[M] (2) KTV Hesperium

Uvantak

Uruguay1381 Posts

September 02 2014 01:49 GMT

Birthday map is Best map! ^^

Hesperium has been a side project for quite some time now, i'm happy i'm finally being able to publish it, even when the map is still rough around the edges (main/nat/third set up) i consider that i would be able to improve it further with the help of the community than in my own at this point.

The map uses the same core layout that Foxtrot Labs, don't be fooled. Even when the core layout is similar the way the map behaves is not!

Map is published in:
[AM],[EU],[KR],[SEA]

This map is Gameheart ready!

Overview:

90º Overview

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[

Old Overviews

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♦ Version 1.3

90º Overview

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♦ Version 1.0

90º Overview

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Information/Analyzer:

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Old analyzer pics
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♦ Version 1.3
[image loading]

♦ Version 1.0
[image loading]

Eye Candy:

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Old pictures:
♦Version 1.3
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♦ Version 1.0
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Small info about the map:

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◙ No Xel'naga Watch Towers.
◙ Two central highgrounds with three interconnected central paths.
◙ Map has a harder third to hold compared to other standardish maps.
◙ Low amount of bases, map has 5 bases per player of which 4 are clearly defined. (Outdated)
◙ Exposed central mineral only gold base. (Outdated)
◙ Reaper path into main + Show Spoiler +

Changelog

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♦Version 1.4
Previous normal fifth bases (8/2) splitted up in two, these new bases are localized at 3/9 and 1/7.
Terrain around new bases has been reworked to fit them.
Destructible diagonal rocks at the end of central plateaus as been removed
Collapsible debris tower has been re-positioned to protect normal fourth bases.
Terrain around main bases has been reworked to fit with the new nearby base.
Central gold base changed from 7 gold minerals only to 4 golden patches and 1 rich vespene geyser.
Several aesthetic reworks.
Pathing reworked.

♦ Version 1.2
Altered the area around the main base ramp to improve the flow into the natural base.
Fixed pathing issues in the middle of the map.
Added Gameheart support.
New Reaper path + Show Spoiler +

♦ Version 1.1
Improved aesthetic work in the cliffs of the map.

♦ Version 1.0
Published.

As i said previously, i'm very open to changes regarding the main/nat/third base set up since that has been very tricky to set up right, and still i'm not comfortable with the current set up.

Here's an early version of the map to showcase my general initial ideas for the map.
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The_Templar

your Country52797 Posts

September 02 2014 01:52 GMT

Hey guys I found the next MotM winner!

Very interesting design this time

Uvantak

Uruguay1381 Posts

September 02 2014 02:13 GMT

Heh, but seriously, between etcetra's map, Neo Sol Dios, Catalyst, lore's and Iezael maps Motm september will be stacked as fuck.

The_Templar

your Country52797 Posts

September 02 2014 02:29 GMT

On September 02 2014 11:13 Uvantak wrote:
Heh, but seriously, between etcetra's map, Neo Sol Dios, Catalyst, lore's and Iezael maps Motm september will be stacked as fuck.

And I might actually make a contender this month! :O
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I bet you fell for that one

sTYleZerG-eX

Mexico473 Posts

September 02 2014 02:47 GMT

Great map!
Love the yellow, great chose, the ramps and bridges look very neat

Uvantak

Uruguay1381 Posts

September 02 2014 21:22 GMT

I tinkered around the main/nat bases a bit, now i'm liking more the flow of the main into the natural, the main2nat distance is still a bit too long for my tastes, but it shouldn't be a too big of an issue with the current set up.

Changelog

♦ Version 1.2
Altered the area around the main base ramp to improve the flow into the natural base.
Fixed pathing issues in the middle of the map.

♦ Version 1.1
Improved aesthetic work in the cliffs of the map.

OP Updated.

IeZaeL

Italy991 Posts

September 02 2014 21:57 GMT

Bro stop please you gonna burn yourself out and you will feel bad when you dont win anymore.stap this. Good job btw

moskonia

Israel1448 Posts

September 03 2014 10:40 GMT

Third is not that hard imo, and is not a problem. Main problem with the start of the game would probably arise from the fact the natural is really far from the main. This problem is also prevalent in Foxtrot, and it makes certain rushes stronger. Not necessarily a bad thing, but a thing people will whine about.

