|
On June 23 2014 07:02 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 06:54 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 23 2014 06:51 Koshi wrote:
Wait. Where did I do scummy stuff Lazermonkey? Are you playing dumb? Read my filter. There is literally nothing in your filter about me doing scummy things. Are we still on the fact I did nothing on N1? Or D1 when I just replaced into a game? And what did you do? In 2 days your super mega case you promised is "VE voted wrong guys, he scum".
I'm done talking to you. You are at best a terrible townie
For everyone else though, you shall have a Koshi-compilation.
-Votes Bunnies without any reasoning.
-Doesn't push scum for 72 hours.
-Says I'm scum but doesn't push me.
Koshi is effectively avoiding all sorts of combat in this game. Even now he just says that I haven't said anything scummy about him. But he is so afraid to call me scum. He attacks my arguments but what does he want? If he wants to kill me (which you would think by looking at his vote) then why is saying all this to me? Is he trying to convince me that I am wrong? If he really thinks that I am scum then there is no need for that, then he knows that I'm making this all up anyway.
Koshi doesn't want to kill scum. He just wants to survive.
|
On June 23 2014 07:17 slOosh wrote:
So Lazer, mderg started N1 / D2 with scum reads on VE and Snickers, and that's what he went with. Could you explain your interpretation of this scum strategies?
I'm not scum so I can obviously just guess here.
I have already explained why I don't think its very unlikely that VE and mderg were scum bros. And why is Snickers even relevant here? He was suspected by many during D1-D2.
|
On June 23 2014 07:27 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 07:17 slOosh wrote:
So Lazer, mderg started N1 / D2 with scum reads on VE and Snickers, and that's what he went with. Could you explain your interpretation of this scum strategies? I've been having some trouble articulating my thoughts on this as well. So, when I do association, I try in general to do it the other way. If we look at flipped scum mderg, here's what we see: It's noteworthy that mderg scumreads VE (link) and votes him, and only votes me when it's clear only mderg or I can be lynched D2. That being said, in my opinion the most valuable associative tells are not based on what the flipped mafia did, but what other people did TO the flipped mafia before the flip. As I have mentioned before (link), this is a much more valuable form of information. The dying scum's goal is typically to throw off town and make it difficult to find his allies after he flips. this isn't to say there isn't info to be gained from mderg's filter, but the info to be gained from how other people interacted with him is much greater, in general.
This is only true when the scum anticipates dying. mderg's vote against VE came early D2.
|
What are the main points against me? Are they here in Artanis' post?
On June 23 2014 05:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 05:03 Snickers wrote:
.... I specifically said what makes him scum.
4 lines? Lol I would say that is a weak case when we are 45 pages into the game.
If you really want four lines here it is.
Ve has multiple times taken credit for things he has not done and has not pushed the thread forward with his own original posts. Also his interaction with mderg seems to be a set up to prove he is town.
If you think wordiness is what makes a case strong or weak you have a lot to learn about this game. Syllogism himself mentioned somehing similar and he's considered possibly the best town player of TL. The idea is that you have to have a very concrete reason for why someone is scum, the rest is just supporting evidence and not quite as important. It's those four lines that you push your case on and elaborate when you have the attention of others. You've mentioned three things: -Taking credit for things he hasn't done -Hasn't pushed the thread forward with his own original posts -His interaction with mderg seems to be a set up to prove he is town. I can now assess whether I agree with that read by going through his filter myself, and I can consider if I think those things make VE scum. I'll do that later.
...because if so, then I'll address them here.
1) I've never taken credit for things I haven't done. Any credit I've tried to take has been for things I've done. If you can point to posts where I'm doing this, then I'll kindly point to the post that shows me doing the thing I'm taking credit for. This point is false.
