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Pikes Peak Hill Climb today.
Decent legs, but definitely not great ones. Was able to get onto the podium in third though, so that's a start. Might have been second had I not thought the guy in front of me was a girl not part of my race. Can;t guarantee it, but I didn't kick like crazy.
Definitely feel like I under-performed relative to what I should be capable of. Based on FTP and expected altitude loss even losing 15% I should be able to do 250-260W/1:24 ish for this climb on the right day, and managed just 235 today.
The Bad: Late start meant no time to warm up, which kinda sucks when people are throwing around 5/wkg in the first 10 minutes of the race. Had to drop back, was was worried today would be a total disaster, but after about 25 minutes I was able to stabilize into a rhythm. That cost me quite a bit.
Other than that, I think in hindsight I really needed more long tempo in a heavy gear, altitude plays a role for sure, but the grinding at sub 70rpm just wears down my power after 45+ minutes. I did some, but really think I would have benefited with some long stuff at 270W and 60rpm.
March through May - Slacked off here and instead of continuing to eat well actually put on 5lbs instead of losing 5.
For the season overall I can't complain too hard. Sure, I'm a little disappointed with the overall lack of results and yes, had I been more focused I could already be in the low 60kg range instead of 68kg, but overall I made solid strides in general fitness and body composition on the season. Almost an 11% gain in FTP while losing 12lbs from where I was in December is still good. From an FTP and power/weight standoint I'm set up well to be anywhere from good to ridiculous next season. Lots more to improve next season and over the winter too, especially when it comes to anaerobic and sprint power and just racing significantly more for experience and development.
All in all 2015 was a good campaign, I did what I set out to do in terms of getting my feet wet with racing while building a strong base and engine. 2016 is all about developing into a true racer and learning how to compete. Looking forward to that next chapter!
But now, a few chill days, and then slowly firing back up the running engine for a serious crack at 16:xx 5k sometime in Febuary.
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Hello TL! I return to necro this thread, Arthas-like. I've been MIA for a long time, I know. I'm glad to see its still ticking along.
I'm not sure I know enough cycling to correctly interpret your race recap, L_Master, but it looks to me like you futzed up the tactics a bit on this Pikes Peak race and still managed a third place finish. Most important, it sounds like you had a good time. R.e. your reflections on the season as a whole, I'm reminded of a Mark Wetmore quote my coach brought to the attention of his charges recently: "The key to becoming great isn't found on the edges of diet, science, or technology. The key is consistent, uninterrupted training." It sounds like you're on the way to becoming a pretty formidable racer!
But just out of curiosity, why did you shut it down after this particular race? Also, how goes the running campaign?
As for my own running, I'm rapidly approaching what I think of as the Time of Judgement, aka fall racing season. The Edmonton half goes down a week from today, and then the Kelowna full meal deal on Thanksgiving (that's October 12 to you American philistines out there.) I'm shooting for a 1:11 next weekend and dreaming about a 2:30 in Kelowna.
I think 1:11 is a pretty realistic goal. My PB right now, set in May, is 1:12:58, but that was on a harder course than I’ll run in Edmonton, the last half was a solo time-trial, and, most important, I’ve put in a bunch of good training since then. Been running lots of tempos in the 3:20-3:25 min/km range, which is around where I need to be. I’ll also have the benefit of a good group to work with. Two other guys I train with will be trying to run that time, so if all goes well we’ll have some competitive juices pushing us faster.
One in particular, my friend Chris, will be a real challenge. He already ran 1:11 earlier this year on an unseasonably warm day in Vancouver. I figure if I can stick with him I should be in pretty good shape, and I’ve been hanging with him pretty good when we work out together. On days when I’m feeling particularly strong, I dream about passing him in the last 5k. But he’s running really well right now, and he’s a tough son of a bitch, so if I run fast and still don’t beat him I won’t feel any shame.
