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On April 17 2015 07:53 Trfel wrote:
Hi jarjarbinks,
I see it. I'm working on a post on Tubesock, because I need to go soon, and I'd like to get it out before I leave if possible (not sure I can, though). I'll take a look at your analysis after.
One thing I notice is that for your survival, you kind of need to call prplhz and Tubesock both scum. I'm assuming Bourneq is the final scum?
The Night 2 kill, again, that would have been Half the Sky regardless of whether or not her reads were good. I don't think the night kill itself implicates prplhz here (though it does suggest that it might be a good idea to borrow Half the Sky's read).
I could certainly see the scum team being prplhz, Tubesock, and Bourneq.
Bourneq makes the most sense as a third. Mostly POE though. Prp slight pushed him day 1 and day 2 (mostly with just his vote D2) but didn't really make an effort to get real support imo. Hard to see Rso being the third here, unless they planned on being at each others throats. Can't see you as scum.
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Read the bolded and the only nested quote that is really relevant to my point is the first one.
On April 17 2015 05:30 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2015 03:43 Tubesock wrote:On April 17 2015 03:34 Trfel wrote:
Just read over the first page of Tubesock's filter. He actually could be scum here.
His early posts seem to be more white knighting, and he's providing fewer useful scumreads than I expected. Perhaps it's just confirmation bias, though.
When I get out of class, I'll take a look at the rest of it. How much thought have you put into me before this post? Only what I collected on you in my four catch-up posts, and what came up in discussion.Show nested quote +On April 17 2015 03:37 prplhz wrote:On April 17 2015 03:34 Trfel wrote:
Just read over the first page of Tubesock's filter. He actually could be scum here.
His early posts seem to be more white knighting, and he's providing fewer useful scumreads than I expected. Perhaps it's just confirmation bias, though.
When I get out of class, I'll take a look at the rest of it. why do you make a giant post saying you'll look over me and rso and then you go and look over tube? I had five minutes. You and prplhz are bigger tasks. I posted what I did because I wanted to see what people said, and in hopes that others would look into the things that I mentioned.
On April 16 2015 07:07 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2015 07:04 prplhz wrote:
i can't. rso is scum because she's really good at mafia but she only done mafia things and she's notting putting in that effort she does as town. especially letting two townies getting lynched while acting like she hadn't a clue what a tone read is. anyway i suggest we don't no lynch today, me or rso go go go. i'll tell you the other two scum before i die but i'm a little less sure of them.
shoutout to onegu for getting this right on d1. I don't know, to be honest I've sort of been assuming that rsoultin is town all game long. The reason being that it would take a lot of time and effort to try and lynch rsoultin, and I feel that her being mafia isn't terribly likely. And I'd only lynch her if I could be darn sure that I'm right. Basically, I'm just putting it off. I'm a procrastinator. I agree with you that rsoultin is capable of playing at a noticeably higher level than this. But I'm not convinced that this makes her scum.
On April 17 2015 03:02 Trfel wrote:
Tubesock....
Sorry, but I can't lynch an non-cc'd blue. Breshke is absolutely town unless someone counterclaims. Everything else simply doesn't matter.
So, Trfel accuses me of being lazy. Yet, only just now got to my filter. He's procrastinating on Rsoultin even though "she is capable of playing at a noticeably higher level". He's digging into me because my scumread quote ratio is too low. He also won't entertain at all the possibility that Breshke is faking again. He is making excuses not to scumhunt.
Reread his Day 3 beginning actions. He's acting. He isn't talking about scumhunting. He's wanting to talk about how we should no lynch/lynch, if the blues should claim. Let the fucking blues decide. Where does he do any scumhunting? Oh after I put his name in red on my vote post. I'll get to his rebuttal in a few minutes.
He's arguing that both him and Breshke are town. I'm mafia. He's saying that first time ever mafia!Tubesock would see 2 towns doing weird claiming/role/lynch speculation and not let them go for it. He's saying that I would go in there and effectively stop the conversation and steer it back to scumhunting. To make people reconsider the game. To make town look at myself, and he's also saying I would take one of the biggest townreads in the game. That I would go against someone who has a good reputation for case building. That I'm telling town to THINK.