2) I've pushed the thread forward as much as I can whenever I can. Even though my play can be described as lackadaisical D1, I maintain that I clearly elucidated my intentions that cycle and indeed attempted to get a good lynch with what little posting time I did have. And while it's true that my vote ended up on the not-flipped-scum on D2, during that whole cycle I did nothing to dissuade votes on mderg and indeed pointed out several times that I was absolutely fine with mderg eating a lynch instead of who my vote was on. I've been pushing a pro-town agenda all game, and to say that I haven't pushed the thread forward with my own original posts is false.
3) This is your own personal opinion that is colored by your bias that you think I'm mafia. However because I'm town I know that this point is also indeed false because I set nothing up with mderg to "prove" I'm town.
|
On June 23 2014 07:34 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 07:17 slOosh wrote:
So Lazer, mderg started N1 / D2 with scum reads on VE and Snickers, and that's what he went with. Could you explain your interpretation of this scum strategies? I'm not scum so I can obviously just guess here. I have already explained why I don't think its very unlikely that VE and mderg were scum bros. And why is Snickers even relevant here? He was suspected by many during D1-D2.
It was one directional, it that you explained why VE's actions fit a VE mderg scum team. I'm asking how mderg's actions, namely voting VE, makes sense in a VE mderg scum team.
|
On June 23 2014 07:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 06:58 slOosh wrote:On June 23 2014 06:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Alright, that's a fair point. Not willing to lynch ykz anymore. I don't see it, could you explain it to me? The only points against BH are how he's gone about Day 1 with tunneling Bunnies and then being antagonizing for a bit throughout the night. On Day 2, after his tunnel target died he went into the day fairly open in terms of who he wanted to lynch and re-evaluated a lot. The fact that he pushed mderg as strongly as he did is a point in his favour too. When there are some people (like myself and you) defending a scumread, there's no reason to throw him under the bus.
So I'm swishing this net, let's call it the town net, and if I think someone is town, I let them through the net. Then I pull up the net and see what's inside.
I keep swishing my net and BH is usually in the net.
Let's compare nets?
|
On June 23 2014 07:45 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 07:34 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 23 2014 07:17 slOosh wrote:
So Lazer, mderg started N1 / D2 with scum reads on VE and Snickers, and that's what he went with. Could you explain your interpretation of this scum strategies? I'm not scum so I can obviously just guess here. I have already explained why I don't think its very unlikely that VE and mderg were scum bros. And why is Snickers even relevant here? He was suspected by many during D1-D2. It was one directional, it that you explained why VE's actions fit a VE mderg scum team. I'm asking how mderg's actions, namely voting VE, makes sense in a VE mderg scum team.
I think you are putting way too much emphasize on scum relations. mderg did indeed vote VE. Maybe this was to distance himself from VE. Maybe he just wanted to look like he was contributing. Maybe something else. Mderg didn't push VE for shit though so I really don't see any problems with them being on the same team.
I have seen scum partners do far far wackier things.
Going to bed now. See you tomorrow.
|
On June 23 2014 07:54 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 07:45 slOosh wrote:On June 23 2014 07:34 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 23 2014 07:17 slOosh wrote:
So Lazer, mderg started N1 / D2 with scum reads on VE and Snickers, and that's what he went with. Could you explain your interpretation of this scum strategies? I'm not scum so I can obviously just guess here. I have already explained why I don't think its very unlikely that VE and mderg were scum bros. And why is Snickers even relevant here? He was suspected by many during D1-D2. It was one directional, it that you explained why VE's actions fit a VE mderg scum team. I'm asking how mderg's actions, namely voting VE, makes sense in a VE mderg scum team. I think you are putting way too much emphasize on scum relations. mderg did indeed vote VE. Maybe this was to distance himself from VE. Maybe he just wanted to look like he was contributing. Maybe something else. Mderg didn't push VE for shit though so I really don't see any problems with them being on the same team. I have seen scum partners do far far wackier things. Going to bed now. See you tomorrow.
