Running/Cycling Thread - 2015 Edition - Page 12

On May 11 2015 15:39 L_Master wrote:
Geb Calls it a Career

What's significant for me is the fact that Geb is the true, undisputed GOAT lover of running.

On May 11 2015 04:59 Don_Julio wrote:

Did you increase distance or pace recently? What shoes did you wear before?

On May 12 2015 14:00 Bonham wrote:


Well said. Kenny B is still the greatest ever, but Geb is a very close second. And in love of running he is, without doubt, number one.

I'm going to get some Ethiopian takeout in his honor.

On May 13 2015 18:12 Meat wrote:

I went for a 15km run yesterday and it went much better. Pretty sure the problem was that I changed to a heel landing in these new shoes, so I'm going for more of a mid foot landing now.

On May 16 2015 07:23 Bonham wrote:
Convicted doper Gatlin runs 9.77 for 100m, a PB, to start the season. He is 33 years old.

On a related note, I just finished reading Wheelmen, a great look at Armstrong and how he managed to dope for so long. (Spoiler: his winning made lots of people, not just him, lots of money. The fact that he's a total sociopath also helped.)

On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote:
Hey guys, I feel like I'm being stupid and seeing as you have helped me out before, I was hoping you could help again.

Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points)

Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada).

I was trying to determine my VDOT for current training for a half marathon in the fall. A month or more ago I was able to run a mile in 6 minutes on the treadmill, which gave me a VDOT of about 48.4 according to Jack Daniels' VDOT calculator (linked here: https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/ )

2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday. On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles, I ended up doing 6.25 miles in total for the night run. I calculated the VDOT for the 3.5 miles at 7:03 and it came out to 45.1.

Feeling dejected today I decided to run outside again and ran 5 miles in 41 min. It began to feel like I was punishing myself now....I rode my bike for 15 minutes to my parents house and a couple hours later, stopped at a track on my way back, belly full of food and ran 800m in 2:56.VDOT of 46.3 - better but I wanted 48 so badly like I had a couple months ago.

It was basically the binge eating equivalent in exercising....I want to keep trying for some elusive number. I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half. Seems dumb because even a VDOT of 45 sets me up for a PB of 1:40.

Have you guys been in this situation before? I am soon entering the second phase of training and wanted to see what you guys thought....I was so dejected that even after 2 weeks of major taper I wasn't any faster. My legs were sore from swimming the day before I returned home...but ARGHHHHHH.

I love the science behind running which is probably why I get hung up on those VDOT numbers. I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.This is starting to sound like a whine blog but I am afraid I am going to push myself to far and end up getting injured by doing stupid training.

I'll just stop and see if you guys have any words of wisdom.

/end whine

On May 17 2015 17:13 Don_Julio wrote:

Yeah you get way too hung up in VDOT numbers.

1. A two week long complete break from running isn't a good taper.
2. A time trial will almost always be slower than an actual race.
3. Multiple hard efforts in succesion will put a strain on you and you'll never reach your actual potential.
4. Don't bother with shorter distances than 10k to get a guess on your HM potential.

When is the half you want to run. Do you have time to get a 6-8 week training cycle for a 10k in right now? If not start your training plan and target a pace you'd be happy with. Make sure to run a test race a few weeks before the half. I think a 1:30 half would be impossible to achieve coming from a 45:10 10k. 1:30 is fucking fast in my book.

How did you 40 mile weeks look like btw?

On May 17 2015 08:51 Alcathous wrote:
Well they are all on dope. Donno why to boo some, but not others. Just because they got unlucky/bad at beating the IQ test?

On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote:

Some background: Last year I ran a half marathon in the spring in just under 1:45. then in October I ran a 10K in 45:10 (a jump in VDOT of about 3 points)

Christmas I began training in earnest again and 2 weeks ago was up to running 40-45 miles per week (mostly treadmill as it was still winter in Canada).

On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote:
I don't even want to sign up for the race in the fall now, seeing as I won't be able to break 1:30 for the half.

On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote:
2 weeks ago, I went on vacation to Hawaii and didn't do much running, mostly hiking and walking on beaches. I got back on Wednesday.

On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote:
On Friday I tried running outside for 10 miles and ended up stopping after 4 due to heat. Later that night I ran inside on the treadmill at a 7 min/mile clip to see how long I could run for and ended up doing 3.5 miles

On May 17 2015 08:33 WoolySheep wrote:
I also feel like I am focusing too much on the numbers because now I can't seem to come close to that number, even after having increased my mileage.