Speaking of Chris, he convinced me to race my first-ever trail relay race a few months back. The Sinister 7 is an ultramarathon in southern Alberta. We ran its 100 miles as a seven-man relay team, but you can do it solo if you’re a true masochist. The top team spot is traditionally a duel between the fast teams from Edmonton and Calgary. This year we managed to win, despite Calgary bringing some pretty big guns to bear: a former Olympian who also holds the provincial 5k record, a likely future Olympian (1:07 half at age 22; should be good for 2:10-2:15 eventually, which is fast enough to make Team Canada), and the defending national masters cross-country champion. I also set a record for my leg of the race and beat my opponent, an evil bearded Calgarian who ran sub-32 for 10k in university, by nine minutes. This was particularly satisfying as, at the start of the leg, he was heard to exclaim “I’m going to catch that little shit and pull his pants down!”
But my pants stayed up.
The only real drawback of Sin 7 was the small detail that the racing is absolutely terrible and agonizing and I hate it. My leg started with a preposterous climb straight up a ski hill and got worse from there. There was none of the sense of speed or grace or determination that I like in a road race. It was just pure suffering from start to finish. I don’t know if I’ll ever come around, but I’ll probably forget enough of the details in time for next year’s race. It was certainly a fun weekend.
So that’s a bit about where I’m at. Next weekend should be a super fun time. I’ll post my results here shortly after the race and write a race report when time allows, which will probably be Monday.
I hope everyone else is enjoying themselves. Any other races on the horizon for the group?
EDIT: Whoops, it's called the Okanagan Marathon, not Kelowna. I can never keep 'em straight.
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L_Master, well done at the Hill Climb. Tough race, especially without sufficient warmup, but you gutted it out and as Bonham said the consistent effort you've put in really paid off. 'Really looking forward to hearing about the 5k training and running down in the Springs (I'm not too quick to pick up on all the biking acronyms!).
Thanks very much for the fun-to-read and upbeat post, Bonham! "Evil bearded Calgarian" had me LOLing at work. Climbing up ski hills is what we do, here in CO, on occasion (Power of 4 started straight up one, too). That Sinister 7 sounds awesome, maybe I will get out there some day. GOOD LUCK, race smart and beat Chris this weekend. 
Personally, I fell off the consistent effort wagon after Dirty 30 (50k). Apparently, it hasn't hurt me too much, since I've still been able to race "ok" since then:
*Mount Evans Ascent: really good race for me, ran it smart and consistent effort at 10k-14k elevation. Very good PB, but still really far out of the age group awards. I am getting hungry for an ice cream bowl next year...
*Power of 4 25k was ridiculous, top three spots (which I had hoped to snipe) were filled by legit pro and semi-pro trail runners. For a dinky 25k! All and all, it was a beautiful course and great day: foggy, light drizzle, cool with only a little bit too much mud. The friend I was hoping to run it with and/or was worried would beat me had a much harder day than I expected he would - hope he gets if figured out (stomach or competitiveness issues) so that we can race together in future.
*Most recently I did very well at the 50th Annual La Luz Trail Run!! After a previous discussion here about whether or not my goal of top 10 was an appropriate/good idea I was definitely supercharged to make it into this top bracket. Started a bit quick with a race bandit named Solomon, a marathoner I think of African extraction. Really smart racer, makes it look easy. He and one other guy and I packed it up for much of the trail climbing, but I had to let them go after about mile 5 for fear of bonking too hard later. I knew I was in 6/7th place, just held on an ran my own race after that. 6th overall, and 1st in the 25-29 male age group. Not just a dramatic improvement in overall placing, but about a 5 minute PB on the course, which was gratifying.
So, what am I doing next? PEACH FESTIVAL 5K IS WHAT! Only for fun and peach pie race, we'll see if my legs remember how to turn over quickly or not. In truth, I need to really add on some miles - I'm most likely doing the Rock-n-Roll Marathon in Las Vegas, and that's coming up quickly. Someone once said "you cannot wing a road marathon" and I will do my best to get a decent (if short) training cycle in to be prepared for marathon PR + good time running against my friend Matt.
Fall is almost here, gang. Enjoy the weather and get some miles!
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On August 17 2015 03:51 Bonham wrote:
Hello TL! I return to necro this thread, Arthas-like. I've been MIA for a long time, I know. I'm glad to see its still ticking along.
I'm not sure I know enough cycling to correctly interpret your race recap, L_Master, but it looks to me like you futzed up the tactics a bit on this Pikes Peak race and still managed a third place finish. Most important, it sounds like you had a good time. R.e. your reflections on the season as a whole, I'm reminded of a Mark Wetmore quote my coach brought to the attention of his charges recently: "The key to becoming great isn't found on the edges of diet, science, or technology. The key is consistent, uninterrupted training." It sounds like you're on the way to becoming a pretty formidable racer!