Why would I EVER want to lead town to a scumhunting centric position if I were mafia? I stopped Breshke from continuing focus on his play. I refocused town. Yeah. Really scummy there. You think I'm going to let Trfel derail this by talking about if Breshke is vet or not? No, we are going to talk about scum motivations.
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On April 17 2015 09:40 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2015 09:16 prplhz wrote:On April 17 2015 07:09 Breshke wrote:On April 17 2015 02:10 prplhz wrote:
@trfel
FACT: i was the main opposition to the plot lynch.
FACT: i was the main opposition to the dwarf lynch.
FACT: if your scum team has me and bourneq i have been pushing my newbie teammate all game long from his very first post.
FACT: these are objectively the towniest things anybody in this thread have done. and they're all me. breshke has come close with some of his analysis.
FACT: if you mislynch me here that's NOT GOING TO BE NOMINATED FOR A MAFIA AWARD Prp what analysis of mine have you liked? mostly the setup analysis Why is that townie. Couldn't I do it as scum for towncred/looking for reactions as id know the setup?
that's possible but unlike tube i don't scumread people for doing things scum possibly could have done. it was correct and good analysis so townpiled.
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I didn't spoonfeed the analysis because I want to see who actually reads it and thinks about it.
I'm hoping someone comes to me and asks "what did you mean about this paragraph" etc. Then I'll explain it.
You guys are playing to whomever is the best arguer. Not doing independent research.
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For town I'm going to respond to Trfel's biggish post on me then I'll get to Breshke's.
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alright, couple of notes...cause lol we're talking about some of this anyway xP
bourne and tube could pretty much literally be scum with anyone based on voting analysis alone...both had pretty static votes day 1 and day 2 (supremely sure you could argue, but i'll get to that later in my bigger post lol ><), and of course we now know that all the wagons (excluding the rogue onegu vote on bresh) were town there
players who probably aren't scum together by degrees of certainty:
Breshke & prplhz
JJB & prplhz
Breshke & truffle - if i'm wrong on anything it's this
no, prp and bourne did not make the list lol >< for exactly the reason JJB just mentioned above, but also because Bourne has similarly been scumreading prp all game without voting him at all...it is a remarkably unproductive mutual scumread that neither has pursued in any meaningful way
additionally. if truffle is scum this game he is almost certainly scum with prplhz for the day 2 voting lol ><
sorry i know i'm taking a long time :/
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EBWOP:
today being the obvious exception, regarding bourne voting prp :/
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you know i should read my post before i post it? all the wagons on day 1 were town lol ><
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On April 17 2015 05:51 Trfel wrote:
There are two points here. The first point you make is that I went back and forth between lynching and no-lynching.
I've already explained that there is value in no-lynching, because we get time to investigate things and make the best decision. However, there is no value in no-lynching if people want to lynch, or if people don't want to use the extra time to actually work. If you took a closer look at your scumread of me, you would notice that I have said this multiple times, and rsoultin (who you are townreading) has expressed the same sentiments. Furthermore, if you look at my past games, you will see that when I (and the rest of town) is feeling tired and in a bad spot in the game, I'm willing to take a riskier lynch to speed things along (see Down Under 2, where I lynched someone who might be scum over someone who was guaranteed to be scum under the assumption that town wouldn't care enough to investigate properly such that the additional time would make a difference).
- Trfel talks about non scumhunting topics (lynch, claims) avoiding scumhunting.
- Compare with Prphlz who goes straight to let's lynch Rsoultin. Straight to scumhunting and pushing a lynch.
Second point, the entire mafia team worked on the analysis that I did. This I find rather interesting.
Realize that I pointed out to everyone that mafia could work together to feed people analysis/reads. Yet you don't mention at all that it was me who first suggested this.
Realize that my posting style is rather unique. I use capitalization, periods, and tend to be semi-formal at all times. I would definitely have to retype and revisit everything that people would tell me to say. It's possible that mafia guided me in the general reads that I should arrive at, but I definitely did the majority of the work myself.