Or maybe an easier to accept conclusion: VE is town and scum wanted to mislynch :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
|
VE wanna compare nets yet or something?
|
On June 23 2014 06:53 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 06:42 YouKnowZhou wrote:
Oh come on I was willing to lynch whoever as long as out wasn't me. The guy I resisted lynching was VE EBWOP: This is also a very good point. Explain why YKZ was so reluctant to vote for VE? He had a golden opportunity when they were throwing thrash at each others. This doesn't look like scum that wants to survive. This looks like town that wants to find scum.
Because a vote on VE would not have mattered since the only prospective lynch targets were YKZ, snickers, and mderg. His resistance to vote VE is irrelevant because he ultimately needs his vote to be whereever he doesn't die. This is not particularly indicative of YKZ's alignment.
On June 23 2014 07:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 06:58 slOosh wrote:On June 23 2014 06:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Alright, that's a fair point. Not willing to lynch ykz anymore. I don't see it, could you explain it to me? The only points against BH are how he's gone about Day 1 with tunneling Bunnies and then being antagonizing for a bit throughout the night. On Day 2, after his tunnel target died he went into the day fairly open in terms of who he wanted to lynch and re-evaluated a lot. The fact that he pushed mderg as strongly as he did is a point in his favour too. When there are some people (like myself and you) defending a scumread, there's no reason to throw him under the bus.
Mderg was not likely to be lynched at first. However, he made that extremely oppotunisitic (or unopportunistic) vote that was scummy as fuck. At that stage, YKZ's vote was still on Snickers, but I'm pretty sure YKZ is not going to martyr himself to save Mderg, so again, there's plenty of reason to throw Mderg under the bus, if YKZ is mafia, which I still expect him to flip.
---------------------------
Why sloOsh is town and you guys (primarily Lazer) should not suspect him:
(skim along his filter, didn't feel like quoting)
YKZ and 27nb disagree about application of Kenpachi rule. He asks questions in order to settle the dispute. around here
Snickers makes a not-so-good post and SloOsh makes corrections around here
Advises against YKZ tunnel after
Credit to my long post (which I still believe has more merit than what 27nb did all day) where Artanis and Snickers didn't herehere
and later he attacks Artanis and VE until they play better.
Generally day 1: he tries to remove that chaos from town that YKZ created.
Corrects bad play and asks questions that move the town forward
Questions potentially scummy play and responds to changes in behavior.
Overall, very towny.
Pressure more bad play following his day 1 vote here
Questions questionable play herehere
further here
and here (and just to note, this is a slightly more harsh analysis of YKZ's day 2 play than I would have done; I believe that he is legitimately trying to move discussion to draw attention away from his scummy day 1). SloOsh sticks to his guns.
day 2 and day 3 can be categorized by forming his own opinions and asking relevant questions.
-----------------------
On June 23 2014 05:59 Lazermonkey wrote:So after rereading almost all of D2-D3 I have come to the following conclusions. YKZ is 110% town. The remaining two scum are found among VE, SlOosh and Koshi. However, while I stated that SlOosh was my top scum a few posts ago I have changed my mind. I still do think SlOosh is suspicious but that has more to do with him pushing ALL the wrong wagons and putting up some quite weak reasoning for not voting mderg. He says that he doesn't like the wagon and he keeps saying that mdergs posts are "consistent" but he never explain what is so consistent with his posts. Koshi is still a scum read of mine. Not really going to repeat why I think that though, just look at my filter. My top scum read atm is Ve though. @Artanis and all other non-believers in VEs scumminess: VE sure made a case on mderg D1. But look at his follow-up to that case. Practically non-existant. And look at the vote count at time where VE left the thread: Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 08:03 OnceKing wrote:Vote Count - Day 1: 27ninjabunnies (5): YouKnowZhou, Artanis[Xp], mderg, goodkarma, Chezinu YouKnowZhou (1): Release VisceraEyes (2): Lazermonkey, slOosh mderg (2): Snickers, VisceraEyes Currently Not Voting (2): Koshi, 27ninjabunnies
Currently 27ninjabunnies is set to be lynched with 5 votes! Day will end in
Remember: Voting is mandatory. You can find the spreadsheet to the game here.