But just out of curiosity, why did you shut it down after this particular race? Also, how goes the running campaign?
I wouldn't say I messed up tactics, unless you count warming up as a tactic in which case I fudged badly. In bike races, unlike running races, you pretty much need to go with the pack because of the draft benefits. So even if the pack goes out suicidally, in almost all cases it's better to stay in rather than drop back at a sane pass.
Now, on steep climbs like PP this becomes a pretty marginal effect, but the first 3 miles were reasonably flat to the point it was worth it to stay in even if it meant making some crazy surges. The lack of warm up made these difficult to handle and hard to find a rhythm when we got to the steeper part where it behaves more like a running race would.
Shut it down because I'm fairly burnt out right now. I trained at 40% more volume (by time) than I ever have before with significantly more intensity for almost 9 straight months. Much of it in a caloric deficit. Now you can do much more volume on a bike than you ever could running, but it's still a long, hard training block. Going to try to maintain some fitness till September when YPang comes out here, but after that I'm taking a good 2-3 weeks totally off.
After that, I'll probably try to do a short winter training cycle for running with some tempo maintenance on the bike. How committed I am to that depends on if I am able to build the mileage back up to a decent level in short order without injury problems. I went from 0 to 70mpw in 2011 in three months problem free, but the last time or two I built up I kept getting nagging soreness either in the calf or the foot.
Big goals for 2016 are going to be Tour of the Gila (biggest amateur race in the country) in late April, and then again Pikes Peak in August.
On August 17 2015 03:51 Bonham wrote:
As for my own running, I'm rapidly approaching what I think of as the Time of Judgement, aka fall racing season. The Edmonton half goes down a week from today, and then the Kelowna full meal deal on Thanksgiving (that's October 12 to you American philistines out there.) I'm shooting for a 1:11 next weekend and dreaming about a 2:30 in Kelowna.
I think 1:11 is a pretty realistic goal. My PB right now, set in May, is 1:12:58, but that was on a harder course than I’ll run in Edmonton, the last half was a solo time-trial, and, most important, I’ve put in a bunch of good training since then. Been running lots of tempos in the 3:20-3:25 min/km range, which is around where I need to be. I’ll also have the benefit of a good group to work with. Two other guys I train with will be trying to run that time, so if all goes well we’ll have some competitive juices pushing us faster.
Nice stuff. 1:11. Shit. That's getting well into fantasyland territory for me. Hopefully running will go better at a lighter weight but the thought of stringing together 5:20's is pretty hard to fathom. Glad to hear you're on track for a good race, at that level knocking off a few minutes each cycle is doing pretty damn well.
On August 17 2015 03:51 Bonham wrote:
The only real drawback of Sin 7 was the small detail that the racing is absolutely terrible and agonizing and I hate it. My leg started with a preposterous climb straight up a ski hill and got worse from there. There was none of the sense of speed or grace or determination that I like in a road race. It was just pure suffering from start to finish.
This is probably why I don't like running up hills that much. It just feels sluggish for the same effort. For running that feeling of stretching out and flying is so much more enjoyable than grinding it out suffering to barely be moving 10:00 pace.
Sounds like a nice performance and good general experience though. Way to take down Mr. Cocky!
On August 19 2015 02:03 mtmentat wrote:
Personally, I fell off the consistent effort wagon after Dirty 30 (50k). Apparently, it hasn't hurt me too much, since I've still been able to race "ok" since then:
*Mount Evans Ascent: really good race for me, ran it smart and consistent effort at 10k-14k elevation. Very good PB, but still really far out of the age group awards. I am getting hungry for an ice cream bowl next year...
*Power of 4 25k was ridiculous, top three spots (which I had hoped to snipe) were filled by legit pro and semi-pro trail runners. For a dinky 25k! All and all, it was a beautiful course and great day: foggy, light drizzle, cool with only a little bit too much mud. The friend I was hoping to run it with and/or was worried would beat me had a much harder day than I expected he would - hope he gets if figured out (stomach or competitiveness issues) so that we can race together in future.
