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On August 24 2015 01:37 Bonham wrote: Edmonton half in 1:13. Legs just didn't have it today. I'm feeling disappointed. Will write more when I have time; maybe this afternoon.
Dang. It happens sometimes though, endurance athletics is fickle and on occasions the form just isn't there on race day even if the fitness to run a good time is there.
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Darn, Bonham. Still a great time - and it looks like your friend Chris also a hard race? Write about it when you have time, and if you want.
Peach festival 5k was pretty fun this year. Got another peach pie, 2nd place overall. Got beat by a 13-year-old boy from Fort Collins, which is kinda an awesome and strange event. Whatever moral qualms I would have had about sprint finishing to beat him were quickly rendered moot by his quick downhill legs at about mile 2.5. Future Galen Rupp?
And speaking of wonder boys, good to see Mo Farah in grand racing form as always. Had to work for it, but it looks like he's really going to be primed and hungry for the 5k win as well.
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This space held for a race report. It's in the works, guys! Just turns out I'm slow in more ways than one.
Glad to hear you won a sweet pie, mtmentat. It was also kind of you to let that squirt win. :p
I was glad to see Farah be forced to run an actual race to win the championship this year. Can't wait to see how the 5k plays out on Saturday morning!
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On August 23 2015 05:59 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2015 00:36 Clazziquai10 wrote:Alright guyz, haven't posted much about running lately, so here goes. I'm currently focusing on a 5k road race coming up in a week. I've worked my 5k PB down to 20:58 (recorded during a time trial on a track 2 weeks ago) from 22:25 nearly 3 months ago. I think I have a great shot at making 20:45 at the race. Thing is, I just fully recovered from a bad bout of stomach flu and fever over the past 4 days or so, and am looking to ease back into easy runs for the next few days. Planning to do some tempo runs before the race, but to be honest, I'm not even sure what shape I'm in post illness. Have any of u guys raced shortly after recovering and can I find out how well you did? Btw, can I also ask any of u guys who had managed to break 20 mins for the 5K - how long did you take to progress from 21 mins to 20 mins or even sub-19 or 18? Idk but doing 96 second laps for 12.5 laps just feels impossibrruuu at the moment and it just seems so damm hard! Just before I got sick I was doing 4x1200m intervals @ 95s per lap and 3:30 rest in between and I was completely spent at the end of it, as if I'd just ran a race. I barely managed to hit all the splits and down to the last set my mind was like "fuck this shit" but I somehow managed to dig deep and push through. P.S. I'm just turned 24, my height is 161cm and weigh 54kg for those who wanna know. Cheers and thanks in advance for any advice Hey, congrats on the PB! Looks like you're in the middle of making some tremendous progress. I've never raced a 5k on a track, but I ran 16:09 in a road time trial and usually hit 16-mid in the odd 5k I jump into. (Marathons and half-marathons are where it's at, btw.) I don't have any distinctive memories of the first time I broke 20 or what I did to get there, but your question reminds me of a mindset people sometimes have when they first get into running: very ambitious expectations about their rate of improvement. Taking almost two minutes off your 5k PB is a really big chunk. Doing it inside of three months is phenomenal. If you keep training, sub-20 will come eventually. The rule of thumb I've heard is that most people have at least 10 years of gains ahead of them when they start running. Also, getting faster is not always uniform–you might train and train for months and see no improvement, and then one week notice you're way faster than you used to be. It's important to remind yourself that hard work always pays dividends eventually.
