riding in the left lane. After about ten minutes he rode off.
Ten miles in, the course crossed one of Kelowna's many 60 kph speed limit roads. Cars have seldom heard a discouraging word from pedestrians in Kelowna, and they drive like they are used to it. The course marshals mistakenly let a taxi cab onto the road just as I was approaching. Dude must have been making 70 kph as I came to the crossing. I was weighing whether the forces of cosmic justice would protect me if I didn't interrupt my stride to let him pass when my cyclists showed great courage and stopped in the middle of the road before I hit it. The taxi slammed on its breaks and I went through the intersection with no problem.
I hit halfway right on schedule at 1:14 high and passed through the finish zone. There was a good sized crowd there by now, and I heard my name come over the sound system and saw my family and people started to cheer for me, including my girlfriend adorably waving her arms like an air-traffic controller. This gave me a little boost of adrenaline and I felt very, very strong as I cruised through and started my second lap.
The legs started to feel a bit heavy here, but I wasn't panicked. I knew I'd put in some good work and feeling a little tired was OK. One of the benefits of this two-lap course was that I had a lot of encouragement from the other runners. People would say “look at him go!” or “holy shit!” or whatnot as I passed by, which for the most part made up for the hassle of navigating around them as I tried to run the tangents. Accessing the water stations was also harder from here, but my cyclist, sterling guy that he was, realized this. He started to ask me if I wanted water as we approached a station, then he'd ride ahead, let them know, and get someone out onto the left side of the course to hand me drink. What a guy!
Around 25k I started to feel a bit rough. The day was a bit hotter and windier than ideal conditions, and with no one to race against I had little to occupy my mind other than the next ten daunting miles. Twenty five to 30k was not great, though looking at the splits in retrospect I can see I didn't slow at all until I hit 30k. I ran that one in 3:42 and the next two at the same speed. It dawned on me that 2:2x probably was not going to happen to day at this point, but I thought that 2:3-low was still possible and I resolved to push as much as I could. I got under 3:40/km for the next three.
Then I hit 35k and popped my final gel. My stomach felt very unhappy about this and instantly cramped. Looking at my splits now, I'm amazed at how quickly this makes itself felt. I ran the thirty-sixth k in 3:52, then 3:49 and 3:55.
This was when the marathon really had me in its house of pain. I tried to spit, but I lacked the necessary energy so this gross gobbet to phlem stuck to my face. I also lacked the energy to wipe it away, so it hung there for the rest of the race. I tried to croak a joke to my cyclist about switching. Recognizing my distress, he tried to get the half marathoners to give me a cheer, but when they cheered all I could do was stare and grimace at them. Smiling was not possible and their adulation brought no comfort.
Everyone dreams about digging deep and charging through the last few miles of a marathon, but as I entered the home stretch all I could think about was making the pain stop. Over the final four k I slowed to what felt like a total death march. My stomach complained. Three separate times my hamstrings spasmed violently. It felt just like Portland last year. I knew if they seized up, not only would I DNF, I might collapse and smack my head on the asphalt.
It felt like the cells in my body banded together in a supermajority and presented my prefrontal cortex with a unanimous petition to stop moving immediately. Issuing the a veto took all the willpower at my disposal. It hurt so much I forgot to enjoy winning a marathon for the first time in my life. I stopped looking at my watch. I stopped hearing the cheers of the crowd, increasingly loud as I approached the finish. I staggered onward and wondered if being dead would feel better than this.
I waddled up the finishing chute and over the line, then shuffled over to the barricade to hug my girlfriend. My amazing family all hugged my sweaty, spit-stained body without the slightest hesitation. After a few minutes, I turned around to find a bottle of water to drink.
A pack of reporters was waiting for me. With no preamble, they started spitting questions. How did I deal with the wind? Was it hard to race on my own? Was it fun to win? What did I think about the organization? I stammered out whatever nonsense came to mind into the bouquet of hungry microphones. After five or ten minutes, they left me in peace.
Looking back, I’m most proud of those final four k. I ran them pretty slow--about 4:04 on average--but I didn’t give up the way I had at the half marathon in August. I’m not sure I really embraced the suffering the way the best runners do in the last quarter of a marathon (and like I know I can when things go well), but when things hurt the most I kept fighting. I died, but at least I died with my boots on. That’s an encouraging thought.
In the final analysis, I can say the following things went sideways on me:
1 The last gel really stung. I lost 13 seconds/k right after I took it, and things only got worse from there. I don’t know if I should have just had three and spread them out more, or waited more to eat the final one, or tried liquid calories or what, but I need to make some changes to nutrition for the next one. 2 This is the second marathon in row where I’ve had my legs freak out and spasm in the final stretch. I need to figure out what makes this happen and prevent it. One of my running buddies prescribed coconut water the night before a race to me when I told him about Portland. At the time I thought he was crazy--he’s never met a supplement he didn’t like--but I may revisit his council for my next marathon. 3 The weather was unexpectedly hot and windy. Not disastrously so, but an appreciable distance from ideal conditions. 4 Running the whole thing as a time trial made it harder to really lean in when the going got tough. 5 I failed to realize how terrible my form looked at the precise point when everyone in Kelowna would be taking a picture of me. The photos local newspaper photographers took of me as I finished make it look like I race-walked the whole distance.
All in all, though, it was a really fun experience. Despite everything that went wrong, I still took six minutes off my old PB and confirmed that I can break 2:30 next year if I keep working. My guts didn’t betray me and I didn’t get lost. Plus I had a lot of fun and got to break the tape for the first time ever.
I can’t wait to get back at it, though the few easy runs I’ve tried in the week after the race have confirmed that I should probably wait a bit more.
It’s tough, though, because running is the best.
As usual, always enjoy the race reports!
Yea, with spasms in consecutive races it sounds like something you definitely need to figure out if you want to run to your potential. They've cost minutes each time.
Didn't realize the day was warm, or had some winds. Don't know exactly what the conditions were but that could easily be worth some time and also perhaps contribute to some of the end of race struggles.
That lead "vehicle" guy sounds like a total badass. Talk about doing a job right!
I'm glad you guys found it amusing. I had a pretty good laugh when I got home. Also thanks for the explanations.
To answer L_Master's questions:
I've replaced the tires that came on my Jake with slightly smoother commuter ones. So not nobbly but not skinny either. Just kind of smooth with a small amount of tread. I was wearing 7" running shorts and a t-shirt.
On October 19 2015 05:30 Jetaap wrote: I had some things I had to shake off my head this afternoon, so I went for a 5K and tried to push myself a bit. It's pathetic compared to some of you, but i'm quite pleased by my improvement: my last 5k was 24:42 and i ran this one in 22:27 (https://www.strava.com/activities/415553497) A nice objective would be to run a 10k at this pace, if i don't injure myself it should be doable no? I don't realize if it's realistic, if I go for longer runs my knees end up really sore for 1 or 2 days, to the point where it's really bothering to walk so it's a bit scary .
What surfaces are you running on, Jetaap? Training for the longer distance will require longer runs, but this doesn't mean that it has to hurt. I have bad knees, too, and so I try to find nice soft paths and asphalt if I must when adding mileage. Stay off the pavement and cement, for sure! As you run more often/further, the muscles around your knees will get stronger, too, and this will help with minimizing swelling as long as you're taking the new distances at an easy/leisurely pace and not adding on too much at once.
Good luck! I definitely think you can do a sub-45 minute 10k. Nothing is "pathetic" when it comes to improving your running - keep us posted!