*Most recently I did very well at the 50th Annual La Luz Trail Run!! After a previous discussion here about whether or not my goal of top 10 was an appropriate/good idea I was definitely supercharged to make it into this top bracket. Started a bit quick with a race bandit named Solomon, a marathoner I think of African extraction. Really smart racer, makes it look easy. He and one other guy and I packed it up for much of the trail climbing, but I had to let them go after about mile 5 for fear of bonking too hard later. I knew I was in 6/7th place, just held on an ran my own race after that. 6th overall, and 1st in the 25-29 male age group. Not just a dramatic improvement in overall placing, but about a 5 minute PB on the course, which was gratifying.
Looks like every race was pretty good for you with PRs across the board. Nice work. Getting into top 3 is always hard at these competitive races, there are a ton of super legit runners, especially mountain guys, here in CO.
Good luck with Peach 5k, and with M training. Any goal time in mind?
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Fall is the best! It's totally beautiful and finally consistently cool enough to run fast.
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There's a rumour going around that Reid Coolsaet, Rob Watson, and Eric Gillis–aka three of the four fastest marathoners in Canada–are running the Edmonton half on Sunday! Top 10 might be out of reach for puds like me, but it will be sweet to line up next to former Olympians.
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On August 20 2015 11:27 Bonham wrote:
There's a rumour going around that Reid Coolsaet, Rob Watson, and Eric Gillis–aka three of the four fastest marathoners in Canada–are running the Edmonton half on Sunday! Top 10 might be out of reach for puds like me, but it will be sweet to line up next to former Olympians.
Heck yes it is! Have a great race.
On August 20 2015 07:58 Bonham wrote:
Fall is the best! It's totally beautiful and finally consistently cool enough to run fast.
It also means the epic bullshit of winter is not too far off. TT
And I'm just terribly hot weather biased. I prefer 90-100F during the day for normal activities. Running/cycling I like a little cooler, but 80s is fine, and you can always go earlier or later and get 60s. When you start to get to days with highs in the 60s then that means 90% of the day is deep into the 50s or colder....aka miserable cold.
If I lived in Tuscon or something and what most of us consider fal" was the depths of winter, I'd probably really enjoy it. All I can think about with fall here in CO is crappy mornings where it's in the 40s or colder and the looming inevitability of winter.
Can you tell I really dislike cold weather? 
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Mmmmm, I know that CO might *seem* cold to you, L_Master, but where Bonham and I are coming from (Canada, and damn near Canada) has ACTUAL winter.  Like step outside your door and instafreeze your snot winters. Fall is but a prelude to cold, cold winter running and something to be appreciated!
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Zurich15317 Posts
First time in my life running 5k I believe and probably the first serious run post injury 2 years ago. 24:45, feeling good about it. Definitely room to improve there but not sure if I can push it under 20:00 any time soon.
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There is this route in my hometown I used to run as a teenager. It is a little longer than 7km constantly uphill/downhill with several nasty hills with Up to 10% incline. When I was in my best Shape back then it took me 40 minutes. I tried to beat that Time several times whenever I was in decent shape but never managed to do it.
Today I finished that route in 37:00. Clearly a new day in my training has arrived. Just let me stay healthy, please.
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Hey Malinor glad to see that you are doing fine. Missed you in the H&F thread. Glhf.
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Alright guyz, haven't posted much about running lately, so here goes.
I'm currently focusing on a 5k road race coming up in a week. I've worked my 5k PB down to 20:58 (recorded during a time trial on a track 2 weeks ago) from 22:25 nearly 3 months ago. I think I have a great shot at making 20:45 at the race.
Thing is, I just fully recovered from a bad bout of stomach flu and fever over the past 4 days or so, and am looking to ease back into easy runs for the next few days. Planning to do some tempo runs before the race, but to be honest, I'm not even sure what shape I'm in post illness. Have any of u guys raced shortly after recovering and can I find out how well you did?
Btw, can I also ask any of u guys who had managed to break 20 mins for the 5K - how long did you take to progress from 21 mins to 20 mins or even sub-19 or 18? Idk but doing 96 second laps for 12.5 laps just feels impossibrruuu at the moment and it just seems so damm hard! Just before I got sick I was doing 4x1200m intervals @ 95s per lap and 3:30 rest in between and I was completely spent at the end of it, as if I'd just ran a race. I barely managed to hit all the splits and down to the last set my mind was like "fuck this shit" but I somehow managed to dig deep and push through.
P.S. I'm just turned 24, my height is 161cm and weigh 54kg for those who wanna know.
Cheers and thanks in advance for any advice
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On August 23 2015 00:36 Clazziquai10 wrote:Alright guyz, haven't posted much about running lately, so here goes. I'm currently focusing on a 5k road race coming up in a week. I've worked my 5k PB down to 20:58 (recorded during a time trial on a track 2 weeks ago) from 22:25 nearly 3 months ago. I think I have a great shot at making 20:45 at the race. Thing is, I just fully recovered from a bad bout of stomach flu and fever over the past 4 days or so, and am looking to ease back into easy runs for the next few days. Planning to do some tempo runs before the race, but to be honest, I'm not even sure what shape I'm in post illness. Have any of u guys raced shortly after recovering and can I find out how well you did? Btw, can I also ask any of u guys who had managed to break 20 mins for the 5K - how long did you take to progress from 21 mins to 20 mins or even sub-19 or 18? Idk but doing 96 second laps for 12.5 laps just feels impossibrruuu at the moment and it just seems so damm hard! Just before I got sick I was doing 4x1200m intervals @ 95s per lap and 3:30 rest in between and I was completely spent at the end of it, as if I'd just ran a race. I barely managed to hit all the splits and down to the last set my mind was like "fuck this shit" but I somehow managed to dig deep and push through. P.S. I'm just turned 24, my height is 161cm and weigh 54kg for those who wanna know. Cheers and thanks in advance for any advice
Hey, congrats on the PB! Looks like you're in the middle of making some tremendous progress.
I've never raced a 5k on a track, but I ran 16:09 in a road time trial and usually hit 16-mid in the odd 5k I jump into. (Marathons and half-marathons are where it's at, btw.) I don't have any distinctive memories of the first time I broke 20 or what I did to get there, but your question reminds me of a mindset people sometimes have when they first get into running: very ambitious expectations about their rate of improvement.
Taking almost two minutes off your 5k PB is a really big chunk. Doing it inside of three months is phenomenal. If you keep training, sub-20 will come eventually. The rule of thumb I've heard is that most people have at least 10 years of gains ahead of them when they start running.
Also, getting faster is not always uniform–you might train and train for months and see no improvement, and then one week notice you're way faster than you used to be. It's important to remind yourself that hard work always pays dividends eventually.
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On August 21 2015 02:39 zatic wrote:
First time in my life running 5k I believe and probably the first serious run post injury 2 years ago. 24:45, feeling good about it. Definitely room to improve there but not sure if I can push it under 20:00 any time soon.
Nice run! That's a fine starting point, don't know your training and racing background but obviously there is plenty of low hanging fruit around for getting quicker. 19:xx would probably be a big reach this year, but you know your training much better than I.
On August 22 2015 21:30 Malinor wrote:
There is this route in my hometown I used to run as a teenager. It is a little longer than 7km constantly uphill/downhill with several nasty hills with Up to 10% incline. When I was in my best Shape back then it took me 40 minutes. I tried to beat that Time several times whenever I was in decent shape but never managed to do it.
Today I finished that route in 37:00. Clearly a new day in my training has arrived. Just let me stay healthy, please.