You conclude by arguing that I am scum because I want to lynch today. You realize that my vote is currently on no-lynch?
- It doesn't matter if you were first to post this. You used it in the context of casing The Shining. It took Stutters695 to point out my post to me to think about. The point is that you are being townread for the effort and people are not necessarily considering other things you may have done. It should not be a pass in the same manner that my TBD case shouldn't pass me.
Basically, you haven't presented any reasons why I am scum. You presented a ton of fluff, a ton of clear misinterpretations. You presented a few arguments on Onegu (maybe they have some validity, but I don't care). And you've claimed that I could do everything I have done as scum. But you haven't shown anything whatsoever that actually suggests that I am scum from my own play.
- I want people to rethink you. To revisit. We have to evaluate your slot. I think it's bad play to not.
- I think you have benefited the most from the deaths. I think they were your biggest threats.
To everyone else: I think that Tubesock is better than this. Look at the length of his post and compare it to the amount of substance. Contrast this with his earlier theory on TheBloodyDwarf. Tubesock here is feeling more lazy, and less interested, where Tubesock would be extremely motivated due to having caught the scum team and needing to make everyone else see his point. I wonder if Tubesock is mafia and making a token effort on a read he knows isn't true, and is less motivated because he knows that he is in trouble.
[list][*][B] Town will evalutate if I'm motivated or not. Are you motivated? How's that Prplhz, Rsoultin cases coming along?
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On April 17 2015 09:47 Tubesock wrote:
I didn't spoonfeed the analysis because I want to see who actually reads it and thinks about it.
I'm hoping someone comes to me and asks "what did you mean about this paragraph" etc. Then I'll explain it.
You guys are playing to whomever is the best arguer. Not doing independent research.
Is it really the time for this? You want to be convincing people that your very different point of view is the right one. This simply isnt true. You have no faith in your arguments so you dont try and push them instead you pose them as questions so when you are wrong it doesn't come back to look bad on you. You don't draw conclusions on the things you bring up because you say you need to see people ask questions about it when no instead you need to be showing proper analysis to PROVE someone is mafia and to help see people if you are town but no you are not town you are scum.
Also rso do you agree that if me and truffle were scum together e would have just claimed vigi and we probably could have just won. I assume thats why you think we couldnt be together.
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On April 17 2015 10:32 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2015 09:47 Tubesock wrote:
I didn't spoonfeed the analysis because I want to see who actually reads it and thinks about it.
I'm hoping someone comes to me and asks "what did you mean about this paragraph" etc. Then I'll explain it.
You guys are playing to whomever is the best arguer. Not doing independent research. Is it really the time for this? You want to be convincing people that your very different point of view is the right one. This simply isnt true. You have no faith in your arguments so you dont try and push them instead you pose them as questions so when you are wrong it doesn't come back to look bad on you. You don't draw conclusions on the things you bring up because you say you need to see people ask questions about it when no instead you need to be showing proper analysis to PROVE someone is mafia and to help see people if you are town but no you are not town you are scum. Also rso do you agree that if me and truffle were scum together e would have just claimed vigi and we probably could have just won. I assume thats why you think we couldnt be together.
also you're confirmed town
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i mean it's sort of easy to say "this uncc'd blue probably isn't scum with X"
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On April 17 2015 09:39 Breshke wrote:
Within the spoiler are times before this phase where tube gives a read on me. They are all town but that is not necessarily important. Look at the logic. Look at his reasons for the read. In every case it shows logic which you i think most people would agree with or at least come to an understanding of how he could see it that way. He also makes clear conclusions from every point he brings up.
So, uh this is scummy?