Thanks! Sometimes I do feel like I'll never improve beyond 20 minutes, but hopefully I'll be proven wrong
On August 23 2015 14:14 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2015 00:36 Clazziquai10 wrote:Alright guyz, haven't posted much about running lately, so here goes. I'm currently focusing on a 5k road race coming up in a week. I've worked my 5k PB down to 20:58 (recorded during a time trial on a track 2 weeks ago) from 22:25 nearly 3 months ago. I think I have a great shot at making 20:45 at the race. Thing is, I just fully recovered from a bad bout of stomach flu and fever over the past 4 days or so, and am looking to ease back into easy runs for the next few days. Planning to do some tempo runs before the race, but to be honest, I'm not even sure what shape I'm in post illness. Have any of u guys raced shortly after recovering and can I find out how well you did? Btw, can I also ask any of u guys who had managed to break 20 mins for the 5K - how long did you take to progress from 21 mins to 20 mins or even sub-19 or 18? Idk but doing 96 second laps for 12.5 laps just feels impossibrruuu at the moment and it just seems so damm hard! Just before I got sick I was doing 4x1200m intervals @ 95s per lap and 3:30 rest in between and I was completely spent at the end of it, as if I'd just ran a race. I barely managed to hit all the splits and down to the last set my mind was like "fuck this shit" but I somehow managed to dig deep and push through. P.S. I'm just turned 24, my height is 161cm and weigh 54kg for those who wanna know. Cheers and thanks in advance for any advice Illness - It really varies from person to person. Some take bigger hits to fitness from illness than others. If you were good and sick, not able to do much and throwing up a bunch or running a good fever...I wouldn't expect a particularly good race. Usually if I get a nasty multi-day bug it takes a week or two to feel back up to where I was My sub 20 anecdote - I'm one of those "phenomenal" people Bonham mentioned. I went from 24 5k to 18:20 in about 6 months. I dabbled in running senior year of HS and first year of college. Maybe 15-50 kpw of just easy runs. Think I ran 21:xx once. Then I get back to being lazy and was more or less sedentary for the next two years. Starting back up again from more or less scratch I got serious. Started off in about 24:00 shape in April 11', went from 0-40mpw immediately, and then from April to June I built up to 115 kpw. Ran 18:52 and 19:04 in July, both on very short courses. Both races were about 6:30 pace, or 20:15 5k range. Added in some speedwork over Aug/Sep, but didn't race again until early October where I ran 18:21. So for me it was about 6 months from out of shape to 18:20, and probably about 4 months to sub 20. After that 18:20 I fell into a trap of basically just doing 100 kpw with a weekly tempo for the next 9 months and didn't really improve much after that, I suspect because I didn't really give my body any new training stimulus. I allegedly ran 17:51 about 9 months after that 18:21, but I've come to believe that was also a significantly short course, as around that I'd only ever run 18 highs/19 lows. Nov of 2012 I got a groin pull that through various circumstances and my own mistakes kept me from running for the next 20 months or so. Been doing mostly cycling since my return in mid 2014. Training Thoughts - Your weight is not a significant hindrance at all, and without knowing your BF% you might already be incredibly lean. General rule of thumb for elites is BMI around 20, which you're not far from. If you're in 21:00 shape, then yes 96s/lap should feel pretty tough. That's 12 s/km, which is a BIG difference. Your training might close that gap quickly, but I know as a 18:20 guy trying to run 3:30/km pace would certainly seem impossible. I could probably go 800m at that pace and feel tolerable, but after 1500m I would be hurting badly. Without knowing your training history it's hard to say, but if you have a good mix of general mileage, threshold runs, and your track work you'll no doubt find 95s laps becoming easier. Bonham does make a very good point about improvement, don't get discouraged if every race isn't faster, or every workout isn't better. You really can go a month not feeling like you're getting anywhere and then suddenly over the next week find you're running 10 s/km faster.
Wow! Still I guess it's easier if you'd ran competitively in the past, but I started out never having trained at all, at least for running. I'm on around 40 to 50km per week - 100kpw sounds pretty insane to me. I'm not sure I can even get there, and it will be pretty time consuming I guess... what kind of training stimuli (or lack thereof) are you referring to when u were talking about your rut?
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On August 26 2015 08:33 Clazziquai10 wrote:
Wow! Still I guess it's easier if you'd ran competitively in the past, but I started out never having trained at all, at least for running. I'm on around 40 to 50km per week - 100kpw sounds pretty insane to me. I'm not sure I can even get there, and it will be pretty time consuming I guess... what kind of training stimuli (or lack thereof) are you referring to when u were talking about your rut?
I hadn't run competitively in the past. Those first two years I just jogged for 30 min to an hour most days of the week, a far cry from competitive running. No doubt it layed down a little fitness base for when I started again a few years later, but I definitely wasn't a guy who had 15:30 5k training and muscle memory left in his legs.