On October 21 2015 09:34 Bonham wrote: I'm glad you guys found it amusing. I had a pretty good laugh when I got home. Also thanks for the explanations.
To answer L_Master's questions:
I've replaced the tires that came on my Jake with slightly smoother commuter ones. So not nobbly but not skinny either. Just kind of smooth with a small amount of tread. I was wearing 7" running shorts and a t-shirt.
Yea, I'd venture to guess you're losing about 2-3 kph at that speed with that kind of tires/clothing. That and obviously keep in mind your cycling leg musculature wouldn't be very developed. You can have a great engine, but if you're muscles aren't able to push the power you need, or do so efficiently, you won't be a super fast cyclist initially.
When I came by City Park in Kelowna to pick up my bib for the Okanagan Marathon, a children's race was about to start. It was a 1K road race, one of those novelty events race organizers sometimes hold on the day before the race proper. I was interested to observe that the tendency to go out hot and blow up, as common in fully-grown road runners as enthusiasm for finisher's medals, apparently begins well before puberty. A horde of children, some of whom looked like they'd just recently learned to walk, stampeded down the road and around the first turn. The course ran a short circuit around the race pavilion, so I was able to see every single racer tie up on the back stretch and walk home. Take note: apparently you can hit the wall even in a thousand metre race.
Later I went to a Korean place for lunch with my family and girlfriend, all of whom had travelled long distances to come see me run. Halfway through my bowl of noodle soup, panic gripped me. It suddenly dawned on me that there had been a little shredded red cabbage garnishing the dish, and I'd eaten it without a second thought. As I'd learned the hard way in training that raw cabbage was to my GI system what the Death Star was to Alderaan, I was concerned. I even asked my girlfriend, who is a physician, if she could get me an emetic on short notice. Sensibly, she declined.
I often have trouble sleeping the night before a race, but this marathon was particularly bad. Lying on a squishy couch bed in our rented condo, I tossed and turned and turned and tossed without end. I listened to the wind, which sounded like it was blowing at hurricane-force. Sleep eventually came, but not for long. Four thirty, it turns out, comes pretty early in the morning.
Prerace breakfast was steel-cut oats with a little milk and jam, and a few cups of coffee. To my relief, my guts were moving well, and I took advantage of the fact that everyone else was asleep to make liberal use of the bathroom. Around 5, my girlfriend got up and ate a bit of oatmeal with me. As someone with Known Executive Capabilities, she's a comfort to me whenever I'm feeling nervous, and I seldom feel more nervous than I did that morning.
This race weighed on me like no other in my memory. I'd had an uneven season despite some pretty solid training, punctuated by a disappointing half marathon in August. Training had gone quite well since then, though, and I knew if everything went well I could break 2:30 today. But what if everything didn't go well? My mind churned with fears of wind, of rain, of going off-course, of screwing up my feed schedule, of getting scalped in the last five k, of getting sabotaged by my bowels. More than anything, I didn't want to quit if things got tough. I'd really phoned in that half marathon and the experience of throwing a mid-race pity party for yourself was not one I wanted to repeat.
Then she pinned my bib onto my singlet, I put on my uniform and warmup clothes, and we piled into a car to go down to the start race. My parents, along with my brother and sister-in-law, sensibly slept a bit more and met us later.
A word about this uniform: I received a modest sponsorship this year. In exchange for some free shoes and discounts on running clothes, I'm obliged to wear a pair of very short shorts and a singlet that, combined, but barely meet the demands of decency. I've gotten used to them, but when I first tried them on I remember feeling like I was not too far from running around in my underwear. Good thing I wouldn't be wearing this in some situation where my picture would be taken a bunch, right? Right.
Awesome! Glad to hear about sponsorship. Those shorts are very modest relative to what some runners go for!
The race site was dark and very quiet when we arrived. The Okanagan Marathon is not huge, and one of the advantages of its size is that parking is easier to find, and lineups to portapotties shorter. The downside of a small race is that the organization might be suspect, and the odds of finding someone to run with are lower.
So I used the biff, warmed up, and made my way to the start line. I also ran into a bunch of runners I knew here. This year I met almost all of the players in Edmonton's running scene, and a bunch were around the start to run the half marathon, which started 30 minutes after the full. It would be my last time i familiar company for the rest of the morning.
I wasn't quite sure what to expect when the gun went off. I knew from looking at previous winning times and chatting with some running friends that I was probably going to run most of the race on my own. But who knows how the first 10k will roll? Someone might try to hang and blow up real bad. Maybe a 2:2x guy would be there and drag me along for a bit.
Instead, I was on my own after about 100 metres. With a weird mix of excitement and resignation, I tried to settle in. Excitement because I'd been building to this race since May and knew I had it in me to run a good time. Resignation because the first half of a marathon is such a test of patience–if it feels like you're working, you're working too hard. There's nothing to do but sit back and let the miles roll by, and I've never been a particularly patient guy.
To pass the time, I chatted with the cyclists a bit. I had two with me at that point, and they were as eager for stimulation as me. They asked me my PRs, my age, and my goals. I asked them if they'd switch with me after 20 miles.
Goal pace was 3:32/km, and it felt just like marathon pace should. We noodled out through an industrial area, then back along the shore of Lake Okanagan. Kelowna is a pretty hilly town, but the Okanagan course is very flat. This flatness comes at a price: the half marathon course has lots of turns in it, and the full course is just two laps of the half route. Since the half starts a haf hour after the full, I was going to have to pass a good portion of the half marathon field in the second half of the race, when energy stores are low and decision-making is suspect.
I popped my first gel at 5k, though I was not remotely hungry. I'm a firm believer that running a good marathon is as much about nailing the intra-race nutrition as anything else, and after much experimentation and hand-wringing had decided to take gel at 5k, 15k, 25k, and 35k. A schedule like this had worked pretty well in training, though I'd never taken four in one run.
After about eight k, I had my first taste of what you might call the mass media angle of this experience. I was already a good ways ahead of the rest of the field, and some dude I didn't know from Adam rolled up on his bike and started snapping pictures of me. He didn't introduce himself or ask me if I minded or anything. Our only conversation came when I pointed out some cars approaching on the other side of the road, as he was riding in the left lane. After about ten minutes he rode off.
Ten miles in, the course crossed one of Kelowna's many 60 kph speed limit roads. Cars have seldom heard a discouraging word from pedestrians in Kelowna, and they drive like they are used to it. The course marshals mistakenly let a taxi cab onto the road just as I was approaching. Dude must have been making 70 kph as I came to the crossing.
I was weighing whether the forces of cosmic justice would protect me if I didn't interrupt my stride to let him pass when my cyclists showed great courage and stopped in the middle of the road before I hit it. The taxi slammed on its breaks and I went through the intersection with no problem.
Damn, your cyclist was a badass! Kudos to him, and glad you didn't end up roadkill.
I hit halfway right on schedule at 1:14 high and passed through the finish zone. There was a good sized crowd there by now, and I heard my name come over the sound system and saw my family and people started to cheer for me, including my girlfriend adorably waving her arms like an air-traffic controller. This gave me a little boost of adrenaline and I felt very, very strong as I cruised through and started my second lap.
The legs started to feel a bit heavy here, but I wasn't panicked. I knew I'd put in some good work and feeling a little tired was OK. One of the benefits of this two-lap course was that I had a lot of encouragement from the other runners. People would say “look at him go!” or “holy shit!” or whatnot as I passed by, which for the most part made up for the hassle of navigating around them as I tried to run the tangents. Accessing the water stations was also harder from here, but my cyclist, sterling guy that he was, realized this. He started to ask me if I wanted water as we approached a station, then he'd ride ahead, let them know, and get someone out onto the left side of the course to hand me drink. What a guy!
