EPTNormal Mini Mafia LVI - Page 46
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 23 2014 05:36 Snickers wrote: Never said wordiness is what makes a case strong. Was saying that evidence makes a case strong. Also you are assuming town are good in this game. I am thinking town is bad this game. Why is that? The terrible mislynch on 27nb day one. I already explained why this is so. My read on you before my "case" post w/e you want to call it was bad town. Thank you for reassuring my point. Also my read through everyone's filter showed a lot of bad towns. Also i went through his filter and also check multiple times where it was relative to the thread. So i think going through someone's filter is good if you are trying to get an idea but make sure you see where it is relative to the thread. I did this for you but do it yourself if you are self reliant, skeptical or whatever it may be. Also I will not have much time from now til lynch to contribute new things but i will try to contribute to what is being said. Anyway the lynch time for tomorrow is now 9:30 Eastern time USA. So i will be active around 30 minutes before. I have class from 6 to 7:45 for a test then an hour commute home. That you said that 4 lines can't be a good case attests to the fact that you're looking for the wrong things in cases. I also don't think you're in a position to call anyone bad in this game, least of all me. Your case is not a case, but a description of VE's filter that is far too tiresome and presumptuous to be of any use. Perhaps VE is scum. Perhaps he's not. Your case doesn't help me and I doubt it'll help anyone. | ||
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Snickers
United States1575 Posts
Whatever art how about actually respond to what I said instead of just yell over me. And yea I think people will find it useful. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
YKZ is 110% town. The remaining two scum are found among VE, SlOosh and Koshi. However, while I stated that SlOosh was my top scum a few posts ago I have changed my mind. I still do think SlOosh is suspicious but that has more to do with him pushing ALL the wrong wagons and putting up some quite weak reasoning for not voting mderg. He says that he doesn't like the wagon and he keeps saying that mdergs posts are "consistent" but he never explain what is so consistent with his posts. Koshi is still a scum read of mine. Not really going to repeat why I think that though, just look at my filter. My top scum read atm is Ve though. @Artanis and all other non-believers in VEs scumminess: VE sure made a case on mderg D1. But look at his follow-up to that case. Practically non-existant. And look at the vote count at time where VE left the thread: On June 18 2014 08:03 OnceKing wrote: Vote Count - Day 1: 27ninjabunnies (5): YouKnowZhou, Artanis[Xp], mderg, goodkarma, Chezinu YouKnowZhou (1): Release VisceraEyes (2): Lazermonkey, slOosh mderg (2): Snickers, VisceraEyes Currently Not Voting (2): Koshi, 27ninjabunnies Currently 27ninjabunnies is set to be lynched with 5 votes! Day will end in Remember: Voting is mandatory. You can find the spreadsheet to the game here. An mderg lynch is highly unlikely at this point making his vote on mderg not risky at all. Back to why VE is scum though: First off, we have the fact that VE drops case on mderg and puts a vote on him D1. But doesn't push him. And not only does he not push him. He does not try to defend Bunnies at all despite claiming that Bunnies was "supertown". Not only that but also keeps mentioning how he has both YKZ and mderg as his top scum reads yet he only keeps pushing YKZ. Convinient, huh? ##Vote: VE | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 23 2014 06:13 slOosh wrote: How do you find YKZ town? The fact that he was the counterwagon to a scum. Some hours before the lynch yesterday there were alot of possible counter-wagons (both VE and Snickers seemed like possible alternatives midday. Even Koshi had a couple of votes on him at times). Yet he kept pushing mderg as his MAIN scum read. While it is obviously theoritically possible that YKZ decided to buss mderg hard as fuck, I have a very hard time seeing it. Scum busses dudes, sure. But its very rare to see them lead the push against their scum bro especially when there are several possible alternatives. I mean look at the mderg wagon before the YKZ-case. It was non-existant. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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YouKnowZhou
United States262 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 23 2014 06:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Lazer, one interesting tidbit in that is that once we switched to Snickers, BH became complacent about whether Snickers or mderg should be lynched and even resisted switching back to mderg at first. It wasn't a very strong kind of resistance, but resistance nonetheless. Which makes alot of sense given that YKZ is town don't you think? I understand that there is a possibility that YKZ is scum and it was a clear exaggeration to say that YKZ was "110% town!". Yet it does become hard to justify a YKZ scum read. It seems like you and SlOosh are implying that there is a possibilty that YKZ is scum. But I see very little evidence that YKZ actually is scum. And even less that would make him a better alternative than SlOosh, VE or Koshi aka players that have done real scummy stuff. How do you explain why he started pushing the case against mderg so hard when there was many other possible targets? How do you explain that the restistance wasn't bigger for switching back to mderg? Etc. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 23 2014 06:42 YouKnowZhou wrote: Oh come on I was willing to lynch whoever as long as out wasn't me. The guy I resisted lynching was VE EBWOP: This is also a very good point. Explain why YKZ was so reluctant to vote for VE? He had a golden opportunity when they were throwing thrash at each others. This doesn't look like scum that wants to survive. This looks like town that wants to find scum. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On June 23 2014 06:51 Koshi wrote: Wait. Where did I do scummy stuff Lazermonkey? Are you playing dumb? Read my filter. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 23 2014 06:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Alright, that's a fair point. Not willing to lynch ykz anymore. I don't see it, could you explain it to me? | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
There is literally nothing in your filter about me doing scummy things. Are we still on the fact I did nothing on N1? Or D1 when I just replaced into a game? And what did you do? In 2 days your super mega case you promised is "VE voted wrong guys, he scum". | ||
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OnceKing
United States939 Posts
Vote Count - Day 3: YouKnowZhou (1): slOosh Lazermonkey (1): Koshi Koshi (0) - Currently Not Voting (6): Chezinu, VisceraEyes, YouKnowZhou, Snickers, Release, Artanis[Xp] Currently YouKnowZhou is set to be lynched with 1 votes! Day will end in Remember: Voting is mandatory. You can find the spreadsheet to the game here. | ||
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YouKnowZhou
United States262 Posts
I'll have something together on my top scumread, whether that's VE or no, in a couple hours. In the meantime, I'm available for questions and will weigh on anything or anyone that you guys want. I'm going to sit down with D2 wagons and examine flips, then read filters, but I'll be checking recent posts in thread as well. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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YouKnowZhou
United States262 Posts
On June 23 2014 07:17 slOosh wrote: So Lazer, mderg started N1 / D2 with scum reads on VE and Snickers, and that's what he went with. Could you explain your interpretation of this scum strategies? I've been having some trouble articulating my thoughts on this as well. So, when I do association, I try in general to do it the other way. If we look at flipped scum mderg, here's what we see: It's noteworthy that mderg scumreads VE (link) and votes him, and only votes me when it's clear only mderg or I can be lynched D2. That being said, in my opinion the most valuable associative tells are not based on what the flipped mafia did, but what other people did TO the flipped mafia before the flip. As I have mentioned before (link), this is a much more valuable form of information. The dying scum's goal is typically to throw off town and make it difficult to find his allies after he flips. this isn't to say there isn't info to be gained from mderg's filter, but the info to be gained from how other people interacted with him is much greater, in general. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
The only points against BH are how he's gone about Day 1 with tunneling Bunnies and then being antagonizing for a bit throughout the night. On Day 2, after his tunnel target died he went into the day fairly open in terms of who he wanted to lynch and re-evaluated a lot. The fact that he pushed mderg as strongly as he did is a point in his favour too. When there are some people (like myself and you) defending a scumread, there's no reason to throw him under the bus. | ||
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