From the physical side of things, you absolutely can get to 100kpw...or more. Of course that's dependent on having the desire and schedule that allows for it. They key is just building mileage gradually listening to the body. Adding something like 5-10 km per week for 3-4 weeks, then allow yourself a week at half of what you built to, then build again is how you'd go about it. If any weeks start to feel particularly tough, you'd repeat the previous week and then try again.
From the time side of things I really don't find it too bad. As a 20:xx guy, I'd expect your normal run pace for an easy run to be around 5:10-5:30/km, so even at 100 km/wk that's just 8-9 hours a week of running, which means less than an hour most days and maybe a longer run of 1.5-2 hours on the weekend.
Cycling on the other hand....20-30 hour weeks are the norm. Time commitment central.
With all that said, the only reason you would need to worry about 100+ kpw is if you're extremely dedicated to becoming a very good runner. Don't get the idea it's something you need to do to be a great runner. For some high mileage works very well, for others they can be darn near equally as successful running 60-80 kpw with focus on a smart training plan and quality sessions. You won't ever reach 100% of your potential on less than 100kpw, but you could probably reach 98% of it. I would say that 40-50 kpw is pretty darn low mileage though. You'd likely get quite a bit better just bumping that up into the 60-70 kpw range. That gives you enough mileage to get in a decent longer run, and not have standard workouts be taxing both from an intensity and duration standpoint.
On August 26 2015 08:33 Clazziquai10 wrote: what kind of training stimuli (or lack thereof) are you referring to when u were talking about your rut?
I fell back into the trap on doing nothing but easy runs every day. I was running about 100 kpw, but I was always running 4:30-5:00/km pace, with maybe one day a week doing 6km at 3:55/km.
After a couple months of that the body adapts to the stimulus and doesn't really improve because there is no unique or progressive stress to the system.
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As promised, a race report has been written. It's pretty long (almost 1500 words), so I'm going to spoiler it to avoid offending the uninterested.
+ Show Spoiler +Robbie Burns once said that the best laid plans of mice and men aft gang agly. If I interpret him correctly, though it is always difficult to be certain with a Scotsman, my experience this weekend offers proof of this.
The first hint I had that things would not go well came the week before the race. My training club, the RRAC, had many runners in the weekend's races and we all met for a tuneup workout on Wednesday. Our coach gave the half-marathoners, which consisted of me and two other guys, a 20 minute tempo followed by 15 reps of 30 seconds hard then 30 seconds easy. Running 3:30/km for the tempo felt kind of labored. Not hard, but harder than it should have been. Goal pace for the race was 3:23, after all.
But training is a mysterious thing, in my experience. Some workouts go well, others go poorly. Your legs are tired. It is hot. Your guts misbehave. It is cold. Just the right song comes on the iPod at just the right moment. Such things make a run a triumph or an ordeal. So I wasn't thrilled when my legs felt so heavy on Wednesday, but I didn't panic either. I had three days of easy running to get them rested up.
Come race day, I felt very confident that I had an excellent shot at 1:11:30. I'd run 1:13 on this exact course one year ago, and I had run over 6,000km in training since then. I ran 1:12-high in Vancouver in the spring on a tougher course. I had a good plan, good company to run with, good weather, and lots of support from the crowds and the other people on the course. I've really gotten to know lots of people in the running community around here this year, and it was awesome to see so many chasing PBs on Sunday.
Things started to go pear-shaped almost right from the gun. Chris and I set out right around goal pace for the first few k, easing into things a bit and avoiding my favorite mistake, which is to run the first mile in about five minutes flat. But we were a party of two where we'd expected to be a trio. Another member of my club, a very talented runner named Jevin who received a full scholarship to run stateside in university and who was trying to move up to the half, had agreed to hang with us and share pacing duties–at least for the first half. He's probably a 1:09 or faster runner on a good day, so I wasn't expecting him to be with us all the way if things went well.
But I also wasn't expecting him to take off in the wake of the leaders. He probably put 400 metres on us inside the first three k. As he pushed ahead, Chris told me he'd be pace bait for us later. He turned out to be right. Sort of.
After a little while, we fell in with the lead woman, who I later learned was an Olympian from New Zealand. She was running right at 3:23 though, I felt, it sounded like she was working a bit too hard to do so. Still, she had a bike pacing her, and as the first five k of the course overlapped with the 10k race and were therefore very crowded, I was grateful for the course-clearing guidance.