Around 25k I started to feel a bit rough. The day was a bit hotter and windier than ideal conditions, and with no one to race against I had little to occupy my mind other than the next ten daunting miles. Twenty five to 30k was not great, though looking at the splits in retrospect I can see I didn't slow at all until I hit 30k. I ran that one in 3:42 and the next two at the same speed. It dawned on me that 2:2x probably was not going to happen to day at this point, but I thought that 2:3-low was still possible and I resolved to push as much as I could. I got under 3:40/km for the next three.
Then I hit 35k and popped my final gel. My stomach felt very unhappy about this and instantly cramped. Looking at my splits now, I'm amazed at how quickly this makes itself felt. I ran the thirty-sixth k in 3:52, then 3:49 and 3:55.
This was when the marathon really had me in its house of pain. I tried to spit, but I lacked the necessary energy so this gross gobbet to phlem stuck to my face. I also lacked the energy to wipe it away, so it hung there for the rest of the race. I tried to croak a joke to my cyclist about switching. Recognizing my distress, he tried to get the half marathoners to give me a cheer, but when they cheered all I could do was stare and grimace at them. Smiling was not possible and their adulation brought no comfort.
Everyone dreams about digging deep and charging through the last few miles of a marathon, but as I entered the home stretch all I could think about was making the pain stop. Over the final four k I slowed to what felt like a total death march. My stomach complained. Three separate times my hamstrings spasmed violently. It felt just like Portland last year. I knew if they seized up, not only would I DNF, I might collapse and smack my head on the asphalt.
It felt like the cells in my body banded together in a supermajority and presented my prefrontal cortex with a unanimous petition to stop moving immediately. Issuing the a veto took all the willpower at my disposal. It hurt so much I forgot to enjoy winning a marathon for the first time in my life. I stopped looking at my watch. I stopped hearing the cheers of the crowd, increasingly loud as I approached the finish. I staggered onward and wondered if being dead would feel better than this.
Laughed so much as this good descriptive passage! Time for President Bonham to lay down the law!
I waddled up the finishing chute and over the line, then shuffled over to the barricade to hug my girlfriend. My amazing family all hugged my sweaty, spit-stained body without the slightest hesitation. After a few minutes, I turned around to find a bottle of water to drink.
A pack of reporters was waiting for me. With no preamble, they started spitting questions. How did I deal with the wind? Was it hard to race on my own? Was it fun to win? What did I think about the organization? I stammered out whatever nonsense came to mind into the bouquet of hungry microphones. After five or ten minutes, they left me in peace.
Looking back, I’m most proud of those final four k. I ran them pretty slow--about 4:04 on average--but I didn’t give up the way I had at the half marathon in August. I’m not sure I really embraced the suffering the way the best runners do in the last quarter of a marathon (and like I know I can when things go well), but when things hurt the most I kept fighting. I died, but at least I died with my boots on. That’s an encouraging thought.
In the final analysis, I can say the following things went sideways on me:
1 The last gel really stung. I lost 13 seconds/k right after I took it, and things only got worse from there. I don’t know if I should have just had three and spread them out more, or waited more to eat the final one, or tried liquid calories or what, but I need to make some changes to nutrition for the next one. 2 This is the second marathon in row where I’ve had my legs freak out and spasm in the final stretch. I need to figure out what makes this happen and prevent it. One of my running buddies prescribed coconut water the night before a race to me when I told him about Portland. At the time I thought he was crazy--he’s never met a supplement he didn’t like--but I may revisit his council for my next marathon.
Hmmm... I've been on the other end of the spectrum (WTF is a supplement/gel/running nutrition, anyway?!) for most of my running life, but recently have really enjoyed a particular liquid calorie (TailWind) that got me through Dirty 30 and really seems to sit well. If you can't get it up there to try, PM me and I'll send you some.
3 The weather was unexpectedly hot and windy. Not disastrously so, but an appreciable distance from ideal conditions. 4 Running the whole thing as a time trial made it harder to really lean in when the going got tough. 5 I failed to realize how terrible my form looked at the precise point when everyone in Kelowna would be taking a picture of me. The photos local newspaper photographers took of me as I finished make it look like I race-walked the whole distance.
All in all, though, it was a really fun experience. Despite everything that went wrong, I still took six minutes off my old PB and confirmed that I can break 2:30 next year if I keep working. My guts didn’t betray me and I didn’t get lost. Plus I had a lot of fun and got to break the tape for the first time ever. + Show Spoiler +
I can’t wait to get back at it, though the few easy runs I’ve tried in the week after the race have confirmed that I should probably wait a bit more.
It’s tough, though, because running is the best.
All and all, BADASS. FTW literally. Thanks for the good write-up: humorous, loquacious, and inspirational as always.
On October 19 2015 05:30 Jetaap wrote: I had some things I had to shake off my head this afternoon, so I went for a 5K and tried to push myself a bit. It's pathetic compared to some of you, but i'm quite pleased by my improvement: my last 5k was 24:42 and i ran this one in 22:27 (https://www.strava.com/activities/415553497) A nice objective would be to run a 10k at this pace, if i don't injure myself it should be doable no? I don't realize if it's realistic, if I go for longer runs my knees end up really sore for 1 or 2 days, to the point where it's really bothering to walk so it's a bit scary .
What surfaces are you running on, Jetaap? Training for the longer distance will require longer runs, but this doesn't mean that it has to hurt. I have bad knees, too, and so I try to find nice soft paths and asphalt if I must when adding mileage. Stay off the pavement and cement, for sure! As you run more often/further, the muscles around your knees will get stronger, too, and this will help with minimizing swelling as long as you're taking the new distances at an easy/leisurely pace and not adding on too much at once.
Good luck! I definitely think you can do a sub-45 minute 10k. Nothing is "pathetic" when it comes to improving your running - keep us posted!
The easiest place to run from where I live is a path that follows the river, on one side it's some kind of gravel path, but on the other it's asphalt, the issue it's that's there is a small lateral slope to the road, and that's really a problem for my knees.It's not perfect but i don't know if I can find much better :s (the city where i live is surrounded by mountains so it's not that easy to find some flat places to run .) I'm going to try to continue and increase my mileage very progressively, seems to be working out okay for now, hopefully in a month or two i'll be able to run 10k regularly without hurting my knees.
Average 3:30.4 with the usual 60s recovery. On a workout roll right now with each workout being noticeably better than the last. Probably that will end soon. Feels good to finally tap back into some of the level of talent I felt like I had with my progression in '11. Quite excited to see where this goes.
Next race will be Oct 31, but slower gravel course. I'd be okay with 18:30 and anything under 18:00 would be excellent.
On October 11 2015 07:10 Mikau wrote: I've just started getting back into running (actually did my first 10 km training run in 3 years the other day, while being 10kg heavier than the last time I did one). I want to keep working at my running to be able to potentially do 5k/10k/half marathon 'races' next spring/summer. I read online that if you don't run at least 3 times per week you won't really see any long term improvement. I however also bike (about 25km x2 as a commute) a couple days a week, practice karate (1-2 times per week) and am trying to teach myself how to swim. So at the moment I can't really run 3 times a week without sacrificing a lot of my other activities, which are important to me for various reasons.