An mderg lynch is highly unlikely at this point making his vote on mderg not risky at all. Back to why VE is scum though: First off, we have the fact that VE drops case on mderg and puts a vote on him D1. But doesn't push him. And not only does he not push him. He does not try to defend Bunnies at all despite claiming that Bunnies was "supertown". Not only that but also keeps mentioning how he has both YKZ and mderg as his top scum reads yet he only keeps pushing YKZ. Convinient, huh? ##Vote: VE
I find this really weird because I see neither a strong nor even a weak case for sloOsh in your filter. There's this gem On June 23 2014 02:59 Lazermonkey wrote:
SlOosh (reponse to Koshi's "give me your top scumread") but I don't really see where this comes from. In fact since day2, you've been flip-flopping like a bass, a very mafia bass. It seems like SloOsh has just been thrown into that list for the sake of adding an extra town as a suspect. Makes me feel like Lazer is starting to grasp at straws.
Where I stand is that YKZ's day 1 scumplay should not be forgotten. Really seems like I am and have been the only one seriously considering this. His day 2 discussion play does not exonerate his mafia behavior.
Lazer to me is a more serious candidate than VE, and probably snickers too at this stage.
|
We need more drama in this thread.
##Vote VisceraEyes
|
On June 23 2014 08:33 Chezinu wrote:
We need more drama in this thread.
##Vote VisceraEyes
"Excuse me, sir, I've been asked to deliver a package to you, from a Dr. Ama."
*Hands over brown paper box. Serial Number: 451MS. Model Number: 23UC*
Would you please sign your signature here? X: _______________
Thank you!
Have a nice day sir 
|
On June 23 2014 09:16 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 08:33 Chezinu wrote:
We need more drama in this thread.
##Vote VisceraEyes "Excuse me, sir, I've been asked to deliver a package to you, from a Dr. Ama." *Hands over brown paper box. Serial Number: 451MS. Model Number: 23UC* Would you please sign your signature here? X: _______________ Thank you! Have a nice day sir
Hmm, it must be Skorupi by the serial number..
It must be the answer to the ask me anything from earlier...
"Excuse me, sir, I've been asked to deliver a package to you, from a Dr. Ama." *Hands over brown paper box. Serial Number: 451MS. Model Number: 23UC* Would you please sign your signature here? X: _ Chezinu Isunizehc__ Thank you! Have a nice day sir
Tell the Good doctor that he is right about the lazermonkey comments. He broke the Rule and he will know which one. No one calls Chez bad over bunnies.
|
Lol release is still saying he thinks I'm scum even though his "case" mentions nothing except day one.
Lol at whoever called koshi a terrible town. I like when he suggested me release and somebody as scum with the reasoning that scum never vote together. He also did something else terribly but I forget and am on a phone.
Artanis is herby referred to as name dropper by yours truly Mr.Harp.
And somebody said I was a candidate or something for day one. No I was not nobody even voted for me. Also nobody was pushing like 27nb or ykz. Or how I was pushing mderg.
Also ve I pointed out where u took credit for something you did not do. Maybe in an hour I can provide a short post with a clear example since it seems that people that play mafia have short attention spans.
And koshi the other half of why I did not vote for ve is because there is somebody besides himself that is scum. At this point in time I would consolidate on koshi chezinu release ykz and ve. Obviously some I would say he may be scum but she is more likely to be scum etc.
|
._. Man don't really know how to address that cause I'm not sure what it is. I'll check out the other case on VE but chez would you mind explaining your vote a little bit more, just for old time's sake?
|
On June 23 2014 10:50 YouKnowZhou wrote:
._. Man don't really know how to address that cause I'm not sure what it is. I'll check out the other case on VE but chez would you mind explaining your vote a little bit more, just for old time's sake?