(This runner also, incidentally, was wearing a running outfit that met the demands of decency, but not by too great a margin. In a singlet and split shorts I was pretty chilly for most of the race. She must have been freezing. I have no idea why some people don't wear more clothing running most marathons. You start at seven in the morning, usually, so even if it's in the summer it's not going to be scorching. But I digress.)
The plan fell apart around four k. Chris and I had schemed to take turns at the front, alternating every two kilometres or so. But Chris was dragging more than driving the pace. I'd match pace with him for a bit, look at my watch and see 3:24, and then put in a minor surge to dial it back to 3:23. After three or four episodes of this, I realized that I was going to have to front-run the whole race if I wanted to hit 1:11.
Chris, of course, knew this well before I did. We’d talked and talked about this race so much beforehand, but he didn’t mention that he’d been battling the Demon of Plantar Fasciitis for the last month. It finally claimed him for its own on Sunday. I wonder how long he knew he probably wouldn’t be able to follow the plan. I suspect he kept up appearances to buoy my own confidence.
I put a bit of a gap on Chris shortly after five k, right where the course started to get a bit twisty. He called out to me to remember to run the tangents, and then I more or less left him behind.
So I was alone. Jevin was way up ahead and the race leaders well past him. Chris and the Kiwi woman were somewhere behind me. For the next mile and a half, I cruised along at race pace and felt pretty OK. Not strong enough to consider going after Jevin, but strong enough that the goal seemed real.
Around here the course turned onto a long straight stretch going south on 142nd street. The wind was blowing north. In my race gear, it felt like I was in a wind tunnel.
It was here that the race really slipped away from me. My legs felt unexpectedly heavy. I could see Jevin, maybe 400 metres ahead, but my urge to go and catch him, or at least maintain the gap, seemed carried away by the wind. I started to suspect that this wasn’t going to be much fun. I think I ran in the 3:25-3:30 range here.
It got worse when I hit end of 142 street, around 10k in. When I ran this last year, I pushed hard pretty much right to the end. Things got fairly uncomfortable, sure, especially towards the end, but the prize always seemed to outshine the pain.
This time, somehow, all I could focus on was how miserable I felt. My legs were made of stone. The plantars fasciitis in my left foot was uppity. My knees were unhappy. The course was too twisty. My hair looked dumb. I was going to run 1:20. My shorts were too short. What business did I have in a race, anyway? Running is dumb. Why do I spend so much time on it? Because I’m dumb, obviously. And slow to boot.
Negative thoughts overwhelmed me in the second half. I slowed down markedly, running in the high 3:30s for kilometres 16 to 20. I could have pushed harder, I think, but I was mentally beaten. When the Kiwi woman caught me with one k to go, I could hear her breathing like a bellows. I had been slacking for about two miles at that point, and theoretically could have summoned a kick to put her away pretty easily, but I just didn’t care.
I was kind of surprised, when I crossed the finish line, to see that I’d actually run 1:13 low. It really felt like I was headed for 1:14 or 1:15. It made me sad, because I still could have pushed for a PB when 1:11 left the picture, but I was too mentally weak to seize the opportunity.
One consolation for my wounded spirit is that almost no one I know had a good race on Sunday. Chris limped home in 1:14. Jevin pulled a muscle around 12k and DNFd. My buddy Simon, who was aiming to break 33 in the 10k, got lead off course by the lead cyclist and DNF’d. Even Tom, who won the marathon, only ran 2:28. He took a second off his PB too, which is always sweet, but given the summer he’s been having–crushing everything in his path, basically–even he was a bit wistful when we met up afterwards.
The other balm, of course, is that this is just one day. Everyone has off days, I’m told. I’ve been thinking about Sam Elliot’s mustachioed narrator in the Big Lebowski, and how he says “Sometimes you eat the bear. Sometimes, the bear eats you.” As mtmentat told me, bears gotta eat too.
But this particular ursine damn well better enjoy his meal, because when the Okanagan marathon rolls around on October 11, I intend to show up feeling positively voracious.
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HELL YEAH. Cold run with people's paces all going off-track will do that to you. Take the day, and use it during training runs (as Strava might have already indicated) but stay healthy till the Okanagan. Man, you guys are all in such good shape but just had bad races.