How true is the 3x per week thing to see improvement? With all the sporting I'll be doing this winter my general fitness will improve ofcourse and that should benefit my running I guess, but that would be true even if I didn't run. So, how much of a point is there to running if I can't do 3x per week? And assuming I'm sticking to 1 day a week, what would be the best way to improve (speed being more important to me than mileage at this point)?
Hate to do this, but quoting myself to see if anybody has any input on this, mainly about the low amount of runs a week.
Did a bit of a benchmark 5k run yesterday, in the terrible time of 33:00. Going to work hard at getting that below 30:00 (which is laughable compared to people here but feels like a huge treshold for me).
On October 11 2015 07:10 Mikau wrote: I've just started getting back into running (actually did my first 10 km training run in 3 years the other day, while being 10kg heavier than the last time I did one). I want to keep working at my running to be able to potentially do 5k/10k/half marathon 'races' next spring/summer. I read online that if you don't run at least 3 times per week you won't really see any long term improvement. I however also bike (about 25km x2 as a commute) a couple days a week, practice karate (1-2 times per week) and am trying to teach myself how to swim. So at the moment I can't really run 3 times a week without sacrificing a lot of my other activities, which are important to me for various reasons.
How true is the 3x per week thing to see improvement? With all the sporting I'll be doing this winter my general fitness will improve ofcourse and that should benefit my running I guess, but that would be true even if I didn't run. So, how much of a point is there to running if I can't do 3x per week? And assuming I'm sticking to 1 day a week, what would be the best way to improve (speed being more important to me than mileage at this point)?
Hate to do this, but quoting myself to see if anybody has any input on this, mainly about the low amount of runs a week.
Did a bit of a benchmark 5k run yesterday, in the terrible time of 33:00. Going to work hard at getting that below 30:00 (which is laughable compared to people here but feels like a huge treshold for me).
If you're taking good care of your body (resting well, good warmup/cooldown/stretching routine, eating well, not being too stressed out generally) and you're doing a decent ammount of auxiliary cardio (like your commuting), then yeah, sure, you're going to improve your running some even if you only run one time a week. Especially if you make a conscious effort to pay attention to your running form. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to run a marathon, continuously running one time a week. But you're not going to break the world record if you only run once a week ^^
But then again there's no point concerning yourself with how fast you're running you unless you're a professional athlete. As long as you're having fun running and your body feels good, you're not going to feel any difference whether the clock says you ran a marathon in 3 hours or 4 hours.
On October 24 2015 03:07 Mikau wrote: I've just started getting back into running (actually did my first 10 km training run in 3 years the other day, while being 10kg heavier than the last time I did one). I want to keep working at my running to be able to potentially do 5k/10k/half marathon 'races' next spring/summer. I read online that if you don't run at least 3 times per week you won't really see any long term improvement. I however also bike (about 25km x2 as a commute) a couple days a week, practice karate (1-2 times per week) and am trying to teach myself how to swim. So at the moment I can't really run 3 times a week without sacrificing a lot of my other activities, which are important to me for various reasons.
How true is the 3x per week thing to see improvement? With all the sporting I'll be doing this winter my general fitness will improve of-course and that should benefit my running I guess, but that would be true even if I didn't run. So, how much of a point is there to running if I can't do 3x per week? And assuming I'm sticking to 1 day a week, what would be the best way to improve (speed being more important to me than mileage at this point)?
If all you did was run once or twice a week and nothing else you'd probably get better for a few months and then more or less remain at a similar level. 1-2 hours a week is not really much of a stimulus to the body.
However, the bolded part is not really true, particularly depending on what you do and what is paired with it. In other words, since you're cycling 100km a week and doing a little swimming (karate doesn't do much for aerobic performance) you've got plenty of aerobic stimulus to improve. You'll definitely get better. You're running won't improve as fast as it would if you did 50km a week of cycling and 50km a week of running, but there is no question you'll improve with smart training.
On October 24 2015 03:07 Mikau wrote: So at the moment I can't really run 3 times a week without sacrificing a lot of my other activities, which are important to me for various reasons.
Unless you have a truly insane schedule, in which case I apologize for being a little accusatory, like working 60 hours or more a week and going to school at the same time I'm pretty skeptical of claims like this. I've worked 40 hours a week, while going to school full time with medical volunteering on the side and other activities, and still could fit training 15+ hours a week without insane difficulty. Some people managed to do all of that with a family as well.
You've got two weekend days. Unless there is something unique going on there that literally takes the entire day there is time for a 2-3 miles there. Then it's just a matter of finding another 30 min spot, or waking up 30 minutes earlier one day of the week.
On October 24 2015 03:07 Mikau wrote: And assuming I'm sticking to 1 day a week, what would be the best way to improve (speed being more important to me than mileage at this point)?
Assuming you are opting for 1 day a week of running, I would alternate:
"Even" weeks do a progression run of about 30-45 minutes starting off very easy, say 13:00 mile ish pace, gradually getting faster and faster till you're at a "comfortably hard" pace for the last 15 minutes, and if you want you can blast the last 2 min even harder just don't go so hard there you tie up. Then on "odd" weeks do a session of 8x400m at a hard pace (right now probably around 2:10-2:15 per 400m) with a walk recovery for on straightaway of the track (60s recovery). Finish it off with 4x200m at truly fast clip, less than 40s per 200, with a good long recovery of 2:00 between each. That will give you a decent balance between aerobic strength and speed in the legs.
On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote: If you're taking good care of your body (resting well, good warmup/cooldown/stretching routine, eating well, not being too stressed out generally) and you're doing a decent ammount of auxiliary cardio (like your commuting), then yeah, sure, you're going to improve your running some even if you only run one time a week.
Excellent summary! Improvements from one day a week of running with some supplementary aerobic training are not only possible, they are certain.
On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote: There's no reason you shouldn't be able to run a marathon, continuously running one time a week.
I slightly disagree here. The marathon especially is incredibly stressful on the body. That's a massive amount of impact, and in some ways is worse if you're slower as you're out there for 4 or even 5 hours. That's a tremendous amount of physical trauma to the muscles, tendons, and ligaments that one day a week of running simply will not prepare you for.
Do I believe you could get yourself to the finish line from the start line in one piece running once a week? Yea probably so. But the last half and especially last 10km are going to be a death march. I'd be happy to throw down a bet that someone without a running background running one day a week will not be able to finish a marathon without one or more walk breaks.
On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote: But then again there's no point concerning yourself with how fast you're running you unless you're a professional athlete. As long as you're having fun running and your body feels good, you're not going to feel any difference whether the clock says you ran a marathon in 3 hours or 4 hours.
Say what? You're going to feel a significant difference because running faster feels...well....faster. It's like saying I'm not going to notice a difference if I ride my bike up a hill at 5mph or at 20mph. Of course I will. The airflow over me will be different, my perceptions of surroundings going by me will be difference, and the sensations from my body will be dramatically different as I'm physically using a longer stride with more force.
I agree you shouldn't be obsessed with how fast you're going or entirely dependent on your race times and improvement for enjoyment unless your a professional, but shooting to become faster and training to achieve that goal is absolutely worth striving for, and running faster, at least for myself and most I've run into, feels much, much better than running slower. It's not the only thing I get enjoyment out of from running, but there is no doubt for me the faster I'm going and can go the more fun I'm having.
On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote: There's no reason you shouldn't be able to run a marathon, continuously running one time a week.