I don't like the fact that the map has only 5 bases + gold. It's fine to do it, but personally I prefer to have the possibility of the game going on as much as possible. The base near the main could easily be split into two, one a bit closer to the nat, and the other much closer to the middle.

Overall the map is beautiful, and even though it is fairly standard, it has its own special features to make for different games.

Uvantak

Uruguay1381 Posts

September 03 2014 17:40 GMT

The main issue for the third base is not that it is exposed per se, it is the way the defender's army positions itself while defending that's awkward, and that's a non-issue, i want it that way so players can't just sit in their bases and move out at 20 min into the game, that's also the reason why there used to be rocks in the nat + Show Spoiler +

but they proved to be too volatile as i feared so i removed them, that takes us to as to why the base that is above/below the main bases looks so awkward now because before it used to be a stronghold in lategame scenarios, now they are very hard to take if taken at all.

What i'm working on atm is exactly what you said, i'm skewing the layout a bit to make that base two instead, it will be interesting to see what comes out of that. Probably the base closer to the main base won't be taken as much since it will be in a awkward place to defend for both players, i'll have to work in that.

Regarding the main2nat distance it is slightly longer than i would like it to be (42 vs 36ish), it is in the long range but not in the dangerously long range, for example belshir vestige had a main2nat distance of 46 and that was perfectly fine given that the distance to the wall off from the main nexus/cc/hatch was short. For Foxtrot i tried to make early game shenanigans stronger by increasing the distance from the main to the natural and from the nat to the nat wall and that way avoid dull macrofests, instead i end up with a map that promotes aggressiveness but not so much that it is the only way to play (Daedalus for example). Until now it has worker wonderfully, and the last IEM where the map was played quite a bit it and it showed what i'm talking about, many people dislike aggressiveness while playing, but they love watching it, sadly the only way maps that where meant to be played at high levels such as foxtrot can access those high levels of play is by getting them in ladder, therefore people whine.

JessicaSc2

Poland123 Posts

September 04 2014 02:44 GMT

#10

Looks like foxtrot.

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

September 04 2014 07:13 GMT

#11

I wish there was a distance geyser or geyser with rocks on it at the gold base so this wasn't so terran favored. Zerg is going to cry on this against any kind of normal macro terran play with that impossible 5th gas base setup. I think you should make that base easier in both directions.

Existor

Russian Federation4295 Posts

September 04 2014 20:08 GMT

#12

Love this alarm-yellow-grey color scheme. Almost feels like a tileset from sc2 expansion

Hexe

United States332 Posts

September 04 2014 20:59 GMT

#13

I think there are too many tiles, it almost looks like a bathhouse, but that is only an aesthetic thought, the design looks pretty fun, great work.

FlaShFTW

United States9935 Posts

September 04 2014 22:19 GMT

#14

an amazing map. i really cant find anything wrong with it. I almost missed the golds, they blend in with the yellowy ground.

Uvantak

Uruguay1381 Posts

September 04 2014 23:51 GMT

#15

@Flash Fuck you, that's not how feedback is supposed to work! >.<

@ETP The rework for the 2/7 bases should help regarding the amount of gas for zerg players, i'm also trying to find a set up that allows zerg players harass the center gold base more, since atm it can be quite the pain, specially with the current amount of golden minerals there they can allow terran to make infinite marines, so it needs to be more harassable for Z while being less so for T (hard stuff).

Other option to the center base could be to make it a vespene only base (rich?), we don't see many of those now days, but with the current issues in the map that could be a solution for the gold bases.

@Existor Glad you like the overall theme ^^, i knew you would!

NewSunshine

United States5938 Posts

September 05 2014 01:44 GMT

#16

This map has the same awkward main-nat relationship as on Foxtrot, and though it might not be broken, it doesn't risk being broken in order to do something, i.e. it doesn't really add anything. Also, the rocks and rock towers don't seem to have much point. The rocks on the ramp are placed such that you'd only want them down in a very late game scenario, when you could destroy them in seconds anyway. The rock tower seems pointless because there are just so many different little paths in that corner of the map, blocking off 1 doesn't really offer much strategically, even more so since it's a 4th base at the earliest. The gold base should probably have gas too.