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For any interested persons, the Ultra Trail du Mont-Blanc is currently ongoing. Results and video are at utmb.livetrail.net/. Gogogo, Ryan Smith, Sage Canaday, Seth Swanson, Eric Lee!! Allez allez, Stephanie Howe, Darcy Africa, & Amy Roston!!
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Anyone watch Mo in the 5k this morning? What a silly race. At least Nkidu started the kick from 800m, but really, if you're not going to challenge him until inside the last 1500 you are deciding to lose. The east African strategy for beating him, at this point, seems to be to wait until he turns 40.
Did my first big marathon pace workout of this build this morning, with most promising results. 25k at 3:32/km felt as easy as breathing. Probably could have pushed it down to 3:31 or 3:30 over the last five k, but I kept reminding myself that the point was to simulate a marathon and not run 25k as fast as possible. Gels and water went down smooth. I almost wanted to just run another 17 and have done with it.
Morale is on the rebound!
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Didn't get up early to watch, unfortunately. Stayed up too late last night refreshing the UTMB website listings
Glad to see you had a good workout, Bonham! Always helps, after a bad race. Seriously, though, looking back on your half - the 15x 30sec (effectively 200m) speedwork the Wed before can't have helped your performance. I think that your walk racing years are far, far in the future.
Final shoutout: Ryan Smith - epic performance for 9th place at UTMB. Really glad to see a friend do well (esp. after his somewhat disappointing Western States run). Just wow, and awe for all those who decided to run 170km around Mont-Blanc.
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Well, those were on-offs, so it's not like I was sprinting. But I take your point; I wasn't particularly fresh heading into the race. Coincidentally, I asked my coach if he thought 2:30 was still realistic after the half went so poorly, and he said "Of course. I ran you guys pretty hard going into the race to simulate what the last half of a marathon feels like." I thought he was just being nice at the time, but after today I'm reconsidering.
Running 170k in a single go is a sure sign of insanity, incidentally. How do you know these elite guys? You're not planning to become an ultra runner yourself, are you?
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Haha! Depending on who you ask, I'm already an ultra runner (50k trail). I think I'll tackle the 50 mile next year, not sure which one yet. Rocky Mountain Runners (local club) boasts quite a few very, very talented ultra runners I can train with and learn from.
The fun part about elite ultrarunners, as far as I can tell, is that they just care about running, mountains, and good food. No drama, no elitism or ego issues, just out for a run and then a beer (which I usually skip). Seriously grounded, mostly happy people.
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Hey all, I'm a really inexperienced runner and last night I tried some of the tips that I read in the OP (stand up straight, hips forward, proper nobleman posing). As I got used to the hip forwards thing I started feeling like this was accentuating the motion of my ass, like I was a black chick walking down a catwalk in a pair of tight pants, shaking it like I was getting paid for it. I was more rolling my hips over the top of my legs than I was thrusting from my feet and up. Does this sound right to you?
Caused some chafing on my perineum (had to google).
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Zurich15259 Posts
Shaved 90s of my second attempt at 5k: 23:17 last night. Although I am pretty sure the better time is from running at sea level versus running at 2000m altitude. At least the 23:17 felt significantly easier than the 24:45 last week when I was running in Kenya.
Good news is I'll be up there again for two weeks so after training more 5Ks at that altitude I should get down to 20minutes reasonably fast when I am back home.
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If i miss my bus on the way to work, i have to wait around 15-30 minutes which is quite a lot so it is quite important. A month ago(7th of august to be exact) i saw the bus on the way to bus stop and decided to catch it by running. I caught it but i was breathing heavily after that for a while. I decided to start running before work by waking up at 6AM that day because it saved me 15 minutes and felt good. Today i passed the 100km mark(80 of it logged on nike+ running) I am still really slow but feeling proud
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On September 02 2015 20:54 Osmoses wrote: Hey all, I'm a really inexperienced runner and last night I tried some of the tips that I read in the OP (stand up straight, hips forward, proper nobleman posing). As I got used to the hip forwards thing I started feeling like this was accentuating the motion of my ass, like I was a black chick walking down a catwalk in a pair of tight pants, shaking it like I was getting paid for it. I was more rolling my hips over the top of my legs than I was thrusting from my feet and up. Does this sound right to you?
Caused some chafing on my perineum (had to google).
For my part, I really only think about running form when I'm doing strides or when I really want to hit the jets and ignore my nervous system, like in the final 120 seconds of a tempo run or during the whole of a 5k. (L_Master, feel free to jump in and disagree here.) My thinking at such moments is as follows: "Hips forward, shoulders back, neck relaxed, kick it."
But that's really high-end effort stuff. To improve your running economy on easy runs, I believe conventional wisdom is to just run more. Over time your central nervous system will figure out what works. When I started, I had crazy lateral movement in my upper body, but gradually I ran that bad habit out of my stride. Now I have different bad habits, but that's another story
On September 03 2015 02:04 Isualin wrote:Today i passed the 100km mark(80 of it logged on nike+ running) I am still really slow but feeling proud
One of us! One of us! ONE OF US!
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On September 03 2015 14:26 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2015 20:54 Osmoses wrote: Hey all, I'm a really inexperienced runner and last night I tried some of the tips that I read in the OP (stand up straight, hips forward, proper nobleman posing). As I got used to the hip forwards thing I started feeling like this was accentuating the motion of my ass, like I was a black chick walking down a catwalk in a pair of tight pants, shaking it like I was getting paid for it. I was more rolling my hips over the top of my legs than I was thrusting from my feet and up. Does this sound right to you?
Caused some chafing on my perineum (had to google). For my part, I really only think about running form when I'm doing strides or when I really want to hit the jets and ignore my nervous system, like in the final 120 seconds of a tempo run or during the whole of a 5k. (L_Master, feel free to jump in and disagree here.) My thinking at such moments is as follows: "Hips forward, shoulders back, neck relaxed, kick it." But that's really high-end effort stuff. To improve your running economy on easy runs, I believe conventional wisdom is to just run more. Over time your central nervous system will figure out what works. When I started, I had crazy lateral movement in my upper body, but gradually I ran that bad habit out of my stride. Now I have different bad habits, but that's another story
I'm still a little bit torn here, and really so is the opinion of coaches. On the one hand there is a lot to be said for doing what is naturakl and under the stress of training ones body adapts to what is most effective. On the other hand, every other sport we do has elements of skill and technique that people practice and hone.
i think the roblem with running is that we don't really know what "good form" is. We can identify what pretty form is, but not what is functionally good (good being taken to mean either reducing injury or being more efficient and using less oxygen at a give pace). It's well observed that for many runners what looks pretty is not necessarily what uses the least oxygen.
There are some general form cues that are good to think about, but like Bonham says, I'd really only worry about those when either doing drills or strides.
Shaved 90s of my second attempt at 5k: 23:17 last night. Although I am pretty sure the better time is from running at sea level versus running at 2000m altitude. At least the 23:17 felt significantly easier than the 24:45 last week when I was running in Kenya.
Good news is I'll be up there again for two weeks so after training more 5Ks at that altitude I should get down to 20minutes reasonably fast when I am back home.
Good stuff! The difference between 2000m and sea level is significant. Depends on the person and race speed but for a 5000 anywhere between 30s and 120s could easily be from altitude. I'm at least 7% faster down here, maybe as much as 10%. Whenever I'm down at sea level I am now it's like a god mode hack, just crazy what I can do. My easy jog is usually 45+ s/mile (30 s/km) faster than what it is back up at 2300m in Colorado.
As for the 5k times, I don't want to discourage you, but I also don't want you to have unrealistic expectations and then be disappointed. Going from 23:xx 5k down to 20:00 is a BIG jump. I'd be very surprised if you made that improvement unless you're doing one of these three:
1) You're brand new to running and have done very little in training 2) You just made a significant change to your training such as a large increase in mileage, or going from nothing but jogging to a structured, well formulated training plan 3) You're losing a significant amount of body fat
Outside of those, for people that have been running for more than a few months taking a minute off ones 5k is a fantastic season. Bottom line is have an aggressive goal like that, it's good, but realize that kind of improvement might be a very big ask.
I went from 23:xx down to 18:21 in 7 months...but had all three of those factors going for me. I hadn't run in two years, and hadn't run much prior to those two years, I lost over 12kg, and I jumped all the way up to 100km/wk
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Good god. I've always thought I was WAY stronger at sea level than I am at altitude. Never known for sure and just based that off how runs felt.