I slightly disagree here. The marathon especially is incredibly stressful on the body. That's a massive amount of impact, and in some ways is worse if you're slower as you're out there for 4 or even 5 hours. That's a tremendous amount of physical trauma to the muscles, tendons, and ligaments that one day a week of running simply will not prepare you for.
Do I believe you could get yourself to the finish line from the start line in one piece running once a week? Yea probably so. But the last half and especially last 10km are going to be a death march. I'd be happy to throw down a bet that someone without a running background running one day a week will not be able to finish a marathon without one or more walk breaks.
Well, he did say he's getting back into running so he has some kind of running background! He has about half a year till spring/summer when he's thinking about racing. While muscle mass and aerobic capacity deteriorate rather quickly, his tendons and ligaments will not be too bad off even if it's been a long time since he used to run (as long as he's been walking some in his day to day activities which seems to be the case - and as long as he hasn't had the disfortune of dealing with nasty injuries). That said, what's wrong with walk breaks?!!!! xD
On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote: But then again there's no point concerning yourself with how fast you're running you unless you're a professional athlete. As long as you're having fun running and your body feels good, you're not going to feel any difference whether the clock says you ran a marathon in 3 hours or 4 hours.
Say what? You're going to feel a significant difference because running faster feels...well....faster. It's like saying I'm not going to notice a difference if I ride my bike up a hill at 5mph or at 20mph. Of course I will. The airflow over me will be different, my perceptions of surroundings going by me will be difference, and the sensations from my body will be dramatically different as I'm physically using a longer stride with more force.
I agree you shouldn't be obsessed with how fast you're going or entirely dependent on your race times and improvement for enjoyment unless your a professional, but shooting to become faster and training to achieve that goal is absolutely worth striving for, and running faster, at least for myself and most I've run into, feels much, much better than running slower. It's not the only thing I get enjoyment out of from running, but there is no doubt for me the faster I'm going and can go the more fun I'm having.
Come on, man. You're not being reasonable here! With my example, going 33 percent faster, we're talking about 77 percent increased air resistance (from almost no air resistance to still almost no air resistance!) - with yours, we're talking about sixteen times the air resistance.
Edit: although I'll admit that it's going to feel noticably differently in cold weather on bare exposed skin on the side of the arms and legs due to air resistance being propertional to velocity for laminar flow and thanks to the wind chill factor.
Thanks both L_Master and 14CC for the responses. Thanks for reminding me that I have to keep an eye on both rest and warm up/stretching as well, I have a habit of undervaluing and under utilising both.
On October 24 2015 05:34 L_Master wrote: If all you did was run once or twice a week and nothing else you'd probably get better for a few months and then more or less remain at a similar level. 1-2 hours a week is not really much of a stimulus to the body.
However, the bolded part is not really true, particularly depending on what you do and what is paired with it. In other words, since you're cycling 100km a week and doing a little swimming (karate doesn't do much for aerobic performance) you've got plenty of aerobic stimulus to improve. You'll definitely get better. You're running won't improve as fast as it would if you did 50km a week of cycling and 50km a week of running, but there is no question you'll improve with smart training.
I imagined as much, but unfortunately the commute is there to stay for at least another 3 months. I can (and have to) reevaluate after I move house in January, and my commute gets cut to almost 0, but until then I can't run much more (explanation below)
On October 24 2015 05:34 L_Master wrote: Unless you have a truly insane schedule, in which case I apologize for being a little accusatory, like working 60 hours or more a week and going to school at the same time I'm pretty skeptical of claims like this. I've worked 40 hours a week, while going to school full time with medical volunteering on the side and other activities, and still could fit training 15+ hours a week without insane difficulty. Some people managed to do all of that with a family as well.
You've got two weekend days. Unless there is something unique going on there that literally takes the entire day there is time for a 2-3 miles there. Then it's just a matter of finding another 30 min spot, or waking up 30 minutes earlier one day of the week.
Maybe I should've phrased that better. While I have a busy schedule (uni + working 20-30 hours a week and a girlfriend) I have plenty of time to go exercising. I meant more in terms of the amount of training both myself and my body can handle. At the moment both karate and running are so taxing that I can't do them on the same day, and I ride myself pretty hard on my commute as well. Not only that, for financial reasons I'm hoping to get as close to 7 days a week of biking to work/school in as possible (currently doing anywhere between 1 and 4 depending on weather, but I'm getting winter clothes so that won't be an excuse anymroe going forward), and I don't feel in great running shape after doing the commute multiple days in a row. I'm still working on improving basic fitness so it's hard to tell how much I can handle a few months from now, but right now it feels like running twice a week is a lot. Add to that that I'm secretly hoping to expand the karate to 3 days a week sa well.
On October 24 2015 05:34 L_Master wrote: Assuming you are opting for 1 day a week of running, I would alternate:
"Even" weeks do a progression run of about 30-45 minutes starting off very easy, say 13:00 mile ish pace, gradually getting faster and faster till you're at a "comfortably hard" pace for the last 15 minutes, and if you want you can blast the last 2 min even harder just don't go so hard there you tie up. Then on "odd" weeks do a session of 8x400m at a hard pace (right now probably around 2:10-2:15 per 400m) with a walk recovery for on straightaway of the track (60s recovery). Finish it off with 4x200m at truly fast clip, less than 40s per 200, with a good long recovery of 2:00 between each. That will give you a decent balance between aerobic strength and speed in the legs.
Thanks, this is really helpful! If I were to run two times a week, I'm guessing I'd be doing both in any given week? Will the aerobic training be enough to prepare me for potentially longer races? I have my mind set on 12km one in March, but I have no idea how attainable that is.
On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote: There's no reason you shouldn't be able to run a marathon, continuously running one time a week.
I slightly disagree here. The marathon especially is incredibly stressful on the body. That's a massive amount of impact, and in some ways is worse if you're slower as you're out there for 4 or even 5 hours. That's a tremendous amount of physical trauma to the muscles, tendons, and ligaments that one day a week of running simply will not prepare you for.
Do I believe you could get yourself to the finish line from the start line in one piece running once a week? Yea probably so. But the last half and especially last 10km are going to be a death march. I'd be happy to throw down a bet that someone without a running background running one day a week will not be able to finish a marathon without one or more walk breaks.
Well, he did say he's getting back into running so he has some kind of running background! He has about half a year till spring/summer when he's thinking about racing. While muscle mass and aerobic capacity deteriorate rather quickly, his tendons and ligaments will not be too bad off even if it's been a long time since he used to run (as long as he's been walking some in his day to day activities which seems to be the case - and as long as he hasn't had the disfortune of dealing with nasty injuries). That said, what's wrong with walk breaks?!!!! xD
On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote: But then again there's no point concerning yourself with how fast you're running you unless you're a professional athlete. As long as you're having fun running and your body feels good, you're not going to feel any difference whether the clock says you ran a marathon in 3 hours or 4 hours.
Say what? You're going to feel a significant difference because running faster feels...well....faster. It's like saying I'm not going to notice a difference if I ride my bike up a hill at 5mph or at 20mph. Of course I will. The airflow over me will be different, my perceptions of surroundings going by me will be difference, and the sensations from my body will be dramatically different as I'm physically using a longer stride with more force.
I agree you shouldn't be obsessed with how fast you're going or entirely dependent on your race times and improvement for enjoyment unless your a professional, but shooting to become faster and training to achieve that goal is absolutely worth striving for, and running faster, at least for myself and most I've run into, feels much, much better than running slower. It's not the only thing I get enjoyment out of from running, but there is no doubt for me the faster I'm going and can go the more fun I'm having.
Come on, man. You're not being reasonable here! With my example, going 33 percent faster, we're talking about 77 percent increased air resistance (from almost no air resistance to still almost no air resistance!) - with yours, we're talking about sixteen times the air resistance.
Edit: although I'll admit that it's going to feel noticably differently in cold weather on bare exposed skin on the side of the arms and legs due to air resistance being propertional to velocity for laminar flow and thanks to the wind chill factor.
To be fair, 'getting back into running' might be overemphasising how much running I used to do. Back then (2012 I think) I went running roughly 3 times a week (starting from not even being able to jog 2 minute intervals with 1 minute walking breaks in between), to running roughly 10-15 miles a week, with pace being comparable to what I'm doing now.
A few weeks back my coach sent out a link to this stretch that allegedly helps out with PF. I finally got round to trying it last night, and I must say I'm pretty surprised at how much better my feet feel today. I'm definitely going to incorporate this into my daily stretching routine. Since PF is so common and I know some people in this thread deal with it too, I thought I'd post a link. Check it.
On October 26 2015 22:47 Bonham wrote: A few weeks back my coach sent out a link to this stretch that allegedly helps out with PF. I finally got round to trying it last night, and I must say I'm pretty surprised at how much better my feet feel today. I'm definitely going to incorporate this into my daily stretching routine. Since PF is so common and I know some people in this thread deal with it too, I thought I'd post a link. Check it.
Interesting! Definitely will try it out, thanks Bonham!
On October 26 2015 22:47 Bonham wrote: A few weeks back my coach sent out a link to this stretch that allegedly helps out with PF. I finally got round to trying it last night, and I must say I'm pretty surprised at how much better my feet feel today. I'm definitely going to incorporate this into my daily stretching routine. Since PF is so common and I know some people in this thread deal with it too, I thought I'd post a link. Check it.
Interesting! Definitely will try it out, thanks Bonham!
I hope it keeps the evils of PF at bay. Also, thanks for all your kind words r.e. the race report. I haven't responded yet in detail because I'm a bad person, but I swear it's on my to-do list.
On October 26 2015 22:47 Bonham wrote: A few weeks back my coach sent out a link to this stretch that allegedly helps out with PF. I finally got round to trying it last night, and I must say I'm pretty surprised at how much better my feet feel today. I'm definitely going to incorporate this into my daily stretching routine. Since PF is so common and I know some people in this thread deal with it too, I thought I'd post a link. Check it.
Interesting! Definitely will try it out, thanks Bonham!
I hope it keeps the evils of PF at bay. Also, thanks for all your kind words r.e. the race report. I haven't responded yet in detail because I'm a bad person, but I swear it's on my to-do list.
No worries at all. Idle comments and admiration, by and large. Just let me know if you can find TailWind up your way. Placebo or no, it's made long runs much happier for me this year.
Took advantage of the nice weather for what is probably going to be my last ride of the year before the snow settles in the mountains. Legs were not working well today (still carried me through the 2000m of climbing but that was slow and painfull ^^) but the view was more than worth it: (picture in spoilers) + Show Spoiler +
Amazing.... I would love to have such a landscape for my runs, I really love running in the nature instead that among cars in the traffic Where is that amazing place? The autumn's colors are beautiful.. !
I live in Grenoble, in the alps. I'm still amazed to see that i can take my bike from my home and go to these places in half an hour . This is in the Chartreuse range, which is basically part of the pre-Alps. Not very well known but it's an absolutely gorgeous place especially in this season.
I've met a few people from Grenoble and all of them talked to me about the very nice bike routes around the city.. I'll have to visit one day (plus I imagine it is a nice city by itself )
On October 30 2015 21:16 VHbb wrote: I've met a few people from Grenoble and all of them talked to me about the very nice bike routes around the city.. I'll have to visit one day (plus I imagine it is a nice city by itself )
Not that much to do in the city itself, but if you like cycling, trail running, rock climbing, mountaineering, speleology... it's an amazing place to live in
Last time i rode my bike i was a bit curious so i got myself a blutooth heart rate band and synced it to strava. I don't know much about these things, but i averaging around 165 bpm while i was climbing. I'm 25 so my theoretical max should be 195bpm, and my resting rate is around 55bpm, i see a lot of things on the internet so it's a bit confusing. On these kinds of climb (1000m, around 10%), what bpm should I aim for? I felt like I could have gone faster, yet according to what I see 165bpm should be around the max bpm i should go for...
I know it doesn't really matter, but as I said, i'm curious :D
On October 30 2015 21:16 VHbb wrote: I've met a few people from Grenoble and all of them talked to me about the very nice bike routes around the city.. I'll have to visit one day (plus I imagine it is a nice city by itself )
Not that much to do in the city itself, but if you like cycling, trail running, rock climbing, mountaineering, speleology... it's an amazing place to live in
Last time i rode my bike i was a bit curious so i got myself a blutooth heart rate band and synced it to strava. I don't know much about these things, but i averaging around 165 bpm while i was climbing. I'm 25 so my theoretical max should be 195bpm, and my resting rate is around 55bpm, i see a lot of things on the internet so it's a bit confusing. On these kinds of climb (1000m, around 10%), what bpm should I aim for? I felt like I could have gone faster, yet according to what I see 165bpm should be around the max bpm i should go for...
I know it doesn't really matter, but as I said, i'm curious :D
HR varies massively from person to person. I've got one friend who is 19 and his threshold HR is a smidge over 200. Max is like 220 or something. Another teammate is 25 or something and his max HR is just 170. Threshold closer to 150.
1000m is a good climb, should be somewhere between 40 and 60 minutes, so more or less at threshold is what you would be aiming for. However, without knowing max that is a shot in the dark. Is you really want to make use of HR it's best to figure out both your max and threshold HR. Max basically means doing some hard repeats, then at the very end of the last hard repeat you go all in sprinting to empty the tank and then take the highest HR you see. Threshold HR you can get from finding an approx 1hr climb and go up it as hard as you can. HR near the end is threshold HR. Or if that's a little too demanding/impractical you can get an estimate if you do 2x20 min repeat w/5 min recovery, HR at the end of 2nd 20' interval would be roughly threshold HR.
From there you can just check the cycling HR zone charts and figure out where HR is.
All that said, I think when it comes to riding/running, it's still best to run by feel. HR can vary quite a bit day to day depending on many factors. Some days riding I will be at 135bpm and it feels like crap, other days I might be going 150bpm at similar effort and it feels great. Where HR is nice is for picking up patterns in training, or if you have high HR and feel like crap it's usually a good indicator that taking the day easy or off is in order.
Well, not much interesting to report on the LMaster front. Was planning to race this past Saturday...but ended up being sick Fri-Mon so that didn't happen. All of last week was bad in general: lots of partying, not much sleep, eating like shit, etc. May well have played a role in getting sick.
Almost lost it last 2 weeks with the eating as well, was getting up there towards 40-50% calories coming from pure junk food (cookies, candy, soda, etc.) and binging pretty hard some days. Realized I was about to throw away my whole build up and really forced myself back into super clean eating mode starting Monday to bring the insane sugar cravings under control. Put on about 3lbs in 2 weeks, so not particularly good, but didn't totally shoot my sub 17 chances in the foot.
Gotta be focused from here on out though if I want to make that happen though!
Today was day 147 of my 180 days daily running project. Which will probably be extended to 250 days soon. It is awesome, running in the morning by now feels totally normal to me. Hopefully it stays that way (which is basically what this project is all about.
On tuesday I broke my 1km PR, from 4:10min to 4:05min. I didn't feel particularly well, so I am looking forward to break 4min really soon.
I am hovering around 100kg right now and the scale is starting to move slower. 100kg seems like a weight my body is pretty comfortable with, I have struggled with that mark everytime. But I really want to go to at least 93kg. Eating less is just really, really hard.
In general my speed in normal training runs increases gradually and I am able to run 75km-80km every week below 6:00 pace on average (which is a very crude indicator but anyway). My slowest runs are now around 6:40pace. Before my 'project' this was my average training speed.
On October 30 2015 21:16 VHbb wrote: I've met a few people from Grenoble and all of them talked to me about the very nice bike routes around the city.. I'll have to visit one day (plus I imagine it is a nice city by itself )
Not that much to do in the city itself, but if you like cycling, trail running, rock climbing, mountaineering, speleology... it's an amazing place to live in
Last time i rode my bike i was a bit curious so i got myself a blutooth heart rate band and synced it to strava. I don't know much about these things, but i averaging around 165 bpm while i was climbing. I'm 25 so my theoretical max should be 195bpm, and my resting rate is around 55bpm, i see a lot of things on the internet so it's a bit confusing. On these kinds of climb (1000m, around 10%), what bpm should I aim for? I felt like I could have gone faster, yet according to what I see 165bpm should be around the max bpm i should go for...
I know it doesn't really matter, but as I said, i'm curious :D
HR varies massively from person to person. I've got one friend who is 19 and his threshold HR is a smidge over 200. Max is like 220 or something. Another teammate is 25 or something and his max HR is just 170. Threshold closer to 150.
1000m is a good climb, should be somewhere between 40 and 60 minutes, so more or less at threshold is what you would be aiming for. However, without knowing max that is a shot in the dark. Is you really want to make use of HR it's best to figure out both your max and threshold HR. Max basically means doing some hard repeats, then at the very end of the last hard repeat you go all in sprinting to empty the tank and then take the highest HR you see. Threshold HR you can get from finding an approx 1hr climb and go up it as hard as you can. HR near the end is threshold HR. Or if that's a little too demanding/impractical you can get an estimate if you do 2x20 min repeat w/5 min recovery, HR at the end of 2nd 20' interval would be roughly threshold HR.
From there you can just check the cycling HR zone charts and figure out where HR is.
All that said, I think when it comes to riding/running, it's still best to run by feel. HR can vary quite a bit day to day depending on many factors. Some days riding I will be at 135bpm and it feels like crap, other days I might be going 150bpm at similar effort and it feels great. Where HR is nice is for picking up patterns in training, or if you have high HR and feel like crap it's usually a good indicator that taking the day easy or off is in order.
Thanks, weather should be nice next week so i'll try this. You seem to be quite interested in sport physiology, do you have any good reference, online if possible so i could educate myself? ( after all i'm training to be a doctor, so i should learn about these things ^^).
To malinor: congrats, looks like some very solid progress, i'm sure you'd be a beast a 93kg!
I ran 9km in about 50~minutes, was doing my normal 5km but felt good enough to run a bit more and just chose another route. Thought I was doing 10km but after calculating at home it was only 9km. Still really happy because I felt like I could've added on another km and felt just fine. I didn't keep track of the time leaving but I messaged my friend before running and checked the time when I got back and screamed at my friend about what time I sent the message haha, was well under an hour.
Background, I got fat last year/half-year, added 15lbs of basically fat pushing me to 190lb at 6'0, used to try to run but never seriously because of respiratory/stomach/knee problems. Been a lot more active the last 2 months, mixing in running with lifting, bouldering, skating and archery. Ran 7km once 2 weeks ago, otherwise never run more than 5km or 30 minutes in my entire life... Really happy with my progress :D
Hope to run a half-marathon at some point in the future, and a full marathon if I'm still running by then, hopefully I'm on a good track
Also hoping it's normal that the days immediately after pushing it (like today after I did the 9km outlier run yesterday), my legs feel really stressed the first 15 minutes of the run, then loosen up a bit, but I run a bit slower. Hopefully that's normal?
On November 18 2015 14:35 Blisse wrote: PR yesterday :D
I ran 9km in about 50~minutes, was doing my normal 5km but felt good enough to run a bit more and just chose another route. Thought I was doing 10km but after calculating at home it was only 9km. Still really happy because I felt like I could've added on another km and felt just fine. I didn't keep track of the time leaving but I messaged my friend before running and checked the time when I got back and screamed at my friend about what time I sent the message haha, was well under an hour.
Background, I got fat last year/half-year, added 15lbs of basically fat pushing me to 190lb at 6'0, used to try to run but never seriously because of respiratory/stomach/knee problems. Been a lot more active the last 2 months, mixing in running with lifting, bouldering, skating and archery. Ran 7km once 2 weeks ago, otherwise never run more than 5km or 30 minutes in my entire life... Really happy with my progress :D
Hope to run a half-marathon at some point in the future, and a full marathon if I'm still running by then, hopefully I'm on a good track
Also hoping it's normal that the days immediately after pushing it (like today after I did the 9km outlier run yesterday), my legs feel really stressed the first 15 minutes of the run, then loosen up a bit, but I run a bit slower. Hopefully that's normal?
Nice stuff, sounds like your off to a solid start!
And yea, it's normal to be a little stiff at the start of a run after a hard workout the day before. Running slower after is probably more you adjusting to being tired and backing it off a bit as a consequence.
Hey all... wonder if any of u guys have any experience with stomach issues after a long run? I just came off a 20km run last night and felt nauseous and slightly feverish shortly after that. Pretty much felt the same way for the whole of today and even had some diarrhea in the morning, though it seems to be clearing up a little.
I'm like super irritated when shit like this happens, and in fact that isn't the first time this had happened. The last time I ran anything more than 12 miles I experienced something similar as well. Any tips on how to deal with this?
After stucking at 5:30 for a couple of weeks i managed to beat 5:20 (even 5:10) @ 5k I consider this a huge win as i started just a month and a half ago. 10k sub 60 and going Just wanted to share cause it feels amazing!
I've had a weak november. First month i havent made progress in 2015 (that's ok though, obviously it's a long game after getting in a good routine)
Re clazz: i havent had too nany lingering effects for hours post-run but recently like 4 of my last 8 10-12 mile runs i've been having some stomach issues like immediately after or at tail end of the run. I've never really done longer runs and never had problems before, and it makes me worried in my planned step to marathon
But with the winter time i'm doing intervals on the dreadmill so should be lower mileage (not that i was high mileage--never went above 50 miles for a Monday to Sunday time period)
On November 25 2015 09:45 Striker.superfreunde wrote: After stucking at 5:30 for a couple of weeks i managed to beat 5:20 (even 5:10) @ 5k I consider this a huge win as i started just a month and a half ago. 10k sub 60 and going Just wanted to share cause it feels amazing!
Happy [late] Thanksgiving to you all! Very happy to be part of a community that keeps me inspired, informed, and entertained.
10K last weekend was won by over a minute (chip time) but received 3rd gun time. Stomach issues kept me in the biffy line past the start of the race. >.< Fun to run it from behind, though, good experience and technical challenge (slippy course).
Hope you're all warm, well-fed, and able to get out for a run over this holiday season!
Ahhh some mornings waking up and going running feels just impossible.. this week is not going too well with training (I've been traveling Mon-Tue and yesterday and today I didn't do anything..)