Moving onto this phase we have this post. + Show Spoiler [Vote Analysis Post] +On April 16 2015 18:01 Tubesock wrote:I think I know what's going on. While I think I'm right, I will acknowledge I was wrong on TheBloodyDwarf. I don't always get all the scum, but I at least get two. Anyway, what I'm thinking. Soren333 was widely towned. Others too probably but I think he was the most towned. In his filter he scummed TheBloodyDwarf, Onegu, Prplhz, Slotspot, and Bourneq. Holyflare subs in. So, doubly obvious night kill. Half the Sky was also widely towned. Trfel and many others of you already agreed she was the obvious night kill. What were her big things? Big case on Onegu. Who was under suspicion? Breshke. Who was scumread? Bourneq. Plotspot. Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 06:01 LoneMeow wrote:
plotspot the Vanilla Townie is lynched!
Final vote count:
TheBloodyDwarf (1): Soren333, Breshke, Tubesock, The Shining, Tubesock
Breshke (0): Onegu
The Shining (1): plotspot
Bourneq (0): prplhz
plotspot (7): Onegu, Breshke, rsoultin, prplhz, Bourneq, Soren333, Stutters695, jarjarbinks, Half the Sky, Onegu
prplhz (0): TheBloodyDwarf
Stutters695 (4): prplhz, Tubesock, TheBloodyDwarf, Half the Sky
Here's Half the Sky's assessment of Onegu's vote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=61#1220 I also think that Onegu's vote on Breshke was a joke. He didn't say hardly anything about it (typical Onegu behavior though) and then came in calling us idiots for not being on the "scumclaim". I asked him where his vote was and then "oh "forgot" ##Vote:  lotspot. I think he was obviously looking to change his vote, that vote wasn't serious at all. Patterns.... TheBloodyDwarf Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 06:01 LoneMeow wrote:
TheBloodyDwarf the Vanilla Townie is lynched!
Final vote count:
TheBloodyDwarf (5): Bourneq, The Shining, Tubesock, rsoultin, Trfel
Breshke (0): rsoultin
The Shining (1): Breshke , rsoultin, Trfel , TheBloodyDwarf
Bourneq (1): prplhz
Half the Sky (0): prplhz, rsoultin, Tubesock
prplhz (4): Stutters695, jarjarbinks, Half the Sky, Breshke
Stutters695 (0): Breshke
Stutters695 while vigi shot, there is still information. It's not as solid or anything, but things of note. He scummed Breshke. Trfel also said Stuters695 was on his most suspicious list before Stutters died. Breshke last words about Stutters while alive were "I can't vote him now but I hope I don't regret it." then votes The Shining. I'll have individual cases on the three as well tomorrow. We have time to talk about it. First reason for cumming me in this post is that HTS had me in her suspicious section. + Show Spoiler +Under review:
Breshke - D1 activity okay, D2 activity illogical, need to check town meta
Tubesock - Trace all read progression. Did town him for tinfoil/GF theories, but needed to see how he drove the Dwarf lynch. Need to review why he dropped prplhz as a scumread.
Shining - Super low activity from him and Ace. Meta-ed him post-lynch and didn't look good but need to check latest posts. I do not see how he finds this a reason to scum me when he himself and the other UN COUNTER CLAIMED pr are also in this list. This is not a logical conclusion that someone would make.
My points are all an overall picture. I think it's silly to think that you can find scum for 1 or 2 things. I think you and Trfel are the ones who benefits the most from how the night kills were conducted and how the mlynches went down. No one else has those same patterns. I think your play overall is scum motivated or bad. I want people to reconsider you. If others disregard this then that's fine I guess. Me responding to your posts is not for your benefit. I'm not interested in trying to convince you you are mafia or town. There is value in exchanges with you, but the trap is it comes down to who is the best arguer. I want town to read this and at least consider as many things as possible to make a good decision.
Im skipping the joke vote from onegu on me because I doubt that was a joke vote more likely onegu just lost interest and it is so so so unlikely if i was mafia id be mafia with onegu/trefel.
Last in this post he refers to me saying I could not vote stutters yet fails to explain how this would make me scum. He doesn't even draw the conclusion that this would make me scum he simply states that it was something i said. How does this add to his case? Why did he bring it up if he then didn't further refer to it in his later case on me? This obviously was not a very important point to him so why did he point it out.