Today with a power meter I got a chance to confirm that. Unreal. At a minimum I'm 10% better here than altitude. Which squares well with running observations as 7' pace feels like jogging here.
315W for 25' starting at 290W and working up. Even at 340W I felt fairly controlled. Then 5×5' at 360W average with 2' recovery. Easily could have done a couple more.
I don't doubt for a second I could do 330W for 60' and 360W for 20'. Becoming pretty certain I've got the engine to ride in the domestic peleton, now just gotta see if I can pair that engine with a lean body. Still making steady progress on that end. 67kg yesterday. 7 more to go to complete the monster in the making.
I WILL discover where my potential lies this next season.
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On September 05 2015 13:18 L_Master wrote: I don't doubt for a second I could do 330W for 60' and 360W for 20'. Becoming pretty certain I've got the engine to ride in the domestic peleton, now just gotta see if I can pair that engine with a lean body. Still making steady progress on that end. 67kg yesterday. 7 more to go to complete the monster in the making.
Whoo, go L_Master go! I have no idea what these numbers mean, but I gather the upshot is you're pretty talented and will soon be a millionaire. When you hit the big time, don't forget your Internet friends.
Got through my first 30k @ marathon pace workout today. Started slightly fast and paid for it in second half, especially the last 10k which felt pretty gruesome. Slowed down a bit over last 5k, but the watch said 30k @ 3:33/k when I finished so I felt pretty ok. Now time for a nap.
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On September 06 2015 02:26 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2015 13:18 L_Master wrote: I don't doubt for a second I could do 330W for 60' and 360W for 20'. Becoming pretty certain I've got the engine to ride in the domestic peleton, now just gotta see if I can pair that engine with a lean body. Still making steady progress on that end. 67kg yesterday. 7 more to go to complete the monster in the making.
Whoo, go L_Master go! I have no idea what these numbers mean, but I gather the upshot is you're pretty talented and will soon be a millionaire. When you hit the big time, don't forget your Internet friends. Got through my first 30k @ marathon pace workout today. Started slightly fast and paid for it in second half, especially the last 10k which felt pretty gruesome. Slowed down a bit over last 5k, but the watch said 30k @ 3:33/k when I finished so I felt pretty ok. Now time for a nap.
Nice run! Even with the fade that's still right at 2:30 pace no? Sounds like you've got a real shot at the goal if you're already doing goal pace in training for 3/4 of the distance.
As for the numbers, it's all about w/kg power to weight on the bike. Over an hour that's called FTP. Attempting to suggest a level of equivalence I'd say:
3 w/kg - In shape weekend warrior. Probably something like 23:00 for 5k. Better in some respects if you're a big boy putting out that number.
3.5 w/kg - Strong weekend warrior. I'd say something like 21:00 5k being similar.
4 w/kg - Getting good. You can easily compete well at even the highest amateur categories at that power in flat races. Probably equivalent go 18:30 for 5k
4.5 w/kg - Getting into top 5% or better an competetive strava climbs. Not many riding at this level except for serious amateur racers. I'd say is is probably like 16:30 5k. You're clearly way above most but you're unlikely to be the big shot in your area.
5 w/kg - Easily into the top 1%. Can top 10 any strava climb and often KOM/CR. 5 w/kg usually good enough for top 1/4 at against climbers in the top category of am racing. Probably 15:00 5k equivalent.
5.5 w/kg - Typical value for domestic pro riders. Good enough for world tour if you're a big guy. Only exceptional amateur climbers are capable of 5.5 w/kg for an hour. Probably like running 14:00
5.8 w/kg - Solid at world tour level for a good all rounder. 13:15 5k equivalent.
6.2 w/kg - 12:40 equivalent. Need this level or better to compete for overall wins in World Tour events.
6.5 w/kg - Hot sauce baby! Back in the Lance days top guys were cranking out mid to high 6 w/kg. 12:30 equivalent.
In my case, I have the potential right now to be anywhere from 5.2-5.5 w/kg based on how lean I can get without losing power.
I'll know more over the next few months what I can do with weight, but I can certainly become a very strong regional climber...and maybe quite a bit more.
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