I've been trying (with success!) to run 3+ times per week (usually 1 easy 10k, 1 faster 10k, 1 faster workout, 1 long run on the week-end) from the beginning of October until now.. it's not the time to give up! Also, I should find a race in January so that I have a definite goal (half-marathon) in mind..
Hopefully I'll be able to do something tomorrow and Saturday, though I have friends visiting and staying at my place so it will be tricky
Question: I see many of you use Strava (and I actually subscribed to the TL list), can I upload my runs/times/distances manually even if I don't have a GPS tracker, or do I have to use some sort of device (like GPS) to dump the data on Strava?
Usually I run with a very basic watch to take my time and I measure the distance I will run on a map before starting (very old school )
On December 04 2015 20:41 VHbb wrote: Luckily today I got my morning run (finally..)
Question: I see many of you use Strava (and I actually subscribed to the TL list), can I upload my runs/times/distances manually even if I don't have a GPS tracker, or do I have to use some sort of device (like GPS) to dump the data on Strava?
Usually I run with a very basic watch to take my time and I measure the distance I will run on a map before starting (very old school )
ciao!
Yes, you can manually add a run to Strava - it'll just ask for the distance and "type."
Good job getting out the door, I've hit a winter lazy streak myself. Watching results come in from NF 50mile yesterday was pretty awesome, though: should keep me inspired this coming week!
Had a race today, finished with a new 10k PR at 47:09min (before: 49:19min). https://www.strava.com/activities/445300884 It was a 3,3km round course and during the last round I had to lap so many people, that definitely cost me some time. Besides that, my body felt pretty average and I feel like I gave it my everything and didn't leave much in the tank. So that time is pretty much what I can race on a normal day over 10k
The race "finished" at 9.95km / 47:09 on my Garmin, so I walked through the end zone for 50m to get a 10km time for Strava ;-) ... it was so crowded, the last 50m took me 24seconds.
My weight is stagnating just below 100kg because I am simply eating too much. On the one hand that really pisses me off, on the other hand I could probably break 45min just by losing those damn 10kg that are left. I really need my act together eating wise, it is just hard.
On December 07 2015 00:42 Malinor wrote: Had a race today, finished with a new 10k PR at 47:09min (before: 49:19min). https://www.strava.com/activities/445300884 It was a 3,3km round course and during the last round I had to lap so many people, that definitely cost me some time. Besides that, my body felt pretty average and I feel like I gave it my everything and didn't leave much in the tank. So that time is pretty much what I can race on a normal day over 10k
The race "finished" at 9.95km / 47:09 on my Garmin, so I walked through the end zone for 50m to get a 10km time for Strava ;-) ... it was so crowded, the last 50m took me 24seconds.
My weight is stagnating just below 100kg because I am simply eating too much. On the one hand that really pisses me off, on the other hand I could probably break 45min just by losing those damn 10kg that are left. I really need my act together eating wise, it is just hard.
Welcome to my life. I feel your pain.
On the other hand, that's an excellent nice new PR especially having to lap a bunch of people. Not only does that makes you run extra distance, it also is costly in that you generally are having to alter your stride mechanics + accelerate/decelerate. Good race!
On December 07 2015 00:42 Malinor wrote: Had a race today, finished with a new 10k PR at 47:09min (before: 49:19min). https://www.strava.com/activities/445300884 It was a 3,3km round course and during the last round I had to lap so many people, that definitely cost me some time. Besides that, my body felt pretty average and I feel like I gave it my everything and didn't leave much in the tank. So that time is pretty much what I can race on a normal day over 10k
The race "finished" at 9.95km / 47:09 on my Garmin, so I walked through the end zone for 50m to get a 10km time for Strava ;-) ... it was so crowded, the last 50m took me 24seconds.
My weight is stagnating just below 100kg because I am simply eating too much. On the one hand that really pisses me off, on the other hand I could probably break 45min just by losing those damn 10kg that are left. I really need my act together eating wise, it is just hard.
Congrats on the PR, that's an impressive improvement compared to your last one especially as it seems like you had some things to slow you down. As for the diet... it's going to be hard with the holiday season coming but good luck, 45 min should be a formality if you lose this weight!
Hey guys! So how are your runs going? I'm very happy with the fact that I'm keeping up with 3-4 workouts per week, even if some weeks I don't really plan in advance what to do and I end up doing more easy runs than I'd like (at the cost of faster or longer workouts), consistency makes me very happy!!
Do you have some plans for the holidays ? Usually the Christmas break is a nice period for me, no work and lots of relax means that I can run almost every day .. of course there is the "side effect" of the huge meals with relatives / friends and parties which can bring me down a little bit running-wise ..
This year it's very warm, so the cold shouldn't be too much of a problem (Europe - France and Italy)
Finished up an excellent mini-cycle the last 6-7 weeks. Was focusing on some of the shorter more VO2 max oriented power with my coach and set a killer new 5' power PR at 392w, with some serious potential to improve on that as I started out on just 370w for first 1.5' and didn't really try to sprint at the end either. Also managed to knock my Manitou Incline PR yesterday down to 24:11 despite icy conditions, hoping to look towards a strava top 10 on the incline over the next 4-5 months.
Really made a point of focusing on getting killer 8-9hrs sleep every night and cutting out all junk food. Best little period I've ever had in terms of my diet, almost no processed/sugar shit except for 4 recovery days where I let 10-15% calories come from junk food.
Probably the closest I've ever felt to getting my diet under control. Weight also hit a new, though small, 2015 low of 147.2lbs or just under 67kg.
Now I'll be taking probably 2 weeks off, with maybe a Christmas/NewYears ride, as it's been over a year since I last had any sort of break. I'll be writing a full year recap sometime around New Years, but I'm pretty excited for next season especially considering how much I feel like I'm really beginning to learn about controlling my eating urges and fixing the diet.
Finished up an excellent mini-cycle the last 6-7 weeks. Was focusing on some of the shorter more VO2 max oriented power with my coach and set a killer new 5' power PR at 392w, with some serious potential to improve on that as I started out on just 370w for first 1.5' and didn't really try to sprint at the end either. Also managed to knock my Manitou Incline PR yesterday down to 24:11 despite icy conditions, hoping to look towards a strava top 10 on the incline over the next 4-5 months.
Really made a point of focusing on getting killer 8-9hrs sleep every night and cutting out all junk food. Best little period I've ever had in terms of my diet, almost no processed/sugar shit except for 4 recovery days where I let 10-15% calories come from junk food.
Probably the closest I've ever felt to getting my diet under control. Weight also hit a new, though small, 2015 low of 147.2lbs or just under 67kg.
Now I'll be taking probably 2 weeks off, with maybe a Christmas/NewYears ride, as it's been over a year since I last had any sort of break. I'll be writing a full year recap sometime around New Years, but I'm pretty excited for next season especially considering how much I feel like I'm really beginning to learn about controlling my eating urges and fixing the diet.
PS: Merry Christmas everybody!!!
Can't believe you're still riding outside in icy conditions, especially up climbs, the descends gotta be much trickier to navigate than when we rode them . 147lbs that's awesome!, I think you were in the 150's last time i saw you. My weight has gone down a bit too, I probably can lose 1 more kg, but gonna work on that after new years
Looking forward to a new 2016 edition thread - always like to see peoples' perspective on the last year and goals for the year to come.
Will be doing a few 5k's in the next month, but in general have been pretty busy/lazy and haven't gotten out for many runs this holiday. Here's hoping I can back into a decent winter running pattern after the holidays.
EPT
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