That's awesome! Smashed that old time by a huge margin, and yea it's really fun when you go back to old places and can tear up former stomping grounds
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On August 23 2015 00:36 Clazziquai10 wrote:Alright guyz, haven't posted much about running lately, so here goes. I'm currently focusing on a 5k road race coming up in a week. I've worked my 5k PB down to 20:58 (recorded during a time trial on a track 2 weeks ago) from 22:25 nearly 3 months ago. I think I have a great shot at making 20:45 at the race. Thing is, I just fully recovered from a bad bout of stomach flu and fever over the past 4 days or so, and am looking to ease back into easy runs for the next few days. Planning to do some tempo runs before the race, but to be honest, I'm not even sure what shape I'm in post illness. Have any of u guys raced shortly after recovering and can I find out how well you did? Btw, can I also ask any of u guys who had managed to break 20 mins for the 5K - how long did you take to progress from 21 mins to 20 mins or even sub-19 or 18? Idk but doing 96 second laps for 12.5 laps just feels impossibrruuu at the moment and it just seems so damm hard! Just before I got sick I was doing 4x1200m intervals @ 95s per lap and 3:30 rest in between and I was completely spent at the end of it, as if I'd just ran a race. I barely managed to hit all the splits and down to the last set my mind was like "fuck this shit" but I somehow managed to dig deep and push through. P.S. I'm just turned 24, my height is 161cm and weigh 54kg for those who wanna know. Cheers and thanks in advance for any advice
Illness - It really varies from person to person. Some take bigger hits to fitness from illness than others. If you were good and sick, not able to do much and throwing up a bunch or running a good fever...I wouldn't expect a particularly good race. Usually if I get a nasty multi-day bug it takes a week or two to feel back up to where I was
My sub 20 anecdote - I'm one of those "phenomenal" people Bonham mentioned. I went from 24 5k to 18:20 in about 6 months.
I dabbled in running senior year of HS and first year of college. Maybe 15-50 kpw of just easy runs. Think I ran 21:xx once. Then I get back to being lazy and was more or less sedentary for the next two years. Starting back up again from more or less scratch I got serious. Started off in about 24:00 shape in April 11', went from 0-40mpw immediately, and then from April to June I built up to 115 kpw. Ran 18:52 and 19:04 in July, both on very short courses. Both races were about 6:30 pace, or 20:15 5k range. Added in some speedwork over Aug/Sep, but didn't race again until early October where I ran 18:21.
So for me it was about 6 months from out of shape to 18:20, and probably about 4 months to sub 20. After that 18:20 I fell into a trap of basically just doing 100 kpw with a weekly tempo for the next 9 months and didn't really improve much after that, I suspect because I didn't really give my body any new training stimulus. I allegedly ran 17:51 about 9 months after that 18:21, but I've come to believe that was also a significantly short course, as around that I'd only ever run 18 highs/19 lows. Nov of 2012 I got a groin pull that through various circumstances and my own mistakes kept me from running for the next 20 months or so. Been doing mostly cycling since my return in mid 2014.
Training Thoughts - Your weight is not a significant hindrance at all, and without knowing your BF% you might already be incredibly lean. General rule of thumb for elites is BMI around 20, which you're not far from.
If you're in 21:00 shape, then yes 96s/lap should feel pretty tough. That's 12 s/km, which is a BIG difference. Your training might close that gap quickly, but I know as a 18:20 guy trying to run 3:30/km pace would certainly seem impossible. I could probably go 800m at that pace and feel tolerable, but after 1500m I would be hurting badly.
Without knowing your training history it's hard to say, but if you have a good mix of general mileage, threshold runs, and your track work you'll no doubt find 95s laps becoming easier. Bonham does make a very good point about improvement, don't get discouraged if every race isn't faster, or every workout isn't better. You really can go a month not feeling like you're getting anywhere and then suddenly over the next week find you're running 10 s/km faster.
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Edmonton half in 1:13. Legs just didn't have it today. I'm feeling disappointed. Will write more when I have time; maybe this afternoon.
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Certainly not in the same class as Bonham here, but I did the Edmonton half in 1:59, which made my goal of sub 2 I have been chasing for 3 years. Injury free for once, made a difference i'm sure.
First half was 54 min, second half was awful - but hey, made my goal!
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On August 24 2015 05:13 LagLovah wrote:
Certainly not in the same class as Bonham here, but I did the Edmonton half in 1:59, which made my goal of sub 2 I have been chasing for 3 years. Injury free for once, made a difference i'm sure.
First half was 54 min, second half was awful - but hey, made my goal!
Good job! If you ran the first half a couple minutes slower, you probably would have finished even faster. I make that same mistake all the time in my long races...good pacing is a skill in itself.
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Starting to think I might just not be great at distance running haha. I can run a 46ish 10k but breaking 2 hours in the half has been a nightmare.
Pacing probably could have been better, I definitely felt it around the 15k mark, not tired, just muscle fatigue. Anyhow, have a tough mudder in 2 weeks then another half in 2 more weeks, will see if I can't improve upon that time a bit!
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EPT