A surprise is coming or has it already come? There was a rolecheck last night. Don't you see it? VE and me help draws them out.
If you want an alternative explanation:
Love.
|
On June 23 2014 05:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 05:36 Snickers wrote:On June 23 2014 05:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 23 2014 05:03 Snickers wrote:
.... I specifically said what makes him scum.
4 lines? Lol I would say that is a weak case when we are 45 pages into the game.
If you really want four lines here it is.
Ve has multiple times taken credit for things he has not done and has not pushed the thread forward with his own original posts. Also his interaction with mderg seems to be a set up to prove he is town.
If you think wordiness is what makes a case strong or weak you have a lot to learn about this game. Syllogism himself mentioned somehing similar and he's considered possibly the best town player of TL. The idea is that you have to have a very concrete reason for why someone is scum, the rest is just supporting evidence and not quite as important. It's those four lines that you push your case on and elaborate when you have the attention of others. You've mentioned three things: -Taking credit for things he hasn't done -Hasn't pushed the thread forward with his own original posts -His interaction with mderg seems to be a set up to prove he is town. I can now assess whether I agree with that read by going through his filter myself, and I can consider if I think those things make VE scum. I'll do that later. Never said wordiness is what makes a case strong. Was saying that evidence makes a case strong. Also you are assuming town are good in this game. I am thinking town is bad this game. Why is that? The terrible mislynch on 27nb day one. I already explained why this is so. My read on you before my "case" post w/e you want to call it was bad town. Thank you for reassuring my point. Also my read through everyone's filter showed a lot of bad towns. Also i went through his filter and also check multiple times where it was relative to the thread. So i think going through someone's filter is good if you are trying to get an idea but make sure you see where it is relative to the thread. I did this for you but do it yourself if you are self reliant, skeptical or whatever it may be. Also I will not have much time from now til lynch to contribute new things but i will try to contribute to what is being said. Anyway the lynch time for tomorrow is now 9:30 Eastern time USA. So i will be active around 30 minutes before. I have class from 6 to 7:45 for a test then an hour commute home. That you said that 4 lines can't be a good case attests to the fact that you're looking for the wrong things in cases. I also don't think you're in a position to call anyone bad in this game, least of all me. Your case is not a case, but a description of VE's filter that is fa r too tiresome and presumptuous to be of any use. Perhaps VE is scum. Perhaps he's not. Your case doesn't help me and I doubt it'll help anyone.
I would really like you to explain the first bold part. I think I am in the position to call people bad in this game as long as I add on "if he or she is town.". I was not one of the people who "mislynched" 27nb day one. That would be you(if you are town). The person i voted day one was scum.
So are you going to read my whole "case"? I really hope VE does not fool you by claiming stuff he did first when my posts came before him.
|
It doesn't matter who did it first Snickers. What matters is that I mentioned it at all use your brain man. If I'm mderg's partner and I notice you giving a valid point on him why would I just "parrot" it (from your perspective, I didn't even /see/ your post on him when I made mine, it was just my own observation that happened to coincide with your own) when I could attempt to discredit you or go on you when others were calling you scummy? I realize I seemed to do that later when I said you were scummy to me, but my point is you're raising this whole stink about who said what first when none of that really matters. It's intention you have to look for - why wouldn't I just get onboard with the bunnies mislynch? Why would I HELP you try and lynch my scummate?
Just take a step back dude. That's all I'm asking. I'm town, and if you actually get me lynched you'll see I'm town. But you can avoid lynching me if you just step outside this box you've painted yourself into and see what's going on.
|
slOosh do you still think BH is mafia? Release does. And I think I'm rescinding his pass for his BS last night.
##Vote: YouKnowZhou
|
Release can you comment on Lazer Monkey's posting? I think somebody already did but I would like to hear your thoughts.
Also when you say "guys" whoever else thought that Sloosh was mafia. That seems really suspicious.
Also Release can you comment on the goodkarma kill? Do you even think it has merit?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