You spent a lot of time bluehunting him and trying to bait him. I expanded but didn't directly link the two but it's the same point. You feel dirty for not voting Stutters because you were hoping he would out himself as blue. Which you later admitted (hope for out not feel dirty about it). I think the way you went about it is scummy. It's exactly what I put in my Bluehunting section of my case.
1.Tube actually admits in this point that what I did WAS NOT allighnment indicitive. I am an unclaimed PR. This being said if tube is town he must feel really fucking strongly about me being scum. So his first point in a case on me would not end in "yeah he could do this as town or mafia". There is no way. Nor do i think the argument that I just parked my vote on plot is necessarily true.
You being an UnCC'd blue is the ONLY thing I think that you are town for. I'm am not sold on the idea that Vet would 100% would out himself here. I've said this before. I'm not going to argue it. I do believe Shinings claim.[/quote]
2.In this point tube completely ignores my explanation for why I switched my vote from theshining to prp. I am not going to explain it again but once again this is tube ignoring some of my posts so he can once again grasp at things to call me scum with.
I don't believe your explanations. I quoted the post with the most in it about your explanation. I think it was the best representative.
3. No conclusions are made from this point. He asks what scum/town breshke would get from bluehunting yet doesnt answer this question himself. Obviously no one is going to respond to this question so why not explain that he thinks I was obviously bluehunting in the thread on stutters then decided that I would not kill him?
I want town to think about it. I want to see who thinks about it.
On April 14 2015 13:58 Breshke wrote:
Stutters if you had one read you were most sure of who would it be and what do you think their alignment is? I don't need a reason.
He also missed this post which could be seen as the biggest blue hunting post. I knew im the evt so if stutters was a pr he was the cop or vigi and this was me basically trying to get him to soft his checks a obvious as it might've been.
I didn't think this was a bluehunting post. What would that have added to my argument? I already had several examples. How many are enough? 4? 5? 35? The point was made with the posts I used.
4.This point is absolutly wrong and shows he isn't thinking about what he is even writing. The setup could have been cop/vet in which case mafia probably try and roleblock the cop. Also there is still a possibility in vigi/vet that mafia try and claim a roleblock (after they rb the person they kill) for town cred. Tube asks what i get as town from this, it is clear that in one scenario it was that i should be wary of the eprson who claimed rb and in the other that the person who claimed RB is most likely town. It also was a way of letting the other power role know there was a vet.
And I also said this is bullshit. Mafia could as easily RB a town for shits and giggles, or fakeclaim an RB. At best it's WIFOM and distracts town from actually scumhunting. The blues would eventually out themselves when they want to. Not on your timeline.
5. I think I was fairly townie in the first few days (tube apparently also thought this???) so i don't think i can be criticized for not trying that. Also my comment that it would have been better for the shining to shoot me is 100% justified because we then become basically confirmed to eachother and town doesn't go into mylo. He also asks if my actions are from the mindset of a vet yet fails to show anywhere where he thinks im not coming from the mindset of a vet.
You didn't read it very well then. There's a big paragraph about it.
6.The other three mafia wouldnt have exactly caught my play as rso was the only one who pinged out the paragraph where i was trying to make it clear to the vigi not to claim. If it was anyone but shining I think it would have gone better (not because i think he is bad but because he was scum reading me)
I also don't understand how my bluehinting from ebfore ties into that play but w/e.
You can reference it as breadcrumbing.
Anyway this has become really long so tl dr this shows a clear disconnect in tube's reads where he logically calls me town with reasons to where he starts calling me scum for far far weaker reasons which he constantly fails to draw conclusions from. Making a case on someone who is an unclaimed PR probably means one of two things. You feel really strongly that that person is mafia which tube clearly doesn't as a lot of his points end in questions not conclusions or you plan on CC'ing that person which would be absurd at this point
Already addressed.
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On April 17 2015 10:32 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2015 09:47 Tubesock wrote:
I didn't spoonfeed the analysis because I want to see who actually reads it and thinks about it.