On May 18 2015 00:49 L_Master wrote:
In summary: You're in a good spot laying down some nice base with fitness coming along well. Just keep training, start getting some workouts in there, and focus on 1:35 as a goal time for your half marathon. You'll be running very strong by fall.

On May 19 2015 04:21 GrandInquisitor wrote:
A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.

So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.

The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.

I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily.

On May 18 2015 15:07 L_Master wrote:
Successful day, finally got to run with sir mtmentat today. Did a fairly mountainous loop called Section 16. He dropped me hard on the steep stuff (about a mile of very rocky 20% grade), and then we had some fun flying down the nice descent. Cool guy.

Next up on the meet list: YPang.

On May 19 2015 05:04 Don_Julio wrote:




I'm jelly. Section 16 is a shitty name for a trail though.

On May 19 2015 04:21 GrandInquisitor wrote:
A few pages ago you all gave me some advice re: my desire to do a 2 hour half marathon. Your words helped with my training, and I was able to do 4mile + 10mile runs at the McMillan goal paces.

So this past Saturday was the half marathon. It was a wet and muggy day, but I ran 12.2 miles slightly faster my goal pace (I think I hit the 12 mile marker at around 1:50:xx). I felt great -- I mean, I wasn't running easy at that point, but come on, I'm not supposed to be "running easy" 90% of the way through a half marathon, right? I felt like I always do at the end of a race.

The next thing I remember, I was in an ambulance with vomit all over me. Ended up staying in the ER for 7 hours or so, presumably due to dehydration/exhaustion even though I had drank at every water station along the way.

I don't think there's any long-term injuries or anything like that, but it's definitely taken a psychological toll. The race was tough but it did not really seem that much tougher than the end of any other race. I guess I had always thought that if you were pushing your body to the breaking point, there'd be some sign, or you'd feel different than you usually did. On Saturday I felt like I was running easy for 7 miles, then running a bit labored for the next 3 miles, and then somewhat more labored after that (i.e., checking watch and going "omg it's only been .1 miles?"), but I never thought it would have made me DNF involuntarily.

On May 19 2015 05:41 L_Master wrote:


I'm a little unclear on whether you passed out or not. It would be nice to know medically what they said happened, while it's unlikely it's something serious, having that happen is absolutely something you should take seriously. People generally don't pass out during races, and when it does it can be related to potential heart or other health issues. This probably isn't the case, but it's something I would highly encourage you not to ignore if they didn't already give you some solid medical answers.

Without that being the issue, the next question I would have is how hot was it? If it was humid and up 70+, that may have played a role. From what you described, I'm rather doubting dehydration. You can do 2 hours of training pretty easily with no water at all, and if you came in reasonably hydrated and took on fluids I expect you were fine on that end. It's possible you went the other way and actually had to much water....which can cause its own set of trouble.

Bottom line is I don't have a good answer for you. Since you said you were feeling good with only a mile to go, I sincerely doubt it was anything related to dehydration or exhaustion. Even ignoring the fact that you took on fluids, if you are getting so dehydrated you pass out...you're going to be feeling like complete shit and your performance suffering massively.

On May 19 2015 06:09 GrandInquisitor wrote:
To be clear -- when I say I felt good, I didn't want to suggest that I could run for another few hours or so. I was definitely feeling it. I'd check my watch -- "11.1 miles" -- run for what felt like a while -- then check my watch again -- "11.2 miles" -- "GODDAMN IT". I don't think I could have held a cogent conversation (maybe I could grunt words at you though). But at no point did I think to myself, "Holy shit, I feel really bad, worse than I've ever felt during running, I need to stop." In fact I vividly remember thinking that I could/should slow down and still make my goal since I had hit mile 12 ahead of schedule. My HR (according to my watch at least) had started off in the 180s for the first 4 miles but settled into the 160s after that.

On May 19 2015 06:09 GrandInquisitor wrote:

What do you mean precisely by "passed out"? I certainly do not remember falling down, or being taken care of while on the ground. In particular, I hit my face on the ground without using my hands to block my fall, so from that I assume I passed out.

On May 17 2015 20:37 WoolySheep wrote:


1. I know it wasn't a good taper, but I didn't really have a choice and I thought I'd at least be a little fresher.
2. noted.
3. Yeah, I was dumb, just chasing numbers.
4. noted.

The half I want to run is Sept. 11/12. I was following a half marathon training plan by Jack Daniels' in his Running Formula book. Phase 2 starts to include some 200 repeats and a threshold run each week. My 40 mile weeks have been essentially easy runs with one run being about 10-13M.

Would inserting a 6-8 week 10K plan mess up my training schedule? It would essentially replace my phase 2? Do you know of any good ones, or should I look online for some?

Thanks for your help!