And since it bears so many similarities to Foxtrot, I feel it's worth mentioning that this map doesn't look like it would play out very differently, either. It has so many similar aspects of terrain, between the awkward natural, the normal-ish 3rd, and the middle high grounds with ramps and a small central path between them. The main difference to me comes from the golds, which aren't that different either. They encourage you to position yourself on the mid high ground in both maps, only this one has no gas. If I had to choose either this or Foxtrot on ladder, I'd go with this map, mostly for aesthetic reasons, but there's not too much between them in my opinion.

Uvantak

Uruguay1381 Posts

September 05 2014 05:42 GMT

#17

Nat: Yes, yes, that's why i'm uncomfortable with the set up of the main/natural/natwall, the way it is set up doesn't really add anything, unlike in Foxtrot where the way the nat is set up makes sense with the rest of the map, in this case, not so much, and that's why i'm asking for advice for that specific area more than the others. One thing that i should note is that even when the nats look big ,they are, nats are nowhere close to the ones in Foxtrot, the natural wall can be done very easily and it is in range of PO/creep. If you have ideas regarding the nat set up i would really like to hear them.

Rocks: The rocks at the tips of the highgrounds/diagonal rocks are vestigial and they where from an earlier stage than the one in the early screenshot i posted where the 2/7bases where closer to the ramp that had rocks in the nat, so these rocks would serve to avoid that base getting swarmed over so easily (it would be taken as an aggressive fourth in the early draft). The collapsible rocks... I have added and removed them so many times now that i have lost count, they are not particularly useful there because as you said there are other paths to get to the third but they are useful and nice to have in the limited circumstances it happens. One of my thoughts regarding these collapsible rocks is to move them here and place a set of 4x4 rocks that only choke up the path instead, but again those are just thoughts atm, i may only add the 4x4 rocks and just remove the collapsible ones.

Gameplay: Actually the biggest change hesperium has compared to foxtrot is the size of the ramps/highground and the lack of sidepaths (the ones where the golds are in Foxtrot), these sidepaths are in grand measure what makes Foxtrot what it is, they in part make playing foxtrot such a hard thing because you must be aware of runbys or hit squads when advancing across the center of the map, here in hesperium players tend to advance to his opponents high ground much much much more than seen in foxtrot, this happens in part because the highgrounds are bigger, idem with the ramps. I tried reinforcing this behavior with the aggressive fourth base that i mentioned earlier, but the path towards the base was far too gimmicky to that way avoid blink stalkers and heavy attacks in the rocks, if players did not want to take the aggressive fourth, so i decided to remove the path and work around it. Players are still aggressive, having strong presence in the enemy high ground, but not that much as i would like it.

In direct regard to the gameplay, Hesperium tends to be more of a tug of war between who controls both high grounds at the same time, and even when that happens there are still strong positions left in the map (high ground corners), where defensive engagements can happen. In the case of Foxtrot it tends to be more of who controls the center/enemy highground while having view of the sidelanes of the map, as you perfectly said.

Now with all this talking, i'm wondering how would it work if i moved the new 2/7 bases to a high ground and connected that high ground to the central ones, similar to Ember Fortress, that would be pretty interesting.

Here showcasing current iteration, lot's of work to be done, specially in the 2/7 bases, the new 3/9 bases can be seen in all their unfinished glory!
+ Show Spoiler +

Uvantak

Uruguay1381 Posts

September 13 2014 21:37 GMT

#18

It's Changelog Time!

♦Version 1.4
Previous normal fifth bases (8/2) splitted up in two, these new bases are localized at 3/9 and 1/7.
Terrain around new bases has been reworked to fit them.
Destructible diagonal rocks at the end of central plateaus as been removed.
Collapsible debris tower has been re-positioned to protect normal fourth bases.
Terrain around main bases has been reworked to fit with the new nearby base.
Central gold base changed from 7 gold minerals only to 4 golden patches and 1 rich vespene geyser.
Several aesthetic reworks.
Pathing reworked.

In OP added the new Eye candy/close ups screenshots.

New Overview: