EPTNormal Mini Mafia LVI - Page 40
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Snickers
United States1575 Posts
On June 21 2014 19:02 slOosh wrote: + Show Spoiler + So I'm typing this up around 4:30am ... b/c stupid dota tilting ... so excuse any typos or whatever I'm gonna be slightly lenient on the editing. My day 1 interpretation was wrong. Mderg is scum, so D1 looks different. D1 Lynch: 27ninjabunnies the Vanilla Townie has died to lynch! Final Vote Count - Day 1: 27ninjabunnies (7): YouKnowZhou, Artanis[Xp], mderg, Chezinu, Koshi, slOosh, goodkarma YouKnowZhou (1): Release mderg (4): Snickers, VisceraEyes, 27ninjabunnies, Lazermonkey 27ninjabunnies is lynched with 7 votes! Ok nvm I don't know how to do vote analysis. Crap. UHhh Right things that stick out D1: Snickers calls out mderg first I think, before anyone else. VE follows up. Artanis doesn't like it. Snicker joins, Lazer odesn't like so he backs off, I don't like so I back off. On June 18 2014 04:35 Chezinu wrote: ##UnVote ##Vote: mderg Art it is time to have some fun! Let's do this!!! This post makes lots of sense here in hindsight. I move to VE, Lazer joins me. YKZ comes in and asks a summary of mderg case couple times. On June 18 2014 05:33 Kurumi wrote: Vote Count - Day 1: mderg (3): VisceraEyes, 27ninjabunnies (2): YouKnowZhou, VisceraEyes (2): Lazermonkey, slOosh YouKnowZhou (1): Koshi (1): Artanis[Xp] Release (0): Artanis[Xp] (0): Currently Not Voting (3): goodkarma, Koshi, 27ninjabunnies, Currently mderg is set to be lynched with 3 votes! Day will end in Ok, scum probably starting to feel the heat here? On June 18 2014 05:38 mderg wrote: Also, what the hell is it with Chezinu? He doesn´t even try to make sense. Chezinu rule? Chezinu rule. Artanis not liking these votes, goes on Koshi. I'm still gungho on VE. Stuff stuff stuff. Ultimately on page 18 Artanis town reads mderg and YKZ makes a bigger push on bunnies. I townread mderg here too. I did not call him out first (two people did before me) but I think I was the first person to do a passable analysis on him rather than just say "the above post if filled with scum. therefore my vote is ......" Replying to release here. Yea i still do not have a definition of ban wagon. I think one of the criteria is to not show new scummy points in a player and just vote for them with the ones already out. Never voted for 27nb and voted for mderg after giving new information. Also I was the first person to vote mderg and stay with it all day one. I was in class but i had a 15 minute break to at least read a few posts and change my vote. Yesterday i had work. I was still wanting to vote mderg but i saw no support after day one lynch. So i consolidated my post just like day one. I think maybe you think i am ban wagoning because i consolidate early, but I have been busy around vote times. Guess what, Sunday i have work so it will be like yesterday. Wednesday I have class if this game is still going by then. Also this needs to be said. VE was not telling me not to vote mderg because of how many mislynches he did from "bad town play". That was LazerMonkey. I saw people were thinking he may be scummy and he also understand this. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Snickers
United States1575 Posts
On June 21 2014 18:54 Release wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 21 2014 11:47 Snickers wrote:--snip-- Numbers = his bold statement (ie. 1 2 3 4) 1. Yes i was leaning 27nb but that was before a lot of posted and the people that did posted did not post much. So it was the very start of the game. I think I did not even vote for her. The person i voted for flipped scum today. Also i was saying how terrible it was to vote27nb after i had information from all players. I support the kenpachi rule. It has merit(it has some value) I do not see where release thinks i support further discussion of it. He did not post the post but someone said they were sick of it but i said i still think it should be discussed but i understand how it could be repetitive. I think that release thinks i encouraged further discussion of it by saying how 27nb dismissed it(which she did, koshi is saying this is true but release is denying it i guess make your own decision) And i did say that only two people said what the kenpachi rule was. YKZ explained it in a lot of detail while 27nb did not have a good explanation of it. I wanted someone else to say what it was or if YKZ was talking nonsense. Nobody did so I am still assuming that is was the kenpachi rule is. Second time I am saying this but no one was saying the kenpachi rule was defined wrong they were saying it was being used wrong. Release also posted to where i said the kenpachi rule was useless. That was my first post to a mafia game ever. I had very little knowledge of the game.(For example i knew the term lylo existed and it was a phase as the end of the game but I did not know it meant lynch or lose.) Then i gathered new info that no was refuting so i did see the merit in it. Notice how i comment on YKZ saying the kenpachi rule also works then said it almost always works. His knowledge of it did not change but he said different things. I said different things but my knowledge of it did change. I do not understand where I represented information wrong. Also 27nb could say if YKZ was lynched it would be proven by the end of the day. Also release wants to throw in the scientific method bs. It is simply stated as the kenpachi rule has merit but is not 100% correct. 2. I still stand that i did not make an association with YKZ because of the information I posted after that. I guess you all can decide. I was saying another reason i would want to vote 27nb. That would of been a longshot. 3. I thought was release was scum and I made my own case on his. I did not follow Art's case on him. I thought release did have a good point until he did not even know that 27nb said vt twice before he vote post. I think sloosh but somebody said something like good job now somebody is actually reading the thread. I still believe releases whole post was just the same information we have and then a misleading or terrible new point in his case about vt. So either scum or terrible town. I also do not see how I flip flopped (Does this mean I went from one player to another?) I was slightly leaning 27nb, i never even voted for her. I was full blown for you day one. More than mderg. But i played like a team player and consolidated my post like somebody said that was normal so scum votes could not factor that much. Now these numbers are going to be related to the third bold comments, second spoiler. I never asked 27nb to die. I was saying how she could of said if she died she would show town and the kenpachi rule would be disproved or if YKZ was lynched and shown scum first day. Things like this is where i think release is either a terrible town or scum. He misreads the simplest of things. 1. Where i was proving to release that he missed that 27nb mentions vt twice before vote post. 2. and 3. Me and Release had a different definition so i think we were both right about that. 4. I agree that talking about blue roles is bad.(My information on the subject changed) I realized that it is the same thing we do to find scum. I still never talked about who had which blue role. I was talking about talking about blue roles. I still think this does not have a primary nature to help scum. I guess you could say it could lead someone else to mention a role with a person. 5. This does not matter much now. Still confused about this. So i thought release had a very good post because of his thread changing point of the vt thing but then I realize that and i still think that it was wrong because 27nb. says also or another when referring to vt claim. It looks even worst when release did not know a simple fact about how many times 27nb mentioned vt when the thread was small and it was his first post and he could reread. For some reason release thinks i was following art's case but i was not. I think maybe his case triggered my case. Also the two people that mentioned the timing. One of them was me. 4.Already mentioned blue talk. So far my "harping" w/e the hell that means. It sounds so negative. My "harping" or focusing on slight details was my main read on mderg the scum.(letters correspond with only some of the major harps that helped the game) A. Mderg's comment about hopefully helping tomorrow. I think i was the first person to catch this. B. Mderg's comment on how he said something that he did not actually say. Both of these "harps" were accurately reading scum but release defended Mderg both time. I do not know this was because release thought i was misleading, like a scum should or If he wanted to defend Mderg for w/e reason (scum team or did not think he was scum) I will Harp till the day I die. Cause so far it has led to my 100% lynch record. (no I did not vote for mderg the day he got lynched but I did the first day and I would have continued the second day If I knew(or saw) that people decided to vote him. 3rd spoiler: "Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole." @ " I do not see where release thinks i support further discussion of it" @2 Fantastic as in literally fantasy. Pointless. @3 That is misrep. of info. 27nb did made not even close to the depth or breadth of indictment that I made. ---- @2/3/4 don't see how that was supposed to help us. When 27nb initially said not to speculate whether blue or not, that should have been the last meniton of blue discussion Day 1. It's the bandwagon nature of flipping only after someone else has made accusations. @4 I disagree. In the end, Mderg's voting timing/pattern is what ultimately got him lynched. Those were not particularly indicative. Just because he flipped mafia does not make every single line of his posts indicative of mafia. + Show Spoiler + For example, yesterday, YKZ was helpful, but I still expect him to flip mafia Also, harp: "To talk or write about to an excessive and tedious degree; dwell on." It's just another word. Care to elaborate? See this is where I think Release is either scum or bad town. He is still only pushing me with day one things. All of which I have explained multiple times and he still seems on my ass more than trying to understand. He does not comment on night one or day two in respect to me. He may be such a bad town he just misinterprets anything someone says because of his emotion(bias). This would be like if I continued to push 27nb day one because she was saying she was iffy on me. No I stopped pushing her as soon as somebody else was doing scummy things that were of more value and she started doing townie things. You may have voted for mderg this round but I think your vote still landed on me sometime. Also the people above this post. If you are going to use he or his or w/e try to quote what he said or his point. It would lead to less confusion. Maybe even just say I am talking about 27nb. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
BH this means I'm giving you a pass tomorrow. I don't mean to offend, but PLEASE don't waste 90% of it blathering on about how confirmed town you are and how godly you are and shit. That's annoying and doesn't help anyone find mafia, not even you. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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YouKnowZhou
United States262 Posts
So his vote makes at least a little sense from a town perspective and I do not see a scum motivation for it. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
I agree with Artanis that VE is town from mderg filter. I was a bit too focused on the mderg scumread into voting BH earlier. It would be pretty insane scumplay to buss each other with big cases into moving away from each other right before lynch. For me scummers are: Lazermonkey/Sloosh | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
I have been busy, more busy than I thought I was going to be. I didn't have time to analyze the players in the game good enough and went into stubborn-tunnel-townie-mode. As a result, my read on Mderg was wrong and it is a fair assumption that alot of my other reads are completely wrong also. I will therefore try to spend alot of time to figure shit out. Sadly, I still don't have much time today but both tomorrow and the day after that I will have lots of time to spare. In summary: I sucked yesterday but tomorrow I will try not to suck. @Koshi I did consolidate D2. I did it far to late though but at the time of my second last post before lynch, it weren't obvious that the lynch would be between YKZ and mderg. Even if you don't believe me, how does me not consolidating make me scum...? If you are town (which you may actually be since I suck) then you are probably just butthurt since I was tunneling you so hard. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 21 2014 21:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Lazer, can you explain us how your read on YKZ and mderg evolved and why you voted for YKZ at the end? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 21 2014 17:45 slOosh wrote: So ... I don't know how to feel. My reads feel like the garbage  VE I'll get back to you on the Lazermonkey read. Just wallowing for a while. Right, slept it off, feeling fresh. From what I recall D1, Lazermonkey felt decent. It seemed like he was involved in some discussions and talking, so I waived him as probs town and didn't read too carefully. On a reread, his vote on mderg came right before deadline when it was reasonably clear that bunnies would be lynched. It also isn't clear why he thought mderg is scum - the one time he voted he backed off the next post reasoning why he isn't scum. His D2 play looks far worse and I feel is best summed up by this quote (for which I read strong town on Koshi prior to flip) On June 21 2014 06:03 Koshi wrote: Please be more disconnected about what is happening this day. He makes no effort to understand any of the wagons and instead opts out of discussion, picking on Koshi and soft defending mderg: On June 20 2014 22:56 Lazermonkey wrote: This is also a good point brought up. Everyone that is voting mderg should explain why they vote him very very clearly and why the reason you vote him makes him scum. Explain how that action isn't likely to have come out of a newbie town player also. After all is said and done, his final vote lands on YKZ: On June 21 2014 08:59 Lazermonkey wrote: ... I Mderg is probably a crappy lynch. But there are still too few voters on YKZ... w/e. ##Unvote ##Vote: YKZ "w/e". Votes are flying everywhere, people are scrambling to figure stuff out and "w/e". No reads on YKZ anywhere, still holding onto the mderg town read all the way from D1, no engaging in any discussion of D2. Very good chance of scum. Also, VE, I'd rather a YKZ read than a Snickers read given how D2 went down since I suspect the same kind of resulting observations, but you can do whatever since you've earned it. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 18 2014 02:56 YouKnowZhou wrote: I'm back, and I'm caught up. I see that people are voting mderg. I'll read the cases and weigh in. I'd also like to float the idea of an Oatsmaster lynch. I love the guy like a son, but he's lurking, son. Take a look at his filter so far: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?user=Oatsmaster Now you might say, "YKZ, as far as I can tell, Oats has not in fact posted at all this game. What if he's just afk?" Well, he could just be afk. I'm willing to admit that. But on the other hand, what if he is both AFK and scum? IMO we can't trust Kurumi to modkill him, given Kurumi's track record on modkills that I don't actually know anything about. And even worse, what if Kurumi replaces him? Yes, that would be the worst by far. Can we really trust Oatsmaster? No, we can't. His silence is speaking for him. It is saying "I am possibly a pretty good lynch u guyz" But yeah gonna check out mderg since people seem to have a million boners for lynching him I guess. anyone got questions for me? I'll answer any question as long as it's coupled with a summary of the case on mderg. In the middle of D1, people are considering mderg as a lynch option. YKZ does a soft deflect here, by asking for a summary of the case and at the same time offering up an Oats lurker lynch. It seemed quite strange because of how gungho he was on the bunnies wagon all D1, and the time he wasn't was when people are talking about mderg to say "hey what about this Oats guy?". Another soft deflect here: On June 18 2014 04:58 YouKnowZhou wrote: I still do not understand the mderg case. Can someone explain succinctly for me? Then comes his huge point by point analysis pushing bunnies hard. On D2 he pushes mderg, yes. But when? He pushes him about ~35ish hours into the day. The thread atmosphere up to this point is that a YKZ lynch is very very possible: On June 20 2014 15:16 OnceKing wrote: Vote Count - Day 2: YouKnowZhou (3): Release, slOosh, VisceraEyes VisceraEyes (2): mderg, Chezinu Koshi (1): Lazermonkey Snickers (1): YouKnowZhou mderg (1): Snickers Currently Not Voting (2): Artanis[Xp], Koshi Currently YouKnowZhou is set to be lynched with 3 votes! Day will end in Remember: Voting is mandatory. You can find the spreadsheet to the game here. I suspect given how little thread influence that scum had, that they anticipated one of them getting lynched, so tried to make the best of it by doing some hard busses. That way, at least they salvage some cred and try to make it to the next cycle. I believe the set of posts here reflect the bus mentality: On June 21 2014 04:55 slOosh wrote: Doesn't remember anything about mderg's play or even alignment in Detention. Immediately after says he has scumtells. Total lies. There is a contradiction here, at most a minute apart. I believe it is because he decided his actions would be 'lynch mderg', and he would fill in the reasons as he went along. There's a hiccup here because he is just saying stuff and it lacks the consistency a townie would have when reading someone. In the thick of D2 when votes are flying around, for a moment people consider a Snickers lynch, so he moves off to go on Snickers. It looks like Snickers might actually get lynched here. What happens next? On June 21 2014 08:10 YouKnowZhou wrote: I'll chime in. It makes me like mderg less. I still see him as opportunistic, and despite my thing about "no unflipped associations", I suddenly worry that mderg scum, snickers town and he's setting me up to get MLed tomorrow. mderg scum snickers scum might make sense as well if he's bussing / going for cred; his vote put snickers in the lead and was a "game changer". That said, I am no longer confident that I can lynch him today. People seem to like him. Backtracking. The confidence so present in the D1 wagon on bunnies is suddenly, conveniently, missing D2 on the mderg wagon. Now, his vote is still on Snickers here. Again, inconsistencies. He likes mderg less, and he never liked mderg here, so he must be extra scum read on mderg. He "suddenly" worries that mderg could be scum, which is inconsistent with his earlier posts, but yet doesn't move his vote onto mderg. After it all, here's what he posts. On June 21 2014 09:12 YouKnowZhou wrote: Well, well well. I came in after dinner, made an amazing case, wowed everyone. They followed me and we caught scum. Just as I knew we would  But that's not what happened as the whole point of this post is. He made a case with some inconsistencies, didn't push it with the confidence of D1 bunnies mislynch, moved onto Snickers, then suddenly had qualms when it looked like Snickers lynch was possible and mderg lynch could be avoided, and then only stuck his vote on mderg after it looked inevitable. Yet he tries to frame himself for the one responsible for the lynch, which isn't at all true. YKZ is still scum. | ||
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YouKnowZhou
United States262 Posts
>I say I dont' remember that game >open up filter, find something to meta read to prove that meta read isn't valuable >get criticized for it mfw | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 21 2014 08:20 mderg wrote: I honestly never thought about asking why people are not scumreading him. I don´t think I´ve done something like that in any game so far. I really don´t think someone who has a convincing reason to not scumread someone would just keep quiet about it when a case is made. It´s not that I don´t care but I don´t think there´s any way he´s getting lynched today and he also didn´t post much of value today. So it´s impossible to bring anything new to the table. I also don´t think this is a vote for an easy lynch because it´s still kinda close between Snickers and bh and I think my vote may actually be of relevance. As scum it would probably be easier to just afk for the rest of the day and let the lynch progress, unless bh and me were both scum. Also @ bh: I never voted a townread. I consider this something that he either slipped as momentum came crashing down upon him, or it's something scum planted to incriminate bh to capitalize on it later, which slOosh is doing. It looks so weird to just throw that out there. | ||
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YouKnowZhou
United States262 Posts
Man, that didn't take like any time at all to do. Chill out. | ||
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YouKnowZhou
United States262 Posts
I'd do it again, too, and you should all be glad I would. There's nothing I won't do to win this game. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 22 2014 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: slOosh, what's your current read on Release? Read him town on D1 since his first post as the first careful reading of the bunnies / YKZ interaction. D2 looks great as he was involved in discussions and has mentioned his thoughts on each of the relevant wagons as they developed. | ||
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