I'm hoping someone comes to me and asks "what did you mean about this paragraph" etc. Then I'll explain it.
You guys are playing to whomever is the best arguer. Not doing independent research. Is it really the time for this? You want to be convincing people that your very different point of view is the right one. This simply isnt true. You have no faith in your arguments so you dont try and push them instead you pose them as questions so when you are wrong it doesn't come back to look bad on you. You don't draw conclusions on the things you bring up because you say you need to see people ask questions about it when no instead you need to be showing proper analysis to PROVE someone is mafia and to help see people if you are town but no you are not town you are scum. Also rso do you agree that if me and truffle were scum together e would have just claimed vigi and we probably could have just won. I assume thats why you think we couldnt be together.
oh lol I'm sorry, didn't see your question...
i'm not sure why y'all would have claimed vig together? that's kind of strange lol ><
no, it's based on the onegu afk vote and the fact that y'all were clearly operating at odds Day 2 with prplhz...if prp is town in this situation, no offense to tbd, but lynching prp takes out a more experienced player and pretty much the only one with a townread on dwarf, setting up an easy mislynch the following day, so it's odd y'all would have gone that way if your both scum and he's not lol >< and obviously you trying to hammer prp and trfel saving him makes no sense if all three of you are scum so
it's a little wifomy, which is why it's the least strong, but i think it holds
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On April 17 2015 10:32 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2015 09:47 Tubesock wrote:
I didn't spoonfeed the analysis because I want to see who actually reads it and thinks about it.
I'm hoping someone comes to me and asks "what did you mean about this paragraph" etc. Then I'll explain it.
You guys are playing to whomever is the best arguer. Not doing independent research. Is it really the time for this? You want to be convincing people that your very different point of view is the right one. This simply isnt true. You have no faith in your arguments so you dont try and push them instead you pose them as questions so when you are wrong it doesn't come back to look bad on you. You don't draw conclusions on the things you bring up because you say you need to see people ask questions about it when no instead you need to be showing proper analysis to PROVE someone is mafia and to help see people if you are town but no you are not town you are scum. Also rso do you agree that if me and truffle were scum together e would have just claimed vigi and we probably could have just won. I assume thats why you think we couldnt be together.
I've already addressed why I am not spoonfeeding. Every interaction I'm gaining more information. I can also figure out the intentions of the people reading my posts. You want to nitpick and show that you are not really working at reading my posts or what?
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On April 17 2015 10:41 prplhz wrote:
i mean it's sort of easy to say "this uncc'd blue probably isn't scum with X"
xP cute, prp. read my posts and tell me that i'm not treating breshke's claim with skepticism
note the only name not mentioned there besides my own was shining's...gonna keep sniping cause that's bound to help your case ^^
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Breshke I may have not made it clear. I am not voting you till you are CC'd if it happens. I am however still thinking about you and how you act. We hit mafia today we still have 2 more lynches to get it right.
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This is really really frustrating because you say me claiming vet is the only thing you could read me town for yet you have said a lot of the things i have done all game are town until you flipped on me this phase.
If you want to talk about someone being destructive how is you making a team which involves an un cc'd powerrole in it helpful to town. You arn't even assessing this as an option you are pushing as the world you are living in. Who is scum because im clearly not.
I can't see how you could be town here because yes you should look at all the options but is it really realistic to think im scum here?
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On April 17 2015 10:59 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2015 10:41 prplhz wrote:
i mean it's sort of easy to say "this uncc'd blue probably isn't scum with X" xP cute, prp. read my posts and tell me that i'm not treating breshke's claim with skepticism note the only name not mentioned there besides my own was shining's...gonna keep sniping cause that's bound to help your case ^^
Honestly you thinking that there is a possibility that im not the real vet actually hurts. It is so illogical
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Has Trfel done anything town this Day 3?
His sole "scumhunting" is in direct response to me scumming him. Otherwise he's trying to lead town to talk about claims and lynch's and whatever but when it comes to actual investigative work he comes up with excuses. And that swap off me to Bourneq is a joke.
##Unvote
##Vote: Trfel
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EPT
